Question:

days.  I would guess the tire needed more brakes for some reason in each case. You said it was the home base and the base is notorious for the effect of sudden brakage.

The first plane was a Fed-Ex A-300 out of Newark. They stopped in less than 4000′ of runway. All 8 main tires were blown. Jacks had to be trucked in to raise it up to change the tires. Once it was raised, the brakes wouldn’t disassemble. It was on the runway about 12 hours. Interestingly, it isn’t in the FAA’s incident listings. The second plane was a DC-3 based at nearby airport. Flat tires on taildraggers can be tricky. Fortunately they didn’t ground-loop it. The local newspaper reported that no flights had to divert. You know I sent a sarcastic e-mail to that editor. D.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was a clear calm morning. The sun was just coming up over the ocean. The temperature was around 70F. I had an easy commute in to work. The employee parking shuttle bus driver waited for me to walk over and board instead of making me wait 15 minutes for the next one. I had only one Jeppeson update to do. There weren’t any nasty memoes from the chief pilot. No one was running their noisy APU, so I did the pre-flight exterior inspection. For once, I didn’t find any discrepencies. The only way it could have been better is if I started the day fishing instead of waiting until I got off work to go fishing. After the pre-flight, I was standing next to the plane chatting with a friend. He and I used to tow banners together. As we were talking, a big cloud of smoke rolled across the airfield. It was tire smoke but too much for a normal landing. Then a gate agent motioned for me to come up the jetway because the boarding passengers were concerned about the smell. I gave them an explanation that worked. After I hung up the PA, my helper-pilot told me that the main runway was shut down because of a disabled aircraft. We made a bet on which airline it was. It turned out to be my turn to buy lunch. Our departure time is at the start of the morning rush of departures, but the morning rush wasn’t happening because many flights were having headaches trying to get their weight down so they could use the short runway. We launched from the short runway in good time. The trip up to the Northeast was pleasant. We called the field insight from 60 miles out. Our turn time was good. We were ready to board when my intuition made the other pilot call clearance. Sure enough, we had a 2 hour gate hold because of delays due to a disabled airplane at our destination. That was going to cut into my fishing time. After the first hour passed, and the greasy spoon diner they call a restaurant had started serving lunch, I sauntered up to the gate area to get a bite to eat. I was surrounded by anxious passengers wanting more information. The gate agent had been instructed not to say anything. A certain irritable streak deep inside was starting to wiggle around because, unlike management, I know how to run an airline. I picked up the PA and gave the folks the information they craved. Just as my speech was winding down, the gate agent wispered to me that our gear-up time had been moved up. I keyed the PA again and told everyone that we had 20 minutes to be in the air or else ATC would send us to the end of the list. Those people must have liked my speech. They ran down the jetway. They stuffed bags in the overheads with super-human strength. I think I saw them shove the last standing passenger into a seat. We set a record for boarding a full plane. They must have liked my speech. Number 2 engine was lit and spooling up as we ran the runway. We made it into the air with less than a minute left of our edict. Maybe I should use that speech more often. The flight southbound was just as nice. ATC was giving vectors and speed restrictions to other traffic in order to get the required in-trail spacing, but they left us alone. All was going well. Too well. On the arrival, 30 miles from the airport, we were given holding instructions. It caught us by surprise. I had to fly the first orbit by hand until my helper-pilot programmed the hold into the FMS. Then he called the tower for more information. He turned to me and said, "What are the odds?". The main runway was still shutdown because it still had an airplane on it with 8 blown tires. The second runway was now shutdown because it also had an airplane on it with blown tires. What are the odds? The second plane was a DC-3. I know that the last DC-3 towbar left the airport a long time ago. The first disabled plane was still on it’s axles. The airport wouldn’t be open anytime soon. We decided that holding wouldn’t change anything, so we diverted to another airport. I never did get to go fishing that day. It was a beautiful day for fishing and I was stuck at the airport. What are the odds? D.

Two blown tire incidents in one days.  I would guess the tire needed more brakes for some reason in each case. You said it was the home base and the base is notorious for the effect of sudden brakage. And fishing at your homebase is a passtime so maybe it has to do with water near the end of the runway. I remember Boston for this problem in the news papers. Is Boston your base?? I remember the Massacheustts solution for the Boston runway problem was to keep the old one and add a second without water as the overrun. Except the new one solved the noise polution problem only and is a poor use for the new North End. Somebody had Mayor White’s old crowd mad at them way back.

