Question:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john

  Joe Bruce from the Anglers Edge here in Baltimore (the man writes very good books and makes videos on catching smallies with a fly rod), suggests a White Wulff.  I can see where this would work.  For all parts of a Wulff fly, use white materials.   They seem to be perfect. A size 14 or 16 as the White Miller mayfly on the mid-Atlantic rivers (as opposed to the White Miller caddis) is a perfect size 15.    We will be at the last gasps of the white miller hatch on the 19- 20th of August.  The bass may still hit on a white pattern because of conditioning.  Or it may be because a fish will hit whatever pisses him off.  Its worth a try.    BTW, Frank Church and I will be on site from the evening of Friday the 18th.  If anyone wants to drop in, there will be a cold one available.                            Frank Reid                              F Before you buy.

Response:

John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

I used to think he was a mind reader and was answering posts before you made them.  :-) Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

Frank Sr.    If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.            Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Er, ah, maybe you ought to bring ‘tater chips instead of buffalo chips, no offense. :-/ Frank Sr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank Sr.   If your grill doesn’t work, don’t worry, I’ve got some buffalo chips saved from Nebraska as a backup.  Cook them steaks up real nice.  Keeps the skeeters down too.           Frank Jr. Before you buy.

Response:

Damn Wayne, if you keep this up I don’t know if I can wait until 18 Aug to do battle with those fishies.  Wuz gonna bring my pontoon boat but it is not designed for river floating (some of the frame hangs very close to the water line under my seat) this could make for some interesting results if I get hung up on a rock in rapids, etc.  I could visualize starting the float as a tenor and coming in to camp as a soprano. :-] Hey, I can live with just wade-fishing.  BTW, Frank Jr. and I have decided steaks would be nice so I am bringing my portable gas grill…FWIW. Frank (one hung low) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, bring that kayak and get ready for some fun.  If the river levels hold you will be in for a real treat.

Response:

Well Pugs, my son is a Navy Chaplain, if you need ‘counseling’ to overcome your grief at missing the mini-clave, I’m sure he could help you out.  Only problem is you’d have to fly in to Naples for said counseling.  Think you could handle that?  ;-)) Frank (boy, do I need counseling!)  Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

My OE screen says the post was at 8:40 pm.  Lower right hand clock is dead on.  Could it be the posting news server in another time zone?  I’ve noticed this with other posters.

Your posts are always off (in time anyway<g) for me too, the one I am replying to now says it was posted at 11:38am, but it’s only 8:37am here (EDT). FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Allen, As Executive Director of a Military History Museum I can appreciate your quandry.  One of our Board Members works with the Joint Chiefs.  Perhaps I can arrange to have the island moved off the coast of Virginia and you can fly out of NAS.  There is a small airfield in Spotsylvania County, Shannon Field.  You can get a Harrier in there without any problem.  Also a large grassy field at the campground store.  A SeaKing will fit nicely. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Wayne, The offer is certainly much appreciated. In fact we have to hop through NAS Oceana fuel pits on the way to Key West then to Roosey. The USNA wants a fly-by for the plebes taking their oath and I just know they’ll hold us at low alt for a while resulting in not enough fuel to one leg it to Key Weird. If we get to PR and the island has moved. I’ll immediatly re-file back to Norfolk and look for it off the coast! Of course, near VA rum won’t be 2.95 a gallon so sacrifies will have to be made by the clavsters if I show up. Cheers, Allen Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Don’t want him anywhere near me with that noisy old EA-6b.  I don’t even want to think about what those trons spittin’ out of his antenna would do to a highly conductive graphite rod.  Then again, he does have a couple of munitions available that would make getting that fish out of the heavy sunken brush a bit easier.      Frank Reid Before you buy.

Response:

Wayne, Please stop! Your continued posting of how good the fishing is going to be at the Clave makes me want to drop my orders to PR in the shredder.  Aren’t you aware of the consequences? Why without this trip the people of Vieques Island will have to go without the sound of freedom over their heads or ordnance impacting the dirt at all hours of the night. I guess I can always hope for a hurricane to head that way to cancel the whole thing then I’ll be clave bound! Cheers, Allen Epps Excuse at the ready: "But Hon I have to go to the clave, you expected me to be on det for two weeks anyway" Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

[snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

simple……tiime flies when yur having fun….john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] For crying out loud, Wayne, what’s it going to take to get you to correctly set your computer’s clock? Or do I need to contact your ISP? Seriously, your post (the one I’m responding to) shows up on my server as having been sent at 11:40pm. I’m responding at 10:05pm, so I’m guessing somewhere between your PC and mine there’s a machine that is off by 2 hours. Your posts have been that way for several months. What gives? –Steve (and my those smallies do sound fun)

Response:

Really getting fixated on this one…..anxious to try out some of my woolies in other waters…..got a link for white miller flies?…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dianna and I tripped down to the Rappahannock today and visited the campground.  Pictures will be available tomorrow sometime.  I talked with one of the campground owners and with a friend who guides the Rappahannock. Seems a 5 lb. smallie came from the rapids just above the campground, caught by one of the happy campers.  The guide was fishing this past week and had a little 10 inch smallie on.  Before he could strip it in a BIG smallie rose from the bottom of the pool and nailed it!  SIX POUNDS!!!  After a fine day of fishing we were on the way off the river this afternoon.  I handed my wife my 6 wt. with the lead-eyed hellgrammite and I picked up the Connor 4 wt. with the White Miller dry.  I tried a couple of fish then hit a Damsel fly in mid-cast with the Miller.  The Damsel fluttered to the water about 4 feet from me and twitched a couple of times, WHAM!!  The bass nearly caused an enviromental castrophe.  I dropped the Miller just beyond the splash and gave a couple of twitches, WHAM!!! again.  This time with hook set.  Nice little smallie. #12 White Millers with an occasional twitch and black Murray’s Lead-eyed Hellgrammite workrd wonders today.  Saw Millers all day and a hatch underway just after noon for about 30 minutes.  The top of the river got real busy. A good time was had by all. — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Question:

        without regard to where you are staying, in or out of cabins, i need your mailing addresses, asap.  i know some of you have sent same earlier, but i am lazy, and need them organized in a single source.  in return you will receive an incredibly informative package concerning clave geography and itinerary, prepared at a nominal charge by the vast and efficient staff of little wayno’s outfitters (we never close).         thanks         for the firm         wayno

Response:

        without regard to where you are staying, in or out of cabins, i need your mailing addresses, asap.  i know some of you have sent same earlier, but i am lazy, and need them organized in a single source.  in return you will receive an incredibly informative package concerning clave geography and itinerary, prepared at a nominal charge by the vast and efficient staff of little wayno’s outfitters (we never close).         thanks         for the firm         wayno

       http://www.rodbuilder.com  ______  Mr. George Gehrke / President                 Gehrke’s Fly Fishing Products                 Snake River – Hell’s Canyon                 Asotin, WA 99402                 509-243-4100 or 5500                 FAX-243-4644 Your place or mine?

