Question:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

Ditto. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto.

Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel. — Charlie…

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Ditto ditto. I also have the C clamp base. I use that at home and the pedestal when I travel.

For an economical, non-rotary vise, I started with the Griffin 2A.   A nice vise for not much money.   It’s worth mentioning in light of Charlie’s post that the clamp base for the Griffin and the pedestal base for the Renzetti are interchangeable between the two vises. Joe F.

Response:

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

I have the heavy-duty version of the Renzetti Traveler. I think it’s called the "Saltwater" model, but I’m not sure. Anyway, it gives me the flexibility to tie big steelhead flies, but it still works OK for small flies. I recommend the pedestal version. You can always fix it to your table with a small C-clamp.

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it.

FWIW (for the Western New England contingent), I just got back from BG Sporting Goods in Westfield, MA and all of their vises are 20% off, which makes their price on the Traveler with cam and pedestal base about $125.00. They also had some nice STH reels at 50% off. — TL, Tim

Response:

Joe F. writes: I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Ditto. Joe F.

Ditto Dave

Response:

I would recommend the Orvis rotary.

Second that George Adams "All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of youth that doth not grow stale with age."                                                           —- J.W Muller

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Another vote here for the Traveler Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range.

WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

Response:

So what vise guys.

Oh, vise guys, is it? Listen kiddo ve vas fly fishin ven your mama vas feedin you on prechewed gefilte fish!  HAH! Wolfgang i’ll give ya vise guys!    :(

Response:

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. WTF – did they go and rename the product line? Or did all those years of Reagan-era inflation triple the price? The Presentation I have sitting on my desk went for all of $130 when I bought it… /daytripper (nonplussed!

and in what era was that?  The Pleistocene? Peter (who paid more for his in deflated Northern Pesos)

Response:

My folks gave me a Regal for Christmas about 15 years ago. Have never had a problem, still using it today. Mine is a little different than this newer model, (no swivel head) but the jaws are pretty much the same. Great vise! http://www.worleybuggerflyco.com/flytyingtools/Regal_Vises.htm Good luck, JRT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

[posted and mailed] [snip] So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

I have the Renzetti Travler (pedestal) and really like it. Paul

Response:

(I can be pretty abusive).  

Though, from what I’ve read here, you are mostly self-abusive. Kevin Wait, that doesn’t sound right…

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Don’t you mean Renzetti Traveler? At $325 the Presentation is approaching the left nut range. Paul

Response:

I would choose flyfishing over drinking, doing drugs, cheating on your spouse, or collecting beanie babies . . . but that’s just my opinion. Memphis Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

But still three times more than his highest-priced choice. Just slightly above your price range is the Thompson A Vise, at around $35- $40 at many fly shops. The advantage over all the vises Cabelas has on that page is a stellar reputation for being a very functional utilitarian vise that will last for years and years.  If anything on it breaks, its easily and cheaply replaceable, without buying a whole new vise. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

http://www.mossycreek.com/orvis_rotary.htm I would recommend the Orvis rotary.  I got the original of this, made by Danica while over in the UK.  Its not as pretty as a Renzetti, but its a vise that will be passed down and used by your great grand kids even after the most abusive use you can think of (I can be pretty abusive).  All this for only $80.  I’ve even gotten a couple of professional tiers to switch (Mike Martinek for one). — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 …2 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Believe it or not, I just selected the whole deal in Xnews, right clicked and selected "Edit URL", hit OK, and it took me right to the page. Xnews rocks! — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink.

Alright, let’s not get snippy A Renzetti Presentation would be excellent and won’t cost you your left nut… /daytripper

Response:

 http://www.nor-vise.com/norviseinfo.html Best ever. Mr.G.

Response:

[posted and mailed] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount =9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabela s%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2F Pod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

So what vise guys. Sorry I copied and pasted the llink. Bill

Response:

Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio

nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n

dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n

et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg

Gee, that link was easy to put back together!  Next time, try www.makeashorterlink.com http://makeashorterlink.com/?C30C24E62

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9& i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2 F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc

That has to be the most effed-up url ever posted here…

Response:

I think I have it narrowed down to these. I will have to have pedestal base. So when pricing I have just added it in. I like these over at: www.hookhackle.com STANDARD VISES AA vise left and Super II vise right A) AA Vise. Cam closing. Adjustable height. Ideal starter vise for beginners.Item No. 6AAVISE B) Super II Rotating Vise. C-clamp. Black finish. Lever action. Knob on side of vise allows full 360 degree rotation. Jaws will handle hooks in range of 4/0 to 22. Adjustable height and angle. This is a top quality vise and our favorite! Item No. 9408103 2 .00 PEDESTAL BASE Designed for the vises above, but can be used with any 3/8" stemmed vise. Over at: www.cabelas.com I like their vises, kind of leaning toward the Atlantic http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal- pod.jhtml;jsessio nid=DYSOZMKXN0VA0CWQNVECFFAK0BWUMIV0?id=0011423&navAction=push&navCount=9&i n dexId=cat20534&parentId=cat20534&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2F e n%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fpod- link.jhtml.2_A&_DAV=http%3A%2F%2Fa1460.g.akamai.n et%2Fv%2F1460%2F1339%2F6h%2Fwww.cabelas.com%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcontent%2FPod% 2 F01%2F14%2F23%2Fp011423ii01.jpg Please help me decide. I also like the Super 2 at hook and hackle Bill Mc — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

This past week I received in the mail a new book from Mark Jeffrey Volk, I believe it was his fourth book "Pages from a Mountain Journal" previously he had written three books known as the Winding Ridge Trilogy. His first, The Upland Way, hooked, if you will, me hard. He writes of the people, fish, and birds  found in Appalachians of PA, WV, and MD in a way that sometimes reminds me of Harry Middleton’s love of the Smokys.

Wayne — Just the other day I was told that the books "Homesick" which I guess is the third book of the Winding Ridge Trilogy and  "Pages from a Mountain Journal"  both include Smallmouth Bass.  I was wondering if the first two books in the Trilogy also included something on Smallmouth? Clyde Drury Books of the Black Bass. http://members.aol.com/BassBks/index.html

Response:

Most of the *regulars* know that I ‘ve gone from Atlanta to Chicago to now Dodge City Kansas since I first logged on to ROFF. What I thought was going to be a short term stint is now past two years and no real hope of moving on anytime soon. Work has been a pain due to changes and I’ve had to cancel two trips to the Juan. When i can find time to drive the 5 hours to Colorado, if only to fish a heavily pounded tailwater for the day, the weather turns to crap as it did this past weekend. I read of the gatherings I missed and long to hit some water, at some point soon, I will probably get up and drive the 350 miles just to fish for an hour or two and drive back here to the Sunflower State. "Home" is really Louisiana, but I’ve come to call the waters of the Appalachians my home. There you will find the most beautiful of nature’s creations, the Brookie. I long to fish for them again, but for now I must be content to read. Since January I’ve read books by Tapply, Leeson, Fulmer, Gaines, and re-read some favorites by Middleton, Lyons, Haig-Brown, Babb and Voelker (aka Traver). Enjoyed a couple of compilations and imagined the rivers as they fished them. This past week I received in the mail a new book from Mark Jeffrey Volk, I believe it was his fourth book "Pages from a Mountain Journal" previously he had written three books known as the Winding Ridge Trilogy. His first, The Upland Way, hooked, if you will, me hard. He writes of the people, fish, and birds  found in Appalachians of PA, WV, and MD in a way that sometimes reminds me of Harry Middleton’s love of the Smokys. This quote from the 1st chapter of "Pages" really hits home to what I miss, I just wanted to share it. "I love wild brookies; those incomparable, true originals in every sense in these Appalachian mountains. They’re an icon of the way things should be, rather than how they are, and remain a symbol of a mountain’s purity and grace. The next time you catch one, hold him in the water for just a moment longer before releasing him. There’s a masterpiece cradled in your hand; feel his flawless form and his wild strength, his instinctive struggle to return to that frigid world he is an inseparable part of."     quoted ver batim, by mark volk. Wayne

Response:

… This quote from the 1st chapter of "Pages" really hits home to what I miss, I just wanted to share it. "I love wild brookies; those incomparable, true originals in every sense in these Appalachian mountains. …

Sheesh. Sounds like that guy’s one of those "creationists" about whom Choc was cracking wise. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Oh bite me you cynical SOB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … This quote from the 1st chapter of "Pages" really hits home to what I miss, I just wanted to share it. "I love wild brookies; those incomparable, true originals in every sense in these Appalachian mountains. … Sheesh. Sounds like that guy’s one of those "creationists" about whom Choc was cracking wise. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

"I love wild brookies; those incomparable, true originals in every sense in these Appalachian mountains. They’re an icon of the way things should be, rather than how they are, and remain a symbol of a mountain’s purity and grace. The next time you catch one, hold him in the water for just a moment longer before releasing him. There’s a masterpiece cradled in your hand; feel his flawless form and his wild strength, his instinctive struggle to return to that frigid world he is an inseparable part of."    quoted ver batim, by mark volk. Wayne

        well, that’s pretty to read, in my view.  and all of us know that to get to where they live requires more than a little energy, sacrifice, and love.         your friend in the old north state         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Wayne Knight wrote… good stuff snipped.

