Question:

Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk

Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat

comes

Response:

Sorry Pierre, a few days after that post, I did some major rework of our page. Try going to http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/flyfile.htm The Mountain Midge is listed in the link for September 1996-August 1997. The Johnson Midge is listed in the link for September 1999-August 2000.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Tim will do that however my server cannot access what you sent me. I have heard of the Palomino midge and have had some success with it. I will try again. Thanks and will let ya know if I am ever in the neighborhood Pierre Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes

Response:

Thanks for the info Tim will do that however my server cannot access what you sent me. I have heard of the Palomino midge and have had some success with it. I will try again. Thanks and will let ya know if I am ever in the neighborhood Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Pierre: The pattern I like to use is one of my own. It is called a Mountain Midge, and the recipe is found at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom11.htm It really is an excellent fly. Vic Bergman has demonstrated it at a few tying demonstrations, and it works very well when fished subsurface about 18 or 24" below a yarn indicator or dry fly indicator. Other midge pattens I use are the Griffith’s Gnat for dries.  I also use a pupal emerger pattern that sits in the water film (but I forget its name) and I also like the Palomino Midge. We recently posted another midge pattern called the Johnson Midge that I have had tremndouse success with. It can be seen at http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom44.htm I used to have a really hard time fishing with tiny midges. I learned how to tie on a very light yarn indicator to the tippet using a couple of loops in the tippet, and this has helped a lot. The yarn, and it doesn’t take a lot, really helps detect strikes, and it lands and sits on the water without disturbing the fish. By the way, the URLs I am posting are from our web site on fly fishing southwestern Alberta. We have a number of fly patterns posted for our area. Also, feel free to drop me an email next time you come to the Crow. I live in Lethbridge, and could meet you out there. I prefer to fish during the middle of the week this time of year, as there are generally fewer people. There isn’t a lot of open water in the area, and it can get crowded on weekends. Tim Lysyk Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes

Response:

I’ve hard a hard time getting out lately. I’ve either been too busy at work, or the weather has been crappy. Also, I teach a University course on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I can’t go either of those days. This past week the weather had been pretty good, so I was planning to go Wednesday, but snow came. So we changed the trip to Friday. Snow came Thursday night. We had pretty much had it by then, and said the hell with it, let’s go anyway. Friday turned out to be a pretty nice after all. We made the drive out out early. The Crowsnest is the one of two rivers opent this time of the year in my area. It is one of my favorite streams, so that is where we went. Stopped in at the local fly shop for coffee, some BS, and, oh yeah…had to buy new licences. We finally made it out to the water, and it seemed to be getting a little busy. One guy as upstream ahead of us. We start to fish at a pool to let him move upstream. Upstream guy’s buddy comes out of the woods behind us, and crashes through the bush ahead of us to join his pal. A little later, two other guys and theri dogs show up right behind us. Upstream guy and his buddy keep coming back downstream, then upstream.  This is getting on my nerves, and no one is catching anything, so we move farther upstream to some secluded pools I know. On the way there, we pass another couple of guys working their way downstream. They haven’t caught anything, so we keep going upstream to the pools I like. We fish there for a few minutes, when the the guys who were moving downstream come moving back upstream again. Fortunately, they keep going right past us, and they are the last people we see for the rest of the day. I fish a few pools and move upstream, and start to notice some midges in the air, so I move back downstream to where my fishing buddy is. He has seen some trout rises. I see a few too…but they are the ‘tail fin in the air" rises. You know these rises, they are the fish equivalent of giving you the finger because the fish are really hard to catch when they are doing this. However, I know the secret. It is called a Mountain Midge (my own pattern) tied about 18 – 24 below a yarn indicator. I let one drift downstream into the pool, and bingo…rainbow on. Nice fish. About 16", olive, with nice red sides. I catch a couple more, then I decide to get out of my friend’s way. I move upstream to a riffle and hook and land fish regularly. We take turns fishing the main pool and the riffle, and do pretty well. My friend hasn’t been fishing a lot the past number of years, and he keeps hooking fish, but can’t seem to land them. Fortunately, he doesn’t seem to really care. The weather actually had turned out pretty good, high of about 15 C, but quite windy. I have sunburned my lower arms, from below my elbow down. The sunburn stops where my sleeve was rolled up. I kind of look like a Canadian flag,  two red borders with a white middle. Anyway, we fish until about 4:30 then decide to call it a day. Most of the downstream traffic is long gone. Howver, the guys with dogs are there, and the dogs run up to greet us on the road. Friendly animals, but one of them was the ugliest thing I ever saw. We go back to the shop so my friend can pick up some materials to tie the midge patterns. The drive home was uneventful, but pleasant. All in all, a nice day. I may have to go again in the middle of next week. My classes are over this Tuesday, so this frees up my schedule somewhat. Tim Lysyk

Response:

Hi Tim.     I dont know if I am broaching etiquette here..but as a newbie flytyer and ff’er could you pass on the type of midge that you tied?? I have seen some on the Bow here in Calgary but for the life of me only the Griffiths Gnat comes close and I am afraid that I dont have the technique yet. I would appreciate any help you can give me. By the way I caught a nice 16 inch on a little brown last weekend on the Crow as well.. you are so right when you say it is nice there.. I want to try and explore the river near kanaskis as well this summer Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve hard a hard time getting out lately. I’ve either been too busy at work, or the weather has been crappy. Also, I teach a University course on Tuesdays and Thursdays, so I can’t go either of those days. This past week the weather had been pretty good, so I was planning to go Wednesday, but snow came. So we changed the trip to Friday. Snow came Thursday night. We had pretty much had it by then, and said the hell with it, let’s go anyway. Friday turned out to be a pretty nice after all. We made the drive out out early. The Crowsnest is the one of two rivers opent this time of the year in my area. It is one of my favorite streams, so that is where we went. Stopped in at the local fly shop for coffee, some BS, and, oh yeah…had to buy new licences. We finally made it out to the water, and it seemed to be getting a little busy. One guy as upstream ahead of us. We start to fish at a pool to let him move upstream. Upstream guy’s buddy comes out of the woods behind us, and crashes through the bush ahead of us to join his pal. A little later, two other guys and theri dogs show up right behind us. Upstream guy and his buddy keep coming back downstream, then upstream.  This is getting on my nerves, and no one is catching anything, so we move farther upstream to some secluded pools I know. On the way there, we pass another couple of guys working their way downstream. They haven’t caught anything, so we keep going upstream to the pools I like. We fish there for a few minutes, when the the guys who were moving downstream come moving back upstream again. Fortunately, they keep going right past us, and they are the last people we see for the rest of the day. I fish a few pools and move upstream, and start to notice some midges in the air, so I move back downstream to where my fishing buddy is. He has seen some trout rises. I see a few too…but they are the ‘tail fin in the air" rises. You know these rises, they are the fish equivalent of giving you the finger because the fish are really hard to catch when they are doing this. However, I know the secret. It is called a Mountain Midge (my own pattern) tied about 18 – 24 below a yarn indicator. I let one drift downstream into the pool, and bingo…rainbow on. Nice fish. About 16", olive, with nice red sides. I catch a couple more, then I decide to get out of my friend’s way. I move upstream to a riffle and hook and land fish regularly. We take turns fishing the main pool and the riffle, and do pretty well. My friend hasn’t been fishing a lot the past number of years, and he keeps hooking fish, but can’t seem to land them. Fortunately, he doesn’t seem to really care. The weather actually had turned out pretty good, high of about 15 C, but quite windy. I have sunburned my lower arms, from below my elbow down. The sunburn stops where my sleeve was rolled up. I kind of look like a Canadian flag,  two red borders with a white middle. Anyway, we fish until about 4:30 then decide to call it a day. Most of the downstream traffic is long gone. Howver, the guys with dogs are there, and the dogs run up to greet us on the road. Friendly animals, but one of them was the ugliest thing I ever saw. We go back to the shop so my friend can pick up some materials to tie the midge patterns. The drive home was uneventful, but pleasant. All in all, a nice day. I may have to go again in the middle of next week. My classes are over this Tuesday, so this frees up my schedule somewhat. Tim Lysyk

Response:

Question:

It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…The shop I guide for has a deal with Terry in which we guide anyone who wants to fish there. The fish are too huge to land alone so this is recommended. I have fished there a bunch and can assure you that there is nothing easy about landing a 6 pound Kamloops on a sz. 18 pheasant tail. The fishing is easy- if you use a cork pellet- but if you fish it according to the hatches and the mood of the fish its a damn fun time and a challenge. For a time this year I was nailing them on a sz. 18 sulphur parachute – it’ll make your knees shake watching a 26 inch brown sip down a fly that small. . My personal best was a 15 pound rainbow. I caught her on a sz. 16 beetle, barbless…..My funniest catch was a 20 some odd inch Kamloops that put me into the backing in one long run. It took the fly, turned tail and ran straight at me, jumped chest high into the air, bounced off  a boulder in front of me and kept on hauling. She ran 60 feet in one run. The run was so violent I ended up tangled in the trees 50 feet downstream. I ran after her, pulled my line out of the trees, and tried to reel her in. Another run upstream, and the down…….I landed her after a long fight. Funny thing is, I was just showing my guest how to roll cast and didn’t expect to hook Granted, it may be fake, but it will have you shaking in your boots. By no means is it easy.  Any how, enough rambling, I’ll let you guys know what Terry says tomorrow. I just decided that I’m going to fish there for a while in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Response:

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…

That’s right nice of you Matt. I actually knew that you were a guide for that stretch of water from talking to Walt and from reading your emails on the NC list, but since we haven’t met, I didn’t want to be so bold as to ask a favor. However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

Response:

No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

How does IJ do that, anyhow?  I already told Walt I was coming to the spring clave in Carolina.  However, I forgot to mention that my attendance was contingent upon the presence of Indian Joe.  Wouldn’t be a Carolina Clave without THE MAN being there. Mark Faulkner

Response:

However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

        since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual wayno the innocent

Ahhhh, Becky and Jody; I taught them everything they know back in ‘74. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

(snipped extremely large dose of fermented BS) in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Walt, Matt’s been at the mushrooms again. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk.

That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0) Louie

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0)

You forgot to say ‘f*ck profanity’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

As Delbert McClinton says, "it ain’t what you eat but the way how you chew it". — Charlie…

Response:

since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

LOL.   I seem to remember a similar incident involving a certain cactus. Of course you’re the legal expert here, but our president has made abundantly clear the difference between "innocent" and "not convicted". Joe F.

