Question:

"Bass Boss"  wrote…  Stop for a few seconds to light a cigarette or something, with my fly or a lure just dangling in the water right beside me and the fish (smallmouth bass) will swim right up and take the fly or lure.

Shhh!  That’s a fishn’ secret! I’ve noticed that all kinds of crap goes floating down the stream, some of it, such as puffy seeds, looks a lot like my fly.  Some insects, like water striders, get totally ignored.  Your fly has to stand out as something the fish really does want to eat.  When your fly is hanging motionless in a moving stream, it is already standing out as something different.  Impart a little twitch and that could do it. I’ve caught many fish after making a really bad cast, and just pulling the line in to give it another shot.  Whack!  It’s a somewhat guilty pleasure, as at that point I was only trying to get some line in to make a better cast. Timothy Juvenal

Response:

Heh…I remember the first smally I caught right here by my home in the Kishwaukee river…I had my first fly rod and was trying to cast..with no instruction, what a mess. I had this big clump of line all tangled about me with the end of the line like 20 feet away; I was doing my best to untangle myself..I finally got the mess figured out and low and behold there was a little smally at the end. By no means the biggest..heck..coulde of been the smallest, but no matter what; he was the most memorable. My first fish on a fly rod. Hell, a few months later I finally even figured out how to cast! Tim Apple

Response:

This is what Ragnar up at Great Slave Lake refers to as a "Big Fish Maneuver".  Lighting a cigarette, digging out a sandwich, but the real killer is setting the rod down and pissing over the side of the boat.  A sure fire technique for getting a strike on a slow day. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is something that never ceases to amaze me. I could cast to fish all day long and not get a bite. Stop for a few seconds to light a cigarette or something, with my fly or a lure just dangling in the water right beside me and the fish (smallmouth bass) will swim right up and take the fly or lure.And I mean I’ve actually had fish swim right up between my legs to take a fly. Trying to imitate that out where one would cast to is pretty hard. With the current flowing, how can one stop a fly in the river, just pause it for a few seconds, so the fish will take it? To be able to put a fly in their face and keep it there just long enough to make them eat it. If it goes on by, they won’t touch it. But to hang for a few seconds…       Iv’e actually had fish take a fly that got snagged on a rock. They’ll just swim right up and pick it off the rock. But to cast to these fish and let the fly drift… They don’t want it. Amazing sometimes…

Response:

Hi Jamie and Group I often fish Shad on the same pool as Jamie. The Lahave is a Salmon River so you must use unweighted flies and get them down. Makes for interesting fishing. One evening in June I was standing in the river, water to my knees fishing shad when a dragon fly light on my waders. About 12 – 15 in above water level. I was admiring its colors when the water brobe and a nice Bass jumped up and grabby it riight there. Talk about needing to go ashore to tie on flies. It hit me quite hard but susprise was the biggest thing. See you all in June at the Shad Hole Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That is something that never ceases to amaze me. I could cast to fish all day long and not get a bite. Stop for a few seconds to light a cigarette or something, with my fly or a lure just dangling in the water right beside me and the fish (smallmouth bass) will swim right up and take the fly or lure.And I mean I’ve actually had fish swim right up between my legs to take a fly. Trying to imitate that out where one would cast to is pretty hard. With the current flowing, how can one stop a fly in the river, just pause it for a few seconds, so the fish will take it? To be able to put a fly in their face and keep it there just long enough to make them eat it. If it goes on by, they won’t touch it. But to hang for a few seconds…       Iv’e actually had fish take a fly that got snagged on a rock. They’ll just swim right up and pick it off the rock. But to cast to these fish and let the fly drift… They don’t want it. Amazing sometimes… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    < Joe, Thanks for the info on the flies. If you could please take a picture of the fly you described I would be very grateful. I fish my flies on a floating line. I cast directly across the current and let it swing down, watching closely for any "slow downs". Once the line is fully extended downstream I raise the road about 3 feet then slowly drop it in a continuous rhythm. Very similar to jigging with spinning gear and a heavy spoon. I stop pulsing the rod to take up line about every 6 feet. Actually, I’ve caught many just holding my leader and dangling the flies to fish holding in front of me. They have no fear of a man standing relatively still in the river. This is a great way to see what they prefer. Thanks Joe. Get me that picture! — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim I’m trying to put together a gallery of these flies. If any of you have any flies that you have used successfully let me know please. I’m looking for originals as well as standards. I have a few at my site now if any one would like to have a look. Here (MD) there’s been one "magic bullet" fly for hickory shad year after year, & I’ll try to remember to take a pic for you.  (Simple tie:  #8 hook, tinsel body, red & yellow marabou wing, red thread head) Oddly enough, last spring during the run, I couldn’t catch shit on it. The guy upstream from me was killin’ ‘em on a little green number, about size 10, similar to the bead head dart on your page. Interestingly, the Eel River flies look ver similar, if not identical, to the Lazer Egg (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly48.html) steelhead fly. Out of curiosity, how do you fish yours?  Sinking line? Sink tip?   Dead drift?   Swing? Joe F. already thinking ahead to April

Response:

See you there Paul. Your story reminds me of a few times I’ve seen smallies jump on shore after dragonflies. The smaller ones are so aggressive they are almost suicidal. — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jamie and Group I often fish Shad on the same pool as Jamie. The Lahave is a Salmon River so you must use unweighted flies and get them down. Makes for interesting fishing. One evening in June I was standing in the river, water to my knees fishing shad when a dragon fly light on my waders. About 12 – 15 in above water level. I was admiring its colors when the water brobe and a nice Bass jumped up and grabby it riight there. Talk about needing to go ashore to tie on flies. It hit me quite hard but susprise was the biggest thing. See you all in June at the Shad Hole Paul That is something that never ceases to amaze me. I could cast to fish all day long and not get a bite. Stop for a few seconds to light a cigarette or something, with my fly or a lure just dangling in the water right beside me and the fish (smallmouth bass) will swim right up and take the fly or lure.And I mean I’ve actually had fish swim right up between my legs to take a fly. Trying to imitate that out where one would cast to is pretty hard. With the current flowing, how can one stop a fly in the river, just pause it for a few seconds, so the fish will take it? To be able to put a fly in their face and keep it there just long enough to make them eat it. If it goes on by, they won’t touch it. But to hang for a few seconds… Iv’e actually had fish take a fly that got snagged on a rock. They’ll just swim right up and pick it off the rock. But to cast to these fish and let the fly drift… They don’t want it. Amazing sometimes… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < < <    <    <    <    <    < Joe, Thanks for the info on the flies. If you could please take a picture of the fly you described I would be very grateful. I fish my flies on a floating line. I cast directly across the current and let it swing down, watching closely for any "slow downs". Once the line is fully extended downstream I raise the road about 3 feet then slowly drop it in a continuous rhythm. Very similar to jigging with spinning gear and a heavy spoon. I stop pulsing the rod to take up line about every 6 feet. Actually, I’ve caught many just holding my leader and dangling the flies to fish holding in front of me. They have no fear of a man standing relatively still in the river. This is a great way to see what they prefer. Thanks Joe. Get me that picture! — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim I’m trying to put together a gallery of these flies. If any of you have any flies that you have used successfully let me know please. I’m looking for originals as well as standards. I have a few at my site now if any one would like to have a look. Here (MD) there’s been one "magic bullet" fly for hickory shad year after year, & I’ll try to remember to take a pic for you.  (Simple tie: #8 hook, tinsel body, red & yellow marabou wing, red thread head) Oddly enough, last spring during the run, I couldn’t catch shit on it. The guy upstream from me was killin’ ‘em on a little green number, about size 10, similar to the bead head dart on your page. Interestingly, the Eel River flies look ver similar, if not identical, to the Lazer Egg (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly48.html) steelhead fly. Out of curiosity, how do you fish yours?  Sinking line? Sink tip? Dead drift?   Swing? Joe F. already thinking ahead to April

Response:

That is something that never ceases to amaze me. I could cast to fish all day long and not get a bite. Stop for a few seconds to light a cigarette or something, with my fly or a lure just dangling in the water right beside me and the fish (smallmouth bass) will swim right up and take the fly or lure.And I mean I’ve actually had fish swim right up between my legs to take a fly. Trying to imitate that out where one would cast to is pretty hard. With the current flowing, how can one stop a fly in the river, just pause it for a few seconds, so the fish will take it? To be able to put a fly in their face and keep it there just long enough to make them eat it. If it goes on by, they won’t touch it. But to hang for a few seconds…       Iv’e actually had fish take a fly that got snagged on a rock. They’ll just swim right up and pick it off the rock. But to cast to these fish and let the fly drift… They don’t want it. Amazing sometimes… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe, Thanks for the info on the flies. If you could please take a picture of the fly you described I would be very grateful. I fish my flies on a floating line. I cast directly across the current and let it swing down, watching closely for any "slow downs". Once the line is fully extended downstream I raise the road about 3 feet then slowly drop it in a continuous rhythm. Very similar to jigging with spinning gear and a heavy spoon. I stop pulsing the rod to take up line about every 6 feet. Actually, I’ve caught many just holding my leader and dangling the flies to fish holding in front of me. They have no fear of a man standing relatively still in the river. This is a great way to see what they prefer. Thanks Joe. Get me that picture! — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim I’m trying to put together a gallery of these flies. If any of you have any flies that you have used successfully let me know please. I’m looking for originals as well as standards. I have a few at my site now if any one would like to have a look. Here (MD) there’s been one "magic bullet" fly for hickory shad year after year, & I’ll try to remember to take a pic for you.  (Simple tie:  #8 hook, tinsel body, red & yellow marabou wing, red thread head) Oddly enough, last spring during the run, I couldn’t catch shit on it. The guy upstream from me was killin’ ‘em on a little green number, about size 10, similar to the bead head dart on your page. Interestingly, the Eel River flies look ver similar, if not identical, to the Lazer Egg (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly48.html) steelhead fly. Out of curiosity, how do you fish yours?  Sinking line? Sink tip?   Dead drift?   Swing? Joe F. already thinking ahead to April

Response:

I’m trying to put together a gallery of these flies. If any of you have any

flies that you have used successfully let me know please. I’m looking for originals as well as standards. I have a few at my site now if any one would like to have a look. Here (MD) there’s been one "magic bullet" fly for hickory shad year after year, & I’ll try to remember to take a pic for you.  (Simple tie:  #8 hook, tinsel body, red & yellow marabou wing, red thread head) Oddly enough, last spring during the run, I couldn’t catch shit on it.   The guy upstream from me was killin’ ‘em on a little green number, about size 10, similar to the bead head dart on your page. Interestingly, the Eel River flies look ver similar, if not identical, to the Lazer Egg (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly48.html) steelhead fly. Out of curiosity, how do you fish yours?  Sinking line? Sink tip?   Dead drift?   Swing? Joe F. already thinking ahead to April

Response:

Joe, Thanks for the info on the flies. If you could please take a picture of the fly you described I would be very grateful. I fish my flies on a floating line. I cast directly across the current and let it swing down, watching closely for any "slow downs". Once the line is fully extended downstream I raise the road about 3 feet then slowly drop it in a continuous rhythm. Very similar to jigging with spinning gear and a heavy spoon. I stop pulsing the rod to take up line about every 6 feet. Actually, I’ve caught many just holding my leader and dangling the flies to fish holding in front of me. They have no fear of a man standing relatively still in the river. This is a great way to see what they prefer. Thanks Joe. Get me that picture! — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to put together a gallery of these flies. If any of you have any flies that you have used successfully let me know please. I’m looking for originals as well as standards. I have a few at my site now if any one would like to have a look. Here (MD) there’s been one "magic bullet" fly for hickory shad year after year, & I’ll try to remember to take a pic for you.  (Simple tie:  #8 hook, tinsel body, red & yellow marabou wing, red thread head) Oddly enough, last spring during the run, I couldn’t catch shit on it. The guy upstream from me was killin’ ‘em on a little green number, about size 10, similar to the bead head dart on your page. Interestingly, the Eel River flies look ver similar, if not identical, to the Lazer Egg (http://www.angelfire.com/wa/salmonid/fly48.html) steelhead fly. Out of curiosity, how do you fish yours?  Sinking line? Sink tip?   Dead drift?   Swing? Joe F. already thinking ahead to April

Response:

Jamie, Just gotta say, thats a pretty smally on your page, you take the photo yourself? The color is great. Tim Apple

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe,

Response:

Thanks Tim,     I can’t claim that pic however. I got that off the web a couple of years ago. It was on a site that just had pictures of differen’t fish. No caption or anything. I fell in love with it right away. — Regards, Jamie  8^) http://users.andara.com/~jbheim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jamie, Just gotta say, thats a pretty smally on your page, you take the photo yourself? The color is great. Tim Apple Joe,

Response:

Question:

Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself.

Heh heh, I’m just the opposite – I keep meaning to fish other waters, but never get off the W Branch AuSable  Where do you fish – Saranac, E Branch, smaller streams?  There are supposed to be some nice native brookie streams nearby.  One time I got lost and fished a little stretch of water that I believe was below AuSable Forks, so technically it wouldn’t have been the W Branch Before you buy.

Response:

Nice report.  Wish I was there. TL MC

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The

Response:

Hmmm, As luck would have it I have to be in the adirondacks from Friday night till Sunday morning without the family and only a 20 minute commitment in Lake George on Saturday morning. Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself. Are there any other Roffians who want to fish the AuSable on  Saturday? Paul

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, Jeff

Response:

"JeffC 1474"  wrote… Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn.

It would certainly have been poetic justice had he "thrown the book" at you. <g (Sorry, couldn’t resist.) –Steve (it’s good to hear from you Jeff!)

Response:

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.  The Ausable is a reasonably big, rocky river, smaller than the Delaware, but similar in character to what I would imagine some western rivers to be like, if a little smaller.  It’s one of my favorite, if not my favorite, stream I’ve ever fished. Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn. If I don’t stop in Lake Placid, my first stop is always at Fran Betters’ Adirondack Sport Shop on 86 in Wilmington.  The big sign with a girl catching her fly on her skirt and pulling it up is still there, but there’s a new one that says "FRAN IS BACK!"  Fran is famous in those parts as a fly tier and fisherman, and knows the W Branch Ausable probably better than anyone.  He developed patterns such as the Ausable Wulff.  Fran is getting on in years and last year leased the business to another man.  Rumours run wild about what happened, but the facts are that it ended on bad terms, Fran is back in the shop, and the other guy opened a new shop nearby. www.ausablewulff.com Luckily the light was still on at 10 so I could get the stream report and any flies I’d need for the next day.  There are shops in the area with a better inventory and more modern fixtures, but none with as much character.  It’s a fine place to hang out and shoot the shit and collect fishing reports as fishermen filter in and out.  Fran recommended some golden stones and March Brown dries, among other things.  I was surprised because I didn’t even know there *were* yellow stoneflies there, just black.  You can’t tell by looking at the nymphal shucks they leave on the rocks, and I had never tried to collect any from the stream.  I headed over to The Bunkhouse which can be reserved through the shop.  It’s $15 a night, a total dive, but a great place to stay if you’re fishing there.  You can stay at some prissy lodge if you want, but real fishermen stay at The Bunkhouse.  There is usually sports on TV and beer drinking in the living room and late night tying sessions at the big table in the kitchen.  An alternative he-man accomodation would be a tent at the Wilmington Notch campsite on the other side of the river from Whiteface Mt., site of the Olympic skiing. Headed out to the water in the morning.  What a difference a year makes.  Last year at this same time the water was 68 in the morning up to 72 in the afternoon, and levels were low during drought conditions, and they were warning about stressed out fish.  I had done better than many people because I headed toward water upstream near the ski jumps, where it is more shaded and a couple degrees cooler, and in the well-oxygenated water below the Wilmington dam. Also I was willing to accept smaller fish, 6-13", and every one was hard fighting and healthy.  There are a lot of big fish in this river, and some people feel like they fail if they don’t catch a 20 incher, but the conditions just weren’t right.  The trout were going nuts over big yellow stimulators.  I did have one big fish break my line in the upstream section, which would have been a real trophy in that area, and I vowed to challenge it again this year. But I changed my mind since the conditions were so different now – 54 degree water temp and higher water.  BTW, the water in this river tends to have a tea stain color.  Fran recommends all-Maxima Chameleon leaders, including the tippet.  He sells them there if you don’t like to make your own. I fished in the 5 mile catch and release section, which I rarely do since it can get crowded.  But this section contains extremes of water type, from slow, pond-like pools to rough, bouldery water with deeper runs and some gorge-like sections.  I fished some rough water with deeper runs,  high-sticking the golden stone nymphs with weight.  Right away I got a 14" rainbow, which unfortunately did not fight too hard and looked fresh off the stocking truck.  Fortunately, every *other* fish I caught that day appeared to be a holdover fish.  Next came a tough 15" brown, and then a 13" brown.  The takes were subtle, but did not prepare me for the subtleness of the next take. I was sure I had hung bottom.  I tried to pull it free, but it wouldn’t budge. Then I put a lot of pressure on it from an upstream angle – nothing.  I was getting ready to break the line when all of a sudden the fish started rolling to the surface flashing its side.  I had so much pressure on the line that the fly pulled out and rocketed straight into a tree overhead and I couldn’t get it out – salt rubbed in the wound – one nymph down, one to go.  It looked about 18" but felt like 20 lbs – weird.  Ready for the most subtle of takes now, the next cast went into a deep, swirling eddy.  The take was so strong and sudden that it scared the crap out of me, and I ripped the fly right out of its mouth.  And…. you guessed it – straight into the same tree overhead.  Well, black nymphs from now on  Then for the next hour and a half – not a single take (as far as I could tell.) I’m fairly athletic, but I was having a hard time wading the rougher water near the middle of the river.  I finally broke down and went back to the shop to get a wading staff, which was a big help later.  Never thought I’d see the day Ironically, it caused my only injury – it was dragging behind me when I slipped a little.  I fell toward the staff, which was wedged against a rock, and drove the handle deep into the side of my thigh.  I’ve got a big purple knot there now the size of a lemon. I headed below the Wilmingtion dam about a half mile or so.  This is very nice, moderate wading in terms of difficulty, riffly pocket water with some of those semi-pool, semi-broken-water areas that are my personal favorite for dry flies.  There was still no surface activity even though there were quite a few caddis in the air and the occasional sulphur.  No more action on the nymphs.  I finally saw some sporadic rises and started to fish dries – there were a couple March Browns coming off now.  I had a couple missed fish, which made me think I was striking too soon, until I sat and watched for awhile and realized they were missing (or refusing) the naturals too!  Crazy fish.  This was hard to determine though since there was only 1 rise about every 5 minutes.  I hiked a little and unfortunately must have caught my fly patch with my Haystack March Brown dries on it on a tree and lost it. Rummaging through the box, I finally came across an old one I tied probably 20 years ago, traditional pattern.  And… it worked.  For some reason, a fish took that old March Brown with more gusto than any fish took any natural I saw – it was hooked deep in the roof of its mouth – 13" brown.  Go figure.  The rain started a little and the wind started whipping up hard so I went back to nymphs – a big black stone that I picked out of a tree limb earlier, left behind by a caster in my league, presumably.  As it drifted toward a fast chute created by 2 boulders, it got picked up by a large fish.  Unfortunately as the fish rose into the fast water in the chute, I couldn’t  control it.  It was hard enough to wade into position to make the cast, let alone try and run downstream of the fish.  I put all the pressure on it I could, but all it did was hold it in place in that chute.  I watched it roll around for 5 or 6 seconds before it pulled off – about 20".  On the way back up I picked up another 10" brown, and an 8 incher that appeared to be stream bred. That night at the shop (which is also a house), I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and invited to stay for dinner with Fran and Jan and a couple guides (hint: the kitchen door at dinner time is usually the right place at the right time  It was a great opportunity to hear Fran and the guys tell stories and ask for some tips.  Fran is generous with his time and help.  Every couple weeks he gives a free cookout and informal fly casting clinic.  I’ve seen him many times patiently explain things to newcomers that I know he’s explained hundreds of times before.  And he is no snob – he will suggest where and how to fish whether you want to use flies, spinners, or worms. A guide spoke of the previous day’s client.  He asked the client what his casting ability was, so he could decide where and how to fish.  The reply was "I have a Sage SP."  !!  The guy was apparently a dickhead and didn’t want to listen to the recommended streamer fishing technique for a certain stretch.  He was riding high as he hooked a nice fish.  The guide nearly broke out in laughter when it turned out to be a sucker, and foul hooked to boot.  Then the guide pulled out an 18" rainbow from the same pool.  He knew there would be no tip, but he just couldn’t resist Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

I may be attending a convention in Mesa, Arizona the last week in March and would like to know if there are any public spots for fly fishing close to Mesa?  If I can’t take my gear, how about areas close by that I could just wander around in?  Haven’t ever been to the southwest and would like to see more than just manicured parks.  Thanks for any information you can provide. Larry We give dogs love we can spare, time we can spare, and room we can spare.  In return, dogs give us their all.  It

Question:

Does anyone have information on fly fishing in France in early September?  Any sources to look for?  My son and I would apreciate any help.

Response:

Try the travel agents/tourist pages on yahoo uk/Ireland we found some good Information on fly fishing in France. Best Regards & Tight lines Chris & Sue Simmons. U.K.         – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have information on fly fishing in France in early September?  Any sources to look for?  My son and I would apreciate any help.

Response:

Assuming you haven’t left already — Where will you be?  I was in France in July and picked up a really helpful book called "Guide des Parcours de Peche en France" which lists almost every river and lake in detail.  I fished a number of rivers in northeastern France.  Full of wild fish but very tough fishing (v. low water in midsummer).  There is also a legendary fly fishing hotel in a small village called Goumois on the Swiss border (River Doubs).  I really enjoyed staying there, and prices are reasonable.  But it all depends where you plan to be — Normandy, for example, is full of classic English-style chalk streams.  E-mail me if you’d like more details and I’ll be happy to pass on tips from the book I mentioned.  Beware, by the way, of the incredibly complicated and bureaucratic licensing requirements — you basically have to buy a new license for each river, often each section of river, you intend to fish. Best wishes, George Black

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A mate of mine has an old green heart rod that he has had from childhood in england(about 50 years ago). It has a tip section made from split cane. the rod is a five peice and casts about a size five line. The question is, does any one know if it is a normal thing for such a rod to have a different type of tip or it is a hybrid. He still catches fish on it when he feels nostalgic. Any help would be gratefully received. Neil Grose Tasmania Australia

