Question:

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.

If the Outback is too small for you, look at the Forester.  It has more room in all ways, but still isn’t a gas hog or road-warrier. — David L. Johnson    __o   | I don’t believe you, you’ve got the whole damn thing all wrong.  _`(,_  | He’s not the kind you have to wind-up on Sundays.  –Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson   — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out. A 4 runner towed me out – for a case of beer.

20 PSI is generally too high. Try 15 or even 10 PSI next time and you can probably go anywhere. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

in rec.autos.4×4, Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot of scars to prove it – trying to get it out.

Down to 20psi? For sand try more like 5-8 psi…. I run 2-3 psi in the snow/sand. ~Brian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot

I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse. — Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Outback simply SUCK for beach riding. I almost lost mine in Kauai. Yes, I took the air down to 20psi and all that funky stuff. It doesn’t have a real 4×4 and only the wheel with least resistance spins. I know, I have a lot I thought those fancy modern "All Wheel Drive" systems are supposed to power the wheels that DO get traction. I guess I’ll stick with my old assumption, that AWD is good for cars on less-than-perfect roads / weather, and not much else. Maybe different AWD systems from different manufacturers are better or worse.

  There is a small difference between the AWD system on   cars like the Porsche Turbo, Audi S6, Lamborghini,   Porsche Cayenne, and the considerably less expensive   ones found on lesser vehicles.

Response:

I’ve driven my Jeep Wrangler on the NC outer banks beaches.  It’s actually pretty tough conditions getting over the dune trails.  I saw a Subaru getting pulled out of the deep sand – he was buried up to his frame, and two really big 4wd trucks were having trouble getting him out.  Depending on recent weather, you might have to drive quite a distance through the softest, driest sand you can imagine, with really deep tracks that require good clearance.  On the beach I see mostly 4WD trucks and "normal/large" size SUVs, not the small ones.  You need to lower your tire pressure to 15-10 psi.  Once you clear the really soft sand you can drive easily.  There’s nothing like the outer banks beaches – sometimes you can drive till you can barley see another vehicle, and have a mile of beach all to yourself.  Other times it’s like a parking lot of 4×4s.  Not sure why.  You can also ride a mountain bike along the hard sand at the water’s edge, but the sand and salt are really bad for the bike… Brad — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

This past April I had my GMC Sarfari AWD van on the beaches in Hatteras… deflate the air pressure in your tires to 20psi and off you go!!! Everything fits in, or, or behind the van. — Marty S. Baltimore, MD  USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

James, If I had the money to blow on a new car, I’d probably buy a Honda Element. This seems to meet all of your criteria, and is available in four wheel drive. We (wife and I) have considered buying one but have decided to wait a couple of years for a Hybrid gasoline/ electric vehicle. (Toyota Highlander, Ford Escape, and Saturn VUE hybrids will all available within the next couple of years, as will a Toyota Sienna Hybrid AWD (a real wallet-buster, no doubt.) Until then, we’re still cramming all of our stuff into our Saturn Wagon! The bikes go on a receiver hitch rack in the back. Dave Wissenbach – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

I guess for the beach you need wide tires and 4 wheel drive? I am sure that down around Corpus Christi they have some favorite vehicles? I think I have seen Chevy Suburbans in some articles? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

– rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof.