Response:

I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago, detailing the steps.  I think he enjoys the anonymity. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC The older you get, the better you realize you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out. If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin. I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.      I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave.   All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

IJ…might be time to adjust the medication a bit <G. BTW, it’s a different crowd "downstream" in avery/watauga…they’ll have you locked up on charges for environmental pollution within the first day! … of course, you’ll probably be staying over at elk river at tom selleck’s place won’t you? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Response:

Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements I agree with Walt.  I once belonged to a local ffing club.  Three heavily stocked ponds with very big fish.  After fishing there for awhile, I found out where the term "shooting fish in a barrel" came from.  It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

Response:

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements If they’re Orvis endorsed I’m sure Dave can pull some strings<g. — Charlie…

these waters, in a sense, are orvis endorsed. to fish them, you hafta arrange a guide trip at the orvis shop. I believe it’s $450.00. is it fake. well, in the sense that there ain’t no other stream in the state with fish like this…sure, it’s unreal, afterall, they are fed daily. are they big fish….well, they’re mighty damn big fish! kamloops, browns and rainbows, many well over 30". the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen, some 24"+. california golden trout in the 24" range. 100’s of fish between 12" & 24". it’s a sight to see, but it ain’t "real." does that mean i don’t fish it? hell, are you crazy? i’ll  fish it every time i’m lucky enough to wrangle an invite, which appropriately, is just once this year. there is a thrill involved with a 30"+ fish on a 3wt…even if it is "fake." is it wise to sneak in there….go ahead boys…. make terry’s day, or should i say, make his wolves day! yup…wolves. btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool.

Do you think there’s a chance that if we told him what we’re planning (I’d be willing to give it a shot) that he might make certain allowances for us (reduced fee, no guide requirement, etc)? I think feeding the fish kinda crosses my own little line of what’s real and what’s fake, but as long as we’re gonna be in the area and all it would be nice to catch a really really big trout. –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.

If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a

call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring

clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.

I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in

Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife) Firt of all, wuss, you announce nothing to the dear lady — you tell or "inform" her that you are going fishing with the guys next May.   Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

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I’ve reformatted your announcement below for the less fortunate. Also, I saw Boone’s Fork listed on your page. Does this mean are you going to talk your friends at Boone’s Fork into letting us fish their "fake fishing" stretch–or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.    Indian Joe

Response:

-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.  Indian Joe

sorry ij…i guess the html kilt it. i’ll try again. ***ANNOUNCING*** The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt Hope to see ya there. Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  ’00 R.O.F.F. Spring Fling Hope to see ya there. Walt

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Question:

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My turn guys, Mike, no problem with your views.  The major thing is that these two are on the air as CANADIAN SPORTFISHING.  You want a couple of law breakers, convicted, going on the air as AMERICAN SPORTFISHING? You, me, Jeff, joe blow down the street make a mistake it’s one thing.  A professional representing his/her country makes a mistake in his professional area that’s a little different. We all worry about the loss of jobs to the innocent, that’s the biggest heartbreak of the whole thing.  Unfortunately this is part of putting your eggs in the wrong basket.  Life does go on.  For this to happen saddens me as I am sure it does the other members of the group behind getting Canadian Sportfishing off the air and the magazine off the shelves.  I know a lot of magazine folks, if one of these people that are in fact innocent and have the proper and necessary credentials writes me that they lost a job over this, I for one will help them in any way I can.  Mark, Rick, Steve, Dan, expect a call. Concerned Canadian — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

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Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia

Well Done Bill. This is the response that will infuriate sponsors, and eventually lead to the removal of these donkeys. You have taken the high road and I am sure that avid anglers will be more inclined to read your material as a result.

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Geez, Mike!  If I’d known that we were *both* longwinded, I may not have touched this post.<grin  I know you’ve said you would rather not say more about this.  I’ll try not to drag you back in by asking questions. And. I’ll try to be brief. I said I’ll try.<grin My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve.

This thing actually started up back around April or so.  I think they did just as you have stated and it sort of worked.  The smell never really left entirely.  I think folks felt the way we do when we wake up after election night to find the "other guy" won: Well, I did what I could.  But they may have been given a chance to cast their ballot in an open atmosphere this time.  Last time, the network was the only one to see the tally. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree.

All of these e-mail addresses were obtained from the companies involved.  They aren’t going to individuals.  This is one of their normal methods of receiving feedback. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc,…

I admit that this does bother me.  These two will go down.  But, not because they are innocent of any wrong doing and somehow a handfull of us decided to destroy them for no reason. I have been unable to find any support whatsoever anywhere in Canada.  This has all been a sham from the getgo.  The network sites overwhelming viewer support as one of the main criteria for keeping the show.  I have asked repeatedly to have the response file made public.  I already know what’s in it.  The same response I’m getting on the street, from industry pros and here on the Internet.   selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders.

Actually the result would be the same.  The magazine and the show would fold if the hosts didn’t have licenses.  However, we have no such recourse anyway.  I wish we did, Mike.  It looks like they are about to topple anyway.  I’ve had one *unconfirmed* report from British Columbia that one distributor has pulled their magazine off the shelf.  I hear "rumours" that they have slipped from fighting for top spot to as low as possibly fifth in the ratings expected out very soon.  Couple this with a renewed letter writing campaign to the sponsors and it doesn’t bode well for the boys. indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong.

