Question:

Just what went on at the Yellowstone clave?

Lots of fishing, beer drinking, and BSing around the fire. Opening weekend we unintentionally offended a cranky old man, who turned out to be the father of Forest Service Ranger Chad, and Chad took it upon himself to harass us until we left. Pissed us off mightily at the time, but looking back on it a few weeks later, he was just a minor nuisance (say, like getting bitten by a deer fly) in what was otherwise a wonderful week with a great bunch of guys, in a beautiful setting. Did Charlie give Vern a fire extinguisher before shipment?

I just hope he remembered to punch a few air holes in the box. Has anyone else read Ruark’s "The Honey Badger" more than once, and if so, did your opinion(s) vary wildly each time?

I read almost all of his books, and my opinions varied wildly from page to page.  I got the feeling he was writing his autobiography over and over again, and felt that maybe he should quit whining (and perhaps cut back on the whiskey a bit). We’re on the fifth week of a hot, dry spell here in ND.  My garden withered away and got chewed down to the ground (except, of course, for the weeds) by grasshoppers while we were in Montana. Kevin

Response:

I have an opportunity to catch up a bit with ROFF after several weeks of travel and adventure, and it’s good to see nothing has changed. However, I have missed a few details, and I always hate to miss the last episode of a series, even if it is "Survivor," therefore: Did the Collier/Poodlesfly scam go undiscovered, or at least, unreported? Just what went on at the Yellowstone clave? Did Charlie give Vern a fire extinguisher before shipment? Has anyone pointed out there is a river in Oklahoma and Texas named the Canadian, not to mention an OK county, a Texas town, etc.?  Heck, "Canadian District" appears on old Cherokee Nation census stuff (from the US, or EU, for some of us)…. Can Jeff and Louie email each other without a note from Bill Gates and two kids from MIT? Has anyone else read Ruark’s "The Honey Badger" more than once, and if so, did your opinion(s) vary wildly each time? OBROFF – went fishing some, caught some, got rained on where we didn’t need it, and didn’t where we did.  We have a river on some of our land large enough to warrant Rand-Macnally’s considerations, and, sadly, you can now jump it in places…and without being Evil Kineval (or Opie)… Muskie, ol’ boy, if you read this, there is something to bitch and moan about, and guess what?  It was not caused by GW or Bill and Hillary or either major party (or I guess, maybe all of them) – it was caused by good old fashioned greed with a good dose of stupidity thrown in to ensure a real mess…. TC, R TC, R

Response:

Question:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.         did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  Great, Charlie.  You let the cat out of the bag.  Now, the eastern clavers will want you to spill the beans. I fear that the bottom will then drop out of the goat market, hurting a lot of the local farmers:( Bob Skinner — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

Got there friday night, airlifted out on Monday afternoon. 2. Who did you fish with?

Dan’l, Darin, Warren, the Hightowers, Bob Card and Willi. Planned to fish w/ KenF but arteries got in the way. 3. Where did you fish?

Fished once right next to camp, 2 smalls, one decent, all Browns. Second day fished up river a bit at burnt tree hole (?). Caught a few small browns. Third day fished braided channals south of town. Caught a lot of smaller browns. 4. What water was most productive for you? Loved the braided channels. Want to fish it again. 5. What was your favorite fly? I was using stimulators mostly, but I should

have used more . . . nymphs 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? Huh? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? ? 9. What did you win at the raffle? A 3 weight line, 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Actually I was right

there. See that sucker was w/ Dan at the jiffy shop and Dan’l, whose offer of an aspirin had been earlier accepted, suggested Sned visit the clinic just for the hell of it. The countergirl said it was down the street, he went and, voila, started a whole chain of events that  . . . hold it. Sned IS ME! Yeah. I lived. At least so far. Ended up at Deaconess/Billings, great cardiac center, next am they found blockages and inserted 2 stints. Ill say more about these very interesting bits of stainless mesh some other time. Bob Skinner, is a great guy. He drove all the way to Billings and back to get my wife Bonnie to my van in Ennis. I will be forever greatful for that quiet kindness. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit

smoking 20 years ago and learned to hate eggs. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? All of em. No surprises really. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? see above. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? Well so far. I was

lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Walt Its even worse. The lady is classy, great lookin, has a sense of humor and fishes. Kinda like many of the other classy ladies of the West. To whom I dedicate this couplet: Yeah, and, and, and . . . she’s really cool. Grows her own, No pixy and looks grrrreat in the sun. Has a homeplace between John Day and Maupin, but mostly she’s keepen the old Beaver flying and in gas. Prefers older guys, dresses mostly out of REI, and little Sundance. Ties down to a 22. Somewhere West of Cheyenne Send er round Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM. ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

I arrived on Fri. night the 21st and left on Sat morn the 29th. 2. Who did you fish with? Everyone who showed up except Ken, which I wish I could have. 3. Where did you fish? The Madison and Ruby rivers, Jack and Indian cricks, and two high altitude lakes with Steve (RW) which will remain nameless. 4. What water was most productive for you?

