Question:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Response:

Hi Scott, First you need to ask yourself about coverage. Do either of these products cover all the areas you’d potentially want to map?  How many CDs will you need to buy to cover all the places you’d want to go? , Doug www.travelbygps.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Response:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

For me, it’s Maptech all the way. Even though you have to buy more CDs to cover an area, you’ll never have to buy another topo map. You can print sections, thumbnails, add notes, trails, waypoints, etc. (And you can include some or all extras in any given view while keeping them all in the file for convenience.) Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — You can’t guard against the arbitrary.    anon.

Response:

Well, coverage isn’t an issue. They can both cover Washington state, and I’m looking at North Cascades. While I can’t say price isn’t an issue, my main concern is ‘killer features’ or ‘killer bugs.’ I just need some voices of experience, someone who’s had the chance to compare the two. – Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First you need to ask yourself about coverage. Do either of these products cover all the areas you’d potentially want to map?  How many CDs will you need to buy to cover all the places you’d want to go? Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the  choice?

Response:

Well, coverage isn’t an issue. They can both cover Washington state, and I’m looking at North Cascades. While I can’t say price isn’t an issue, my main concern is ‘killer features’ or ‘killer bugs.’ I just need some voices of experience, someone who’s had the chance to compare the two.

I have DeLorme’s TopoUSA-Flyfishing edition & the maps are quite mawkish; I’m told they are vector images. Whatever the technical explanation, I find the accuracy level far, far below the most casual hiker/camper’s needs. The Maptech gives full scans of actual USGS topos & offers a number of enlargement ratios; the detail from an average injet printer is nearly up to actual printed topos. These aren’t bug, just limitations. I use the Maptech program to port waypoints to/from my GPS as well as build a personal atlas of my favorite portions of the Maine woods. Even have it on my laptop for field use. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — You can’t guard against the arbitrary.    anon.

Response:

Hokay, so which product is best? Most versatile? Best for planning? Annotating? Printing? I need to choose one of these. What’re the best determinants of the choice? – Scott

Both Maptech and TOPO!/National Geographic start with scans of 7.5 minute USGS maps, and both have different but useful interfaces. It works out to a good resolution for hiking. The regular DeLorme product is vector based, and works out to less detail but more coverage. It tends to be not enough detail for hiking. The different brands bundle states differently, so where you want to cover would make a big difference. Also, they work differently with GPS interfaces, if that is important to you. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

Question:

Peter,     I don’t know the Ross Colorado, but I have several Gunnison and Cimarron reels from Ross, and the drags are anything but wimpy.  The thing I like most about them is that they will adjust from dead zero to enough to hold back a 20 pound salmon heading back to the salt. I’ve also controlled Pike up to 25 pounds with these reels, and I’ve never wanted the drag as tight as it can go. Chas

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody had asked a while back about Gallatin reels but I can’t find a reference to the post anymore.  I was browsing some reel web sites yesterday and I found Gallatin’s.  It turns out that the Gallatin reels shown on the site, are rebadged Marados.  These are Korean made machined and anodized reels that sell for very reasonable prices here. I have a Marado with a click & pawl drag and I’m quite satisfied with it.  They’re robustly made and feature the proven Hardy Marquis type drag, a ball-bearing at the base of the spindle, and a nice wood handle.  I used to own a Ross Colorado CO-0 and a CO-3; I prefer the Marado (Gallatin) to the Ross (wimpy drag on the Ross.) So to whoever asked, goferit.  The Marado (Gallatin) are among the best machined reel deals on the market (assuming the Gallatin prices are as reasonable as the Canadian Marado. – $135.00 CDN for the smallest model.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter,    I don’t know the Ross Colorado, but I have several Gunnison and Cimarron reels from Ross, and the drags are anything but wimpy.  The thing I like most about them is that they will adjust from dead zero to enough to hold back a 20 pound salmon heading back to the salt. I’ve also controlled Pike up to 25 pounds with these reels, and I’ve never wanted the drag as tight as it can go. Chas

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very wimpy spring.  It comes with two springs but even with the heavy one installed, there isn’t half the resistance of a typical Hardy Marquis.  It’s very easy to overspool them if you strip line out too quickly.  They are nicely made but Ross should have copied Hardy instead of the drag design they’ve used. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very

wimpy spring.    A very wimpy spring that doesn’t last very long.  I have a couple of Colorados, shame on me for being fooled twice. One failed me miserably at the Ennis clave, and the local fly shops didn’t have a spare spring for sale. The other failed on an extended backpacking trip, causing the fishing to be a frustrating experience. When they fail, the spring loses it’s "springiness" all of a sudden, and the reel becomes a free spooling birdsnest. If you have a Colorado that hasn’t failed yet, ALWAYS carry the extra spring, because you’ll need it one day.