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Wayno wrote :i need your mailing addresses, asap. Big Dale Dale Wilkinson 6533 Caddo Court Plano, Texas 75023-2902

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Question:

This topic may have been discussed here before, but… Like most people, I spot dead animals by the roads all the time. Squirrels are a dime a dozen, and just this morning I saw a fox lying frozen in the ditch. Seems like this is a lot of great fly tying fur going to waste! (Most carcasses end up at a local rendering plant around here.) Especially that fox…I hate the idea of letting all that beautiful fur go to waste. (I’m sure the fox would approve of his fur being used for flies rather than as pig chow.)

Scott, I’ll second the notion of Mike O’Connor about Eric Leiser’s book. Also his site does a great job of explaining to a novice how to prepare roadkill. I wrote Eric Leiser years ago (early 80s) about using American Oppossum (commonly known as ‘possums) in flies. I got back a nice note (which I kept!) saying he had seen some very nice streamers using ‘possum. He said you could dye it colors if need be. He compared it to a "soft but still lustrous polar bear." Given the number of ‘possums that I see dead on the road I think I will have to start carrying some rubber gloves, a sharp knife and some Ziplok bags. Since I usually have to wear a suit to work that should be an interesting picture.<g’ -John

Response:

I wrote Eric Leiser years ago (early 80s) about using American Oppossum (commonly known as ‘possums) in flies. I got back a nice note (which I kept!) saying he had seen some very nice streamers using ‘possum. He said you could dye it colors if need be. He compared it to a "soft but still lustrous polar bear." Given the number of ‘possums that I see dead on the road I think I will have to start carrying some rubber gloves, a sharp knife and some Ziplok bags. Since I usually have to wear a suit to work that should be an interesting picture.<g’ -John

‘Possums – 325 million years of evolution, targeted at becoming roadkill. Ain’t nature mysterious! RMF

Response:

Last year, I spotted a large bird carcass by the side of the road. Thinking it was a goose, I swung around and pulled over. Well, it was actually a great blue herron which had been hit by a car and killed! I threw the whole thing in the back of my Subaru and took it home (my 10-year-old son loved it when I pulled it out and chased him with it! <g). Then, of course, I discovered that having a herron carcass was as illegal as owning a bald eagle skin. So much for a lifetime supply of salmon and steelhead flies! I called the local DNR office and turned the carcass in. Dave McCarty

Response:

I once published a piece in Rod and Reel (March 1985?) called "Roadkill Streamers" ..the best streamer fur I’m aware of is marmot: IE western woodchuck. How close marmots are or are not to eastern woodchucks I don’t know. But there is at least one big difference:    Unlike a woodchuck, the skin  of a marmot peels off like a rabbit skin–with no greasy fat adhering to the hide. Better yet, marmot fur has color-banded shades of gray-to-cree-brown, so it automatically looks a lot like a sculpin. Hard stuff to beat. I don’t bother with borax or multi-step tanning processes, all you need to do is strip off the fur and salt it a little.    Last note: marmot fur is so easy to peel off, it’s not a big trick to skewer a strip of fresh marmot skin on hook, add a split shot to the leader, and fish almost instantly. Is that bait fishing? Guess it is. I tried it once….didn’t seem to work any better tho. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

Keep new skins seperate from the rest of your materials until you are certain no pests are feeding off your new found treasure.  Freeze it for a few days to be on the safe side.

I just read in the current American Angler that freezing does not kill destructive insect larvae. The article recommends microwaving on high for 10 to 15 seconds, heating in an oven at 160 degrees for two or three hours, or exposing to sunlight. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keep new skins seperate from the rest of your materials until you are certain no pests are feeding off your new found treasure.  Freeze it for a few days to be on the safe side. I just read in the current American Angler that freezing does not kill destructive insect larvae. The article recommends microwaving on high for 10 to 15 seconds, heating in an oven at 160 degrees for two or three hours, or exposing to sunlight. — something bogus to avoid spam)

I douse the freshly dead animals ( either road kills or from local hunters ) with a powerful disinfectant spray, ( do not use disinfectant  with bleach additives ! ) and leave them for a short while. Then wearing gloves, I skin the animals, which should be as fresh as possible, using a very sharp scalpel ( just did two foxes which were about a week old ! Bloody awful job ! )  salt the skin liberally with a 1:1 mix of ordinary salt and borax, with a few crystals of napthalene added  ( crushed mothballs ), and then leave to dry in a cool dry place. Some skins I nail stretched to a board with galvanised nails ( stops skin and fur discolouration at the nailing point ). When dry, I rinse off the salt, and  wash the skins with ordinary soap powder (as used in the home washing machine), in the bathtub and spread on clean newspaper to dry.  When completely dry ( the skin feels like dry parchment to the touch ), place in an airtight box with a few mothballs.  I have some skins over twenty years old prepared in this way and they are still perfect.  If you get a good collection of skins ( Hare,  Fox, and Squirrel  is good), you can make up a whole range of wonderful dubbing. Dyeing the skins extends the range even further, and just a couple of skins will last the average tyer a lifetime. Hope this helps. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Years ago maybe still  road-kill pheasants were a popular item for fly tying materials in Northern Colorado. Are they still? I havent but in that are in a long time. Al