Probably the second lake Steve and I rode up to. We caught at least 2 doz. apiece in just a couple of hours. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis, although this is not what I caught most of my fish on. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

The 20" cutthroat that I caught out of the first lake Steve and I rode to. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope, but I know where he was on Thursday, and I ain’t tellin. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

They appeared to. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

I won Michael Erana’s furled leaders and Forty’s book "Trout Stream Insects" 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Fishing. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

I can’t think of a single thing. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

To be honest, Ken Fortenberry. I can’t really explain why either. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

Steve. Sorry Steve, but it’s true, I thought you’d be more a serious type of guy. I was definitely wrong. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

A) Vern won the cane rod and I’m cryin fix cause it was the first item up and his was the first name drawn. FIX! FIX! Just kidding Vern, you did a good, fair job with the raffle. Danl won the Conner rod, that lucky son of a bitch. I can say that cause it’s going to be a couple more weeks before he gets to a computer. B) Dave S. is going to be fine. Darin

Response:

Hello Peter Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive. Take care Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

Response:

Nice to hear from you personally David. Glad to hear you survived the ordeal.  Take your time and do some gentle fishing. Best wishes, regards, and tight lines! Mike Connor — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

David Snedeker writes:

(nice stuff snipped) And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

Good for you, David.  Wish I could have been there with you.  Get well.. Dave LaCourse

Response:

"David Snedeker" wrote 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit smoking 20 years ago and learn to hate eggs.

Dave,    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ernie

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired,…

Very you’re hungry,…

Very and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report

Very (???) 1. What days were you there?

Sat-Sat 2. Who did you fish with?

Bruce Bruiser Hopper, Warren, Willi Tight Line Loehman, and a bit with Ken, Bob Skinner and Ol’ Dan the Man Finn.  Have pics, will post. 3. Where did you fish?

Mostly the Madison (so much water!), but also Ruby, Beaver Head (huh huh), West Fork Madison, and a tiny private spring creek I got access to by being nice. 4. What water was most productive for you?

I netted big fish on the Beaver Head (:-) more later), but seriously, the Madison, most consistently below Ennis Lake. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Black Stonefly nymph, partly because all the fly shops said they wouldn’t work (I went in one shop and the bins with the size and style I wanted were empty, so I asked if they had more of em.  The guy said that he had in stock anything that I would want to use.)  I finally found what I was looking for at the True Value hardware store and went out and killed ‘em that day! 6. What was your most memorable fish?

First 2 are equal.  The very first fish I caught was a 17" brown from a spot that I worked *hard* to wade to, then it took off dowstream in heavy current. Then I had to work hard to wade *out*, this time fighting a fish, so I could get to a place I could net it. The second was a rising fish I saw in a quiet little braid in "the Channels". I cast and switched flies, and cast and switched angles, and switched flies and cast some more until I finally caught it.  Turned out to be an 8" brown, but still a great catch since I was so determned to get it. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Never talked AFAIK. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Nothing!  They held it earlier than they said and I wasn’t back yet!  I gave my prize away.  Dang, I wanted a shot at that 8 ft 2 wt. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Telling him the size of the fish I just caught.  Sorry that was in bad taste – I’m joking only because I know he’s fine.  Enjoyed meeting Dave, had a nice chat with him about the fishing on the first day. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Fish longer hours right from the start!  So much water! 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

I honestly didn’t have any preconceived notions.  Sorry, boring answer.  Fun people though. Regards, Jeff

Response:

<snip Snedeker

Congratulations on making it back to the computer.  Glad to year you’re all right.  Best of luck and a speedy recovery. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF.

Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

Response:

…Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive.

Sad news about your trouble Dave.  Good news about your survival.  I join the rest in best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.  A word of advice: don’t do that heart attack shit again; it ain’t good for you (let’s just see if we can get an argument about THAT!) Wolfgang

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

"2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025 "2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos! or is that 20 Hectomarlons? R

Response:

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos!

Apocalypse Now? — Charlie…

Response:

1. What days were you there?

Arrived Sunday afternoon, left Thursday morning. 2. Who did you fish with?