God Wayne you’re making me cry. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

Wayne, ’nuff bs. you name the time buddy, stay at the house here, we’ll go chasin’ some of them jewels you love so much. –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of the *regulars* know that I ‘ve gone from Atlanta to Chicago to now Dodge City Kansas since I first logged on to ROFF. What I thought was going to be a short term stint is now past two years and no real hope of moving on anytime soon. Work has been a pain due to changes and I’ve had to cancel two trips to the Juan. When i can find time to drive the 5 hours to Colorado, if only to fish a heavily pounded tailwater for the day, the weather turns to crap as it did this past weekend. I read of the gatherings I missed and long to hit some water, at some point soon, I will probably get up and drive the 350 miles just to fish for an hour or two and drive back here to the Sunflower State. "Home" is really Louisiana, but I’ve come to call the waters of the Appalachians my home. There you will find the most beautiful of nature’s creations, the Brookie. I long to fish for them again, but for now I must be content to read. Since January I’ve read books by Tapply, Leeson, Fulmer, Gaines, and re-read some favorites by Middleton, Lyons, Haig-Brown, Babb and Voelker (aka Traver). Enjoyed a couple of compilations and imagined the rivers as they fished them. This past week I received in the mail a new book from Mark Jeffrey Volk, I believe it was his fourth book "Pages from a Mountain Journal" previously he had written three books known as the Winding Ridge Trilogy. His first, The Upland Way, hooked, if you will, me hard. He writes of the people, fish, and birds  found in Appalachians of PA, WV, and MD in a way that sometimes reminds me of Harry Middleton’s love of the Smokys. This quote from the 1st chapter of "Pages" really hits home to what I miss, I just wanted to share it. "I love wild brookies; those incomparable, true originals in every sense in these Appalachian mountains. They’re an icon of the way things should be, rather than how they are, and remain a symbol of a mountain’s purity and grace. The next time you catch one, hold him in the water for just a moment longer before releasing him. There’s a masterpiece cradled in your hand; feel his flawless form and his wild strength, his instinctive struggle to return to that frigid world he is an inseparable part of."     quoted ver batim, by mark volk. Wayne

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Question:

I know ‘zackly what you mean, Charlie. I spend too much time there also. The guy you referred to is "Mac" who is famous for ruining production rods and then listing them as "restored". His latest kick is plaid signature wraps. But then, there ARE still a few deals showing up daily. I snagged a Courtney Ryley Cooper SB/Doublebuilt for $71 last week and a good friend made off with an unidentified Ray Bergman/Dickerson for the ridiculous sum of $36 + shipping. Vigilance pays off sometimes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I feel for you and have noticed the same thing in the local equivilent, lots of cheap gear with unrealistic prices on them. On the other hand I recently put a scsi card up for auction at half its used value.I was abused for putting a "high" price on it. Damned if I was going to put a $4000 scsi controller (still in shrink wrap) on auction for 30 bucks. There are a hell of a lot of unscrupulous dealers out there and many people the law in the states regarding false claims when selling something. There must be something around to stop them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

 I haven’t worked for any sellers and I don’t think  I’m stupid (tho I did take up flyfishing after a fashion  this last year, so may that’s questionable…).  But I  don’t have any interest in planning my life around  eBay pumpkin times to buy Yet Another Thing  that I do not really need.  Whatever this thing that I  can’t live without is, it will inevitably pop up again,  either on eBay or somewhere else.

     Good advise, generally. I let a lot of desirable things go, just because I couldn’t be near the computer at the time of their closing (a man has to fish, you know). The point I tried to make is, if you bid twenty dollars with ten hours till closing, somebody is more likely to come along and outbid you, whereas the same bid right at closing is more likely to get the item. I don’t buy *anything* unless I get a good deal on it, and I’m not the only puter user in the world who recognizes a good deal.      I picked up an item last week that I really wanted, but I couldn’t be around the computer at the time of closing. The item (I’d never seen one like it before) had gone six days without a bid, but I figured other sharks (like me) were circling in the waters. With ten hours to go, I bid twice the opening price (and a third the real value) and left for the day, allowing the proxy bid to do it’s thing. I returned that evening to find I’d won the item for a price just fifty cents under my max. A review of the bid history revealed a bidding war had erupted in the final six minutes of the auction, and I was literally saved by the bell. If I hadn’t won it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, because it’s only stuff.

Response:

 That’s the best advice re eBay.  Further, I would  make that "max you’re willing to pay" at least 20  to 25 percent less than I would be willing to pay  through another venue.  If you get the item and it is  what was advertised, you’ve done well.  If you don’t  get it it’s no big deal, invariably another one will  come along.

Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  If you use common sense and check for bad feedback, it helps.  Paying with PayPal or other credit card service also helps protect you.  If you’re not buying something pretty rare, and you’re not in a big rush, you can get respectable deals.

Response:

 "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.

    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

It’s a numbers game.  Play enough and you will get burned.  I wuz 3 out of 100 + and no bamboo rods! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Jeff Connelly" Right.  There is a little more risk involved because the people aren’t established businesses.  98% of mine have been fine.  That’s in the same ballpark as my experiences:  I’ve had 2 not very good transactions out of a  total of about 70.    I have been burned three times out of 100+ transactions. All three of the bad deals were bamboo fly rods; I’ve never gotten a bum deal on other types of merchandise.

Response:

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.

Oh, one more thing regarding feedback.  Feedback is only slightly useful because it’s 2-way feedback, and after a number of years I’ve come to the conclusion feedback should be sent to the seller only.  Otherwise, it’s just a game where people know they will usually get negative feedback in retaliation for giving negative feedback.  Therefore, I believe most people don’t give negative feedback ever.  Many sellers have much less negative feedback than they deserve.  One way feedback, such as on Amazon, seems to work much better.  Moral of the story: if an eBay seller has much negative feedback, you should avoid him.  If he doesn’t – well, you really don’t know much.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay. I’ve been burned more than once by bamboo swindlers, lately the crooks seem to outnumber the honest dealers. I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon. A lot of this crap still goes on, beware of it. When you see so many low end Montagues selling for $85.00 with 4 or 5 total bids, beware of the short tipped Sunbeam that has been bid up to $175.00 by fifteen bidders. Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

Response:

I just noticed a Heddon#17 that opened at $75.00 more than it is worth, the first (and only) bidder made an opening bid of $150.00 more than the opening price.

   Sorry to add to my own thread, but I just noticed this Heddon has a short tip, so it’s opening price was about $200.00 more than it is worth. It has now been "bid up" to approximately 3X what it’s really worth.    And fwiw, last week I purchased a higher grade Heddon, in better shape. I paid $200.00 + shipping to a reputable dealer from Michigan.

Response:

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

As long as you sell (almost) as much as you buy, you’ll be alright What’s that?  You end up buying a lot more than you sell??  :-) I recently read about some guys who were indicted for bidding up their own items (utilizing other user names) to create a false sense of interest, and I suspect that is what’s happening with the Heddon.