Response:

It was a clear calm morning. The sun was just coming up over the ocean. The temperature was around 70F. I had an easy commute in to work. The employee parking shuttle bus driver waited for me to walk over and board instead of making me wait 15 minutes for the next one. I had only one Jeppeson update to do. There weren’t any nasty memoes from the chief pilot. No one was running their noisy APU, so I did the pre-flight exterior inspection. For once, I didn’t find any discrepencies. The only way it could have been better is if I started the day fishing instead of waiting until I got off work to go fishing. After the pre-flight, I was standing next to the plane chatting with a friend. He and I used to tow banners together. As we were talking, a big cloud of smoke rolled across the airfield. It was tire smoke but too much for a normal landing. Then a gate agent motioned for me to come up the jetway because the boarding passengers were concerned about the smell. I gave them an explanation that worked. After I hung up the PA, my helper-pilot told me that the main runway was shut down because of a disabled aircraft. We made a bet on which airline it was. It turned out to be my turn to buy lunch. Our departure time is at the start of the morning rush of departures, but the morning rush wasn’t happening because many flights were having headaches trying to get their weight down so they could use the short runway. We launched from the short runway in good time. The trip up to the Northeast was pleasant. We called the field insight from 60 miles out. Our turn time was good. We were ready to board when my intuition made the other pilot call clearance. Sure enough, we had a 2 hour gate hold because of delays due to a disabled airplane at our destination. That was going to cut into my fishing time. After the first hour passed, and the greasy spoon diner they call a restaurant had started serving lunch, I sauntered up to the gate area to get a bite to eat. I was surrounded by anxious passengers wanting more information. The gate agent had been instructed not to say anything. A certain irritable streak deep inside was starting to wiggle around because, unlike management, I know how to run an airline. I picked up the PA and gave the folks the information they craved. Just as my speech was winding down, the gate agent wispered to me that our gear-up time had been moved up. I keyed the PA again and told everyone that we had 20 minutes to be in the air or else ATC would send us to the end of the list. Those people must have liked my speech. They ran down the jetway. They stuffed bags in the overheads with super-human strength. I think I saw them shove the last standing passenger into a seat. We set a record for boarding a full plane. They must have liked my speech. Number 2 engine was lit and spooling up as we ran the runway. We made it into the air with less than a minute left of our edict. Maybe I should use that speech more often. The flight southbound was just as nice. ATC was giving vectors and speed restrictions to other traffic in order to get the required in-trail spacing, but they left us alone. All was going well. Too well. On the arrival, 30 miles from the airport, we were given holding instructions. It caught us by surprise. I had to fly the first orbit by hand until my helper-pilot programmed the hold into the FMS. Then he called the tower for more information. He turned to me and said, "What are the odds?". The main runway was still shutdown because it still had an airplane on it with 8 blown tires. The second runway was now shutdown because it also had an airplane on it with blown tires. What are the odds? The second plane was a DC-3. I know that the last DC-3 towbar left the airport a long time ago. The first disabled plane was still on it’s axles. The airport wouldn’t be open anytime soon. We decided that holding wouldn’t change anything, so we diverted to another airport. I never did get to go fishing that day. It was a beautiful day for fishing and I was stuck at the airport. What are the odds? D.

Response:

Question:

 I’ll let you turn on the furnace, Peter. Dave

Damn right ’cause I’m not letting you cuddle up to me.   I would very much like to do the Kennebec, the more I hear about it, the more intrigued I am.  Sounds like you had a wonderful time. BTW, I’ve run into John Valk twice since the float trip and he keeps saying nice things about you.  You made an impression.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter writes: BTW, I’ve run into John Valk twice since the float trip and he keeps saying nice things about you.  You made an impression.  :)

He loves me because I can cast over my left shoulder in the rear and the front of the boat, thereby avoiding his ears.  d;o) Can’t wait for May……  I think I will stay with my 8 weight and buy a new Lamson large arbor.  From him, of course. And, you will love the Kennebec.  It is meant for streamer fishing. Dave

Response:

That fish wasn’t nothin but icing on the cake of a fine trip…… john

Response:

<snipped good TR This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold.