Willi, Dan’l, Steve, Warren, Bob, JeffC. 3. Where did you fish?

Ruby, Madison, a lake I can’t name for fear of death & dismemberment by Warren and likewise a section of river I can’t name if I ever want to have Robin Cunningham guide me again. 4. What water was most productive for you?

The guided trip on Tuesday. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis was most productive but I caught my biggest fish on a hopper. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

A whitefish on the Ruby, my first ever. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nah, he hid behind Mary Dorsey’s skirts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Famously. Vern graciously offered the use of his pontoon so I could fish the alpine lake with Warren, Steve & Willi on Wednesday. Thanks again, Vern. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Had already made reservations for Thursday & Friday in the Park way back in March, before the raffle day was set, so missed it. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Dave, Dan’l and I went into town to grab a bite of lunch, mail a postcard, have some film developed, get some maps and buy brimmed hats ’cause the tops of our ears were gettin’ fried in the brutal sun wearing just ball caps. "AH HAH !", says Kristine at this point in the narrative, "you were shopping. Three guys shopping, it’s a wonder any of you survived the experience." Humph, says I, were not either, we were BUYING, not shopping. Dave got into his van and drove to the clinic immediately upon our return to camp so I assume he was having a heart attack in the back seat of my Subaru, bummer, but all’s well that ends well. Dave, you’ll have to finish that ‘Clave painting from memory and post a photo. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Stay all week. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

No surprises, really. Trip report to follow soon. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.

        did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

Response:

7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?     I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope.

Bob, It’s from the "Harry Potter" book series and It stands for "He Who Must Not Be Named". The Character is Voldemort, an evil Wizard that uses his powers for evil instead of good and is always causing trouble for Harry Potter and his friends. Paul

Response:

Steve Zimmerman wrote 1. What days were you there?

       Saturday through Friday 2. Who did you fish with?

       Just about everybody except Snedecker and Vern. 3. Where did you fish?

       The Madison, Jack Creek, Indian Creek, and the west fork of the Madison (my personal favorite). 4. What water was most productive for you?

       Jack Creek, where I didn’t even try to keep count. 5. What was your favorite fly?

       Took 90% of my fish on an elk hair caddis. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

       An 18" rainbow that I pulled out of Jack Creek, remarkable because the creek was so small. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

       Not personally, but he sent an emissary bearing gifts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

       Everybody got along splendidly, as long as Vern’s dog doesn’t count as a claver. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

       The 7 1/2′ Happy Hooker donated by George. Much more about this later. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

         Fishing on Jack Creek. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

         I would of had the air conditioning on my truck fixed BEFORE driving 1700 miles. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

         Dan’l. What a hoot. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

         Ken Fortenberry turned out to be the nicest, most considerate guy you’d ever want to meet. I suppose everybody turned out to be nicer than expected, especially compared to their on-line personalities.  Any one of these guys would’ve given you the shirt off his back. When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese. We spent a fine evening together, then went and fished one of Bob’s secret spots this morning. Thanks Bob, and any roffer who finds himself in northern Colorado is just as welcome in my home. Even George.

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

     I arrived Mon. afternoon and left Friday a.m. 2. Who did you fish with?

     I spent most of my time with ‘ol Daniel, Willi and Charlie Wilson it seems.   3. Where did you fish?

     Madison, Ruby and Indian Creek 4. What water was most productive for you?

     They were all about the same for me, fair, by comparison to where I normally fish.   99% of my fishing is lake fishing and my knowledge of stream fishing is limited.  But, that knowledge was increased quite a bit by watching Willi fish.  Heck, that guy could pull a fish out of the back of my Jeep, I believe.  I really enjoyed watching him fish & learned a lot. 5. What was your favorite fly?

    I seemed to have the most luck with an elk hair caddis and beadhead pheasant tail 6. What was your most memorable fish?

    The best fish was the one I broke off in the Madison.   I’m just not used to playing a fish in moving water (or keeping my footing.  Didn’t get wet but it was close a few times.) 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

    I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

    I didn’t monitor the "companionship monitor":) 9. What did you win at the raffle?

