Question:

Try Hookhack.com 4beader

Response:

I have some roe trout if your interested sorry don’t know any  web sites on the subject but I sure with the right "key words" must be a few thousand out there some where.  I have some formulas from some very old books if your interested. Good luck — Fly fishing is the most fun you can have … standing up.   Greg

Response:

Question:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Reflexive schooling response?

Response:

Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. Reflexive schooling response?

Exactly.  Schooling is a behavior that has many rewards.  Thus, fish that school have survived to pass on the tendency to school. Trout are Darwinian.

Response:

I’ve seen spawners do that.  Lots of times there will be two males hanging around a female.  Of course I’ve only caught spawners by accident bruce h

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J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.

(snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Response:

I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth.

Was in the local shop last week listening to the owner’s stories about bonefishing in Abacos.   His boat was in the midst of a large school of bones, and large sharks were beginning to enter the school and snap off hooked fish.   He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey. Joe F.

Response:

He claims (and this is fishing shop talk) that if he watched his hooked fish and a shark came near, he could give the fish enough line to swim normally, and the shark would swim past and search other prey.

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -J. Butler writes: I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows. (snip)   Land locked salmon and brook trout display the same behavior.  My theory:  the trout on the hook emits a distress signal of some sort and the other trout are there to pick up anything regurgitated.  I have seen bigger trout actually attack the hooked trout.  In waters that contain trout and pike, it is not unusual for a pike to come up and take the entire trout in its mouth. Dave

Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet. Have also seen smallmouth feed on minnows regurgitated by a hooked fish. G.Cleveland

Response:

Zimbo writes: I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

But, I have seen small fish follow the bigger hooked fish.  I had on a 20 inch brook trout and had 12 – 15 inch trout following its every move.  (????) Dave

Response:

George Cleveland writes: Two years ago I was fishing the Thompson R. in N.W. Montana. While bringing in a small rainbow I had a bull trout (I assume) grab said fish and drop down to the stream bottom. Couldn’t budge him and he wouldnt let go. Eventually had to bust the 5x tippet.

I got into a large bull trout on the East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon River.  The guide got a "glimpse" of him as he raced by and went to the bottom of a fairly deep pool.  I too could not budge him and had to break the 5X FC . It is illegal to intentionally fish for the bull in Idaho.  It is a protected species.   I’ve caught Dolly Vardens on the Aleutians in Alaska, but they were’nt anywhere near as mean as the ones I saw in Idaho! Dave

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch.

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

i believe the flee response of fish is often similar enough to a feeding response (especially for saltwater species)… also, i think some of it might be curiousity…. like wondering why the hooked fish is behaving so strangly… plus, often hooked fish will regurgitate food items… so a fish could be following picking off bits of food.  without being a fish it’s always gonna be guesses about the exact reason for their behavior. chris

Response:

 Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?

I reckon they just see a mate in distress and attck him while he’s down. One less fish to have to fight about over food & sexual partners. But then that’s just what zoology drummed into me for years and years. They probably got it wrong. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

I have observed this with bass and hooked bluegill on several occasions. My own interpretation is that the big fish is looking for a wounded or ailing little fish to eat rather than trying to track down a healthy one, the latter being much harder to catch. No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too.

I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity. It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.  All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

No doubt about that.  But I imagined the OP was talking about fish the same size swimming with the hooked one.  I’m kind of curious about that too. I’ve seen this more than once and put it down to this: Response to stress signals put out by hooked fish, – to make a meal out of the hooked fish – to eat anything regurgitated – to eat the fly/lure if is visible – and perhaps, curiosity.

Seems like a complete list to me. I can’t remember seeing this with trout. Maybe with stockers? It is more common with some other fishes. I’ve noticed it particularly with Smallmouth. The fish following generally appear VERY agitated. Smallmouth have a tendency to regurgitate when hooked.   It is unquestionably not top "help out" as fish do not have the brain capacity for altruism.   All their responses are evolved around, eat, avoid being eaten, and procreation.

There are a few others. For example, seeking a suitable temperature sometimes takes precedence over everything else. Willi

Response:

Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?