Funny you should say that, Mike.  Just yesterday, I was going over my extensive writings on the subject.  As near as I can tell, I’m safe.  I always try to be careful.  Although there may have been an occassion or two when you wouldn’t have been very proud of me.  For the most part, I try to keep my cool. I believe that most everyone has done the same as best they could. You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )

I doubt that, Mike.  You probably have more correct info in your posession than the average Canuck. the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me.

We had two occasions when H&I agreed to take us on.  First, they were to newsgroups.  Fair enough.  We made arrangements to move it over to a Web based discussion board out of the U of Toronto.  At the elenvth hour, they backed out.  Then they said they would answer our e-mail instead. That was about a week and a half ago.  We’re still waiting for at least one of the dozens of questions to be answered. I know what your concern is and I share it.  We tried for weeks to get them to face us.  We would have preferred it if they would stand up and face us like men.  So, if the point of view is one sided, it’s their choice.  We can’t force them to participate.  However, they continue to actively use the mainstream media to get their version of events to a very wide audience.  This is not an attack.  It’s a counter-attack. The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form.

You know, Mike.  I agree with a lot of what you say in this entire post.  But, I don’t see this from the same perspective.  I don’t think we are attempting to increase the penalties for the crimes.  This is about a *big* money business trying to hold onto it’s cash cow.  We are the consumers of the show.  Or, we used to be.  They want to sell us hats, t-shirts, coffee mugs, magazines and seminars.  This doesn’t even include what the sponsors want to sell us.  If some half hour sitcom did something totally outrageous, people would organize a boycott and be writing the Network.  I don’t see this campaign any differently. Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion.

In dollar terms they paid the max.  It was quite an eye opener for me to see how incredibly low that max is.  I was expecting it to be into the thousands for each.  Only $800.00 per.  These guys are loaded.  It’s a little like handing out a thousand dollar fine to some mega pro athlete.  It might have hurt you and I.  But, it wouldn’t really phase these lads.  But, at least they got the max.  As they should. apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know.

Of course one need not break the law to incur the wrath of the viewing public.  No one wants to be mislead or played for an imbecile. …. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid.

I guess that will depend on how the press chooses to play this…which 30 second sound bite becomes the rage on the six o’clock news. For the reasons already outlined above I am against using the internet in this way.  That is why we have laws.

So then, can we agree to disagree?  Oops!  I said I wouldn’t ask questions.  I’ll accept no reply as a Yes.<grin I would wish however that disagreements addressing my published or stated  opinions be factual and sensible, ( like the post from Jeff for instance ) and not drift off into insulting or silly

You are on my Xmas list, Mike.<smile I will follow developments carefully on this case, as I really am very interested in seeing how it progresses and the results if any. ….

Actually, there have been a couple of intersting little things happen behind the scenes this week.  It’s a little premature to be talking about it yet.  This Internet thing may be more effective than I’d hoped.  Coupled of course with widespread disdain amongst amateurs and industry people alike. Thanks, Mike.  I don’t share all your views on this topic.  But, I understand them.                 later,                         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike.

Hi Jeff, thanks for the interesting and informative post. I did not recognise Paul from his address, and I am somewhat wary of information or appeals etc when I do not know the source. Paul very kindly replied immediately to my first post per e-mail with his address etc. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law… Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure.

My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree. As I understand it according to the information I have been given these two hosts were the guilty parties. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc, and I think the suggested method is not selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders. Private and direct e-mails to sponsors or other interested parties might also result in libel suits or similar for those people who do it, depending of course on the content, which would have to be very carefully worded indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,… I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me.

You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )  I am not suggesting that anybody has made any attempts to mislead or anything, but I think there is a considerable difference between discussing the relative merits of fly rods, or flies or whatever, which may result in somebody getting flamed, and using the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril.

The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment.

A criminal act is a criminal act, and should be punished as such, however here we are talking about a fairly minor criminal act which has engendered a lot of emotions and public feeling.  It is wrong in my opinion to allow punishments etc to be affected in this way by force of public opinion. As far as I am aware a court in Canada ( and most other free countries ) is obliged to find its conclusions and sentences without fear or favour. This is not the case with a large group of anglers on the internet who may have the power to hand out further punishment irrespective of the consequences, and with no control. Also probably biased because of the fact that most are sensible caring anglers who find such behaviour atrocious, and in consequence want to see heavier punishments handed out. ( Campaigning for a correct punishment is something else again, if the MNR can be persuaded to use their powers correctly then this is OK in my opinion ). I am not suggesting that anybody look the other way , and I do not in any way condone acts of this nature. When however people start comparing this sort of thing with rapists, as opposed to serial rapists and other obvious silliness then I think the whole sense of proportion has gone overboard, and that in itself is a good reason for taking no further action, as the anger and sense of injustice expressed here is in no relation to the original crime, and would inevitably result in a far greater punishment than would be fair. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there.

Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion. I will admit that this sort of thing  is often the case with celebrities or very rich people, they can usually buy or barter a better deal than joe public generally, either with money or their fame. This is of course wrong, but I dont see what I or anybody else can do about it, apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two.