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The cock Ringneck Pheasant has some of the most varied and interesting feathers for tying that I have seen. — Ernie Harrison <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think most fly tiers take the Pheasant for granted because they are so common. No definitive line of flies have been invented for the use of pheasant feathers except a few basic ones.  Frankly, its time the inventive nature of the fly tying fraternity gets on the band wagon and start producing fly fishing patterns worth their salt. George

Response:

I’ve used roadkill for fly fur. — Jeff Potter   !.com   delete ‘DELETETHIS!’ to reply ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with a full line of books, bookstore & forum

Response:

Years ago maybe still  road-kill pheasants were a popular item for fly tying materials in Northern Colorado. Are they still? I havent but in that are in a long time. Al

could hope to have.  Between one of these and a hare’s ear mask, is the best of two worlds. I think most fly tiers take the Pheasant for granted because they are so common. No definitive line of flies have been invented for the use of pheasant feathers except a few basic ones.  Frankly, its time the inventive nature of the fly tying fraternity gets on the band wagon and start producing fly fishing patterns worth their salt. George —

Question:

Obviously you haven’t been to Elephant Butte. Mind you, the lake’s there as advertised. The camping sites are mostly very primitive, according to my son who has camped there. No trees or other shade. EB might be an OK area if one were staying in a motel in T or C, in an RV park, or on a houseboat, but it’s certainly not a good place to camp in a tent.

I have to agree with you, Pat.  Also, if he believes EB to be a huge lake, he has really been deprived.  By the way, I lived in TorC for several years and my son still lives there. Paul in Portland OR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know that there is huge lake in New Mexico- Elephant Butte Lake ??? You can fish, sail, swim, jet-ski, water-ski, camping and all of these in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert of New Mexico. Folks are very friendly down there and prices are very reasonable to visit. Check out this web page for more information: http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/ Regards,              Alex. Sounds like a place to avoid !

  LOL!!   Jet skiers and water skiers?  Sure, that may be ideal for   fishermen who want to cast corn for carp and watch barely dressed women water ski, but most fly fishermen I know would prefer a tent and 5 miles of uncrowded river to fish.——Muskie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know that there is huge lake in New Mexico- Elephant Butte Lake ??? You can fish, sail, swim, jet-ski, water-ski, camping and all of these in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert of New Mexico. Folks are very friendly down there and prices are very reasonable to visit. Check out this web page for more information: http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/ Regards,              Alex. Sounds like a place to avoid !

Why? Your way of camping (which must be in disagreement with at least one opportunity above) is the only way? Seems bigoted to me …

Response:

Bigoted or enlightened?  Most fly fishermen only like big crowds while at the flyfishing shows. I have enough trouble dealing with the "aluminum hatch" (canoes); can you imagine trying to be nice to jet ski riders? Give me a quiet spot, where the only "improvements" are water pumps and maybe a flush toilet.

| SNIP! | | Sounds like a place to avoid ! | |Why? Your way of camping (which must be in disagreement with at least |one opportunity above) is the only way? Seems bigoted to me …

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you know that there is huge lake in New Mexico- Elephant Butte Lake ??? You can fish, sail, swim, jet-ski, water-ski, camping and all of these in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert of New Mexico. Folks are very friendly down there and prices are very reasonable to visit. [snip] Sounds like a place to avoid ! Why? Your way of camping (which must be in disagreement with at least one opportunity above) is the only way? Seems bigoted to me …

Obviously you haven’t been to Elephant Butte. Mind you, the lake’s there as advertised. The camping sites are mostly very primitive, according to my son who has camped there. No trees or other shade. EB might be an OK area if one were staying in a motel in T or C, in an RV park, or on a houseboat, but it’s certainly not a good place to camp in a tent. — Pat O’Connell Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints, Kill nothing but vandals…

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Do you know that there is huge lake in New Mexico- Elephant Butte Lake ??? You can fish, sail, swim, jet-ski, water-ski, camping and all of these in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert of New Mexico. Folks are very friendly down there and prices are very reasonable to visit. Check out this web page for more information: http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/ Regards,              Alex.

Response:

Do you know that there is huge lake in New Mexico- Elephant Butte Lake ??? You can fish, sail, swim, jet-ski, water-ski, camping and all of these in the middle of the Chihuahuan desert of New Mexico. Folks are very friendly down there and prices are very reasonable to visit. Check out this web page for more information: http://www.globaldrum.net/rvnewmexico/ Regards,              Alex.

Sounds like a place to avoid !

Response:

Question:

As I was planning yet another stitched gife for my MIL, I realized I had never made anything for my FIL. Granted, DH didn’t have much to do with him for the first several years of our marriage (MIL & FIL had been divorced in the 70s) but everything is friendly now & MIL & FIL are married again (yes, to each other).  DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz

Checked my index for sports-fishing and found      Omnibook of Quickies-has a catfish, and other fishy things,             including hat!      Cross Stitcher Mag, June 96 and Aug 96- fishing motifs Also, I have seen hats & visors with a cross-stitch insert at Michael’s and elsewhere. Good luck! Kathy Hoover

Response:

DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz well….i saw a t-shirt that said "women want me…fish fear me…" lol cari

Cute idea.:-))  The mental picture I get when I connect it with my FIL is funnier than the original T shirt could ever be. ))))) Liz

Response:

As I was planning yet another stitched gife for my MIL, I realized I had never made anything for my FIL. Granted, DH didn’t have much to do with him for the first several years of our marriage (MIL & FIL had been divorced in the 70s) but everything is friendly now & MIL & FIL are married again (yes, to each other).  DH suggested stitching something on a fishing hat.  Has anyone tried this?  If so, what did you stitch?  He loves cat fish & is a lake/boat fisherman (as opposed to a stream/fly fisherman). Any ideas??? Liz

They make ballcaps with an aida panel already in it.  I’ve never tried stitching on a  hat myself so I don’t know how hard it would be. There are lots of fish patterns in magazines and catalogs, but most I’ve seen are a typical trout jumping, or lures or something.  I do remember one in a mag several years back with different lake fish in it.  I have no idea which mag or issue but I’ll look through mine and see if I can find it.  You could also design something yourself, along th lines of "world’s greatest fisherman" etc. Karen

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Question:

They will maul rabbit strip flies that act like sluggos–tubers and sluggo flies and double-bunnies–as well as buck-n-bunnies.  I’d keep my dahlbergs for something a bit less toothy. We catch a lot of pickerel on flies here even after the hardware anglers have been through because the neutral-bouyancy fly seems to bring them on.  Good luck. d

Response:

I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.  