That’s what my hypothesis is. This has happened to me numerous times. One time I had one hooked that got away, as soon as he swam off another took the hook. It was very cool to see. Was the trout you caught a rainbow? It seems to me RB’s exhibit this behaviour more than others. I might be mistaken though. Jim

Response:

I noticed when I hooked a trout in a small stream that as it ran it was flanked on either side by two of its fellows.  They did not follow just away from me, by towards me and in an arc the caught one swam.  Has anyone else observed other fish accompanying a caught one?  Does anyone have an hypothesis as to why other fish would accompany a caught one?  Could the accompanying fish been unaware the other had been caught and just exhibit schooling behavior?  Could the accompaning fish been aware their caught fellow was in distress and aiding it in some way?  Could the fellows simply have accompanied the one they thought had found a meal and tried to chase the same source of food without seeing it?  Did they simply respond to the caught one’s flight and accompany it away from danger?  Too bad I wasn’t fishing a dropper to pick up one of its mates!

Response:

Question:

Hello: Thought I might try some  [Whitlock] Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymphs,  which was suggested. Can’t seem to find any listed among my 2000 cat. collection. Anybody know of any mail order cat’s that offer them? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Cabela’s Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hello: Thought I might try some  [Whitlock] Red Fox Squirrel-Hair Nymphs,  which was suggested. Can’t seem to find any listed among my 2000 cat. collection. Anybody know of any mail order cat’s that offer them? Thanks, Bob

Also try: KBE FLYFISHING COMPANY www.flyfishingflies.com Joel Axelrad

Response:

Question:

Aye Chris Richer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So lets do it, henceforth no replies to obvious political rants or other similar inflammatory trolls. All agreed say "aye". This is not moderation or control, just good sense and self defence. You are right, otherwise ROFF will be ruined. Mike Connor

Response:

sniped

Thanks for the spelling lesson. At some point you agreed that you were guilty of the very act that you are trying to correct. Yes, in other words you saw the shit, and you went up to it and firmly planted your two feet right in the middle. Yes, am I correct here? I too, saw the same shit, and it had a foul smell, so I walked around it and now it’s on your boots and not mine. It is strange how we choose our pathways in life. I’m not perfect mind you. This is the third winter that I’ve hung here and every winter it is the same thing. Tempers start getting hot and the rhetoric gets heated on one or more issues. You and I are blessed the we have mild winters compared to some of the others in the group. Even the lack of real sunshine can have a dreary effect on the soul. The best way to avoid a fight is not to be there in the first. I choose to have some distance. At least my boots stay cleaner for longer periods. Well, did my spelling improve?   — Doug Knight                            metalfab<atpacbell.net Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

        i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.         can we do this? wayno

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

  It must be the water here in NC. Good stuff. Andy, where do you fish? If you’re ever up this way….get in touch. –Walt

Response:

HEAR HEAR! Wayne To fish is human…To release divine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this? wayno

Response:

snip< when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.

This is truly one of the shortcomings of the written word.   A good natured jibe at a fellow fisherman across a campfire can be a subject of great mirth and camraderie; but as we’ve seen in this medium, the same remark in lifeless print can be a grievous insult.   We all would do well to twice read what we’ve written before posting it. more good stuff snipped< i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose. can we do this?

Wayno is right on here.   We all have genuine personal opinions on social and political issues which directly influence our fly fishing lives, and I agree that these subjects are valid topics of discussion here.   Trolling for an argument, however, has been breeding a level of dishonesty here that I too have found disturbing.   We have no faces here, only our opinions and advice.   If one trolls for a response by posting opinions that do not truly represent who they are, how are we to get to know them?   How are we to trust their opinions on other subjects?   Trolling is dishonest and it breeds mistrust.   It lowers my estimation of the perpetrator.   If you have an opinion, I’d love to hear it and discuss it with you, but don’t yank my chain and waste my time for your own amusement. Many posters here seem to know others personally.  Most of us, however, do not have that honor, and must get to know you through what you post.   Wayno is right that we waste a lot of energy ranting & trolling.   This NG, more than any other I’ve read, seems to be populated by real people, my kind of people, people I wouldn’t mind sharing a bottle with.   We spend too muct time wasting that. Joe

Response:

Please, Mr. Harrison, restrain yourself. Such commentary, though warranted, accurate, and constructive, has a downside. The applause that you keep commanding of us keeps our hands too busy to type and keeps waking the baby! — Andy "Barely Older than Gink" Engle Charlotte, NC

Yep.  Look at it this way:  if you were in your favorite flyfishing shop, standing around with about 10 folks, what topics would you want to bullship about, and how would talk about those topics.  I sure as hell wouldn’t bring up politics or religion, and if I was discussing logging’s impact on the fishery  I wouldn’t be suggesting that we go out and spike some trees for an afternoon’s entertainment. Mark Faulkner

Response:

i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this?