I appreciate your feelings and sentiments here fully. From what I have heard ( although a lot of it was purely personal insults towards these guys  and not sensible discussion, so is difficult to evaluate ) these guys were a bit of a sad joke as fishermen and hosts anyway. So I find it unlikely that other sensible  fishermen will take much notice of them, and I do not for one second believe that other fishermen wherever they may be will tar other Canadians with the same brush.  The general non angling public is unlikely to be much affected as they wont watch such shows anyway. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid. Similar cases have happened here, … read more »

Response:

All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 …

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

 Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

Response:

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin                         Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for

Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law…

Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,…

I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet.

And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril. a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life,

Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two. integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

Of course, each person has to decide for themselves.  I absolutely disagree that this is misuse of the internet.  Since the Canadian mainstream press have so far given these fellas free reign to spew forth their deception since the guilty pleas were entered, what choice do we have?  This is the one medium where we can say our piece to a reasonably wide audience.  To my way of thinking, this is the perfect use of this medium.  We aren’t slandering these two.  We are countering their deceipt with the facts.  These guy have lawyers with the Midas touch. They are not about to let us liable them.  What the readers do about it, is their decision and no one else’s.  I am not offended by those who choose not to participate.  But, I want to be sure that whatever the decision, it is based on fact and not fiction.         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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                <snip

I think the analogy is they couldn’t find their behinds with both hands. — Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

Whoa Mikey….Lighten up, I don’t think Norm was intending to personally insult. He seems to have brought up some good thought-provoking questions to your original post. OK the rapist point cut a little deep, but everything else was succinct and non-inflammatory. I accept your decision to not join in the boycott, its each angler’s personal choice. I may not agree with it, but I’ll defend your right to it. For my own thoughts, these Bozos gotta go. That they are still producing this inept show is unbelievable. These clowns couldn’t catch a fish in the wilderness to save their own lives (besides they could go for months on the fat reserves these porkers have built up). I say well done, "concerned Canadian" at Fintastic fin mounts (wink, wink), the sooner they exit the TV world the better for all of us. "ambassadors of the sport and conservation" indeed…..

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None other, Dave.  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

The very same.  No problem with those bozos out here.  They were dropped from the cable system here a long time ago.  Rarely have I seen two more inept hosts.  I guess their ethics are of the same calibre.  Have no fear, friends to the north, I never did think these two represented Canadian sportfishing or sportsmanship in any way, shape or form.  I have fished with too many really good fishermen up there the believe that.  Still I appreciate that it upsets you. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

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I have seen several posts on this ng concerning the fishing show. I agree with Mr. Connor. The best way to get rid of a show is not to watch it or write about it. It will be off the air soon enough.

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Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

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    I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

                ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline

                ((( huge snip )))

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As I live the UK I havent seen the programme that you describe, but if the angling shows in the UK are anything to go by, the presenters are all jerks anyway who are only in it for the money (singing the praises of whichever tackle manufacturer gave them a freebie that week ! Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht                 ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline                 ((( huge snip )))

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<much good stuff snipped

                   <snip I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you

Bravo, Mike.   Some restraint is in order.  Sure what they did is despicable.  Easy enough to deal with.  Television is the greatest democracy going and you vote every day, every time– with the on/off switch.    I have seen this show.  These two are first class bozos and the show is poorly produced. I don’t watch it any more.  And I think, at least here in the States, there may be some others who feel the same way. It is no longer on my cable system. I worked for a TV network many years ago.  I was there when Wild Kingdom had to show a disclaimer at the end of the show which has now become familiar on a lot of "reality shows" be they nature, fishing, or hunting. It says: Scenes whether actual or recreated depict actual events."  This was supposed to let the audience know that some of the scenes were "staged" but were supposed to depict things that actually happen in nature.  It was, nevertheless, a shock to many viewers to learn that what they were watching was not 100%  "real".  That’s because the show gave the impression that everything was "real".   I have a feeling that most of the fishing shows could use this kind of disclaimer.  I know of one production where the crew arrives several days in advance and pre-fishes, often capturing and caging fish that are later used in the production whent he "star" arrives for shooting.  I resent this because there is nothing to reveal to the viewer that "it’s a fake".   Sooner or later, people get fed up with these shenanigans and the people who perpetrate them get their comeuppance– the audience abandons them and the show goes off the air.  It just takes more time and is less dramatic than "executing" the perpetrators. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.  Too many spammers out there.

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Their names weren’t Red and Harold by any chance? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world.

<snipped for brevity

Response:

Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

What was that supposed to mean? Gentlemen & Ladies, You must be a very concerned Canadian indeed to go to all this trouble to get these people off the air. I have heard quite a bit about this case already and many anglers are disgusted by it, judging by what I have heard. However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for people we dont even know.  

Agreed Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law in order to further their own silly greed for fame and money, or whatever.  

I don’t think it’s so drastic a measure, it’s done all the time. What "damage" are you suggesting might be caused? I am a passionate fisherman and find the sort of thing these people did very naughty indeed, but calling down the wrath of the combined angling internet on their heads in order to ruin them seems going a bit far.

I’m also a passionate fisherman but don’t find the proposed action going to far at all. Presumably they have already been punished by a court of law if they were convicted as you say, and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence, this alone ought to deter them from any further transgressions, and presumably will stop many people from watching their show ( or it might even have the reverse effect, who knows in this crazy world ? ).