In one of his books, John Geirach writes about catching gar on flyrods. Apparently, some guys make "flies" made up of frayed out pieces of nylon rope – no hooks!  It seems that you can’t "hook" a gar – their jaws are too bony.  If they strike the frayed rope, it will tangle around their teeth and you can haul them in.  What you do after you haul them in, I can’t say.  I actually tried this in the Outer Banks (yes, their are gar there) but I didn’t get any strikes.  Oh, well, John didn’t catch any either.

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Try Dalberg Divers. I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.  

Divers would probably be as good as anything – and just about anything *large* would probably work. While actually fishing for smallies, I’ve caught pickerel on everything from wool headed rabbits to deer hair mice. With them damn gar around, a bite guard of some kind would probably be warranted. 100 pound Mason, or even plastic coated stranded stainless wire might be a good idea – if you want to get through the day without losing too many of those large flies… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.               Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus                      Maynard, Massachusetts < < !!NOTE: Remove the "XX" from my address to respond by email!!  < <<<<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be                     shared by my employer, etc…

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Try Dalberg Divers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

Used to catch all kinds of pickerel all kinds of ways as a kid, including on fly.  I don’t think there is anything they won’t hit.  Try a Wooly Bugger or a bass  popper.  Use about 30 pound clear mono for a bite guard (stay away from wire, they won’t hit) and don’t be afraid to move it around a bit. Good Luck — Gordon Churchill Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

Response:

Howdy, I’m brand new to fly-fishing, so I’ve only been lurking at this ng for a month or so (hadda wait for Jon Ernst to leave before I even *dared* make a post).  Anyway, I live right by a nasty little pond in Northern Florida, said pond dominated by some pretty large chain pickerel and Florida gar.  I’m very interested in tangling with these thugs, so I’m looking for some recommendations on the type of fly I should use, as well as sage words about leaders/tippets.   TIA, Mark to reply, remove "killuce" from address.

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Question:

thanks for clarifying those aspects of your post I didn’t quite grasp re: comets. here in rainy BC we don’t get to see the sky much! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.        I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.        Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.        I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.        This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!        Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

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:   : : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers : :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers : :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : : : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : : exceeds the resources capacity!   : : : Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to : many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in : only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and : expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.   : Whoever the elite are?  Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the : SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite?  Are : your own irrational prejudices showing through?  Personally I have never : hired a guide.         I have, made me feel elite and I did not necessarily like it.  Point is that the outfitters do create limits on access to the people not wishing to spend that kind of money. : Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do : now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible : for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water.         Neither do I.  I do not mind if the access is equally open to all of us, however the local outfitters are capable of and frequently do consume all the access available on private-fee fisheries and thus make the effective cost much,much higher.  That prices the opportunity out of reach for most. : My point is:  Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few : waters.  To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all : waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, : force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen.         I do not, nor have I ever advocated **forcing** anyone to kill.  I limit my kill to as low a level as I can.  I have not consumed a trout for food in as long as I can remember.  I advocate allowing limited harvest rather than pure C&R.  I thought my post had made that clear. : I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to : reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain : general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow : individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints.         This is precisely what I meant to say, only I argue that pure C&R is not the only approach and in most cases, it is unjustifyable. : If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching!         Thanks, but I prefer comets. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past. Sincerely, Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

Response:

No Tim, I haven’t been lulled into anything. It’s a personal belief that has grown and matured during my 20 years of flyfishing. If C&R is done properly, i.e without touching the fish when possible and reducing the time of the fight, it beats the hell out of C&K. You’re right about one thing – it is best to leave them alone. Knocking everything you catch on the head is however both much more disrespectful to the pray than letting them go, and is simply a practise that belongs to the past.

Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue. Only day before yesterday, Tim W said: ….and now I’m movin’ on…you either get it or you don’t…

And this, in debate terms, is called ‘begging the question’. I rest my case. and then said: No more C&R diatribe from me…

QED I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two). May work, may not. Here’s hoping. — Lon Hall Applied Intelligence Group, Inc. Home #: (405)359-1556 Work #: (405)936-2389 "Eat the rich. The poor are tough and stringy."

Response:

Lon Hall writes: Hans – You can’t seriously debate with someone who *screams* about how heinous it is to scar a fish’s face and then let it go, but who freely admits to dragging fish around on a stringer while float-tubing because it keeps them fresh. Hell, use of a priest to euthanize the fish would be much *more* respectful and considerate than that. The *only* thing important to this guy is to go on feeling good about his right to kill fish when and wherever he wants. Don’t waste your breath treating with him or your time thinking he has a coherent point to argue.

(snip) I am only trying to clue you in because I don’t recall seeing your name on posts before (forgive me if I am mistaken). I am probably rash in posting this, because, as you may have observed, we’ve been trying to shut debate on this topic down for a while (and maybe drop the animosity level a notch or two).

Thanks Lon, for dropping the animosity level down a notch or two. jim

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ?

Sounds like your argument is "If you hook it, kill it – otherwise don’t fish". Gee, I sure hope you never lose control of a cast and end up hooking yourself.  "Yipes!  Hooked myself!  Better go shoot myself now…" <BANG!  <thud  (I can see the obituary page now – "Catch and Kill Fisherman Was True To His Sport".  :-) If I followed that logic where I fish most often I’d soon be out of fish.  It’s a small pond that probably has only a dozen or so good-sized bass in it.  If I killed each one I caught there wouldn’t be many left now, so I put ‘em back after I catch ‘em. My point is that what’s correct for you may not be correct for others in different situations, and vice versa.  Ah well, diff’rent strokes and all… — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

           TIM,    IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU JUST WROTE THAN YOU SHOULD RESPECT THE FISH AND QUIT TRYING TO CATCH THEM  OR ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER  HYPOCRITE WHO LIKES TO HEAR HIMSELF PASS GAS.                    HARV

