Question:

Danke. Any in striking distance of Portland (left coast)?

Response:

Danke. Any in striking distance of Portland (left coast)?

There will be for sure if you decide to host one. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Great responses, all. Wunnerfully creative minds at work (??) here. Now, anyone care to answer the original question itself? Thanks!

Response:

Great responses, all. Wunnerfully creative minds at work (??) here. Now, anyone care to answer the original question itself? Thanks!

I did sort of.   Conclave – 1. a private meeting.  2a. the assembly of cardinals for the election of a pope.   2b. the meeting place for the conclave. (Hint:  It ain’t meaning #2) Now the new definition, a ROFFian meeting of assorted reprobates, alocholics, and womanizers in a location near water known to hold trout. HTH Peter

Response:

"Clave" is an abbreviation of "Conclave", which is usually taken to mean the gathering of cardinals who assemble to elect a new pope. It also means any closed gathering. As far as ROFF is concerned, a clave is a get together where hopefully fun is had by all, and some fishing is done. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

I’m leaning toward the Spring Creek because it’s a DT line, so you get two lines for price of one. Anyone here used a Spring Creek?

I have a Spring Creek in DT5. My only complaint is it has a lot of memory and so coils up worse than most. It’s relatively old though, ‘93 I think, so perhaps Orvis has improved that since then. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Since I am in Kansas <g, the season is closed in WI, and just because I like you, email your snail address to me and I’ll ship you my 2 wt to try out, then you can ship it back to me.

Excellent ! Did you make it to Crane Creek last weekend ? You know, trip reports are mandatory in January. Thanks, Wayne. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… SA still makes the Ultra 3 in a buckskin (like the one I sent you.)  Keep them in mind.

I assume it’s a 2wt, is it a WF or a DT ? I’ve never had it off the spool, I’ll have to give it a try. You are right about the long front taper not being appropriate for close in work. You know some of the places where I want to fish with the 2 & 3 wt and there’s rarely a time when you have more than 20′-25′ of line out. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ?

My favorite rod/line combo is the Sage 484-3 SPL with the 4 wt. Quiet Taper line. With this combo I can cast all of the line easily, and indeed roll cast most of the line! I find it fishes in close well also. The other added advantage to this thinner line is a very quiet presentation, very important for places like Washington’s Rocky Ford creek or Wyoming’s Flat Creek where delicacy is a must. I think the main key is matching it with the rod you are fishing. The SPL series are medium action rods and these are the rods Sage designed the lines to match. Cheers, Ian McAllister Rodworks Seattle, WA Before you buy.

Response:

I assume it’s a 2wt, is it a WF or a DT ? I’ve never had it off the spool, I’ll have to give it a try. You are right about the long front taper not being appropriate for close in work. You know some of the places where I want to fish with the 2 & 3 wt and there’s rarely a time when you have more than 20′-25′ of line out. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken It’s a DT-2-F Mastery Ultra 3 with something like a 7′ front taper. That’s the line I used routinely on that rod and it short casted just fine. Peter Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

Response:

That’s the line I used routinely on that rod and it short casted just fine.

And a short cast for you is what, 100′<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

Ken I don’t know about the Quiet Tapers but the Clear Creeks aren’t a close in type of line.  Did some checking a while back and the front taper is quite long.  SA still makes the Ultra 3 in a buckskin (like the one I sent you.)  Keep them in mind. Peter

Response:

I like the Clear Creeks for the long thin front taper but also have some performance issues and wear issues with them.  In looking around, the two other lines I came up with that have a similar long, thin front taper are the Sage Quiet Taper and the Orvis Spring Creek. I’m leaning toward the Spring Creek because it’s a DT line, so you get two lines for price of one. Anyone here used a Spring Creek? PS I don’t think any conventional line with this type of front taper is going to be very good at roll casts. Their strength will be a delicate presentation with a sacrifice in casting performance. A silk line was recommended to me as probably the ideal for delicate presentation while still having good casting performance.  Since they float in a different manner than conventional lines, a silk line in an equal weight is much thinner than a conventional line. I’m hard on my equipment and know I would never do the maintance necessary with a silk line. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

writes: Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ?

It works as advertised with the Sage SPL rods. I get good distance and good presentation with mine. Since I am in Kansas <g, the season is closed in WI, and just because I like you, email your snail address to me and I’ll ship you my 2 wt to try out, then you can ship it back to me. Wayne Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

The quiet taper lines are recommended for the SPL series as they were designed around the taper of that rod.  Also, the lines only come in weight forward,  Try a DT line. Regards, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have experience with or observations about Sage Quiet Taper Fly Lines ? I currently have Cortland Clear Creeks on my 2 & 3 wts and I’m not real happy with them. It’s catalog season in the great white north and in perusing the catalogs these sound nice for close, delicate casting and they couldn’t possibly roll cast any worse than a Clear Creek. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

