Or you can do the D.C. version where they close their eyes before they get in the truck. Makes driving interesting, but they seem to make it.
Which gave rise to the joke: "How do you make a (insert ethnic group here) blind? Put a windshield in front of ‘em." Joe F. (who wouldn’t be so politically incorrect as to suggest the retelling of ethnic jokes.)
Fortunately I’m not at that point yet. Just want to avoid the tedious walk to shore and the rigmarole involved in dropping the waders, etc. (In addition to making a mint).
The technology already exists. You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall. I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
The technology already exists. You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall. I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g
Right. I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time. Not exactly what I had in mind. We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside. There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here. JR
Right. I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time. Not exactly what I had in mind. We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside. There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here.
Well, using their dry cuff technology, you should be even to close it off small enough so that *your* pecker won’t hang out. 
— Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/YNP.html
Yes, but strictly speaking, the only truly ethical method is blind (Kung Fu) fly fishing, where you keep your eyes tightly shut from the moment you stop the truck streamside until the time you start it again at the end of the day.
It’s still unethical if you drive with your eyes open. — Charlie…
Or you can do the D.C. version where they close their eyes before they get in the truck. Makes driving interesting, but they seem to make it. Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, but strictly speaking, the only truly ethical method is blind (Kung Fu) fly fishing, where you keep your eyes tightly shut from the moment you stop the truck streamside until the time you start it again at the end of the day. JR
Um, and you’re going to wear a pince-nez on a gear-zip and periodically place them in front of sunglasses? Yeah, no chance of looking er, "odd" there…<G. Yes, well, who can account for personal tastes? One man’s oddity is another’s charming eccentricity (helped along by a bit of wishful thinking).
No offense to you, MC, or his buddy, but if you hang a goose-neck magnifier from your vest, "charming eccentricity" will need all the help it can get… I think we may be not on the same page, so to speak. This would simply be a single small rotating lens that would pivot into place when needed – I doubt it be all that noticeable, hardly "borg-like" (it wouldn’t look like some Cobra helicopter sight), and might even be considered modest, even minimalist, amongst the eyeglass modification bunch. Actually, the more I thought about it after posting my reply, the more I wondered why I had originally dismissed the idea out of hand. I know a jeweler in Corvallis and will ask him about suppliers.
And if he can’t, I suspect a ‘net search will turn up a bunch, but if not, let me know – the guy who takes care of my watches has one (this is what gave me the idea), and I’d guess he knows where to get ‘em. Hell, RW has 2 grand Tommy Porchflopper frames with HUD-ready EvianTech2000 biolenses and MC is acting like Erkel and using CNC gear and sneaking into the labs at BASF to redesign Dwayne Wayne’s flip-ups (hey, these 80’s sitcoms just popped into my head, and no, I can’t explain _that_, either.) 
Fishing in the stream of consciousness again, eh?
Oh, not just fishing – swimming, boating, skiing, and generally cavorting about – the water’s always the right temperature, and it’s always clear as crystal. Even when it’s an elaborate set of circus animals, or the Roederer…. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JR
The technology already exists. You would have to modify it of course. Orfice…err I mean Orvis makes a waterproof cuff on their jackets if I recall. I imagine that could surely be modified for a schlong. Perhaps we should get ahold of Tarp Boy <g Right. I’m going to trust the technology used to protect yupyup forearms. Besides, a cuff is meant to have something (the hand) outside it all the time. Not exactly what I had in mind. We need something that opens, dum-de-dum-de-dum, then closes watertight, *with* everything safe and cozy back inside. There’s a fortune just waiting to be made here. JR
Why not just use a "sea bag" type closure on a fly (a pant fly, not a fishing fly)? Frankly, if you guys wouldn’t go out with enough crap loaded up and dangling off of you to make Batman jealous <G, the most you’d have to do is undo your suspenders and a belt. I put my (lightly loaded) vest on last if I have higher-than-waist "water gear" and have _nothing_ not in a pocket – I can ditch it in about 3 seconds. I just don’t find taking a wizz a big problem, but…. TC, R
<SNIP I e-mailed a couple of angling colleagues, ( mainly because I could not remember which one uses the gear ) the first one sent me this; http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/7823/14 He reckons it is the bees knees. This might be of interest to Wolfgang ! http://www.franeloptical.com/OPT150900N.html the firm has one or two other novelties which might be of interest, for instance; http://www.franeloptical.com/Hands_Free_Mags.html http://www.franeloptical.com/FRASNALO.html ( This looks like the swan neck magnifier my other colleague uses). This might work OK as well. http://www.frankedmunds.thomasregister.com/olc/frankedmunds/5.jpg A couple more just for interest; http://www.ilp-online.com/html/ultraviewer.html http://www.modernseniors.com/Make_Life_Easier/AD-Hands_Free.htm http://www.lifewithease.com/magnifree.html http://www.e-sci.com/genSci/1/1002/1005/10361.html http://www.lifeplace.com/Catalog/products/H/hands_free_magnifier.asp TL MC
<SNIP I e-mailed a couple of angling colleagues, ( mainly because I could not remember which one uses the gear ) the first one sent me this; http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/7823/14
Thanks for this and the other links. I knew about the Wood River magnifier. I was hoping not to have yet another thing hanging around my neck, but I’ll check it out at my local fly shop and see if there’s a way to attach it to my chest pack. Ah! Sometimes I think growing old was a mistake. JR
You might like to look at this; http://www.hatta.com/wecmag.htm Hmmmmmmm! TL MC
What about those watchmaker’s lenses that attach to the rim of the glasses-frame and rotate into position when needed? Most I’ve seen have several rotating lenses, but I’d guess you could get or modify it for only one lens of the needed strength. You might also talk to a surgeon’s supply house. See my reply to rw about not wanting to look any sillier than I absolutely have to.
Um, and you’re going to wear a pince-nez on a gear-zip and periodically place them in front of sunglasses? Yeah, no chance of looking er, "odd" there…<G. Person would look like a damn fly fishing Borg.
I think we may be not on the same page, so to speak. This would simply be a single small rotating lens that would pivot into place when needed – I doubt it be all that noticeable, hardly "borg-like" (it wouldn’t look like some Cobra helicopter sight), and might even be considered modest, even minimalist, amongst the eyeglass modification bunch. Hell, RW has 2 grand Tommy Porchflopper frames with HUD-ready EvianTech2000 biolenses and MC is acting like Erkel and using CNC gear and sneaking into the labs at BASF to redesign Dwayne Wayne’s flip-ups (hey, these 80’s sitcoms just popped into my head, and no, I can’t explain _that_, either.) <G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JR
What’s the silliest thing you ever saw another fly fisherman wear? JR
A cell phone….