I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim

Response:

This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold. I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim

Wuss.  Went ‘fishing for science’ today on a little gem of an urban pond (in Dave LaCourse’s old neighborhood).  We were helping a water quality monitoring program by harvesting some fish for analysis (the fish are being FedExed to UMaine for heavy metal and PCB testing).  I caught a lot of bluegills on slowly retrieved Zug Bugs and picked up two really nice chain pickerel (over 16" apiece, fat and feisty) and a couple of ‘keeper’ sized bass on unweighted wooly buggers on my 4 wt.  Jim picked up several calicos (black crappie) on a trolled damsel nymph.  It was really nice once the sun came out.

Response:

Great report Dave where on the Kennebec do you go what town that is. They had a TU program a few months ago on the Kennebec River they were catch browns and bows.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold. I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim Wuss.

Yeah, I know. I did finally get out at around 10:00 when it warmed up a bit. Caught a *big* brown with two extra flies and some tippet attached. Hopefully, he’s swimming more comfortably now. My hands got very cold once I started fishing. Are there any special or modified gloves you folk would recommend? — TL, Tim

Response:

Jo and I arrived at The East Outlet, Kennebec River, about 2:30 on Friday afternoon.  It was  a beautiful late fall day, with promises of colder temperatures.

    ahh, louie my friend, pretty work.  what a life! yfitons wayno

Response:

Jo and I arrived at The East Outlet, Kennebec River, about 2:30 on Friday afternoon.  It was  a beautiful late fall day, with promises of colder temperatures.   I parked the rv within yards of the river, leveled it, and while Jo unpacked and made camp, I went fishing.   I fished the nice run at the old put-in spot ("stairs"), and fished up-stream for about an hour.  With two hits, two fish on, and none landed, but my hands freezing, I called it quits and returned to the warmth of the rv.  The river was running at 1700 cfs, just a little more than I like it, but the water was cold and the salmon had come up-river from Indian Pond.   After a dinner of grilled hamburgers and home-made baked beans (lots of brown sugar, maple syrup, and a little onion), we settled in and watched a movie. The wind had come up and the falling leaves on the roof made for a wonderful feeling.  We were warm, well fed, entertained, and the sounds of the river and wind added to the ambiance.  We could have used the furnace all night.  We should have used the furnace all night.  Instead, Jo cracked one of the bedroom windows about a half inch, and we settled in for sleep without heat.   Well, it was a two dog night and we only had one, Henry.  Jo got up about midnight and added a down comforter to our 3 blanket pile.  That’s when Henry joined us and promptly settled in under the comforter.  The wind got stronger and the rain started about 1 a.m., beating a cacophony of rhythm on the flat roof.  It was great sleeping. When I awoke, the rain had ended and it was cold.  After a hot breakfast I headed down-stream to my favorite run.   I tied on one of Bruiser’s little nymphs (size 22), and on the second cast I was into a fairly nice salmon.  After a short battle, he broke off.  It would be awhile before I had on another fish.  These flies that Bruiser tied have been very successful on Maine’s rivers.  At first I found it remarkable that such large fish could be brought to hand with such small hooks.   I doubt my parents tied/fished anything smaller than a size 16 back in the forties/fifties.  They would be surprised and happy to seem me catch such beautiful fish on such itty-bitty flies. After lunch and a nap I set up my Sage 6 weight to lob some streamers, and returned to the same run.  It was raining and cold, but I was snuggled under several layers of fleece and a good raincoat.  I had several hits, but no hook-ups.  (Peter:  I was using a variation of the fly I used on the Saugeen.)  When I noticed that I was the only one on the stream, no drift boats, and it was *very* cold and did I mention *snowing*, I headed back to the rv.  I love to fish, but there are limits.  It took a long time to thaw out my hands.  I wish they made a fishing glove that would keep your hands/fingers warm and still allow the dexterity needed to tie knots and control your line.  I use fingerless fleece gloves, and while they do give some protection from the cold even when wet, the tips of my old fingers just can not handle the exposure. I slept very well that night.  The snow turned back to hard rain, and lulled me to sleep.  This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold.  Earlier I said it would be awhile before I had on another fish

Question:

yep look at the forests in Alabama and you will see the great management of OUR forests that has robbed us and paid the timber industry. Pine trees

The majority of americans support being thinner, and yet the majority of americans are fatter than they should be.  That says something about the majority of americans.