oooooowowee, Ken, I guess Dave Whitlock had a lot to do with designing the Sage Quite Taper lines for the new ultra light/soft Sage SPL series. I heard that they designed the line first and then worked on the rods. I guess it has a special core and is tapered to preform best at 10 to 30 feet? I think the Sage ‘Quiet Taper’ and the Mastery ‘XPS’ DT  are the top choices around our shop for short casting for trout? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had mentioned that I wasn’t real happy with the Cortland Clear Creek Taper for fishing in close, less than 30-35 ft., and was wondering if the Sage Quiet Taper might be a better choice for fishing in close with light rods. ROFF’s ultimate gear whore just happened to have a Sage Quiet Taper WF2 already rigged up on an Orvis CFO 1, beautiful little reel BTW, and he sent it along via snail mail for me to try. Thanks, Wayne. I put it on the Peter Charles 1 wt and walked across the street to the retention pond with Kipper the hound to test it out. Cutting right to the chase, I couldn’t tell much difference between the Clear Creek Taper and the Quiet Taper in WF2. Both seem to have long, fine front tapers that would be nice and delicate at 35-40 ft but don’t load a 1 wt very well at less than 30 ft. Forget roll casting. The small mountain streams of western North Carolina require short casts and roll casts more often than long, delicate spring creek type casts. I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. Speaking of the ice, it is really quite refreshing to do something incredibly stupid and have a good long belly laugh at yourself. After testing the two lines for in close casting I decided to see how far I could cast. My back cast hit the chain link fence of the tennis court at about 45 ft or so. Now a person with an IQ bigger than his shoe size would have just moved to the other side of the pond away from the tennis court. Not your dumb ass correspondent, no I decided the thing to do was to step out onto the ice a few feet. You ever seen a hound dog laugh ? Kipper the hound looked at me like he’d be forever embarrassed to be associated with such a stupid dog, and he was right. But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing. That was the end of the casting comparison, I was wet, the hound was dry and we hurried back across the street so that the dumber of the two could dry off. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Let’s see… the 3dt mastery is on a Winston Perfect, the 3dt courtland 444 is on a Princess the 3/4 tt is on the TR1 the 3wf mastery is on a golden JLH,   the 3wf spring creek is on a LP1.5,,, the 3dt silk is on a St. George Nope sorry no more CFO I’s in the bin <g, in a fit of lust for some new cane I sold my CFO 123 to Peter, cheaply I might add. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

I thought I was a gear whore. Now it appears I am just a gear whore in training. Big Dale – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice.

You got one laying around or do you want me to mail you one of those too? <g But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing.

Great little story, thanks. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

(gear report and self-inflicted casualty report snipped) LOL, Forty.  I’m sure the hound had a good laugh. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. You got one laying around or do you want me to mail you one of those too? <g

Peter sent one, but I don’t have it rigged up. You could send another one of those beautiful little Orvis CFO’s if you want. Great little story, thanks.

Thanks, … I think. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

writes: Peter sent one, but I don’t have it rigged up. You could send another one of those beautiful little Orvis CFO’s if you want.

Let’s see… the 3dt mastery is on a Winston Perfect, the 3dt courtland 444 is on a Princess the 3/4 tt is on the TR1 the 3wf mastery is on a golden JLH,   the 3wf spring creek is on a LP1.5,,, the 3dt silk is on a St. George Nope sorry no more CFO I’s in the bin <g, in a fit of lust for some new cane I sold my CFO 123 to Peter, cheaply I might add. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

I had mentioned that I wasn’t real happy with the Cortland Clear Creek Taper for fishing in close, less than 30-35 ft., and was wondering if the Sage Quiet Taper might be a better choice for fishing in close with light rods. ROFF’s ultimate gear whore just happened to have a Sage Quiet Taper WF2 already rigged up on an Orvis CFO 1, beautiful little reel BTW, and he sent it along via snail mail for me to try. Thanks, Wayne. I put it on the Peter Charles 1 wt and walked across the street to the retention pond with Kipper the hound to test it out. Cutting right to the chase, I couldn’t tell much difference between the Clear Creek Taper and the Quiet Taper in WF2. Both seem to have long, fine front tapers that would be nice and delicate at 35-40 ft but don’t load a 1 wt very well at less than 30 ft. Forget roll casting. The small mountain streams of western North Carolina require short casts and roll casts more often than long, delicate spring creek type casts. I’ll take Peter’s advice and rig up the SA Ultra 3 for a test cast on the ice. Speaking of the ice, it is really quite refreshing to do something incredibly stupid and have a good long belly laugh at yourself. After testing the two lines for in close casting I decided to see how far I could cast. My back cast hit the chain link fence of the tennis court at about 45 ft or so. Now a person with an IQ bigger than his shoe size would have just moved to the other side of the pond away from the tennis court. Not your dumb ass correspondent, no I decided the thing to do was to step out onto the ice a few feet. You ever seen a hound dog laugh ? Kipper the hound looked at me like he’d be forever embarrassed to be associated with such a stupid dog, and he was right. But what the hell, if you survive it, doing something stupid now and then can be sort of amusing. That was the end of the casting comparison, I was wet, the hound was dry and we hurried back across the street so that the dumber of the two could dry off. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup. Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter.

He said ‘newsgroup’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter.

as does alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup…

- Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well…. Tony Ritter Narrowsburg, New York

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup. Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter. He said ‘newsgroup’<g.

Ouch! That’s gonna leave a mark…

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup… – Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well….

Send ‘em to George. He could use the company…

Response:

Wayne reprimands in message: Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup… – Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile. – Oh well…. Tony Ritter Narrowsburg, New York

        post or die, yankee devil! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – post or die, yankee devil! wayno

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there!

