Question:

<snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here.

George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe. Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Eugene, I don’t recognize your "handle," so I’ll guess you are either an infrequent poster, a lurker, or new to ROFF.  If you don’t realize what’s up with Ginkles (Gehrke), only a google groups search, several hours of sometimes-humorous, sometimes-sad reading will truly bring you up to speed.  A by-no-means complete, albeit completely representative, selection of his greatest hits can be found at www.ginkstinks.com (I have nothing to do with this site, but I highly recommend it).  That said: Of course you should tie what pleases you and/or your target fish.  If you are tying flies for fishing, IMO, tie what works, regardless of materials – some of the now-classic patterns, and now-traditional patterns that were mods of "classics," started as bits of long johns, jacket lining, and other "non-traditional" materials.  If you are tying for your, or other people’s, enjoyment, such as for "display" or presentation flies, then, by all means, tie with what you feel is appropriate for that context.  Tying "classics" is, as you correctly point out, a fine tradition, and a fine hobby unto itself. TC, R

Response:

<snip You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great.

Nope.  Didn’t get your point, and you didn’t get mine.  I don’t tie anything in anybody’s style but mine. Fudd’s First Law of Opposition applies. My work is done. –Stan (off to Dr. Beddoes Pneumatic Institute)

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso!

An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) Wolfgang

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :)

My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Somebody, (two people) out of 9000 Active & Inactive (stalkers of roff) finally got it!  Jeff?  You get a gold star next to your name this morning.  I’m so impressed,  you drew me out of semi retirement.  A+ my friend.  You get an A+! Imagine Wolfgang’s demeanor when onpresso?

Response:

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be…

        And gentlemen in England now a-bed         Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,         And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks         That heard with us Saint Ginkle’s bray. TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap…

Cheap or dear, at least he does the job himself! Wolfgang as in who else would?

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! George who is sipping club soda

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe.

Never strive to do this.  It could be your reading style?  :)))))))))) ! (just kidding) Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great. — George

Response:

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

When it comes to you, "I can" imagine. I picture you sitting on a big boulder with fist sized rock in your hand over your head.  You’re naked because you cannot imagine wearing clothes in you’re imagination.  Imagine that!  Between your legs are three little, itty-bitty rocks you’re about to try and crack open.  One is a little stone and the other two rocks are you’re own.  You have this confused look on your face Wolfgang. Sitting beside you, on the boulder is a real walnut.  In fact, there are several of them.  In addition to this scene, beside you sits a chimpanzee and he has broken walnut shells scattered all around him.  The chimp has his hand over its’ mouth.  Next to the chimp sits LaCourse with both his hands over his eyes screaming, "I CAN’T LOOK!!" Imagine yourself finally getting up the nerve to hit one of those stones . . . This is really unimaginable.  Can you imagine that Wolfie? I can’t.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Yes, indeed, and why not when you’re able? g.g.

Response:

……Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Some of mine look more like Mickey Spillane……but it don’t matter……the fish hate ‘em…..like cops hate doughnuts. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :)

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be… TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life.

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Use of new materials, modern shortcuts, variation, adaptation to local conditions are what tying your own flies is all about.  Only collectors care if a particular fly is tied according to some magical formula using eye of jungle cock and wing of argus.  Most of us only care about catching fish, and we tie flies that hopefully work on our home waters.  Trial and error experimentation is what drives the evolution of working flies, not magic formulas. There was a lengthy thread on rofft earlier this year about why people tie their own flies, and the ability to adapt a pattern over time to be more effective is probably the biggest reason.  It’s why I tie my own caddisses instead of buying the cookie cutter versions from a fly shop. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. Let’s mention the Alaskan Mary Ann and Mickey Finn Streamers.  These are specific names of the original streamers.  If you, as a fly tier are going to write an article on the Mickey Finn, the literary world will assume you’re tying the original version per "Bates" recorded version. IF, on the other hand you’re going to write about the Mickey Finn using modern day artificial materials, then in my opinion, you cannot and should not refer to the fly as THE Mickey Fin but rather The Mickey Fin (AM Version).  This means, Artificial Materials Version, a modern day deviation.  It may be better than the original and then again it may not.   The short of it is this.  There is only one original way to tie the Mickey Finn. (as an example) If you deviate from that original version in any way, your fly has to (should) give notice or credit to "any" changes.  It would be the responsible thing to do if and when anyone writes about traditional patterns in the future. George Gehrke

Response:

        (self serving simpering snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Big freaking deal. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

        stan, surely you see that the whole point of that pompous blathering was george’s attempt to have us peons recognize that he walks daily with the legends of the sport—and, ultimately, to demonstrate that he, too, is part of the same immortal pantheon.         yeah, i figured you understood. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises.  Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. But..but..but you said…so, let’s recap: if you don’t use the original material, it’s "sacrilege" that "pollutes" the sport, but you yourself do it…oh, wait, I see it’s a confession…well, carry on, then… However! I don’t like where this is heading – a confession, but with an excuse… Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic.  (Today, new materials replace the need to kill Polar Bears) Sacrilege!  Pollution, I say… Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. AHA!  It’s not just a confession with an excuse, it’s SPAM! (name-dropping section edited for space) …Bates…Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame… Dave Whitlock and unsung to most…is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands…such as Doug Swisher… Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson…hey, I wrote the names so I’m a famous dead baseball legend, too!  Boy, this is cool! Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Oscar, Gink…hey, you’re a Muppet! To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, Sorta like "Ginkles," "jehrke," "putz," and one of my personal favs, "Muppethead"… for some, its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it has become boring for them. So you’ve quit fishing?  Oh, clever – you wrote "most"… My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Um, invented?  Well, OK, to be fair, maybe the combination flyrod, tomato stake, and tiki torch is all yours, but I don’t know if that will get you a place in the history books, Ginkles…I mean, someone will point out the damn things shoulda been burnt anyway, and about all they’re good for is plant-staking, and it sorta knocks the cache of ownership from your "invention"… Most often I’m afield and learning by doing. And you’ll never wizz on an electrified fence again, right? Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, I agree: Nothing gained, nothing ventured…. if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. Have you considered using mothballs in the cloakroom, Ginkles?

