Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Bellsouth
" so I my be incommunicado for a while anyway.
so what’s different? –waldo
The cash register at your shop communicated just fine with me today, as did Tommy. Damn that fella can sell! Op
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " so I my be incommunicado for a while anyway. so what’s different? –waldo
<SNIP Op –but maybe I will be able to afford to sex– Unlike ISP
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » One More RRR TR
The previous posts on the RRR provided a great description of the weather, the river and the activity. This was my first smallmouth fishing opportunity as well as my first clave. Until the clave, most of my fly fishing experience was limited to largemouth and bluegills in ponds, lakes, and slow moving rivers. The clave was an outstanding introduction to fishing for smallmouths. It was also the first time I fished a river like the Rapp – and really learned to appreciate a wading staff. It was hot and there were a number of challenges, but it was also a great learning experience. With some coaching from Wayne and Frank Reid, I caught my first smallies, had the opportunity to try out a float tube and a kayak, and to learn a lot about heat stress. Special thanks to Allan Epps for his help with the kayak. Bottom line – I really enjoyed the chance to meet and fish with the other clave attendees, a great group. Looking forward to the next time – maybe trout? Thanks Al Poklemba
Al, Glad you have you along. That was the "newbie initiation" clave. Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff. Depending on your point of view, it will only get better. Frank Reid
(nice TR snipped) Thanks Al Poklemba
Al, it was our pleasure to fish with such a gentleman. I have some great small stream jaunts for Brookies in the SNP or Mossy Creek for a spring creek experience, and the Jackson River for a big trout water experience. Just let me know and we’ll hit the creeks! Wayne to fish is human…to release Divine!
Al, Glad you have you along. That was the "newbie initiation" clave. Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff. Depending on your point of view, it will only get better. Frank Reid
smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all. Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"
Hey Frank baby, what’s up with the Mr. G. intro? Op
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al, Glad you have you along. That was the "newbie initiation" clave. Hot weather, humidity, low water, high water, tough fishing, all designed to weed out the chaff. Depending on your point of view, it will only get better. Frank Reid smallie or two, what with the tough fishing and all. Looking forward to seeing you next year on the Rapp. Frank (chaff) Church in Elkhart, IN bassbugr AT yahoo dot com "jes’ blowin’ in the wind"
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Fishing in Butte County
Check with Fish First Fly shop in Chico. 167 E 3rd St. Chico CA 95928 Tel (530) 343-8300 Fax (530) 343-8934 Their web site is www.fishfirst.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish. I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by. If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.
I just resently moved to Chico and I love to flyu fish. I’m don’t know where any good local fishing spots are near by. If anyone could help me with some streams to fish and some flys to use here in Butte County I would appreciate it Thank you.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » Fly fishing for coho salmon – Capilano River, Vancouver, BC
What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.
–Fish just the high tide change. A hour before to a hour after the change in high tide. Have a beer and relaxe, they probably won’t bite any other time of the day. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.
Hi Derek, As Chris mentioned below, Silvers can get very hard to catch after they have entered the river. If you are still in the tide water of this river I would try to go upstream to the top pool where the fish hold waiting for rain or go downstream to the mouth or closer to the ocean where they are more aggressive. I would try morning and evening and on the outgoing tide? We fish for them every year south of Cordova, Alaska right on the ocean where they are almost like stripers in the surf. We use only floating lines and when it is smooth on top and not too windy, we use Pink Pollywogs on top that are clipped deer hair poppers. If you can wade for them at the mouth of a river, they are way more aggressive. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! I suck at fly fishing for coho. I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver. I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work. Slow-moving, deep pool. Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side. Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it. Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.
Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one. Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him. Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help! I suck at fly fishing for coho. I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver. I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work. Slow-moving, deep pool. Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side. Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it. Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.
Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one. Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him. Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie
the other thing he can try is fishing for the coho out in the saltwater when they are actually feeding… makes a big difference in the aggressiveness of the coho. out in the salt the coho are super aggressive and they bite well. but the coho in the rivers definetely seem to turn on and off. when they are off, they will hit nothing, no matter what. try off-color water and early morning times, they have worked better than anything else for me. chris
Help! I suck at fly fishing for coho. I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver. I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work. Slow-moving, deep pool. Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side. Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it. Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Fly Fishing Intellectual or Physical?
Luis, I didn’t want to give the impression that my second son, Jared, is incapable of mastering different skills. I think he can. However, they will not be the same skills as my first son, Jacob. (snip) There are many kinds of intelligence, and strengths… we all have and lack some. They come into play in the form of different paths for each flyfisher.