Ever seen Basic Instinct?  Michael Douglas called her "the fuck of the century".  And he get’s around, from what I hear. — Levi Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.                                                         — Dave Barry

Response:

Forget it Wayno!  You wouldn’t like her.  She just lays there!

        in a display of courage that has been a lifetime hallmark, i am willing to give her a shot. wayno

Response:

– Hmmmm….. and *I* was thinking about sending a few photos of Sharon Stone on the Upper Delaware River on a hot muggy August afternoon when the mercury hit 95 wearing a *wet* ROFF t-shirt and a big smile.

What, who, huh? BTW, I once mistakenly looked up www.teeny.com thinking it was Jim Teeny’s web site.  For the record, it’s www.teeny-nymph.com. Mu

Response:

Mu Young Lee sets us straight: What, who, huh? BTW, I once mistakenly looked up www.teeny.com thinking it was Jim Teeny’s web site.  For the record, it’s www.teeny-nymph.com.

- Which shouldn’t be confused with: alt.teeny.nymphs 8)* – Sorry….couldn’t resist.

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup.  Ask any who wish to view it to contact you directly and ship it individually.  Some of our members pay per usage on the connection.  If my Queensland buddy in Brisbane gets wind of this he may take a break from "swimming the bar" and hunt you down just for the sport.  Damn near declared ‘roos endangered in parts of Australia because of his over-eagerness! — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Tim, Bad move guy.  PLEASE, never send a picture to a newsgroup.

Huh ? alt.flyfishing accepts binaries in its charter. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My little book is a Yachting reprint dated 1954. "The Best of Darrell McClure." Yeah…But that was when "Yachting" was still worth reading, not the coffee table magazine for yuppie millionaires it has turned into. John

Response:

Yeah, but adding a $1,200 charter bill on top of airfare for four (another $1,200) brings the weekend tariff to $2,500 easy, vs. maybe $150 for towing your baby 300 miles and back.  Hardly the same thing unless you are Bill Gates.  Truth is, when you trailer you do kinda feel like the guys who fly into the Vineyard on a seaplane to meet their captained 90-footers. I too enjoyed cruising local waters for over 15 years.  But then it got a little old.  It’s still fun to zip across the Sound for lunch once in while, or wet a fishing line, but it’s not cruising. Ken

Response:

I don’t run around at anything near full speed 99% of the time, although I hear that sailboats try to do that *all* the time .

*ROTFL* Omygot, David! You’ve got us! flo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have sail-cruised for 25 years  and power-cruised for 10 years.  I wasn’t getting much further from home on my 40 mph stink pot than I was on the rag boat.  You just can’t get all that far in the time most of us have for our hobby.  Plus 40 mph is not a reality once you leave the inner harbor.  I probably spent more time at 10 mph in the power boat than any other speed, which was a fast as I could move her in 3 ft. seas and still keep my kidneys. My solution:  use a trailer to get to the new places.  55 mph is a lot faster than a sailboat can go and 10 mpg in your Suburban is a lot better than the 2 mpg a powerboat gets.  I found trailer boating to be more of a "thing" than either sailing or powering, as far as distinctiveness of experience was concerned.  It’s just a hoot to spend a weekend on your boat in exotic waters 300 miles from home. Ken

Very well said! — Skipper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charming note! But if the truth be known, God probably owns a MacGregor 26X so that he can motor, sail or drift. (Sorry….couldn’t resist that opportunity.) Actually, I’ve always been amused by the division between ragbaggers and stinkpotters. It’s boating and being on and enjoying the water that are important, or should be. I’ve solved the dilemma by having both – a 25′ Bayfield sailboat for peace and pleasure and relaxation and a 25′ Carver powerboat for getting from here to there when I want. Both have their merits and drawbacks. I can’t stand powerboaters who go too damn fast and screw things up and create unreasonable risks for themselves or others. I also can’t stand sailors who put on that air of superiority and pedantry while always seeming to list 10 degrees to port. I think a little mutual appreciation would go a long way and might even help with the never-ending Mac 26X debate. (Sorry again.) Harry

Wow! You are in for it… As soon as Capt Neal (one of nine) reads this you will be in for a good thrashing… Why is it that the level of boating know how seems to be inversely proportional to the size of the boat?

Response:

Charming note! But if the truth be known, God probably owns a MacGregor 26X so that he can motor, sail or drift. (Sorry….couldn’t resist that opportunity.) Actually, I’ve always been amused by the division between ragbaggers and stinkpotters. It’s boating and being on and enjoying the water that are important, or should be. I’ve solved the dilemma by having both – a 25′ Bayfield sailboat for peace and pleasure and relaxation and a 25′ Carver powerboat for getting from here to there when I want. Both have their merits and drawbacks. I can’t stand powerboaters who go too damn fast and screw things up and create unreasonable risks for themselves or others. I also can’t stand sailors who put on that air of superiority and pedantry while always seeming to list 10 degrees to port. I think a little mutual appreciation would go a long way and might even help with the never-ending Mac 26X debate. (Sorry again.) Harry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My hat’s off to an apparent purist. The vast majority of sail boats in our area, based upon observation, spend very little time with their sail up unless a sailboat race is on. Most of them motor from point to point, stopping in between for a little recreational sailing when the wind permits. On a breezy afternoon they do congregate just outside the breakwater and do some sailing as well, but they’re primarily just tacking back and forth within a mile or so of the marina.  Much of our inland type boating involves narrows and channels where a stiff current can develop that would require a sail boat to wait for a slack or alternate tide if not running under power; so perhaps there are other areas where the sail boaters actually spend the majority of the time sailing.