     I won a box of "Holdzit" products: Tool Saver, floatant holders in double and single and a new product that holds a 35mm plastic film canister.  There were duplicates so I put the extras as an add-on on the raffle items so more folks would be exposed to the products. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

   He was in the hospital when I arrived.  I did get to meet him, however.  As he took his keys with him and his wife flew into Billings, I drove to Billings & picked up his wife and drove her back to Ennis so she could pick up their van.  Dave looked good and was in good spirits. Had a nice visit on the way back to Ennis with his wife, Bonnie. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

   I would have drift boated the Madison.  You can only reach so much water when casting from close to shore.  And, as I’m not used to wading big streams (and the Madison looked really big to me) I would have been more comfortable in a boat (or pontoon). 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

   ’ol Daniel, I guess. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

   That’s easy.  Ken Fortenberry.  A pleasant surprise.  I really liked the left winger much to my surprise. (Dear Ken, I hope I didn’t destroy your image.  Steve asked and I had to respond:) Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

  Vern won the wonderful rod that you donated, Steve.  What a beautiful piece of work!  It was very generous of you to donate such a nice rod.   beautiful piece of work.  Charlie stopped by here on his way back to CO and I got to cast the rod.  It was a delight.  A 4 wt. (don’t remember how long) and a pretty rod.  I laid out 60-70 feet of line with out too much trouble.  Charlie will post more of a review when he gets back, I’ll bet.  Sorry, I can’t remember who won Mike’s rod but it too was a finally crafted rod.  I am really tickled that Steve, G and Mike would donate such fine rods, especially complicated to build bamboo rods. That’s way beyond the call of duty and is very generous.  It was fun to see the look on the winner’s faces.  Every winner was tickled silly. Bob Skinner  Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

Holy…..!  He actually had a heart attack?  I saw something about it, but thought it was some joke I didn’t have time to catch up on… If so, add my name to the list sending good wishes. TC, R

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there? 2. Who did you fish with? 3. Where did you fish? 4. What water was most productive for you? 5. What was your favorite fly? 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? 9. What did you win at the raffle? 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? –Steve

Response:

Question:

These trout can be very selective though, if they are rising to "Benson and Hedges", "Camels" may be useless, and indeed on occasion only a "John Player Special" will do the trick,  reduced strength cigarettes have also been found wanting. Apparently the material used in the filter makes them float too low in the surface film, and even trout are not stupid enough to believe that soggy cigarette butts  are emerging aquatics. Untipped cigarettes may often prove effective, although they tend to disintegrate rapidly.  If you want a real lunker, then try throwing Havana stubs attached to a very long leader off a suitable bridge. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but

Response:

You guys have missed it altogether.  This fish are addicted!.  They obviously can’t smoke underwater so they do the next best thing and inhale the butts.  Imagine the high a lttle trout gets from the average sized butt?  I really doing think somebody should be suing a tobacco company about this.  After all, these fish could get really sick and if you eat them, you’re getting second hand smoke (or is that third?) Can anybody say, "Class action?" Peter

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A few years ago, in April (it snowed that day) I caught a 3.5 lb Blagdon trout that a spherical glstening ball in its stomach.  On unwrapping it I could just discern some gold and the words ‘can damage your health’.  So it would seem. Gordon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These trout can be very selective though, if they are rising to "Benson and Hedges", "Camels" may be useless, and indeed on occasion only a "John Player Special" will do the trick,  reduced strength cigarettes have also been found wanting. Apparently the material used in the filter makes them float too low in the surface film, and even trout are not stupid enough to believe that soggy cigarette butts  are emerging aquatics. Untipped cigarettes may often prove effective, although they tend to disintegrate rapidly.  If you want a real lunker, then try throwing Havana stubs attached to a very long leader off a suitable bridge. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but

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You guys have missed it altogether.  This fish are addicted!.  They obviously can’t smoke underwater so they do the next best thing and inhale the butts.  Imagine the high a lttle trout gets from the average sized butt?  I really doing think somebody should be suing a tobacco company about this.  After all, these fish could get really sick and if you eat them, you’re getting second hand smoke (or is that third?) Can anybody say, "Class action?"

One of the more amusing urban legends I’ve heard lately was an explanation of why so many deer get run over on the highway. After eating cigarette butts that people fling from their car windows, they become addicted to the nicotine, and hang out along the highways looking for more; sooner or later, they get hit by a car. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Trout guts are fun. Not to be Ted Nugent about it, or anything, but I’ve learned a lot from trout guts. For example, I’ve learned that trout eat many more terrestrials than I thought possible. I’ve learned that trout on some streams often eat ladybugs and that smallish red humpies are excellent imitators for ladybugs. Importantly, I’ve also learned that my wife has no real appreciation for the disassembly of trout guts on certain kitchen counters. Also, she doesn’t particularly care for my habit of bringing chunks’o bugs from trout stomachs to show her while she’s painting landscapes. Important lessons, one and all. Today’s lesson, however, was particularly instructive in light of the recent discussion hereabouts on how much and how fast your average trout learns. Now, I don’t keep all that many trout, but when I do, I definitely like to see what the heck they’ve been up to, dining-table wise. Occasionally, if the surroundings support it, I even keep a largish one. So, it was with particular interest that I cleaned an 18 incher tonight, eager to see on what such a large (and presumably, smarter than average) trout might be dining. Tiny tricos? Evanescent midges? Taco supremes? In addition to a couple ladybugs, the first two things out of this particular stomach were caddis larvae. Complete caddis larvae — casings and all. In this particular river, the casings average about 3/4 inch to an inch in length, cylindrical, made out of the usual caddis larva materials of gravel and small sticks. Probing further, the next item on our trutta post mortem appeared to be yet another caddis larva — same length, same diameter, same…waitasec. Most caddis larvae don’t rebound when you press on them. Most caddis larvae aren’t fibrous. Most caddis larvae don’t read "Benson & Hedges" on the side. Yup — it was a cigarette butt. In addition to mocking whatever pretensions I might have had about fishing on a "pristine" stream, this event also gave new credence to that episode in, "The River Why," where Gus concocts a fly made out of hot dog wrappers and cigarette butts to fool the wily old bass in the town pond (’scuse me if my memory isn’t totally clear on that passage…think I’m getting the gist of it nonethemenos). It also made me question the advisability of imagining too much intelligence on the part of your average trout brain. Maybe sometimes the answer is just to throw something big, ugly, and nicotine-stained out there and hope for the best. So, anyway, the long and short of it is that I’ve started smoking. Besides having heard good things about the habit in general, I also need a ready source for new inventions at the vise. Look for a gold-ribbed Camel’s butt at a fly swap near you soon . tight lines and full ashtrays, – sid

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Question:

Jim W. http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mechanic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Absolutely amazing.  I checked the newsgroups using "test" and got 411 hits.  Using "alt.test" I got the following.  And you come here to do your "test"?  That is just amazing. alt.test alt.test.a alt.test.abc.xyz.lmn alt.test.big.al alt.test.binaries alt.test.cjc alt.test.control-message alt.test.d alt.test.dana alt.test.ds alt.test.fest alt.test.fishing   alt.test.flyfishing alt.test.group alt.test.hello-world alt.test.hulabaloo alt.test.ignore.yes.its.that.easy alt.test.io alt.test.mis3 alt.test.my.new   alt.test.not-r alt.test.obi-wan alt.test.one alt.test.only alt.test.test   alt.test.testing alt.test.test2 alt.test.tickle alt.test.two alt.test.wombat alt.test.yer.posts alt.test.z Never underestimate stupid people in large groups. Read the rec.woodworking FAQ at:  http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/ (It explains SWMBO, its origin; where to get free plans)

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Question:

Everyone knows there isn’t any real good fishing in CA. If you wantgood fishing you have to back East ’bout Carolina way…  ;-) There are a few well known places however that are descent…you might try the Trinity River or the Sacremento. -Greg

Greg, Bad info.  The last known trout in NC was caught by a bait fisherman while trespassing in Matt McCray’s back yard about a month ago.  He told us the gory tale on this very newsgroup. Nope, NC’s NOT the place. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "Never send a ferret to do a weasel’s job."

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Bad info.  The last known trout in NC was caught by a bait fisherman while trespassing in Matt McCray’s back yard about a month ago.  He told us the gory tale on this very newsgroup. Nope, NC’s NOT the place. Tom —

and he tasted damn good! waldo

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greg, Bad info.  The last known trout in NC was caught by a bait fisherman while trespassing in Matt McCray’s back yard about a month ago.  He told us the gory tale on this very newsgroup. Nope, NC’s NOT the place. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "Never send a ferret to do a weasel’s job."

Right you are Tom. The slackjawed redneck killed the last Appalachian Brookie known to man. Of course I had to sacrifice his life, Them redneck hides make good rugs you know! The hair off the back ties a good bugger too, I just haven’t figured out how to get that chili dog/sweat smell out of ‘em. Any ideas? Matt M

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I just haven’t figured out how to get that chili dog/sweat smell out of

‘em.  Any ideas? Shoot, Ah don’t see wah’ yer so worried ’bout that.  Jes’ soak the whole mess of ‘em in a big ol’ pot o’ Luzianna Hot Sauce.  That’ll clean up purt’ near anythin’, and them fish jes’ LUVS it!  Uh…you ARE fishin’ fer catfish, raht? — Bob "…I could’a been a Bubba…I could’a been somebody!" Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

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are certainly much better places to fish in Northern CA (by far)

Greg, I would be very interested and appreciative if you would list off a couple of those places.  I just moved to the east bay and have weekends off for the first time in 4 years, so I am almost insane to go fly fishing.  Any places (just general areas) you could point me would be greatly appreciated.  Don’t want/can’t afford any guides though, I just want places to go. Levi -Whether you’re rich or poor, it’s nice to have money

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are certainly much better places to fish in Northern CA (by far) Greg, I would be very interested and appreciative if you would list off a couple of those places.