I like Outbacks, but at 6′3" (not overly tall) I found they have a serious lack of legroom.  I don’t see how you can say they have way more interior space than an average SUV, as my smallish 2-door Explorer is roomier.  Maybe more cargo space than a CRV or RAV 4, but those are quite a bit smaller than average size and still have more legroom. Nice vehicles though if you can fit in them. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Be wary of the Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape twins (they are mechanically identical, built by Ford).  They are good vehicles on paper, but have fairly poor reliability and resale value. The Jeep Liberty also has shown poor reliability and resale.  It is more capable off road than the Tribute/Escape but rides rougher, doesn’t drive as nice, is less roomy and gets poorer fuel economy. A well used Toyota 4-runner would be a better vehicle than either the Escape/Tribute or the Liberty are new.  But it is probably more than what you need. Take a long look at a Subaru Outback or Forester.  Also a Honda CRV and Toyota RAV4 would probably meet your needs.  The CRV is especially nice for kids as it has a minivan-like passthough to the back seats. The Hyundai Santa Fe is also a nice vehicle and comes with a great warranty. Do your research and be sure to look at total cost of ownership, including resale value and maintenence costs.  You will find Ford, GM, and Chrysler products really struggle there, while Honda is typically the best. Check out this article: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-08-15-carcosts_x.htm The "cute-utes" are not real off road vehicles only if you plan to rock hop with the Jeeps. They should do fine for what you described. If you had any heavy towing to do I would say differently.  It would be silly to get a more capable 4×4 you would rarely if ever need, and you may get annoyed with the "truckyness" that comes with the bigger 4×4s.  I sure do.  Then again, I really don’t know how serious your off-road plans are.  But I’m guessing not as serious as you think. When I was in high school, my dad had a 2-wheel drive 4-cylinder Ranger.  You may be surprised where I took that thing.  It made a fine hunting vehicle. I can tell you with absolute certainty to stay away from Ford Explorers.  I have one and it is the biggest piece of junk I have ever owned.  And it doesn’t even have 60,000 miles on it yet.  The initial price made it seem like a good value.  But it’s been anything but. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

Check out the Subaru Outback.   Way more interior space than many averaged sized SUV’s.  It’s also much easier to get bikes up on the roof. Barry — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Is it necessary to post again? Well, I’ll reply to a couple other points… we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are

Only if you want one. good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability?

I’ve never seen a campground or park that requires a real 4×4 to get to the site. The worst I’ve seen is the Winterhawk bluegrass festival, which requires you to get up a big, steep hill; if it’s muddy, 2-wheel drive vehicles have a tough time. Some campgrounds do have rather rough paths, but all that’s required is a little extra ground clearance. we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use.

This is when you’ll use it most, on the road. You should probably make that a priority. road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way..

Compact SUVs, as well as larger ones built on a car platform, are not off-road vehicles, no matter what the manufacturer claims. They can handle grass, the path to the campground, etc; but tough stuff like deep in the woods or in deep sand, you need quite the ballsy off-road pickup (or SUV built on a pickup truck platform). Do you expect to drive on the beach? I’ve only ever seen vehicles allowed on the beach on TV shows like Baywatch; nowhere I’ve been, have I seen vehicles permitted to drive onto the sand, or anywhere out of the parking lot. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE?

The Ford Escape is a car-based SUV. It will do anything spectacular. It probably gives a pretty good ride on the road. how is the Jeep liberty?

Reportedly, the Liberty is okay. Never driven one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess

I don’t drive anything on the beach. For fishing/camping/biking, I drove a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am for 5 years; a 1987 Cadillac Sedan Deville for a couple years before that; and now I drive a full size pickup, specifically, a 2002 GMC Sierra 4×4, extended cab, etc. The Caddy and the Pontiac did fine for all sorts of off-road situations, although I did bend a wheel by going too fast in the Caddy on a very rough trail. People who think a low-slung, 2wd car can’t go off road, either have never done it, or are unskilled off-road drivers. They can’t do really gnarly off road stuff; but car-based SUVs can’t either, except that they can deal with a little bit slipperier conditions and a little bit higher clearance issues. ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget

My GMC Sierra, which does NOT have any sort of off-road package, and has lame-looking road tires, is the most comfortable vehicle I’ve ever driven. The tires, which look lame, provide ample grip in all sorts of snow, mud, etc. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute?

I can’t imagine why not. can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james

– Rick Onanian — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

You might want to look at the Suzuki XL-7 (4 wheel drive version).  You could get the third row seat version and still stay close to the upper limit of your price range.  Even an ‘02 model would be good, and most (those sold after August last year) have a transferable 7 year 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.  It might be worth looking at. — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