Response:

The Colorado has only a click & pawl drag with a single pawl and a very wimpy spring.   A very wimpy spring that doesn’t last very long.  I have a couple of Colorados, shame on me for being fooled twice. One failed me miserably at the Ennis clave, and the local fly shops didn’t have a spare spring for sale. The other failed on an extended backpacking trip, causing the fishing to be a frustrating experience. When they fail, the spring loses it’s "springiness" all of a sudden, and the reel becomes a free spooling birdsnest. If you have a Colorado that hasn’t failed yet, ALWAYS carry the extra spring, because you’ll need it one day.

I called the Ross factory about the springs and their rep told me that they had built the Colorado this way to replicate the "traditional" feel of a click-drag reel.  IMHO, if they wanted to do that, they should have stuck to a traditional design. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Somebody had asked a while back about Gallatin reels but I can’t find a reference to the post anymore.  I was browsing some reel web sites yesterday and I found Gallatin’s.  It turns out that the Gallatin reels shown on the site, are rebadged Marados.  These are Korean made machined and anodized reels that sell for very reasonable prices here. I have a Marado with a click & pawl drag and I’m quite satisfied with it.  They’re robustly made and feature the proven Hardy Marquis type drag, a ball-bearing at the base of the spindle, and a nice wood handle.  I used to own a Ross Colorado CO-0 and a CO-3; I prefer the Marado (Gallatin) to the Ross (wimpy drag on the Ross.)   So to whoever asked, goferit.  The Marado (Gallatin) are among the best machined reel deals on the market (assuming the Gallatin prices are as reasonable as the Canadian Marado. – $135.00 CDN for the smallest model.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

See ya there buddy….leaving tomorrow night…will be arriving with DT and SF…I know you check the web on the road ( I think )… ND#1  ( good song )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

Sage doesn’t make a bamboo… I was thinking more along the lines… On the road again I just can’t wait to get on the road again. The life I love is fly fish’n with my friends, And I can’t wait to get on the road again T-14 hours and counting. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

        me, too, zimbo…that is, if i can even *find* raleigh, nc, at this time of the morning.         i plan to plant the regimental flag of the 55th north carolina, army of northern virginia, further north than it has ever been.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Ditto…….T 1 1/2 hours ND#1

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage doesn’t make a bamboo… I was thinking more along the lines… On the road again I just can’t wait to get on the road again. The life I love is fly fish’n with my friends, And I can’t wait to get on the road again T-14 hours and counting. Paul Turn the Sage (with apologies to Bob Seager *and* Metallica): Here I am, On the road again, There I am, Totin’ the Sage, Here I go, Fishing afar again, There I go, Off to Maine. –Steve

Response:

…         i plan to plant the regimental flag of the 55th north carolina, army of northern virginia, further north than it has ever been.

How quaint. Reminds me of another regimental flag of the treasonous states captured by a Minnesota regiment of the Army of the Potomac and recently found in the vaults of the Minnesota Historical Society. Some bunch of history minded Johnnie Rebs from Ole Virginny wanted Minnesota to return their flag. Gov. Jesse Ventura, bless his pointy little head, told ‘em to forget about it, "we took it fair and square" was his official response. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Some bunch of history minded Johnnie Rebs from Ole Virginny wanted Minnesota to return their flag. Gov. Jesse Ventura, bless his pointy little head, told ‘em to forget about it, "we took it fair and square" was his official response.

That’s why I really like Jesse. No mealy-mouthed pussy footing around the issues. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

the issues.

I bet he didn’t even have to take a poll before that response either. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater. Big Dale

Response:

. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater.

No shit. He was a true conservative, the kind that made me a R in my younger days. He had crazy ideas like the government staying out of people’s bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal! — "Number 3: Put education first."  – from Geo. W.’s campaign website, list of his top ten concerns

Response:

. Damn I miss Barry Goldwater. No shit. He was a true conservative, the kind that made me a R in my younger days. He had crazy ideas like the government staying out of people’s bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal!