Response:

Musty Ass has spoken.

Response:

\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

Yo. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in).

I’ve dipped in & out of this group a few times over the past 3 years or so, and have made and heard made the same comments as yours several times. Each time (as it will likely do now) the response will confirm that the majority of the people who actually POST in this group ENJOY it being a place where playground games are played. I think it’s just a combination of the topic not having as much objective discussion potential (there’s an argument right there), and that the outspoken people are, uh, outspoken. There’s another group called alt.flyfishing that I think was started to get away from this, but it is pretty pathetic when you have to giev up an entire newsgroup because the majority of posters (remember they do post!) want to talk about something else. And there’s me pontificating off-topic too. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Video, Audio, Print & the Web Washington DC & London

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. The majority of ROFF post is limited to relatively few people, let’s say some fifty "regulats". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most Roffians are American, some are Canadian or British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself  - who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on FF – the discussions on other subjects than FF are irrelevant, often annoying and sometimes impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which most of us have not.Though there are contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly fishermen it’s too bad that ROFF is so often abused with crap.(I must admit, however, that it can be amazing to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in). Well, my overall impression of ROFF is definitively a positive one – though I am well aware of the fact that many fly fishermen prefer to keep out of the heat, pick up the information they can use and leave it to that. If certain sunscribers would participate in a more diciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – FF being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FF know how, discussion on FF issues and establishing contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to FF (among other things) as long as I’m going strong!

Thank you Henk.  It’s always good to read a well reasoned message in this asylum.  I cannot speak for the group (well, o.k., I often DO, but they don’t like it), but I really do appreciate your insights……despite disagreeing with some of the particulars.      :) It is an accident of history that the majority of participants here are American and that the common language used is English.  There isn’t much that anyone can do about this.  However, as the vast majority of Americans are monolingual, it seems to me that you have us at something of a disadvantage in that you can harangue us, without comprehension on our part (let alone fear of retribution), in whatever your native language may be.  Not only will this allow you to have your say, and without contributing to what many see as unproductive flame wars but, if experience is any teacher, many of us will be stunned into a bemused silence. I grew up in a European household, albeit a transplanted one.  I have also studied a bit of history.  It is thus with complete confidence that I say I don’t believe contentiousness to be a peculiarly American trait.  If I read the books aright, various European, Africans, South Americans, Asians, and our friends in the antipodes have all crossed swords from time to time, both intramurally and internationally.  As appealing as the metaphor is though, it should be noted that what goes on here is, in fact, a bit less dramatic, not to mention downright traumatic, than outright warfare.  In truth, it is no different than what can be observed to this day in the marketplaces and other public fora of Istanbul, Seattle, Paris, Sao Paolo, Canberra, Beijing, and a thousand other places.  Moreover, as divisive as it all must seem, it is VERY important to remember that what has gone on here for years, and what continues to go on now, has had quite the opposite effect of what one might imagine. Even as I write these words plans are underway for several gatherings to take place in the near future.  These events will be attended by dozen of people who have already met and enjoyed one another’s company as a direct result of participation in this forum, and dozens more who have not yet had the pleasure but will undoubtedly, if the past is any guide, come away with pleasant memories and a strong desire to do it again.  To be sure, most of these claves have occurred on American soil and been attended mostly be Americans.  But this is to be expected given the demographics.  On the other hand, the first "official" European ROFFian clave is shortly to take place.  I’m sure we ALL hope that this sets a precedent which will bear fruit in the years to come.  Even more, I am also sure that virtually all of the regular participants here harbor some hope of attending such an event and meeting their European and other international friends; for, make no mistake about it, true friendships have been built here and continue to be, whatever the dots on the screen may suggest to the contrary. It is my sincere hope that I will be among the lucky ones to greet guests from another country at one of our gatherings here some day, AND be greeted in turn at one of theirs. Wolfgang

Response:

…….And there’s me pontificating off-topic too.

Well, if ya GOTTA be ironic, ya might as well do it self-consciously!   Wolfgang thanks for stopping in!