Hi Neil Day before yesterday I was in the International Fly Fishing Center in Livingston looking at the rod display and observed a green heart rod with a split bamboo tip. I should have paid more attention when reading the information on the rod but I thing this practice was fairly common. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

writes: A mate of mine has an old green heart rod that he has had from childhood in england(about 50 years ago). It has a tip section made from split cane. the rod is a five peice and casts about a size five line. The question is, does any one know if it is a normal thing for such a rod to have a different type of tip or it is a hybrid. He still catches fish on it when he feels nostalgic. Any help would be gratefully received. Neil Grose

Hi Neil, Before Hiram Leonard popularized the 6-strip split cane rod in the 1870’s, almost all of the "bamboo" rods were combinations of a split cane tip with the rest of the rod made from hardwoods such as greenheart, lancewood, monkeywood,etc.  Originally these tips were 3 strip tip sections, then 4, and finally 6 strip pieces.  Although the tips were made out of strips, the edges were rounded off to make it blend in with the rest of the rod. These tips were also made out of Calcutta cane as Tonkin cane was not introduced for rod building until about the turn of the century.  It was not until the 6 strip entire cane rod was popularized that the builders stopped rounding off the edges leaving the hexagonal shape that we are now so familiar with.   If the tip section of your rod has rounded edges or is made from only 3 or 4 strips you may have a much older rod in your possession.                                Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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A mate of mine has an old green heart rod that he has had from childhood in england(about 50 years ago). It has a tip section made from split cane. the rod is a five peice and casts about a size five line. The question is, does any one know if it is a normal thing for such a rod to have a different type of tip or it is a hybrid. He still catches fish on it when he feels nostalgic. Day before yesterday I was in the International Fly Fishing Center in Livingston looking at the rod display and observed a green heart rod with a split bamboo tip. I should have paid more attention when reading the information on the rod but I thing this practice was fairly common.

This was pretty standard design, greenheart doesn’t behave well in very thin sections whilst well built cane does.  Another common variation was whole cane bottom/built cane top – especially in spinning and worming tackle, bait fishers often used Whole Tonkin cane/Built cane/Whole Spanish reed combinations. Modern composites are not immune from this sort of thing, I still have a rod with glassfibre butt and carbon fibre top. I haven’t used it for a few years, must dig it out sometime and give it a try. As long as the cane is kept well varnished, you inspect it frequently and avoid overloading it, the rod should be good for another 50 years.  Now; does he have a silk line to cast with it? —

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A mate of mine has an old green heart rod that he has had from childhood in england(about 50 years ago). Now; does he have a silk line to cast with it? Derek Moody

How about a horse hair line ? Ernie Harrison

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A mate of mine has an old green heart rod that he has had from childhood in england(about 50 years ago). Now; does he have a silk line to cast with it? Derek Moody How about a horse hair line ? Ernie Harrison

nope, neither. An old buggered cortland D/T #5 is what he casts on it.

Question:

There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for

You have many brothers and they have many faces. The whole C&R issue breeds this type of mentality. Just think for a minute if you had to work real hard just to catch one fish, rather than become jaded by the fact that you catch many and play into the sickness. The other fact is the "O" company portrays the one stop, "Fly Fisherman in a Can" mentality that everyone despises just because of its marketing and distribution. Not real great stuff all the time, just under one roof. What about all the guides that jumped upon train to sell themselves? This issue is becoming inbred. Hey, fishing is the second known profession. Then there’s the asshole that can ruin everybody’s day by one simple deed. Sometimes they don’t even know what their doing or why. Learn to be nice when you are astream and people will respond in kind, try it, it does work. We fly fisher people do tend to be stuffy at times. We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait. . — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for You have many brothers and they have many faces. The whole C&R issue breeds this type of mentality.

You know I feel much for Spinolio having experienced many of my own dark nights and a sequence of grey years. Flyfishing for me was reason to keep going. It gave me something to look forward to and to dream about. What ticks me off is the posters who take advantage of this to climb on a soap box on one side or the other and blame the whole thing on one aspect of the sport or on one tackle supplier. This applies equally to the fellow who complained that killing a fish that could grow larger is selfish and that most who kill fish don’t eat them (then what prey tell are we doing with them if you know so much!) My best to Spinolio I hope you work this out. Don’t be afraid to ask for help if the darkness widens or seems it can never end. Some journeys are not meant to traversed alone. Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

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: Rick, : I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t : have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was : one of the classic posts on this ng. OK, can we just occasionally pass along the comment "Speak English or Die" without explanation as a salute that Spinolio once passed this way? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

Rick, I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was one of the classic posts on this ng. Mitch

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: Rick, : I’ve got this paragraph taped to my monitor at work. I regret I don’t : have access to the rest of that post, which to my way of thinking was : one of the classic posts on this ng. OK, can we just occasionally pass along the comment "Speak English or Die" without explanation as a salute that Spinolio once passed this way?

I’ll second that, except perhaps we should use… "Brian Keith on steroids" as a better visual. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

Search www.dejanews.com on "george gehrke red conservative"… etc in the old usenet database and you will find it. Charlie…

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: Search www.dejanews.com on "george gehrke red conservative"… etc in : the old usenet database and you will find it. Thanks for that reminder.  It’s important to search the"old" list rather than the new. I’ve decided Spinolio is really out fishing rather than reading and writing.  I’m looking forward to doing the same when the season opens here.  Of course, it will be tougher for me, since I don’t have Spinolio’s resources.  I’m sure he is raking in the bucks from his copyrighted works. A fine example is below: ("Fine Fettle" is a copyrited term of Spinolio Enterprises, 1992. All rights reserved.) As in "Tim and Ralph are in fine fettle today."  (Note the quotes after the period.) So… do I owe Steve money? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the   outdoors, away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE !   and what resides there-in. The mindless killing of fish that stand a   chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish.  How many   people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ?