Possibly I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. If these guys  were rapists or something then I might be moved to agree with you, but what they did is in my opinion a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing,

so apparently you are suggestion that if there is a greater crime, you shouldn’t punish the lesser crimes?   Would your defence for a rapist be to claim he wasn’t as bad as a serial rapist? where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, which would rather put the kybosh on a career in angling anyway.  

now you are contradicting yourself or don’t you believe in your  own laws? Is this not the case in Canada ?   I rather doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

I disagree. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise,

like what? and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

I respect your opinion but on the contrary, I believe the internet is a good medium for this kind of thing. — Best regards, Norman Hirsch                   Phone: 212-304-9660         NH&A                                Fax:   212-304-9759 New York, NY 10034 USA          URL: http://www.nha.com

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Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world. We have written letters in attempts to get the hosts to answer direct questions, they refuse to address the issue.  We have written letters in an attempt to get the show cancelled with the answer that it will remain on the air until "more negative response" is received. Host, Henry Waszczuk, was convicted of fishing bass out of season.  Both Waszczuk and co-host, Italo Labignas, were convicted of to joint charges of hooking fish in the body to so they could re-hook them in the mouth and film their retrieval for television.  Waszczuk was also charged with fishing in a sanctuary. Article available at: http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/archive/html/1998/04/16/fish980416a.html The name of the show is Canadian Sportfishing, it is aired on TSN, The Sports Network.  They also publish a magazine called Canadian Sportfishing. Post your views at: http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/FUN/Fish.html or news.can.rec.fishing We request that you assist us in getting these "anglers" off the air. Please write Rick Brace at the Sports Network(address below) requesting the show be cancelled.  Please write, e-mail or fax the sponsors (listed below) to pull their sponsorship of convicted fishing law violators. Please boycott their magazine. Thank you for your assistance. Concerned Canadian The Sports Network Rick Brace. Web Site URL            http://www.tsn.ca/ Audience Relations      416 490-7030 Canadian Sportfishing SPONSORS LIST Ford of Canada 1-800-565-FORD (3673)

Question:

A good size brown beats them all. Just the take is enough for me, but the fight and all those minutes of wondering how big he really is. They just stick to the bottom with even, powerful pulls, just shy of breaking the leader. nothing beats this, Browns for me. kmustad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly.

The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW

Well conditioned sea-run cutts usually fight much like browns or brook trout; they tend to stay deep, pull hard and shake. They may jump a bit more However a fair number of fish become quite acrobatic and will also make good runs, making the reel scream. I have memories of a fair number of these that I took to be small coho. I remember one fish while working the spring time chum migration on the Harrison that body surfed down the wave of a boat wake to snatch my fly and promptly put in 5 or 6 consecutive jumps; sulked a bit then jumped a few more times. Ralph H

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(Eric) writes:   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly   I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting   trout:   Eric

Steelhead. OK, next question… -tgades

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 I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ?

I know what you mean, those little dudes I launch into the bushes behind me.  ZZZing!  Quite a surprise.  Poor fish, mindin’ his own bidness, when Bang! Zoom! to the moon! Anglerboy

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Mulberry–not the Marlboro, now–which is tied to imitate a–you got it–mulberry.  But these are hardly fair comparisons.  The best stripe

Gee Dave, I have never of the Mulberry hatch!  ;-) -Burton

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Both choices are wild rainbows: 1- summer steelhead.  Not like a winter fish. The turbos are spun up,they’re taken on lighter tackle, and you may be able to sight-fish with dries.

<<< Yeah, it can be real fun watching a finning steelie turn his head and take your fly.  The most incredible sight I have ever seen was this huge 20+ lb. steelhead rise to an October Caddis on the Siletz.  It looked totally incongrous.  That head looked like a basketball. 2- native redside.  I’ll never forget a 17" Deschutes fish that I would have thought was a steelhead, if I wasn’t after the lead fish in a pod of rising trout.  Incredible fight! <<<

I like those big 20-25 pounders.  I have yet to land one.  They fight so different.  You bring them in a couple of times, then they run back out twenty or thirty yds. then go nuts like a chicken with it’s head cut off.  Then they are gone! -Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rainbow, without a doubt.  They hit like a train, leap, make strong runs.  Brown and cutthroats are great bulldoggers, and I have seen browns make some good leaps.  Nothing touches the rainbow/steelhead though. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones I am mostly a eastern fisherman so I don’t know what to expect from western trout but years back I was fishing a tiny stream in Utah that was filled with rainbows of 7-9 inches ( the local flyshop wasn’t even aware of the fishery) and I never battled such feisty fish before as these guys.They just wouldn’t give up…..I landed about 1/2 of what I hooked…… They were absolutely amazing !                                                                                        Jody

It sounds like you need to visit the Pacific Northwest Jody!  You would get the battle of your like from some of our brutes. -Burton

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….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. The same ones that become ‘flying fish’ when you set the hook ? TimW

Yes, they usually hit me in the face. If I open my mouth I can eat them right then! DJones

Response:

(Eric) says: : : I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting : trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow : because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns : also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and : hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other : flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. : : Eric : : my vote: : : 1) Gerard Strain Rainbows of Kootney Lake  BC; hands down : 2) Kamloops strain Rainbow of the South Interior of BC : : Gerard have the acrobatics and drive of any fish that swims plus : considerably more strength than any salmonid I’ve ever hooked; : including browns; various strains of cutts, Madison, Bow River and : Crowsnnest Rainbows; steelhead ; cohoe etc : : Kamloops fish combine great acrobatics and strength with are largely : insectorvious (sp) : I definitely second Eric’s vote.  The Kamloops trout is very widespread in Southeastern BC. and NE Washington State. – Keith

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The best fighting trout is the one you have on your line right now

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout. Eric

I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow trout. They run 12 to 22 inches and are hot as a pistol. They are a great fly rod fish and there are less of them every year. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows.