Don’t forget, towards the end the conservatives talked about kicking him out for his stance on abortion. — Charlie…

Response:

bedrooms, fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. And he was a pretty comitted environmentalist. Oh, no, wait. That’s not the Republican platform. Goldwater must’ve been just another damn liberal!

I prefer to think that he was a liberterian before the tern was invented. He made points with me when he said that he thought Buchanen was a good democrat. Big Dale

Response:

Yeah, though a libertarian won’t do anything to protect the environment (actually, won’t do anything to stop any private citizen from doing anything bad to any other private citizen short of the classic nine common-law felonies). P.S. Free bicentennial brownie button to anyone who can name those nine felonies. Here’s a hint (prepare for nostalgia, you law docs): mr and mrs lamb. Even more extra credit for anyone who remembers the two apple-stealing cases. — "If you want to live like a Republican, vote Democratic" — Harry S. Truman

Response:

Question:

This would imply to me that regulations that were not readily enforceable, would still be followed by the majority of anglers. I would personally like to see "regulations" of this type used to reduce over crowding.

Yep. As long as the "regulations" don’t get too onerous, I think most flyfishers would follow them on an honor system. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been fishing for forty five years. During my childhood and teens, I fished throughout the Midwest and Canada.  For the last 25 years, I’ve lived in Colorado and have fished most of the Rocky Mt.. area. I’ve only been asked to show my fishing license twice in my whole live. I’ve never had an officer ask to see what fish I had kept or see if my fly was barbless in barbless water or ……. Either I’m the luckiest guy in the world or there are extremely few DOW officers around that are enforcing regulations. On the other hand, I’ve only seen a few people fishing or keeping fish in violation of regulations. It seems that our regulations are personally enforced or enforced by the presence of other anglers. My experience is that the vast majority of anglers follow regulations even without the threat of enforcement from the legal system. This would imply to me that regulations that were not readily enforceable, would still be followed by the majority of anglers. I would personally like to see "regulations" of this type used to reduce over crowding.

I’ll concur.  In approx 26 years of fishing I’ve only been checked twice.  Actually, come to think of it, I need to take out some of those years since I was too young to need a license (sheesh, drops that number to 13 years).  Anyway, neither here nor there.  Personally I’ve seen a LOT of anglers who don’t follow regulations, but it’s almost exclusively been on the put-n-take waters and sorry to say it, but it’s almost always been those fishing with bait and filling freezers. I think unenforceable regulations are followed in direct proportion to how much people believe in the rationale behind the regulation and the chances of them getting caught.  Don’t see this being of much use for overcrowding. Just throwing something out here, but has anyone thought about maybe making multiple access points to popular waters?  I’ve never fished ANY moving water where I’ve felt even remotely crowded so I’m just guessing here.  Is there limited access?  Just me, but I can’t see why anyone would purposely fish as close together as some of you seem to imply. Just curious,      - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

Response:

  I would tend to believe that most _fishermen_ would follow the rules. This would imply to me that regulations that were not readily enforceable, would still be followed by the majority of anglers. I would personally like to see "regulations" of this type used to reduce over crowding. Yep. As long as the "regulations" don’t get too onerous, I think most flyfishers would follow them on an honor system.

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

This would imply to me that regulations that were not readily enforceable, would still be followed by the majority of anglers. I would personally like to see "regulations" of this type used to reduce over crowding. Yep. As long as the "regulations" don’t get too onerous, I think most flyfishers would follow them on an honor system.

Well, what’s so onerous about "use some common sense, please?"  You’re too trusting, I fear.  The true sportspersons will act properly, and don’t need laws/regs, but mere suggestions and education, but the bozos will act like bozos, and the laws/regs are needed to keep them from destroying everything, even if through sheer ignorance rather than maliciousness or greed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

While completely nekkid, William Loehman/Susan Schwarz Either I’m the luckiest guy in the world or there are extremely few DOW officers around that are enforcing regulations.