I doubt it.  There will always be disagreements, we just have to learn how to discuss such topics in a non face-to-face medium without turning the issue into personal attacks.  There are such vast differences between posters here in age, education level, location, work, background that thinking that you can stop disagreements is not realistic.   Later,      - Ken

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose. can we do this? I doubt it.  There will always be disagreements, we just have to learn how to discuss such topics in a non face-to-face medium without turning the issue into personal attacks.  There are such vast differences between posters here in age, education level, location, work, background that thinking that you can stop disagreements is not realistic. Later,     – Ken

    actually, kj, that’s not my point.  i know we can’t avoid "disagreements"; in fact, "disagreements", including heated ones, can be quite entertaining and educational.  it’s just that there are a very few (again, politics and religion, specifically) that seem to engender vicious diatribes, or quickly dissolve into mindless personal quibbles.  therefore, i propose to simply not create or contribute to threads containing subject matter of this nature. wayno

Response:

Joe writes replying to Wayno: <<Wayno is right on here.   We all have genuine personal opinions on social and political issues which directly influence our fly fishing lives, and I agree that these subjects are valid topics of discussion here.   Trolling for an argument, however, has been breeding a level of dishonesty here that (more good stuff snipped) I agree.  I could never understand why someone would troll.  Hell, it sure ain’t fly fishing.  To "pull someones chain", cause them embarass- ment because they sincerely answered a "troll", is not the sign of a true sportsman.  I have more than contributed my fair share of political rhetoric on these pages, but I don’t think I have ever trolled. Sitting around a campfire teasing and trolling is a lot different than doing it online. Dave LaCourse

Response:

NO MORE WHINING, PLEASE!    (hehe) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.    can we do this? wayno

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         i have always thought that the only subjects that should truly be off limits on roff are politics and religion.  when statements are made without the benefit of face to face human contact, they become, literally, inhuman.  the nuances of human interaction disappear in this medium, and friends quickly become strangers as the lifeless letters are pounded onto these screens.  egos go unchecked as the power to say what you please as often as you wish is unlimited by the power of personal confrontation.  in short, if we are to continue to enjoy the wonders of this medium and, especially, of this most excellent group of posters here at roff, i regretfully believe that we should make an effort at self-moderation.  i am afraid that if we don’t voluntarily abstain from intiating or engaging in socio-political rants or trolls we are going to ruin this place.  the positive energy available here is too valuable to lose.         can we do this? wayno

refrain from doing so any more. dumb bastards. George ‘kill the world for a job: Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

 This is truly one of the shortcomings of the written word.   A good natured jibe at a fellow fisherman across a campfire can be a subject of great mirth and camraderie; but as we’ve seen in this medium, the same remark in lifeless print can be a grievous insult.   We all would do well to twice read what we’ve written before posting it.

Response:

Yep.  Look at it this way:  if you were in your favorite flyfishing shop, standing around with about 10 folks, what topics would you want to bullship about, and how would talk about those topics.  I sure as hell wouldn’t bring up politics or religion, and if I was discussing logging’s impact on the fishery  I wouldn’t be suggesting that we go out and spike some trees for an afternoon’s entertainment. Mark Faulkner

guessing and our remaining Virgin Forests would be saved for the children of the future?  We are past reality regarding when forests are endangered.  It is now time to stop the carnage.  What does it take to do it?  Trees without spikes for life in them? New bumper sticker:  "TREES!  Spiked for life!" not – "Chainsaw Employment Forever" —

Question:

What size tippet are you using, and what knot are you using to tie on your fly?  I fish for bass and panfish with a 5X tippet and do fine (bluegill up to maybe 6 inches, bass to about 15 inches).  Used to lose a lot of flies before I switched from an improved clinch knot to a Duncan loop/Uniknot – since then I haven’t had problems with losing flies.  Hope this helps. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Hi Sky, I set the drag just heavy enough to keep the reel from back lashing or over running when I quickly pull some line off the reel. I then add more drag or resistance with my fingers on the fly line or use the rim control drag. I would then be sure that you have the right size tippet to match your fly size. Make sure that your leader/tippet is fresh and your knots are good. For #10, 12 & 14 dries I would use 5x tippet. For #16, 18 & 20 I would use 6x tippet.(7x later) For #8, 10 & 12 wet flies and nymphs I would use 3x tippet. For #14, 16 & 18 wet flies and nymphs I would use 4x tippet.(5x later) This is a chart I give to anglers that are just getting started. It is just for a rough guide and to get them thinking about using different size tippets with different size flies. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Breakoffs are the result of both reel drag and rod flex at the tip. A slower rod ie more flexible acts as a shock absorber to the fishes sudden movements and cushions the leader and light tippet. The drag is for breaking the fish’s runs (longer distance moves). I don’t know many fisherman that can use the old palm drag technique without just a little too much pressure just for a split secound that gives the fish your fly. Many reels have good drags like Lamson and Abel (and Cortland etc for the cheaper ones) I like the Bauer and other large arbor reels because their drag is the smoothest and most adjustable. I also have a Rhyle (sp?) which is resonably expensive and the drag is terrible. You keep having to reset it with a fish on. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish. Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

You’ll probably get  a response from TimW, Halfordian Golfer on this one… He’s the one that usually works in drag in this NG…. #:)#

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

Response:

I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice?

You are obviously holding harder than you need. Have a look at books on Pennsylvania fly fishing for trout, where tiny flies require light leaders, e.g. Ed Koch’s Fishing the Midge (1972).  There is a consensus there that even with big fish (say 5 lb.) the rod and guides provide about as much drag as the tippet can endure, depending on how high up you point the rod and how much the rod bends.  For this fishing, reel drag is minimal, i.e. just enough to prevent overrun. I.e. drag depends on the bend of the rod more than the resistance of the reel.  You even see this on salmon rivers where fish run 20 lb.  Reel drag setting is secondary to making the bend of the rod tire out the hooked fish. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Help, I am an intermediate fly fisherman who is used to catching pan fish.  Lately I have been doing a little better but am having trouble sacrificing my fly  to the God of fish.  Is there a good techniqe out there for running drag on a fairly light rig when catching a big fish.  I have been using the palm of my right hand to self adjust the drag once the fish is on but seem to have a heavy touch.  Any advice? thanks.

A top quality fly reel will have an excellent, working drag.  I use Penn International reels…great drag, great reel, expensive but worth it if you hook lots of big fish. — Don Jordan "The Real Indiana Jones" http://realindy.com

Response:

Question:

Dear flyfisher, I am building a free-ware database on behalve of the mail list. Allthough there is lot’s of support from the group, it is not easy to get original pictures. Therefore I need somebody who is willing to make pictures of very nice hand-tied flies and send me the digitized pictures. Reward: very high quality hand-tied flies, and your name mentioned in the database. Erik Bosters

Response:

I am building a free-ware database on behalve of the mail list. Allthough there is lot’s of support from the group, it is not easy to get original pictures.

 I’ll agree it’s not easy. But here’s how I do it: 35mm camera with bellows and tripod, 200mm lense This way you can completely fill a 35mm slide with a #20 nymph, or back off and shoot a 4" long streamer. Build a light tent with translucent, synthetic fabric, like "gloryosa cloth" sold at women’s fabric store. Use a medium blue background, with construction paper or whatever. Illuminate the tent with two 500 watt blue bulbs, to balance with exterior film, of whatever speed. The slower the sharper. Use the light meter for a starting point, but bracket each shot 1 stop in each direction (three exposures per shot). Use f22 or f32 for maximum depth of field. Use the timer, as your exposures will be long. —  * Center for Computational Biology  * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

Response:

I’ll agree it’s not easy. But here’s how I do it: 35mm camera with bellows and tripod, 200mm lense This way you can completely fill a 35mm slide with a #20 nymph, or back off and shoot a 4" long streamer.