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusuall

Tim has certainly stated clearly that by lottery or by some enforced c&k regulation on all waters he wants to see fishing pressure reduced to the minimum number of anglers per mile. he has been all over the map on how to do this but Tim clearly has a prejudice against others who use the waters in ways he does not favour and will stoop to all sorts of regulations etc to get them off so he can enjoy his sport on his terms at their expense. : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  

Whoever the elite are? Is a fellow who hires a guide for 2 days on the SanJuan but never at any other point in the year a member of the elite? Are your own irrational prejudices showing through? Personally I have never hired a guide. Personally I would have no problem with paying more for a licence than I do now or paying a stream fee that is reasonable and doesn’t make it impossible for most fishers to enjoy a good number of days on the water. My point is: Tim and yourself seem obsessed with the problems of a few waters. To solve that problem they would radically alter our access to all waters and even more radically alter how we act on them; force us to kill, force us to be instruments of harvest and not sportsmen. I argue it is possible to regulate waters such as this individually to reduce the problem and force anglers to spread out but overall maintain general access and a pluralistic approach to harvest issues that allow individuals to follow a variety of viewpoints. After jousting with Don Quixote for a number of months I still don’t know what his bottom line is or what he is really after. I find increasingly I am dealing with a point of view that is self righteous, closed minded, hypocritical, sees the resource and the sport as exclusively for those that share the point of view and shifts and gets more radical as one finds legitimate criticism of it’s basic proposals. I also find it is a point of view that assumes it has a sort of papal infallability and is beyond criticism. just look at his response to the criticism of his use of stringers. Any level of agony inflicted on fish is justified as long as he is the one who is inflicting it! Because he eats the catch he has given himself carte blanche to something approaching sadism. If you don’t like it any more give it up and take up bird watching! Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature

Hans, I am afraid that you too have been lulled in to believing that the disrespect of hooking nature in the face with a hook can be mitigated by its release.  This ‘respect of nature’ argument is the most ludicrous and hypocritical reason for pure C&R that I can think of.  If you *truly* respected our wild friends, you would *not* fish for them, you would leave them alone, would you not ? Respectfully, — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<snip : – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE :    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT :   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY :     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! : You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of : others! <snip Tim, correct me if I am wrong….  I is my understanding from reading Tim’s posts, that he does not oppose releasing a fish…  But rather opposes the existence of *pure* C&R fisheries.  Pure C&R fisheries lead to many evils, scarred & damaged fish, unusually crowded and overfished stretches of rivers, and the threat of PETA attacking our sport.   We could change the regulation to a slot limit on most pure C&R fisheries without diminishing the fish significantly and then allow the taking of the older, scarred up fish.  This *for me* would much improve the fishing experience because I personally do not like catching torn up scarred up fish like you find consistently in the locations listed below.

:       There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: :       The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. :       The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. :       The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. :       If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these :       places then you will never ever understand the truth.   : So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact : regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers :  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers :  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide : they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – : and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access : exceeds the resources capacity!   We already have a few lottery situations in the regulations of hunting.  I believe this will ultimately become a necessary solution if the popularity of fishing continues to increase at the rate we have seen in the past few years. While I would not like the restriction of access at all, I would enjoy the fishing experience much more assuming the lottery is fairly administered. This however will not happen because the outfitters will demand an unfair share of the access to maintain their businesses.   Ralph, IMHO, lottery and fee based restrictions you advocate run contrary to many of the arguments you made in your post.  These methods will result in only the elite getting access, because the non-elite cannot afford guides and expensive fees for a few hours of fishing.  Also, *I believe* lottery systems will unfairly favor the guides who will find ways to obtain more than their fair share of access permits to further their business. You can argue that a lottery system already exists in this way….  First to a fishing hole gets the spot.  The guides on many rivers in our area arrive very early (or have a paid flunky get there) and stake out the best fishing holes on the river.  They bring their sports (elitists who have the bucks to hire a guide to grab and hold the best water) to these spots and stay there all day.  You will find this happening alot on the Pan and So Platte.  On the floatable rivers, the guides get more than their fair share for float permits, thus again limiting access to the elite. These are complex problems which will get nothing but worse as population increases in our area.  I fish now and enjoy it very much, but I do not expect to fish nearly as much in the future as the quality of the experience continues to diminish with the pressure of multitudes.  One can only hope that Hollywood does not make another movie about flyfishing. — Hewlett Packard, ESL R&D, MS55 Ft. Collins, CO  80525

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills! TimW writes:    The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie    throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!    You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals    only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal    in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see them – <BEG)    The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in    the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into    thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for    fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]    You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number    of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE   WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT  LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY    THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.    There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:    The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.    The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.    The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.    If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these    places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only instruments of harvest not sports fishers.    Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries    management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen    per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H        TimW Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

                       Harv

Response:

Tim, you should change your handle to Don Quioxte; you put so much effort into tilting at wind mills!  TimW writes:

        The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie         throws snowballs at it.. [snip] Your dog poop "thing" reminds me of a funny story: A friend went to complain to his neighbour about the neighbours dog crapping on his lawn. As they stood discussing the issue – of course the neighbour contested his dog would never do such a thing – the dog wandered over into my friends yard and dumped in plain sight of both of them. That’s exactly what’s happened here!         You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals         only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal         in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. [snip] By your gut you refer to your stomach no doubt – your great arbitrator of ethical issues. If there is an ethical issue ( and you’ve never even tried to establish why  there is one) it is far more complex than you make out – or even have attempted to comprehend; (Oh sorry Tim this may be an insult but then I’m just calling them as I see  them – <BEG)         The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in         the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into         thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for         fun. Whatever that carnage may be if it exists anywhere but in your imagination remains to be defined and exposed; get off your duff and do it  - maybe I’ll come around to your point of view! [snip]         You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number         of and size of fish. This is the part where YOUR dog craps on my lawn in plain sight of everyone who has a look; I made no such insistence; I usually choose less uncrowded waters populated with fewer fish to have some peace- BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE- I’m not out to stuff my choice down anyone’s throat.  The fish I catch are often a pound or less when I could easily go  elsewhere to catch pickup loads of fish bigger than you have ever seen. – I WILL NOT ACCEPT BEING LABELLED AS A GREEDY PERSON BY SOMEONE    WHOSE AVOWED INTENTION IS TO ENACT RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT   LIMIT FISHING OPPORTUNITIES TO A FEW SO HIS PLEASURE IS IMPEDED BY     THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PEOPLE POSSIBLE! You are out to enhance your pleasure at the expense of the pleasure of others! If that isn’t greed what is? Any greed associated with catch and release  pales beside that old chum. You know Tim I hoped you could do better than these dreary ad hominium arguments – but perhaps you’ve picked up the habit from some my fellow c&r’ers who couldn’t do better either.         There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters:         The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi.         The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway.         The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon.         If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these         places then you will never ever understand the truth.   So? Why don’t you show the kind of guts we’ve shown in BC and enact regulations that reduce the level of pressure on those rivers; those rivers  belong to the residents of those states! Check out the regs for BC rivers  like the Dean! Non-residents have to pay more; they have to use a guide they may have to enter a lottery for a right to fish – and yes I support the use of lottery entrance where the demand for access exceeds the resources capacity!   But I will never support lottery access so some catch and kill elitists  can get all the rivers to themselves, so they can kill a few fish but bar those who’d let them go! The very essence of the sport has to be that given a set of regulations the angler gets to choose how he pursues his sport. This was the meaning of Haig Browns "the Law Breaker" if we are forced to kill then we are only  instruments of harvest not sports fishers.         Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries         management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen         per mile Gee who was that? Ralph H         TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

