Question:

My friend Michael had some unusual interest a couple of years ago while fishing a P&O it was taken on his backcast by a dragonfly. Later while he was telling his fishing partner about this it happened again and it was witnessed. Each yearwhile at the Southern Conclave in Mountain Home i tie a dozen for the kids who fish togeather in a kids only section of the Norfolk River and only last year did they not take a bunch of fish for them. Last year was real different cause I have a friend that said that it was the first year in the last seventeen years that soft hackles did not work for him in that river during the conclave. This is another of the many things that I find that I do not pretend to understand. Soft hackles and bamboo rods seem to go togeather very well. You might want to tie up a few of the old Arkansas pattern called the Red Ass which is simply a partridge and peacock hurl tied with a red thread abdomen. Big Dale

You had sent me the recipe on the Red Ass before and I had forgotten it, thanks for the reminder.  I’m sure I can cook up some steelhead friendly versions of it too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

My friend Michael had some unusual interest a couple of years ago while fishing a P&O it was taken on his backcast by a dragonfly. Later while he was telling his fishing partner about this it happened again and it was witnessed

This happened to a buddy of mine two years ago! The dragonfly was actually trying to fly off with his fly. He pulled it in and cast the dragonfly into the creek (still gnawing his fly) which was immediately attacked and mostly consumed by a trout, leaving him with a dragonfly-head-on-a-fly to cast about. He caught no fish with just the head. Sean

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Tying the old north country style of wet flies is very addictive. Big Dale

Okay Dale, define that for me, please? — (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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Here you go George: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/emt3/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tying the old north country style of wet flies is very addictive. Big Dale Okay Dale, define that for me, please? —

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Funny how great minds think alike. About a year ago while tying at a weekly meeting of The Roadkill Roundtable my mind started wandering and I put a size 14 wet fly hook in the vise and started with about 5 fibers of zelon as a trailing shuck. I had a 12 pack of superfine dubbing with me so I then dubbed a body of chartreuse. Then I added a collar of bobwhite quail tied like you said with the fibers stripped from one side of the feather. I am sorry that I did not think of the read head. Mine worked very well last summer for my beloved bluegills and last fall for a few rainbows over in Arkansas. I am looking forward to hearing how they work for you. Tying the old north country style of wet flies is very addictive. Big Dale

These old wets were the first flies I tied and used. My first fish on my own fly was a half pound largemouth on a Partridge and Orange that a had fished on a slow pulse retrieve.  All of my early trout were either taken on a P&O or an EHC.  A few months ago, I picked up some Pearsall’s silk and a starling skin – they’re still sitting on the bench.  Perhaps this weekend. I’ll let you know how they work for ‘gills too, once the warm weather arrives. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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my own fly was a half pound largemouth on a Partridge and Orange that a had fished on a slow pulse retrieve.  All of my early trout were either taken on a P&O or an EHC.  

My friend Michael had some unusual interest a couple of years ago while fishing a P&O it was taken on his backcast by a dragonfly. Later while he was telling his fishing partner about this it happened again and it was witnessed. Each yearwhile at the Southern Conclave in Mountain Home i tie a dozen for the kids who fish togeather in a kids only section of the Norfolk River and only last year did they not take a bunch of fish for them. Last year was real different cause I have a friend that said that it was the first year in the last seventeen years that soft hackles did not work for him in that river during the conclave. This is another of the many things that I find that I do not pretend to understand. Soft hackles and bamboo rods seem to go togeather very well. You might want to tie up a few of the old Arkansas pattern called the Red Ass which is simply a partridge and peacock hurl tied with a red thread abdomen. Big Dale

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the bug making business.  On Friday, my big steelie took a plain old Partridge & Orange yet the float rodder who ended up with seven on the day, swears by anything chartreuse.  So add 2 + 2 and I’m tying up size 12 Partridge & Flos on a Kamasan B175 (same as a Mustad 3906) in fluorescent green, chartreuse, or yellow using Uni’s Neon 1/0 braided thread plus a flo red 6/0 head .