"Majority" might be stretching it, but here in the Great Lakes, we can and do cruise under sail for 8 hour runs if the wind is cooperative.  We’ve covered as much as 120 miles without turning over the engine.  We’ve also had to motor for 12 hours or more when the breeze failed to appear, or worse, when it was from a contrary direction. It will depend greatly on your locale and the routes available, but one can "have the sail up" a reasonable amount of the time.

Response:

I have sail-cruised for 25 years  and power-cruised for 10 years.  I wasn’t getting much further from home on my 40 mph stink pot than I was on the rag boat.  You just can’t get all that far in the time most of us have for our hobby.  Plus 40 mph is not a reality once you leave the inner harbor.  I probably spent more time at 10 mph in the power boat than any other speed, which was a fast as I could move her in 3 ft. seas and still keep my kidneys. My solution:  use a trailer to get to the new places.  55 mph is a lot faster than a sailboat can go and 10 mpg in your Suburban is a lot better than the 2 mpg a powerboat gets.  I found trailer boating to be more of a "thing" than either sailing or powering, as far as distinctiveness of experience was concerned.  It’s just a hoot to spend a weekend on your boat in exotic waters 300 miles from home. Ken

Response:

|Why is it that the level of boating know how seems to be inversely proportional to the size of the boat?| It may be a result of the size and capacity of the brain doing the seeming. Is that another way of saying that small boats can only carry people so small as to have such small brains that only think they are smart enough to come to such a conclusion without missing the important point regarding the presumption that one’s opinion regarding others’ ability vis a vis boating knowhow somehow corresponds to some true vision of the universe? I suppose then that a mosquito on a floating leaf fragment would logically possess most of the boating know how in the world, leaving little for the larger vessels, and of course explains the Exxon Valdise situation, which apparantly still stinks. Terry K Has anyone tried putting a sailboard sail on a wheelchair, then employing teams to propel a four foot ball through a soccer sized goal in competition?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A zillion years ago there was a Darrell McClure cartoon about this very thing. For those of you who don’t remember, Darrell McClure was a regular cartoonist in the Boston Herald. The cartoons were always on boating, and I guess it says something about Boston in those days. They also ran in Yachting. My little book is a Yachting reprint dated 1954. "The Best of Darrell McClure." Anyway, there is John Truesalt (his name is on his seabag) in his bedroom, which is filled with models of grand sailing boats and a bookcase full of sailing books. He is on his knees by his bed obviously in great anguish of soul. The caption says: "Oh Lord — I went cruising in a power boat and I LIKED IT!" Another one has a group of people lounging in the cockpit of a sailboat. The superciliuous twit at the tiller says: "My brother? We don’t mention my brother anymore….. He bought a motor boat."

We Swamp Yankees here in the North East have something similar.  It is a cartoon called Bousquet (pronounced Bos’kay).  It shows a guy in the cockpit of his little sailboat.  The name on the back of the vessel is "Hazard to Navigation II".  Reminded me of a ragbagger I raft with on Block Island. Excuse the plug for my own page, but feel free to visit my page for a couple of ‘toons about us wooden boaters with a link to the cartoonists’ page as well. Dave Carlile Classic Wooden Boats http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/8110

Response:

…  I can’t stand powerboaters who go too damn fast and screw things up and create unreasonable risks for themselves or others. I also can’t stand sailors who put on that air of superiority and pedantry while always seeming to list 10 degrees to port.  …

Know what you mean.  However, it does seem a bit strange coming from someone named Harry.  The other Harry has a much longer list of gripes. You always know when his underwear don’t quite fit correctly. — Skipper

Response:

Why is it that the level of boating know how seems to be inversely proportional to the size of the boat?

Now THAT one I won’t touch with either a 1′ or 10′ boat hook! Harry

Response:

I’ve been cruising on a powerboat, and I too enjoyed it, except for guilt about the thousand gallons plus of fuel we burnt in a long weekend.  But we did cover about five hundred miles of open sea and visit three ports.   I learned a lot too.  If you’re accustomed to navigating a sailing cruiser it can be a shock to you to do complex pilotage at speed. Normally I never bother to plot courses etc. in advance – I don’t get seasick so I can work out courses at the chart table as and when I need them, and in a sailing boat you can never predict the wind.   John Wilson

Response:

John Wilson commented: I’ve been cruising on a powerboat, and I too enjoyed it, except for guilt about the thousand gallons plus of fuel we burnt in a long weekend.  But we did cover about five hundred miles of open sea and visit three ports.   I learned a lot too.  If you’re accustomed to

In other words, "If this is Saturday afternoon this must be Catalina?" Doesn’t sound like a lot of fun. If you spent any time sleeping or actually in the three ports you would have needed to be doing about what, maybe 20 knots?, the rest of the time to cover a 500 mile itinerary in a weekend. Your experience was an odd way to spend time on any boat, not a typical powerboat experience.  Many powerboats operate almost as economically under power as do similar size sailboats. Your skipper must have been fairly wealthy to burn up $1200 worth of fuel for a weekend. Most of us would not be able to afford that. How many people were aboard? A vessel getting half a mile per gallon isn’t all that inefficient if its carrying 40 people and it’s looked at on a per-passenger-mile basis. Mr. Wilson also commented: I learned a lot too.  If you’re accustomed to navigating a sailing cruiser it can be a shock to you to do complex pilotage at speed. Normally I never bother to plot courses etc. in advance – I don’t get seasick so I can work out courses at the chart table as and when I need them, and in a sailing boat you can never predict the wind.  