Well spoken, Ralph! Here in the northern Sweden I’m not obliged to release the browns, graylings or char I catch. I’ll do it anyway, out of respect of nature and its limited resources. If I had to kill all the watery friends I manage to outwit, by imitating what they eat, by making a great cast, by reading the water or simply by persistance, then I would feel sick. It would be like having to kill the dog after walking it. Roughly… /Hans Edman, Umea, Sweden

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Yeah yeah yeah… The neighbor’s collie still craps on the lawn even after Eddie throws snowballs at it…you can leave the bitch out on a 20 below zero night and she still wags her tail at you in the morning.  Same thing if you stake her out in the hot August sun in Rifle.  You can be cruel as hell to a dog, they’ll still be around to crap on the lawn, man. But you know Ralph…I feel better that I do not kick her or tie her up in the sun and I feel better when she has water and food. You and many pure C&R-ers measure the ethical treatment of animals only by mortality studies.  You do not consider that a wild animal in its element *deserves* a certain amount of respect. They do not exist purely for our pleasure, of that I am certain.  This is what MY gut tells me.   The carnage of pure C&R is swept under the rug every month in the ff magazines and the entire industry is brainwashed into thinking that it is somehow OK to hurt a wild animal, just for fun. Why do you continue to ignore the efficacy of selective harvest as a workable concept in all fisheriy situations ? You insist (greedily) that ‘quality fishing’ implies ONLY number of and size of fish.  This ONLY guarantees crowded conditions which nails the coffin of quality shut… There is no quality of experience left in the following pure C&R waters: The San Juan below Navajo Dam.  The Frying Pan below Reudi. The Green below Flaming Gorge.  The Uncompaghre below Ridgway. The South Platte (God rest her soul) below Cheesman canyon. If you think that pure C&R has enhanced your experience in these places then you will never ever understand the truth.   Someone actually argued against the position that fisheries management is about a balance of fish and having as few fishermen per mile as possible.  Amazing.  Absolutely amazing.   TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice. There is nothing we do when we lure a fish, hook it, play it, land and then release it that is not done with catch and kill. The experience of the fish is the same up until the point it is released! Then it is given a 90%+ chance of survival! Ninety percent or better that it will spawn and enhance the fish stock. Ninety percent or better that it will do the fishy things that make a fishes life worth while. That make our sport worth while. If we cave in to the hysterical and illogical forces that would restrict the catching and killing of fish to force of law and the chance of lottery we will strip the sport of its essence. We will  be able to fish so seldom that most will hang their rods in shame and pursue other pastimes. For those that do continue to fish the mystery of fishing will be replaced by the certainty of a dead fish or two and a modest meal. Without catch and release fishing as we have come to know it will not stand and will pass into the oblivion of archaic practice.

– TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

you do not need pretty flies to catch fish.  Everyone I know started by tying an excruciatingly ugly mutant bugger creature.  Everyone I know also

I just tied my first fly around a month ago.  While I wouldn’t call it excruciatingly ugly (yet–it is looking uglier all the time), mutant bugger creature is a pretty good description. I decided to record my misadventures before I forget the specifics.   Here’s my description of that first fly. "  I’d been reading up on fly tying for a few months but it took a little while to get my fingers lacquered.  Since I had yet to get any of the normal tools or supplies, my first fly was tied with a size 10 bait hook, dark grey cat hair (under-fur), sewing thread, and two pheasant feathers picked up  from the local five and dime.  It’s a bit rough but not bad for a first attempt.  The cat hair appears to trap microscopic bubbles when under water and with the thread ribbing looks nicely segmented (if a bit uneven in spots).  I was going to put some hackle on it but the stem on the dime store hackle I was trying to use kept breaking."   _Rich_

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I like Lefty Kreh’s book "Advanced Flyfishing Techniques- Secrets of an Avid Fisherman." If you’re learning how cast or having casting problems, you should look into getting a lesson.

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anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying? e-mail me if any please!

Hi Jolivas – I used Jack Dennis’ Western Trout Fly Tying Manual, myself, and really found it helpful.  Good photos of the step by step process for tying very practical and useful flies, including dry flies, hair flies, nymphs, streamers, and wet flies.  Also a good discussion of tools and materials.  This is a great place to start, and from there there is no end to books on fly tying. Have fun with it this winter, and by this spring you should have a selection of very useful patterns. Charlie Miller

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anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying?

 They are in the LIBRARY..next to the books, that teach you Neurosurgery!!!…;)

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anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying?  They are in the LIBRARY..next to the books, that teach you Neurosurgery!!!…;)

Nancy Try Randall Kaufmann’s books or Skip Morris. Kaufman’s revised editions have about 15 or so colored plates illustrating steps in tying each fly. Skip Morris’s books also have colored plates. Hope this helps Ron

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Master Angler shows each step on your computer screen, a how-to video and /or a printout of each step in book form. Yours or someone else’s — Bob Sheedy Arctic Fire Software Home of THE FISHING LOG and MASTER ANGLER http://www.articfire.com/arcfire/fishing.htm

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anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying? e-mail me if any please!