Yeah, I would vote for the junior rainbows as well.  You gotta love their acrobatics. Bruce….

Response:

All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years. I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These

fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince

Response:

All of the trouts and chars have periods when they are more aggressive and better fighters.  Get a pre-spawn brown or rainbow and you have a much better situation then these same fish at other times of the years.   I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around here are poor fighters, generally, and susceptible to a relatively high mortality rate. TimW – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Eric, I think the rainbow is a real acrobatic fighter while the brown is more like a bull dog.  Also the cutthroat, the brookie, and the golden all vie with each other over which is the most beautiful that depending water and environment. My favorite trout happens to be the one that’s on the end of the line but I do have a bit of a preference for Mr. Brown Trout. My favorite fish on a fly rod would be a large white fish or carp from the side channel in the lower Yellowstone River. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow I like Half-pounders on the lower Klamath river in Nor Cal and the lower Rogue river southern Oregon. These are small fall run steelhead, ocean going rainbow

Umm, yeah I forgot about the half-pounders!  They are little silver missiles.  Probably the friskiest fish I’ve ever had on.  The Rogue is a great river.  They are protecting them now. -Burton

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(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow BTW–has anyone developed fly to imitate the fish-food-pellet hatch? It could float for a second then sink to the bottom where it would swell up DJones No, but I have seen some pretty novel approaches to "fly fishing".  On the

Metolius River I have seen a yellow Cheeto Fly and a white Bread-crumb Fly fished below the Allingham Bridge from which tourist types are prone to throw things in an effort to get a rise from a big fish.  It frequently works. -Burton

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I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when they first enter fresh water.  Cutt’s in the high lakes around TimW Yeah, the sea-run cutt’s are dynamite hear on the Oregon Coast.  However,

they have declined so bad it’s getting hard to find them.  I pick one up occasionally while targeting other fish.  They strike like it’s their last meal. Burton

Response:

I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

My preference is the rainbow, since I like fish that jump.  Brown’s give you a nice tug of war, but that’s about all.  Then best of all is the sea-run rainbow, the steelhead.  I have had hens that I swear could tailwalk on the water. -Burton

Response:

I have heard that sea run cutt’s are very hard fighters when TimW I had the opportunity (and luck) to fish for skamania steelhead at Trail Creek this July.  These fish were a fresh summer run strain from Lake Michigan, I don’t really know where the original brood stock came from but I think it was Wash.  They were absolutly incredible fighters, much better than "normal" strains of steelhead. Vince Yup, nice fighting fish!  One of the better strains for flyfishing.  They

originally came from the Washougal in Washington, but now are all over the place including Peru. -Burton

Response:

(Eric) writes: I was just wondering what everyone thought was the best fighting trout, the Brook, Rainbow, or Brown….My vote goes to the Rainbow because they jump the most and fight the longest….but the browns also give up good fights and try to get under rocks and the sort…and hope you make the wrong move….Just curious to hear what other flyfishermen feel is the best fighting trout.

Proportionally speaking, pound for pound I’d vote for those itty bitty rainbow minnows. You know, the ones that are only about twice as big as your fly. They can leap many times their own length out of the water and they run back and forth like their life depended on it. (Reminds me of my kid on too many snicker bars) And ya gotta hand it to them for their gusto going for that huge fly, it must look like a whole day

Question:

 Last July, my wife and I spent a fabulous week at a wilderness  outpost cabin in the heart of British Columbia.  Our hosts were  Rhonda and Duncan Stewart of Stewart’s Lodge and Camps.  This is  a fantastic lodge with access to over 20 lakes and streams from  the main lodge on Nimpo Lake.  They also have several wilderness  outpost locations.  We chose the wilderness outpost location for  our honeymoon.  Everything was perfect.  The rainbows averaged  1-3 pounds and were anxious to devour several well-known flies.  We had the entire lake to ourselves for 4 days.  There were no  trails or roads into this place.  The Stewart’s have erected a  wonderful cabin that is more than comfortable.  We enjoyed  hiking, canoeing, backpacking, and lots of fishing.  I’d like to  go back and catch the huge rainbows in the river locations.  Stewart’s lodge is located near Tweedsmuir Provincial Park.  This  is a beautiful park with plenty of great hiking opportunities.  It reminded me of Glacier Park with one exception…no people.  You virtually have most areas to yourself.  Stewart’s Lodge and Camps is a great place for fisherman and  non-fisherman alike.  I know that we will go back soon.  I’ll be  happy to answer any questions about our experience.  You can also  find out more information at their WWW site:  http://www.on-the-fly.com  Sincerely,    David Neils            3919 Benthaven Drive  Fort Collins, Colorado 80526

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:  Last July, my wife and I spent a fabulous week at a wilderness :  outpost cabin in the heart of British Columbia.  Our hosts were :  Rhonda and Duncan Stewart of Stewart’s Lodge and Camps.  This is stuff deleted… You can also call Rhonda or Duncan for a full color brochure/newsletter. This is well worth reading if you are planning a fly fishing adventure to Canada. Call 1-800-ON-THE-FLY Tell them I sent you. David Neils

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Question:

Did anyone catch a Namaycush on a fly (wet or dry)?