My hat’s off to an apparent purist. The vast majority of sail boats in our area, based upon observation, spend very little time with their sail up unless a sailboat race is on. Most of them motor from point to point, stopping in between for a little recreational sailing when the wind permits. On a breezy afternoon they do congregate just outside the breakwater and do some sailing as well, but they’re primarily just tacking back and forth within a mile or so of the marina.  Much of our inland type boating involves narrows and channels where a stiff current can develop that would require a sail boat to wait for a slack or alternate tide if not running under power; so perhaps there are other areas where the sail boaters actually spend the majority of the time sailing.

Response:

Sail vs. Power. It would be nice to think that the law of Equal Stupidity applies here; or that 1. The number of sailboaters with the ‘nose in the air self-righteous disdain’ for power boaters is a small but vocal and noticable contingent of an otherwise decent group of people and….. 2. The number of powerboaters who charge around way too fast and clueless (annoying a lot of other powerboaters with their antics as well) is also a small but noticable contingent of an otherwise decent group of people. Anytime we make a judgement about another boater’s attitudes, skills, or human worthiness based upon the motive power of his/her vessel or (dare I say it?) the brand name thereon we lose an opportunity to perhaps get to know somebody who would make a postive contribution to life.  Human nature is just that however, human and natural, and we will probably react emotionally and contribute to be discriminatory in our attitudes, rather than be compelled by intelligence and logic to go through the extra work of making our judgements one at a time based upon observed behaviors. More’s the pity.

Response:

        …My little book is a Yachting reprint dated 1954. "The Best         of Darrell McClure."… So that’s where that cartoon came from. I saw it many many years ago, and in fact I had just gone on a powerboat cruise (up Hudson River, Lake Champlain, canals almost to Montreal) and I did enjoy it, and it did cause considerable anguish of soul. But I got over it. Meanwhile I’ll keep a weather eye for the book. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Response:

A zillion years ago there was a Darrell McClure cartoon about this very thing. For those of you who don’t remember, Darrell McClure was a regular cartoonist in the Boston Herald. The cartoons were always on boating, and I guess it says something about Boston in those days. They also ran in Yachting. My little book is a Yachting reprint dated 1954. "The Best of Darrell McClure." Anyway, there is John Truesalt (his name is on his seabag) in his bedroom, which is filled with models of grand sailing boats and a bookcase full of sailing books. He is on his knees by his bed obviously in great anguish of soul. The caption says: "Oh Lord — I went cruising in a power boat and I LIKED IT!" Another one has a group of people lounging in the cockpit of a sailboat. The superciliuous twit at the tiller says: "My brother? We don’t mention my brother anymore….. He bought a motor boat."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Received the following message from a fellow boater.  Will protect the authors anonymity but the tale and his honest, self-effacing writing style are just too good not to share. Hope a positive response to his tale will prompt additional posts from this author.   I live on the British Columbian Gulf Islands.  After 7 years of sailing (and I loved my little Catalina 27) I’d been everywhere, man. At least everywhere I could get in a weekend at 6 knots (in a gale) or motoring. An honest sailor in coastal waters will tell you he motors 50% of the time anyway. Spring and fall I spent my sailing days in full rain gear and boots.  Summers the wind rarely blew.  There seems to be a certain eleteism in the sailing fraternity… now I’m not sure why.  In my sailing days I knew that God was a Sailor. My revelation, after the sailboat had to go (divorce), was that my bliss was linked to experiences on the water and had little to do with the conveyance.

Exactly. I like to go out on the water, period, and spend most of my time actually not moving, rather than blasting around upsetting sailboats (as some people would have it). What galls me most are the smug self-righteous types who put down powerboat owners as "people who are more interested in the destination than the journey". I took up boating precisely *because* I wasn’t interested in going anywhere fast (I sold my airplane to buy my boat). I don’t run around at anything near full speed 99% of the time, although I hear that sailboats try to do that *all* the time . And now the sailboaters, claiming the moral high ground as always, may end up being the only ones left in California legally allowed to use their two-stroke engines to pollute lakes and reservoirs. Figures. I bet the guy writing that bill owns a sailboat. — David (Dragon) Fiedler, Infobahn Warrior, Bf.D, CRS, ONS Find me at http://www.innercite.com/~dragon/ Please change "nospam" in my header address to "david" in order to reply. ** Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,

Question:

One approach, although rather unconventional, would be to turn down all the cork handles on all your rods. Then take a meat cleaver and cut off your fingers at the first digit.  This should make the turn-downed handles work fine. Of course, you’ll have to re-learn the art of tying the fly to tippet. For a professional job, I think you’re going to have to remove the guides. Unless you don’t mind wrapping the handle with the fisherman’s friend, masking tape. Good luck.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

Allen, You could remove the remaining cork and the wraps for the winding check. Move the winding check up the shaft (out of the way). Then add new corks rings that have been cut in half. Don’t align all the cuts in-a-line from ring to ring. Turn to the rough final shape and patch the cut marks. If done correctly – the cuts will looksomewhat  like the normal filled-in marks on a cork grip. Then sand to the final shape. Move the winding check back and rewrap. Don Burns Wishful collector of Gillums and Dickersons – Owner of Montague, H-I and Heddons

Response:

  Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   One approach, although rather unconventional, would be to turn down all   the cork handles on all your rods. Then take a meat cleaver and cut off   your fingers at the first digit.  This should make the turn-downed handles   work fine. Of course, you’ll have to re-learn the art of tying the fly to   tippet.