Between me and especially my brother we’ve seen a lot of eBay action, and this and much more does go on.  It’s virtually unstoppable in the long run. There’s really only one way around it for the buyer, and it’s quite simple… Don’t be fooled into thinking something is valuable, just because there appears to be a lot of interest in the item.

…know what the value of the item you want to buy.  This is obviously true no matter what you buy – it’s not an eBay thing.  Well, maybe I oversimplified, because in some cases where an item is very rare, it’s the other bids that help you determine its value.  eBay is a good value-meter for things that are not unique, and that a good number of transactions occur for.  For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?  Proxy bid the max that you’re willing to pay.  There is one thing that sellers can get away with though that’s unethical.  Use a fake name to raise the bid if you think a buyer has proxy-bidded higher than his actual bid.  If you go over it by mistake, just retract the bid.  That way you have a way of knowing how high a person will go, and make him go there.  I don’t think eBay would let you get away with it more than a few times though.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay.

The best defense I’ve found against counterfeits, unethical dealers, etc. is a good credit card company.  If you have a good one, they’ll back you up when you refuse payment on an item.  One of the problems with eBay transactions is that there tends to be too many places to lay blame, so everyone points somewhere else.  eBay points to the seller or to a mediator (which is not free), the seller of course won’t help, the payment company (PayPal or whoever) points to the FBI, the FBI isn’t going to take it seriously, or the payment company points to your credit card company.  If your credit card company is good, the buck stops there and you’re covered. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

Response:

There was one about a month back that I got a kick out of. One of the ebay regulars that refinishes rods with glossy new varnish had a Granger rod – I think. He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me. Paul

    As an unapologetic gear whore, I spend way too much time (and money) on e-bay.

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand

people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid".  So freakin’ what?<   I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

Response:

I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed.

In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was watching a flyrod on Ebay.  Someone put a bid in with less than a minute to go, only to be aced out by another bidder who got in with 9 seconds left.  Talk about "the last second."  I imagine that next to the last bidder was pissed. In the few instances I’ve been a participant in these last second bids, it’s been fun to watch.   For my part, I’ve never really regretted being beat at the last second.   I bid what I’m willing to pay.   If somebody’s willing to pay more, good for them.   I’ve never felt bad about losing one that way. Joe F.

joe, the animosity generated plum evades me. back in my golden years when i travelled to quite a few thousand auctions buying antiques, libraries, estates and such, i set my limit….. and since i was pretty much a foolish bidder, if some fool outbid me…. well, congrats, nicely done. all i can say is i never regretted winning and i never regretted nor angered over losing. i take that back…. my only regret is that i didn’t go to 27k on a full bronze figurine at an auction outside of daytona beach one evening….  i believe the fool that out-bid me would have dropped out and i would today be enjoying the finest deco sculpture i’ve ever seen… enjoying daily cuz i never would have sold her…. course, marie probably would have divorced my silly ass. ah well…that’s life…. you win some and you lose some. anyway…. the point being…. at auction, and at ebay, thars a hammer. when it slams down… the *last* bidder wins….tain’t much use losing sleep over it…imho. –walt

Response:

For the life of me though, I can’t understand people that bitch and moan because they got outbid "at the last second".  They complain about "poachers", who wait until the auction is a minute from ending, and swoop in with their "guerilla bid.

     Groundless bitching it is. The earlier a bidding war gets started, the higher the price inevitably goes. You gotta play by the home court rules, and use all the legal tactics. When I see something I *really* want, I get involved in the last couple of minutes. Anybody who hasn’t figured this out doesn’t deserve to win the bid. And anybody who actively bids an item with days to go is either stupid or working for the seller. I think internet buying and selling is the greatest thing since the electric guitar, but buying rare or unique items without seeing them in person is tough.

    Agree

Response:

He said it was a Granger rod, however, He replaced the grip with one that didn’t match the original, replaced the reeelseat with an antique aluminum one, replaced the ferrules and guides. He even removed the granger stamp from the rod and wrote Granger on it. Sounds just a little suspicious to me.

Did it have a number on it, by any chance? {;-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

<snip    Always insist on a return privilege after you’ve won a bid. I’ve been burned three times this year by swindlers who blatantly lied about the product, the worst case being the guy who’s 8′ Redwing arrived as a no-name Japanese rod, worth $35.00.

Good idea and good advice, but not always permitted under eBays rules.  If a seller refuses your return privilege request/demand after you’ve won, he can legitimately post negative feedback about you and eBay would stand behind the seller every time.  If you want a return privilege, send the seller an e-mail BEFORE you bid, unless there is some sort of return policy/guarantee in the items description and/or auction terms.  It doesn’t take much negative feedback to get people really turned off about dealing with you.    There are several guys who sell a lot of counterfeit rods on e-bay. One guy out of central Oregon is pretty good, and it takes an expert’s eye to detect some of the working class rods he’s turned into high dollar collectibles. There’s another guy here in Colorado who takes crappy rods, changes the reel seat, and slaps on a coat of glossy varnish. This guy is also in the habit of turning 9′ buggy whips into 7 1/2′ "highly collectibles, rods like this sell for over $1000.00". Do you have any idea what it does to a rod’s castability (a cheap rod that wasn’t good to start with) when you cut 6" out of each section? It pains me just to look at some of his images, which usually depict a way too small ferrule crammed onto a crudely whittled-down section.

Wow.  I haven’t been shopping for bamboo rods, but what you describe here is downright amazing.  Good deal for the seller, I guess.    With that said, there are some occasional deals to be had. I often skip over the ads that don’t even mention the maker’s name in the header, 99% of them are junkers. Last fall, I bought a mint Edwards salmon rod, the seller didn’t know what it was, and I wasn’t sure until it arrived; I paid less than $200.00 for it. I had no use for a bamboo salmon rod, so I recently swapped it for a 7 1/2′ Granger. So, with a little bit of luck, I’ve come out about even on e-bay.

I’ve done more selling than buying on eBay, and none of it fishing-related. As a seller, I can honestly state that I have never ripped anybody off.  One guy did buy an old clone PC from me and he paid more for shipping than he did for the PC.  He may have been a fool, but I didn’t rip him off. As a buyer, my experience is much more limited.  Initially, I wasn’t playing like an eBay vulture–so I always got outbid.  More recently I bought some books and got a tremendous deal.  Six hardback novels from the 70s for less than $20, shipping and all, all in excellent condition. With any sort of ‘collectible’ item, or anything of significant value–say over $100–I’d be careful.  There are LOTS of eBay scam artists out there, and plenty of them never get caught.  A slight misrepresentation can result in a practically valueless item being bid up as if it were the real thing. Caveat Emptor never rang more true than the day eBay arrived. Tom G eBay vulture

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Question:

Lets hope he doesn’t also "teach" her how to wade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Yeah that’s a good point , she truly does not like swimming. Lets hope he doesn’t also "teach" her how to wade. That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Regards, Jeff

Response:

He has to save you some fish. The rapid is no-kill on brook trout. Why do you think there are such big fish. Also at the time we’ll be there it’s no-kill on salmon also. Paul

i guess that means t-bone ain’t coming. waldo

Response:

He has to save you some fish. The rapid is no-kill on brook trout. Why do you think there are such big fish. Also at the time we’ll be there it’s no-kill on salmon also. Paul

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt

[snip]

Response:

Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far.

That is what’s so great about Maine! — — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Willi Loehman writes: Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters?  

Yes.  But the Rapid is a large stream with very swift water.  It’s elevation drop is very steep, and because it is a tailwater, it is cold.  It has plenty of food, so the brookies thrive in its waters.  Five years ago you rarely saw a fish bigger than 15 inches, but since C and R has been  enforced, 3 pounders are common.   On the smaller streams in NH, VT and ME, you will see native brookies that are stunted for the reasons you state.  Pond brookies tend to be a little bigger than the small stream brookies.  I fished ponds in the Allagash Wilderness Area of Maine last year and caught many 15 – 18 inch fish.  An interesting aside:  I am used to the trout coming up directly under the fly for the "take".  The pond brookies that I fished for  came out of the water and took the fly on the way down.  Screws up your timing, that’s for sure!  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

 For bigger brookies try fishing near the large boulder that is on the south side of Echo lake on Mt Evans.12-15 inch is not uncommon. —  Don Thompson  Zoomie(BushBug)  ACA#3460  TLCB#335  Any Time, Any Place  Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far. I assume the river you’re describing is a large one?  In the Rockies, for the most part, Brookies are confined to the smaller headwater streams.  Except for those streams that have beaver ponds on them, these stream Brookies are very small. Many of the streams and some of the ponds and lakes, tend to be over populated. The result is that the fish are stunted. Often 5 and 6 inch large headed fish are sexually mature and may be the largest that the stream produces. This is PARTLY due to the size and fertility of the streams. However, comparable streams with Browns, Rainbows or Cutts tend to have larger fish. Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters? Willi

Response:

Great report. I’d love to get into some big brookies like that but Maine is SO far. I assume the river you’re describing is a large one?  In the Rockies, for the most part, Brookies are confined to the smaller headwater streams.  Except for those streams that have beaver ponds on them, these stream Brookies are very small. Many of the streams and some of the ponds and lakes, tend to be over populated. The result is that the fish are stunted. Often 5 and 6 inch large headed fish are sexually mature and may be the largest that the stream produces. This is PARTLY due to the size and fertility of the streams. However, comparable streams with Browns, Rainbows or Cutts tend to have larger fish. Do you see this over population and stunting in your smaller waters?   Willi

Response:

when the revolution comes, when all us peons will extract our revenge.  

You can have all the revenge you want; meanwhile I’ll be collecting their stuff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt

You took the words right off my screen.  The old bugger will have ‘em all before we get there. Peter good luck in Labrador

Response:

That’s exciting Dave – I hope you can guide my girlfriend into a couple of those fish in September!  Looking forward to it…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch

        great report, laplac!         your indulgence in the paradise that you described, together with the wretched excess of the labrador trip, *plus* having that angel to come home to has placed you soundly at the side of stephen barnes when the revolution comes, when all us peons will extract our revenge.  if i were you, i’d practice my blindfolded cigarette smoking technique.         wayno, long time student of madame defarge

Response:

Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch before "suiting up" and heading to the river. Jeff was using an Orvis Rocky Mountain 6 weight, and Brian a Courtland 8 1/2 ft. 5 weight. I settled for my 4 weight Sage 9 footer. Instead of going down river, we settled on the dam and immediately were into some nice salmon (15+ inches). Neither Jeff nor Brian have a landing net, so they learned a trick or two on safely releasing big fish. Christmas is coming….. Tuesday morning we headed down-river and had the place to ourselves. Two locals  walked in about 9, but fished downstream from us. Both boys caught and landed 18 and 19 inch brookies on a size 20 bubble emerger. I stood by and took the fish off the hook and safely released them. What marvelous examples of brook trout! We fished the wing dam and first and second current all day and never caught a big salmon. Most were in the 10 – 12 inch range. Wednesday we again went down-river, and again, both boys got into some big trout using the same emerger. We discovered a new "holding area" for the brookies, fished it steadily for a couple of hours, but without success. These fish were difficult to catch. I watched a "regular" to the river, a terrific fly fisherman  who lives nearby and walks in a couple of days a week. He tried every trick and  fly he knew, but failed in getting even a small one to take his lure. We finished the day by going to the dam after lunch. I landed a 22 inch salmon  that broke the water 8 times — a guest at the camp counted, I didn’t. It was a terrific afternoon with all three of us landing several salmon in the 16+ range. Thursday morning, back to the wing dam and the large brookies. I took a 20 incher and Brian an 18 incher. Jeff wasn’t feeling well and spent the morning in bed. He did, however, go to the dam with us after lunch. I found my way out to my favorite "perch" and took about 20 salmon from 12 – 20 inches, all on a cream colored caddis worm, size  16 and 18 fished slow and deep. About 5 o’clock, I went after brookies that I knew were holed-up in the white bubbly water at the bottom of one of the dam shutes. The boys had heavily fished this spot on previous days, but were unsuccessful in raising any of the behemouths that live in the bubbles. It would have been easier if I had a ten foot rod, because I really couldn’t reach the current and bubbled water with my 9 footer. I wasn’t casting — dabbing would be a more accurate description. To get closer, I got in the water — mistake #1!  I had a senior moment when I slipped and went head first into a pool about 6 feet deep. Well, now that I was completely soaked, there was no sense in "taking it easy". I managed to get upon the rock I wanted, and on my second "dab" a giant, monster of a brookie took the emerger. He took two laps of the small pool and headed into the fast water. And I imagine he is still there, laughing at me. I fished for another 20  minutes before I attempted to leave. Not thinking, I had my second senior moment of the day, and went into the same pool backwards. Does Orvis sell water-wings? Friday was slow, both down-river and at the dam. Very few fish were being taken.  All three of us did manage to get our brookies on the wing-dam, but they were small ones – about 14 inches. We went to what I have named the "V" current, and stood within five feet of the largest brookie I have ever seen in these waters. It was at least 24 inches long. And it was feeding — the boys watched it for several minutes as it moved a couple of inches one way and then the other to pick up morsels of  food floating down stream. I was using the cream colored caddis in a size 18, hoping that small was what he wanted. I set the hook on a take, and saw that it was a six inch chub. I didn’t bother to put it on the reel — I wanted him off as quickly as possible, so I stripped in the few feet of line, only to have it ripped from my hand. Jeff yelled that the big brookie had taken my chub. He could see the head of the chub sticking out of the trout’s mouth. Off he went, ripping off line like there wasn’t any drag. The "fight" lasted about 30 seconds before he let go.  I landed the small chub and it had teeth marks on both sides right behind its gills. There was some blood. The same thing happened to Brian within an hour — he wanted to "fish" with the fish. An ethics conversation followed. I have always fished this river using 75% dries and 25% nymphs.  However, this week it was almost exclusively nymphs.  I think I caught two salmon on traditional dry fly patterns.  Although there were several hatches during the week, the fish were not actively rising to them.  I watched several emerging caddis struggling to get airborne, safely drifting over water that I knew contained both trout and salmon.  Friends in camp, traditionally dry fly fishermen, were at a loss as to what to do.  I convinced a couple to try nymphing and gave them a couple of successful patterns.  Voila!  They caught fish.   Emergers and nymphs — the only way to travel!  Don’t leave home without them. It was a great week of fishing — not because I caught some wonderful fish on flies that I tied ,but because I saw my grandsons have such a memorable time catching big brookies and salmon, nymphing like their grandpa showed them. It doesn’t get much better than that. Jeff and I fly out of Logan next Thursday for 8 days in Labrador.  And it is all dry fly fishing, including a mouse pattern for *really* big brookies.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

What a great report Dave. Good luck in Labrador, you lucky son-of-a-gun. I can’t wait to join ya up there in Sept…. save us some fish! Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Monday, June 20. Jeff, Brian and I arrived at Lakewood and had a wonderful lunch before "suiting up" and heading to the river. Jeff was using an Orvis Rocky Mountain 6 weight, and Brian a Courtland 8 1/2 ft. 5 weight. I settled for my 4 weight Sage 9 footer. Instead of going down river, we settled on the dam and immediately were into some nice salmon (15+ inches). Neither Jeff nor Brian have a landing net, so they learned a trick or two on safely releasing big fish. Christmas is coming….. Tuesday morning we headed down-river and had the place to ourselves. Two locals  walked in about 9, but fished downstream from us. Both boys caught and landed 18 and 19 inch brookies on a size 20 bubble emerger. I stood by and took the fish off the hook and safely released them. What marvelous examples of brook trout! We fished the wing dam and first and second current all day and never caught a big salmon. Most were in the 10 – 12 inch range. Wednesday we again went down-river, and again, both boys got into some big trout using the same emerger. We discovered a new "holding area" for the brookies, fished it steadily for a couple of hours, but without success. These fish were difficult to catch. I watched a "regular" to the river, a terrific fly fisherman  who lives nearby and walks in a couple of days a week. He tried every trick and  fly he knew, but failed in getting even a small one to take his lure. We finished the day by going to the dam after lunch. I landed a 22 inch salmon  that broke the water 8 times — a guest at the camp counted, I didn’t. It was a terrific afternoon with all three of us landing several salmon in the 16+ range. Thursday morning, back to the wing dam and the large brookies. I took a 20 incher and Brian an 18 incher. Jeff wasn’t feeling well and spent the morning in bed. He did, however, go to the dam with us after lunch. I found my way out to my favorite "perch" and took about 20 salmon from 12 – 20 inches, all on a cream colored caddis worm, size  16 and 18 fished slow and deep. About 5 o’clock, I went after brookies that I knew were holed-up in the white bubbly water at the bottom of one of the dam shutes. The boys had heavily fished this spot on previous days, but were unsuccessful in raising any of the behemouths that live in the bubbles. It would have been easier if I had a ten foot rod, because I really couldn’t reach the current and bubbled water with my 9 footer. I wasn’t casting — dabbing would be a more accurate description. To get closer, I got in the water — mistake #1!  I had a senior moment when I slipped and went head first into a pool about 6 feet deep. Well, now that I was completely soaked, there was no sense in "taking it easy". I managed to get upon the rock I wanted, and on my second "dab" a giant, monster of a brookie took the emerger. He took two laps of the small pool and headed into the fast water. And I imagine he is still there, laughing at me. I fished for another 20  minutes before I attempted to leave. Not thinking, I had my second senior moment of the day, and went into the same pool backwards. Does Orvis sell water-wings? Friday was slow, both down-river and at the dam. Very few fish were being taken.  All three of us did manage to get our brookies on the wing-dam, but they were small ones – about 14 inches. We went to what I have named the "V" current, and stood within five feet of the largest brookie I have ever seen in these waters. It was at least 24 inches long. And it was feeding — the boys watched it for several minutes as it moved a couple of inches one way and then the other to pick up morsels of  food floating down stream. I was using the cream colored caddis in a size 18, hoping that small was what he wanted. I set the hook on a take, and saw that it was a six inch chub. I didn’t bother to put it on the reel — I wanted him off as quickly as possible, so I stripped in the few feet of line, only to have it ripped from my hand. Jeff yelled that the big brookie had taken my chub. He could see the head of the chub sticking out of the trout’s mouth. Off he went, ripping off line like there wasn’t any drag. The "fight" lasted about 30 seconds before he let go.  I landed the small chub and it had teeth marks on both sides right behind its gills. There was some blood. The same thing happened to Brian within an hour — he wanted to "fish" with the fish. An ethics conversation followed. I have always fished this river using 75% dries and 25% nymphs.  However, this week it was almost exclusively nymphs.  I think I caught two salmon on traditional dry fly patterns.  Although there were several hatches during the week, the fish were not actively rising to them.  I watched several emerging caddis struggling to get airborne, safely drifting over water that I knew contained both trout and salmon.  Friends in camp, traditionally dry fly fishermen, were at a loss as to what to do.  I convinced a couple to try nymphing and gave them a couple of successful patterns.  Voila!  They caught fish.   Emergers and nymphs — the only way to travel!  Don’t leave home without them. It was a great week of fishing — not because I caught some wonderful fish on flies that I tied ,but because I saw my grandsons have such a memorable time catching big brookies and salmon, nymphing like their grandpa showed them. It doesn’t get much better than that. Jeff and I fly out of Logan next Thursday for 8 days in Labrador.  And it is all dry fly fishing, including a mouse pattern for *really* big brookies.  <g Dave LaCourse

– Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

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Question:

Mike, you’re probably gonna catch some flack about fishing with rakes ;^) But glad to hear you found the camera. fwiw: Current upper-end Kodak models include the DC265 (essentially a firmware-upgraded DC260), DC280, and DC290, in order of features & price. Do you think there’s any chance that the camera might actually function after a thorough drying? If you think it’s a write-off, you might as well see if you can take it apart, rinse the whole thing in distilled water, then let it dry for as long as it takes, before reassembling it and giving it try. /daytripper

Hey Tripper.. I am gonna see if I can wangle a 290. I wanna stay with the same chassis as I have accessories for it. I dunno. I was actually thinking of sending it to KODAK to see what they could do with it… If they can or won’t then I might just try that! Back to the Pond tommorrow! This time just to fish! I got six bows today and I lost all of the Strymphs I was using to just tied another four for tommorrow! Cheers! — Michael Era

Question:

I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest. It would consist of a plastic mold shaped like a fly reel or a trout head. It would not be too large. I would mount a rare earth magnet from behind in the center. The plastic would have nice detail. The magnet would not be so large or weigh a ton, but will hold a bunch of flies without falling off. Retail for $5.99 – Any thoughts? — Rick Maston RM Specialties http://www.canoeoutriggers.com

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Hey that’s a great idea. The one I bought a Orvis a few years ago works great. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest. It would consist of a plastic mold shaped like a fly reel or a trout head. It would not be too large. I would mount a rare earth magnet from behind in the center. The plastic would have nice detail. The magnet would not be so large or weigh a ton, but will hold a bunch of flies without falling off. Retail for $5.99 – Any thoughts? — Rick Maston RM Specialties http://www.canoeoutriggers.com

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Missed the original post. Have wondered whether magnetized hooks (as a result of using a "tach-it" type fly box) might have a weak field that fishies might not like.

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I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest.  - Any thoughts?

I use magnets to hold hooks and various other thing at my tying bench but would never use them on the stream.  It’s hard enough to navigate through brush or even to make routine casts without losing flies (even with barbed hooks) from a normal drying patch.  I can’t imagine a magnet strong enough to keep flies from evaporating from one’s vest.

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I use magnets to hold hooks and various other thing at my tying bench but would never use them on the stream.  It’s hard enough to navigate through brush or even to make routine casts without losing flies (even with barbed hooks) from a normal drying patch.  I can’t imagine a magnet strong enough to keep flies from evaporating from one’s vest.

I have this problem with barbless hooks (where I’m required to use them). A while back, Mike Connor suggested a perforated (i.e., ventilated) 35mm film capsule for temporary storage of ‘used’ flies. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this problem with barbless hooks (where I’m required to use them). A while back, Mike Connor suggested a perforated (i.e., ventilated) 35mm film capsule for temporary storage of ‘used’ flies. Tony Deacon

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Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot.

And the rest! Been using them for all sorts of things for years, but Mike’s suggestion was new to me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Try using the clear ones as dubbing containers. A 1/2" hole ( to taste, and to suit dubbing ) drilled in the base, fill the capsule, cap it, stand it on its cap in a suitable tray.  Great for all sorts of dubbing materials. With a smaller hole, wool,  floss, chenille, etc, may also be stored very well. Poke one end of the stuff through the hole, fill the container with the remainder, cap it, and place it in your tray. I prefer the black ones as "drying boxes", they heat up almost as well as UPS trucks it seems !  A small hole drilled in the side makes them excellent wire dispensers as well, saves horrible great tangles of fine brass wire on the bench !  If you use a few sewing spools for fine tippet material, you can get four or five of these in a container, drill small holes at the relevant spots, bingo, a super tippet dispenser, pack a little cotton wool in the container to keep the spools from jiggling about.  If you need a bigger one for larger spools, a short length of plastic drainpipe from your local DIY market works even better. You can buy the caps there as well. TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot. And the rest! Been using them for all sorts of things for years, but Mike’s suggestion was new to me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

You’d better save up those film capsules while you can. In a few years everything will be digital and you’ll have a hard time even finding 35mm film. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing.

I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up. Joe F.

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Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up.

What is the era and background?  What does that mean? Vern

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Joe,    I think this was a carry over from the days when they were made of metal, black or red plastic and you couldn’t tell if there was anything in them unless you opened them or shook them.  The younger generation that have only seen the ones made of translucent plastic probably won’t have that affliction. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up. Joe F.

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Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up.

Don’t Bogart that film my friend, pass it over to me!

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What is the era and background?  What does that mean?

I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

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… From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s …

From a somewhat younger perspective, I know peers from the mid ’70’s that also automatically do the "canister shake test". — Ken Fortenberry- Never touched the stuff either

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the era and background?  What does that mean? I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

 And of course Joe, those of us that, from time to time, had such containers in our possesion, never, at any time, inhaled!!  No- not ever!!- unless faced with those occasional medical emergencies. Jim Mc

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Now *that’s* a funny .sig!! –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From a somewhat younger perspective, I know peers from the mid ’70’s that also automatically do the "canister shake test". — Ken Fortenberry- Never touched the stuff either

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Joe,   I think this was a carry over from the days when they were made of metal, black or red plastic and you couldn’t tell if there was anything in them unless you opened them or shook them.  The younger generation that have only seen the ones made of translucent plastic probably won’t have that affliction.

Today’s are translucent?  The ones I use are made of black plastic. I’ll admit I’ve never seen one made of red plastic though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I  drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin  current slides away, but eternity remains."    - H.D. Thoreau

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Today’s are translucent?

Yes, Fuji film comes in a translucent container.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the era and background?  What does that mean? I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

I have a story about that. Many years ago, in my hippie days, a friend and I were visiting Glacier Park and we decided to drive up to the Canadian park. When we reached the Canadian border we were appalled when the border guard asked us to open the glove compartment. Our stash wasn’t in there, but it easily could have been. Shaken by this experience, we decided not to carry any controlled substances back to the US. We rolled an enormous doobie and tossed the rest out. (This was when decent stuff was relatively cheap.) We rolled up to the US border station with smoke literally billowing out of the car windows. The border guard sized us up and decided to inspect the entire contents of our car. Dazed and confused, we unloaded about a ton of camping junk from the trunk, in front of a Boy Scout troop that was probably working on their law enforcement merit badges. He went through every pocket of each pack, and even looked under the spare tire. After finding nothing incriminating in the trunk, the immigration dude started inspecting the passenger compartment. He went right for the area under the driver’s seat, pulled out a paper bag full of plastic 35mm film canisters, and asked sarcastically, "Take a lot of pictures, do you boys?" "Yes, sir!", we smirked. He opened the canisters and found … exposed film. I kept it there to keep it out of the sun. He sent us on our way. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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< Never touched the stuff either Yeah, yeah …..and even if you did, you didn’t inhale. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Don’t Bogart that film my friend, pass it over to me!

Roooooolllll another one, just like the other one. TL, TD

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Never touched the stuff either Yeah, yeah …..and even if you did, you didn’t inhale.

And even if he did inhale, he didn’t *really* enjoy it.

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Today’s are translucent? Yes, Fuji film comes in a translucent container.

That explains it, I buy Kodak.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I  drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin  current slides away, but eternity remains."    - H.D. Thoreau

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Sounds like you’re a shoo-in if you ever decide to run for public office. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a story about that. [story about an enormous doobie deleted]

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Question:

Tom , My friend your singing to The Choir .   Harry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :  #17-Outlaw all types of fishing in any of the river so reclamied. : After all it’s about the fish …right? You bet, Harry. I’m with you on that one. Rather than proposing to make it pure C+R, why not have a 1-weekend season? Hunting seems to work rather well like that. If the fish can handle pure C+R, they can handle some harvest. Why bias the policy against the vast majority of fishermen who like to keep some fish? : : 15.) Bill nations with an exorbitant military service fee for resolving their : wars with our military. This huge windfall of trillions of dollars would fund : the government. clean up the environment/save the wild fish and lower our : taxes. Should this be taken as "I’m not willing to pay for it myself"? Of course, sending a bill doesn’t mean you actually collect money. Do you *really* think we’d reap a "windfall"? No, if they have the money, rather than pay us, they’d keep that money and raise their own army. Then we’d be back to square one. It is in our own interest for these nations to not keep large standing armies. That’s what gives us the title "superpower". If a country had the money to build a strong military, it probably would not need US aid to protect itself from other nations. For example, England would not need US intervention in the foreseeable future, but Kosovo will. Meanwhile, the US spent over a billion dollars on Kosovo and we never see that money again. The US will end up fighting over there again without compensation because of Milosevic or some other tyrant and we will spend billions of dollars to try to solve a problem that will never be solved without 50 or more years of commitment. As far as I am concerned, the US environmental problems are more important than Kosovo. Congress whines "a Billion dollars has been spent on the salmon in the last 20 years….", but is a happy camper whenever we blow billions of dollars in a few weeks to try to rectify a problem that has existed for 1000’s of years in the false hope that we can make things better in a month of bombing when the Serbs and Kosovars have been intolerant of each other for hundreds, if not thousands of years. A few years of peacekeeping will not make things better and the US will spend more on Kosovo, a place more than 3000 miles away from America than it will on fixing our environmental problems in the next few years. When was Kosovo a part of the US? Is it the 51st state? It is wrong for the government to spend more money on Kosovo than it does for many states. I bet the people of Wyoming are pleased that the citizens of Kosovo get more Wyoming taxpayer dollars than the people of Wyoming. If Kosovo wants our help, they better pay their share of the taxes. Whenever Americans need improvements or protection, Americans pay their government for those services. Why should another nation who uses our Governement to solve their problems be absolved from paying for the services that they used? Anyways, the *real* question is how much are *you* willing to have *your* taxes increase to fund all of your points?  If you are not willing to pay for it yourself, then it’s all just hot air. no, I am willing to pay my taxes even with an increase, but the government should be efficient with the money it collects from taxpayers. It is not right for the government to spend billions of dollars on the problems of other nations while we have so many problems at home to solve. If the government is going to spend money on other nations, the government should demand payment for services rendered. I pay to fish by buying a license and that money is used to manage fisheries. My payment pays for the management services provided by my state. Why should the military be any different? If a country has a problem that has to be resolved by the military and they ask for our help, that US military aid should be paid for by the country that is asking for our help. What’s wrong with paying for services delivered? It’s ridiculous to let our tax dollars be spent without demanding compensation for what has been done. Spend the money on the salmon/steelhead, forests, waterways, educational system, infrastructure and technology instead of throwing money into a fire. Tom JonCook.

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Are there any other rivers in the lower 48 states that a summer Steelhead will take a fly on the surface?   I’ve had many days of ten fish on the Deschutes river in Oregon skating fly’s on the surface for Steelhead.  Wonder why they take a fly on the surface on the Deschutes, and not on other rivers? — Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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At the right time and place they’ll take a dry on any water.

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I believe wild fish come to the surface more readily than planted fish. I know that Bill McMillan swears by surface fishing for steal head in his book Dry Line Fishing For Pacific Steelhead.

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I believe wild fish come to the surface more readily than planted fish. I know that Bill McMillan swears by surface fishing for steal head in his book Dry Line Fishing For Pacific Steelhead.

Hi All, There are two ways to dry fly fish for steelhead. Waking or skating dry flies and dead drifting dry flies. We met an old English angler on the Bulkley River in B.C. who said that the only tasteful way was to dead drift dries. I think wild fish are preferable. Sun off the water and 60 degree water temperater also can help. You are looking for water that is less than 10 feet deep, moving at a medium speed and with a pretty smooth surface. Maybe late September, early October? There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found.

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There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found.

Why do you think that is, Bill? I mean, why are there fewer steelhead than ever? — something bogus to avoid spam)

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says… There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found. Why do you think that is, Bill? I mean, why are there fewer steelhead than ever?

Excessive commercial fishing pressure, improperly designed dams, water pollution, destruction of habitat and improperly managed sport fisheries….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

If you catch enough steelhead, the nonsense about a difference between hatchery and wild fish becomes obvious.  I have always found steelhead come up for dries best in the tail of a pool, usually on a side.  Probably just less water overhead and that they usually are found in this area at the start and end of the day which probably means they have not been disturbed for some time.  If you spot a fish in such a location, a little skate when the fly is about 2 foot above the fish’s lie helps. Fred – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe wild fish come to the surface more readily than planted fish. I know that Bill McMillan swears by surface fishing for steal head in his book Dry Line Fishing For Pacific Steelhead.

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There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found. Why do you think that is, Bill? I mean, why are there fewer steelhead than ever? — something bogus to avoid spam)

I started fishing steelhead in the 60s in northern California. It was still pretty good fishing then, but the older guys really saw it in it’s ‘hay days’. I have fished with an old group of anglers that fished for them heavily from the end of W W II till just recently. Mostly, they are too old to wade and secondly in the last 10 years they have lost interest. We still have a pretty strong younger group that travel up and down the northwest coast of North America. I have listened to them tell the stories of fishing 50 years ago on the great un-damed rivers of North America. The mighty Russian, Eel, Trinity, Klamath, Rogue, Umpqua and on up through Oregon, Washington and the great rivers of British Columbia. It is a crime what we let happen to our great rivers. We mostly wipped out the wild steelhead in the 1900s. Bad logging, too many dams, de-watering and agriculture have lead to the loss of habitate for the might ‘Iron Head’. Commercial netting up north in BC is to blame also. If they could just start working on some of the good rivers that are left we could save some wild steelhead stocks. I have been thinking about this for the last 10 years. Take a few rivers and turn them back to wild rivers with no hatchery fish. Close them for 10 years and build back up a good population. No logging on the drainage. No dams. No more roads. Steelhead should all be wild and all be catch and release. If you have caught wild steelhead on a fly rod with a floating line and dry or unweighted steelhead fly, you can understand this kind of thinking. Hell, if you caught a wild steelhead on any kind of tackle you would understand. Rather than complain all the time, we should try to save what is left.

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found. Why do you think that is, Bill? I mean, why are there fewer steelhead than ever? — something bogus to avoid spam) I started fishing steelhead in the 60s in northern California. It was still pretty good fishing then, but the older guys really saw it in it’s ‘hay days’. I have fished with an old group of anglers that fished for them heavily from the end of W W II till just recently. Mostly, they are too old to wade and secondly in the last 10 years they have lost interest. We still have a pretty strong younger group that travel up and down the northwest coast of North America. I have listened to them tell the stories of fishing 50 years ago on the great un-damed rivers of North America. The mighty Russian, Eel, Trinity, Klamath, Rogue, Umpqua and on up through Oregon, Washington and the great rivers of British Columbia. It is a crime what we let happen to our great rivers. We mostly wipped out the wild steelhead in the 1900s. Bad logging, too many dams, de-watering and agriculture have lead to the loss of habitate for the might ‘Iron Head’. Commercial netting up north in BC is to blame also. If they could just start working on some of the good rivers that are left we could save some wild steelhead stocks. I have been thinking about this for the last 10 years. Take a few rivers and turn them back to wild rivers with no hatchery fish. Close them for 10 years and build back up a good population. No logging on the drainage. No dams. No more roads. Steelhead should all be wild and all be catch and release. If you have caught wild steelhead on a fly rod with a floating line and dry or unweighted steelhead fly, you can understand this kind of thinking. Hell, if you caught a wild steelhead on any kind of tackle you would understand. Rather than complain all the time, we should try to save what is left.

I think the steelhead and salmon could come back to historic proportions if the following things were done: 1.) All remaining undammed rivers are allowed to flow freely for eternity. 2.) Cities built near spawning habitat should be forced stop all development     near the spawning habitat. 3.) Ban commercial fishing for coldwater fish in the sea or freshwater. Catch     and Release only for wild stocks and certain hatchery stocks should be     maintained to create fisheries for the average angler while saving the     wild fish with prudent management. Seafood farming (the planting and     raising of seafood)would be implemented instead of commercial fishing. 4.) Train and pay former commercial fishermen to help study and protect the         fish stocks.     5.) Create tree farms for necessary lumber and ban logging in pristine         forests. Hire loggers to log the tree farms and use their expertise to             assist in the reclaimation of logged forests. Train loggers to fight         forest fires, maintain national parks and use their forestry skills             /training to help wilderness areas. 6.) retrofit all amenable dams with fish ladders to allow fish migration. 7.) breach all dams that cannot be retrofitted to help the salmon/steelhead         migrations. 8.) All hatchery plantings be restricted to planting native river stocks only     and augmenting the hatchery stock by a yearly infusion of native river.     stocks. 9.) Ban all logging, development and restrict access in sensitive areas. 10.) Reward organizations and industrial firms by giving huge tax breaks to companies that actively seek to help the environment by complying with the environmental regulations. 11.) Punish (15,000% tax rate)all firms that show wanton disregard for the environment by heavy taxation. 12.) Punish firms that try to leave the US in effort to circumvent the rules with a 20,000% tax rate. 13.) Punish (100,000% tax rate) rogue firms that try to lay off workers to offset financial punishments due to environmental callousness and ineptitude. 14.) after implementation of rules 10-13, all firms will be in compliance as it will be unprofitable to intentionally pollute. 15.) Bill nations with an exorbitant military service fee for resolving their wars with our military. This huge windfall of trillions of dollars would fund the government. clean up the environment/save the wild fish and lower our taxes. 16.) With the 15 rules above, the salmon, steelhead and other wild stocks would be saved, fisheries for the average angler would exist, the environment would be cleaner, the old growth forest would remain, wars would cease, loggers would still be employed, development would be carefully controlled, taxes would be lower, the military would be superpowerful/well funded and we would have enough money to enhance America’s future and resolve many of our problems.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :  #17-Outlaw all types of fishing in any of the river so reclamied. : After all it’s about the fish …right? You bet, Harry. I’m with you on that one. Rather than proposing to make it pure C+R, why not have a 1-weekend season? Hunting seems to work rather well like that. If the fish can handle pure C+R, they can handle some harvest. Why bias the policy against the vast majority of fishermen who like to keep some fish? : : 15.) Bill nations with an exorbitant military service fee for resolving their : wars with our military. This huge windfall of trillions of dollars would fund : the government. clean up the environment/save the wild fish and lower our : taxes. Should this be taken as "I’m not willing to pay for it myself"? Of course, sending a bill doesn’t mean you actually collect money. Do you *really* think we’d reap a "windfall"? No, if they have the money, rather than pay us, they’d keep that money and raise their own army. Then we’d be back to square one. It is in our own interest for these nations to not keep large standing armies. That’s what gives us the title "superpower".

If a country had the money to build a strong military, it probably would not need US aid to protect itself from other nations. For example, England would not need US intervention in the foreseeable future, but Kosovo will. Meanwhile, the US spent over a billion dollars on Kosovo and we never see that money again. The US will end up fighting over there again without compensation because of Milosevic or some other tyrant and we will spend billions of dollars to try to solve a problem that will never be solved without 50 or more years of commitment. As far as I am concerned, the US environmental problems are more important than Kosovo. Congress whines "a Billion dollars has been spent on the salmon in the last 20 years….", but is a happy camper whenever we blow billions of dollars in a few weeks to try to rectify a problem that has existed for 1000’s of years in the false hope that we can make things better in a month of bombing when the Serbs and Kosovars have been intolerant of each other for hundreds, if not thousands of years. A few years of peacekeeping will not make things better and the US will spend more on Kosovo, a place more than 3000 miles away from America than it will on fixing our environmental problems in the next few years. When was Kosovo a part of the US? Is it the 51st state? It is wrong for the government to spend more money on Kosovo than it does for many states. I bet the people of Wyoming are pleased that the citizens of Kosovo get more Wyoming taxpayer dollars than the people of Wyoming. If Kosovo wants our help, they better pay their share of the taxes. Whenever Americans need improvements or protection, Americans pay their government for those services. Why should another nation who uses our Governement to solve their problems be absolved from paying for the services that they used? Anyways, the *real* question is how much are *you* willing to have *your* taxes increase to fund all of your points?  If you are not willing to pay for it yourself, then it’s all just hot air.

no, I am willing to pay my taxes even with an increase, but the government should be efficient with the money it collects from taxpayers. It is not right for the government to spend billions of dollars on the problems of other nations while we have so many problems at home to solve. If the government is going to spend money on other nations, the government should demand payment for services rendered. I pay to fish by buying a license and that money is used to manage fisheries. My payment pays for the management services provided by my state. Why should the military be any different? If a country has a problem that has to be resolved by the military and they ask for our help, that US military aid should be paid for by the country that is asking for our help. What’s wrong with paying for services delivered? It’s ridiculous to let our tax dollars be spent without demanding compensation for what has been done. Spend the money on the salmon/steelhead, forests, waterways, educational system, infrastructure and technology instead of throwing money into a fire. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JonCook.