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: anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying? : e-mail me if any please! Try a local bookstore. The shevles are loaded with them. If not that, try the library. Jon Porter

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Not learned from a book.  The young usually learn from the parents or other members of the hatch. anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying? e-mail me if any please!

Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

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Not learned from a book.  The young usually learn from the parents or other members of the hatch. anyone have the location of a book that teaches fly flying? e-mail me if any please!

Almost any fly tying manual will get you through the basics.   Besides, you do not need pretty flies to catch fish.  Everyone I know started by tying an excruciatingly ugly mutant bugger creature.  Everyone I know also caught fish with their first fly. Van Vliet’s "The Art of Fly Tying" is an attractive, comprehensive, and usefully illustrated book. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Question:

[some deleted] But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book.

I sense and share your frustration Mike.  Hang tough and keep up the good work. TimW

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The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year.

That is definitely a point we have to keep in mind. The message that started this thread made all sorts of dire pronouncements that any artificial material would be prohibited in fishing. As several people pointed out, that pretty much eliminates steel hooks, synthetic yarn, nylon monofilament leaders and much of what we use to fish with. It’s also the exact opposite of what was really being proposed. Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations. The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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snip The real question is whether Power Eggs(tm) and the like constitute some sort of unfair advantage in certain waters or are conducive to higher mortality through deep hooking. That’s presumably why we pay big bucks to marine biologists to set these policies.

snip I’m not sure I understand the concept of "unfair advantage" when it comes to fishing.  The first thing that came to mind was some fly fishermen being upset about bait working better (I know that’s not what you meant Michael). Ross Wilson

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Mike, I think there’s no doubt that a 3-inch Power Tube is an "artificial" under the new regulations. If it were less than 1.5 inches it would not be an artificial. After thinking more about your posts, however, I guess I’ve come around to your view that the new regs won’t cover a variety of possible situations, especially ones where there is scented material made part of a lure or fly over 1.5 inches long. Best wishes.  Jeff

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Let’s leave off the alarmist garbage and deal with the real issues. The worm fisherman is no more or less holy than we of the exalted fly genre. Different people enjoy different types of fishing and different waters require different regulations.

Except the worm fishermen doesn’t lobby, pressure, or persuade those that we pay the big bucks to exclude the flyfishermen from their preferred methods of enjoyment. respectfully, Mike Miller

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry regards, Mike

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Ok Jeff, so answer this question please, Can you or can you not fish with a 3" BERKLEY POWER TUBE? regards, Mike

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry

Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW Greed……no doubt, but I suspect more than just the Fly – fishing industry Why would any other group *care* about a flyfishing only definition ? TimW

The driving force behind  this definition was to eliminate the use of premolded scented baits (berkely power eggs) that were LEGALLY artificial until January of this year. Spinney Mountain Res. was the focus of much of the debate.  As you probably know Spinney is managed as "Gold Medal" Water with artificial  fly & lure only tackle restrictions and a one fish over 20" bag limit and the canyon  recently had Gold Medal regulations extended to the dam. My reference to purists, elitists, attitudes comes from experience fishing these waters and a witness to the debates over the issue at the commission meetings. On opening day 1995 at Spinney, there was a gentlemen fishing with power eggs. He had brought along the lawn chair and 4 young children. This guy caught about 6 trout that day on his chartreuse colored power eggs allowing each of the kids an opportunity to bring one in. He kept one and as far as I could tell no  harm came to the fish he released. But this guy came under heavy and constant critizism from the crowd (who were primarily fishless) because in their *holier than thou minds* he was a scondrel for using such a bait (although technically he was not breaking any laws.) Now, I will not dispute the fact that PASSIVELY fishing such a bait will probably kill alot of fish that by law have to be released. But at Spinney I have witnessed many a fine fish played to exhaustion, kept out of the water for extreme periods of time, (for the picture ceremony)  dropped on the rocks a couple of times, drug along the bank in the sand, and kicked back into the water because it was only 19 7/8" long. But the attitude by these anglers was" I caught and released that fish on a real artificial fly (probably a chartreuse egg pattern with attractant sprayed on it ) with a  2 lb tippet. So I must be a better sportsmen then the guy in the lawn chair." This is nothing but alot of Crap in my book. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions.

I was surprised (not pleasantly) to notice that Mike Miller was the only one of the many who commented on this who seemed to have actually read the regulation. Most others assumed that what Paul had "just heard" was the gospel truth, then proceeded to denigrate the DOW for being so asinine. It is pretty obvious that very few contemporary fishing flies could be tied without using artificial or synthetic materials. Even rayon thread would be prohibited by such a regulation. Besides, it would be virtually unenforceable and bad for public relations. To prohibit artificial material from an artificial lure such as a fly is counter to the whole idea behind bait regulations. They generally seek to limit the use of live bait and artificial substances which simulate live bait (such as power bait, etc.). It would not make sense for anyone to prohibit the use of artificial materials in an artificial lure. People would have to start carving their bass plugs out of wood again. My point is, on the face of it, this "report" of what Paul had "heard" is not credible and needs to be checked out before we go griping about what stupidity the DOW is currently engaged in. — |     Liberty Communications — Spreading the Word     | |                Michael P. Thompson                   |

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J Let’s not forget that what they are *trying* to do is to find a J definition that excludes powerbait and its related "scented lure" J products. A good point.  Trying is the operative word here and sloppy legislation does not a good bill make.  Having lived in Denver for two years, I applaud setting waters aside for bait (power bait, although synthetic, is still bait IMHO) and artificial approaches. Heck, I _enjoy_ bait fishing once or twice a year for stockies. As a lifelong redneck I have drown my share of worms and crickets and defend anyone’s right to do so. It is up to the folks at wildlife to make sure that catch and keep does not endanger wild fish. Well, there’s my opinion anyway. But thanks for your post!      Trey Monroe

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For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish.

A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, peacock, and tan thorax regions?