Everyone knows there isn’t any real good fishing in CA. If you wantgood fishing you have to back East ’bout Carolina way…  ;-) There are a few well known places however that are descent…you might try the Trinity River or the Sacremento. -Greg

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. If you wantgood fishing you have to back East ’bout Carolina way…  ;-)    that statement is an obvious, shameful misrepresentation.  all the

trout in the north carolina mountains fled for the tennessee side of the smokies years ago.         wayno, shootin ya straight

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Hello friends, is there a possibility for flyfishing north east of San Francisco (tex Nappa Valley) between mars and april? Harry

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Call Sweeney’s Sports in Napa.  They should be able to help you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello friends, is there a possibility for flyfishing north east of San Francisco (tex Nappa Valley) between mars and april?

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I haven’t found much in Napa Valley proper, but the large creek that drains Berryessa (sp?) is not that far to the east.  I’m sure someone lurking knows the name of it.  Also, the Russian River is not much further north and it has smallmouth bass and supposedly trout too. Good luck. —                                                       -dnc- Harald Heisserer wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is there a possibility for flyfishing north east of San Francisco (tex Nappa Valley) between mars and april?

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Hi Harry, Your best best in/near the Napa Valley is "Putah Creek". It flows out of Lake Berryessa. You might want to consult a map of the area. There are certainly much better places to fish in Northern CA (by far) but Putah is the closest to Napa. If you are here in March you might try the Russian River as the steelhead are usually still here. This however is more hit and miss (as all steelhead fishing is). -Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello friends, is there a possibility for flyfishing north east of San Francisco (tex Nappa Valley) between mars and april? Harry

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Question:

This is a good idea.  We need an eight lined ‘Angler’s Toast’.  Maybe we need three or four of them? Mike Connor, you have been challenged to supply the first entry. Possibly, we should have an "Angler’s Toast Contest?"  for the Conclave?! shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah?

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Georg G: <<….shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah? "Row tiddly row Defecate or bust Never let your testes Dangle in the dust." Hey, it worked in Japan 40+ years ago! Dave L.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Georg G: <<….shush!  quiet everyone.  There is a click of glasses and Wayne Harrison stands up to give a toast – "- ah? "Row tiddly row Defecate or bust Never let your testes Dangle in the dust." Hey, it worked in Japan 40+ years ago! Dave L.

— Mr. G. All Writings

Question:

May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing! Mr. Gink — MZ

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May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing!

Oh yeah ?!?!?!? Well…may you get the same thing, and break it when you drop your "Tickle Me Elmo" on it, which breaks as well… TimW

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    Organization: Fly Fishing Products Manufacturer    May your Christmas Present be an Orvis Bamboo with a Guide missing!    Mr. Gink AND, that you live in a climate where you can’t use it for growing tomatoes! cheers,         -tgades

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Question:

FLyfishing rests on casting the weight of the line. That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster; that means that sinking lines are in AND so might lead (on the fly YES and maybe on the leader) and even indicators if they do not detract significantly from the aesthetic quality of the cast! Then you’d have to cut me some slack when I fish the runoff with 10 splitshot. The art is not the cast then. The art here is the magnificence of a rocky mountain runoff… TimW

I’ll cut you slack any time you ask. Read what I said; That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should be pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster;

if you get that when you use 10 split shot and it looks that why to the critical eye of another flyfisher then you fly cating and you’re a better caster than I  (or have a harder head)

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<snip : Time : for another glass of a great Chilean red wine. Now there is a relatively recent TRADITION that I can heartily endorse! With or without a barbecued leg of lamb and a Chilean river in the background….   !Vive el comercio libre con Chile! Burnaby, BC