Response:

 #17-Outlaw all types of fishing in any of the river so reclamied. After all it’s about the fish …right? HM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… There are less Steelhead than ever, but if you want to work hard enough for them, they can still be found. Why do you think that is, Bill? I mean, why are there fewer steelhead than ever? — something bogus to avoid spam) I started fishing steelhead in the 60s in northern California. It was still pretty good fishing then, but the older guys really saw it in it’s ‘hay days’. I have fished with an old group of anglers that fished for them heavily from the end of W W II till just recently. Mostly, they are too old to wade and secondly in the last 10 years they have lost interest. We still have a pretty strong younger group that travel up and down the northwest coast of North America. I have listened to them tell the stories of fishing 50 years ago on the great un-damed rivers of North America. The mighty Russian, Eel, Trinity, Klamath, Rogue, Umpqua and on up through Oregon, Washington and the great rivers of British Columbia. It is a crime what we let happen to our great rivers. We mostly wipped out the wild steelhead in the 1900s. Bad logging, too many dams, de-watering and agriculture have lead to the loss of habitate for the might ‘Iron Head’. Commercial netting up north in BC is to blame also. If they could just start working on some of the good rivers that are left we could save some wild steelhead stocks. I have been thinking about this for the last 10 years. Take a few rivers and turn them back to wild rivers with no hatchery fish. Close them for 10 years and build back up a good population. No logging on the drainage. No dams. No more roads. Steelhead should all be wild and all be catch and release. If you have caught wild steelhead on a fly rod with a floating line and dry or unweighted steelhead fly, you can understand this kind of thinking. Hell, if you caught a wild steelhead on any kind of tackle you would understand. Rather than complain all the time, we should try to save what is left. I think the steelhead and salmon could come back to historic proportions if the following things were done: 1.) All remaining undammed rivers are allowed to flow freely for eternity. 2.) Cities built near spawning habitat should be forced stop all development    near the spawning habitat. 3.) Ban commercial fishing for coldwater fish in the sea or freshwater. Catch    and Release only for wild stocks and certain hatchery stocks should be    maintained to create fisheries for the average angler while saving the    wild fish with prudent management. Seafood farming (the planting and    raising of seafood)would be implemented instead of commercial fishing. 4.) Train and pay former commercial fishermen to help study and protect the         fish stocks.         5.) Create tree farms for necessary lumber and ban logging in pristine         forests. Hire loggers to log the tree farms and use their expertise to             assist in the reclaimation of logged forests. Train loggers to fight         forest fires, maintain national parks and use their forestry skills             /training to help wilderness areas. 6.) retrofit all amenable dams with fish ladders to allow fish migration. 7.) breach all dams that cannot be retrofitted to help the salmon/steelhead         migrations. 8.) All hatchery plantings be restricted to planting native river stocks only     and augmenting the hatchery stock by a yearly infusion of native river.    stocks. 9.) Ban all logging, development and restrict access in sensitive areas. 10.) Reward organizations and industrial firms by giving huge tax breaks to companies that actively seek to help the environment by complying with the environmental regulations. 11.) Punish (15,000% tax rate)all firms that show wanton disregard for the environment by heavy taxation. 12.) Punish firms that try to leave the US in effort to circumvent the rules with a 20,000% tax rate. 13.) Punish (100,000% tax rate) rogue firms that try to lay off workers to offset financial punishments due to environmental callousness and ineptitude. 14.) after implementation of rules 10-13, all firms will be in compliance as it will be unprofitable to intentionally pollute. 15.) Bill nations with an exorbitant military service fee for resolving their wars with our military. This huge windfall of trillions of dollars would fund the government. clean up the environment/save the wild fish and lower our taxes. 16.) With the 15 rules above, the salmon, steelhead and other wild stocks would be saved, fisheries for the average angler would exist, the environment would be cleaner, the old growth forest would remain, wars would cease, loggers would still be employed, development would be carefully controlled, taxes would be lower, the military would be superpowerful/well funded and we would have enough money to enhance America’s future and resolve many of our problems.

Response:

Question:

I saw a translation of the Redding CA fly shop’s fishing reports posted here several weeks ago. I am meeting a group that frequent the area this weekend and would like to share that with them. Does anyone know where I can get that post? Dingbat

Response:

I saw a translation of the Redding CA fly shop’s fishing reports posted here several weeks ago. I am meeting a group that frequent the area this weekend and would like to share that with them. Does anyone know where I can get that post? Dingbat

Hi Karl, This is the web address: http://206.155.34.5/report.taf Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Question:

C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.  These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters).

Response:

C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.

These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters). Danezen,  A friend and I caught a number of carp of 3 to 5 pounds on #14 GRHE in clear quiet water.  Fished the fly with a slow finger winding retrieve.  They make a lot of noise splashing as the hook is set and the first 3 minutes are a good fight…. then it is a down and dogged pull without much character to it until you bring them to net… Seem to lack the stamina of a salmonid. Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

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I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.  

In the absence of other fish, Carp is King. In the presence of other fish, carp is an abomination.

Response:

I have had some success using maribu jigs with hackle bodys, fished off docks and presented like you would to a trout. them buggers can be alfull picky. lots of fun on 2 pound line. The guy crappie fishing next to me about had a heart attack when I landed a 6 pounder on 2 pound line. bright colors seem to help. crashawk

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A number of years ago, I was fishing 11 Mile Reservoir for Pike. I was casting a large black Bunny Fly that had been very successful for me netting me a number of Pike up to twenty pounds. I was fishing a wind swept shoreline from a belly boat & was casting into the roiled water near the bank, retrieving the fly back into the clear. The Pike I had been catching were sitting right at the edge of this line. I made a cast very near the shore & thought that I had snagged. Then all hell broke loose. Following a huge swurl, the fish took off like a freight train running toward the middle of the lake. With an eight weight & a heavy leader, I was unable to slow the fish. When I reached my backing, I turned around, held my rod above my head, & kicked as hard as I could to keep the fish from taking all the line. I followed the fish as well as I could, without being able to gain any line. Finally just when the spool was nearly empty, it stopped. I regained some line by getting right over the fish. Then the work began. For what seemed to be a half hour, I followed the fish, got towed by him, gained line, lost line. I felt I had hooked a CO record pike.I finally gained enough line that I saw the fish. I was *VERY* dissappointed when I saw it was a carp. When I finally landed it, I guestimated it at over twenty pounds, similar in weight to some of the bigger pike I had caught. Over the next few days, my mind kept going back to the battle with this fish. I was probably the most exciting, hard fought battle I’d had with a fish. This turned around my thinking about carp. I now fish for them with dries when they’re surface feeding, & will fish for them with nymphs etc. I find that small flies, as a whole, fish better.   Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – C’mon you people, admit it, let share some carp on the fly stories.  These stalwart fighters have been much maligned over the decades regarding their worth as a worthy adversary. I know some of you have forsaken the Trout for the coarseness of what’s still considered in Europe as a noble Fish. The Carp.  Philosophical retorts as well as pragmatic advice on how to catch the suckers is welcome.   (Have tried steelhead type egg flies with little success for starters). There is a story in the current California Fly Fisher about sneak fishing for large carp in ponds in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. Written by Seth Norman with photos by Valentine Atkinson. He scored on egg flies. The fish were spooky. The proper camoflage would be to dress as a bum and cast a short rod from a park bench.

Laugh.  I really miss my subscription to that magazine but I no longer live in California.  If you (the generic you) live in California, and you flyfish,  I highly recommend a subscription to the magazine. -Mark Vinsel BTW, in case this rare willingness to write on your favorite quarry inspires you to want to subscribe, Cal FFer can be reached at: P.O. Box 40429 San Francisco, CA,  94140 (415) 284-0313

At one time they had an email address as well but were having trouble with their service provider and I haven’t seen anything from them in a long time.  I had a good feeling about them when I first subscribed to the magazine and they apologized for not getting back so soon because the staff was out fishing. John Fereira

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Question:

Hi I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at Thanks for the help. Jamie Hart

Response:

I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at

I need same type of info.  I e-mailed this type of request to TU national over a month ago and haven’t heard anything from them. Please post a reply to the Newsgroup. Tight Lines, Gerry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I need some help.  Does anyone know where i can find some flyfishing clip art?  I neeed it for our TU newsletter.  Please e-mail me at Thanks for the help. Jamie Hart  Get a life!!!!

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