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: A salmon egg floating on the surface being eaten by what? The Stimulator : has the classic profile of both fluttering caddis and stones. Further, : how does your egg theory explain the success of the same fly with olive, : peacock, and tan thorax regions? For me, they haven’t been nearly as effective as the orange color.  And I’m not certain the color triggers anything near a salmon egg… perhaps it looks like a big eye.  My point is that there are better imitations of the things you mention, but the Stimmy works well, often better. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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if it weren’t for the greedy flyfishing industry, this would not even be an issue..IMHO..protectionism… TimW

Response:

Someone who has the new regulations, please read them and tell me if a 1.6 inch artificial Power Worm is artificial under the new regulation. My reading suggests that they are to be considered "artificial"

This issue arose at Spinney Mountain on opening day 1996, several individuals were using 3" Berkley Power Tubes. They looked identical  to other tube jigs (i.e. gitizits). The State Parks law enforcement officer  explained to me that according to his instructions they were lega, stating they were over 1 1/2". Also a DOW officer checked these fishermen and did not issue a citation or stop them from being used.   However, I contacted the DOW on this issue and at least one official said "no way, they cannot be used and that all  power bait is illegal. " As I stated in a previous post, except for obvious infractions (power eggs)  this law will be un-enforcable. Even the DOW is confused. regards, Mike Miller

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Response:

I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

No Colorado didn’t. I think I’ve heard that F&W is discussing not allowing power bait and other non-natural baits to be fished in the artificals only waters.

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I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Know any suppliers of barbless *bone* hooks?? — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not : use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, : it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Interesting, and really raises some issues.  For example, I’ve fallen in love with the Stimulator this year… it has brought some very large fish to shore.  Why?  Is it a caddis imitation or a stone fly imitation?  I say neither… it’s probably that orange piece in the front of the fly that looks like a Salmon Egg to the fish.  A Stimulator doesn’t closely imitate anything in the water, but sure catches some large fish. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

The intent of the Colorado’s definition of what constitutes an *artificial* fly or lure was simply to eliminate scented baits, such as  power baits & eggs.  Unfortunately the wording is very confusing and I think the C.D.O.W. doesn’t totallly understand what they have said. It will probably be un – enforceable except for the obvious infractions. It says something like anything less than 1 1/2 inches long cannot be made out of *plastic* or scented material. The question that has come up is what if it is over  1 1/2 inches long  (Berkley Power Tubes for example) or if  it is under 1 1/2inches does this exclude *foam* or even plastic tube jigs (unscented)? And can you add scent to a fly or lure less than 1 1/2 "? regards, Mike Miller – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked. Don Burns

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(PaulS41846) writes: I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this.

Oh Yeah! Another reason to simply quit ffing and take up something else (billiards comes immediately to mind….) With all the problems facing the resource, and the sport in general, now the gov is picking at minutea (sp?). The saddest part is that an early and powerful proponent of synth materials for flies, John Betts, lives in Denver. If there is some percieved ecological threat with these materials why didn’t they look at those GD’d foam bobbers (strike indicators) that litter our streams too! Does that mean the hook has to be made from a thorn? Steel was synthetic the last time I looked.

Good Point <G!  Sounds like our politicians are doing their best to screw everything up as usual.  Like with the Rimm Report! </chaz (not Sue)

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P I just heard that the state of Colorado has decided that flies should not P use any artificial (synthetic) materials. If it uses such things as foam, P it is a bait and not a fly. Any comments about this. Hmm, if it isn’t or hasn’t been alive and uses only sight attraction, not smell to attract fish, and you can cast it with a fly rod, that’s close enough to a fly for me. Besides, if this passes, will enforcement be forced to looking through people’s fly boxes to make sure that there is no crystal flash? What about nylon thread, rayon floss, or heavens to gimbles, micro fibbets tailing! Sounds like missplaced emphasis IMHO.      Trey Monroe

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Power Bait on the frying pan river…? Lucky Lou’s…? Getcha thumped…that’s fer sure… In practice, there is a VERY fine line (no pun intended) between a Glo-Bug and a Lucky Lou.  Or a Pittendrigh foam after a little fish slime and power bait.  Or a san Juan worm and a red wriggler.  It’s all in our heads man, that one is somehow better then the other…isn’t it ?   What is the difference between a Kastmaster and a Zonker ? TimW (In case you think that I miss the point….) I have retrieved slimy GloBugs from the gills and gullets of bleeding trout as deeply as shore chucked pautzkees. I have had wooly worms and buggers kill fish.  I have sent small trout flying into the bushes on a #14 adams on an ‘overzealous strike’.  Fish die man no matter WHAT you hook ‘em on…

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Question:

I am thinking of moving to Phoenix, but I want o know if there is anywhere to flyfish out there.  If anyone could help me I would appreciate it.

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I am thinking of moving to Phoenix, but I want o know if there is anywhere to flyfish out there.  If anyone could help me I would appreciate it.

By out there, I assume you mean Arizona in general. There are at least a dozen bass lakes within 1-2 hours of Phoenix, most of which support largemouth, smallmouth, crappies, panfish, whitebass, etc. Within 2-3 hours you can reach the Flagstaff Area which is surrounded by one of the largest Ponderosa Pine forests in the U.S. (7000+ ft elevation). There are a variety of lakes with rainbows, browns, walleye, northern pike and a few streams (rainbows/browns) in the area. Then 3-4 hours will bring you to the White Mountains/Apache Indian Reservation and some of the best fishing in the state. There are many lakes/streams/creeks in the area which support browns, rainbows, grayling, and native species such as the Apache and Gila trout. Recent fishing reports have mentioned quite a few 3-5 pound rainbows being caught (and hopefully released) at some of the White Mountain lakes. I shouldn’t fail to mention Lee’s Ferry on the Colorado River, 4-5 hours from Phoenix, a definite Blue-Ribbon tailwater fishery (barbless hooks, fly/artifical lure only, and slot limits). Of course, 6-10 hours will get you to quite a few places in Utah, New Mexico, and Colorado including San Juan, Animas, Boulder Mountain, etc. And don’t forget, AZ is close to Mexico and saltwater flyfishing If you want some more specific information you can contact the folks at Canyon Creek Anglers (a flyshop in Phoenix) at 602-277-8195.

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