Response:

I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better.

Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport.

DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me

No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann

Question:

speechless. I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless.

Hm…..now that you mention it Dale, speechless and incoherent really AREN’T synonymous, are they?   Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain.

And we aim to do all the maintenance required. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week.

Ditto, in spades. Big Dale

You too Dale. Wolfgang

Response:

Much appreciated Vincent.Maybe I’ll try one on the Housatonic, Columbus day.I’ll definitely bring a few of those litle Olive thingamajigs as well. Regards,Flypaint(Shawn) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn) Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

…..Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?…..

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Response:

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Aggggh!  Good lord, now ya gone and done it.  I’ll have nightmares for weeks. Natty

Response:

Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.

Only managed one small brown on a trico that DavePA gave me just before his departure.  Weirdest thing…the trico hatch was confined to a 20-30 yard stretch of the river.  Either side of that, nothing but the size 72 cream midges. Glad you could make it Shawn…had a great time.  Sorry about the buzzsaw. Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines

etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?  It really was a laugh. Natty

Response:

speechless.  

I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless. Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week. Big Dale

Response:

I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

Shawn,   It was great meeting you, glad you got a chance to fish after that tire debacle on Saturday.                                   Tom

Response:

@mb-mj.aol.com: Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

As am I.  I would love to do one of these fall trips (especially Dave L’s), but Fall is my big teaching semester. Scott

Response:

Hey All,   I’m glad I was finally able to make it to a ROFF gathering ,even if it was only a mini one.I’m looking forward to the May, Penns gathering even if I can only make it for a three day weekend.Nice bunch of guys to hang out and fish with.Asadi wins the hospitality award hands down(and biggest rock bass).I picked up a lot of good tips watching these fellows fish and Tom might be interested to know that I dug around in my box until I found a small olive whatchamacall it and grabbed a nice brown just below the riffle at the end of tunnel road.I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is.(is the pattern posted anywhere?)Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Response:

. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well.

        good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.           it’s somewhat akin to discovering that mahatma gandhi spent his spare time reading superman comics. wayno, crestfallen in the old north state

Response:

Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.  

he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

Yeungling!  John, you’re in PA, gotta drink Yeungling.  My God man, have you no shame? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless. he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

   Well folks, a small, but noble, crew showed up at Coburn, PA this weekend. First to arrive(on Thursday), were John Baker(asadi), Mike Pitch(natty b),Mike Shaw(handyman) and Shawn ?(flypaint). Fishing was said to be fair, but will allow them the details at some later date.    Friday brought the rest of the arrivals, DavePA and friend Jeff, Allan Epps, with spouse and dog. The latter crew, I had never met. They proved to be pleasant and seemed to like the locale. The fishing Friday was quite good. Water levels were lower than May’s by a good foot or two. It was a great opportunity to study the underwater layout of the place. Hatches consisted of: Blue Quills, Little Olives, a couple types of craneflies, some decent caddis of a couple types and a smattering of Slate Drakes. These were accompanied by a virtual snowstorm of pale midges, roughly in a size 52, were one to attempt a size match. At any rate, I found success by throwing a pair of very small wet flies to visible feeders. The fly to use for this proved to be a #18 olive wet fly. This pattern took 11 of my trout over the weekend, my best producer. By contrast, Mike Shaw was taking a equal number of opportunistic risers with a #12 Patriot, for whatever reason. Success seemed largely due to the fact that Mike is steadily improving his cast placement, and was sending the things right to the fish properly. Others reported varying success. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well. Dave took pictures of the assembly which I hope he posts someplace. Well, he can leave out the facial closeup of me in which I looked like I was on the back end of a two week drunk.   Saturday, the fishing proved tougher, but most caught fish, generally on the small stuff. I did manage a couple of Browns on Dun Variants during a short burst of drakes. A chilly, breezy day, it was nonetheless beautiful in Penns Valley, with numerous bird sighting, mink running about. No bears seen. Dinner was at the Millheim, in the bar, over copious amounts of Yeungling Lager.   Sunday started out foggy, due to the Yeungling, no doubt. Actually, it was clear, and cold. Air temp of 36 at 7 am. After a quick talk with campground owners, and a fine breakfast with John, I joined Mike Shaw below Elk Creek to fish some pocket water with nymphs. Shawn checked in, having taken the largest fish of the weekend(a 17 incher) very early am with a Black Wooly bugger. Winds made for tough work nymphing, so we decided to depart and give the fish a break. The rest of the crew were either packing to go or fishing upstream. It was truly great to see you all, and will help whet the appetite until the May Clave.                                                         Tom

Response:

Question:

  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  

Good report Bruce. The spooky fish sure are a switch from the Juan’s. Learn how to take these fish, Bruce. They’ll teach you alot. Willi

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 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, …

Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

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Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga.

Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

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You’ve been hanging around Louie to long. Flies aren’t supposed to get wet. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. Haven’t tried that one. But how about this one: sixteen beadhead pheasant tail nymphs tied in tandem. Toss that rig into the pool and it looks just like a pellet shower. Works every time! –Steve

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Rumor has it that one Waldosomebodyorother has ingeniously adapted a cotton candy machine to spin Trout Chow and glycerine into pseudo hair/hackle.  Deadly flies made from this marvelous "natural" and "organic" product are being manufactured by the millions in third world country slave labor camps and being readied for release as the Trout-O-Matic early in the Spring. Tom  (rumormonger) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, … Thanks for the report, Bruce. Some have had success fishing over recently stocked fish using a "brown wooly booger" slapped heavily on the surface. Matching the trout chow hatch, as it were. I wouldn’t want to embarrass anyone by divulging this "technique", but it’s been known to work on the stocker sections of the Watauga. — Ken Fortenberry

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 We’ve recently moved to the north end of town, near the east bank of the Rio Grande.  I’m on a dirt road for the first time in my life, and we’re the only home among six on our road that has no livestock.  Not fancy, but you can see the stars at night and we like it. On the west side of the river there’s a little old apple farming town that’s almost been swallowed by urban sprawl.  That little town has protected itself with zoning laws designed to preserve it’s rural characther, and it’s worked.  There’s also a spring creek running through that little town, next to the Rio Grande.  The creek was remanufactured (probably over 100 years ago) to run through a man made channel and it looks like an irrigation ditch.  Unlike all of the other ditches that make up the Albuquerque drain system, however, this one runs clear and cold all year long and has lots of aquatic plant life and insects.  There’s fish in there all year round, but in the winter it’s also stocked with rainbows.  The fish spread out over the length of the "clear ditch" and are very spooky.  The banks are also very high, which makes it difficult to be stealthy.  It’s known as my state’s most technically demanding flyfishing.  In five previous tries, usually consisting of a couple hours of fishing, I’ve caught a grand total of one pretty large rainbow. Thursday afternoon, I tried again, this time with a good friend from work.  We parked near another ditch, a muddy one, and started to get rigged up.  A fellow walking down the opposite bank asked if my truck was ok (maybe he thought I was parking in a strange place).  My friend asked if there’s a better place to park to fish the clear ditch, and our new friend obliged us by pointing me to a better place to park than I’ve ever discovered before, just through a small gate to a prime stretch of water.  My truck was the only vehicle there, but this spot was obviously not a secret.  You could tell people park there often. When we got to the ditch, there was no problem finding fish.  In the first depression we spotted a couple little rainbows that we managed not to spook.  No luck.  My friend was fishing tiny dries and I, tiny nymphs.  We moved all over and tried every trick we know to no avail. We’d fish where we saw fish and none of them were interested in our imitations.  There was a terrific hatch of small mayflies but our stocker friends in front of us weren’t feeding on them actively.  A couple of times, in frustration, we stood up on the bank and showed ourselves to the fish and instead of the two or three we had spotted, twenty or thirty of them would begin swirling in front of us but they wouldn’t leave the depression they were sitting in.  We weren’t catching any fish, but we were having fun trying. More fishermen appeared in our primo stretch of water.  The bait guys (two of them) kept their distance and fished from the bushes, drifting single eggs to the fish with no luck.  The other fly fishermen, however, were not a shy, asking us how we were doing, spooking fish as they walked past us up on the streambank.  There were four other fly fishermen, all kids, and they had no clue about fishing manners, but they were just kids and they were nice.  And we weren’t catching any fish anyway. I spotted a 15" carp and before i could cast to him, while trying to get into postition, lost sight of him.  He was real spooky.  My friend and I spent some more time walking to get away from the others and I had told my friend to keep an eye out for larger carp.  He called me over because he had spotted a ‘white’ fish and wanted me to drift my nymph to it.  He thought maybe it was a smaller carp an it was sitting on the bottom. My glasses must be better than his because i could tell right away that it was a white goldfish about 7 inches long, and he was flanked in the water by no less than 4 other goldfish, all gold.  Those goldfish must be selective feeders.  I tried midges, scuds, mayflies, all to no avail.  I thought SJ fish were selective!  Well, it got dark and we went home. So, if anyone wants to visit me and sight fish for goldfish, let me know bruce h — bare your soul let your spirit burn out along the road to no return – r.e. keen

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Question:

For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  

When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t suppose it depends upon the scales? — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjul00.html

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

City boy<g. Why when I was in school… — Charlie…

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G.

Really. One time I filled an Evian bottle with tap water and put it back in the refrigerator. My wife and kids never noticed the difference, but man were they pissed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people?

Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  Poor people who will not take charity.  Basically I’m someone who’s decided not to give money to charitable organizations (through a third party).  (I’ve done *work* for charitable organizations.) But, I’d happily buy a meal or give a gift to a poor family if I could find people who are actually poor and would accept something without finding me condascending.  This has happened to me, but the more I think about it, not often enough.  How do you find a person truly in need, and how would you actually approach them? Regards, Jeff

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way.

You had schools???  We used to sleep in a shoe box, and had to get up a half hour before we went to bed.  For breakfast we got a lump of cold poison. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

And you know what that spells backward….  :-) Regards, Jeff

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Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  

Giving money to panhandlers is the equivalent of feeding the bears at Yellowstone Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows?