Funny how great minds think alike. About a year ago while tying at a weekly meeting of The Roadkill Roundtable my mind started wandering and I put a size 14 wet fly hook in the vise and started with about 5 fibers of zelon as a trailing shuck. I had a 12 pack of superfine dubbing with me so I then dubbed a body of chartreuse. Then I added a collar of bobwhite quail tied like you said with the fibers stripped from one side of the feather. I am sorry that I did not think of the read head. Mine worked very well last summer for my beloved bluegills and last fall for a few rainbows over in Arkansas. I am looking forward to hearing how they work for you. Tying the old north country style of wet flies is very addictive. Big Dale

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The fishing season will start in a couple of weeks and so I was doing some preparations. I decided to dress some basic flypatterns. After  sitting in front of my tying vise and having tied some nice Buck caddis and GRHE goldhead I had been bored of these. So I asked myself a question; which other patterns should I dress and are there any other useful things to do with my fishing gear? I start with my results and hope of some other ROFF(T) hints: Do some pheasant tail nymphs and Adams. Exchange your leaders, which means for me make some new furled leaders. Best Regards and tight lines Wim

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Well, if guys could see what I’m tying now, I’d be drummed out of the bug making business.  On Friday, my big steelie took a plain old Partridge & Orange yet the float rodder who ended up with seven on the day, swears by anything chartreuse.  So add 2 + 2 and I’m tying up size 12 Partridge & Flos on a Kamasan B175 (same as a Mustad 3906) in fluorescent green, chartreuse, or yellow using Uni’s Neon 1/0 braided thread plus a flo red 6/0 head .  Tie on the 1/0 flo, and wrap over a few strands of mallard for the tail, wrap back and tie off.  Tie on the red flo and add two turns of partridge spider style (one side trimmed off.)  It actually doesn’t look all that bad and I think it just might work.   Picture to follow on ABPF.  Field tests due this week.  Stay tuned. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

WOW….somebody’s going to write in my name….. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Who do you trust?  What are you people arguing about?  Both Bush and Gore are four letter words and you’re going to get it no matter which you vote for. Clinton machine is dead in the water as is Gore who was every bit as much a liar as Bill is.  Difference is, during times of war they executed traitors didn’t they?  Gore was just as much responsible for selling America out to China as anyone.  Basically, if elected by the ignorant, the same crew will run this country from in the basement as before.  Yes, a few cosmetic changes but nothing you will ever notice. Gore will get more of your guns and freedoms to bear arms will be weakened ever more. Bush will get more of your last remaining forests, not that anyone here can do anything about it.  All of you can kiss Alaska Oil Reserves good bye for this state will have it’s heart ripped out for its oil. Basically, all of you are going to be Gored or Bushed.  You deserve what you get.  To stop this kind of idiocy, you need to abolish the Federal Reserve.  Have Congress buy them out.  They’re just a private investment company anyhow, raping America for money. Let’s all face it.  They’re BOTH lousy choices.  Vote for a change, at least.  Vote for the man that will leave your gun ownership alone and we know who that is because your guns are the ultimate remaining power that controls the government, one would think. Awe, nuts!  Back to fly fishing the muddy rivers due to clearcutting. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

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Who do you trust?  What are you people arguing about?  Both Bush and Gore are four letter words and you’re going to get it no matter which you vote for. Clinton machine is dead in the water as is Gore who was every bit as much a liar as Bill is.  Difference is, during times of war they executed traitors didn’t they?  Gore was just as much responsible for selling America out to China as anyone.  Basically, if elected by the ignorant, the same crew will run this country from in the basement as before.  Yes, a few cosmetic changes but nothing you will ever notice. Gore will get more of your guns and freedoms to bear arms will be weakened ever more. Bush will get more of your last remaining forests, not that anyone here can do anything about it.  All of you can kiss Alaska Oil Reserves good bye for this state will have it’s heart ripped out for its oil. Basically, all of you are going to be Gored or Bushed.  You deserve what you get.  To stop this kind of idiocy, you need to abolish the Federal Reserve.  Have Congress buy them out.  They’re just a private investment company anyhow, raping America for money. Let’s all face it.  They’re BOTH lousy choices.  Vote for a change, at least.  Vote for the man that will leave your gun ownership alone and we know who that is because your guns are the ultimate remaining power that controls the government, one would think. Awe, nuts!  Back to fly fishing the muddy rivers due to clearcutting.   — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

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Question:

Reading G’s nicely written posts about a tough caddis hatch and RW’s response (which I happen to agree with), got me thinking about a very versatile and simple tie I use alot during lower water conditions. I don’t like to change flies. I feel that, most of the time, if you present the right sized fly IN THE WAY THE FISH WANT IT, you will have more success. More success than using the "right" fly presented slightly wrong. This is a debate that has gone on as long as people have been fly fishing and I’m just stating my take on it. I’d rather use my time making changes in presentation than in changing flies. The tie is as simple as can be and is nothing special.  It is very drab to look at and, for this reason, will never be popular. Its strength is its versatility. The tie has a scraggly body of dubbing. I often use an antron mix but I’m not sure this is important. The wing consists of sparsely tied, somewhat short Elk hair. I usually use a light color because it is easier to see. No hackle is used and the head is just the thread from wrapping down the ends of the Elk hair. That’s it. In the low water conditions, when I generally use it, I mainly fish a size 18 but also use it in a 20 and a 16. The fly can be effective during a variety of hatches.  I used a size 18 successfully while I fished for about an hour this AM during a Trico spinner fall. A 20 usually works during midge hatches. The 18 covers a variety of the smaller early and late season Mays and Caddis. Fishing the fly: I usually go through the following sequence in trying to determine how to best fish the fly. Upstream drag free float with the fly on the surface Upstream drag free drift with the fly in the film Upstream "drag free" drift with the saturated fly drifting along in mid to bottom current keeping very light contact with the fly by following the fly with the rod tip and removing all slack as the fly drifts down Dry off the fly Up and across stream, rod tip kept high doing some skittering across the current. The heavier the current the more skittering.   Up and across stream, pull the fly under and retrieve the fly across the current Up and across stream, pull the fly under and do a "traditional" wet   fly drift, mending to allow the fly to sink and allowing the fly        the hang in the current at the end of the drift. Then the fly is    lifted and skittered across the surface The skittering techniques often results in missed strikes or refusals. However, it tells you where a feeding fish is and you can usually take it with one of the other type of drifts.   The above routine works best for actively feeding fish. In water from inches to about three foot deep (depending on current speed), the water can be covered from top to bottom with no terminal tackle changes. Willi

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Dry off the fly

What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….? Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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Dry off the fly What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….?

Whatever.  I usually just use my shirt. Willi

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Jeffnc I usually false cast it two or three times, then blow on it and shake it in desiccant powder and re coat it with floatant.  If that doesn’t work I replace it. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dry off the fly What do you do here – blow on it, use some drying pad, shake it in dessicant….? Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

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I printed this post and will study it.  I’ve always read willi’s posts, but now that i have fished with the guy….  i’ll memorize them. That post really can help speed up the learning curve.  Great Stuff Willi. The western clavesters don’t call him the Troutmaster for nothing, and he’s a very modest and super friendly person to boot. Hmmmm…. changing presentations.  I was the guy in montana constantly changing flies and lead, now i’ll deliberately try different presentations beforehand. bruiser Before you buy.

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Willi: I am trying to visualize this fly. Is it like an elk-hair caddis, with the wing tied trude style, no hackle?? Tim Lysyk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – its versatility. The tie has a scraggly body of dubbing. I often use an antron mix but I’m not sure this is important. The wing consists of sparsely tied, somewhat short Elk hair. I usually use a light color because it is easier to see. No hackle is used and the head is just the

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Question:

Visit the Austin Flyfishers at http:\www.austinflyfishers.org We have lot’s of local knowledge and some great outings

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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Thanks for all the replies.  I have ordered my book and look forward to trying my luck here in Texas. Anyone ever fish the Guadalupe near Comfort?  I will be there this weekend. When I was a kid, I used to catch bass and perch pretty easily there.  Last time I tried about two years ago I saw zero fish. Dave    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

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I haven’t fished the Guadelupe in several years…just never had much confidence in that river. After looking at some web sites, scanning recent reports, have become interested again. Mostly curious as to details re DRY fly fishing on this river, as I’ve heard mostly about nymphs and wets. Do dries work here? What sections, what times of day, time of year, types of flies? Hope to start getting out there in Dec.-Jan. Thanks! ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

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Go by the Austin Angler and pick up a copy of "Fly Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy.  It has pretty much all you need to get you going. Course if you already have a can of corn and want to stand elbow to elbow …. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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I was in there this afternoon and they still had a stack of them. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

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<<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

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Question:

This group makes me think about where things are going in our sport. I like to pick out trends I see, fantasize about them and follow them to their extreme conclusions.  Below is one of the perverted, but maybe not too far fetched, scenarios I came up with. Jim and Bob arrived at the Neiman Marcus Orvis shop and met up with Rod, their guide for the day.  They were looking forward for a chance to get away from it all and rip some lips on the famous Turquoise river. A short ride took them to the base of the massive dam. While they were waiting for the Ranger directing traffic to give them the OK to launch, Rod started checking out their equipment. It was the latest and still showroom fresh. "I’m going to replace that 20X tippet you have on for some 15X. 20X is good enough for the little 10 or 15 pounders but when we get into some good fish you’ll be glad you have the 15X," He said. "What’s the new, hot fly?" Jim asked. "Rod’s Killer Krill (patent pending)," Rod replied, "Since they engineered the krill to live in fresh water and stocked the reservoir with them, that’s all the hogs will eat. They won’t even open their mouths for any of the insects that fishermen used to imitate. The fly is tied with Natural Scent Dubbing, so it smells and tastes just like krill, as well as looks like it. It’s the only fly you’ll need." The Ranger signaled to them that their turn had come and they quickly launched their boat and proceeded down stream. Rod skillfully maneuvered the craft to maintain the mandated 20′ between them and other boats. After a short drift, they arrived at the first hole and Rod switched to auto pilot to maintain distance and keep their place in line. He then started his instruction, "These fish are something special. By combining DNA from extinct species, they engineered a Super Trout that fights like an Atlantic Salmon, grows huge like a King and has the beauty of a Greenback Trout. They’re sterile, so all they think about is food and with the dam regulated temperatures and flows, all they do is eat all day, everyday." "They line up all across the bottom, gobbling up every krill that passes. All you need to do is cast up stream and with your Indi-glasses you’ll be able to follow the electro-indicator in your fly as it drifts along the bottom.  When your fly disappears, set the hook because it’s been eaten." The guys started casting.  Jim had fished a little when he was a kid and was having some trouble because he kept fighting the rod by trying to cast on his own. Rod said, "Just let the rod and reel do their job, quit fighting them. Throw a short length of line behind you, hold the rod straight up and let its molecular memory do the rest.  The reel will keep feeding out line and when your cast is far enough, drop the rod tip." The advice helped Jim and after his third decent cast, he got the first hook up. Rod cheered him on, praising Jim’s skill while knowing full well that with the 100 lb. test 15X tippet and the "smart" rod, Jim could land a truck. Fishing was great, as usual, and either Jim or Bob had on a fish every 20 or so casts. They made slow, steady progress down stream, filling in the spot vacated by the boat just below them. After releasing another 30 pounder, Rod reminded them, "This is a restricted take, Trophy river. The first fish caught under 4 pounds must be kept and the fishing for that angler stopped for the day." Rod knew that the state only stocked "Super" trout over 4 pounds in the upper river but in "Keeper Hole", just above the take out, they stocked plenty of old fashion stockers. This was a perfect arrangement for the outfitters, their clients could C&R hogs for a couple of hours, then catch their dinner just before take out. Things, as usual, went according to plan. Jim and Bob caught lots of fish that Rod recorded on Stereo Tape before releasing them. Jim and Bob each caught their dinner and Rod got his tip. That evening while eating their trout dinner and drinking their favorite tiny-mini-micro brew, Trout Sweat, Jim turned to Bob and said, "You know, it just doesn’t get any better than this." Willi

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Willi Thats not a fantasy; its a nightmare. But you do have the writer’s touch. How about another scenario;  one where Jim and Bob remember how the fisheries Dr. Frankensteins had been making great progress on the supertrout, and Bob and Jim had even caught a few in the experimental river, but the whole technology had been lost when some crazed old coot from an island somewhere near Seattle had burned their lab to the ground, hunted down every last one of the technologists, but finally succumbed to the authorities screaming something about deconstructing the meniscus. Dave

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Actually, the guys at Macrohard are working on a virtual reality fly fishing kit. You can plug it in any time,any where. Choose the type of fishing you want (small stream, lake, saltwater, etc.), level of difficulty, wind direction/speed, if the fish are easy or hard to land, etc. The game comes with a virtual fly rod that you wave around…if you present the fly well and you tie your virtual fly onto your virtual tippet ok, the virtual fish will take. What a kick. Also, you can choose if you want Cindy Crawford as your guide. If you choose Cindy, she gives you a kiss everytime you land a fish. You get the sensation of the fish fighting through the virtual rod. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Bob E., Rochester, NY

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What is ya? Ignernt?

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Question:

Thanks. I’d love to go there, maybe next year! Miikeh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very Nice,         maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)   like Hat creek or the Pit River.

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If anyone is intersted, I have a new fly fishing site.  It’s nothing fancy, but I would appreciate any input or suggestions.  It has lots of pictures of streams I fish near my home in Minneapolis and other streams out west.  I also will be posting the current stream conditions for spots as I fish ‘em. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mmhodg/ Thanks. MikeH

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Very Nice,          maybe some day I will see my local waters (On your site)    like Hat creek or the Pit River.

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Question:

Don’t think so. It’s more like: 25% bullsh-t, 50% garbage and 25% junk. What a waste! Allan

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Don’t think so. It’s more like: 25% bullsh-t, 50% garbage and 25% junk. What a waste! Allan

Let me guess…you’re new to the internet (and USENET). This is not a "site" this is a newsgroup.  Just a bunch of random people who talk about a topic or mostly whatever happens to come out of their keyboards.  Don’t like it? Don’t come here.  There are no rules and no services are provided, you get out of this group what is contributed to it. Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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Don’t think so. It’s more like: 25% bullsh-t, 50% garbage and 25% junk. What a waste!

Make that 26% bullshit Allan (considering your useless whining drivel of a post). — OBROFF – Flyfishing through convalesence….I recently broke ribs playing basketball…it hurt to do anything.  Tying flies required that an arm be propped up.  But, while tying…having the mental image of using the flies, of being on the water, most certainly sped recovery.   You can extrapolate this to the most fatal conditions and even if one does not survive an illness, what was lost to the memory of being back on the water and imagining that a fish will rise ?  Rest in peace Jim (April 6, 1998). — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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Don’t think so. It’s more like: 25% bullsh-t, 50% garbage and 25% junk. What a waste! Allan

Gee Allan that’s a hellova contribution. Best Regards, Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle, Ltd. http://fishdoc.com "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK."

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Actually there is a lot of good information here. You just have to learn which contributors are worth reading and which ones to delete. Happy days. Jack.

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That sounds about right for any decent flyfisher, gear included. Obviously, not recognizing this, you are a bait dunker. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t think so. It’s more like: 25% bullsh-t, 50% garbage and 25% junk. What a waste! Allan

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Question:

I hear rummor a while back that there was a fly tying newsgroup. Is this true?  What’s it called? Thanks!

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Check it out       rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

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I hear rummor a while back that there was a fly tying newsgroup. Is this true?  What’s it called? Thanks!

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Charlie…

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rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Hope this helps — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hear rummor a while back that there was a fly tying newsgroup. Is this true?  What’s it called? Thanks!

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I hear rummor a while back that there was a fly tying newsgroup. Is this true?  What’s it called?

Just one more station down on the radio dial: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying I wish all the questions I get asked were this easy. mike.

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Question:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

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What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

First I presume you are asking about Atlantic salmon books, not books relating to inferior <vbg Pacific species. As I write, Fishing Atlantic Salmon by Joe Bates and Pamela Bates Richards, is the best and most available Atlantic salmon fly fishing and fly tying book. It is published by Stackpole and goes for $75.00(US)–although I am reliably informed that a little shopping around might beat that price. Poul Jorgensen’s Salmon Flies is always recommended for fly tying and is easily available. Bates’ much earlier book, Atlantic Salmon Flies and Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

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What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

What kind of salmon and where?  Full dress atlantic salmon flies or pacific/alaska shiny "purty" things?

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Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

All great fishing books eventually get remaindered. Known fact. Charles Cotton had the same problem. Andrew

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For Atlantic Salmon fishing I swear by Hugh Falkus’ book "Salmon Fishing" available here through Orvis and presumably others.

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Try Fly Fishing for Pacific Salmon, Bruce Ferguson, Les Johnson, Pat Trotter, Frank Amato Publications.

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As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore. I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

I for one am going to take my tube out in the lake in a controlled situation and flip it until I am comfortable with this "wet exit". I didnt even realize flipping my tube was possible- It’s pretty wide. You got my attention! Jack Jack Wheeler

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?

You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

… paragraph of inappropriate sarcasm deleted … know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

You insensitive bastard.  I gather no one will shed a tear when your tube flips. Bob Luneski

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne has a good point, unless of course the manufacurer designed a tube that would obviously flip under normal operation. i.e. shaped like a kayak.  If an angler choses to forego a PFD and drowns because the tube completely deflated before going ashore, then too bad. (Which is a different circumstance than the subject victim) I personally limit my use of the float tube to calm still waters on small lakes with land very accessible.  I view my tube as the "only" option as a boat on a small pond or lake where a regular boat would be less intimate.  Larger waters require a normal boat or even a pram, a tube is not viewed as my "poor man’s boat".  No white water adventures here because no fish is worth my life. My condolences to the familiy of the unfortunate angler. — Howard

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame?

If it was a manufacturing or design defect, then yes, there is every right to sue, provided that it was being used as intended. It might very well be a design which places the rider COG too high…the lawsuit might 1) get it fixed and 2) save more lives. Something that seems really ludicrous to me is the price of some of the tubes…like Browning…around $50…imagine that, really, something for $50 that has such serious implications, a $50 boat. Hmmmm…boggles the mind…freaking fly line costs more… TimW

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Wheee!

If you can maintain this attitude, you will survive the flip. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. There were times when I had to worry about this, but they are several pounds

ago. My COG is pretty safely placed, now.   I did flip once, getting into the water, because I was careless, and tried to walk forward rather than back.  Really scary for about 10 seconds.  I am really careful, now. I have to say, seems like the carrying straps add to the danger.  I don’t use them.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

In reflection, my previous post might be considered to be flippant and callous regarding the original incident.  I meant no disrespect, and extend my sympathies to the family and friends of the unfortunate tuber.

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

Your waders will be tough to pull under water upside down.  You might give it a try (with help nearby) and let us know how it goes.  Sobering thought being upside down with your neoprenes, all snug and airtight, waving around in the breeze.  Perhaps the open-ended tubes have more to recommend them than easy entry. John Porter, I’m truely sorry for your loss and appreciate the warning. Good fishing!  J. Rice

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With regard to an earlier post of mine to the fellow who’s brother drowned a "Bob" [Last name omitted to protect the guilty] apparently skimmed same and, thinking I was being sarcastic/insensitive, submitted a post of his own with a  few of the lines from my post he misconstrued. For the opportunity to restate the point of my original post will gladly forego asking for mea culpa from Bob for wrongful skimming/snipping me to make me sound like a bastard/calling me a bastard/etc., etc. since I also know his heart was in the right place. Thus, again: Here’s hoping the fellow who lost his brother will tell us if his brother’s two boys are in financial straits and, if so, whether and where there’s a trust fund where those of us who are interested can send something. (And oh, Bob, re your calling me a bastard: No hard feelings (Though I hope you didn’t hurt my father’s feelings, whoever he is….)

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I’m sorry to hear about your brother,I offer my condolences.My brother did the same thing,luckily he survied.I was to far from him to help and I just stood there in disbelief.I think he was trying to get out of the water to take a leek,and tripped on a rock and fell forward. Being a steep dropoff right next to shore he could not reach the bottom with his hand.  As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.  I now fish with a floater vest or a floater collar,and so does my brother, we enjoy our fishing trips together and especially float tubing. It’s a very exciting sport and I hope you do not give it up. BTW he is my twin brother,and I don’t want to lose him. Just sharing my experience with everybody and maybe it hits home to some people. Tight lines,Frank

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

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: On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube : over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what : made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left : two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, : moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he : loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his : class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered : from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… : If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop : me a note. Sorry to hear of your loss. Can the tubes be flipped while leaning backwards with one arm extended to the rear and feet out in front of you? Suggestion for discussion: When diving, I wear a large dull knife strapped to my leg. This is mostly to impress the tourons. However, after having managed to get all tangled up in a monoline fishing net once, there is now a small, double-edged, very sharp, serrated (sp?) edged knife fastened to my shoulder strap. Next time I’ll leave all that equipment down there with a few quick strokes of that knife when the release buckles are all tied up. Maybe it is just me, but after a couple of emergency situations, you go prepared. When upside down in a tube, can an escape be managed with a slash to the tube and a couple cuts on shoulder straps? I know, like you don’t have enough junk hanging on your vest already. Also, there are ankle weights for divers that don’t like diving upside down. I assume tubers have these also to help paddle around? Bill

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died…

Rich: My sincerest condolences to you and your family… very sorry to hear this tragic news.

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As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.

I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll. — -Wayne Trzyna

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I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

The panic factor and 35 degree water might be a problem with this assumption.  Keeping your wits about you would be difficult.  I assume you practiced rolling your kayak under somewhat controlled conditions.  I never practiced flipping my tube. Does a PFD really help if you are flipped over.  Will it keep your head up when the tube is flipped over and your legs are pointed to the sky, or will it keep you from flipping in the first place?.  Just curious if anyone has experienced a flip while wearing a life jacket. John

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

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: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

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I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them?????

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First for safety I would say we need to wear PFD’s of some type.  Second we should never be without a good readily available knife.  Third it isn’t a bad Idea to try to flip one with a friend present and try a water exit. Not panicing is probably the key.  Neoprene waders are very bouyant and can hinder a water exit plus they are cumbersome.

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If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I find that the lower I set my self in the tube the better control I have over it  This may take away some of my casting ability but I feel safer. Condolences on your loss

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

   First of all, let me say I’m very sorry for your loss.    This should be a heads-up for float-tubers and anyone thinking about buying one.  A friend of mine flipped his in the Green River and fortunately was able to right himself in shallow water while I watched helplessly from fifty yards away.  He is 6′2" and 250 lbs and was in a Browning tube which is way too small and carries you way too high, especially if you are his size.  He will never use that tube again.  In the same year a boy drowned in that river when his tube flipped.  Tubing in rivers is especially dangerous because the current can make it even more difficult than it already is to free yourself from a flipped tube, not to mention hazards like rocks.  If you flip, don’t try to right yourself.  Try to remain calm and just swim out.    For what it’s worth, I have a Caddis tube.  It is about the largest diameter tube I have ever seen and I sit quite low in it.  I am 6′ and 170 lbs. and I don’t think I could flip it if I tried unless I was standing in very shallow water.  I also always wear a lifevest. -alan

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

Tragic.  Deepest, deepest condolences. You did not mention the use of a life jacket.  Was your brother wearing one ? TW

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon.  

        (Snip) Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. if there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new   reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

        Well, . very crass, but I think your heart is in the right place. I think its a super idea. If, after they recover some from the shock of their loss, the family would accept some help from others who shared your brothers passion, I for one would be very willing to help.  

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