If you use a chest pack, then there is a magnifier available on a swan neck, which attaches to it. It simply folds away when not in use. Looks like the magnifiers sold for attaching to some tying vices. It may even attach to a vest. I have seen a guy using one of these, he also has a light on it, ( a very neat LED mini-lite), I will ask him where he got it if you like?
Yes, if you would. I wear a chest pack more often these days than I used to. Breathables will eventually be pass
Thanks, Ken. I’m certainly not afraid of my fly shop, but the prices of the "starter" rods can be a little intimidating. I don’t figure to be a high volume fisherman … there aren’t enough hours in the year to accommodate all my hobbies. But I would like to own and use a lightweight graphite rod for use in the waters I do fish. And a $40 dollar rod that is decent make more sense to me _at this point in time_ than does a $200 higher-end beginners rod. Later on as finances and needs change, I could conceivably improve my equipment. However, I have heard it mentioned that one shouldn’t use the Cabela’s reels that come with the Three Forks rods. That’s why I asked about other reel choices. I’ll research the Okuma Sierra reels a little more now. Thanks again! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken, What kind of reel would you put on the "Cabela’s Three Forks model 908"? Inquiring newbies want to know … Hi Michael, A lot of folks like the Okuma Sierra, I’ve never fished with one but I’ve seen a few and they appear to be solid and a solid value. This is not my usual advice to newbies BTW, the original query came from Chuck who lives near a fly shop but is afraid of them. I usually recommend that newbies spend some time at the local flyshop, cast as many rods as posssible and buy the best equipment they can afford. This advice is no good, obviously, if you don’t trust the flyshop or if there is no flyshop in your area. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry
– Grumpy – http://grumpysplace.net "Nobody loves me but my mother…and she could be jivin’ too" – B.B. King —— Visit http://www.eddiekieger.com Go, Eddie!
I usually recommend that newbies spend some time at the local flyshop, cast as many rods as possible and buy the best equipment they can afford. This advice is no good, obviously, if you don’t trust the flyshop or if there is no flyshop in your area.
I think your advice is sound and I agree with the "buy the best" sentiment on two conditions: (1) you are pretty sure that fly fishing is going to be a lifelong hobby and not just a one-trip phenomenon, and (2) you cast well enough that the flaws in your form don’t lead you to choose a rod that will be ill-suited to your style when your casting improves. Based on those stipulations, my own advice is this… (1) Make as your first rod purchase an inexpensive matched combo (3 Forks or Scientific Anglers come to mind). Don’t spend more than about $100 for the whole shebang. (2) Visit several flyshops to purchase flies, leaders, and/or casting lessons. (3) Take at least three serious fishing trips with your "beginner combo" to make sure that fly fishing is going to be an enduring hobby. (4) Purchase the best graphite rod/reel you can afford from the flyshop (see step 2) that has best earned your business. (5) Learn how to build a graphite rod from a kit so you can save money (and increase your satisfaction level) on the subsequent rods you purchase, because you WILL purchase subsequent rods! Again, that’s my own advice. –Steve
(1) Make as your first rod purchase an inexpensive matched combo (3 Forks or Scientific Anglers come to mind). Don’t spend more than about $100 for the whole shebang.
I’ve always been a proponant of inexpensive gear and made the statement in the past that any rod today, with the exception of bamboo, would cast at least as well as any rod made 30 years ago. When I borrowed a rod at the Montana Clave, I learned how wrong I was. Although I’m not a great caster, I’ve cast alot of different rods and was able to fish reasonably well with all of them. It was like this rod was made so casting was difficult. It had all sort of strange vibrations during the casting stroke. Although, with effort, I was able to get line out, I never knew where the line was going. I think the rod would have cast a bit better with a heavier line, but there was something wrong with the rod. I still think there are lots of good, inexpensive rods out there. In fact, most of my rods are made from inexpensive blanks but there definately are some dogs out there too. This thread has pointed out a number of good options. A kit, as long as it is truly balanced, or an outfit assembled by someone who knows what they’re doing is the best bet. The first time I tried to learn to flyfish, I was a kid and used an outfit that consisted of a rod that was somewhere around an 8 weight and a line that was probably about a 4 weight. Obviously, I was unable to learn and gave it up after a short time. I didn’t know any fly fishermen but eventually through reading, figured out about balancing the line to the rod and learned to cast with the purchase of a different line. Willi
Unless you’re you’re doing some fairly extreme flyfishing where a good drag system is necessary, the reel is nearly irrelevant. You can get along just find with any cheap reel that will hold your flyline. If you want to economize, the reel is the place to do it. Buy the best flyline you can find and a decent rod. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
I haven’t fly-fished for years. I am interested in buying an outfit that would suit me for bass-steelhead-salmon. I am confused by the different line weights and wuld need something that I could use to cast a 4 inch worm on a small hook for bass ( i had a friend who had great success lake fishing for bass along the shore doing this ). I realize that this is a horrible thought to some purists who would only think of casting "flies" but I am a practical fisherman. Some of the fisherman in this area of northern calif use 12 foot rods for steelhead and salmon. Anyway I am looking for some ideas. I live near a great fly shop that I use for fly-tying materials but I am afraid they would sell me a outfit that would have limited versatility and a high price.
… I am interested in buying an outfit that would suit me for bass-steelhead-salmon. I am confused by the different line weights … Anyway I am looking for some ideas.
Line weights are actually the easy part of your query, Chuck. You’re gonna want either a 7 or an 8 weight. The other parts are much harder to give guidance on, none of us knows what would suit you, in the first place, and most folks like a faster action for a bass rod and a slower action for a salmon/steelhead rod. Here’s my suggestion, get the Cabela’s Three Forks model 908, that’s a 9′ rod for an 8wt line. It’s only $40 and a lot of the guys around here swear by them in the smaller sizes. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry
Ken, What kind of reel would you put on the "Cabela’s Three Forks model 908"? Inquiring newbies want to know …
Hi Michael, A lot of folks like the Okuma Sierra, I’ve never fished with one but I’ve seen a few and they appear to be solid and a solid value. This is not my usual advice to newbies BTW, the original query came from Chuck who lives near a fly shop but is afraid of them. I usually recommend that newbies spend some time at the local flyshop, cast as many rods as posssible and buy the best equipment they can afford. This advice is no good, obviously, if you don’t trust the flyshop or if there is no flyshop in your area. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry
Ken, What kind of reel would you put on the "Cabela’s Three Forks model 908"? Inquiring newbies want to know … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … I am interested in buying an outfit that would suit me for bass-steelhead-salmon. I am confused by the different line weights … Anyway I am looking for some ideas. Line weights are actually the easy part of your query, Chuck. You’re gonna want either a 7 or an 8 weight. The other parts are much harder to give guidance on, none of us knows what would suit you, in the first place, and most folks like a faster action for a bass rod and a slower action for a salmon/steelhead rod. Here’s my suggestion, get the Cabela’s Three Forks model 908, that’s a 9′ rod for an 8wt line. It’s only $40 and a lot of the guys around here swear by them in the smaller sizes. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry
– Grumpy – http://grumpysplace.net 2000 FLSTC "Babe" – 1987 XLH 1200 "The Wolf" "Nobody loves me but my mother…and she could be jivin’ too" – B.B. King —— Visit http://www.eddiekieger.com Go, Eddie! rmh FAQ’s: http://home.earthlink.net/~mildness/yo/
Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity! Unlike the new ISP I just subscribed to, which apparently only posts periodically. I will use your suggested service I believe. Op
Cool Ope, and as a backup here’s one out of Canuckland that is even faster: (free-news.risq.qc.ca) with apologies to all our hoser roffians. Frank (pro-hoser) Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity! Unlike the new ISP I just subscribed to, which apparently only posts periodically. I will use your suggested service I believe. Op
Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity!