Maybe so.  But I would still gladly buy a poor person a meal but not give money to some guy who profits from the transaction.  And I would rather buy someone a meal than give them the money.  It just pisses me off when I get scammed.  Just 2 weeks ago a guy in the parking lot of a supermarket told me his car broke down and he had to get his wife and daughter back home on the bus that night, so could he have enough money to pay for the 3 tickets.  As I was pondering this, it finally dawned on me that this was the same guy I gave money to almost exactly a year before, with the exact same shpiel (shp?) So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Regards, Jeff

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<good story snipped Nice story Mike.  Hopefully you will post this one to your website. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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"Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Surprisingly enough Ernie, you can live for a week or even considerably longer, on more or less nothing. Problems arise when this continues for long periods, and one is forced to eat stuff that one would not normally touch. I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days.  "Scraps" are the remains of fish, chips, batter etc soaked in lard, which are scraped out of the large frying pans used in fish and chip shops when they are cleaned. A bucket full cost a couple of pennies, and there was often a queue for this stuff.  I only ever ate the stuff a couple of times, but I can taste it still, and even the smell makes me feel ill.  I can not stomach even entering a fish and chip shop to this day, and I remember my wife being very surprised when we visited London once and she wanted to try fish and chips, and I simply could not stay in the queue which had  formed at the counter, as I was in severe danger of throwing up.  This sort of thing plays hell with peoples health as well.  It may not have appeared so in my story, but I was indeed one of the lucky ones, I had the means and the drive to go and catch fish, "find" "wayward" sheep, and even go and dig up "wild" potatoes or vegetables, or collect fruit and stuff in summer,  should this prove necessary. I also collected seacoal and wood, from the beaches, so we always had something to burn in winter, which was much more than many others had, and we never actually got anywhere even close to starving or freezing.  Although some I knew got close to it. Many of the people I knew at that time were sunk so deeply in apathy as a result of their poverty, that they could not help themselves, and even under those conditions, some were far too proud to accept "charity".  What little money they received from various sources, usually social security or similar, was often wasted in vain attempts at momentary escape from their respective plights, or even astoundingly enough,  pathetic attempts at "keeping up the show". Drunkenness was common, and many a wife and child beating took place, when some men lucky enough to have them, came home from their jobs late on a Friday night, after having drunk most of their relatively meagre pay in the local pubs. They were often also poorly educated, reviled by other sections of the community, and generally treated like dirt. Poverty is a deadly disease, it saps ones energy, removes any perspective of improvement for many, releases large amounts of criminal energy, mostly driven by hopelessness, and the feeling that things can get no worse anyway, whatever one does, often induces a positive fear of authority, and inevitably results in an early grave, as it did for both my father and my mother, and many many others I knew at that time. It may also reveal facets of human nature that are not normally obvious, not all of which are negative. A little kindness may cost a man of means virtually nothing, but may go a very long way to helping somebody far less fortunate. The world would be a far better place if some were bound to wonder as you did, how one may live on oranges for a week, and then consider those who did not even have the oranges, and in many places still do not. One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

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Mike,    I can understand why you would dislike fish and chips to this day. I had some at Ramsdens (sp?) in Northern England which were excellent. Ernie "Mike Connor" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days <snip TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC – .

And, indeed, Mike, you honor us all by doing so.  You certainly do not need my encouragement to continue your course, but you have it, nonetheless. Bravo! Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC

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Perhaps we are just perverse?

At the risk of having Ernie thump me on the head again I will repeat something I posted some time ago on ROFF.   It has been my experience that to most in America being hungry means trying to remember the last time you missed a meal.  In fact, being hungry means trying to remember the last time you HAD a good meal. Who’s perverse?

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An excellent analysis.  One other point occurred to me. Referring to a particular group of society as "the poor", is one of the reasons why people find it easy to avoid any identification with those so afflicted, it is easy to forget that we are talking about people here,  and the word itself is a stigma. As for many politicians, well I think it probably better to refrain from comment, waste of time anyway. Hardly seems worth the trouble criticising people who mainly appear to tell lies, and manipulate others for a living. If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows? I have not been hungry for a very long time either, but curiously enough, just like you, I remember exactly what it was like. In fact I remember it far more clearly than any of the times I have been ripped off, (also uncountable I fear),  or sat at sumptuous meals in equally sumptuous surroundings. Perhaps we are just perverse? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm,

        (snip)         simply amazing.  very, very few of us have ever been to that place. wayno

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Well, to paraphrase: Give a boy a fish and he feeds himself, teach him to fish, and he feeds a village… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Secondly, if you want to know how much a fish is worth, wait until you and your family are hungry, and carry a sackfull on your back to feed them. This will doubtless colour any subsequent ideas you might have on the matter considerably. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

So would a speller checker on this newsreader!!! Peter

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.

I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different. Regards, Jeff

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help. I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different.