we’re looking for a second car, and i’d like to get something that can go onto the beaches here in nc (and elsewhere). i’m a longtime pier fisher, but will be new to the beach and surf. it *is* necessary to get a good 4×4 as a fisherman in nc, isn’t it?  i’ve heard there are good parks to go camping at also, where you need 4×4 capability? we also need the car to be decent or good on the road, for normal use. we have a new baby… also, my s.o. is only 5′1" tall, while i’m 6′ so i don’t want her to feel the truck is too high (getting in) or too big (reaching the trunk, etc). we’re looking at the MAZDA TRIBUTE. We know it drives well on the road… is the 4 wheel drive V6 reasonable for the beach?? Enough power? Won’t get stuck? I’ve heard compact suv’s like the CRV are not good that way.. any real differences on the FORD ESCAPE? how is the Jeep liberty? Toyota 4runner tops the charts but $$… would have to get a *more* used one. What do you all drive on the beach for fishing/camping/biking? i guess ideally you want a truck truck for the beach, which probably doesn’t ride that well on the road, and a car car for everyday…. but what’s the best of both worlds, or the best compromise?… we have a budget too to consider and we’d like to stay in the 15-22K range for a new, or 1-2 year old, <20-30K miles type of bracket. also, anyone know if a slim thule or other cargo box plus a couple mountain bike trays would fit on top of the Mazda tribute? can you email replies to me, if you also post? thx in advance james — rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers.  To find help solving posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Response:

Question:

During the height of "hummingbird season" I use 10-15 lbs of sugar a week to make the solution. Can I have your "recipe" please?

I’ve never measured sugar to water, but an approximation would be about 1/2 cup sugar to about 3/4 cup water.  Heat water, stirring, until sugar dissolved, add a drop or so of red food coloring, and cool in fridge.  Makes about a qt. Once the birds start lapping up the solution I make about 3 qts at a time. This solution has about 2 – 2.5x more sugar than the commercial powders, and so hummingbirds have to make the trip to the feeder a little less often (which was the point of revving up the sugar).  I had checked with an ornithologist where I work, who blessed the enriched solution.  It can be made even sweeter with no harm to the birds. Note of caution…..I don’t know if beet sugar is sold in the UK, but thru trial and error I discovered that the birds reject a solution of beet sugar (or did mine anyway); I use only cane sugar now. Mac

Response:

This is when a hawk or other predator approaches and smaller birds band together in a planned attack to drive off the intruder. I have seen hawks dive bombed this way by a bunch of starlings.

<nodding   A few years ago I heard loud, continuous bird screeches in back of the house and went to find out what was happening.  A number of birds were attacking an eagle, dive-bombing it and had driven the eagle to flying about 4 feet above the ground.  In a matter of minutes it  had flown off.  I was happy for the escape of any potential prey but I missed a great opportunity to photograph the scene. My hummingbirds have not arrived as yet here in Pa.

Not all the hummingbirds leave this area during the Winter….since it’s a cold "Northern" winter only a few days a season.  A few birds are back at the feeder; in a few weeks, there’ll be a clan gathering of multiple generations. During the height of "hummingbird season" I use 10-15 lbs of sugar a week to make the solution. Mac

Response:

I think cats are the lords and ladies of the earth.  :-) So do the cats. (Hi, Mac … )

Good morning, Arjay.   Small point of order … Fossey worked with _mountain_ gorillas.

When I read over what I had typed, I thought there was something "off"  (blush, blush).  Thanks. Again, a number of species that form families or troops for survival  also develop within the "family" strong sibling and mother-dtr ties, hunting for one another, caring for one another’s offspring, looking out for orphans, protecting one another. That applies in many species.  Look into the behaviours of many social animals: African elephants may be the most striking example.

Yes. If the wolves’ territoriality were unique to the species Tacon’s conjecture would seem stronger.   Mac

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "DawnoftheForest" wrote … Mcc6050 wrote … Dogs rule Hmmmm….I think cats are the lords and ladies of the earth.  :-) So do the cats. (Hi, Mac … ) Interesting article…some comments: Tacon said modern man’s strong territorialism is not shared by other primates. I don’t think that’s all that accurate.  The work by Goodall and Fossey showed that troops/families of chimps and low-land gorillas are territorial. Their findings were, IIRC, mostly confirmations of things suggested by the earlier work of Konrad Lorenz. Even when developing the concept of "imprinting" Lorenz made some passing comments on the apparent territoriality of geese, and I seem to recall he expanded on those comments in _Das sogenannte B

Question:

Dear r.o.f.f. ers, I’m in Scotland and have received an invitation to Utah by a non-flyfishing pal. When would be good times for ffing the Green? Will my standard kit for the Scottish Lochs be about right (9ft, 7 weight, DT line). Do I hire a guide? Bank or boat fishing? How expensive is it? Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

Response:

Try <http://expo.flyshop.com/~troutcrk/index.html for info regard the Green. The page details the sections of the river as well as guide pricing. They can also help you with gear selection. Another great resource for the Green is Western Rivers Flyfishers <http://www.citysearchslc.com/E/V/SLCUT/0003/90/32/ . They are a shop located in Salt Lake City, but have guider service on the River. Don’t miss your chance to visit, the Green offers spectacular fishing and scenery. Scott

|Dear r.o.f.f. ers, | |I’m in Scotland and have received an invitation to |Utah by a non-flyfishing pal. When would be good |times for ffing the Green? Will my standard kit for |the Scottish Lochs be about right (9ft, 7 weight, DT |line). Do I hire a guide? Bank or boat fishing? How |expensive is it?

Response:

Question:

I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for the help!!!                   Good luck, er fishing…                                 JOHN

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: I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!!   Ah. Welcome to "livers." Since cats in my neck of the woods like minnows (live or dead) as well as anything, I won’t touch chicken livers with a stick. Went fishing once with a friend. He used livers, and wiped his f*cking hands off on his pants. Got in my car, smearing that juice all over my seat. For a week, afterwards, my car stank. "No dear, that wasn’t me…." Anyway, yeah — you can use trebles, but I don’t recommend it. Yes, the liver stays on much better, but it’s not a good hook for cats (unlike a "Kahle(sp?)"), and if they do gulp it, it’s the devil’s own work, unhooking it. Instead — either fry the livers very briefly, or leave them out in the sun, first, for a while. That toughens ‘em up, and they won’t fly off the hook when you cast.

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: I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!!

You could use two small trebs englobbed in the flesh. TimW

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: I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!! You could use two small trebs englobbed in the flesh. TimW

you can use what we call out here magic thread. what is it, it is a thread about the size of dental floss and it is elastic you take a live to a hook and hold on to one end of the thread and pull it tight and wrap the meat to the hook. let go of it and it senches the liver to the hook no knots to tie. it works great happy trails robert

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!!   Ah. Welcome to "livers." Since cats in my neck of the woods like minnows (live or dead) as well as anything, I won’t touch chicken livers with a stick. Went fishing once with a friend. He used livers, and wiped his f*cking hands off on his pants. Got in my car, smearing that juice all over my seat. For a week, afterwards, my car stank. "No dear, that wasn’t me…." Anyway, yeah — you can use trebles, but I don’t recommend it. Yes, the liver stays on much better, but it’s not a good hook for cats (unlike a "Kahle(sp?)"), and if they do gulp it, it’s the devil’s own work, unhooking it. Instead — either fry the livers very briefly, or leave them out in the sun, first, for a while. That toughens ‘em up, and they won’t fly off the hook when you cast.

Just put all the livers you want in the toe of an old pair of pantyhose…tie it off of pin it shut…insert hook and feel free to cast as hard as you want….Good luck!  this technique has really gotten me some massive channel cats in the rivers of PA…

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: I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!!   Take a spool of light cotton thread with you and wrap about a foot of it around the liver to hold in place. Don’t wrap it too tight or it’ll slice the liver. I like cotton thread because it breaks easy and I don’t need to hunt for my knife all the time, it just breaks with a pull. Try beef or pork liver, works just as well and stays on the hook better. BiNM

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I just wanted to second this: Since cats in my neck of the woods like minnows (live or dead) as well as anything, I won’t touch chicken livers with a stick.