Response:

Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. ROFF post is limited to a small number of people, let’s say some fifty "regulars". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most of them are American, some are British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself – who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on fly-fishing topics – the discussions on other subjects than FFare not only very irrelevant and annoying but more often than not impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which we have not. Though there are a number of contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly-fishermen it’s a pity that this forum is so often abused. (I must admit, however, that, from a more or less scientific point of view, it is interesting to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who are not interested are not forced to read (and tempted to join in)! Well, my overall impression is definitely a positive one. If certain subscribers would participate in a more disciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – flyfishing being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FFknow-how, the discussion on FF issues and the establishing of contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to flyfishing (among other things) as long as I’m going strong! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear. And it would subject to at least some inaccurate reporting, as well. I don’t know how many folks have multiple server access, but at least some do (I have several), and so, although I only use the one, my client checks them all and therefore, it would "ring up" several "lurkers" as having checked ROFF when, in fact, it was a regular poster’s client simply doing its job. TC, R TL MC

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. Ari Ari & Gaelle Bert                                   +27 (0) 83 232 9903 & +27 (0) 83 236 5308 +27 (0) 11 443 9984 / +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                 www.troutfishing.co.za www.africanfishing.com Physical Address: 72 Swemmer Rd, Sunningdale, 2192 Postal Address: P.O.Box 79067, Senderwood, 2145, South Africa

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all.

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

Response:

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

And its damned uncomfortable, too. Kevin Or am I?

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

Now it’s all clear! How can he keep all those balls in the air? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all.

More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear. There are obviously a large number of lurkers and visitors though. I have received large amounts of e-mail from people who never post here, asking for advice etc, and mentioning something they saw on ROFF. Many do not want to post to a newsgroup, for whatever reason, but they seem happy enough to read them. TL MC

Response:

There are 5.  Most of us are really Wolfgang’s sock puppets.

And its damned uncomfortable, too.<   Not to mention the smell.   Harry he only uses "dirty sock" puppets.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any estimates. I personally know of only 3 South Africans. Just wondering’s’all. More or less impossible to tell.  The numbers also fluctuate considerably. I once heard an estimate that for every poster there may be up to ten lurkers. I have no idea if this is true. On some bulletin boards they have software to check how many people have visited etc, and on at least two I visit, the above estimate proved to be too low. Sometimes five or six people had posted, and over a hundred had read the messages without responding. It would probably be extremely difficult to do anything like this on ROFF, as newsgroups are propagated by various servers all over the globe. Finding out how many people visit the group on these servers, and collating such information, would be more or less impossible I fear.

And it would subject to at least some inaccurate reporting, as well. I don’t know how many folks have multiple server access, but at least some do (I have several), and so, although I only use the one, my client checks them all and therefore, it would "ring up" several "lurkers" as having checked ROFF when, in fact, it was a regular poster’s client simply doing its job. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -TL MC

Response:

Being one of those who read a number of discussions on ROFF in the past few months – without participating myself – I have a few remarks that might shine some light on this issue. The majority of ROFF post is limited to relatively few people, let’s say some fifty "regulats". Plus an additional number of posters who take part only occasionally. Most Roffians are American, some are Canadian or British, only quite a few are European or from other parts of the world. To Europeans like myself  - who master the English language well enough to comprehend the interesting discussions on FF – the discussions on other subjects than FF are irrelevant, often annoying and sometimes impossible to understand because they require a thorough and detailed insight in the American way of life, which most of us have not.Though there are contributors who have interesting and valuable information both for newbies and skilled fly fishermen it’s too bad that ROFF is so often abused with crap.(I must admit, however, that it can be amazing to observe how easily Americans cross swords and how they fight their verbal wars!) But why not deal with personal conflicts by e-mail so that Roffians who hate this stuff are not forced to read (and tempted to join in). Well, my overall impression of ROFF is definitively a positive one – though I am well aware of the fact that many fly fishermen prefer to keep out of the heat, pick up the information they can use and leave it to that. If certain sunscribers would participate in a more diciplined manner and focus on what should bring us together – FF being our core business for that matter – ROFF may offer an even more suitable forum in the exchange of FF know how, discussion on FF issues and establishing contacts between individual Roffians. I’m stepping in – still eager to learn – addicted to FF (among other things) as long as I’m going strong!