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IMO, fly fishing is fishing an imitation of a natural food form, unweighted, solely using the weight of the fly line to cast. No bobbers, no split shot, etc. Everything else is "fishing with a fly". Sadly, this means that my beloved Atlantic salmon fishing (shudder, shudder), with centuries of tradition behind it, is fishing with a fly. At least no weight is allowed, either in the fly or on the leader. Does this matter? YES! Is it just semantics? No. How can one justify a "fly fishing only" section when bobbers and shotted leaders are permitted. It’s ludicrous. How about spooling a fly rod and reel with mono, nonsense. There is nothing wrong with a little yarn indicator which doesn’t float the fly, this is no different than using a dry fly (or the colored end of the line) as an indicator (which I do all the time where two or more flies are permitted). However, if the indicator is not an imitation of a natural insect and floats the nymph, you are bobber fishing, period. Do I do this? You bet! In deep, heavy water, fly fishing is usually a waste of time, fishing with a fly may, however, be very successful. However, how many times have I wished I had a noodle rod in my hands instead of a stupid fly rod, designed to cast a light line, not an ounce of lead. Chuck and duck is simply bizarre, a misuse of the equipment for some completely irrational reason. Ah, damn, George just landed me too. Time for another glass of a great Chilean red wine. Paul Marriner

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[rip !] YES! Is it just semantics? No. How can one justify a "fly fishing only" section when bobbers and shotted leaders are permitted. It’s ludicrous. How about spooling a fly rod and reel with mono, nonsense. There is

and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW

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and the ethics of sinking lines ?

Although someone will surely point out the seemingly logical inconsistencies of my argument, I do not have and ethical problem with sinking or sink-tip fly lines. Most of them can be cast in a more-or-less normal fashion. My simple (some will suggest simple-minded) definition of fly fishing is "no weight or floatation _added_ to the line or leader." All else is fishing with a fly, for which a multitude of angling gear will suffice or even excel. As I tried to point out in my earlier post, such hair-splitting is only appropriate when we designate "fly fishing only" sections. I support these for a number of the excellent reasons previously posted. Paul Marriner

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You guys are merciless. A.J.Thramer

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly             and the ethics of sinking lines ?         TimW          A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that…        And a dry fly is simply integration.    TimW No, a dry fly is a derivative.  Only the nymph is an integral. Although, the Royal Wulff may well be a partial derivative. – d tgades/dx

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and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW

 A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that… Jim Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, NV

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and the ethics of sinking lines ? TimW  A floating line is nothing but a linear bobber… Think about that…

And a dry fly is simply integration. TimW

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FLyfishing rests on casting the weight of the line. That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster; that means that sinking lines are in AND so might lead (on the fly YES and maybe on the leader) and even indicators if they do not detract significantly from the aesthetic quality of the cast!

Then you’d have to cut me some slack when I fish the runoff with 10 splitshot. The art is not the cast then. The art here is the magnificence of a rocky mountain runoff… TimW

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IMO, fly fishing is fishing an imitation of a natural food form, unweighted, solely using the weight of the fly line to cast. No bobbers, no split shot, etc. Everything else is "fishing with a fly".

<<snipped I like this; how else can we know we are fly fishing unless we can say what it is we are doing. However why <<an imitation of a natural food form; a soft plastic slamon egg or frog is an imitation of a natural food! Those are not flies and we all know that! Why not a combination of fibres, plastic, that combined provide no artifical movement other than that induced by the angler fished to induce a fish to take the fly into it’s mouth out of hunger, curiosity or aggresiveness. Also on the subject of the line; a couple years back I chatted with an angler on the Big Qualicum River on Van Isle. I was fishing a 14 ft double hander with split shot and an indicator (bobber) with a floating DT He used a 6ft section of850 SA shooting head nail knotted to green Amnesia running line. We both agreed we likely weren’t flyfishing. Yet his was " A singular system; unbroken from reel to fly" as GG might say. FLyfishing rests on casting the weight of the line. That cast has to have an aesthetic quality; it should pleasing to the eye and have a pleasing feel to the caster; that means that sinking lines are in AND so might lead (on the fly YES and maybe on the leader) and even indicators if they do not detract significantly from the aesthetic quality of the cast! A floating line and an unweighted fly may have the most grace; it may sometimes require more skill but it isn’t the only form of flyfishing! Ralph H.

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Question:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

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Quoting "WildernessWerkes!"<wwerkes from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.f    <This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard    <you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for    <a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building    <components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except    <fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional    <casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW I order quite a bit os stuff from Angler’s Workshop.  They have always provided excellant service.           Angler’s Workshop           1350 Atlantic           Woodland, WA. 98674           360-225-9445 Jim Carlisle

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This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

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I can reccommend Custom Tackle in Shelbyville, Tenn. Bob McKamey is the owner. Telephone 615-684-6164. I have dealt with this Co. for years. Good luck. Jack

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

I don’t think he’d buy a book on fly fishing gear when he said he wasn’t interested. Angler’s Workshop and Dale Clemems are two great rod building supply companies. Angler’s – (360) 225-9445 Clemens – (610) 395-5119 Don B.