That’s funny – my Alacrity Detector(tm) didn’t go off… /daytripper ("Back to the laboratory!")
Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity!
*alacrity*? a guy from boone who uses "alacrity"? what the hell is the world coming to? you go, opie! wayno
I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity!
Damn Opie, now *I’ve* gotta go look something up in the dictionary…. Regards, Jeff
That’s funny – my Alacrity Detector(tm) didn’t go off…
That’s because it’s calibrated in nanoseconds. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
I just got the news service that you recommended up and running. It posts messages with alacrity! Damn Opie, now *I’ve* gotta go look something up in the dictionary…. Regards, Jeff
Jeff, I got tired of hauling out my dictionary with the fine print just to read a fly fishing News Group so I bought a talking dictionary on a CD. Now I look them up with alacrity. I even know how to pronounce strange words that show up on ROFF. Ernie Harrison
That would sure help explain ROFF…
Even in a parallel universe of one’s own design that would be a very tall order.
Response # 2 Not really. I profess complete understanding of NADA.
Hey, that’s great Dave! Can you tell me how much my old ‘84 Isuzu pickup is worth? :-) Joe F.
If it’s your fishing vehicle then it’s priceless. I wish I still had my old 1970 Datsun pickup. It had a hundred thousand miles of great fishing memories on the odometer. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you tell me how much my old ‘84 Isuzu pickup is worth? :-) Joe F.
If it’s your fishing vehicle then it’s priceless. I wish I still had my old 1970 Datsun pickup. It had a hundred thousand miles of great fishing memories on the odometer.
A truck like this is "priceless" anyway. It’s too worthless to sell & is basically unsound and unsafe, but to replace it would cost thousands. There’s something great about a vehicle that you don’t have to worry about beating the hell out of. It got relegated to "farm" use a few years ago. I once carried a round bale of hay in the bed (one of those really big ones). Damned frame was riding on the axles, the springs having completely given up, and the whole rig was extremely top heavy. Better than an E-ticket at Disneyland. Managed to get 42 regular bales piled on it once, too. As it happens, the odometer turned 100K on the way home from a salmon trip a few years back. Still going strong. Great truck. Joe F.
Joe, My old Datsun pickup had a hellish set of overload springs on it. I called it Buckshot, because every time you went over a bump it bucked and shot you into the roof. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A truck like this is "priceless" anyway. It’s too worthless to sell & is basically unsound and unsafe, but to replace it would cost thousands. There’s something great about a vehicle that you don’t have to worry about beating the hell out of. It got relegated to "farm" use a few years ago. I once carried a round bale of hay in the bed (one of those really big ones). Damned frame was riding on the axles, the springs having completely given up, and the whole rig was extremely top heavy. Better than an E-ticket at Disneyland. Managed to get 42 regular bales piled on it once, too. As it happens, the odometer turned 100K on the way home from a salmon trip a few years back. Still going strong. Great truck. Joe F.
Joe In the words of my favorite musical group . . . A little bit is better than nada Sometimes you want the whole enchilada A little bit is better than nada A little bit, or nothing at all. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, that’s great Dave! Can you tell me how much my old ‘84 Isuzu pickup is worth? :-) Joe F.
Actually Bob the Ernie Harrison Knot machine is an incredible devise. Im thinking about buying one to burn a new CPU on my old Intell. In my opinion it will do a fab job. And at virtually no cost.
It’s "Intel", Dave. One "l". I’m not a spelling Nazi, but you keep doing this and it’s bugging me. BTW, I hate Intel and I’ve never bought an Intel product. They’ve been a great investment for some, though. If New Mexico wants to subsidize Intel plants that’s none of my beeswax, since I don’t live in New Mexico. If I did, and if I knew the facts, I might oppose it. Call me crazy, but I find that the Pentium chips they make in the stores aren’t up to the ones that I make better thru my exercise of free will and free market gumption. The fact is that anyone can see that the "chips" made in the store cannot possibly have the care and love that I give mine.
I see. Maybe you should market your chips. Along with your special salsa. One thing you will learn from the computer/software contingent on ROFF: Its OK to make it up as you go. So, economics? Make it up. Behavioral science? Make it up. History, geography? make it up. It is not really important to actually study and learn about these disciplines to be able to firmly assert arguable propositions about them.
These issues are far too complex for any simple solutions we might come up with in ROFF. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)
Take me to your leader ? TL MC
You know how you always wish you had a third hand when you tied blood knots ? Ernie just tapes an inflated surgeons glove to his plonker… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.
You know how you always wish you had a third hand when you tied blood knots ? Ernie just tapes an inflated surgeons glove to his plonker…
Doesn
shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale
john: we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place. please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno
john: we are more than 200 miles inland, and hugo (1989) damn near destroyed our old home place. please consider getting the hell out of there. wayno
Wayno and John, My pal Phil just pointed me in the direction of this thread, and I sincerely hope that Floyd does you no harm. The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! Hope you all keep well. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk
The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening!
I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g. — Charlie…
The pictures we received showed Floyd as large as Florida – frightening! I’d heard it was the size of Texas which, as you probably know, is bigger than planet earth<g.
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet… — Phil Jones
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…
Floyd pretty much missed John, nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland), we’ve heard from Jeff under curfew, I’m wondering about Indian Joe in Wilmington. Anybody heard ? — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1
Joking aside, John and wayno are worryingly quiet…
True, and I hope for the best. I just heard from a friend in Savannah who said she drove all the way to Tennessee to find a room but there was no damage when she got back. Pretty scary. — Charlie…
Excuse me… I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..?