Response:

Question:

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

#1 pickup line…."hey, nice tooth". Natty

Response:

Thanks to all who have given their advice regarding my trip to somewhere in Maine in late June.  From what I have gleaned from your responses, I believe that I will have my best success on either the Rapid or the East outlet of Moosehead Lake. It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

Response:

Brooktrout22 writes: It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

Ed, Lakewood Camps is super.  You can go to The East Outlet and you’ll probably catch fish, but Lakewood’s food and atmosphere is tops.  Plus, I think the Rapid fishes better than the East Outlet, with less crowds.  You can *drive* to the East Outlet.   You can’t drive to Lakewood (it is gated).  A boat picks you up at South Arm.    "Outsiders" have to either boat or walk in, so it is less crowded than EO.    The only time I fish EO is in October when the crowds are nil and it is the only place you can still fish.  JMO, of course.  I will be at Lakewood in late June  (25 – 30) with my grandsons and could help you with the river.  Both rivers have their idiosyncrasies. Dave L.

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If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another?

Hard question. Tough choice. There are camps at the headwaters of the Outlet and also at Middledam on the Rapid. I can’t vouch for the outlet as I’ve never stayed there, but Lakewood camps are quite nice and they take good care of you. Plan on gaining weight if you stay there. Both rivers are fairly wild once you get downstream a bit. I expect that the ‘famous’ pools of each have their crowds, and both have plenty of water if you’re willing to walk a bit. Based on my limited fishing of the Rapid my opinion is that the outlet has more large fish, but you will catch more fish at the Rapid and the Rapid also has the opportunity for you to catch a genuine wild brookie of prodigious size. To be fair to the outlet there are some very large brookies there as well, but it’s reputation is that of a salmon river, not a brook trout river. I once even caught a fairly skinny toque (Lake Trout) in the outlet as well that fought about as hard as 2 foot stick. late June is prime time on both rivers, the outlet will run more to generic caddis and stonefly hatches, with a few selected mayflies mixed in. The Rapid is rumored to have a fairly substantial Alder fly hatch in late June. I expect to day trip up for some of that action this summer. You didn’t say if you were interested in a guide. On the east outlet there are a couple of guide services that will run the entire river in a drift boat, something I highly recommend. I believe that the Rapid tends more to a wading experience with the exception of Pond in the River. This is not to suggest that the outlet isn’t wadable, it is, but it has a series of fairly large and deep pools that cannot be completely covered while wading. The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood (I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok, I work all night….everyone join in now:-)) and to easily visit the Roach and with a 2 hour drive and a couple of paper company gates, the West Branch. Or head north 30-40 mins and fish the Moose River where it dumps into Moosehead Lake. Lakewood will offer you a nice cabin, with lights and showers, incredible food (plan on gaining weight) and an easy walk to the fishing beginning at Middle Dam. Flyfish

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Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June. Brooktrout

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The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood

LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

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Joe Fleischman writes: The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

Hey, the pizza parlor in beautiful downtown Greenvile stays open until 11 pm – Dave

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Caviasco writes: Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June.

I’ll be the old guy with two tall teenage boys. Dave LaCourse

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Caviasco;   Can’t go wrong with either choice. My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.    Most of the guys staying there were in the dining area–while–as a "hard-core"–I was eating a sandwich out on the Rapid.   By staying at camps on the East Outlet I find I can arrange my meal schedule to suit  my needs–around the best fishing times. That’s the only complaint I had about Lakewood. Great camps–great people–great fishing. You’ll have a wonderful time.    Dave M

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Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.

Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course.   Few know about it. Dave L.

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Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave… Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening. Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it. Dave L.

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Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it.

The other thing you can do is cheat back the show-up time a bit. I spent my time at Lakewood trying to figure out what the *latest* possible time was that I could show up for meals and not lose out. I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave. –Steve

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Dave B. writes: Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave…

Well, I would have, but I figured an intimate dinner by candle light  with Paul, Dave, and Dave  would have been too much for you.  <g   What Dave M. says has some merit, but if you eat at 6:30, you can be back on the river by 7.  I’ve done it myself many times.  Or, you can get your big streamers and a 6 or 7 weight and go to the dam and chuck for big brookies/salmon.  I took a 4 pound brookie on a green ghost last September at the dam after dinner. Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-)