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: Did anyone catch a Namaycush on a fly (wet or dry)? I fish lake trout quite frequently on the fly, in the spring, just after ice-out.  I normally throw a sink-tip or sinking line.  If the laker population is largely piscivorous (fish-eating), I start near an inflowing stream where they’ll probably be gorging on baitfish in fairly shallow water.  In Switzerland, I expect bream and perch are likely forage.  In these conditions, I’ll go with some kind of a flashy streamer.  With planktivorous lake trout populations (those feeding mainly on invertebrates), some kind of an emerger pattern, matching the activity you see in the water, is usually a good bet.  I’ve never caught a _really_ big one like this, but I can assure you that a 4 kg fish on a 4 weight rod is certainly a memorable experience! In my area, flies are pretty much out of contention by mid-June, unless you’re fishing a really smal, spring-fed lake, wherein you might be able to use a fast-sinking line and get them all summer long!  Oh joy; oh bliss! Hope this helps.  Tchuss! —                                 | Dave Fluri                      |       "No me agaro ya de nada, para North Bay, Ontario, Canada      |        asi no tener nada que defender."                                 |               -Carlos Castaneda                                 |

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Question:

I know this has been posted before but I can’t find my copy of the file.  Can anyone let me know where the NF outlets are (I’m mainly interested in the SF area) and when they might be having another sale?                         Mucho,                           Kevin

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I spent a few days in Baxter (actually Millinocket) last summer.  Baxter camping sites are reserved well in advance; doubt you can get in for this summer, maybe shoulder season like Sept. will work better.  Appalachia Trail’s ends (or begins depending upon point of view) at top of Katadin; maybe you can hike in and camp along trail?  I know the trail goes by a nice river at the border of  the park and the Golden Road; don’t know about other fishing venues.  Hope this helps.

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I would like to possibly spend a week or two at Baxter this summer. Information on good solitary tent sites and fly fishing possibilities would be much apreciated.                 Thanks,

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Question:

Aren’t they the ones that eat their own young?

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Not only will they eat their young they will also take a #28 Adams on 8X …. give it a try…. Thats how I get over cabin fever.  by the way make sure to use barbless hooks, guppies don’t seem to recover well from

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Well, I was down in Louisianna and stopped off on the side of the road at a creek.  Little minnows were swimming around on the surface.  I had some #14 hooks and some little pieces of worm.  The water was about 6 feet down from where my gf and I were standing.  We let our lines down and the minnows would grab the worm, not able to get the hook in their mouth.   They would hold onto it just enough that you could sling them out of the water.  We flicked them high enough that they went flying in the air and we would catch them in our hands.  We kept them in a bucket for some catfishing that night.  They did not seem to be harmed too much by their sudden flights into the air.  Guess its another way to catch fish.

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Question:

I have recently thought of trying to fish with fly gear.   What is a good way for me to try this sport without breaking the bank?

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* Le 01-05-95, JIM E. BECKER exprimait . ALL le propos suivant: JE JEI have recently thought of trying to fish with fly gear.   JEWhat is a good way for me to try this sport without breaking the bank? – First go to a local fly shop. They are the best source of advice. – Then try to get some lessons or rent the equipment to try it out (you will have to buy the flies though). But be aware that once you start you won’t be able to stop. I guess it should be classified has one of the incurable but  non-fatal disease…   Hope this help. Au plaisir de vous lire, Denis Lamy Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada) ~~~ * VbReader 2.2 #67 * Veni, vidi, visa (Je suis venu, j’ai vu, j’ai paye)

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Question:

I have never tried fishing for steelhead and would like some pointers, if possible. Looking for Northern California waters. I know they run in the Klamath but are there any other streams/creaks that steelhead frequent? Is September, October best, or when is the best time? How about a surefire Steelhead Fly or 2? I need all the help I can get. TIA Rich P.S. Please respond to me directly  as I don’t read this newsgroup very often. Thanks again

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Regarding Northern California steelhead fishing, call the fish phone at (707)444-8041.  They have recorded info on where the fish are biting and on what.  When the steelhead are running, a majority of the recording is devoted to them. If you are looking for a good Northern California river, I always suggest the Mad River.  There is good access as well as great fishing for steelhead.  Give it a shot. Steve

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Regarding Northern California steelhead fishing, call the fish phone at (707)444-8041.  They have recorded info on where the fish are biting and on what.  When the steelhead are running, a majority of the recording is devoted to them. If you are looking for a good Northern California river, I always suggest the Mad River.  There is good access as well as great fishing for steelhead.  Give it a shot.

As I told him in email, a good reference for Steelhead fishing in Northern California is Jim Freemans "California Steelhead".  It covers the Klamath and Trinity rivers in great detail and has sections on about 20 other rivers.  There are many detailed maps showing the good holes and sections on recommended lures and flies. It is published by Chronicle Books in San Francisco, ISBN 0-87701-268-7. — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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