You are correct. In 1995 Howard Gardner, an educator, had a book published that described intelligence as stands of spaghetti or string. "Multiple intelligences" as he put it, could be categorized into seven areas or strings: logical-mathematical, linguistic, musical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal. Each individual intelligence stand or string is constantly touching and interacting with all the another stands. It is hard to separate one from the other. All children have all of these intelligences, however not in the same quantity. Every child has ONE area that they are strongest in. That child would then be classified as that type of a LEARNER. The problem with the traditional I.Q. test, which the schools still use today, is that it measures intelligence as a glass of liquid. The test determines how much liquid is in the glass. That is all. It makes no classification of strong areas and weak areas. The old I.Q. test is still used because, though educators can test a child to see which of the multiple intelligences they are strongest in, they can not determine how much of that intelligence they have. Additionally, no child is equal to another in all areas or in the way that their intelligences interact with each other. It’s kind of like a fingerprint. Every child is unique in the way they learn and think. Let me take a second to described the SEVEN intelligences: LOGICAL-MATHEMATICAL: They have a sensitivity to and capacity to discern, logical or numerical patterns; ability to handle long chains of reasoning. LINGUISTIC: They have a sensitivity to the sounds, rhythms, and meanings of words; sensitivity to the different functions of language. MUSICAL: They have the abilities to produce and appreciate rhythm, pitch, and timbre; appreciation of the forms of musical expressiveness. SPATIAL: They have the capacities to perceive the visual-spatial world accurately and to perform transformations on one’s initial perceptions. BODILY-KINESTHETIC: They have the abilities to control one’s body movements and to handle objects skillfully. INTERPERSONAL: They have the capacities to discern and respond appropriately to the moods, temperaments, motivations, and desires of other people. INTRAPERSONAL: Access to one’s own feelings and the ability to discriminate among them and draw on them to guide behavior; knowledge of one’s own strengths, weaknesses, desires, and intelligences. Luis, the gentleman that you speak of, though it might not be his highest area, is high in interpersonal intelligence. This is why he does well in restaurant relations. He might also be high in bodily-kinesthetic and spatial intelligences. Regarding his low ability of reading, could indicate that he is low in linguistic. He probably is. However, I would gather to say that the greater reason is due to educators giving up on him due to his struggle with the written word. And maybe he gave up on himself. I personally believe EVERYONE can read and write well if adequate attention and dedication is given to learning it. My oldest son, Jacob, is a linguistic learner, thus does well in a traditional school setting. My second son, Jared, is a spatial learner, however he’s also almost bind. What an irony. This gives him a handicap in his learning due to the way his brain works vs. the lack of eye sight. He learns best when he can see something, however, with his pop-bottle glasses, he only get a circle of clear vision directly in front of him. A normal range of vision is about 45 degrees. Jared’s range of clear vision is about 15-20 degrees with no peripheral vision to speak of. You can see how this limits him in his learning as a spatial learner. Jared, however, is highly coordinated and has good control of his body movements. Jacob is not. Jacob is a physical klutz. My original question was to narrow down what type of intelligence is most useful in fly fishing. I would gather to say that a musical, interpersonal, or intrapersonal learners would not use their strongest areas in fly fishing. However, a spatial, linguistic, logical-mathematical, or bodily-kinesthetic learners could possibly use their strongest areas in fly fishing. But, which one is most important in constantly catching the most and largest fish? Can a linguistic learner sit and read all book available to become an excellent fly fisherman? Can a logical-mathematical learner evaluate the odds in different situations to become an excellent fly fisherman? Can a bodily-kinesthetic learner practice casting until it’s perfect and become an excellent fly fisherman? Or, can a spatial learner look at his environment and become an excellent fly fisherman? All these areas might be important like string touching each other. However, which one area is most important? That’s what I was originally getting at without a long drown out explanation, which I just did. Not to say that anyone is stupid. I don’t think anyone really is. Vern
Vern, I’ll echo what you have heard from the other posters. There are indeed mental and physical components to fly fishing, and there can be many approaches to the sport. A real strength in one component can compensate for a weakness in the other. Your boys may develop very different methods and tactics, but with your guidance and obvious enthusiasm both should fare quite well. You guys are lucky to have each other. George Adams
I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party. It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman. Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc. Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc. Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical?
I wrote the post about the 20-ft. caster, and in his case, it is an intuitive genius, a sixth sense, if you will, regarding the ways of living things, be they trout or elk. When fishing, he is totally focused, although he might casually point out a mother duck and her brood hiding in an eddy, deep in the shadows of an overhang, that you and the next 30 guys would have never seen. This man has great trouble reading, in fact is near-illiterate, but he is an expert at observing and gleaning information from people. He can also charm anyone at will, it seems, at any time. He once had every waitress in a Colorado restaurant at our table, telling us their life and love stories not 20 minutes after arriving, and he flirted with every one of them, and not one gave any sign of being left out. I think this magic translates or transmutates into fly fishing. There are many kinds of intelligence, and strengths… we all have and lack some. They come into play in the form of different paths for each flyfisher. I recommend reading about the different paths in Yoga, in a book by Mircea Eliade. The part on the many paths relates to this topic. — Luis
Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day. Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory. His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz. Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged. Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing. Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference. At their ages, two years is a huge difference. I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish. He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party. It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman. Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc. Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc. Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion. In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern
I have two boys, aged 30 and 27, who have been fly fishing since little tots. I never tried to direct their interest or overly instruct, I felt that if they stuck with it they would develop their own skills and interests. The youngest can lay out a dry 60 ft as pretty as you ever want to see, the oldest maybe 40, but he can out roll cast the younger by 15 ft. One prefers dries and wets and one prefers sight fishing and nymphs. I guess what I am saying is, give them the opportunity to experience the different facets, don’t force any one on them or over instruct and most of all let em have fun… Both of my boys are married now with two children each and long for the times when they were young with no cares but for the next strike. jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day. Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory. His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz. Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged. Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing. Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference. At their ages, two years is a huge difference. I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish. He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party. It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman. Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc. Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc. Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion. In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern
[snip] I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party.
[and again] Vern, don’t believe everything Louie LaPlac posts. First of all, I *know* on a good day with a trailing breeze that he can actually cast close to 30 feet! /daytripper ;^)
Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability?
It is basically what you make of it. You can fly-fish with hardly any knowledge at all, or you can devote incredible amounts of time attaining knowledge and skills to supplement it. The main thing is to enjoy it, no matter how you go about it. TL MC
Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability?
One of the best flyfishermen I’ve ever fished with doesn’t cast beyond 40 feet. Not that he doesn’t have the physical skill. He moves on the stream like an otter and always seems to position himself where he doesn’t need to make a long cast. On the other hand, the ability to see the fly and react to the strike sure seems to have faded in direct proportion to the increase in grey hair and waist size. 
Like most things, it depends. Teach your children both, to their individual abilities and have a good time doing it. You’re a lucky guy. — Ken Fortenberry
Hi Vern, All of the tenets of fly fishing are as important as one makes them. Some believe that the quantity or quality of fish caught is the measure of a fly fisherman. Others treat the sport differently. I have met guys who are full fledged streamside entomologists. Others are stream side ichthyologists as they know every aspect of a particular fish’s behavior. I know others who prefer to tie flies than to fish. Personally, I love to cast, learn about the bugs, the fish and I am now tying my flies. It seems that I am evolving as I learn more of the sport. I can’t tell you what part of fly fishing will be important to me next year, but I guarantee I will be fly fishing. Expose Jacob and Jared to the fly fishing world, and let them gravitate toward their individual preferences. It is much like music. Many folks play the piano, but some gravitate to classical music while others gravitate to rock music. Pete
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is fly fishing an intellectual skill or a skill of physical capability? My two oldest boys are as different as night and day. Jacob (my oldest boy at age 9) is an intellectual genius with a photographic memory. His I.Q. is 142, although he’s a social and physical klutz. Jared (my second son at age 7) is a highly physically coordinated and socially talented young man. However, his I.Q. is only 80 which makes him mentally challenged. Their grades at school are indicators of these differences. I take both boys fishing. Their attack at the sport are completely different which I believe is an indication of their age difference, as well. Jacob is 9 years old and Jared is 7 years old, so there is two years difference. At their ages, two years is a huge difference. I’m currently trying to teach Jacob how to fly fish. He seams to have a problem with casting. I then read someone else’s post about an individual that can’t cast beyond 20 feet and only uses a limited selection of flies, but catches more and larger fish than anyone else in their party. It caused me to think about what it takes to be a good fly fisherman. Is it the ability to read the water, understand what the fish might be thinking, know the difference between the different species, know where and how to place the fly, know what’s hatching, etc. Or, is it the ability to make a nice cast that drops the fly softly on the water, etc. Both are important, but what is more important the intellectual or the physical? Your opinions are appreciated and could make an interesting discussion. In addition, your comments can only help me in helping my boys enjoy the sport. In advance, thanks for your comments. Vern
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Rods » St. Croix Rods
Looking for a 3 wt. rod St Croix Imperials-any experience or comments?
I have 3 St. Croix Rods (ledgend series) and I think they are a super value. They cast smoothly and have a modulous of graphite equivalent to more expensive rods. I highly recommend them. Woollyworm
I bought a 9′ 3-4 wt. St. Croix Imperial this summer for bluegill and am very pleased with it. The rod is nicely finished and handles a 4wt FWF line very well. I was originally concerned that a 4wt. might be too light to cast larger panfish poppers, but it casts up to a #6 popper or hair bug with no problems. At $100 it would be hard to beat. —
Been dealing with St. Croix rods for seven years. Excellent products for the dollar. The Imperial is available in a 7′ 3/4 or 9′ 3/4. Both are a high-modulus, relatively fast rods. Current price as of 10/95 $110 and $120. You want-I’ve got. E-mail
St. Croix rods great deal for the money. Been selling them for 7 years. 2 models avail. in Imperial 3wt. 7foot and 9foot Current prices are $110 and $120 respectively. Interested? e-mail
I couldn’t agree more with the sentiments about St. Croix rods. If you want a Sage rod for half the price, buy a St. Croix Legend series. Lifetime warranty included. It’s not quite as nice a reel seat, but the fish, the fly, and the fly line don’t really care.
writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line. It’s a very nice rod for the money. You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more. Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value.
RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In
Right on Jim, if you’ve read my earlier posts on St Croix rods, you know I believe they are the best buy on the market for the money. I have Sage rods to compare them with, and my little 7 footer holds it’s own against Sage. (maybe not in overall quality, but what do the bluegills care??) Frank Church Goshen, In
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: St Croix’s lightest rod is a 7′ 3/4 weight which IMO casts best with a 4 wt line. It’s a very nice rod for the money. You can’t get a better rod anywhere even if you spend twice the money or more. Just too bad they use such a cheezy reel seat, but that’s one way to help keep the price down. IMO, St Croix is an excellent dollar value. RJ, the "cheesy" reel seat you refer to is not necessarily there for higher profit, even the big names (Orvis, LL Bean, etc.) use aluminum bands on the small light rods, for the weight saving gained in not using wood/metal for a reel seat. I happen to like mine, even preferring the bands to the standard reel seat. Looks cool too. Frank Church Goshen, In
Frank, I agree with you. I like slip rings, or cap and ring seats and put them on all the light rods I build. I was referring to the standard, oversized, all aluminum, down-locking ones that St. Crx puts on most of their rods except the Legend series. I wasn’t aware that St. Crx was using slip rings on their 7′ model yet/again/for the first time. From visits to their factory showroom it’s my impression that they’re a little inconsistent as to what type of seat they put on that model. It deserves a light slip ring seat, not a clunky aluminum one. - Rj
Right on Woolworm, I think these rods are an excellent buy and am surprised that they don’t get more mention when someone is looking for a moderately priced rod. Maybe if they offered a "starter" package like Orvis, Sage, Cortland, et al. they might get a little more attention.
Ahhh, there’s the rub! The rods included in the Cortland starter package are made by St. Croix. And pretty durn nice they are, too. I fished with a Cortland 6wt for years, when I couldn’t afford to own five different rods. My wife uses it now, since I’ve aquired the St. Croix 4-5wt 4 piece pack rod. I LIKE IT! Last month I broke it in fishing for cutts in Rocky Mtn. National Park, and it exceeded my expectations of a travel rod. Primo! — And the Lord put aside his huge cigar…-F.Zappa
After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming. I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line. The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old. The reel is a Pflueger Medalist. I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods. Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains. I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods. I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight. A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better. I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome. Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod? Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′? I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths. I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube. Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice. Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address
Go with the 9 ft. rod. Travel rod if you truly intend air travel with it. therwise don’t bother
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After years of fly fishing for pan fish & bass in Nebraska (but not much fishing done in the past 8 years, or so), I’m looking forward to fly fishing for trout after moving to Wyoming. I’ve been using a Fenwick, 4 piece-7 foot, fiberglass rod with a 6 wt, weight forward line. The Fenwick must be 20-25 years old. The reel is a Pflueger Medalist. I lived in an area where no one fly fished and I haven’t kept up on the advancements in rods. Since moving to Wyoming, I’ve taken a fly tying class which was great fun and I’m really looking forward to heading to the mountains. I imagine that there is a vast improvement with the grahpite rods. I’ve been looking at the St. Croix, Imperial rods in the 5/6 weight. A couple of people that I’ve visited with suggested the travel rods. Others seem to think that two piece rods work a little better. I thought since I already have a travel rod (even though it’s old and not state of the art) that perhaps I should buy the two piece rod, although, when hiking into the Cloud Peak wilderness area the two piece rod might be a little cumbersome. Do you give up anything in going with the 4 piece rod? Which rod length would be best, the 8′ 6" or the 9′? I can’t imagine that 6 inches would make much of a difference but it must or they wouldn’t make the two lengths. I’ll be doing mainly small stream and pond fishing and will probably be buying a float tube. Thanks for any advice that you might offer to this fly fishing novice. Would you mind e-mailing me in addition to posting to the group as my news server doesn’t get all of the messages. Thanks, — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address — To reply, remove one "bs" from E-mail address
If you are planning on using a float tube the 9′ is better. St. Croix rods are one of the best buys for the money. You give up very little in a graphite 4 piece rod compared to a 2 piece. Joel Axelrad
Guy, I believe that my 5 wt Legend is 44 million mod. graphite, and I know its super fast. I toss big stillwater streamer and such. It needs a good deal of line to even load. If you like fast the Legend is it, but in 2 -3 -4 wts I prefer slower actions, Sage LL, Powell SS and LG. If you do too, look into the Imperial line. jg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks.
I own two St. Croix Imperial rods and they are very different from each other. One of the rods is a 7 ft. 6 in. 4/5 wt and the other is a 9 ft. 6 in. 7/8 wt. The 4/5 wt has a fast action, roll casts well, but can be difficult with short overhead or sidearm casts. The 7/8 wt. has more of a moderate action. I am not sure if the entire series of rods can be classified as having one particular action. Don’t really know what type of graphite is used. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy
I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy Search, Read, Post to Usenet My wife has the St. Croix Imperial 5/6 wt. 8′6" 4-piece. I’d call it a softer, "medium action" rod (compared with my Sage RPL 6 wt.). It casts nicely, and the price was right. John Y. Liu via HP200LX palmtop Net-Tamer V 1.06H For HP100/200 & OG700 – Registered
I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy
I don’t know the type of graphite St.Croix uses but I do own 2 Imperials, a 6-7 and 7-8, they are both medium fast. I also own a Cortland 3-4 which is a St.Croix blank and it is medium. My stepson owns a Legend, its on the fast side of medium fast and a bit lighter than the Imperial line. His Legend is also a 7-8 by 9 ft. 6in. as is my Imperial, so it makes a reasonable comparison. My son owns a6-7 Imperial also but its an earlyer model than ours and"softer". My origanal6-7 was the same way(now broken).These early ones are gray in color and the later are brown, they do not have the same action. We also own Sage rods in our family and St. Croix’s work well but they require more effort and the line control is less precise. Sage’s are great and unconditinaly guarateed for life and a guy can be in the "Discovery" series for very few dollars above the Legend, check it out! DAVE G.
I would like to find out more about the Imperial and Legend rods from St Croix. What type of graphite is used and how would the actions be classified? I am interested in the 3-4 wt rods. Any comments pertinent to these rods are appreciated. Thanks. Guy
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Old MacDonald had a farm……….
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh
In California one of our largest crops is rice and the biproduct of rice production consists of millions of mosquito fish and crawdads flushed out of the fields before harvest. Most of these die in the drainage ditches. Since most of the veggies eat rice just think how many animal lives they are responsible for. Harvesting other grains destroys bird nests and draining wetlands to grow these benign grains have destroyed the waterfowl flocks that use to blacken our skies with their flights (do you think that might have been another form of air polution 
) I wish they would enjoy their veggies and leave more good wholesome meat for the rest of us dewayne
Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious
Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. [rest deleted]
Well… It *is* the truth, isn’t it ? TimW
Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts!
Hmm, using my wonderous (almost if I could get it to work properly) new bit of software at home, I can browse the newsgroups whilst also being able to see the newsgroups list. The concept of people on ‘talk.politic.tibet’, ‘rec.animals.wildlife’, ‘rec.backcountry’ etc being ‘fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts’ just doesn’t really ring true. I think the best thing is to assume it is a troll and <snip — David Arno
As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters.
This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie
If animals had a voice, they would demand an apology from YOU.
Is "dying from lack of meat" the technical definition of "Bob’s" condition; i don’t have a strong medical background. -curious
Sounds kind of funny to me, maybe that doctor should face a review board, sounds like s/he doesn’t know what s/he is talking about. If it were protein deficiency, that’s one thing, but "dying from lack of meat"….sounds like a diagnosis a 3-year old hamburger lover would make. Cynthia S. Smith http://www.sn.no/~csmith http://www.ifi.uio.no/~cynthias
= = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! ( the rest deleted)
200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.
As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian.
As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding animals. In addition, the animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in many parts of this country.
More so than was caused by the vast herds of bison and pronghorns in the past? Jessica and the zoo: Kosh (dog), Liza (horse), Nikki, Pixel, and Voodoo (Demon Cats from Hell), Flick (snake) and oh yeah, Keith (husband), who puts up with us all. "Frogs are generally considered a pretty non-violent species. Unless, of course, you’re a fly". -Kermit
[brutally slaughtered text was here] As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat.
Except in brownies. And I think the original poster has that down just pat. 8^) TimW
<Hundreds of lines of crap deleted Excellent! Muskie, meet Dr Jai. Dr Jai, meet Muskie. Why don’t the two of you bugger off to alt.fan.jai-maharaj and have a cosy chat? — I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn’t know. Mark Twain.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Doug Arendt) writes: = = As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life = than hunters or meat eaters. = = This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being = killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced = there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… = it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity = of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals = (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. In addition, the = animal you kill and eat has used that excess plant matter to create = urine, fecal matter, methane, etc… which causes gross pollution in = many parts of this country. Hmmm…what if you raise the meat animals on permanent pasture (i.e. rarely if ever plowed)? And the previous poster is ignoring that all those ‘pollutants’, urine, fecal matter, etc. are actually the main ingredients in organic fertilizer. Guess they don’t eat organic produce, huh….. Besides, the WORST pollutant of our water ways is run-off from urban and suburban lawns. Sue — ======= Mike Mayer (414) 751-3557 Work: Technology Group, Inc. Neenah, WI Home:
In the west a real factor is the amount of water it takes to grow a pound of steak. Alfalfa and hay need LOTS of water. It is tremendously inefficient to grow our protein on the hoof.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie
—— Hmmmmmmmmm?—— Nice disertation but you’re boy Bob is the exception, not the rule. Americans have TOO MUCH MEAT in their diet and their Cholesterol Levels and Fat levels are beyond reason. FAT INTAKE should not exceed 5% of the total calories and Cholesterol should be as close to zero as possible. George Gehrke
Who cares this is a fishing forum….let’s talk FISHING…. (pass the salt and pepper pleaz, while eatting prime rib!) Em*
[snip] BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?
I hate to be a nit picking buttinsky but using words like "all" and "always" in a statement usually gets you in trouble. This is no exception. There have relatively recently been discovered ecosystems that are completely independent of the sun’s energy. I’m referring to deep sea sulfur vents which exist in total darkness and sulfur reducing bacteria are the primary producers. Regarding cattle etc. being fed grass. If the doubter ( I’ve lost track of who’s who on this thread) would like to come to Kansas, I’ll show them the largest remaining tract of tallgrass prairie ( and some of the most beautiful scenery in the world ) with all kinds of cattle happily munching the grass and making steak. — Brent L. Brock Kansas State University Dept. Agronomy, Range Science
Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes
text deleted hare krishna, actually i agree with a lot of this post. IF YOU ARE NOT SELF-SUFFICIENT YOU ARE NOT A VEGETARIAN. that’s why i’m learning everything i can about self-sufficiency and sustainable, cruelty-free, organic agriculture. but i must say that the below text is a load of garbage. i’m a hare krishna devotee (please refrain from the cult jokes). i live on a krishna farm community and teach at our elementary school. all the children here have been strict vegetarians since birth. visitors are always commenting on how radiantly healthy they look. some of the older kids who go to public high school are star athletes of every sport. none have EVER eaten meat. bhaktin casey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie
| Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! [chomp] | TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) | [..] | to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results | were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor Riiiiight! Heard of Craig Shergold?
[...] : : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. : What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on : GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? : Now we await the long silence….. Would that we had had to endure YOURS. Be that as it may, however, it’s clear that you have never been to a cattle-raising country in which you actually engaged in observation. The fact is that most beef cattle are raised by grazing and, in the U. S. anyway, only spend the last few weeks of life in a feedlot. It is my understanding that many other beef-producing countries dispense with the feedlot and bring the animals to market directly from the range (which is why their beef tends to be somewhat less tender and somewhat more strongly flavored than the rather bland stuff we’re used to in the U. S.). How much time does the average beef cow spend in the feedlots, Seetoh? [With any luck, we'll now endure a long silence...] — – Rich Young (E-mail will be posted publicly as I see fit. You have been warned.)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh
BACK UP HERE and consider this. "ALL life comes from the sun". You figure out for yourself the evidence that plant material sustains flesh. At least, I hope you do not lack ‘logic’. George Gehrke/Mr. Gink Now then, can we all start talking about fly fishing please?
: : As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life : than hunters or meat eaters. : : This is a totally absurd statement. If all you say about animals being : killed in the fields is true… and the plant matter that is produced : there is fed to animals, which you in your arrogance kill and eat… : it takes up to 10 times as much plant matter to make a given quantity : of meat, so you are actually killing many times more animals : (_including_ your cow, pig, etc.) than a vegetarian. : As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. What makes you so sure that "most of those animals are fed on GRASS" ? What evidence do you have to support this? Now we await the long silence….. seetoh
Hello there fellow food and nutrition enthusiasts! I would like to take this time to point out the double-standards by which vegetarians live by. I feel it is my duty to open the eyes of the hypocrites, once and for all. Alot of vegetarians eat that way because they dont believe in killing animals. Well, guess what? You vegetarians kill many animals by eating corn, beans, turnips and other such vegetables. When old macdonald is out in his field in planting or harvesting season, he is running over many mice, bird eggs, salamanders, and you name it with his plow and tractor. Ever seen how fast a baby rabbit is when it is two weeks old? Not very. It is also not very likely that a nest of young bunnys could survive a run in with a plow or tractor wheel. Grouse eggs, plus baby grouse dont stand a chance in the farmers WHEAT fields when its pickin’ time. Weasels, baby skunks, baby woodchucks, baby geese, baby oppusom, tucked in their little burrows into the soft dirt of the farmers field dont have a chance in planting or plowing season. Every time you take a bite of that corn, and think to yourself, " Im glad im a vegetarian, I dont kill animals like those stupid hunters do " , you contribute to at least a few senseless animal deaths. For every 200 acre farmers field, think of all the animals that are killed or mamed by the plow or harvester! Animals dont know any better to nest and live somewhere else. They see a nice field to nest up in, not knowing the horrors that lie ahead. Think of all the shrews, all the insects, and all the animal life that is destroyed when old macdonald plants and harvests. It is overwelming. Now, I have seen many farms and met many farmers, and I havent seen ONE farmer without a shotgun, or a gun that he hunts birds and animals with. I have seen many farms that use barb wire fences to keep out deer so they dont eat the vegetable products growing on the farm. If you look at some of those fences, you can see deer hair and skin stuck to the barbs, and sometimes deer will get stuck in those fences and ultimatley die a slow and horrible death, all twisted and mangled with broken necks. And, most farmers have 22’s they use to pot-shoot groundchucks and groundhogs, to keep them from eating the vegetable products they are growing. Not a pretty picture I am painting here is it veggies? rabbits are always a nusiance on farms, and hence, many farmers utilize cats and dogs to comb the fields, hoping these pets will keep the rabbit population down. A farmers field yeilding vegetable products is not a animal friendly place as you can see! But wait, theres more! Many farmers growing vegetable product also use pesticides. These pesticides either annoy or kill tens of thousands of different insect animal life. Not only do the pesticides used kill insect life, when the rains come down, these pestecides wash off into farm creeks, ponds, and lakes. Ever seen a river next to some large corn or lettuce farms? The fish life is pathetic at best. catfish with tumors, and where bass used to live, suckers take over because the runoff has killed the oxygen levels, making it almost impossible for fish to survive. So, even eating corn kills fish! Pesticide runoff is a common problem where farmers grow vegetable product. It causes the death of thousands of fish, and virtually destroys these freshwater ecosystems, killing turtles, ducks, kingfishers, herons, cranes, mink, otter, racoon, muskrat and so on. I think your getting the picture. How does that guilt-free salad taste now? and think of the cows, deer, fox, coyote,and other large game that drink form these pesticide creeks and lakes! All so you can have your guilt-free vegetarian life style! How about them veggies! As you can see, vegetarians kill just as much, if not MORE animal life than hunters or meat eaters. I have exposed the double standards and hypocrisy by which vegetarians live, and I hope they stop the high and mighty banter, and the self righteous behaviour they impose on everyone else who chooses to eat meat. All I ask in return is an apology from AR’s (animal rights people) to hunters and meat eaters. It is as simple as that.——Muskie TO MEAT OR NOT TO MEAT? ( REVISED EDITION 8/10/96) In a recent study, a 35 year old male, strict vegetarian of 12 years, went for a checkup at his doctors office. Thinking he was perfectly fit, the man proceeded out the office right after the checkup. The doctor chased him down the hall, and grabbed him aside then he said, " Im sorry Bob, you have 2 months to live". Bob had NOT eaten meat since he was 23, and the results were that his heart was dying due to lack of meat. The doctor said he needed meat at least occasionaly, to live. Unfortunately, the problem could not be corrected, it was too late for Bob. he died on 8/21/96. This sad episode COULD have been prevented. In another related study, Woman who are pregnant that were vegetarians averaged babies with a much lower weight than meat-eating pregnant mothers. 50% of the babies of strict vegetarians were considered "weak" and "having birth weights of dangerously low levels". This is sad news, but true. You see people, we need meat to build our strong hearts, and strong muscles. These "weak" babies didnt get a chance to choose if they wanted to be vegetarians, their bodies were forced only veggies by the unsensitive mothers, who, in a way, were already forcing their beliefs on their un-born child. This doesnt need to be the case. Or how about when your child is 16 years old, and is 4 foot 9, with bad bones and bad vision? what do you do when that child asks you , "mommy, why did you take the life away from me? why didnt you feed me the necessary nutrients that meat provides when I was in your womb?" These sad cases are all too often. Meat builds champions, and warriors. We need meat to fight our wars, and to be victorious. We need the feeling of bringing home the meat to our family. A feeling that cant be taken for granted. Come on people, cows are no better than mosquitos. If your a vegetarian, and bugs hit your windshield, and it doesnt bother you, why does it bother you when an old cow gets a bolt through the head? What is the difference? The folks that started our very existence, ate meat and loved it. If it were not for their great meat-eating abilities, we all would not be here. So I ask you to rally your support for our GREAT fishermen and hunters. these caring and bright people continue fine traditions that are responsible for your being here. That great Sportsmen, the breath of fresh air in a smoggy world, is the master of his domain, a true "king" if you will, of his senses and surroundings. Fishing and Hunting are the bright positives in a negative world. And there is nothing like enjoying a big barbeque before a good hunt or fishing outing. Ribs, chicken wings, drumsticks, meatballs, fish fillets(trout are best served whole), steaks, eggs, chicken breasts, veil, lamb cutlet dripping with grease, juicy, flavourful bratwurst, and best of all, a nice side of ham with some spicey mustard. these sorts of foods provide oneself with power, nutrition, and the ability to prosper in adverse enviornments. So, I ask you again, support the great fishermen and hunters. Give them a pat on the back when you see one , and tell him/her, "thanks, thanks for all youve done. Thank you for allowing me the gift of true life. I am forever thankful." Lets not have anymore weak babies and sad stories like the one above. Start supporting meat and our great sportspersons. For these individuals know the essence of life. If you take the time to really know a sportsperson, you might change your life, for the better.——Muskie
: As usual, you totally miss the concept that most of those animals : are fed on GRASS, which humans can’t eat. Rangeland contains a wide : variety of animal life, none of which are killed to make room for : the growth of human foodstuff (in this case, cattle). So while it : may take 10 times as much grass to make a pound of meat, feeding : the grass to the cattle certainly does no harm to the surrounding : animals. You are of course referring to buffaloes and wolves when you talk about animals not being killed to make room for cattle. Then, there are the slash and burn tactics of Brazilian ranchers. No animals being killed there, eh. And let us not forget polluted water sources because of animal waste. Since we are discussing animals, I won’t even go into how many people die early because of the garbage that is passed off on them as meat. -Tom
Don’t forget all the pollution created when shipping those yummy veggies cross country. todd — "I envy not him that eats better meat than I do, nor him that is richer or wears better clothes than I do. I envy nobody but him, and him only, that catches more fish than I do." Izaak Walton
200 acres? Not far from here they measure their fields by the section (640 acres)! And don’t forget all the animals that are no longer with us because of loss of habitat to the plow.
Not to mention all the corn and wheat that died so that we could live. Don’t discount them; they’re a sight more alive than rocks and minerals, after all. Just think; if redwood trees were a culinary treat, them environmentalists and vegetarians would have a whole new battle to fight. Not that I distance myself from those particular causes; I’m simply posing as the polemic. Cheers, Jen
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Flies » Wyoming Trout Flies?
My son and I will be going horsepacking and fly fishing just east of Yellowstone in August. Two other fathers and sons are going also. I have committed to tie all the flies for the trip. I have never fished this area before–closest I’ve come is the Bighorn. Living in Tennessee I have no local knowledge. Rivers we could be fishing include the Elk’s Fork, the Boulder/Greybull and the Southfork/Yellowstone. Any ideas on fly patterns we will need that time of year. Thanks in advance for any info.
My son and I will be going horsepacking and fly fishing just east of Yellowstone in August. Two other fathers and sons are going also. I have committed to tie all the flies for the trip. I have never fished this area before–closest I’ve come is the Bighorn. Living in Tennessee I have no local knowledge. Rivers we could be fishing include the Elk’s Fork, the Boulder/Greybull and the Southfork/Yellowstone. Any ideas on fly patterns we will need that time of year. Thanks in advance for any info.
Hi Terry, You will need a good selection of Adams Parachute, Humpies, Wulffs, EHC, Bead Heads, Stimulators, and many, many Grass Hoppers. #6 or 8 on the hoppers and #12 and smaller on the others. Also be sure to have a pattern to immitate PMD’s and BWO’s. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
I bought "Fly Pattens of Yellowstoe " by Craig Mathews and John Juracek last year. This is execellent fly pattern book for Yellowstone National Park area. Kiyo Shirataki
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » ?? Grande Ronde??
I am interested in fishing the Grande Ronde (S.E. Wash.),has anyone out there have info ? Thanks L.H.
I am interested in fishing the Grande Ronde (S.E. Wash.),has anyone out there have info ? Thanks L.H.
My friend, Chris Pasley fishes it every year. He fishes October and March. He uses #8 October Caddis dries in the fall. In the spring he uses bright attractor flies. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » fishing in Nepal
I have the good fortune of going to Nepal in November and December of this year, and want to know if anyone has any details on fishing, particularly fly-fishing, there. I will be going into the backcountry in the Annapurna, Everest and Terai areas, and would like to know if anyone has fished in the rivers that you proceed along while walking or driving. Also, I know the English used to fish for machir in the larger lakes in this region and would also like information on that. In particular, hints on what to bring, what to use, and where to fish are most useful, but anything is greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Gordon
I have the good fortune of going to Nepal in November and December of this year, and want to know if anyone has any details on fishing, particularly fly-fishing, there.
You might also try posting your query to rec.climbing or maybe rec.backcountry, as there are lots of folks in those groups who have traveled in Nepal. — -Wayne Trzyna