If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

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If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Ya know, now that I think of it, I lived in Millinocket for 2 years and never once went into "La Casa", starting to wonder if I was sick at the time . Of course what looks great to a lumberjack after a week in a tiny trailer somewhere out off the Golden road might not be up to my exacting standards. For the out of staters, also affectionately called flatlanders, T2R9 is township 2 range 9, otherwise known as an ‘unincorporated township’ meaning most likely no one lives there except the critters, there is no local government, no local taxes except at the county and state level. Almost heaven except for the (usually) exceptionally long drive to anywhere that has gas, food, entertainment etc. In the case of La Casa, the adult entertainment megacenter of Penobscot County, it’s wedged right between East Millinocket and Millinocket. Imagine the chagrin when the town counsel of East Millinocket discovered that La Casa was NOT located in the town thereof and was therefore not subject to their attempt to zone it out of existence (true story). Flyfish

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LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

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Zimbo writes: I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave.

Can’t be done.  Will never be done.  That’s why he’s the official coffee maker whenever he’s around.  That’s all we let him do, though.  Coffee, just coffee……good too… Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

<g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g   Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch. <g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Yeah, but do them girlys do back massages?  In the water? Frank (oh,the pain!) Church

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Question:

Can anyone recommend a fly guide for bonefishing? We have trip planed  for Feb. I know other Bahama areas but Harbour is new to us.  Thanks in advance Harrison Hubard

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Can anyone recommend a fly guide for bonefishing? We have trip planed  for Feb. I know other Bahama areas but Harbour is new to us. Thanks in advance Harrison Hubard

You might try: www.romorabay.com (Harbour) www.dunmorebeach.com (Harbour) www.bahamasvg.com (Eleuthera/Harbour) www.bahamasonline (Same) Also, when you get there, try a place (bar) called Gustaf’s or Gusty’s if it is still there – for land-based fun, not fishing, although…. HTH? R

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Question:

I’ll be going to Thompson Falls Montana within the nex t two weeks to pilot a logging helicopter.  We usually work from 5:30 am until about 3:00 PM, depending upon the winds.  This leaves me a lot of time to fly fish. Does anyone know a good place to fish for flies in and around Thompson Falls Montana? Mike

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 Does anyone know a good place to fish for flies in and around Thompson Falls Montana? Mike

just build up a good body sweat and stand in the woods just about anywhere, and you’ll catch plenty of flies.  don’t believe that old honey/vinegar story. <G jeff (lord of the flies)

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I’m heading out to SW Montana and Idaho in hopes of finding things in much better shape than the news has let on.  We’re planning on spending a few days in Yellowstone and then out to Henrys Fork.  I haven’t seen any fishing reports – anyone know how the fishing has been in that area?  Any information is appreciated. Thanks Scott

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fished the missouri today. big browns! it is open we think all is well. there were lots of fires this summer that got in the way. check out the little blackfoot. primo west throat cut throat territory. littleblackfootriverretreat.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Water temperatures are fine on our side of the divide (high 50’s) and the rivers are NOT closed (except maybe the Missouri, haven’t heard whether they reopened that one or not). We have had cool weather and decent rain. The governor did lift the restrictions but we are still at level IV, which means NO campfires, stoves, etc. except in developed designated campgrounds. With more rain that will get better. Fishing should be fantastic although everybody and his uncle will be out there now that we can fish again (after a month of NO FISH). Have fun. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022 I’m heading out to SW Montana and Idaho in hopes of finding things in much better shape than the news has let on.  We’re planning on spending a few days in Yellowstone and then out to Henrys Fork.  I haven’t seen any fishing reports – anyone know how the fishing has been in that area?  Any information is appreciated. Thanks Scott Montana opened a lot of closed land today. Some areas..Beaverhead County I believe are still closed. As for the rivers…everyone I have seen, except the Madison, are painfully low and as far as I know closed to fishing.  Even if they are open I would not fish them. We need more water, but more importantly we need cooler water temps. and that is happening…slowly.  The Madison was fishing just great last week.  Water temps. around 58-59 degrees…flow is near normal.  I heard the Beaverhead was looking good but very crowded…also heard the Henry’s Fork is fishing well.

Brian good to hear the water temps have dropped and the rivers ARE open.  A buddy of mne was doing some business out toward Superior so he checked out the river along the frontage road…he said it was boiling!  The cool weather and overcast skies sure help alot. Maybe this weekend I forget about selling trees and shrubs and head for the river!

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Water temperatures are fine on our side of the divide (high 50’s) and the rivers are NOT closed (except maybe the Missouri, haven’t heard whether they reopened that one or not). We have had cool weather and decent rain. The governor did lift the restrictions but we are still at level IV, which means NO campfires, stoves, etc. except in developed designated campgrounds. With more rain that will get better. Fishing should be fantastic although everybody and his uncle will be out there now that we can fish again (after a month of NO FISH). Have fun. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m heading out to SW Montana and Idaho in hopes of finding things in much better shape than the news has let on.  We’re planning on spending a few days in Yellowstone and then out to Henrys Fork.  I haven’t seen any fishing reports – anyone know how the fishing has been in that area?  Any information is appreciated. Thanks Scott Montana opened a lot of closed land today. Some areas..Beaverhead County I believe are still closed. As for the rivers…everyone I have seen, except the Madison, are painfully low and as far as I know closed to fishing.  Even if they are open I would not fish them. We need more water, but more importantly we need cooler water temps. and that is happening…slowly.  The Madison was fishing just great last week.  Water temps. around 58-59 degrees…flow is near normal.  I heard the Beaverhead was looking good but very crowded…also heard the Henry’s Fork is fishing well.

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I’m heading out to SW Montana and Idaho in hopes of finding things in much better shape than the news has let on.  We’re planning on spending a few days in Yellowstone and then out to Henrys Fork.  I haven’t seen any fishing reports – anyone know how the fishing has been in that area?  Any information is appreciated. Thanks Scott

Montana opened a lot of closed land today. Some areas..Beaverhead County I believe are still closed. As for the rivers…everyone I have seen, except the Madison, are painfully low and as far as I know closed to fishing.  Even if they are open I would not fish them. We need more water, but more importantly we need cooler water temps. and that is happening…slowly.  The Madison was fishing just great last week.  Water temps. around 58-59 degrees…flow is near normal.  I heard the Beaverhead was looking good but very crowded…also heard the Henry’s Fork is fishing well.

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Question:

****** Hello I am a high school student that is thinking about a physics prodject on the physics of fly fishing.  This can include casting and the effects of drag and water currents.  Are there any book or articles on the subject?  Any help would be appriciated.  Oh, do certain flies work better on small North Eastern streams during the fall. ****** In my opinion, you probably do not have the mathematical background to do the  projects you are suggesting.  Let me make a suggestion that would be easier to  do and would produce useful results.  Test various leader materials. Most leader testing is done with static testing.  You pull until the leader  breaks.  The breaking force is measured and that is it.  Very little  information is available on how much energy it takes to break the leader.  This can be measured by droping weights to shock the leader.  The effects of  knots has been tested, but I have no idea on how reproducible that is.  The  effect of mosture on the strength of leader is probable not well known.  How  does abrasion affect the strength?  All these are easier projects to carry out  and of interest to fishermen.  Your results may even find a publisher in a  magazine. William Buchman

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Hello I am a high school student that is thinking about a physics prodject on the physics of fly fishing.  This can include casting and the effects of drag and water currents.  Are there any book or articles on the subject?  Any help would be appriciated.  Oh, do certain flies work better on small North Eastern streams during the fall. Thanks, Ian

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Question:

I’ll be in Georgia for 6 days (visiting in-laws…) and would love an excuse to get out for a spell. They live near Columbus, but I generally fish only in Eastern Sierra (Northern California). Any suggestions? A good fly shop to call? Thanks! — Fish more, Fret less…

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I’ll be in Georgia for 6 days (visiting in-laws…)

In that part of Georgia you’ll only find warmwater fishing. Callway Gardens at Pine Mountain offers some great float tube fishing for large bream and bass. If you can get up to Atlanta, we have the Hooch; and if you have time to get into the mountains, there are too many opportunities to list here. Let me know more about your plans — maybe I can be of more assistance. — Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Question:

Hi I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at Thanks for the help. Jamie Hart

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I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at

I need same type of info.  I e-mailed this type of request to TU national over a month ago and haven’t heard anything from them. Please post a reply to the Newsgroup. Tight Lines, Gerry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at Thanks for the help. Jamie Hart  Get a life!!!!

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