Yes, there are cheats and slackers and no, it’s not part of the problem.  There are cheats and slackers in congress, in corporate offices, in academia, in churches, and in every other segment of society.  No one wants to dismantle any of these and no one thinks seriously about punishing them all for the sins of the few.  I repeat, it’s not part of the problem….it’s a different problem.  You are right about one thing; the people with the greatest means to help the poor generally do not live in close proximity.  Even when they do though, it is generally not the people with the greatest means who do the most to help.  Must be afraid of getting ripped off……might make them late for dinner. For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  I lost over forty pounds in that time and spent most of my time doing virtually nothing for lack of energy or incentive.  This is not a lament.  Unlike many millions of people around the world (and even here in the richest country in the history of the world) I always had options.  Eventually, I availed myself of an opportunity to get plugged back into the mainstream.  I have never been truly hungry since 1975, but I remember.  I’ve been ripped off lots of times since then….given money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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[reality snipped] When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.  Our current premier once remarked that single welfare mothers spend their money on beer.  One of his first acts was to substantially reduce both welfare payouts and eligibilty, putting many people onto the street.  He’s now out to privatise co-op housing – putting more on the street.  I can’t help thinking that a week of subsiting on a bucket of scraps would help his perspective immensely. Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm, pulling the collar up around my neck once more, I snuggled into the corner of the life-belt storage cupboard, and tried to think warm.  Walking the six miles or so along the clifftops and climbing down to the pier had kept me warm enough, and I had not really noticed how cold it was, but I was noticing now alright! Climbing up the icy steel pier legs in the pre-dawn dark with my gear had even caused me to start sweating, and I was paying for that now too. Cold sweat is very cold indeed.  Frosty clouds formed every time I exhaled, and the freezing spray from the stormy sea had soaked me fairly well through from the other side of my clothing as well. Nobody else was on the pier, quite unusual, as the tides were quite propitious, and the recent storms would almost certainly have brought some cod or whiting, and perhaps a few other fish closer in.  Leaving my temporary shelter, I moved out into the full force of the wind and spray, and surveyed the scene, dark clouds, swirling angry seas, and a long procession of heavy breakers crashing against the pier, causing it to  sway ominously under my feet.  Occasional banks of freezing fog rolled rapidly landwards, driven by a capricious but powerful wind, with clear patches now and again, allowing one odd glimpses of the land, and the cliff head, often covering the pier slipway, obliterating it, and making it seem as if one was standing on a tower with no land connection. Although dawn had broken, the weather was such that this was by no means apparent, it was still fairly dark, and it took me half an age to get my "storm-lantern",which consisted of a candle in a milk bottle with holes drilled around the bottom,  going, so that I had enough light to assemble my gear. This piece of equipment also did sterling service as a hand warmer. High tide was not for another two hours, but with freezing fingers occasionally warmed on the milk bottle, I painfully started to assemble my gear anyway.  Seven feet of solid fibreglass rod, an ancient wooden "Scarborough" centrepin reel with a hundred yards of forty pound line, an eight ounce lead, and a trace on which was mounted a set of three of my latest "secret weapons". Most of the blokes I met on the pier and elsewhere invariably laughed when seeing this for the first time, some kindly souls even offering me bait and other stuff, which however I always declined.  After a while, quite a few got to know me, as I literally haunted some venues when the fish were there, and was treated like a "regular", although even at that tender age I was considered eccentric, I was twelve at the time.  Not everybody knew my name, and many referred to me as "that fly-tying lad", not unkindly, but in that certain way that suggested I had at least a couple of screws loose.  Nobody actually tapped their foreheads, at least not in my presence, but I often got the feeling that they were about to. Fly-fishing at that time was something which the "gentry" did, and they did not do it in Winter in the North Sea. Standard procedure for serious sea anglers at the time was a multiplying reel, thirty to forty pound line, a minimum four ounce lead, and large baits, usually  consisting of lugworm, ragworm, peeler crab, herring strips, mussels, or various combinations of these. One or two hook rigs were used, these were cast out, the rod was put in a stand, or leaned against the pier railings etc, and a bite was awaited. Some clipped small bells on their rod tips and went to sleep while awaiting such a serendipitous event, others wandered around talking to their mates, smoking and drinking tea, or other "fortifying" beverages, often requiring them to make mad dashes down the length of the pier when their bells rung, and their rods threatened to go over the side. More well to do anglers, had "radium" lights, which were filled with luminescent radioactive gas, cost a veritable fortune, and were screwed or clipped to the rod tip. Occasionally some unfortunate would bugger up a cast, or forget to remove his clip light from his rod before casting, and the light sailed off into the distance, often accompanied by a cracking sound as the terminal tackle followed it on its way to the watery depths, which in turn was accompanied by a steady stream of inventive and colourful profanity, often to the amusement and elucidation of all present, especially some of the younger lads, who presumably laboured for some considerable time under the misapprehension that "fucking" and similar equally unprintable epithets had something to do with radioactive tip-lights. Someone chucking a bell away was not nearly as enlightening for bystanders, and elicited rather less interest. Some inevitably became curious about my gear, especially if I had caught a bagfull on my "hairy fancies" as one gentleman once described my flies. My intention at that time when fishing, was invariably to catch a bagfull, and that in the cheapest and most efficient way possible. My family, and not a small number of my neighbours, depended on it for a decent dinner.  Having had some success with flies in freshwater, I had turned my attentions to the North Sea, as the fish were usually bigger, and there were a lot more of them. Bait was difficult to acquire, and was far too expensive to buy, so I had resolved to try "fly-fishing" there as well. This particular set of "hairy fancies" were made up of 3/0 Mustad stainless steel "beak" hooks, wrapped with silver tinsel, and sporting "wings" of various coloured bucktail.  My technique was quite simple, albeit somewhat strenuous. With a  two or three step "run-up", a whirl very similar to that performed by a hammer thrower,  and a mighty twisting overhead heave, usually instilling considerable fear and amazement in the hearts and minds of any innocent bystanders, especially those who used "normal" gear, even in those who had seen it before, putting an awe inspiring bend into the old solid glass rod, the heavy wooden centrepin was forced into revolving at a speed for which it was never designed, producing thereby the most amazing noises, faintly reminiscent of a defective differential gear, or a rusty dungeon door being swung at high speed. This despite regular applications of fat to the "bearing", the while being braked by the thumb of my right hand to prevent the otherwise inevitable and horrendous "birds nest",  and the "flies" hurtled out, carried by the eight ounce lead, to land with an almighty splash, which could be heard even in the worst of storms and gales, as it was rarely more than about forty yards away when it struck the water. Which circumstance however had the pleasant side-effect of always assuring me plenty of room, even when the pier was crowded. My "flies" were then retrieved at various speeds and in various modes, until I caught a fish.  This happy event occurred surprisingly often, much to the chagrin of those who had previously laughed, and who notwithstanding their veritable armouries of wonderful and often expensive equipment had still not caught anything. Fortunately nobody was frightened half to death on this occasion, as there was nobody there. Having assembled my gear, I essayed my first cast of the day. This cast was always of the utmost importance, and had to be executed with considerable care, in fact the first few casts had to be done in such a way, as otherwise a jam up was quite likely, and the loss of expensive terminal gear inevitable. A careful and relatively modest thirty yard cast was the order of the day. Having accomplished this, I took up the slack, and placing the line over my right index finger, the butt of my rod tucked under my elbow, and my left hand supporting it by holding the rim of the reel, I started a jigging retrieve. Thump! and thump! again, heaving back on the rod I struck, and proceeded to haul in a couple of lively fish, beautiful whiting well over a pound each. These were hauled straight up the thirty foot drop by winding in, despatched, unhooked, and the next cast was prepared. In all the now well over forty years I have been fishing, I have never had a session like I had that day, and I will never do so again, as nowadays I would cease to fish after getting a few good ones.  The fish were there, a large shoal of hungry whiting and they were biting like crazy, I was hauling up two or three fish every cast, some really nice sized ones as well, but all were at least sizeable. Even in those days I was an optimist, and I had brought two large sacks with me and a polythene bag, which was actually designed to be used as a makeshift raincoat should the weather be really nasty.  I filled both sacks and the bag, and continued to fish like a lunatic, the pile of fish on the pier behind me continued to grow apace, but still I carried on, as if in a trance. Several people had now come on to the pier which had opened in the meantime, and stood watching, some started fishing, but I was oblivious to everything, and continued almost mechanically hauling up fish after fish. . Some time after mid-day I came to my senses, and viewed the carnage all around me.  I reeled in my gear and started gutting and filleting fish, several people asked if they might have a fish, and I told them to help themselves.  For several hours I filleted fish like a madman, emptying the sacks and the bag again on to the boards, and filleting those too,and even after filleting everything, and throwing all the guts and even the heads away as well, something I would not usually have done, as they made excellent soup, I still had two large sacks full of solid fish fillets, which I could only just lift. It took me almost seven hours to get home, and was well after dark  long before I got there. Carrying one sack a few hundred yards along the beach, dumping it, … read more »

