Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______  We are now concentrating on making (we hope) one of the most complete fly tying programs in the world given enough time.  I think this project will take at least three years. I am going to ask each and every one of you to submit four flies and the way you tie them.  We hope as traditional as possible. … Mr. George Gehrke President We here at the ET2 Flyfishing Emporium and Shaolin Monk Reeducation Center respectfully request that everyone everywhere send to us one dozen flies to be entered into the KCUSFC (Ken Could Use Some Flies Contest). Please submit your dozen from one or more of the following patterns and sizes, (the more times you enter the better your chance of winning). Yellow Humpy    14, 16, 18 Royal Wulff     12, 14, 16 Parachute Adams 14, 16, 18 The winner will be announced in this forum, and will receive INSTANT IMMORTALITY, WORLD WIDE ACCLAIM, and A SIX PACK OF ST. LOUIS BUDWEISER ! All entries will be judged by a panel of drunken ROFFians and the vast majority of the flies will be fed to ravenous rhododendrons.

Even so, it’s a much better deal than that offered by VI#1…

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Gotta be in big mouth cans.                     Frank Reid The winner will be announced in this forum, and will receive INSTANT IMMORTALITY, WORLD WIDE ACCLAIM, and A SIX PACK OF ST. LOUIS BUDWEISER !

I had planned on providing longnecks but will accomodate career military contestants without prejudice. Send those flies, Francis, and take your chances. — Ken Fortenberry

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Gotta be in big mouth cans.                     Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The winner will be announced in this forum, and will receive INSTANT IMMORTALITY, WORLD WIDE ACCLAIM, and A SIX PACK OF ST. LOUIS BUDWEISER !

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Gotta be in big mouth cans.                     Frank Reid The winner will be announced in this forum, and will receive INSTANT IMMORTALITY, WORLD WIDE ACCLAIM, and A SIX PACK OF ST. LOUIS BUDWEISER !

— Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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_______  We are now concentrating on making (we hope) one of the most complete fly tying programs in the world given enough time.  I think this project will take at least three years. I am going to ask each and every one of you to submit four flies and the way you tie them.  We hope as traditional as possible.  A complete tying instructions column would be appreciated, a picture of yourselves at the vise or astream, and a little history or bio would be nice.   Send the flies or very good photographs via e-mail.  Focus is important and a common light blue, tan, or black background that would best set off your flies will serve you and us well when ever possible. Please tie one dry, one wet fly, one nymph and one streamer if possible.   The site will be set up in those four sections as DRY WET NYMPHS STREAMERS as soon as we get enough delineation. I look forward to hearing from all as your support is much appreciated. We are and the world are also interested in seeing your fly tying signature.  This is why sometimes we will list two or three ties of the same fly such as the Adams. I will do each and every one a good job regarding the page/s about you and your flies. Thank you all in advance.  I look forward hearing from you. Mr. George Gehrke President http://www.gink.com/fly/fly_of_world.html —

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_______  We are now concentrating on making (we hope) one of the most complete fly tying programs in the world given enough time.  I think this project will take at least three years. I am going to ask each and every one of you to submit four flies and the way you tie them.  We hope as traditional as possible. … Mr. George Gehrke President

We here at the ET2 Flyfishing Emporium and Shaolin Monk Reeducation Center respectfully request that everyone everywhere send to us one dozen flies to be entered into the KCUSFC (Ken Could Use Some Flies Contest). Please submit your dozen from one or more of the following patterns and sizes, (the more times you enter the better your chance of winning). Yellow Humpy    14, 16, 18 Royal Wulff     12, 14, 16 Parachute Adams 14, 16, 18 The winner will be announced in this forum, and will receive INSTANT IMMORTALITY, WORLD WIDE ACCLAIM, and A SIX PACK OF ST. LOUIS BUDWEISER ! All entries will be judged by a panel of drunken ROFFians and the vast majority of the flies will be fed to ravenous rhododendrons. — Mr. Ken Fortenberry Sommelier

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Question:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont.  The question is whether they are open due to ice.  Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek.  Hatches are scant.  Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers.  Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall.  Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

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Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

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Question:

Wayne Knight: (envious story snipped) Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO

Here we are sittin’ out a snow storm and you’re fishing!  ’Tain’t fair.  It was a good day, Wayne, just to be out there. Dave L.