I do use liver every now and then, or get some of that "catfish bait" in the tubs at the store. But catfish really like live small fish or large minnows (check your regs before using small fish – here it is okay to use small sunfish only if you catch them legally with hook and line) or cut bait. Night crawlers also work well. If it is legal to chum, you can toss a liver in near your line to attract cats. Once they arrive, they will eat other offerings as well. -Andy

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I was fishing tonight for catfish at a local pond using chicken liver. : I got numerous bites, maybe 15 or so in a 3 hour period.  Yet I only : managed to catch one.  The liver was pretty soft and kept falling off : the hook.  Should I be using treble hooks??  What size would you : recommend for cats??  Any special techniques I should take into account : when getting bites?? i.e. when do I set the hook?  Any special way to : keep the liver secure on the hook?  Anyone???  Bueller???  Thanks for : the help!!!   Take a spool of light cotton thread with you and wrap about a foot of it around the liver to hold in place. Don’t wrap it too tight or it’ll slice the liver. I like cotton thread because it breaks easy and I don’t need to hunt for my knife all the time, it just breaks with a pull. Try beef or pork liver, works just as well and stays on the hook better. BiNM

You can also use a little square of panty hose wrapped around the liver…

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Question:

Does Anyone know any good flyfishing rivers/lakes in or near Halifax, NovaScotia? I will be traveling there for about two weeks and would like to know if there even is flyfishing there. Please E-mail me back or just posting it up might be good if I ever see it again.                        Thanx JT

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Does Anyone know any good flyfishing rivers/lakes in or near Halifax, NovaScotia? I will be traveling there for about two weeks and would like to know if there even is flyfishing there. Please E-mail me back or just posting it up might be good if I ever see it again.                       Thanx JT

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Submit one or browse what we’ve got!!! http://www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish/reports/index.html

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Submit one or check out what we have!!! http://www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish/classifieds/index.html

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Please stop by and add your link to our "Add-a-link" section!!! http://www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish/index.html (Netscape 2.0) http://www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish/aol.html (non Netscape Users)

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Stop by our site, add you links, browse our classifieds and Virginia Reports, leave us your comments!!! www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish for netscape users www.sklarew.com/vaflyfish/aol.html for other browsers

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I’ve been out with a pulled back for over one month now!  I pulled it setting up my research project up in the Blue Ridge.  How’s the fly fishing going in VA?  What hatches have come off?  Any successful fishing reports? Thank, steve

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Well, smallmouth fishing in the northern half of the state has been pretty lame due to an unusually wet spring and high water. But I had a great day in May catching native brookies in Shenandoah National Park! Scott W.

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Fishing has gone from poor to worse here at least in northern parts of Virginia since Memorial day. We’ve had record rains and flash flooding. Fishing was fairly good for a short spell about a week ago, but then the rains hit AGAIN!!! Keith in Waterford, VA

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Question:

Sorry for the subject in BIG CAPS, but I’m getting frustrated at the completely lame smallmouth fishing this year in the mid-Atlantic region.  Nobody I know in the DC area has had any luck flyfishing for smallmouth (note I did NOT say "spincasting with pig ‘n jigs for smallmouth!") The Potomac has had one of its highest springs in history, and as I speak, is raging away at 6.5 feet, way the hell too deep, fast, and muddy for smallmouth fishing.   Looks like it’ll be July before smallmouth conditions get good… (I should explain – this is frustrating because I live about 400 yards from the Potomac, and can easily walk to the river from home to fish every day.  Alas, I haven’t done that in ages!) Has anybody anywhere else been having a booming smallmouth spring? Scott Wilkinson Bethesda, MD //// Remember: smallmouth fishing on the Potomac is Lefty Kreh’s favorite kind of fishing!  (Ask him—it’s true!) ///

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Hi Scott,   The smallmouth fishing has been EXTREMELY slow this spring. The coast fork of the Willamette is (was?) full of them and they were game takers. The fishing is also helped by the large ’salmonid predjudice’ that we have locally. So still very little pressure on them. But we both know what they are missing and I’m NOT TELLING. Pretty much the same thing that you are up against, high cold water due to a late, wet, cold spring. Better than the floods a few months back. I hope things pick up for you a little later this spring. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman p.s.  I live close to Eugene Oregon 300 yds from the Willamette river.

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Question:

Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

It’s a little large for a vest, but the best knot tying book I have seen is "Practical Fishing Knots II" by Mark Sosin and Lefty Kreh. // // Charlie… //

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Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d
REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can
stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic

Save the cash and buy the current issue of  Fly Fisherman. It has one of the best articles I’ve seen that actually tested the strength of some of the more popular knots. Learn to tie two of those knots and you won’t ever need to learn any more about knots.