You _CLEARLY_ win the "tip of the month" for this one.  I’m still laughing. Can’t think of an appropriate prize… maybe a knife sharpener. 3 Cheers,         -tony — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod.

Possibly mountain bike handlebar wrap or noeprene strips.  not classy but potentially light and very comfortable. See next weeks SPAM: "NeoGrip !! Revolutionary Grip Material" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

When my daughter was rather small, I turned down the handle of a rod to fit her hand. I assumed that I would sell the rod or pass it on to another small child when she outgrew it. She’s bigger now, and before I give the rod up, I would like to find out whether anyone has successfully added material to a cork handle. I don’t want to get into removing all the guides, which is the only way I know to get new cork onto a rod. Any ideas? Thanks, Allen

This may be a silly idea, and may not work at all, but then again, , If you have a decent bicycle shop in town, stop on by and check out their selection of handlebar tape. There is at least one decent quality natural cork tape out there, and a wrap of that might just do the trick. Worth lookin into anyway. luv chipper

Response:

Question:

I recently broke the fly rod that I grew up fishing – an 8 ft 8 wt fiberglass Shakespeare.  I need to replace it and want a rod that I will not "out grow".  I have considered an L.L. Bean guide series 9 ft, 7 or 8 wt at about $200 with a lifetime unconditional guarantee.  I also saw a 9 ft 8 wt Loomis IMX recently for $275 on a close-out.  The Loomis cast very nicely.  I have not felt the Bean rod but have always been very happy with their products. Any advice would be appreciated.  How much better is the Loomis & is it worth the extra money?  Has anyone used the Bean rod? I grew up fishing for pickerel and bass in Delaware, but I primarily fish for Steelhead and smallmouth bass since moving to California and would like to do some Shad fishing.

Response:

Check out the St. Croix Products I Think For your money they rate up their with poles hundreds of $ more. — Larry D. Madison Life without Black would surely make White blind You. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently broke the fly rod that I grew up fishing – an 8 ft 8 wt fiberglass Shakespeare.  I need to replace it and want a rod that I will not "out grow".  I have considered an L.L. Bean guide series 9 ft, 7 or 8 wt at about $200 with a lifetime unconditional guarantee.  I also saw a 9 ft 8 wt Loomis IMX recently for $275 on a close-out.  The Loomis cast very nicely.  I have not felt the Bean rod but have always been very happy with their products. Any advice would be appreciated.  How much better is the Loomis & is it worth the extra money?  Has anyone used the Bean rod? I grew up fishing for pickerel and bass in Delaware, but I primarily fish for Steelhead and smallmouth bass since moving to California and would like to do some Shad fishing.

Response:

Question:

Every time I drive from TN to NC, I look down at the Piegon River near the border by the Waterville exit.  I remember hearing that most the fish left the river due to the discharges of the Canton paper mill in Canton, NC.  Now that the mill has cleaned up it’s discharge, does anyone know if the river supports any fish? If so, do you know what patters work in this area? Thanks in advance. Steve

The Pigeon River is still on Tennessee’s (ever-growing) list of places you shouldn’t eat fish from.  I’m not sure if fishing is allowed, or if you have to catch and release, or if it’s one of Tennessee’s areas that you’d just be better off not eating fish from (kind of like the Clinch River from Oak Ridge down to five miles below where it enters the Tennessee…)   The problem is that the dioxin discharged from Canton accumulated in the sediments that the insects live in and eat.  So the trout there very efficiently concentrate this dioxin by eating lots of insects. I understand Tennessee is trying to get the river dredged out and cleaned up, but naturally the North Carolina government doesn’t care to hurt its people’s jobs for a fishing stream 45 miles away.  Looks like another drawn-out Superfund kind of battle, with not much chance of a clean-up in sight. I think I remember the warning/prohibition lasts all the way downstream to Douglas Lake. Hope this helps.         Pat

Response:

Every time I drive from TN to NC, I look down at the Piegon River near the border by the Waterville exit.  I remember hearing that most the fish left the river due to the discharges of the Canton paper mill in Canton, NC.  Now that the mill has cleaned up it’s discharge, does anyone know if the river supports any fish? If so, do you know what patters work in this area? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

The Dioxin Dry fly pattern works best.  It’s a three headed fly best fished with care  not to touch the fly, line, rod or water.  I agree the river is beautiful, but 30-40 years of uncontrolled pollution does not clean up in one year. The only people Champion Paper company is fooling are fools who are suckered into their commercials on TV.  If your truly interested in fishing the area for trout write me at:  Phil –    

Response:

The Dioxin Dry fly pattern works best.  It’s a three headed fly best fished with care  not to touch the fly, line, rod or water.  I agree the river is beautiful, but 30-40 years of uncontrolled pollution does not clean up in one year. The only people Champion Paper company is fooling are fools who are suckered into their commercials on TV.  If your truly interested in fishing the area for trout write me at:  Phil –    

 I thought it was more than 30-40…didn’t they open the mill in 1908?   Just curious. *                                                                       * *                                                                       * *  ENTOMOLOGIST          ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR        ALL-AROUND NUT * *                  _____/  O                                           * *                                  |                    |               * *                                  |                    |               * *                                  |                 _/ _/            * *                               _/ _/                                 *

Response:

Question:

I am new at this art, So I recived a gift of a 8′ # 7 rod with reel. Set up with a flouting line. I have a small pond near home that is stocked with browns and brook trout.  Is this setup to heavy and if not what type of fly should I get (buy) or should I get a lighter tackle. I need some advise. oh! I also took a class on casting a year ago so I think I now how to hold the rod and get a cast off.