[deleted] I absolutely concede to you expertise on this subject, Sandy,  but there is one observation I’d like to make. On photographing fishing flies. The odd thing about these photographs is that the critical component seems to be not necessarily in quality of photograph for enlargement.  It seems like when you enlarge anyones flies, the bigger they get, the more defects you notice…which distracts from the quality of the photograph in a way that is really unique to this subject, I feel. Once you start noticing thread overlaps in the head and nicks in materials and stuff, the quality of the photgraph becomes secondary. I recently (foolishly) purchased (I’m not sure of the exact title…) "The Flies of the Umpqua Feather Merchants" which has 1100 color photographs in it.   I have studied it intently.   It’s bizarre to see an Umpqua tied #20 AK Best quill that looks like *complete* crap in the (whatever size they are) photographs.   The quality of the photo is there, but the fly itself [when enlarged] doesn’t cut it. In other endeavours, like in the Macrophotography of the naturals themselves, the quality of the photo is paramount and as you get up in the enlargement range, the beauty of natures work is more revealed.   As you get up in the enlargment range of an imitation, the ugliness of mans hand becomes more revealed. Thus, I posit that a much less expensive 35SLR/80mm with a cheap macro filter will suffice quite nicely for JPG bound fly images providing the lighting, exposure and focus are reasonable.   It might be interesting to compare notes in the images group. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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  Thus, I posit that a much less expensive 35SLR/80mm with a cheap macro   filter will suffice quite nicely for JPG bound fly images providing the   lighting, exposure and focus are reasonable.   It might be interesting to   compare notes in the images group.   —   TimW

Or, I’d be happy to host these images on my web site.  Many of us can’t access the binaries groups.  I too am curious. I have had very limited success taking pictures of flies, and it is not because of a lack of equipment… For this experiment, I’d suggest the GIF format for uniform and virtually lossless compression. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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The problem with GIF is it is limited in its color palette.  JPG has an unlimited color palette so reproduced most photographs better.  Also when scanning for publication on the web it is necessary to reduce the resolution of the scan so the resulting image is reasonable to download so lossless compression  is not nearly as important as reproducing the entire color range of the object being photographed. Also for scanning for the web it is really not important whether the image is a slide or a print.  A print will work just as well because of the lower resolution of the scan.  Those of us with some experience in reproducing photos for print media have had to relearn some things when it comes to the web.  It is a good idea to use a single-color, non-textured background in the photographs because that type of background compresses best without loss of detail (there is no detail to lose). With all the digital cameras available I still think that 35mm is the way to go for most macro shots.  I have tried using a macro digital camera, a digitizer attached to a macro-capable video camera and direct scans of the flies.  Film still works best at this point. Having said all that I am also still in the process of getting the quality of image I need for fly photos on my own site.  A professional fly-tyer and photographer has kindly sent me some excellent quality scans of some of the flies.  These have a textured background which looks stunning at full resolution but compression isn’t as good as it could be and the file sizes tend to be a little larger than I would like.  His background is also in print where image quality and sharpness is everything and the size of a file doesn’t matter.  He has agreed to try a solid background on his next shoot to compare file sizes and resolution at each size. — — Sherman www.flyfishingjournal.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Thus, I posit that a much less expensive 35SLR/80mm with a cheap macro   filter will suffice quite nicely for JPG bound fly images providing the   lighting, exposure and focus are reasonable.   It might be interesting to   compare notes in the images group.   —   TimW Or, I’d be happy to host these images on my web site.  Many of us can’t access the binaries groups.  I too am curious. I have had very limited success taking pictures of flies, and it is not because of a lack of equipment… For this experiment, I’d suggest the GIF format for uniform and virtually lossless compression. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.

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Sherman, Thanks for the information, does taking slide pictures with a regular 35MM and sending the film to a developer like Wolf  Camera and Video at http\www.wolfcamera.com give a satisfactory result? — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The problem with GIF is it is limited in its color palette.  JPG has an unlimited color palette so reproduced most photographs better.  Also when scanning for publication on the web it is necessary to reduce the resolution of the scan so the resulting image is reasonable to download so lossless compression  is not nearly as important as reproducing the entire color range of the object being photographed. Also for scanning for the web it is really not important whether the image is a slide or a print.  A print will work just as well because of the lower resolution of the scan.  Those of us with some experience in reproducing photos for print media have had to relearn some things when it comes to the web.  It is a good idea to use a single-color, non-textured background in the photographs because that type of background compresses best without loss of detail (there is no detail to lose). With all the digital cameras available I still think that 35mm is the way to go for most macro shots.  I have tried using a macro digital camera, a digitizer attached to a macro-capable video camera and direct scans of the flies.  Film still works best at this point. Having said all that I am also still in the process of getting the quality of image I need for fly photos on my own site.  A professional fly-tyer and photographer has kindly sent me some excellent quality scans of some of the flies.  These have a textured background which looks stunning at full resolution but compression isn’t as good as it could be and the file sizes tend to be a little larger than I would like.  His background is also in print where image quality and sharpness is everything and the size of a file doesn’t matter.  He has agreed to try a solid background on his next shoot to compare file sizes and resolution at each size. — — Sherman