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I have a ’stream guide’ on my  fly box – it’s the metal kind.  Pasted on the outer side of the cover is a schematic of about 8 popular knots. I never use it because I tie the same 3 knots for anything I do:  blood for joining tippets and leaders; nail for joining leader to flyline, and Duncan for tying on flies.  After several hundred times of tying these, one never forgets how.   Point:  Practice 3 – 4 of your favorite knots over and over and you won’t need a stream guide.  Leaves more time for fishing instead of debating which knot to use, how to tie, etc…. Have fun. Jim

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Orvis has just such a thing, the "Waterproof Vest Pocket Knot Booklet" written by Doug Truax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Can anyone recommend a good book on knot tieing ?  Actually, what I’d REALLY like is a stream-side guide to knot tieing … something I can stick in my vest, preferrably water-proofed, that covers a few basic knots. Ken Boulder, CO.

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Question:

 Going to Callaway Gardens 70 miles So. of Atlanta Ga. to fly fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know?

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I didn’t know Callaway had fishing trips – I would like some info also.  

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(Allen Turner) writes: fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know?

What is there to know besides it is somewhat expensive……. Seriously The Callaway Gardens resort has some lakes (10 is what sticks in my head but it is not important) which they have designated as guided flyfishing C&R only for Largemouth Bass and Breams. The lakes are only open periodically, they are maintained to keep out unwanted grasses and predators and from what I’ve seen and heard the Bass get very big. I have not personally done it as it is a little costly when I’m so close to Lake Lanier and the fact that I did not care for the guy who set it up, who has sent moved on. But several friends have done it and I have seen the pictures, no one I have talked to about it has been disappointed. If you can get a copy of the latest "Orvis News", I noticed it was mentioned in there. E-mail if I can help further.

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(Allen Turner) writes: fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know? What is there to know besides it is somewhat expensive…….

I concur. I have a friend who spent four days there and it was as pricey as getting a guided float tour in a Mackenzie on the Hiwassee. HOWEVER, he caught bream as big as most average bass (1-2 lbs) and one 3lb. and 1 4-5lb  (He says You’ll have fun, I’m sure. –Chandler

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Question:

Could any one help locate the name of the river in MD that was on TV channel ESPN called Flyfishing America April 1, 1995. I hope to be out that way soon. Thanks

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Could any one help locate the name of the river in MD that was on TV channel ESPN called Flyfishing America April 1, 1995. I hope to be out that way soon. Thanks

Didn’t see the show, but if it was Maryland, it probably was the Gunpowder. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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I believe the show was filmed on the North Branch of the Potomac below the Randolph Jennings Dam.  The general public cannot fish where the filming took place !!!!  I have fished in that river this spring and caught a few, biggest about 13".  There are large fish in there but they are fish that have been released from hatchery operation  by dam.  1 mile below dam is closed to public.  Gunpowder river north of Baltimore is probably better ‘bet but very busy on weekends and during good hatches.                                                    regards leo

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Question:

Hi everyone, I just started fly tying (a X-Mas gift) and I like it very much. I’m astounded at what I can do with my ten thumbs. I was wandering if there was any flies database? A database that would include pattern, variance, region for fishing the fly and an image of the fly to see it before tying it. If this databse exist, where? Thank you for your time and patience. Dep. Sc.Education           FrancoMedia: 101:190/600 U.Q.T.R.                    FidoNet    : 1:167/420 C.P.500                     Fax        : (819) 376-5127 Trois-Rivieres, Que.        Phone      : (819) 376-5095 (messages) CANADA   G9A 5H7             ~~~ * VbReader 2.22 #67 * Diner non pret: (A)vorter (R)eessayer (P)izza

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There is a very good IBM program which I think is called Flybase that does what you describe. There is a company in Boston called Hypercomplete Angler that sells a mac based program as well. Computer based fishing programs were covered in one of last year’s Fly Fisherman magazines. The Flybase program is now carried by many fly shops. I know Gates Au Sable Lodge in Grayling Michigan carries it.  Good Luck–Steve Rosenblum, Ann Arbor.

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