LOL ! No sir, I would never insult a proper single malt. I am merely saying that a healthy percentage of the world’s Balvenie production is CONSUMED in Greensboro, North Carolina. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 2 – Tar Heels 1
nothing could hurt Wayno short of a disaster at the Balvenie distillery (Greensboro is well inland)
Excuse me… I thought Balvenie was a single malt, a proper scotch… Are you saying that it’s fabricated in Greensboro..? — Phil Jones
Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish
Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year.
We had an entertaining afternoon here as well, Dave. Plenty of wind though no damage in my area (central MA) and a boatload of rain. Not much more than an inconvenience, really, though I suspect the coastal denizens had a tougher go of it. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing.
Good luck to ya! Hope the high water gets the fish moving your way. /daytripper
floyd’s downpour on eastern nc has really whipped our ass. we had 15 inches of rain in about 24 hours. many of the towns east of raleigh along rivers and creeks are suffering substantial flooding and water damage. Greenville has been cut off in all directions by washed out and flooded roads in and around the area. The Tar River is rising and expected to crest at about 26 feet above normal over the next 2 days. Some folks are being evacuated from the roofs of their homes, others are stranded. The sole remaining power substation serving the city and county (app. 55,000 folks) is in jeopardy of being shut down by the flooding, and if it goes officials fear it will be several days before the current is reestablished. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Floyd, now a tropical storm, blew through Maine last night on it’s way to the Maratimes. Heavy rains, some winds, nothing serious really, though the power did go out. I woke up about 2 am when the eye passed over, the silence was deafening. I hope eveyone in it’s path came through safely and you fishing is good for the rest of the year. I’m off to the West Branch of the Penobscot this weekend for a week of salmon fishing. Flyfish
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl. John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001
If anybody has watched the news Fl. was treated kindly by floyd. We’re just fine. been cleaning up some limbs and such, nothing big. We did get some high winds(bout 40mph) but nothing spectacular and only 3" of rain. I’ve been watching the news and it seems Fl.’s good fortune was bad fortune for those in the northern climes. Luckily by the time it got there it had weakened significatly. With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
With the advantage of 20/20 hindsighte, it seems some news casters had derogatory statements about those who chose to leave. This was a terribly big and vicious storm as it churned up and just off shore and I hope those statements will not influence those of lesser expierience should the choice again need be made.
Good advice as usual John. Glad you made it through OK, I have a friend that lives near Savannah who evacuated and, though there was no damage when she got back, I hope she’d leave again under the same conditions. I’ve been in (literally) a couple of tornadoes, but hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…
hurricanes scare me bad. — Charlie…
i talked to pamlico jim this morning, and they are in a hell of a mess in greenville, nc. no power, no stores open, conditions may not improve for days; the tar river hasn’t even crested yet. there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno
… there is only one road open to the outside world. wayno
…and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! jeff
nah…a mere 15 inches or so in greenville, nc, but not a drop at elk creek…very bizarre to drive out of greenville where the river is about 27 feet above flood stage to elk creek – it’s even lower than when you guys were here, and crystal clear. the smallies are beckoning!! jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …and i took it to watauga county this morning!!! Did you get any rain up there? We didn’t get a drop down here. — Charlie…
Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina
Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina
Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here.
Our thoughts will be with you John… Big Dale
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last report I saw rated Floyd’s force at 155mph, one mph under classification as a Force 5 hurricane. I understand it is expected to come aground somewhere late tomorrow. My sincere best wishes to those of you, you families and your businesses in the wake of this pending monster. I was in Charleston in 1992 4 days after Andrew hit and saw the devastation this type of a storm can do and I hope you are all prepared and safe. Larry Medina Thanks, the daughter and two grandkids will probably go to a shelter. I’v got two dogs and two cats which we’ve considered loading in the camper and heading to higher ground but I think I’ll just sit tight with them and weather it out. My wife will make up her mind when the time comes but shes a fiesty ol broad and will probably stay too. I checked the generator and it fired right off so we’ll have power for the pump and icebox. We are inland a bit, bout 50 miles from the cape so shouldn’t be too rough less the st.johns rises. Walt if you are reading this, wish you were here. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
John, Thanks for the invite, but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it down for this monster. Hang in there bud and do me a favor, if that thing turns inland get the hell out of there. I’ve been through a few to many of those bastards…. From the looks of things, it looks like it’s gonna ride up along the coast and head our way….but don’t trust that river…it can get real big and nasty. Tight windows my friend, Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112 Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001
Was last there five years ago and am thinking of going again in August and know they have a new system for permits with a new automated Provincial Parc permit phone # and all (which I have), but I’m not sure of my dates yet so I have a simple question: Is the system basically the same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points? Thanks in advance. Sure wish those folks designing these automated tele systems would think about how to provide a way to get some simple information in addition to providing rote services. tgb
Is the system basically the
same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points? I was sending my answer, when aol decided to close down, so I may be posting this twice. I just received my Remote Area Border Crossing Permit today. Since most or all of the remote customs areas have been closed, you either have to do it by mail or check in at a spot that may not be near your crossing. By mail. they want a photocopy of Birth Certificate and $30 per person or family. Mine took about 2 weeks to process. Dave http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave
In response to my question as to permits for Quetico camping DavesVideo I just received my Remote Area Border Crossing Permit today. Since most or all of the remote customs areas have been closed, you either have to do it by mail or check in at a spot that may not be near your crossing. By mail. they want a photocopy of Birth Certificate and $30 per person or family. Mine took about 2 weeks to process.
Nah Dave, that’s a different thing. That’s for when you want to cross the Border at a … remote point of entry. But, for instance, if you are gonna go into the Parc from one of the northern entry points, and gonna come in from, say, Atikokan, and cross the border at Int’l Falls or Pigeon River, then you don’t need that, and that’s what I’m gonna do. That’s a permit to cross the border, needed at certain remote spots. What I’m interested in is the permit for camping. And my question again is whether the system for these is the same as it used to be: you call, reserve a permit for X date entry, then hafta pick same up at a Ranger station at the Parc when you go in, at which point you also pay. Answer anyone? tgb
We’re doing the same thing this year – reserve permits and pick them up at a rangers station. For what it’s worth, we reserved our permits back in Feb which was before the new system was put into place. Was last there five years ago and am thinking of going again in August and know they have a new system for permits with a new automated Provincial Parc permit phone # and all (which I have), but I’m not sure of my dates yet so I have a simple question: Is the system basically the same now as it was before, i.e., you call, reserve your permit, but then gotta pick it up and pay at one of the Ranger stations at the entry points? Thanks in advance. Sure wish those folks designing these automated tele systems would think about how to provide a way to get some simple information in addition to providing rote services. tgb
- Mark Chun Santa Barbara, CA
In response to my post asking about current Quetico permit processes qrk We’re doing the same thing this year – reserve permits and pick them up at a rangers station. For what it’s worth, we reserved our permits back in Feb which was before the new system was put into place.
Hey, thanks, and for what it’s worth I found out I’m already screwed. Called to get a permit (finally nailed down my possible dates of entry) and they seem to have zip available for Aug. 12, 13, 14, etc. at entry points not also requiring one of these new remote border crossing permits. Arrgg. Anyone know of any nice lakes/areas up around SW Ontario not in Quetico where you can find some solitude, nice canoeing, and good smallmouth fly-fishing? Smallmouth just ain’t all that common once you get out of that neck of the woods. tgb
The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?
The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?
Sir, How to vote: Your e-mail message should contain one and only one of the following statements: I vote YES on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying or I vote NO on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Votes must be recieved by 23:59:59 utc, 10 Apr 1996 Hope this helps Tight lines Dave
I’d like to her from someone in each State: What are the water access laws in your State? Doesn’t need to be long, but concise would be nice. Email or post. Colorado is exempt from this request, as I already know. Thanx. –Chris
As far as Maine goes, water access is not very clear. There is not one set of laws that cover rivers, lakes, great ponds, and their flowages. The state owns the land under a Great Pond (10 acres if natural, 30 acres if man-made) and you have the right to cross private, undeveloped land to get access – IF you cross by foot for the purposes of fishing or fowling. No vehicles, no mechanical aids (wheels under a canoe are out), etc. Developed land includes fields planted with commercial crops, so you can’t cross a wheat or corn field to get to the pond either. You also have the right to canoe any navigable water. Navigable means it can float a log. The right does NOT include access to the bottom of the river, nor does it include the right to go around obstructions like waterfalls – even if you stay below the high water mark. Fly fisherman cannot by law walk up any stream bed they choose – even if the water is navigable. Canoeist cannot legally get out of their canoe and line, jump on a rock, or wade through a shallow – although this is not enforced anywhere I know of. Dams and their flowages are owned by the dam owner, and they can post them no tresspass, so you cannot walk around the dam to get access to the river below. Most do not, and on popular runs, the dam owners either provide, or let volunteer groups maintain portage paths around the dam to avoid indiscriminate damage to their property. The legal liability of this access may cause more dam owners to post their property in the future. Many people in the state operate under the position that anything under the high water mark in a river is fair game and that you can carry around obstacles. This is not the case (according to the Parks and Recreation office) and you are trespassing when you do this. Maine land owners are fairly tolerant of canoeists however, and so we get away with this. The laws that are in affect in Maine are a conglomeration of multiple colonial ordinances that are still in affect since the time when Maine was part of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, something called the "Great Pond Act" and various court rulings over the years. I have asked the reference librarian at the state law library for help. If I get any better clarification on this I’ll let you know. Regards, -Tim
This would probably be better answered by someone with more law knowledge than me, but I haven’t seen anyone answer for California so I thought I’d post what I know. I seem to remember that the there was a major legal battle concerning public access along the South Fork of the American in California (sometime in the late 70’s?). The private land owners along some sections of it actually tried to get river rafting completely banned from the river. The result of the long and ugly battle was that the South Fork of the American was considered a navigatable waterway and therefore the private owners cannot restrict boating traffic on the river. Rafters also legally have access to land up to the high water mark. Despite the legal rights of boaters to be there, the section of river with most of the populated private property (ie. nice riverfront houses) has been designated as a "quiet zone". In the "quiet zone", boaters are supposed to speak in normal conversation and not yell or have waterfights. Also, out of respect to the landowners, boaters are supposed to choose state owned lands for lunch spots (and their are plenty of adequate places to stop that are not privately owned). Unfortunately I have no idea what the access laws are in Pennsylvania (the state where I currently live). Lori
So far I have: Colorado New Mexico California Arkansas Main Keep them coming. This important information. –Chris
Here’s a quick summary of the Arkansas Access situation. From……Arkansas Riparian Boundaries Richard L. Elgin and David R. Knowles Surveying and Mapping, Vol. 44, No. 1, 1984, pp. 39-57 "Until the recent decision of State v. McIlroy (268 Ark. 227) (1980), the Arkansas navigability criteria rested on the watercourse’s commercial viability. In State v. McIlroy, supra, the definition and commerce test for navigability was broadened to include recreational use. The case concerns the navigability of the Mulberry River, a favorite with canoeists, McIlroy, owner of land on both sides of the Mulberry River, sought a lower court ruling that he be declared the owner of the bed of the Mulberry River since the river was nonnavigable. The defendants were the Ozark Society, a conservationist group, and two companies that rent canoes for use on the Mulberry. The defendants generally claimed that the Mulberry was a navigable stream, but that even if the court found otherwise, a public easement in the Mulberry should be recognized. The lower court found that the Mulberry River was nonnavigable, that the McIlroys owned it as riparian property owners, and that they could prevent the public from using the stream (the McIlroys owning both sides). The State, the Ozark Society, and one of the canoe companies appealed to the Arkansas Supreme Court." From the record: The facts presented prove that the Mulberry River at the point in question is capable of recreational use and has been used extensively for recreational uses. We must now decide whether such a stream is navigable. While navigation in fact is widely regarded as the proper test of navigability…it is a test which should not be applied too literally… Arkansas has adopted a standard definition of navigability. Lutesville Sand & Gravel Co. v. McLaughlin, supra. The test, which was similiar to the general test used by the federal courts, defines navigability in terms of a river’s potential for commercial usefulness; that is whether the water could be used to remove the products of the surrounding land to another place… Therefore, a river is legally navigable if actually navigable and actually navigable if commercially valuable. (The court predicted that the waters of the state would be used to a much greater extent for recreational purposes than they were at the time of the decision (1915). The court observed that since that time no case had been before them that "involved the public’s right to use a stream which has recreational value, but lacks commercial adaptability in the traditional sense." The Court said the Arkansas definition was "remnant of the steamboat era.") Concluding, the majority decision concerning the navigability of the Mulberry, the Court said: Arkansas, as most states in their infancy, was mostly concerned with river traffic by steamboats or barges when cases like Lutesville, supra, were decided. We have had no case regarding recreational use of waters such as the Mulberry. It may be that our decisions did or did not anticipate such use of streams which are suitable, as the Mulberry is, for recreational use. Such use would include flatbottomed boats for fishing and canoes for floating – or both. There is no doubt that the segment of the Mulberry River that is involved in this lawsuit can be used for a substantial portion of the year for recreational purposes. Consequently, we hold that it is navigable at that place with all the incidental rights of that determination. In follow up, this case set the precedent which almost every paddler in the state knows about and several carry copies of the ruling in their shuttle rigs, however, there still remains landowners weilding guns, who insist on the respect of their ownership. As with many other states paddlers here backdown, avoiding confrontation many times. Currently most of the hairy runs either begin or end on private property and we have to be very careful here, even though we have an excellent precedent set by the courts. — Shelby D. Johnson, Research Specialist TEL: (501) 575-6159 CAST, Center for Advanced Spatial Technologies FAX: (501) 575-5218 12 Ozark Hall, University of Arkansas
What exactly are you looking for? I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup. -Dennis
What exactly are you looking for? I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup.
I’m trying to find what the legal river access is in each state. So far I have: Colorado New Mexico Alaska Arkansas Main California I know people paddle in more states than that….. –Chris
Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole.
Steve, there is an article in a very recent issue of Western FlyFishing which discusses these rubber soles. These soles have developed from rock climbing shoes. From this one article they sound pretty good, if they are the same as the soles discussed in the article. Keep in mind, too, according to the article, there is more research going on and improvements should be expected in the coming years. Good luck and good fishing! Bob Moss Landing, Ca.
Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve — Steven Grainger | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology | 10 ELizabeth Drive | Chelmsford, MA. |
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots. I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them. Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
Steve, I have a pair of Danner wading boots that are fantastic. they of course are felt soled and have tungston carbide tips imbedded in the boots. The boots are made to last, of course besides replacing the felt soles once in a while. I think the boots without the tungston carbide tips run about $121.95 and with the tips about $126.95. This is more expensive then most others but I think the Danners will outlast all other boots on the market. I also suggest the tungston carbide tips. Their great on slippery rocks. For myself wading boots are a must for any river wading. Wading rivers can be tricky business and having the best equipment possible makes it that much more safe, at least thats what I tell my wife when I go buy some expensive new equipment…hehe. Anyways if your interested in the Danners check around at places that sell Danner products. Here in Portland, OR we have a Danner outlet store that sells seconds at good prices. (cosmetic flaws only). If those don’t work I know Kaufmann’s Streamborn inc.(1-800-442-4359) address; P.O. Box 23032 Portland, OR 97281-3032 has them. Since I have my catalog out now, the upper part of the boot is made with bullet-proof vest material. Good Luck! Cory
Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks!
Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots. I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them. Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
Steve, If you are concerned about those "slippery rocks" you really should consider a wading boot with studs. I have the Borger’s Ultimate wading boot with the felt/studded sole. I’ve had them for 4 years and haven’t slipped yet! Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve — Steven Grainger | I stalk the wild trout. MRS Technology | 10 ELizabeth Drive | Chelmsford, MA. |
A comparable boot to abv. is Gary Borger Ultimate wading boot made by weinbrunner(sp ?) with tungstin tips _ Iv’e used mine for three years over 300 days on strems in new england and they are still fine. carbide tips are very useful give better traction and outlast felt soles. I bought these boots from Dan Bailey’s in montanna but are available from
absolutely, without question, the best wading boots on the market are the SIMMS Plasteks. Reintroduced, after a couple of years absence, they’re the most rugged, comfortable, lightweight, fast drying boots on the market.
<<SNIP Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Steve —
Hi Steve, I use the Orvis Battenkill Brogues with the carbide tipped steel studded felt soles ($115 with studded felts, $98 for felt soles). I typically use them about 100 days a year and they are great. They have a good toe box, good heel box, high ankle pad, speed laces, foam padded under-sole, and a shank that is as stiff as the ones on my hiking boots. Great support and little chance of a twisted ankle. I typically hike 4 to 6 miles a day when fishing on my own (as opposed to teaching the schools) and my feet still feel good at the end of the day. Great boots for tough conditions. If you have narrow feet, these will be too wide for you and I’d recommend you check out the Orvis Rocky Mt. boot which is also available with studded felts ($89 with studded felts, $72 without). The shank is not as stiff, but the boot shares most of the other features of the Battenkill Brogue at a lower price (wide feet won’t fit in these). Hope this helps, Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again. So what if they eat other fish? If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’ve been thinking about getting a new pair of wading boots. I see LL Bean has these boots called Aqua Stealth that have a rubber sole. They claim these soles work better than the felt bottom shoes. Has anybody had any experience with them? Furthermore, I’d be interested to hear what boots they feel are good. I fish here in New England so felt bottom boots are a must for the slippery rocks! Hi Steve, I know nothing about the LL Bean boots you reference but I’ve sure been happy with my Simms Freestone Boots. I’ve guided out of them for two year now and expect to get another year out of them. Of course the felts don’t last that long but are fairly easy to replace. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
From the looks of the Aqua Stealth boots in the catalog, they are the same as the Simms Freestones with the exception of the sole material. Perhaps a retrofit is possible. I also have the Simms and am quite happy with them. Joseph Iannazzone
Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen: Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks? Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks? Are these taken into consideration? Thanks alot. Flyfishers do it with longer rods
It depends on the manufacturer. Orvis sells their boots sized large, so if you wear a size 11 street shoe, buy a size 11 wading shoe. There’s plenty of room for a std neoprene wader and wool socks. I have nothing to do with the company, other than owning a pair of their wading shoes. Sean Brennan (.std disclaimers)
I checked around when I purchased my Simms Firehole wading shoes, and also when I bought a gift pair of Cabella’s for my son-in-law. (yes, it is nice to have a son-in-law who fishes!). In both cases I was told that they were sized to accomodate the extra footware. I really love my Simms, though I don’t have experience with others to compare. I have plenty of room for two pair of heavy socks. However, I wade wet, so do not know how much extra room to allow for the neoprene. I bought boot size = my shoe size.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen: Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks? Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks? Are these taken into consideration? Thanks alot. Flyfishers do it with longer rods — Flyfishers do it with longer rods
I wear a 10.5 to 11 street shoe, depending on manufacturer. I own a pair of stockingfoot Hodgeman waders and always wear 1pr cotton socks and 1pr wool socks inside them. I bought a pair of Cabellas wading boots in a size 12 to wear over this settup and they fit great. Looking at the other posts, I suggest you ask the sales person and try them out. For mail order, any company worth ordering from will let you try them out and exchange sizes with no hassle. Remember to keep the fit loose enough to fit lots of woolies in winter and still not compress the foam on that neoprene, but tight enough to give you sure footing on those shifty stream beds. Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . . .
Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen: Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks? Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks? Are these taken into consideration? Thanks alot. Flyfishers do it with longer rods — Flyfishers do it with longer rods
Not ever owning a pair of neoprene waders and on the verge of buying my first pair, a question has arisen: Are wading boots sized to fit waders and a pair of wool socks? Does a size 11 wading boot fit a size 11 foot plus the waders plus the socks? Are these taken into consideration? Thanks alot.
My size 10 neoprenes have a bigger boot than my size 10 camo waders. They are both LaCrosse. The camos are pretty tight with a thick pair of wools and an underliners, but the neos are fine. I’m a 9 1/2 D foot. You can also get Goretex foot liners for either of these. Before I lost one of mine, they were great. / V V V V V V V / King’s Computer Management, Inc. < 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 (o 1633 NE Hwy 10 VVV Y 612-784-8042 (voice) VVV Heddon Lucky 13 leopard: the lure doesn’t catch fish, fish catch the lure. Opinions? I’m married. I am not allowed to have opinions.
Wayne Trzyna writes: I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch & keep. There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major population centers. (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely nervous fish.) I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K fisheries (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives away).
Well said. Love those Nervous fish !
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Nahm writes: I can’t believe that 2% of Pat’s catch is killed! Responsible C&R with artificial bait should result in much lower kills than that depending on hook type & size and handling technique. Throwing fish over your shoulder probable doesn’t count as responsible C&R. I saw this technique recently on a fishing show. As a fly fisherman I can’t remember the last fish I had die. I guess maybe I’ve had a few on large streamers. Way under 1 in a thousand though. One thing you may have overlooked and that Pat Heron may have been factoring in Chip, is the fact that not all catch and release deaths are immediate. If a fish receives serious stress from a prolonged struggle, it may be liable to swim away after you release it and die somewhere else in the lake. Although it is very admirable on your part to desire or attain to a 99.9% successful release rate.
Pat never claimed that 2% of his fish die with C&R. Pat’s name was invoked by someone using his catch record as a justification or rationalization for keeping fish. A serious C&R fisherman never prolongs the struggle. Even +20 inch trout on size 20 flys can be landed in a few minutes by a skilled angler. Again if you release the fish slowly (I’ve held fish for 5 minutes or more and had them rest in the lee of my boot for another five minutes) in gentle water your kill rate will be much less than 2%. "Lassen Trout" a trophy pond (stocking genetically altered trophy trout in a couple of ponds) estimates their losses at under 0.2% (These are fish that are in the 22 inch to + 10 pound range). They’ve been operating for several years so they got pretty good data by now. They’ve got a large investment in these fish, they have to know how to manage their resource.
I haven’t followed this whole thread because I was fishing in Montana when it started, but I would like to contribute a thought I proposed in our local TU newsletter a couple years ago. Most people who responded supported the idea, but it hasn’t really led to anything yet. I proposed that people who want to fish blue-ribbon, C&R waters should have to pay a slightly higher license fee, and that the additional revenue from that fee should support hatchery programs. I reason thus: planting more trout in heavily fished streams close to the cities would encourage the "yahoos" (as one poster described them) to fish nearer home to fill their freezers. Those same people would probably not pay the higher fee to go farther to catch fish they couldn’t keep. Now, some might object that those of us who supposedly care more about protecting the "natural" resource shouldn’t have to pay more than those who would simply rape and pillage, especially to support their habit. I don’t disagree, but I think we have to recognize some realities. We’ll never turn all trout streams into blue ribbon streams, and the demand for kill your limit and higher limits will continue to put political pressure on fish and game departments (in some states at least) to resist too much quality fishing as the rest of us define it. I look at it as willingness to pay for a privilege. Any thoughts? gc
says: I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations. The yahoos (your term) do their share of filling their stringers but in many cases this is important because these C&K streams often don’t have the water quality past early summer to support trout. The yahoos do an efficient job of cleaning out the trout before the hot weather takes over.
Anyone who spends his free time trying to outsmart creatures with an immeasurably small IQ is a yahoo. ’Guess that includes all of us. — -Wayne Trzyna
Wayne, YAHOO!!!!! The bottom line…we all qualify. Scott
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I proposed that people who want to fish blue-ribbon, C&R waters should have to pay a slightly higher license fee, and that the additional revenue from that fee should support hatchery programs. I reason thus: planting more trout in heavily fished streams close to the cities would encourage the "yahoos" (as one poster described them) to fish nearer home to fill their freezers. Those same people would probably not pay the higher fee to go farther to catch fish they couldn’t keep. Now, some might object that those of us who supposedly care more about protecting the "natural" resource shouldn’t have to pay more than those who would simply rape and pillage, especially to support their habit. I don’t disagree, but I think we have to recognize some realities. We’ll never turn all trout streams into blue ribbon streams, and the demand for kill your limit and higher limits will continue to put political pressure on fish and game departments (in some states at least) to resist too much quality fishing as the rest of us define it. I look at it as willingness to pay for a privilege. Any thoughts?
Anyone, can pay an extra fee for the privilege to fish a blue ribbon fee. That doesn’t guarentee that the person is more concerned about protecting the natural resource. How about requireing that applicant for the special privileges license answer a few questions about preserving. Sort of a drivers license for fishing. If someone is going to allowed access to a blue ribbon stream, they should at least know the proper technique for releasing fish so that it may be there another day. John
I have just a little bit more to add to the C&R thread. Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. That’s 20 dead fish per year. Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard on the resource as Pat. -Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too! -john — John Danskin | Computer Science Graduate Student (609) 258-5386 | Graphics systems: network graphics & m-media (609) 258-1771 fax | Escape from Princeton planned 8/94.
-Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too!
Hence the reason some want to put bag limits on CAR. Though too complex to implement, water temps and flows certainly have an effect on CAR mortality, and should probably determine the limit. Reasonable anglers regulate themselves already. Thomas Gilg
| | I have just a little bit more to add to the C&R thread. | | Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them | all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. | | That’s 20 dead fish per year. | | Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should | I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard | on the resource as Pat. | | -Not catching too many fish in New Jersey, and proud of it too! | -john John, You are exactly RIGHT. If keeping 10 fish/year will harm a resource, then no one should probably be fishing there anyway. A guy who golfs at the same golfcourse every day will probably dig it up more in a year than a guy who golfs 4 times a year. However, the golfing fantatic may also be alot more consciencious about how he treats the grounds because it is his major avocation. In the case of fishing, the avid angler may be more likely to belong to or contribute to organizations (such as NCWF) which actively seek to protect and improve resources. I will add that I have not seen any *floaters* from the fish that I have released this year (although some may die later). I wonder what the statistics are on catch-immediate release vs. catch – livewell – tournament weigh-in-release. If the tourney boys claim 98-percent, certainly immediate release is somewhat better. I also think that in the summer in the South, 98-percent survival is a bit too generous. When the water gets into the 90’s there is damn little 02 disolved. I feel that when you hook a bass in 20ft of water in the summer, they are in cooler slightly more oxygenated water. Still 02 is low, and the fish quickly aquires a severe oxygen debt during the fight. When this severly stressed bass is returned to the hottest surface layer, they can have trouble. This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and use continuous aeration in the summer). After weigh-ins at local tournaments there are often several floaters. The smart clubs police the release location and pick up the fish who don’t make it so as not to add fuel to the fire of public sentiment against tournament angling. Not catching that many in NC lately either and damn embarrased… -Pat. BTW, can anyone recommend a good captain/boat for a tuna/dolphin (aka dorado) charter out of NC?
says: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (wayne trzyna) writes: | I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. | Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch & . keep | There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major n populatio | centers. (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely | nervous fish.) I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K s fisherie | (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives . away) | | — | | -Wayne Trzyna Wayne, This sounds like sports fishing at its best. Why not cut out the middle-man and allow anglers to fish in the back of the DNR truck? I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations. -Pat.
COUPLE OF THOUGHTS: In Pennsylvania the DER spends huge amounts managing C&K fisheries. They work very well and the state has a close-to-religious experience with the opening of trout season (deer season also). The kids are out of school and many people use a vacation day to skip work (or get a mysterious illness that coincides with opening day). The yahoos (your term) do their share of filling their stringers but in many cases this is important because these C&K streams often don’t have the water quality past early summer to support trout. The yahoos do an efficient job of cleaning out the trout before the hot weather takes over. I would say (in our area) that this fishery helps to cut down on those inclined to violate the special regs areas. We have a full gamut of special regs waters including entire streams of C&R, flyfish only, trophy waters etc. The good part of all this: most of the early season "fishermen" hang up their equipment about the time the good hatches start!! I’ve also spent some great opening weekends on special regs waters without seeing another person…and catching many more (and better quality) fish than I could in a stocked stream. Around here we tend to use the stocked streams as entertainment. Always fun to watch the people struggle with each other, fish the kids out of the water after falling in, …you get the idea. Scott Maitland
| I don’t know whether C&R kills fish or not, but it sure makes ‘em nervous. | Nonetheless, I think that C&R is not as hard on the resource as catch & keep. | There are some very productive C&R fisheries located next to major population | centers. (Productive, that is, if one is skilled in outsmarting extremely | nervous fish.) I know of no such heavily fished but productive C&K fisheries | (except during the first several hours after the hatchery truck drives away). | | — | | -Wayne Trzyna Wayne, This sounds like sports fishing at its best. Why not cut out the middle-man and allow anglers to fish in the back of the DNR truck? I guess that put and take locations help keep the yahoos out of the more restricted locations. -Pat.
Suppose Pat Heron catches 1000 fish a year, and releases them all like a good guy, and he’s careful so 98% of them survive. That’s 20 dead fish per year. Now I catch well under 100 fish per year (*well*). Why should I feel guilty if I kill 10 of them? I’m not being nearly as hard on the resource as Pat.
I can’t believe that 2% of Pat’s catch is killed! Responsible C&R with artificial bait should result in much lower kills than that depending on hook type & size and handling technique. Throwing fish over your shoulder probable doesn’t count as responsible C&R. I saw this technique recently on a fishing show. As a fly fisherman I can’t remember the last fish I had die. I guess maybe I’ve had a few on large streamers. Way under 1 in a thousand though.
| | This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot | | livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and | | use continuous aeration in the summer). | | I wonder about icing down your livewell too. I put a live pickerel into | an ice chest full of water and ice, and it died (convulsions and then nothing) | pretty much instantly. Temperature shocks in either direction can be harmful. | I guess you just have to use common sense when you decide hom much ice to | put in. I just wanted my pickerel to last until dinner time, and he (she it) | lasted just as well dead as he (she it) would have lasted alive. | | -john I agree, I don’t think that pulling a bass from a 90f weedbed and throwing it into a 40f livewell (later to be released into 92f surface water) will do the bass alot of good. I also have had trouble with chain pickerel in the warmer months. I have had several die while trying to practice C&R. I have found that they (along with lure of course) can get really tangled in a landing net having a fabric bag. The little bit of time it takes to untangle them can be long enough for asphixiation. They can often be released much more quickly if landed by hand. This exercise is not without its own perils. I still laugh when I remember John sitting in the boat with the front treble of a Mann’s baby 1- stuck through his pants and into his leg, the back treble was in the mouth of a wildly thrashing 26-inch chain pickerel. (This was even more entertaining then the time when John was helping me remove the hook from a 7# channel cat, the cat grabbed his thumb and rolled and sprained his thumb). -Pat.
It would be interesting to rank the relative importance of: 1. Hook selection - single or treble - wire diameter - hook size 2. Playing time ** - build up of acids - exhaustion 3. Damage caused during fight - damage from line strafing fish – body ** – gills - damage from fish hitting bottom or hard splash-downs - setting hook to hard on small fish and launching them airborne Smolts especially susceptable. 4. Water conditions * – temperature - pollution - flow * – oxygenation 5. Condition of fish - prespawn, postspawn, other times - natural ability to handle stress 6. Handling of fish * – contact with gills ** - damage to slime layer * – grip pressure resulting in internal damage ** - time out of water – exposure to air - damage caused from removing hook 7. Angler recovery period - technique used for release 8. Post-Angler recovery period - predators taking advantage of recovering fish ** - Continued acid buildup and eventual recovery from Single "*" items seem to be touted in most CAR literature, and the "**" items have been called out in reports/studies I’ve seen as major factors. The better CAR studies track the fish for *days* after release, since most CAR mortality happens long after (12 hrs to 2 or 3 days) the angler releases the fish – even the zippy releases often turn fatal because of the continuing chemical buildups *after* CAR. Thomas Gilg
Treble hooks should be banned, if anything.
I’ll second that! Mark — <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Harris Space Systems :: Melbourne, FL
| This problem is compounded if the fish goes into the sizzling hot | livewell (B.A.S.S. recommends that you ice down your livewell and | use continuous aeration in the summer). I wonder about icing down your livewell too. I put a live pickerel into an ice chest full of water and ice, and it died (convulsions and then nothing) pretty much instantly. Temperature shocks in either direction can be harmful. I guess you just have to use common sense when you decide hom much ice to put in. I just wanted my pickerel to last until dinner time, and he (she it) lasted just as well dead as he (she it) would have lasted alive. -john
Though too complex to implement, water temps and flows certainly have an effect on CAR mortality, and should probably determine the limit. Reasonable anglers regulate themselves already.
How fish are handled has more to do with mortality than total number of fish caught and released. At least, that is my intuition. Treble hooks should be banned, if anything. — -Wayne Trzyna