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This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW

Call these: Dale Clemmens Custom Tackle (615)395-5119 Custom Tackle Supply (615)684-6164 Anglers Workshop (360)225-9445

Response:

This request presents a pretty weak thread to this group but I regard you as technicians, hence the question. I’ve been away from fishing for a few years now and have lost track of who mail orders rod building components. Please note that I’m interested in most everything except fly fishing components (including salt water spinning, conventional casting and class trolling to 130+). Any advice is appreciated … AW Just starting to make rods myself. I recently purchased "Crafting a Graphite Fly Rod" by Al Garcia of Frank Amato publications. Al has a section on sources for equipment and materials. B.

There are tons of suppliers, Cabella’s has a good catalogue for tackle craft. Thomas

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One of the most complete mail order rod component catologs that I have seen is put out by Cabela’s.  They put out a series of specialty catalogs.  The one that you need is called "Tackle Craft".  It has a complete spectrum of rod building supplies.  Call 800-237-4444. Mark

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Question:

I am just getting into fly-fishing. snip I seem to remember he used some sort of pin, but I can’t actually remember how he set it up (I was only 10 at the time). Anybody have some tips or suggestions? Paul

Paul, I would recommend you contact the Fly Box in Ottawa, they should be able to steer in the right direction. Also the Ottawa FlyFishers are an active organization you could contact also for info. Also ask around Bell Northern, I know some people flyfish there. David Delcloo

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You might want to start by reading a book or two on the basics of fly fishing.  Check your local library.  I like to suggest that folks try to get into a beginners fly fishing class.  I think its is well worth the money.  As to the kind of equipment to use, it depends on the kind of fishing you expect to be doing.  Generally, a 5wt or 6wt outfit works well for most rivers and streams, but I don’t know your situation.  As you are just starting out, you might want to look at an inexpensive outfit (I started out with a 5/6wt Cortland outfit.)  I bet that "pin" your grandfather used to attach the leader to the fly line was used in tying a nail knot. Good luck and enjoy, Claude

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Paul, I also use the nail knot with a 9′ tapered leader and would like to thank Tim for saving me trying to describe nail knot tying. With a 9′ leader I do get through about three or four per season due to my poor casting or snagging the bottom. Alan UK Flyfisher

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I am just getting into fly-fishing. The last time I ever tried it was with my grandfather ages ago. I’ve not forgotten his recommendations on the size and type of rod, nor how to play the fish. What I have forgotten is fairly basic – the best method to secure the leader line with fly (using monofilament) to the fly line. I seem to remember he used some sort of pin, but I can’t actually remember how he set it up (I was only 10 at the time). Anybody have some tips or suggestions? Regards, Paul Usual disclaimers apply…….    

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I seem to remember he used some sort of pin, but I can’t actually remember how he set it up (I was only 10 at the time). Anybody have some tips or suggestions? Regards, Paul Usual disclaimers apply…….    

The method you briefly described of attaching leader to fly line sounds like a needle knot.  This is my favorite method but is a little time consuming.   However, If you are building leaders by tying tapering dia. tippett material, you only have to tie one needle knot for the whole season.  (provided you do it right the first time) The prodedure goes like this. First you will need two sewing needles, one small enough to fit into the end of the fly line eye first, the other should be considerably larger. Step 1. Push the small needle, eye first into the end of the fly line up to a         quarter inch or so and then push it through the wall of the fly line. Step 2. Thread the smallend of the leader through the exposed eye and withdraw         the needle, with tippett, from inside the fly line.  Pull the leader         through the end of the fly line, leaving 5" or 6" extending through         the wall. Step 3. Take the larger needle and place it along side the fly line with         the eye toward the tippett and the point toward the reel.   Step 4. Wrap the butt end of the leader around the fly line and needle         starting above the point where the leader exits the wall.  Wrap down         five or so times past the exit point and pass the tag end through the         eye of the needle.   Step 5. Grab the poionted end of the needle firmly, and carefully draw the tag         end of the leader under the wraps you have just made.   Step 6. Wet the knot and cinch it up slowly ensuring that the wraps tighten         up smoothly and cover the area where the but end exited the line wall.         Trim the tag end and you are ready to go. Sounds complicated but it is knot so bad.  Pictures are a big help and there are many other ways that are a lot simpler, ie. loop connections, but as I said the is the method I prefer. Good luck, Tim

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