Response:

I am new at this art, So I recived a gift of a 8′ # 7 rod with reel. Set up with a flouting line. I have a small pond near home that is stocked with browns and brook trout.  Is this setup to heavy and if not what type of fly should I get (buy) or should I get a lighter tackle.

This is only an opinion of course, but I think a 7wt is heavy for trout. an 8′/7w might be great for bass – I’d even use it for schoolie striper fishing (if it was another foot longer). I have to believe an 8′ 7wt must feel a bit on the "clubby" side… If you haven’t used this rod/reel yet, perhaps you might be able to exchange it for a more "troutie" rod? I’d go for a 9′/5wt as an all-rounder trout/panfish rod myself… /dave (who caught and released 29 rainbow clones on a single Gray Ghost this         afternoon. The shredded remains were retired with full honors…;^) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new at this art, So I recived a gift of a 8′ # 7 rod with reel. Set up with a flouting line. I have a small pond near home that is stocked with browns and brook trout.  Is this setup to heavy and if not what type of fly should I get (buy) or should I get a lighter tackle. This is only an opinion of course, but I think a 7wt is heavy for trout. an 8′/7w might be great for bass – I’d even use it for schoolie striper fishing (if it was another foot longer). I have to believe an 8′ 7wt must feel a bit on the "clubby" side… If you haven’t used this rod/reel yet, perhaps you might be able to exchange it for a more "troutie" rod? I’d go for a 9′/5wt as an all-rounder trout/panfish rod myself… /dave (who caught and released 29 rainbow clones on a single Gray Ghost this         afternoon. The shredded remains were retired with full honors…;^)

My first fly rod was a 7 wt also.  I used it for a season or so until I was sure I wanted to persue the sport (duh?).  Then I saved up and got a nice 5 wt.  The 7 wt is now my spare, and I haven’t used it since, although like Dave says, it would make a good bass rod, but I’d rather fish for trout.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

Response:

I am new at this art, So I recived a gift of a 8′ # 7 rod with reel. Set up with a flouting line. I have a small pond near home that is stocked with browns and brook trout.  Is this setup to heavy and if not what type of fly should I get (buy) or should I get a lighter tackle. I need some advise. oh! I also took a class on casting a year ago so I think I now how to hold the rod and get a cast off.

Go out right now and build an addition on to your house to store all your fishing equipment that you will eventually buy. I can’t afford to purchase all the rods that I would like to have.. But I have a great time with ones I have.. I fished with an 8wt for 15 years till I broke it just this past spring. I caught everything on that rod. from Trout on up to chinook salmon. I actually wore out a pfluger reel. So I guess what i’m saying is that the 7wt you have is fine for fishing on just about any waters in the US. Of course who wouldn’t want a nice little 9′ 5wt for going after trout, or maybe a 9′ 1wt for eastern brook trout or farm pond bluegill.. I’ve only purchased three rods in my lifetime. My first 8wt.. my new 7wt.. and then a powerhouse of a rod a 9.5′ 10wt. I got a tuna on the 10wt just last september. But I sincerly believe that the 8wt could have handled it with a large enough spool capacity. Anyway, thats my story.. and I’m sticking to it.. keg

Response:

Dave, There are lots of differences in fly rods. It’s hard to say that a 8′ 7 weight rod is definitely too big for your conditions.  Athough, I would venture to say that most fly fishers would tend to tell you that. Give it try.  If your horseing fish out of your pond as if your holding a broom stick, you might consider something smaller.  Contrary to poplular believe, you don’t have to spend a small fortune on a fly rod that will give you many hours of enjoyment. Dave Burks, Loveland, CO.

Response:

Question:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Response:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Yes.  Try "long-lining" a straight gold/black rapala in the late evening and night.  Troll shallow and at medium speeds with an electric. This is how we used to fish this lake, and at times this produced extremely nice walleyes. -tgades

Response:

Any hints/shops people can recommend for an end of August trip to 10Mile Lake near Hackensack MN? I’m bringing both fly-fishing & baitcasting gear in the hopes of catching my first walleye. mike chin

Talk to the folks in Reeds Sporting Goods in Walker, Mn. they should know where the walleyes are biting.  Never caught one on a fly though.