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Ok, Forty you asked for it….

Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ok, Forty you asked for it…. Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow.

FWIW, they are calling for snow here tonight and tomorrow. Sure hope it does not impede my flight home to Geneva on Friday. Hopefully tho, my daughter will have the driveway and sidewalks shoveled for me by the time I do get home. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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[trip snip] Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Y’know that’s really cruel to post such a report to the snowbound.  :)

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Ok, Forty you asked for it…. I drove out of Kansas to Aurora Mo this past weekend where I met up with Kerry Evans, a contributor to the board, and a long time resident of SW Missouri. Crane is a creek I’ve been hearing about for about a year and wanted to try, plus it is about the closest real trout water to Halstead KS, being only 260 miles away, and whatever it’s faults as a fishing destination, eastern Kansas has some damn good roads <g. All things being equal, I would have prefered to let the weather change a little more but not having seen a trout since October I was going through withdrawal symptons. After meeting for breakfast, I followed Kerry to the creek. Yup the water is low, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelly low, and it was is gin clear. The only other time I’ve seen water this clear has been in WI spring creeks in the fall, never in the winter. Kerry did his best to put me over fish, even though the water was low, there were enough deep pools to support fish. Funny thing with a couple of exceptions we would fish the pools and see nothing and then cross the stream in 6" water and see fish scattering away from us…..There was this one pool which we saw several fish, but just could not get them to take our offerings. We did find some rising fish and we did our best to put them down Being winter, while there was some insect activity on the surface, the bugs were small. A size 20 Griffith’s Gnat might as well been a #10 Green Drake, these bugs were that small. Yours truly at the start was casting, if you want to call it that, as if I was just learning what a fly rod was having forgot my backcast, drink, forward cast routine…..and I probably had a false since of security, it being winter and all was not being too careful with the brush around the stream. I admit, I was cocky, I had never been stumped in Missouri before and really did not want to stealth my overweight out of shape self. Kerry was great, he is a fine fly fisher, a super guy, and to boot, he builds a rather nice rod too. But as sometimes happen, he too could not connect fly with fish. Finally, about halfway down the section we were fishing, we came upon a pool with two risers, Kerry being the gracious host he was, offered the pool to me. I figured screw it on the small stuff and tied on a favorite Michigan pattern, a size 14 parachute Robert’s Drake figuring that maybe the bow’s wanted a real meal for a change. After deteriming the first riser was a little one, I did my best Fortenberry imitation and slid along the pool side and side armed cast the drake under a tree branch to the other riser…..I was rewarded with a healthy bow which turned out to be the only fish of the day. Though the fishing was tough, and frankly had we been a little more careful, we might have been better rewarded, but we only saw one other fisherman and last we checked, he had not been successful. The creek needs some water but I will be back and will be better prepared next time. I bet in spring and fall colors the stream scenery is just dynamite. And Kerry told me about some other streams which have not been written about, they will stay a secret but I will be visiting them too! Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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Question:

Nice job, Joe!  You said exactly what I’ve been thinking. The pettyness and personal attacks have gone on too long. IMO, both Ken and George have, in the past, posted many worthwhile comments.  Lately, I’ve been skipping anything by either of them because I’m sick of the off-topic rants. Too bad for me because I’ve probably missed some grains of wisdom. Dave Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. clipped! Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

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My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder.

I’d share a bottle of Laphroig with George anytime. Just my $.02

Worth at least 3 or 4, in my book. — Ken Fortenberry

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter

No Peter, You’ve fallen behind a little now!  "The Famous Grouse" is the tipple these days. — Bill

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I don’t listen to anyone whose opinion I don’t respect Bill and that is something that has to be earned. It doesn’t come with a smart mouthed repost on a newsgroup! — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

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Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

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Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well.

 Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

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 On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one"

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter

because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

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It is amazing  how some of you are so two faced and cowardly that lurk among us.  The latest bullshit is going to stop and its going to stop right here.  All of you can either watch or join in.    I am going to do this systematically and point out by time and date the two-faced, lying hypercritical rag-mouth that Fortenberry really is. This will be short and sweet.  The we will move onto the latest news in my and your lives. I will begin by answering K.F’s post about GRAND AMERICAN DEAL OF THE YEAR and then onto one more or two.  It went like this, what he posted. Technically, Spam is unsolicited commercial email. We call Gehrke’s repeated commercial postings to ROFF Spam, but technically it’s Usenet abuse. Spam is illegal in Virginia, other states are considering similar laws. Spam is criminal. What Gehrke does to ROFF is not an actual crime, but a cybercrime. He has Spammed us, of course, and through poor mailing list management allowed others to Spam us. I doubt he’ll do it again. There’s really nothing we can do about ROFF abuse other terminate his account if enough of us bitched about him. I don’t know that it would deter Gehrke in the long run. He’s lost accounts at least once before and he shows no signs of having learned anything from the experience. In my opinion he’s just shooting himself in the foot by advertising here. He makes far more enemies than potential customers by abusing ROFF and in the long run that will be our best defense. Just don’t buy anything from anyone that advertises in ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry Go to this one to see retort.

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correct K.F. about anything.  He knows what he is doing and so does everyone else here.   I just want to make the following points and the subject is closed. 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again. End of discussion. Mr. G. Now then, on to new and more exciting things.  Let’s have some fun!

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Mr. G wrote 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

My opinion is that the level of commercialism you engage in on ROFF is not tactful.  You step over the line.  But I admit, that’s just one person’s opinion.  Thing is, I believe that many agree with me. Would you consider not advertising your products here if it were clear to you that most people find that many of your posts are too commercial? Like you, I am absolutely against any kind of control of this newsgroup aside from self control.  I just wish that you would exercise the latter. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again.

You are not a cybercriminal.  But you are a spammer according to what I consider to be spam.  If I’m the only one who thinks this, then hey…ignore me.  But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify your commercial posts as spam. —                                                       -dnc-

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But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify

your commercial posts as spam.< True, but it’s *our* spam.  I for one have no problem with a group regular "spamming" the group.  For the most part, I consider that to be information, not spam.  Outsiders are a different thing, of course, but I find George’s posts to be of considerable interest.  And when I don’t, I just go to the next post.  No big deal.  Sure, it takes up some bandwidth, but to me, that’s no problem, ‘tho I realize it has been for others: I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

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(snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants.   Dave LaCourse

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Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants. Dave LaCourse

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Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  

The email problems were after he left, I think. People were emailing him for advice and asking him to write poems (he never did name names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

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Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back.

Excuse the intrusion, but I would appreciate it if the subject header did not include my name. HOT DAMN, Illini 32 Ohio State 27 at the half. If the men in Orange & Blue pull this one off I may just have to drive up to Chicago and watch tomorrow’s game in person. — Ken Fortenberry

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter "There is a Demon within us  whose soul belongs to hell  Won’t someone save us sinners" "The sun goes down"

<snip  names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

No, nothing that sinister, just George. He has irritated some people and been irritated by some people. Words and spam have been exchanged. Unfortunately, some good folks have decided to forgo roff as part of their daily diet. ‘Business’ as usual on roff<g. — Charlie…

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 If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

That’s one option, and the one most often recommended. Unfortunately one cannot go to rec.crafts.dollhouses and discuss fly fishing. If you want to dicsuss fly fishing on Usenet, this is the place. If you see malfeasance here you either speak up or accept it. I choose the former. — Ken Fortenberry

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Naw — they drink Macallan Scotch and smoke pipes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

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Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. Firstly George, I’ll state up front that I generally like you and find your informational posts helpful.   Your willingness to share your knowledge and opinions are a positive contribution to this newsgroup.   However: 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

This is quite true.   The is no point to "rules" because there is no practical way to enforce them.   When we see behavior we object to, our best alternative is to publicly inform the offender.   If enough people join in the objection, we can hope that the offending party will realize that he/she has stepped over the line of commonly accepted behavior.   If no one else objects, we must consider that our personal standards may not be congruent with those of the ng as a whole. Now George, I think it has been clear that while your abundant commercial posts were also informational and  accepted without comment by many, a significant portion of the ng had a problem with them.   I think that the number of posts (no, I didn’t count them) complaining or otherwise commenting on your "over-commercialism" and even using the "S" word should have been an indication to you that you had stepped over the line into a kind of tactful commercialism that the group didn’t tolerate.   Even I nearly put you in my kill file, and I like you.   For ROFF to be able to police itself, people must be occasionally willing to back off and look at what the ng is really telling them. George and Ken F. –  I have been somewhat amazed that many of your posts have been extremely thoughtful and intelligent, yet some of your personal attacks on each other were so far over the line as to defy logic.   Many here cannot espouse a rational opinion without personal invective and name-calling, yet you both seem simultaneously capable and irrational at times.   From my observations (more time lurking than posting), nasty personal attacks are neither acceptable to nor appreciated by the ng members.   Sometimes turning the other cheek or taking the high road can do a lot of good toward solving a problem; and you’ve both tried it on occasion.   My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format.

We are who we are. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again

I guess all I can say is that you need to trust us more.   Most of us are intelligent folks.  We know what spam is and we know what criminals are. We consider the source.   An extreme example was the dear, departed D-Version.   Who gave a shit what he said?   I think you sometimes defend yourself more vociferously than necessary against irrational posts.   To those who respect you, no defense is necessary.   To those who dislike you, any defense is pointless. On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

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Question:

Beleive it or not, we have discussed it. If your looking for answers to your walleye questions why not join The Walleye List, the Internet

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4K Download

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Doesn’t work for me. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

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Is there any chance you could post your web page on the actual web? This is the Usenet. Sheesh! : <HTML : <head : <titleConsumer Outdoors</title : <meta name=3D"author" content=3D"Garrie McDonald" <snipped a bunch of html crap —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

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Question:

it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.  I was about to wade over to the fly when a rainbow jumped up and neatly hooked himself. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  

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As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.

This past June, I fished Corbett Lake near Merritt, British Columbia.  The lake is stocked with two strains of rainbows.  One strain eats a lot of snails, and gets quite big, but fights without a lot of jumps.  The other strain, more insectivorous, is the wildest leaper, and strongest strain of trout I have ever caught.  At least a couple of times a day during my four day stay on the lake, I would witness trout, some up to 6-7 pounds leaping as much as THREE FEET out of the water to nail damsel flies.  One of these surface to air missles did its thing about five feet away from me while I was out in my float-tube.  Man do I ever wish I had a picture of that! Troy

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it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.

Isn’t what Irish style dapping* is all about ? —      ~adj~

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Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive. I also have a friend whose father was lucky enough to own an island in a beautiful Lough ( Lough Erne in Co.. Fermanagh N Ireland). They had a mobile home on the island – the only structure there – and were out  boat fishing one summer dawn. The surface was like a mirror- but boiling with rising fish as far as the eye could see- but for 20 minutes they could not touch one, then the rise died.  Still they went back for a lovely breakfast on the 3 lb.. brownie who committed suicide – it jumped into the boat and perhaps through frustration they gave it the last rites and enjoyed their meal!  Gillaroo

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Every Fall I am able to watch the AIM-9 Ballet on the Mccloud in Northern California at Ash Camp.         Harv

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That’s a pretty good description of dapping. The only other thing I would add is that it works even better if you use two flies. The flies have to be big (Bivisibles will do – we call them Loch Ordies) and you connect the point fly to the second fly with about 3-4 feet of heavyish tippet. The point fly isn’t dressed and so tends to stay subsurface. The second fly is treated with floatant and tied directly to the end of the leader. The trouble with dapping is that you need a good wind, and with only one fly it tends to spend most of its time about six feet up (where not even a rocket-propelled trout can get it). With an anchor fly, the floating fly still jumps about, but stays near enough the water, and with good luck, it will confine itself to skating on the surface. On a good day, dapping can be terrifically exciting – you have to remember not to strike until the fish has gone down. On a bad day, watching paint dry is more fun. If you ever try it, make sure you have a good steady wind. You can take salmon on the dap, and probably steelhead too, I would think. The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive.

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gillaroo

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The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew

Of course you can also dap with Daddy-long-legs (Crane flies). I was out dapping an artificial on Loch St. John’s, Caithness, during a good fall of the naturals and getting no offers. I added the natural to my detatched body artificial, and a brownie managed to remove that without me feeling any contact. How do the DO that? Got a few later when the breeze got up a bit tho. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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maybe it fell off?

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I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. I watched two good-sized trouts eyeball these dipping, skipping flies and nail them mid-air–anywhere between 1/2 to 2 inches off the surface of the water…and this with plenty of bugs stuck in the film or on their way up. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

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Last summer, I was standing on the shore of a lake north of Sudbury, Ontario watching rising brookies and clouds of tricos backlit by the setting sun.  Occasionally I would see a fair sized brookie jump clear of the water.  I could not understand why on earth a 12-14" brookie would jump for a size 24 trico.  Then I saw the object of their desires.  Huge dragonflies were crusing the trico hatch, picking them off.  As one flew a bit too low, a brookie jumped clear of the water after it, just missing it. While some were content to sip tricos, others were clearly after bigger game. On the Grand River, I had a small brown nearly land in my lap.  I think it was chasing emerging green drakes.  It made one jump for a rising dun about five feet from me, fell back into the water and immediately took off after another right at my feet, jumping directly at me.  I literally looked right down its throat.  I could only imagine it giving the fishy equivalent of "Oh shit!" when it saw me. It certainly didn’t hang around long! Peter

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I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne…. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before….

Stephen         Yeah, on  a mid-Wisconsin stream once when the big white flies we get here that I at least imitate with "White Millers" were bouncing around. (I could go look up the scientific name of the bug but am too lazy. They are something like "Euphoren Leukons.") I too found no good way. Tried siliconing up a few to the max and then skating them very fast and if I recall got a few, but I certainly did not feel I had cracked the puzzle. God knows why they were doing it, there were enough emergers on the surface. Maybe they were just like well-fed cats that won’t go near anymore static food but if a tidbit dances by they just can’t resist. Reminded me of one of Robert Traver’s stories in one of his books about two buddies of his who made a haul of trout by one on either bank of a stream and then stringing a line above the water from which they dangled a fly. That sounded like crap to me then, and still does, but, like you, I have now seen that the underlying phenomenon is real. Cheers, TB

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Last September I packed into the John Muir Wilderness.  Two of us fished a small stream (you could step across it in most places) at about the 9,500′ elevation.  We found a few pools about the size of a large bathtub.  The pools were surrounded by brush and we had to lean over and dangle our dry flies over the water.  As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  I’d put my money on Traver’s story.

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during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)?

Yes, on a few occasions I have had fish come out of the water to take a fly before the fly had touched down. Usually in high-mountain streams where the seasons are short and feeding is heavy. Besides seeing trout do taildances to feed on caddis hatches, I have seen trout come out of the water to take large adult stoneflies. If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

The only times I have had fish come up to a suspended fly (compared to one that was still falling to the surface) were in very windy conditions. Getting the fly to hang over the water in a 30 mph wind was no problem. I just could not get the damn thing *down* to the fish as it danced across the surface of the water chasing my fly! It was fun to watch, though! Aside from suspending fly and line in strong winds (perhaps carry an enormous fan like the kind used in film studios?) the only thing that might work would be to use a *very* stiff, wire-reinforced line so you can lower the fly to the fish when it comes up for it. Not sure how one would spool that, though… Good luck. I’ve been pondering this same dilemma a long time myself, and haven’t really found a solution. In fact, having been met with howling derisive laughter at what was apparently taken as a feeble attempt at lying whenever I mentioned this, I haven’t even admitted to it in a good while. Cheers, Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Just a note about this group first, enjoy reading it very much, seems very polite which is unusual compared to other groups, enjoyable to say the least. I have seen this before but was lucky to catch the 4lb brook trout that acted like a SAM. I had the boat anchored about 5 feet upstream from a large rock and the wind was blowing about 35 MPH. I was using a 15 foot leader and was letting the wind carry the leader and fly. Downstream from the rock was a glassy area that is common as you realize and the combination of the wind and leader lenght, I was able to hover the fly over and around the glassy area. It only took about 3 or 4 minutes for the fly that was hovering about 5 inches above the water to be spoted by the brookie, next thing I saw was this darn fish leaping from the middle of the glassy area and take the fly, surprised the hell out of me and my fishing buddy and it took awhile to land the fish as we were laughing ourselves silly. Just incase you were wondering where I got the 4lb brookie, 60 miles SE of GooseBay labrador, No-Name lake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

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Question:

I’ve heard the same thing and don’t get it. I’ve fished the Nissitissit and Squannacook six times and never seen a fish, never seen a fly and never seen anyone catch anything with corn, worms or flies. I bought the TU book ages ago and Kaplan’s Middlesex County Rivers book last year, called the local shops and even changed my local TU chapter to the Squan-A-Tissit hoping to at least see a rising fish. I’ve decided it’s a scam supported by the local outfitters. They’re only an hour from my house but a waste of time when an extra hour will get me to the Deerfield, Farmington or N.H. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I went to fish the Nissitissit this saturday.  I would appreciate any tips people night have.  I have been told that this one of the best trout streams near boston.  But it seemed ‘dead’ to me, still tannic water. I tried the prescott bridge area which seemed in better shape and also the Henry Columbo area.  Does the stream die off in the later summer? How is the fall/winter fishing?

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I’ve heard the same thing and don’t get it. I’ve fished the Nissitissit and Squannacook six times and never seen a fish, never seen a fly and never [snip] While living in Boston, the Niss was a regular stop for me in the fall.  Caught

several large Brownies and saw more than I landed. What takes away from the river is that it warms up badly in the summer, and poaching. Poaching is a major problem in the FFO section.  The last time I was there, in the fall of 95′, a hunter told me that two guys and a can of worms took something like 60 fish out. We have similar problems in W. Pa.  Its a shame, because E. Ma has few opportunities for stream fishing for trout, and the Niss is perhaps one of the best.          good luck,          brad shuster

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Question:

fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont. The Duel is open to all fly anglers.<< While I salute and support the cause for which this is being staged, I must ask why it’s being limited to only fly anglers? TU is NOT a group for fly flingers only, as evidenced by the most recent issue of TROUT magazine. Don’t outings like this falsely indicate to the public that TU is an elitist group of snobbish fly anglers, when in truth it’s a cold water conservation group open to all (even worm dunkers and non-anglers)? I’m constantly battling the image that we are a fly fishing only group within my own TU chapter, and wish others wouldn’t work so hard to undo the efforts some of us have performed. Fair winds and following seas, Pat in Pawtucket  RI Board member, Narragansett Chapter TU

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  What wet fly catches the most fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont.     The Duel is open to all fly anglers.  A morning of fishing will be followed with an awards ceremony and a catered barbecue at Bolton Valley Resort where a bevy of door prizes – rods, tackle and guided trips – will be given away.    The premise behind the Duel is simple.  Anglers – two to a boat – float the Winooski from sunrise to noon.  Each flyfisher chooses their favorite two flies and only that pair of flies (one wet, one dry) may be used during the Duel.  Break off your dry on a 22-inch brown trout? Then you’ve still got the wet fly to use.  Snap off the wet on a submerged log? Well then your Dueling Days are done.  You will, however, be able to fish the rest of the morning for pleasure.      In addition to the door prizes, merchandise awards will be given away for the angler or team of anglers catching the most trout and the largest trout.  Money raised from the Duel’s entry fee of $150 per angler (there are corporate team spots available) will benefit Trout Unlimited’s conversation and restoration efforts on Vermont rivers.  A portion of the entry fee is tax deductible.    John Merwin, the well-known fly fishing author, will be one of the Duel’s guests of honor.      There is a limited number of entry slots available. For more     Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service – 800 805 6495     Vermont Outdoor Guide Association 800 425 TRIP     Fly Tiers’ Heaven 802 879 7304. Bring the family for a weekend of fun on the river and in the mountains and feel good contributing to this noteworthy conservation fundraiser.

GO WITH THE GOLD-RIBBED HARE’S EAR AND A BORCHER’S SPECIAL DRY FLY. You’ll win. Mr. G.

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 What wet fly catches the most fish?  What dry fly catches the most? In an attempt to settle that debate and raise money for Trout Unlimited conservation efforts in Vermont, the first-ever Green Mountain Dual Fly Duel will be held June 28,1997 on the Winooski River in Bolton, Vermont.     The Duel is open to all fly anglers.  A morning of fishing will be followed with an awards ceremony and a catered barbecue at Bolton Valley Resort where a bevy of door prizes – rods, tackle and guided trips – will be given away.    The premise behind the Duel is simple.  Anglers – two to a boat – float the Winooski from sunrise to noon.  Each flyfisher chooses their favorite two flies and only that pair of flies (one wet, one dry) may be used during the Duel.  Break off your dry on a 22-inch brown trout? Then you’ve still got the wet fly to use.  Snap off the wet on a submerged log? Well then your Dueling Days are done.  You will, however, be able to fish the rest of the morning for pleasure.      In addition to the door prizes, merchandise awards will be given away for the angler or team of anglers catching the most trout and the largest trout.  Money raised from the Duel’s entry fee of $150 per angler (there are corporate team spots available) will benefit Trout Unlimited’s conversation and restoration efforts on Vermont rivers.  A portion of the entry fee is tax deductible.    John Merwin, the well-known fly fishing author, will be one of the Duel’s guests of honor.      There is a limited number of entry slots available. For more     Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service – 800 805 6495     Vermont Outdoor Guide Association 800 425 TRIP     Fly Tiers’ Heaven 802 879 7304. Bring the family for a weekend of fun on the river and in the mountains and feel good contributing to this noteworthy conservation fundraiser.

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While I salute and support the cause for which this is being staged, I must ask why it’s being limited to only fly anglers?

‘Cuz it’s a bitch to cast a dry fly with a level-wind?

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Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can you check the regulations there closely for me Tim, and apply your best legal and ethical judgement as to whether it might also be illegal for a fisher to count his fish and tell me his fish count?  I believe the de facto intention for counting fish is for competition purposes. Also check as to how many points one might be dinged against their license for each infraction. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just a quick fact: In Colorado, this competition would be illegal… — TimW Halfordian Golfer Can you check the regulations there closely for me Tim, and apply your best legal and ethical judgement as to whether it might also be illegal for a fisher to count his fish and tell me his fish count?  I believe the de facto intention for counting fish is for competition purposes. Also check as to how many points one might be dinged against their license for each infraction.

I just reread the entire Colorado State pamphlet…probably the first time in 10 years.  Organized competition for any reason is expressly prohibited in all *rivers*.  You can hold one on a lake, but not a river.   Damned good thing too.  It’s hard enough to simply get a decent beat anymore, much less with some frikken one-fly- superman-contest going on… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

: Does anyone know who makes Cabella Fish Eagle fly rods I was watching a video by Stu Apte on Saltwater Fly fishing and he mentioned in passing that Cabella’s rods were built by G Loomis. Any Confirmations? Rodney Singapore

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 This reel was almost certainly made by the Sth company in Argentina.  It was identical in design and even carried the same symbols but a different label. Cannot speak for the new reels included in packages except to say that the new cassette fly reel looks surprisingly like the Sth cassette reels (just a guess).  

Yes, this would make sense because STH makes Loomis reels and the head STH engineer Roberto Sacconi is a friend of Gary Loomis. Loomis claims to be a real believer in the STH system. Cal — Fishin Buddy  o <<     o  |           These opinions are offered by weight  <     <  o       <J           provocative content may have occurred      <<       <<                    during shipping and handling.

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J.Vogel) says: Does anyone know who makes Cabella Fish Eagle fly rods I think the conclusions reached on the net include the following: Cabela uses rod blanks from G. Loomis to manufacture its fly rods.  We never decided who actually makes the rods but seemed to agree that they are of good quality and reasonable for the $$. My own experience supports this claim.  The outfit that I have included the Fish Eagle II rod and an MCD reel.  This reel was almost certainly made by the Sth company in Argentina.  It was identical in design and even carried the same symbols but a different label. Cannot speak for the new reels included in packages except to say that the new cassette fly reel looks surprisingly like the Sth cassette reels (just a guess).  I believe you also asked a question about who makes the Cabelas reel (in another post)…this reply may answer that.  If you are asking about spinning reels, we have discussed this and never reached an answer. Hope this helps.  Scott Maitland

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