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Question:

Trouble-having problem castin size 6 flies w/ 4 wt. rod. If I use 2x tippet will that help or do I need to back up to a 7wt. rod? Like to catch 1/2 pounders on a light rod.

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Rook2 writes:

<<Trouble-having problem castin size 6 flies w/ 4 wt. rod. If I use 2x tippet will that help or do I need to back up to a 7wt. rod? Like to catch 1/2 pounders on a light rod. A 2X leader/tippet is good for #6 – 10 flies.  A 1X is good for #4 – 8.  You might try teither one; however, you should have little problem casting #6s with a 4 wt. as long as they are not heavily weighted.  Are we talking streamers here, or nymphs? Wooly Buggers?  Trout, bass?  A bigger rod would help (5 or 6wt), but I do not think that is your problem. Dave LaCourse

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bead head brindlebugs for steelhead, thanks for reply. Sounds like heavier tppet should wor even on 4 wt. rod

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Use a heavier leader but consider heavier leaders won’t sink as fast or flow w/ the current as well. I will sometimes use a real heavy leader w/ lighter tippet it is harder to cast but better then too light a leader butt. The butt sections of difffernt size leaders and different brands make a difference. Ones may have a 0.24 or 0.20 (I think thats right)  pick out the brand w/ the heavier butt a 3x from one company or style of leader may differ from 3x. of another brand, read the back of the package, also some tippets may be too limp or to stiff like saltwater tippet.  

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On some occasions, a leader with a thinner butt diameter is better.  When fishing downstream, the thinner leader allows your fly to stay downstream of the leader and fly line. tyler

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a heavier leader but consider heavier leaders won’t sink as fast or flow w/ the current as well. I will sometimes use a real heavy leader w/ lighter tippet it is harder to cast but better then too light a leader butt. The butt sections of difffernt size leaders and different brands make a difference. Ones may have a 0.24 or 0.20 (I think thats right)  pick out the brand w/ the heavier butt a 3x from one company or style of leader may differ from 3x. of another brand, read the back of the package, also some tippets may be too limp or to stiff like saltwater tippet.