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  The problem with GIF is it is limited in its color palette.  JPG has an   unlimited color palette so reproduced most photographs better.  

and the problem with jpg is that most all of the software packages do the compression differently for a given compression ratio. if the goal is to compare photo methods, then eliminating the variable of the compression routine is desirable – THAT’s why I suggest GIF. As for slides vs/ prints… comparing a scan of a slide to a scan of a print introduces all sorts of additional variables. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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I’ve seen photos of actual insects taken using two flash guns of decent power (guide N0 100) one either side of the lens, fired simultaneously, with the camera and flash guns mounted on a kind of T structure all fired simultaneously by cable release.

For more info on a similar device, see John Shaw’s book – Closeups In Nature (a photographer’s guide to techniques in the field). I built one of his "butterfly brackets", as he calls it, and it works quite well. You can hand hold this affair, shoot excellent closeups of moving insect, and get sharp, well exposed photos. You can find the book inphoto  pro shops or catalog supply houses- usually. From the minute we’re born we all start dying;some of us just take longer than others. Me? I’ve been dragging my feet, but it doesn’t seem to help much.

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You can hand hold this affair, shoot excellent closeups of moving insect, and get sharp, well exposed photos.

Apparently the trick is (i.e. with live insects at least) to point your rig at the beast then move in slowly towards it, and when the image becomes sharp, fire!  The flash exposure will "stop" movement.  This way you do not have to hunt for the subject in the viewfinder – it would have probably gone anyway! This technique should work just as well for artificial flies, and they won’t fly away – unless your tying is particulary lifelike Regards, — Bill

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Apparently the trick is (i.e. with live insects at least) to point your rig at the beast then move in slowly towards it, and when the image becomes sharp, fire!  The flash exposure will "stop" movement.  This way you do not have to hunt for the subject in the viewfinder – it would have probably gone anyway!

That’s pretty much the way it works. You’ll find you need to stop down to at least  f-16 – f-22 at these ranges assuming relatively slow film, say 50 to 100 ASA. That will give you "pretty good" depth of field, depending on your lens, and the output of your flash. Best to shoot a test roll first, write down your exposures and then select the f-stop that gives you the result you’re looking for. This technique should work just as well for artificial flies, and they won’t fly away – unless your tying is particulary lifelike

Exactly. From the minute we’re born we all start dying;some of us just take longer than others. Me? I’ve been dragging my feet, but it doesn’t seem to help much.

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se f22 or f32 for maximum depth of field.

Presumably this is the "camera" stop – the effective stop will be more like f64+, I forget the formula but I think the effective aperture is the lens to film distance divided by the diameter of the lens opening. Check this out as it may help you to calculate the correct exposure. I’ve seen photos of actual insects taken using two flash guns of decent power (guide N0 100) one either side of the lens, fired simultaneously, with the camera and flash guns mounted on a kind of T structure all fired simultaneously by cable release.  This makes the whole cinstruction more mobile – if mobility is needed. Regards, — Bill

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Question:

        Are they some belgian fly fishers in this group, I would like to talk with, about our experiences in the different rivers within and out the country.         Je voudrais

Question:

Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun?   Clinchknot

 probably not. — Marty Silva P.E.T.A (People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters) If people aren’t supposed to eat animals… then why are they made out of meat.

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Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun?    Clinchknot

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Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun?  