It’s probably the latter. The DOW’s enforcement people are called District Wildlife Managers. Technically, they’re peace officers[1] and are required to be certified as same, but they typically spend less than 30% of their rime on law enforcement. The other 70%-plus is spent on other wildlife management tasks. [1] Under the criminal code, they’re Peace Officers, Level II. That’s the same level as agents of other regulatory agencies like Gaming, Alcohol, Parole, Corrections, etc. That means that they’re not allowed to carry concealed weapons when they’re not on duty. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – District Wildlife Managers. Technically, they’re peace officers[1] and are required to be certified as same, but they typically spend less than 30% of their rime on law enforcement. The other 70%-plus is spent on other wildlife management tasks. [1] Under the criminal code, they’re Peace Officers, Level II. That’s the same level as agents of other regulatory agencies like Gaming, Alcohol, Parole, Corrections, etc. That means that they’re not allowed to carry concealed weapons when they’re not on duty. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

You must live in a strange part of Texas…Maybe we should have not given so much of the state away. Around here they are called game wardens and even the Texas Rangers are jealous of the power of a game warden. There is not a law enforcement officer in the state with more power. Unfortunately, very few game theives spend many years in prison even when caught. Their fines are seldom over the cost of a house, and few even have their pickups consficated as they should be. Big Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You must live in a strange part of Texas…

I’m not in any part of Texas.  I couldn’t have been that bad in my previous life. Maybe we should have not given so much of the state away. Around here they are called game wardens and even the Texas Rangers are jealous of the power of a game warden. There is not a law enforcement officer in the state with more power.

They’ve got a fair bit of power here. More than I’ve got, and I’m a real live Peace Officer, Level I just like the city cops and CSP and CBI. The only difference is that I make less, can’t enter private property without PC, warrant, or exigency, and I get to wear my gun home at night if I feel like it. Unfortunately, very few game theives spend many years in prison even when caught. Their fines are seldom over the cost of a house, and few even have their pickups consficated as they should be.

It gets worse. There was a waterfowl-poaching case that the USFWS took a few years ago. The plea agreement was for forfeiture of all firearms and vehicles used, plus five digits in fines and a few months in prison. Even the defense bought it. Then the judge knocked the fines down to three digits, wiped out half of the forfeitures, and suspended the sentence. It’s good to know that damage to our common resources is taken seriously by the Federal district judges. (This was a judge in TX, but I’m not sure which district, etc.) "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

Response:

–                                                       -dnc- ET1 wrote …  Personally I’ve seen a LOT of anglers who don’t follow regulations, but it’s almost exclusively been on the put-n-take waters and sorry to say it, but it’s almost always been those fishing with bait and filling freezers.

That’s consistent with what I’ve seen over the years too.  Most poaching I’ve witnessed was in areas where people already had the legal right to take a hefty number of fish. Hmmm.  I wonder how the poached dead fish statistics compare to number of released fish killed? I think unenforceable regulations are followed in direct proportion to how much people believe in the rationale behind the regulation and the chances of them getting caught.  Don’t see this being of much use for overcrowding. Just throwing something out here, but has anyone thought about maybe making multiple access points to popular waters?  I’ve never fished ANY moving water where I’ve felt even remotely crowded so I’m just guessing here.  Is there limited access?  Just me, but I can’t see why anyone would purposely fish as close together as some of you seem to imply.

I don’t like the idea of increasing access.  While I think all public lands should be open to everyone, remoteness still has a value in protecting some resources from overuse.

Response:

and vehicles used, plus five digits in fines and a few months in prison. Even the defense bought it. Then the judge knocked the fines down to three digits, wiped out half of the forfeitures, and suspended the sentence.

Sounds like the plea agreement was on the right track, except I think there must have been a typo as it came out a few months in prison when it should have been a few years. Then the judge went and screwed it up. Big Dale

Response:

Just throwing something out here, but has anyone thought about maybe making multiple access points to popular waters?  I’ve never fished ANY moving water where I’ve felt even remotely crowded so I’m just guessing here.  Is there limited access?  Just me, but I can’t see why anyone would purposely fish as close together as some of you seem to imply. I don’t like the idea of increasing access.  While I think all public lands should be open to everyone, remoteness still has a value in protecting some resources from overuse.

I’m mostly just curious.  I’ve never fished moving water where I felt crowded.  If there are more people fishing than I felt comfortable with, I just start walking.  Just for my own understanding I’d like to know why the horror stories exist.  If some people don’t mind fishing in a crowd that’s fine by me, but I’ve never had trouble finding a remote spot within a reasonable walking distance. Later,      - Ken — ET1 – Evil Twin #1 "Guilt replaced the fun" – ROFF-Tim "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

Response:

I’m mostly just curious.  I’ve never fished moving water where I felt crowded.  If there are more people fishing than I felt comfortable with, I just start walking.  Just for my own understanding I’d like to know why the horror stories exist.  If some people don’t mind fishing in a crowd that’s fine by me, but I’ve never had trouble finding a remote spot within a reasonable walking distance.

Here in Wisconsin there are very few places left more than a mile from the nearest road.  The vast majority of the land here is considerably less.  Each fishing season northern Illinois (which includes Chicago for the geographically challenged) and eastern Minnesota (Minneapolis, St Paul) disgorge their teeming millions upon our fair waters.. Lots of other folks come from all over the place.    I dare say there are few places in America that get pounded as hard as our fair state.  Naturally, this results in some very crowded conditions in some places.  But despite all this, I have never had any trouble finding a place to fish in solitude when I wanted to.  I think the trouble some people have with this one Ken is that they haven’t mastered the rules for finding out of the way spots, and so: 1.  Find out where everybody goes. 2.  Go someplace else.                                      

Response:

Let’s look at it another way.. is there anything inherently wrong with unenforceable regulations?

Inherently wrong? Of course there is. If there is not a reasonable degree of enforcement the laws will be ignored. You are talking about a law that would require an observer (or team of observers) to watch you fish all day and count your catch, as opposed to a policeman seeing you run a stop sign. — Charlie…

Response:

George Adams wrote Count me among those who are likely to puke if one more unenforcable, or unenforced, law is passed.

I propose an law whereby it’s illegal to puke. <g —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I do agree that most people do behave responsibly.. but for those who want to be responsible C&R’ers, what do they have to go on?  Shouldn’t there be some guidelines at least?

I don’t have a problem with published guidelines, but passing laws that you know can’t be enforced simply to establish those guidelines is worse than just wrong. — Charlie…

Response:

Let’s look at it another way.. is there anything inherently wrong with unenforceable regulations? One parallel is traffic laws.. so why do traffic laws work?  The potential of catching stop sign runners is so extremely low, but most people stop.  So then.. is it the threat of enforcement, or is it because we all realize it would be chaos if we didn’t follow the rules? I’ve said this before, but aside from the most popular fishing spots, take limits are also pretty unenforceable.  There are just too few fish & game officers to make the threat of being caught real.  Yet, it seems most people do follow the rules. Take limits are enforceable regulations, he is talking about implementing unenforceable ones. — Charlie…

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

I do agree that most people do behave responsibly.. but for those who want to be responsible C&R’ers, what do they have to go on?  Shouldn’t there be some guidelines at least? -Mark But I think we’ve already shown that we cannot be trusted to self-police. That’s why we need take limits. Who is this we and where have you shown yourselves to be irresponsible with respect to fishing? BTW, count me among the people who believe that regulations do not need to be enforceable to be respected by the majority. The majority who don’t behave responsibly unless they are told to? — Charlie…

– Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad mp3 songs: http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

I was fishing a week ago and was checked twice.  When the fist warden came through, he checked my licence out and we talked for a minute or two about the area and what DNR is doing.  He then walked over to where two other fisherman were fishing about 50-60 yards away.  It didn’t take much time for the warden to pull out his pad and start writing something on a piece of paper.  The warden handed the paper to the two fisherman and then the fisherman left.  These two fisherman were sitting there the entire time that the warden and I were talking and could have easily seen the game warden and left, but they didn’t.  I don’t know what makes some people so stupid. A third group of people moved in fairly close to where I was throwing the fly.  In fact, they were too close for my liking.  I was just about ready walkaway when the  second game warden came through.  The warden checked out my licence and we had a short talk about the area.  He then went to the other group of people.  I was close enough to hear the warden ask for their licence and then tell them, "you need a licence to fish."  Obviously, they didn’t have a licence.  The warden gave them a warning and walked away.  He didn’t even ask them to stop fishing. When I walked back to my car at the end of the day, passing the original spot, these fisherman were still fishing.  It was hard for me to understand why the warden wouldn’t make these creeps stop fishing. Earlier in the year, I saw a group of people collecting, I will not say fishing, fish with a cast net. They had several buckets with about 40 fish in them.  I was so upset, I went to a park ranger and they did nothing.  This was a put-and-take area.  I then called the DNR and they set out to check on the poachers.  The poachers were gone when they arrived.  DNR told me that they could nothing unless the offenders could be caught.  They also told me that the park ranger should have stopped and cited the poachers.  They also told me that this problem with the park rangers in not uncommon in this area.  The park rangers want to concentrate on people management not wildlife management.  I’m still upset about that situation. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

The majority who don’t behave responsibly unless they are told to? — Charlie… I personally have no idea what an appropriate take limit should be for specific fish in a specific area.  I don’t think that the average fisherman does either.  I need to know what the limit is in order to behave responsibly.  Making it a law gives the authorities a means of punishing those that are grossly irresponsible.

Take limits are enforceable regulations, he is talking about implementing unenforceable ones. — Charlie…

Response:

 ……. Either I’m the luckiest guy in the world or there are extremely few DOW officers around that are enforcing regulations.

I have only been checked once in my (considerably shorter) life, but I think that it is safe to say that it is cheaper to fish without a license all the time and pay the fines when you get checked than to buy a license every year. The time I got checked I was following all fishing regulations, but I had to hide my beer in a hurry, since I was only 16 at the time. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

The majority who don’t behave responsibly unless they are told to? — Charlie…

I personally have no idea what an appropriate take limit should be for specific fish in a specific area.  I don’t think that the average fisherman does either.  I need to know what the limit is in order to behave responsibly.  Making it a law gives the authorities a means of punishing those that are grossly irresponsible. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

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BTW, count me among the people who believe that regulations do not need to be enforceable to be respected by the majority.

Count me among those who are likely to puke if one more unenforcable, or unenforced, law is passed. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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But I think we’ve already shown that we cannot be trusted to self-police. That’s why we need take limits.

Who is this we and where have you shown yourselves to be irresponsible with respect to fishing? BTW, count me among the people who believe that regulations do not need to be enforceable to be respected by the majority.

The majority who don’t behave responsibly unless they are told to? — Charlie…

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But I think we’ve already shown that we cannot be trusted to self-police. That’s why we need take limits. BTW, count me among the people who believe that regulations do not need to be enforceable to be respected by the majority. Well, what’s so onerous about "use some common sense, please?"  You’re too trusting, I fear.  The true sportspersons will act properly, and don’t need laws/regs, but mere suggestions and education, but the bozos will act like bozos, and the laws/regs are needed to keep them from destroying everything, even if through sheer ignorance rather than maliciousness or greed. —

–  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

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Naturally, this results in some very crowded conditions in some places.  But despite all this, I have never had any trouble finding a place to fish in solitude when I wanted to.  I think the trouble some people have with this one Ken is that they haven’t mastered the rules for finding out of the way spots, and so: 1.  Find out where everybody goes. 2.  Go someplace else.                                      

That’s not the problem I have with over crowding. Especially on streams and rivers, I just think that the extreme over crowding that happens in our "famous" waters, is very disrespectful and harmful to the resource and shouldn’t be allowed. I’m no different than you. I find places that others don’t fish. I fished for Wisconsin stream trout for the first time last Fall and found a place where I didn’t come across any other anglers in full day of fishing. Very nice! Willi

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I’ve been fishing for forty five years. During my childhood and teens, I fished throughout the Midwest and Canada.  For the last 25 years, I’ve lived in Colorado and have fished most of the Rocky Mt.. area. I’ve only been asked to show my fishing license twice in my whole live. I’ve never had an officer ask to see what fish I had kept or see if my fly was barbless in barbless water or ……. Either I’m the luckiest guy in the world or there are extremely few DOW officers around that are enforcing regulations. On the other hand, I’ve only seen a few people fishing or keeping fish in violation of regulations. It seems that our regulations are personally enforced or enforced by the presence of other anglers. My experience is that the vast majority of anglers follow regulations even without the threat of enforcement from the legal system. This would imply to me that regulations that were not readily enforceable, would still be followed by the majority of anglers. I would personally like to see "regulations" of this type used to reduce over crowding. Willi

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Question:

<snip Ha ha!  Another one hooked!  Congratulations Tim.  I’ve had some success with walleyes using heavily weighted wooly buggers.  Olive or white.  Give em a try some time.

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Way back when I asked for tips on fly rodding for walleye. Well I did no good! : ) But the other day I was fishing for smallies with black clousers, when I got what I thought was a snagged twig. When I got it in it was a 20" Walleye. In 20 minutes I caught three more. So happy I was. Did the dance of joy all night long. Never thought I would get so excited about catching a few walleyes. Well just wanted to share. Tim Apple

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Never thought I would get so excited about catching a few walleyes. Well just wanted to share.

Cool, and thanks for sharing. — Charlie…

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… Well just wanted to share.

I don’t suppose you’d want to share "where" ? Just kidding, sounds like fun, Tim. Thanks. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 1 – Tar Heels 0

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Question:

The historic Antrim Lodge, located in Roscoe, New York is falling into a state of disrepair.  We recently relocated to Roscoe from New Jersey, and are renovating our own 100-year old victorian, but we hate to see the last of the Roscoe hotels go to seed. Now, we’re not into the real estate business and this is not a for sale ad since we have absolutely no connection to this place other than it being two blocks away from our home.  What we’re wondering is whether there exists any individual(s) interested in looking at this place to see what can be done with it.  We’d be happy to coordinate a meeting, perhaps on opening day or the weekend afterward…If no one single individual can handle it, then maybe some form of limited partnership. Of course, the highest and best use for this place would be a flyfishing club, restaurant and possible fishing-related shops.  But’s it’s been vacant for three years, and needs a lot of work.  Paint peeling off inside and out, mechanicals need to be brought up to code, etc., and redesign of rooms…. Originally and currently set up for 23 "fisherman" rooms, most of which have no common or shared bathroom.  Two stone fireplaces, one on the lower level in the "great room", and one on the main floor near the entrance where a new restaurant should be located.  Large "modern" stainless steel kitchen, but wasting away thru non-use.  Parking for about 26 cars, large mature trees on 1-1/2 acre lot. Lot’s of fishing greats have stayed at, drank at, and told their Beaverkill stories at the Antrim.  Built in the late 19th century and originally known as Central House, the Antrim now has good highway visibility, easy access off the Southern Tier thruway system, and within walking distance to the Beaverkill River.  There are two flyfishing specialty shops in Roscoe, Donegal’s and the Beaverkill Angler (an Orvis shop). Roscoe has some resident local nature artists, and the area has recently seen an influx of New York City expats. The Antrim has been for sale for the past couple years, and the asking price has been about $250,000.  I believe a renovation could add another $150-250,000 so it’s not a little project.  Those old rooms need to probably be combined to make about ten larger rooms with private bath…maybe a group of new owners could each own a room or develop a time share.  But let’s consider doing -something- with this place. The previous restaurant operation at the Antrim was run by a fine Greek gentleman, but the Greek food turned off the locals and visiting fishermen alike.  We need to see traditional American sportsman dining there amidst Adirondack style decor.   If you have some interest, and a measure of potential resource to back it up, please let us know, and we’ll see if we can coordinate a meeting.  The annual Catskill Flyfishing Center’s dinner and auction is also coming up on the Calendar scheduled for the weekend after opening day in case your planning on coming up this way. Email us if your interested…let’s see what we can make happen. Cheers, Marie Wisco

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The historic Antrim Lodge, located in Roscoe, New York is falling into a state of disrepair.  <snip

I wish I had 1/2 million I had no other use for!  I remember my first reading on flyfishing mentioning the Antrim – a favorite of many of the great personalities of Fly Fishing. Zern, Gingrich, etc.  It must have been wonderful. It is more than a shame that this grand old place has fallen on such hard times. Todays realities are that such places are often doomed to decay.  The investment required is substantial, and the return not likely to be great. It would be wonderful if some Very Rich Person, came along and made it a lifes work.  It would be a better world knowing places like the Antrim live and that one day I might belly to the bar there. </chaz — "resistance is futile"

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Question:

I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

Hi Guy, I don’t know if there is a best fly or not rather they may very well be favorite fly. For me my favorite steelhead fly is the green butt skunk. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

 The Popsicle’s  are  great fly patterns . This may sound weird but I like to throw a Purple Muddler (wt). I have not fished B.C. , but I would not be surprised if most patterns that work here in Cal./Oregan/Washington would produce in BC . I’m affraid that FF’ing for SH in my neck of the woods is kaput. We are  in a major flood stage and will be blown out for weeks, months. Oh well… back to the bench….   Harry

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The best fly is the one that the fish are taking at that particular day, time, and body of water.  Fishing conditions can change instantly during winter fishing season on the West Coast.  You will need a variety of patterns from bright and flashy to dark and subdued.  Steelhead fishing is a challenging prospect.   Good Luck Jeff

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I am starting to stealhead fish this winter and need to know what the best fly would be.  I fish in the B.C. area.