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Question:

The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon.  The next year, we did the same.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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Jerry Schrader: <<The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon. The next year, we did the same. Shhhhhhhhh, Jerry.  Remember, there are NO fish in Maine except pickeral and bass. Dave LaCourse

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Dave Tatosian: (snipped) <<- and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) Oh, the word is out, Dave.  Unfortunately.  But I know folks that have been there and won’t go back because they didn’t catch any fish.  Being put on a body of water with salmon and trout doesn’t mean you can *catch* them.  It is a special river that requires years to learn.  I’ve seen "outsider" guides have a zilch day when all the "regulars" were taking fish. Salmon for breakfast —– oh, if only I could have some of Jan’s fresh salmon with bacon.  BTW, Stan does much of the breakfast cooking.  I can tell the difference between their scrambled eggs – Stan’s are fluffier. Dave LaCourse

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Jerry Schrader: I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours. It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

I’ll add: – by the end of a long day of enjoying the river – and stuffed with the best camp cooking you’ll ever find (and a few gin and tonics if you please ;^) – you’ll conk out under your pile of blankets so fast you won’t care that the fire dies down in a couple of hours. – the brisk morning air will help you to pop out of bed to get in an hour of fishing before the marvelous breakfasts that the cook (Janne Provincer) provides. (btw: If you’re lucky enough to catch a good keeper salmon, have it baked for breakfast with a few strips of bacon draped over it. Yum!) – don’t *ever* try to sneak into the main building with your waders on (Sue will feed your privates to the crawfish!) – and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) /dave ps: Louise Dickenson Rich wrote a series of novels about the river from Richardson Lake down to Umbagog, and the people of her times there. "We Took To The Woods" is an excellent winter read, as is the sequel "My Neck Of The Woods". You’ll find some outstanding photos that show things as they were around 60 years back…

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Jerry Schrader: <<I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

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I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

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Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

Hi Ralph. Here are contacts for Grant’s and Lakewood. Grant’s Kennebago Camps P.O. Box 786 Rangely, Maine  04970 (207) 864-3608 summer (207) 282-5264 winter (800) 633-4815 out of state Lakewood Camps P.O. Address Andover, Maine 04216 Phone 207-392-1581 I’ll see if I can dig up an "off season" phone number for Lakewood. While Stan and Sue Milton close down the camp for the winter, they have been working at Sunday River (ski area) while there’s snow so they’re somewhere in the area. But I’m not sure if they have the camp number ring at their winter quarters. Again, if there’s an outdoor show (as usual) at Worcester, that’d be a great place to meet the various camp operators. Regards, /dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above

camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

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Dave Tatosian: <<You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… I concur with Dave — best fishin and best camp.  Stan and Sue Milton run a classy joint with great fishing and food at a very resonable price.  E-mail me for their phone number. Expect anything with the Libby name to be a class act.  Great people and they have been doing it for years.  Please e-mail me if you want Mat Libby’s e-mail address.   Dave LaCourse

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I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s

I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave

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10/28/98 Hello: I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at:                                     Grant’s                                     Bosebuck                                     Tim Pond                                     Libby’s Thanks, Bob Rose

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Question:

I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano i do not know which vancouver you are asking about (B.C. or WA), both have great fishing nearby.  if you meant vancouver, wa you might try The Greased Line Fly Shop at 360-573-9383.  i have been in a couple times and they are knowledgeable in the ways of steelhead. Enjoy the west coast while you’re out here.  If you meant BC, forget this message

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

If Vancouver BC: Babcock’s 931-5044 Michael & Young’s 588-2833 Outdoors unlimited 463-0707 Ruddick’s 434-2420(Burnaby) or 681-3747 (Granville Island – downtown) Terminal Tackle 536-4665 B.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano If Vancouver BC: Babcock’s 931-5044 Michael & Young’s 588-2833 Outdoors unlimited 463-0707 Ruddick’s 434-2420(Burnaby) or 681-3747 (Granville Island – downtown) Terminal Tackle 536-4665 B.

Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til the end of the month. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til   the end of the month.

How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. thanks,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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SNIP How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. thanks,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Burnaby store is older, larger, more stuff, more selection, less swanky.  They also offer fly tying classes there.                         -cheers — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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:   Ruddicks in Burnaby will be moving soon.  They have a sale on stuff ’til :   the end of the month. : How does (did) the Burnaby branch compare to the Granville Island : store in terms of selection etc.  I’ve never been to that branch. The store out in Burnaby was "the big one", while the one on Granville Island was a small one meant to snag a few bucks from the large number of folks who go down to the island daily. Not certain why they’re closing out that location. I like Michael & Young; I also visit a little place called "Hanson’s" (perhaps "Hansen’s") in the high-rent district in downtown Van (it’s on Hornby, I believe, only a couple of blocks from my employer’s corporate offices in the Waterfron Centre). Not big, few tying supplies, but you can buy a rod and a few flies, or book a guide who can speak Japanese or Cantonese or German. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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For Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada I would recommend my favorite, Michael & Young Flyshop in Surrey, a suburb of Vancouver.(604-588-2833) The shop is a short walk (1/2 mile) from the Surrey skytrain station by Surrey Centre Mall (30 min. skytrain ride from downtown).  They supply equipment and excellent advice to flyfishermen looking for action locally, at  not too distant hotspots like Kamloops, Merritt, or Vancouver Island (2-3 hrs drive) or even in exotic places like Mexico.  Ruddicks Fly Shop in Burnaby (another suburb) may be closer and is supposed to provide similar service, though I haven’t been there. (604-434-2420) Hope you enjoy your trip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops,

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I’m an italian fly fisherman,i will be in Vancouver for the next August i need some address of fly fishing shops, thanks Massimiliano

For Vancouver BC try Hanson’s Fishing Outfitters, 102-580 Hornby Street, in downtown Vancouver. Ph 604 684 8988.  They also have a web site but I don’t know the URL. Peter Sealy

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Question:

Any recommendations on lightweight float tubes? I have a conventional one but am looking for one to backpack into the MT backcountry lakes that I am  fortunate to live near. I’ve rigged this one on a aluminum frame but anything 3 miles it gets a bit heavy. Caddis makes an ultralight – basic tube w/ no pockets or back. Is this worth the weight savings. Or should I get the Caddis U-Boat? Any thoughts on quality or cost? Thanks.