You may be fishing for the wrong fish. I won’t say that fish are particularly intelligent. But they do have a will to survive and thousands of years of genetic development to perpetuate their species. You may just be so successful that you have outgrown the resource and need to pick another diversion. You must be one awesome fishermen with several line records as well. If I were to call fish ‘dumb’ it would be a slam to myself as they regularly elude me somehow. Maybe I miss the pointof your question and it is more rhetorical. Are you by chance reflecting on the fact the EVEN THOUGH fish are dumb, you still have fun catching them. That I can not explain. Maybe a 12 step program would be helpful. I for one am not near ready to give it up. regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

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In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun? You may be fishing for the wrong fish. I won’t say that fish are particularly intelligent. But they do have a will to survive and thousands of years of genetic development to perpetuate their species. You may just be so successful that you have outgrown the resource and need to pick another diversion. You must be one awesome fishermen with several line records as well. If I were to call fish ‘dumb’ it would be a slam to myself as they regularly elude me somehow. Maybe I miss the pointof your question and it is more rhetorical. Are you by chance reflecting on the fact the EVEN THOUGH fish are dumb, you still have fun catching them. That I can not explain. Maybe a 12 step program would be helpful. I for one am not near ready to give it up.

I know that this is a flyfishing newsgroup but I can still recognize trolling when see it. John Fereira

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Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun?   Clinchknot

‘Cause I haven’t got  a prayer in hell of trickin’ the smart ones:)

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Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun?    Clinchknot         No.  Just can’t do it.  You either like it or you don’t.  It must be genetic.  You sound a little put off by such silly, trite behavior.  Get over it.  Nice troll. JE

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Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun? Clinchknot

I’m A Frayed Knot. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Very clever Moe. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone out there explain to me why trickin dumb fish is so much fun? Clinchknot I’m A Frayed Knot. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

My fisrt fly rod was (and still is) a St. Croix Imperial 4-piece 8/9 weight.  I think that this rod is one of best kept secrets in the fly fishing community.  It casts very well and I have used it for steelhead, medium saltwater, and bass.  I have have a couple of very experienced fishermen spontaneously comment "nice rod" after casting it (one of them was a guide who next showed me how to cast the entire line  without double hauling).         I recommend the 4-piece because it is easier to transport and comes with an aluminum tube.  I have since "upgraded" to a very fast rod although I have not yet decided that my more expensive rod is more pleasant to fish with.

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My fisrt fly rod was (and still is) a St. Croix Imperial 4-piece 8/9 weight.  I think that this rod is one of best kept secrets in the fly fishing community.  It casts very well and I have used it for steelhead, medium saltwater, and bass.  I have have a couple of very experienced fishermen spontaneously comment "nice rod" after casting it (one of them was a guide who next showed me how to cast the entire line  without double hauling).         I recommend the 4-piece because it is easier to transport and comes with an aluminum tube.  I have since "upgraded" to a very fast rod although I have not yet decided that my more expensive rod is more pleasant to fish with.

Right on Bert, St Croix makes a helluva rod for the money. I purchased last year the Imperial 4 pc 5/6 rod for my official travel rod. Spent all that money on top o’ the line rods only to discover I could have spent a fraction and had just as much fun! BTW, I have a Sage 4 piece, 6 wt RPL rod for sale if anyone is interested. $250, you pay the shipping. Excellent condition, aluminum tube. (too fast for me) — Frank Church Elkhart, IN

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Anyone have any feedback regarding this rod in 9"0", 6/7 wt?

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I think the Imperial rods are a great deal. The rod you are asking about is medium action and very smooth casting. —                    "One Fish is Worth a Thousand Lies"                             http://Flyfish.Com

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The first rod I ever bought.  I think St Croix has been making rods as long as anyone,many for sold under other brands like Orvis.  I will still us it on windy days over my Scott or Loomis.

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Yeah, I had one.   It broke in half on me landing a medium sized trout, and my fathers broke the same weekend.  Sunland sports in La Cananda, CA (point of purchase) sent them back and St. Croix replaced them.  Haven’t used them since.  Bought a Sage and am very happy.

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Question:

Will be traveling in the vicinity of Greeneville, TN the 3rd week of June.  Will be introducing by father-in-law to fly fishing and would appreciate some help in locating areas that might be productive.  We’ll be visiting from California and would be happy to sway info on local hot spots. Thanks in advance.

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TRY GATLINBURG AREA FOR SOME GREAT FLY FISHIND—GREENBRIAR AREA …CADES COVE….ELKMONT….HAD SOME GREAT HATCHES…GOOD FISHING!!!!!

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Yes, Elkmont is a good spot.  Caught some nice browns there on a delta wing caddis, with olive body.  Nice fish!   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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