Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw wrote… Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia. Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes….. And is the resulting goop any good as berley?  Or wouldn’t it just be better to set the body out in the creek as crab bait, then when it’s full, pull ‘em off and set it out again? ‘certified crab bait’? Oh Lordy, stop it will you! Tony Deacon

…and just WHERE is it you thought GINK came from???

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No – that  for foot and mouth Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes…..

– Charles Reaves

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Is that allowed – I though chumming with mammalian products was a no-no Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia.

– Charles Reaves

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rw wrote… Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia.

Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes….. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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rw wrote… Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia. Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes…..

And is the resulting goop any good as berley?  Or wouldn’t it just be better to set the body out in the creek as crab bait, then when it’s full, pull ‘em off and set it out again? — NightStalker Email addy is nightstalker87 at hot(you know).com

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rw wrote… Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia. Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes….. And is the resulting goop any good as berley?  Or wouldn’t it just be better to set the body out in the creek as crab bait, then when it’s full, pull ‘em off and set it out again?

‘certified crab bait’? Oh Lordy, stop it will you! Tony Deacon

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‘certified crab bait’? Oh Lordy, stop it will you!

I love reading stuff like this.  Shows me that we haven’t lost touch with the larger sphere of angling activities.  I’ve run into some people who love to fly fish but they just don’t seem to be interested in fishing in general. Mu

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rw wrote… Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia. Or stack them several deep, cram them into one tomb, cremate them and mix their ashes…..

You’re not insulting our good friends in Narlens, are you? Tim

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Sorry if I am not eager to enlist the help of the Tuscon Funeral Group for help with my fly fishing gear……

‘Certified After Care Providers’ Is that really what you Americans call undertakers? Absolutely priceless! ROFLMFAO Tony Deacon

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Sorry if I am not eager to enlist the help of the Tuscon Funeral Group for help with my fly fishing gear…… ‘Certified After Care Providers’ Is that really what you Americans call undertakers? Absolutely priceless! ROFLMFAO Tony Deacon

Basically, we dump ‘em in some pond in Georgia. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

 You may have seen racks that hold fly rods before, but have you ever seen  one that holds reels and stores spare spools as well? We doubt it.  Here it  is– a unique Rack that will hold six (up to 9 ft) fly rods and six reels.  This wooden rack is hand crafted and framed in cedar.  Rod sections rest  comfortably and safely on felt.  Reels hang in the center and in the base  there’s a drawer for spare spools.  Obviously, it was designed by a fly  fisherman for fly fishermen.  Visit our site and see a rod and reel rack made by a fisherman for fishermen  www.t-f-g.com

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Tim Gerds wrote…  Visit our site and see a rod and reel rack made by a fisherman for fishermen  www.t-f-g.com

Sorry if I am not eager to enlist the help of the Tuscon Funeral Group for help with my fly fishing gear…… — Warren (who loves spammers who are too stupid to even spam correctly) change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Question:

An 85′ wire rope was stretched from a tent like structure, just above trees, over a building, under uninsulated power lines, across the main street and

snip Wire ropes shorten markedly once the sun goes down and temperature drops.

under uninsulated power lines. Great light show.

Response:

As posted some weeks ago my aero club has been building a scale model Mitchell Bomber for a Centenary of Federation play. We learnt a lot along the way, and it performed perfectly on the first night (apart from the director giving the launch signal too early). An 85′ wire rope was stretched from a tent like structure, just above trees, over a building, under uninsulated power lines, across the main street and down to 2′ above ground connected to a truck or hiab crane, just behind the audience, which drove forward to tension the line.  Before each performance (about 3pm at 25C) the plane was dragged up the wire with fishing line and secured in place.  Twice the line broke and once the plane got tangled in trees.  The play happened at night, about 8C, with the line very tight.  It packed a whollup at my end.  First night was an over capacity audience with about 60 unable to get seats and so milling around the wire, cast were also endlessly walking back & forth under our wire.  We rigged up hessian to stop people walking into the wire (a losing battle) which also helped slow the plane. Fears that the plane would try to fly (it is a fully functioning flying model) and unhook itself from the wire rope were unfounded.  I built the wings, but the guy who connected them to the fuse put them in upside down (flat side up) – frightening thing is, he maintains our plane – then couldn’t understand why the engine nacelles wouldn’t fit.  So if it did fly the lift was as per an inverted aircraft. What we learnt: Start early, very early, it takes longer than you think Spray enamel won’t stick to doped fabric & eats foam Decide on the colour scheme first up Keep drunk spectators away (we lost the tail fin & broke a wing) Be prepared for everything to be different each rehearsal & performance and essential equipment to be locked in the SES shed to which no one still in town has a key. Wire ropes shorten markedly once the sun goes down and temperature drops. Don’t let the President, the LAME or the refueller any where near it (your’s might be OK) Don’t take any notice of the guys who turn up once and tell you how it should be done. Listen to the quiet unassuming guy who turns up every night with his tool box and van full of useful gear. Never volunteer unless you have a team of reliable volunteers. Would we do it again?  Maybe. PS due to lack of work in my town I am going away till mid September and most likely unable to get internet access.  My ISP is still experiencing hardware problems.  I cannot get the internet or send mail and appear to only get a fraction of inwards mail.  If you have sent me something and I have not replied, my apologies, I will post a new address when I finish signing on with big pond.

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Question:

Our California rivers are full of lead and mercury.  Fortunately it settles to the bedrock below the gravel and hopefully does little damage.  My friend looks for gold in our Mother Load Rivers while I fish for trout.  The lead is from bullets, the mercury was left by the 49ers.  Quite often the mercury is attached to gold. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sadly (for those of us who like to use it) real lead foil is fast becoming a thing of the past on wine bottles.  Lead has caused the same level of concern in this arena as it has elsewhere.  More and more wineries are changing over to other materials.  Plastic, tin, aluminum, and perhaps a few other materials are becoming more and more common.

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I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good.

I can’t think of the brand right now but there is one line of mass produced flies that seems decent.  It comes in a yellow package and has somebody’s name on it but the logo/graphics look nearly identical to the old Fred Arbogast lure company logo.  I think it might be Hank Roberts or something like that.  Not sure about the matierals but the tying is better than the others. Most of the flies I have seen at K-Mart however are fairly crappy. Mu

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I would agree actually Tony, especially as regards the Fulling Mill flies, and there are a couple of others which are not bad.  I have seen a great deal of "Bubble packaged" stuff however, especially in big stores, which was absolutely awful. These things are often sold by the big chains, and not in tackle shops etc.  These were what I meant. It certainly was not my intention to brand all these producers as "sweat shops".  My apologies if I caused such an impression. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good. I’m certain that the wages paid are pretty low by our standards, but to brand all third world manufacture as ’sweat shops’ is probably both unfair and inaccurate. The flies that are marketed here by ‘Fulling Mill Flies’ are (in many cases) quite excellent. They are tied in Kenya and Barry Unwin’s people are very good on product development and quality control. It doesn’t particularly matter that an African woman is never going to go fly fishing. If she’s nimble-fingered enough to tie good quality flies and it’s paying her a decent wage (by local standards), what’s the problem? I have often looked at some of Fulling Mill’s standard patterns (Muddlers, for example) and thought to myself: ‘Why the hell do I bother tying my own?’

I’m not familiar with Fulling Mill’s products Tony.   Judging from what I have seen of the flies sold in the big discount stores like K-Mart they aren’t handling these products.  None of the stuff I’ve seen sold in such places was made by anyone who shows much evidence of being nimble fingered or of being familiar with the patterns upon which their wares are allegedly modeled.  In these products it is not unusual to see that the heads are already unraveling in the package.  Feathers are mismatched, badly frayed, poorly dyed, and askew. This is merely the beginning of what could be a very long list of sins.  And all of this is apparent just looking through the packaging. I think the best way for David to assess these flies is to buy a single package and then take them to a fly shop for comparison.  Even a rank novice should easily be able to see and evaluate the differences.

Response:

Thanks for the info. I thought that by crimping the end of the solder, the rosin would be sealed inside, but it’s too thick to use anyway. Great idea about the lead foil though. I’m not much of a drinker, and had no idea that wrapping was made of lead.  I went ahead and bought a few packs of cheap flies, just for casting practice, for when I finally get my rod and reel.

Sadly (for those of us who like to use it) real lead foil is fast becoming a thing of the past on wine bottles.  Lead has caused the same level of concern in this arena as it has elsewhere.  More and more wineries are changing over to other materials.  Plastic, tin, aluminum, and perhaps a few other materials are becoming more and more common.

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Re side question. Not sure but solder is possible contaminant which should not be used for weighting flies. Would probably be better if you bought the proper stuff from shop just to be safe unless someone can say for sure solder is safe. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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Re side question. Not sure but solder is possible contaminant which should not be used for weighting flies. Would probably be better if you bought the proper stuff from shop just to be safe unless someone can say for sure solder is safe.

Solder was traditionally made from various proportions of lead and tin. You can still get this stuff but it is being replaced by lead free solder.  The new alloys are being distributed precisely because of concerns over lead poisoning.  Presumably they are safer….at least until we hear otherwise.  The old stuff, since it contains lead, is to be considered somewhat dangerous, but obviously no more so than the lead wire and weights which are still being sold and widely used.  The lead foil wrappers from wine bottles are very useful but equally dangerous. Aside from the lead question, solder has another problem.  Cored solder is hollow and filled with either rosin or acid, either of which works as a flux.  This helps to keep work surfaces from oxidizing under heat, thus ensuring that the melted solder will stick.  Both rosin and acids are corrosive and toxic.  Prolonged or intense exposure to either is something of a health hazard, not to mention the damage they can do to fly tying materials.  Given enough time, the acid from acid core solder will completely disintegrate steel hooks.  You can imagine what it might do to more fragile materials.

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Thanks for the info. I thought that by crimping the end of the solder, the rosin would be sealed inside, but it’s too thick to use anyway. Great idea about the lead foil though. I’m not much of a drinker, and had no idea that wrapping was made of lead.  I went ahead and bought a few packs of cheap flies, just for casting practice, for when I finally get my rod and reel.

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I do not know the specific flies you mention, but most of the chains carry flies made in Africa and other places using almost sweatshop labour Some of these are useable, many more  are not. Materials are substituted, patterns are freely bastardised, the quality is often poor,

(etc., snipped) I’m afraid I have to disagree with Mike and Wolfgang here. These days, many of the flies tied in third world countries are pretty good. I’m certain that the wages paid are pretty low by our standards, but to brand all third world manufacture as ’sweat shops’ is probably both unfair and inaccurate. The flies that are marketed here by ‘Fulling Mill Flies’ are (in many cases) quite excellent. They are tied in Kenya and Barry Unwin’s people are very good on product development and quality control. It doesn’t particularly matter that an African woman is never going to go fly fishing. If she’s nimble-fingered enough to tie good quality flies and it’s paying her a decent wage (by local standards), what’s the problem? I have often looked at some of Fulling Mill’s standard patterns (Muddlers, for example) and thought to myself: ‘Why the hell do I bother tying my own?’ Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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The local K-Mart is being renovated into a Super K-Mart, and all their Blue Fox and Scientific Angler flies are marked down to about 50 cents per fly. Are these flies any good from the standpoint of (a) being well made and durable, or, (b) being useful "models" to emulate when tying my own? Side question: I have some resin core solder, .062" diameter. is this about the right size for making weighted nymphs?

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The local K-Mart is being renovated into a Super K-Mart, and all their Blue Fox and Scientific Angler flies are marked down to about 50 cents per fly. Are these flies any good from the standpoint of (a) being well made and durable, or, (b) being useful "models" to emulate when tying my own? Side question: I have some resin core solder, .062" diameter. is this about the right size for making weighted nymphs?

a. no b. no c. no Any flies you can buy at K-mart are crap.  These flies are all made in places where they have never been used for fly fishing; Kenya, Sri Lanka, etc., and the people making them have almost certainly never had the leisure to use anything like them.  I’ve bought some over the years just to see how well they were made (despite the fact that a glance through the packaging spoke volumes).  They are invariably shit.  Many of them bear only a superficial resemblance to well known patterns whether or not they actually have a name of some sort printed on the package and many of them do not. .062" is a sixteenth of an inch.  MUCH too large for most fly tying applications.  Might be marginally useful for shaping and weighting huge woolly buggers or something similar but the vast majority of patterns in whatever size would never call for anything that large.  Besides, either rosin or acid core solder is a very poor choice because of the effects the flux will have on all the other materials, none of which you are likely to find beneficial.

Response:

I do not know the specific flies you mention, but most of the chains carry flies made in Africa and other places using almost sweatshop labour Some of these are useable, many more  are not. Materials are substituted, patterns are freely bastardised, the quality is often poor, the hooks are not good etc etc.  Best to avoid such flies. The "bubble packaged" ones seem especially awful. The packaging probably costs a lot more than the content. Doubtless five hundred incensed anglers will now write and tell me that they use nothing else, and that the flies are basically perfect. Nevertheless, experience suggests you should avoid such flies unless you know the exact source and reputation of the manufacturer. The solder you mention is quite a bit too thick really. Also you do not know what effect the chemicals in the flux may have on your materials, and the resin core makes it considerably lighter than lead wire.  Most fly-dressing supply houses supply suitable lead wire on bobbins. Save the lead sheet from your whisky and wine bottle tops, this can be cut into strips and used to wrap bodies etc. If you use lead to weight flies, then give it a coat of lacquer, cement, etc, before forming the body, as otherwise the lead will "bleed" through the body and ruin  the fly. For weighting some flies you can use pieces of "paper clips". Cut these to length using side cutters, and then place them parallel to the hook shank on both sides, top and bottom as well if you like, and whip them on.  This makes nicely formed bodies for some nymphs, and guarantees the exact same weight every time. This also works well with copper wire, even thicker stuff which you can not wrap normally. You can also form the lead foil from bottles etc using a set of old wing cutters. This makes really good consistent nymph bodies with the right shape for many nymphs in various sizes. Use one "lead wing" whipped to the top of the hook, or one under one over and then whipped etc.  The weight is also very consistent on these flies, as the exact same amount of lead is used every time, assuming the foil is of the same thickness. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Question:

I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

Response:

I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one. wayno

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You can post short private ads for personal gear on here, and on other groups. You can also post on e-bay to auction the stuff. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a Penn 4-ARG and St croix 12 wt rod to sell. Where can I post it?

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    on ebay.  or, if you are lucky, on a fly fishing newsgroup, if you can find one.

Or as Forty might say, "ebay ukyoufay." –Steve

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I think you just did. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

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Question:

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

Jeff Baker: <<i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still Why?  Shocked that they honored their warranty?  Or, shocked that they did not send it back to the factory?  There is much bitching and moaning about Orvis on these pages, but there products are superior and their warranties unprecendented.   Dave LaCourse

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Hi Jeff, I’ve alway found the folks at Orvis to provide good service. Glad things turned out for you. Take care & … tight lines – Al Beatty Whiting Farms – Hoffman Hackle Al Beatty2

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Ditto. I use all brands of stuff and like Orvis just fine. Sometimes guys think buying stuff from Orvis is being a yuppie, meanwhile they buy gear that is more expensive from other manufacturers and think they aren’t being snobs because it doesn’t say Orvis. Viva anything that works including ORVIS, ORVIS !!

Response:

You should have asked for a Trident.

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

Response:

I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar

i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

    The Orvis dealers I’ve come in contact with are to a man, pretty good people. Being of sound mind and unsound bank account, most items they sell are regretably beyond my means. I do have two reels which I ordered along with the approprate line and backing. When I received them they were all set up ready to go. The gripes I see on this NG are not about quality or service but about the clothing etc. that are in the Orvis shops. Personally "who gives a rats patooty". If that is what it takes to make a shop fiscally sound, it’s better than a "closed" sign and I can walk on by. When ever I am in an area not close to home I search out an Orvis dealer and buy the recomended fly of the day( usually in threes). I’ve yet to be disapointed.                                                              John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can vouch for the Boston store. My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. They said no to both, but steered me to the rack and suggested I pick out a new pair. I assumed it was a version of bait and switch (no pun intended), but was shocked to discover they meant – pick out a new pair. My father was a life long Orvis customer, and I will be too. John Tesar i snapped the tip off my pm . i brought it back to orvis of boston and they gave me another right then and there.i was shocked still

_____ I believe those waders came with a lifetime guarantee.  Yet, you are well taken care of and you should stick with those companies that make you satisfied and happy.  If the Boston Store does that for you, amen. I’d stick with them myself if I used Orvis equipment, under your circumstances.   Mr. G.

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My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little.

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em.

Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

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My father died and my brothers and I divided his flyfishing equipment. I took the waders in to the Boston store while traveling to see if they still had the suspenders, which were missing, and to see if the waders could be altered a little. Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

_____ Tim?  Consider yourself hugged.  Wonderful reply! Mr. G.

Response:

Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^)

______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

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Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) /dave

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 Please, bury me in my waders…I’ll be a needin’ ‘em. Our pleasure. Is next Tuesday good for you? ;^) ______ As a gentleman, that was uncalled for. Mr. G.

Aw, c’mon Georgie! It was clearly denoted as a rib – even you should be able to pick up on that ;^) << Hey, if that ‘hole diden’t pick up on the first ), the 2d one won’t do any good.  He probably thinks you’re going to steal one of his ribs.  After all, "denoted" is more than one syllable. Your post was perfect.  Only thing I didn’t like about it was that *you* posted it, not me. <g

Response:

Dave LaCourse,I was just surprised of the fact that Orvis exchanged the rod when I brought it in.I’ve been using Orvis products since 1965,fishing mostly with their cane.That exchange just made me feel good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy,never thinking how we’re getting fucked like we or I do these days, J Baker.

Response:

good, sort of bringing me back to the good old days,when we thought of a company making products for us to enjoy, I know the feeling, friend.  They have exchanged a number of things for me, no argument, no explanation on my part.  I don’t like it – they exchange it.  I will continue to do business with them. I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  It’s all in fun (I hope).  Orvis HAS gone the way of a yuppie-provider-store, but they still make fine fishin’ stuff and I will always be a customer. Dave LaCourse

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I have been teased by friends on this NG about wearing Orvis driving shoes and driving gloves and hat, and a doggy bed for my good dawg Charlie.  

And I _do_ like the bed<g. I too like Orvis products. Some of their stuff is fluff, but I have had excellent luck with their fishing gear and have some of their luggage that is probably close to 20yrs old, has been around the world (literally) a couple of times, and is still in great shape. I sure wouldn’t hesitate to buy something just because it had their logo on it, not would I buy something simply because it did. FWIW. — Charlie…

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John Tesar: Great story, John.  You will see folks on this ng bitch ‘n moan about Orvis, but their stuff is good (if pricey) and they do stand behind their product. Dave LaCourse

Hi All, Orvis, L.L.Bean, Patagonia and a few others have the reputation of taking care of their customers. Actually, if given the chance, many manufacturers will do something for you if a product does not last or doesn’t work out somehow. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

Does anyone know how good the fishing is NJ. Also where would be some of the better spots. I won’t be back there for another 10 months. I have taken it up here in Alaska and I don’t know what I would if I had to give up this new passion of mine. — Ralph Muro TwinTech "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson

Response:

i live in nj and can tell you that there are some really hot spots,then i read your little proclamation about guns. having been shot by some idiot in the past i think i’ll keep the honey hole to myself, and keep you gun toting kooks away.

Response:

Hey Mickey, I leave near NJ, in Philly, and Have a house in Browns Mills NJ.. What are some of the Hot spots. Please send some E-Mail. -Steve — I think a good product would be "Baby Duck Hat". It’s a fake baby duck, which you strap on top of your head. Then you go swimming underwater until you find a mommy duck and her babies, and you join them. Then, all of a sudden, you stand up out of the water and roar like Godzilla. Man, those ducks really take off! Also, Baby Duck Hat is good for parties. -Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i live in nj and can tell you that there are some really hot spots,then i read your little proclamation about guns. having been shot by some idiot in the past i think i’ll keep the honey hole to myself, and keep you gun toting kooks away.

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Question:

Greetings fellow fur floggers, I have sent the controls to create this newsgroup.  If I have done it right, this should start appearing on newsservers shortly.  Please post a fishing image to help legitimize the ng.   We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.   Pray for the new group…(Or as they say in The Ghosts in the Darkness) Prey for the new group. TimW

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Greetings fellow fur floggers, We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.  

Given the sex-site spammers that have overrun all the .bin groups I bet you’re not far off with that.  The group appeared here today, so I’ll be looking for posts. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can’t get the group.  My ISP swears I have access to all the groups. Anyone have any ideas? — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

I intend to visit Italy in mid May, probably the Tuscany region.  I’m intrested in fly fishing opportunities there, especially those that might lead to a story for US magazines.  Any assistance…would be much appreciated. SMN

SMN—Two years ago I met Claudio Tosti, director/instructor at Scuola Italiana Pesca A Mosca (SIM).  This flyfishing school is located, believe it or not, some where in central Italy.  I understand some Italian, but speak very little;  we had a difficult time communicating. Claudio neither spoke nor understood English.   If you decide on making contact with Claudio, best to call Gino Laghi of the Golden Gate Anglers & Casting Club, 415.753.8013.  He met Claudio at the same time and he can be your interpreter.  I know he would love to assist in this venture. Claudio’s mailing address is:                                Via Lombardi, 3                                64021 Giulianova (TE)                                Telephone: 085-8001152 Ciao!    CyberFly

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I intend to visit Italy in mid May, probably the Tuscany region.  I’m intrested in fly fishing opportunities there, especially those that might lead to a story for US magazines.  Any assistance…would be much appreciated. SMN

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Question:

Apart from all the other advantages, hand tied leaders offer two distinct advantages for me.         1. I seem to present the fly better with a hand tied leader         2. One of cost, they are distinctly cheaper.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

One word of caution about both braided shooting line and level flyline for use in the surf. These lines can pick up particles of sand and abrade both your guides and your fly rod.  It depends upon the nature of the beach, but under the right conditions you can ruin a fly rod in one outing. However under some circumstances these shooting lines can work great. Ian Walker

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1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

I had the same problem with weighted clousers of that size and still have the bumps on the back of my head to prove it! Someone replied to my post on this matter and suggested that I try using a shorter leader while someone else replied suggesting that I use a uniform diameter mono leader that is relatively stiff. I tried combining the suggestions by attaching a three foot section of 12#test Berkely Big Game to the end of my Fenwick 9wt WF intermediate sinking line. The fly moved better in the air during false casts, but the mono just couldn’t turn over the fly for a straight presentation. Not that the presentation is essential for the fish, but it helps to keep the line from fouling even before I start stripping. This worked a bit better when I dropped the fly size down to a #2 clouser, but it didn’t solve my original problem. Longer mono sections proved worse in practice and shorter tapered leaders didn’t do it either. I’m still stumped. I recently purchased a 12wt for fishing rougher surf on the south shore of Long Island and was sort of hoping that the line weight increase would help in this situation (I’ll be casting some heavy epoxy flys too). Too bad…. 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket.

Are you using the collapsable variety or the dishpan with/without mono fingers? I use the collapsable and thought that was the problem. Then I fished with another salty flyrodder who had the dishpan (without mono fingers) and he had the same problem…. HH&TL,       Jose

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood. From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe!

I am sorry that I did not state this exception in my initial post.  I definitely agree that when the diameters are quite different, I have a difficult time getting a blood knot to hold.  I generally use 3 wraps on each side of the knot, but I will use possibly 5 wraps when tying different size diameters together.  I should possibly consider the surgeons knot in this instance. I am happy to hear someone else who doesn’t think the blood knot is hard to tie.  It is simple: a couple wraps and through, a couple wraps and through, wet, tighten, snip, fish. question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference?

I have tried, but I really have not seen any difference.  It might help prevent the blood knot pulling out in the circumstances outlined above. Enough rambling on my part.  I like the often-chastised blood knot. -tgades

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I would like to cast a vote for tying your own leaders.  True, knotless leaders are easy and do not pick up moss and debris but a hand-tied leader will improve your presentation with drys if you use a hard/soft leader/tippet system.  FlyFisherman has an article in the July edition that talks about it some.  I’ve tied my own leaders for about a year and a half and think they’re worth the effort.

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I would go with the handtied leader.  I use a permanent butt section   attached to my flyline with a nail knot and with a perfection loop in the   end.  I put a perfection loop in the end of my leaders and use a loop to   loop connection.  The flyfish listserv has had extensive discussion   recently concerning failures of braided leader connections at the point   of attachment to the flyline. —   Dept. of Chemistry Centre College 600 W. Walnut St. Danville, KY 40422 phone (606)238-5416

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Conrad,         What do I have to do to subscribe to this flyfish listserv? Jim

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" If you want, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

And now a question to bcurry and other ff surfcasters. I was surfcasting last night in Santa Cruz and I had a bitch throwing a 1/0 deceiver. My rodbuilder flipped me a reel to try. This reel (in this order) backing, clear mono, and a 30′ shooting head had a six foot mono leader that I practiced for 2 weeks on grass. All was well. I have a 9′graphite 12 wght rod and the loaner reel/shooting head is about the same. Added to the mono "leader" I added 12′ 5 lb test leader and my deceiver It was foul city. In the surf, with a 30 foot shooting head 2 questions come to mind: 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

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1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. Though I’ve been using borrowed gear, I’m going to buy my own rod/reel soon. Unless I hear lots of negative reports about it (I’ve heard tons of good reports), I’m goin to go with the Orvis Clearwater Henry’s Fork outfit (8.5ft/5wt), since about $150-175 is my limit. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)? Also, I’m wondering about waders, but I’ve posted that separately. Thanks Steven Jarvis

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Use the braided leader/tippet.  I do and like them a lot.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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I like to use knotless tapered leaders. maybe because I’m lazy, but there may be some very slight advantages with them. There are no knots to create drag, and the material has no "memory" (the hand tied t.l.’s i bought at the Yellowstone Angler took forever to straighten out). Also, I noticed that the braided sections can sometimes soak enough water to make them ride just under the surface of the water, which can be annoying. However, these factors are so slight that if your traditional tendencies say tie them yourself then that’s what you should do. Let us know if you have ?’s about size, lengths etc.

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Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

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My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Hi, I’d recommend the traditionalist choice, which happens to be the cheapest, too. Learning to tie your own leaders isn’t hard, and works really well, because you can change at will, when the occasion calls for it. Also, you’ll find that some species just don’t have pre-made leaders to buy (i.e. pickerel, which need a 10-15# test, but with a short 6" 30# opr more section to avoid "bite-offs". If you wantr, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have personally found the answer to be the blood. -tgades

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: Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself : from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in : about 30 seconds. : It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to : be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT : I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the : surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood : knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would : be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly : tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe! question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Question:

Hi there! Im a beginner and im wondering what line size rod to buy. I am from oregon and will do most of my fishing for trout- although I would like to eventually go for steelhead and salmon. I really dont want to have to buy a separate rod. Is a 7 too small for larger fish would an 8 scare off most trout? If I were only fishing for trout a 6 would be ideal. Can I buy say an 8 rod and fish with 6 line? or would the loss of controll be too much ? Any response would be much appreciated!

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Buying a rod and using undersized line defeats the loading ability of the rod. I mean loading, the tip section of the rod actually bends and creates the loop (very important) that the rod causes in the line. Confusing? Yes. I would not buy a 8 and use a 6 line nor buy a 6 and use a 8 line. That overloads the tip. I would prefer a 5 or 6 for trout. Haven’t had experience with large steelhead but would imagine you could land one but would really wear it out! Sadly, there really isn’t just one rod that does it all. You might look for a good used rod at a local dealer or flyfishing club. I’d pay more for the one I use most. Say spring for a good Orvis Green Mountain or Rocky Mountain (2 piece rods around $200) and look for a cheaper rod if I were going to fish steel head only 1 or 2 times a year.

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