I certainly understand what you are saying about stress, work etc…, but I don’t get what you are asserting with respect to killing fish etc. I eat ALL the fish that I keep (except for the bits I give to others to eat) – down to usually making stock out of the frames.  Why would you keep a fish if you weren’t going to eat it? It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in many respects as well. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in many respects as well.

There is a glimmer of hope in this statement.  Thanks Tony.   Nothing selfish about eating, that’s for damned sure. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait.

If we were southern bass fishermen we’d be chucking ‘fly baits’.   [Referring, of course, to spinner baits, crank baits, etc.] — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks.

I agree.   Steve is one of the most naturally gifted writers I have ever read. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the outdoors , away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE ! and what resides there-in . The mindless killing of fish that stand a chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish  . How many people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ?

Don’t frikken’ push me pal… How many people actually eat the fish they keep ?   I don’t know how many people exactly, but I can honestly say that all fishermen do. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     It seems to me that if the only reason you toss fish back is so you     can catch them when they are bigger – _that_ is probably selfish in     many respects as well.    There is a glimmer of hope in this statement.  Thanks Tony.      Nothing selfish about eating, that’s for damned sure.    –    TimW These are (and always have been) just my opinions on the matter. Don’t thank me for having an opinion!  There is a time to kill and a time to release.   With apologies to grisham. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Steve… Are you the devil ?   If so, I’ve been looking for you.  Why are you so hard to find ? Hey…what’s the going rate to fish and hunt everyday for the next 50 years ?  The rest of eternity in hell, you say, you keep my soul ?   …. Let me think about it a bit, eh ?  Do you have a FAX ? …you know where I am too, the river is in incredible shape. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak English or die." There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness…

The classic chicken & egg question. Good move though. Rid yourself of all the trappings and look at each piece for its merits. Mitch

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Someone once asked me"If you like to fish so much , howcum you don’t fish in them tournaments?" I answered "Because I like to fish so much." Blank stare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

– Flyfish NC http://planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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I think that we all fish for the enjoyment of spending time in the outdoors , away from the stress of work and in some cases the HOUSE ! and what resides there-in . The mindless killing of fish that stand a chance to grow into Trophy sized fish is only selfish  . How many people actualy eat the fish that they keep ! ….. ? Someone once asked me"If you like to fish so much , howcum you don’t fish in them tournaments?" I answered "Because I like to fish so much." Blank stare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

– Flyfish NC http://planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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: Suddenly, from out of nowhere, cam George Gehrke, big as life and twice as conservative, carrying a fistfull of Gehrke’s Gink bottles and a rolled up copy of the "American Spectator". He looked like Brian Kieth on steroids, : all red flannel, denim and muscle. A tattoo on his forehead read "Speak : English or die." Damn… I didn’t get to see this part in the post that came my way.  Looks like classic Spinolio stuff.  What else did I miss?  Mitch, could you repost the entire thing you saw? I’m serious.  Thanks. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

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We’re no different from the other folks, just to cheap to buy bait. If we were southern bass fishermen we’d be chucking ‘fly baits’. [Referring, of course, to spinner baits, crank baits, etc.] — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Fly baits hard to cast with a baitcasting reel! -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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My best to Spinolio I hope you work this out. Don’t be afraid to ask for help if the darkness widens or seems it can never end. Some journeys are not meant to traversed alone.

Indeed!  However, I feel the act of discovery is the real beginning of the solution. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley         2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough. Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

Spinolio, Perhaps it is time to get that ten dollar rod back out and spend an afternoon fishing for bream with a 5 year old?   I too once went through the troubling competetive problem. I tuna fished and my type A "Hobby" ended up becoming like another job for me.  I put too much into it and got little in return, with the exception of actually looking forward to relaxing at work on Monday.  I gave up the 29′ boat and haven’t particularly missed it.  Now I fly fish and the solitude has helped make me calmer and easier to deal with, although I’m a little distressed that my girlfriend commented on how the captain on one of this mornings fishing shows wasn’t yelling at the girl who fouled the rod tip.  I guess I have a ways to go, but between you and me, my blood pressure is down considerably. Take heart, when fishing becomes too serious, it may be time to take up golf. Rediscover the sport.  It has a lot to offer. — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

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Take heart, when fishing becomes too serious, it may be time to take up golf. Rediscover the sport.  It has a lot to offer.

Mark’s right.  Well not about the golf part… but there is always a way to be that beginner with the fiberglass rod and level line.  For me it’s bass.  I’ve been learning for about a year now and am still very much a beginner with bass.  "When your full sinking line starts sinking faster or slows down" is just begining to make the sense that "when your leader behaves differently strike" on a trout stream does.  When you start to feel ownership of a stretch of water (i.e. "some yahoo was in my favorite pool and he was F-ing it up!"), or a whole rivers for that matter, is when the darkness takes over.  Become the Yahoo and it’s an adventure in discovery again.  The newsgroup of course is absolutely useless and should be abandoned immediately   Phil

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Spinolio, We all have a darkside! When the competition becomes the primary motivation it is time to stop and "smell the roses." Mark is right about taking a child fishing. Their excitement is in the experience of fishing. After you take a  child fishing take a handicapped person fishing. Someone who has never fished and needs help in even holding the rod. Watch their face when you catch a three inch sunny! It will make you remember your first fish, the good feeling you had and the darkside will brighten. There is much more to fly fishing and life than the competitive part. The older I get the more I enjoy the simple things in life, like sunrise while sitting on the bank of my favorite stream. Have a good day, Dennis   — Dennis C. Aron Independent Representative #13921 Champion Fishing Co., Ltd e-mail for business opportunity – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A quick note to anyone who’s still reading (and I can’t imagine there are many of you)… Starting immediately I’m putting myself into self-imposed exile from this newsgroup. I won’t be posting to ROFF again for at least a year (today is April 17th I believe), perhaps never. A year might not be enough.   Recent arguments between myself and other frequent contributors have caused me to reevaluate my own contributions. Things have been ugly, and much of the blame is mine to bear. I truly owe Tony Gades an apology. There is a darkness rooted in me and I’m afraid my angling is entangled in this darkness. I began this journey with a ten dollar fiberglass rod and a level line, dreaming of something. How I got this jaded I don’t know, for the life of me. An angling friend recently told me that I have become "too dark and competitive" to fish with. I’ve been lurking around like a werewolf, scaring people, aching and horrified. It’s time for me to stop, not for your sake, but my own. You know where I am, Spinolio

  Spinolio   I would forget golf, just put the pipe down for a while.    harry

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Question:

Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

Hi John I did as well and was unable to get on. I know we’ve had a couple of false starts but I think with Joe Byrd’s help we will get a good and regular chat going — at least that’s what I’m working toward. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

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Question:

: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The : only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get : and where we’ll build the whore house. I also want to know where Wayne will park his truck to begin the bean-fest.

Upwind of the beavers…that’ll drive ‘em out. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Hi Sandy-    Lets say some Californian just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in SW Montana. . . and immediately wanted to sub divide it, build a sprawling ranchette and get rid of the vermin. You need to kill the beavers quick because they’re flooding the road and you just washed your Orvis endorsed vehicle and don’t really want to drive on a wet road. And, hear this, it gets even worse: they’re eating willows. Can’t they eat dog food or bird seed or something?    To answer your question: grenades work well. Pull the pin, count to sixty real slow then throw it at one of those damn beavers.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Ralph and Lisa Cutter. California School of Flyfishing http:www/flyline.com

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: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale : in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, : You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on : the third. I think with three houses, and probably fences, it’s no longer going to be the prettiest 100 acres in SW MT, beavers or no. That said, I’m kinda ambivalent about the beaver thing; I can see why one sides complains about our manipulation of nature, and I can see why someone would want to get rid of the ones on their property. So,… I would think letting a trapper come in would be the best, or is the fur market non-existant these days?  A beaver pelt used to be fairly valuable, I hope in this hypothetical example those three pelts weren’t tossed… Jon Cook.

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems.   It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat Obviously Sandy hasn’t had to deal with the little "construction freaks".  Contact your local Fish and Game and they will put you in touch with a local or state trapper to remedy your problems. It takes time and should be done in the Winter months as to not waste the hides.  They can be a real problem if you let them get a good hold on your drainage.  Good luck   Ace in Alaska

christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse.  It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

        to tell you the truth, i’ve never seen a beaver i wouldn’t love to eat.         a. wayne harrison

Response:

: My advice ?   : One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. : Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Maybe, but the question is whether he could afford the mortgage payments on that wealth.  Even the locals get caught up in this stuff… I see it all over.  Pretty soon, the latecomers will start complaining about all the growth… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams.

in the mountain village,    the wind rustles the leaves. deep in the night, the deer    cry out beyond the end of dreams.            – minimoto no morotada

Response:

Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house.

I heard that a famous tributary of the Snake got its name when some trappers were sitting around and one said "someone go into town and bring a Hoback". TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you). But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? — Sandy, I’d sure like to teach the beavers how to get rid of you! But, maybe the greedy real estate agent that handled the sale would be a better target. Pat

Good old leg holds and conibear traps have always worked well for me. Don Kelly

Response:

Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation? — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  

Yea, maybe he could write a guide about fishing the Sierra Nevada for trout. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not! This thread has been a lesson in mass-hysteria.  I don’t know whether Sandy has ever been to California, but he’s lived in Montana as long as I’ve known him.

I don’t know if Sandy has been to California either but I know that Ralph lives there and I lived in California all my life.  The environment that Ralph lived is nothing like the area that I lived.  So, I’m wondering, exactly what is a Californian’s natural environment, or does Jason just have some stereotypical view of what California is like. Sandy: do what you must with the beavers, but PLEASE don’t subdivide! If you Montanans continue to chop up Montana into little make-believe tourist ranches, as we have done to Colorado, where will I go on vacation?

Maybe Sandy should parcel off the 2/3rds to the readers of ROFF.  The only thing we’d have to figure out is what section Tim is going to get and where we’ll build the whore house. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

As long as the habitat is right, they will come back even if you kill them all right now.  Consider the South Platte corridor right through Denver. They can’t keep a young tree alive in this park-like setting for the beavers. My advice ?   One small cabin on the whole 100 acres on the dryest most protected spot. Your wealth would exceed that possible by sub-dividing and developing. Who knows, maybe the deer will visit you in your dreams. TimW

Response:

This is a hot topic around here (NC) as well. Beaver populations are way up in suburbia – all their predators are gone and the beavers are protected in many areas. Many neighborhood lakes have trouble ranging from tree loss to damage to dams. I have lost a couple of trees on a lot I own to beavers. Sometimes they are trapped live and relocated, but there are fewer and fewer places to put them. I put chicken wire around the base of all the remaining trees. Nice simple solution for me – I only have a small lot to protect, and they can move on and bother someone else. But I can certainly understand how options might be limited in other cases. I am glad I don’t have to think about doing it, but I think there may be cases where it may be necessary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

Response:

So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace?

I can tell this must be some sort of religious thing for you George since you seem to evoke the christian deity frequently on this topic. However, if you want a vote I would say "It all depends" (no, I’m not running for office). For example, our family has had hunting-fishing property here since the 30’s or 40’s (that’s the last 50-60 years). There have never been beaver in that area. The last 4 years or so beaver have moved in and have devastated many areas for fishing. This situation would very likely reach a new equilibrium in about 20-30 years as the stream beds moved, swamps formed etc. However, since beaver are new there, we are not willing to sacrifice a generation of fishing to reach that point- sorry but that’s too bad. However, if the original poster bought land that had been long colonized by beaver and the ecosystem and trout reproduction were in equilibrium with the beaver, then I would say 1) don’t bother them and 2) they are probably so locally widespread that you will never make much headway since they will continually recolonize the area and 3) they probably don’t negatively impact the fishing under those conditions and may actually help and 4) don’t develop (subdivide) the land. Signing off without a deprecating remark. Jon

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — Yeah, the beavers are in their natural environment.  The Californian is not!

JB

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Yah, the fact I missed mentioning you if you’re for killing beavers as a solution to every human who thinks they have a problem with beavers. They were here long before we arrived.  Seems "Man" cannot keep his hand off a spot on this earth for even a little bird to stand upon.  So, what is your problem that you cannot stand up for the life of one beaver?  Or two, or a family of them which make beautiful Brook Trout Ponds and rich soiled valley’s that produce in time . . . lush, green elk pastures or habitat for moose, etc? Instead of being a smart-ass and talking about fly tying and flies that are used on Beaver Ponds . . . your kind only can think of how to miss-manage our wildlife.  Right? right. So, if you want some kind of vote on who’s approach to an idiots QUESTION regarding beavers and beaver ponds is more acceptable . . . let my fellow fly fishermen post a few replies regarding "KILLING BEAVERS", is the preferred approach, okay ace? christ.. George Gehrke / Mr. Gink

Response:

Quoting: christ.  (Stick some dynamite up your ass and then light the fuse. It will solve your beaver problem to my satisfaction) George Gehrke/Professional Sportsman

Any other readers see a paradox here? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Dear Ralph; Oh, Lord, man; you are great, just great!  I love it: you should be a writer or something.  You just took his post, stood on the complete opposite side of it, telling us like it is.  Just beautiful, man!  Those urbanites: now, with the age of delocation upon us, no wilderness is safe from their spoiling touch.  Keep up the good fight! Sincerely Jason Beary

Response:

  But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand

1.  Normal beaver life style includes excluding the young from the family i.e. forcing them to emigrate, when they get to be two years old.  So sooner or later the parent couple will die off and the site will become vacant. 2.  You can accelerate this by the combination of opportunistic shooting and trapping, easiest in winter when ice restricts their movement. Exterminating a single family seems to do no appreciable damage to the continent-wide beaver gene pool these days. 3.  But you need to bear in mind #1, i.e. there’s another beaver family two or three miles away that will be kicking its young adults out of the nest — and when they find your site vacant they will occupy it!  The cycle of occupation/vacancy seems to be 7 or 8 years.     As someone else posted, local wildlife authorities may (or may not) have better advice about both short-term and long-term control.  Beaver can do a lot of damage where species like poplar are abundant, e.g. can fell whole stands of mature trees and just leave them there without salvaging the proceeds. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Let’s say you just bought 100 of the prettiest acres ever put up for sale in South West Montana…complete with 3/4 of a mile of a deep, clear, undercut spring creek, large brown trout, deer, sand hill cranes, ducks, geese, eagles, osprey, snipe, pheasants, badgers and beavers. And it’s only nine miles from town. You wanna sell off two thirty acre pieces and build on the third.   But the damn beavers are flooding the road so bad you’re afraid to list your property. Worse, they’re mowing down dense, thick, old-growth willows like a drunk redneck with a chainsaw. So you start shooting beavers. (this is still all totally hypothetical, mind you).  But the damn beavers start to get smart (after killing five in the first three nights) and start waiting till way after dark to come out of their lodge. So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What? —

Response:

So what’s the best way to kill beavers? Chloroform in the lodge? Hand grenades? What?

How about live trapping and relocation? — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

Response:

Question:

I have not seen a post on hex type rods. Has/does anyone use one? What is the action like? Why do  you prefer it? Thanks Michael

Response:

Hexagraph rods have a sweet medium to medium fast action.  They are strikingly similar in appearance to bamboo and typically much faster and not as pricey either. Tom www.kinghill.com Best regards,   TK       King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. http://www.kinghill.com/kinghill

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Question:

I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

Response:

I am new to the midwest and a local suggested I try the Pere Marquette. We live in Chicago, so I thought we’d make a weekend of the trip. I would appreciate the what, when, where, and how’s of fly fishing there for Salmon. Suggested camp grounds would be appreciated, as well as best route from Chicago and approximate travel time. Thanxs in advance, Bryan

                                   * I am a native to MI (at least I am now) and I visit the PM rather frequently. If you email me at home I can give you phone numbers and the like for my favorite lodge.  I really like the Johnsons Pere Marquette lodge.  I have stayed there for only $35-/night midweek during the salmon season.  I don’t know what it is this year.  I now have a cabin of my own up there only 7 min. from the flies only water of the PM.  I suggest that you go mid-week if you can.  If you go, try to find the most inaccessible spot you can.  The river is so full of salmon you can practically walk across on their backs, in any hole in the river.  The trick is finding a place with few enough fellow fishermen that the fish haven’t already been spooked into oblivion.  A drift boat with a guide is an excellent solution if you have the money.  I have not done that yet, though.  The Johnsons lodge is also an Orvis shop (sorry) but they really are nice anyway.  They give away a really good map of the flies only section of the river.  It helps a lot.  Good luck.                                     * Lenny Bloksberg . . .

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