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Any recommendations on lightweight float tubes?

Even my big ol’ Caddis is backpackable, at least for short distances. Aside from that, spend a little more than you can afford, you’ll be glad you did. Anglerboy

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(John Kelley) writes: Caddis makes an ultralight – basic tube w/ no pockets or back. Is this worth the weight savings. Or should I get the Caddis U-Boat?

My first tube was a caddis ultralight.  It had no backrest and thus only one inflatable compartment.  Two compartments is minimum required by law to use on many lakes in both CA and OR. Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Question:

Could someone help me with some info on the patterns which would be best for fishing the Muskegon or Au Sable rivers in Michigan in 2-3 weeks.  We are going to Grand Haven to visit my family for 2 weeks and I would like to get some fishing in.  I tie my own, so if you can suggest any conventional pattern, or give me a short description for local patterns I would be eternally grateful. Thanks, Jack Holton Denver, CO "Rasthedog"

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Look up the "white-gloved Howdey" in Caucci and Nastasi’s book, Hatches II. I use size 14.  The book also has hatch charts that can really help. Could someone help me with some info on the patterns which would be best for fishing the Muskegon or Au Sable rivers in Michigan in 2-3 weeks.  We are going to Grand Haven to visit my family for 2 weeks and I would like to get some fishing in.  I tie my own, so if you can suggest any conventional pattern, or give me a short description for local patterns I would be eternally grateful. Thanks, Jack Holton Denver, CO "Rasthedog" Regards, John Sirmans

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Could someone help me with some info on the patterns which would be best for fishing the Muskegon or Au Sable rivers in Michigan in 2-3 weeks.  We

Call Steve Southard, owner of the fly factory in Grayling MI at (517) 348-5844.  He should be able to give you some info.  Rusty Gates also has a nice shop up there, but I don’t have his number handy. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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Rusty Gates phone #: 517-348-8462; Johnson’s Pere Marquette Lodge 616-745-3972. All three places (incl. the Fly Factory) should also be able to provide you with a guide if you are unfamiliar with the water. have fun – should be plenty of salmon in the waters in mid-Sept.

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Organization: IQuest Network Services X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.91.6 (AnnRMiller) says: Rusty Gates phone #: 517-348-8462; Johnson’s Pere Marquette Lodge 616-745-3972. All three places (incl. the Fly Factory) should also be able to provide you with a guide if you are unfamiliar with the water. have fun – should be plenty of salmon in the waters in mid-Sept.

There are a couple web sites you might try: http://www.novagate.com/~bscheere/bens.html (Ben’s flyfishing corner, contains info on PM, Ausable, Muskegon and Kalamazoo rivers) http://oeonline.com/~rmarsh/fishpg.html (Ricks flyfishing page, contains info on Ausable) For hatches you’ll probably see BLO, trico’s and caddis. Tight lines, Bob

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Question:

I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

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I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) But seriously, there is lots of great fly fishing all across the country.  I live in British Columbia and use minnow imitations for sea run cutthroat trout in coastal waters,  colourful flys for summer steel head in coastal streams, and traditional insect patterns for lakes and streams in the interior of the Province.

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 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^)

Jeez …. I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting!

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 In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) Jeez …. I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting!

O.K. your right,  I was off by about 350 miles!  Still a really huge country. But while were on the subject of Newfoundland – do you know why the Newfy was happy to hear that Quebec was leaving Canada……because the drive to Toronto would be so much closer!

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I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm

Hi, Canada is a BIG country, your choice of flies and gear will depend on where you are going. If you are interested in Novca SAcotia, I can help you out and would be more than pleased to do something with you even. Our specialty is teaching flyfishing to youngsters (16 years experience and nationally certified coaching level one). If you are interested in NS, drop me a line, even if you are coming here and don’t want them to flyfish, I think I could probably still help you out ! Tight Lines !00 Little Harbour Road, Lockeport Nova Scotia Canada  B0T 1L0 ph/fax 902-656-3329

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Never was too good a Geography, even in the good ole USA. I should have said that I was going to the Boundary Waters above Minn. Maybe I’ll come out and try the minnows pattern like you suggest. Any tips a little further east of BC? Norm

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:  In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from : Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) : Jeez …. : I thought since ‘49 it started at Newfoundland on the east coast. : I hope the NF and Labrador outfitters don’t read your posting! Thanks Don. Sorry I couldn’t make your conference. Still hoping to wangle a means of getting over to fish the Miramichi and maybe even talk about multimedia Jack  – Newfoundland and Labrador Science  and Technology Advisory Council                Tel     (709) 738-3400 114 Empire Ave., St. John’s, NF    A1B 1C7      Fax     (709) 738-3276

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m taking a Troop of Boy Scouts to Canada this July. To preserve my sanity I’m taking my fly rig. Anybody got some hot tips on the best flys and equipment to use? also if you have any info on what the boys should spin fish with we would appreciate it.  Thanks norm In case no one told you, Canada is a little bit bigger than the U.S.A and spans the continient from Nova Scotia on the Atlantic to British Columbia on the Pacific ;^) But seriously, there is lots of great fly fishing all across the country.  I live in British Columbia and use minnow imitations for sea run cutthroat trout in coastal waters,  colourful flys for summer steel head in coastal streams, and traditional insect patterns for lakes and streams in the interior of the Province.

Just to clarify: Canada Spans from Newfoundland to British Columbia, Not Nova Scotia to British Columbia,  There are about 500000 Newfoundlanders who don’t like being forgotten. Thanks Chris Newfoundland, Canada

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