Trey Combs, in his book "Steelhead Fishing and Flies" gives3 lists of flies for BC streams. Karl Mausser’s list (for the Kispiox, Babine, Bulkley and Morice Rivers, all Skeena tributaries) is:         1. Kispiox Special         2. Sack Fly (a Burlap with an orange hackle tail)         3. Black Beauty         4. Skykomish Sunrise         5. McLeod Ugly Bucktail         6. Royal Coachman A Morice and Bulkley guide lists these as favorites:         1. Van Luven         2. Wooly Worm         3. Burlap         4. Stillaguamish Sunrise         5. Orange Optic         7. Skykomish Sunrise A Northwest fly seller gives this list as their top ten over a 37 year period:         1. Skunk         2. Royal Coachman Bucktail         3. Umpqua Special         4. Kalama Special         5. Skykomish Sunrise         6. Fall Favorite         7. Golden Demon         8. Spruce         9. Thor         10. Silver Hilton A couple of other good performing flies are Purple Peril and Green Butted Skunk. Tight Lines, -Burton

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The best fly of course is the one that is in the river on the end of your line. For a start, check out either of Trey Combs books ( eg. Steelhead Flyfishing and Flys) from your local library. My favorite fly is a Brad’s Brat (bright fly) or a Purple Peril (dark). Bart Phillips

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Question:

I went fishing for Stripers last Friday on the Sacramento River between Decker Island and Rio Vista.  I didn’t have a boat, so I fished off of the banks using blood worms.  I had a few bites, but didn’t catch any fish. Does anyone have experience fishing the Delta for Stripers from shore? What baits, presentations, locations, tides do you fish, and has fishing been good off of the banks recently?  I drove quite a bit on Friday, and only saw a handful of fisherman fishing from the shores. Thanks, KenP

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It’s really frustrating to fish stripers in the river with a boat, much less off the shore. You’d be better of in the Amercian river. There are more "hole" where the fish stop and concentrate. Some of the fly fishing shop in Sac are good resources to tell you where to go, as fly fishing for stripers is becomming really popular.

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Question:

     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.      We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.      We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.        We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.      I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.      We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                      Thanks for the information                                       Dave Wahl

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     We are 4 fishing buddies from Colorado who want to try fishing a new area.  The Deschutes and McKenzie Rivers were recomended to us by a fellow Fly fisherman from California.     We have fished Wyoming, Idaho and Montana in the last several years and would like to try fishing the Northwest.  We are mainly interested in trout although I have never caught a Steelhead.  Most of us are experienced nymph anglers.     We normally hire a guide in any new area we fish to sort of get the lay of the land and then fish on our own.       We will be in the area for about a week and will probably fly into whatever city is recomended, rent a car and drive to an area to fish.  We need rent hotel/motel rooms for each of us near where we are going to fish.     I know when anglers come to Denver from out of town, I will usually take them to the famous South Platte River and then, because they are not local, I will take them to some of my more "secret" areas since they will probably not have the opportunity to spread the word around.     We sure would like to fish some of the more unknown areas and will find it easy to keep the areas a secret since we are 1500 miles away.                                     Thanks for the information                                      Dave Wahl

The Crooked River.    L.H.

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Question:

I will be in Vail, CO. 8/3 thru 8/7.  Anyone know of any good FF area’s near Vail.  I will have a rental, so getting around won’t be a problem.  Any pattern’s, techniques, or good guides in the area would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince

I know of two excellent spots. I was there last fall hunting. One is the Blue River from Silverthorne to Green Mountain Res. The level is controlled, and there is a fair amount of access along the stream. The other spot is the Colorado River around the Troublesome Creek area east of Kremmling. I think that would be maybe an hour or so drive (north) from Vail. If you get a chance to fish either place, let me know how you made out. I would appreciate it. I’m going back out next fall for a couple weeks to bowhunt and fly fish. I plan to fish both these areas.   Good Luck !  :-) Jack III ******I feel more like I do now than I did a little while ago******

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I will be in Vail, CO. 8/3 thru 8/7.  Anyone know of any good FF area’s near Vail.  I will have a rental, so getting around won’t be a problem.  Any pattern’s, techniques, or good guides in the area would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince

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