Response:

Question:

: Recently I have begun to do some offshore racing outside the San Francisco Bay  and I now need to buy my own offshore harness.  I’ve been advised that a : a self-inflating harness is the best way to go. : However, I work the foredeck. : Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them : to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled : in with other wet gear for a period of time. I’ve used the belt inflated life jacket for about 3 years now.  Normal maintanence requires that you inflate them once a year at least.  If you do that the unit will not inflate until it is under water for a time. If you don’t inflate it regularly it may more may not inflate when you need it.  The CO2 cartrage will discharge over time so you want to replace it yearly to be on the safe side.  If you inflat it put it under water to check for leaks.  A unit that isn’t repack once in a while will be more likely to be holed. I’d say get you’re own equipment.  Also look at the line that connects the harness to the boat.  You may want different lengths for different boats. I’m currently running my jack line from the cochpit around the babystay and back.  This way I can walk around the mast and back if I don’t like the seas on the low side etc.  As this line floats up I can run a very short line.  If I have crew up there on the foredeck helping I need more line. I find line length effects productivity up there.  A short line that is long enough to do the job doesn’t get tangled, stepped on or removed because it’s in the way.  You can make a long line short by splicing your own end and feeding a bunge cord through it. For fore deck work I would recomend getting very creative with this jack line.  If you don’t you will find yourself up there removing it to untangle yourself etc. As for the clip for a jack line they put some pretty user unfreindly line connectors on some of the harness.  I’m devided as they must have a reason but I end up using carbeners because they are easy to work with going in and out of the cabin.  Basicly if I don’t have to think about it I find I connect myself.  If I have to fiddle with it I catch myself unconnected. Another thing to look at on a harness is storage.  I know this sounds strange but the ‘right’ place to put a wistle and a water prouf flash light is on the harness.  It’s been measured that you can blow a wistle in cold water when you can’t yell to flag another boat down. I have the personel strobes but the helogen flash lights (small ones using the AA batteries) can be pointed right at the boat you’re trying to flag down.  These little guys are bright and last a good long time. I also have more faith in a light I’m using often to one that is stored and never used but to test.  Tests don’t give you a feel for the battery life etc. As a fordeck person I hope you know never to go up there without a good sharp knife.  This could save your life someday if you ever get wrapped. I started doing this years ago never needed it but if it’s blowing hard you may not be able to communicate you’re arm being broken to the guy behind you. — AST Research Inc.          (714) 727-8669

Response:

In practice it’s actually very rare for foredeck crew to be "hooked in" while working the foredeck of a competitive race boat. They hook in while sitting on the rail or trimming, but being tethered during a jibe or sail change would be problematic. *Some* crew hook in during these maneuvers at night, but this is rare, in my experience. Even singlehanded, it took practice to learn how to jibe the spinnaker while hooked in. For a full crew to jibe an ocean racer with all their tethers attached would be chaos.   Your first defense against being lost overboard (after holding on tight, that is) is a good life jacket and a personal strobe and whistle. Maybe a backup waterproof flashlight, too. I’m very strict about wearing this equipment offshore. The harness, in the vast majority of weather conditions you’ll encounter off the coast, is going to be far too encumbering to allow you to race the boat effectively. I have an old North vest which I love because it has nice deep pockets for the strobe and other stuff (and it served well when I survived a sinking, the Bird boat FALCON in 1989 Master Mariners, in the middle of SF Bay). If I were shopping for a new lifejacket I’d probably favor one of the Stearns fishing models, because of the multiple pockets, and the high degree of freedom of motion they offer. Having said that, you still need a harness for the times that the weather is *really* bad, and especially for the long time intervals between maneuvers when there’s no efficiency lost by being hooked on. So my preference is for a single-purpose shoulder harness, of a fairly simple design that can be sorted out and put on in the dark while you hold on with the other hand. It’s important that the tether have good, oversized (expensive) shackles at *both* ends, so if you find yourself tangled in something you can re-lead from your end. Also consider using some nylon rope instead of the webbing for the tether. A cleat hitch around the nearest cleat is generally more reliable than a carbiner through a pad eye, and you can adjust the length of the teather to be no longer than what you really need. BTW I don’t think much of caribiners for this application, because they have to be closed to develop full strength. (my tether has a very large torsion-spring gate-type snap hook on the far end, and an equally oversize "fly-away" type spinnaker sheet shackle (about what you’d find on a 40′ boat) at my end.                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Response:

Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled in with other wet gear for a period of time.

My experience is that on a long wet trip e.g. sailing from Hawaii back to California, the self-inflating life jackets always trigger. My suboptimal solution has been to remove the self inflating cap, spring, and tablet, but leave the CO2 cartridge and the manual trigger pull tab. Stan Honey San Francisco

Response:

|   | Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them | to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled | in with other wet gear for a period of time. |   | My experience is that on a long wet trip e.g. sailing from Hawaii | back to California, the self-inflating life jackets always trigger. | My suboptimal solution has been to remove the self inflating cap, | spring, and tablet, but leave the CO2 cartridge and the manual trigger | pull tab. On the other hand, my experience with a Crewsaver, Crewfit lifejacket is that it has never inflated when I haven’t wanted it to, and has inflated when needed.  I have been out in conditions when I would have expected it to trigger and it hasn’t. I suspect that the tendency to trigger "accidently" depends on the particular lifejacket.  The self inflating capsule on the Crewsaver is well protected by the folded lifejacket and this may not be the case in other designs. Marion Edwards

Response:

Recently I have begun to do some offshore racing outside the San Francisco Bay  and I now need to buy my own offshore harness.  I’ve been advised that a a self-inflating harness is the best way to go. However, I work the foredeck. Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled in with other wet gear for a period of time. I would appreciate anyone else’s feedback and experience on this before I spend some money. Thanks for the help, Allison Serventi

Response: