Question:

Greetings all, I am planning on taking my son on some fishing trips here in the next few weeks; he is relatively young and just starting in fishing.  We are planning on going to the South-East corner of Minnesota for the trips but we are somewhat new to the area and not familiar with the rivers and streams.  I would like to find a river or stream that we camp nearby for a night or two and that he can fish in while I can also do some fly fishing (preferable within walking distance of the camp.) Does anyone know of any places like this in the area that they could recommend to us?  We would greatly appreciate any information that we get. Thanks….

Response:

… Does anyone know of any places like this in the area that they could recommend to us? …

Whitewater State Park. — Ken Fortenberry

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Question:

I have an API Spartan vise.  I just broke the jaw.  I emailed Orvis and they didn’t know where to get parts.  Does anybody know who makes(ed) them or where I may get parts? Thank you, Dr. Richeson

Response:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Regards, Jeff

Response:

Kennebec River Tackle in Maine now makes what was the API.  Would guess that the parts fit. Sorry, don’t know exactly where they’re located.  Hope this little bit helps. Aaron Hirschhorn

Response:

thank you… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Kennebec River Tackle in Maine now makes what was the API.  Would guess that the parts fit. Sorry, don’t know exactly where they’re located.  Hope this little bit helps. Aaron Hirschhorn

Response:

They are in Bath Maine but I can’t find an ad around here anyplace for a phone number sorry. Flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – thank you… Kennebec River Tackle in Maine now makes what was the API.  Would guess that the parts fit. Sorry, don’t know exactly where they’re located.  Hope this little bit helps. Aaron Hirschhorn

Response:

Kennebec River Fly & Tackle  -  207-729-5200

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They are in Bath Maine but I can’t find an ad around here anyplace for a phone number sorry. Flyfish thank you… Kennebec River Tackle in Maine now makes what was the API.  Would guess that the parts fit. Sorry, don’t know exactly where they’re located.  Hope this little bit helps. Aaron Hirschhorn

Response:

Question:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks. Memories of my last fall in this spot on a day trip the previous  year, when I crashed heavily onto a rock with my right knee, and had to more or less crawl to the car being unable to walk, came to mind, and made me even more careful than usual.  Without the cushioning of the 5mm neoprene my kneecap would surely have been badly damaged, as it was it brought tears to my eyes, and my knee was swollen and all the colours of the rainbow for weeks. Digging my ski pole in carefully at every step I kept moving, staying at the waters edge, and only wading when absolutely necessary, to negotiate large boulders and the like. falling into this water would likely prove fatal very quickly, should I be stupid or careless enough to do so. The wind had dropped somewhat, to about a howling gale, and the rapidly swirling snow flakes stuck to my clothing and covered my head and shoulders, freezing to my spectacles and forcing me to shake my head occasionally to stop too large a build-up. Clammy cold damp reached through my neoprenes and made me shiver occasionally.  Very heavy overcast coupled with the snowstorm had turned the day very dark. I had started to fish just before  dawn, and had made my way slowly along three miles or so of the rocky coastline stopping to cast every ten feet or so, using main force to try and reach out as far as possible into the murk, lingering a little longer at some places which had proved successful in the past. Result ? nothing. Checking the watch on the lanyard in my top pocket, told me it was eleven thirty, and I had told my wife I would probably be back to the chalet for lunch, she had declined to accompany me, and decided to stay in the chalet with a good book instead.  Sensible person my wife. Just another hundred meters or so I thought, and then I will turn for home,  the group of large rocks at the headland is usually the best place anyway, as the sea-bed dips away into a deep channel quite close to shore. Takes come as the fly comes up over the lip of the channel where a large band of weed lines the shore, mostly cod, but occasionally a good seatrout, the lip of the channel is only about sixty feet from shore, and a good flat powerful cast should reach it, even in this wind.  Overwintering seatrout are often large, in excellent condition, and sometimes fight like fury, many maintain they taste better than any other fish bar none. Largish cod are not to be sniffed at either though, they fight much more doggedly than a seatrout, but are still exciting, and a five or even ten pounder on light gear is an experience not soon forgotten. Several such fish had fallen to my rod at this spot the previous year under similar conditions. Conventional gear was useless, and I had long since taken the fly reel and line off the rod, in fact within the first twenty minutes, and was using a casting float and fixed spool reel. Even with this rig it was hardly possible to cast more than fifty feet or so into the teeth of the wind. A slow sinking sliding float of thirty grams, a nine foot leader, and a shrimp fly had brought nothing as yet, not as much as a nibble.  I decided to change flies, and put on a much darker version of the shrimp fly, with a touch of red in the tail. The normally peaceful Baltic was crashing into the shore with unusual force, white horses whirling and dancing on the wave tops as far as it was possible to see, and although the water cleared quickly after every breaker, allowing one to see the bottom fairly well close in, I fancied something with a darker silhouette might do the trick, although my hopes of catching anything at all had diminished considerably. As usual I dangled the fly in the water in front of me, waiting for a break in the surf, allowing the float to settle slowly and then moving it to check the action of the fly more or less at my feet.  A small crab appeared as if from nowhere on the blank patch of sand,and seemed to want to grab the fly, scuttling after it and attempting to settle on it, and fascinated by this, I pulled the fly along slowly, just to see if the crab would be able to grab it.  Intent on this, I failed to notice the next breaker coming in and temporarily lost sight of the crab and fly, as the breaker stirred up sand colouring the water. A sudden jerk and my float shooting away along the shore at a rate of knots very nearly frightened me to death, the rod was almost jerked from my hand, and the drag on my reel started to whine unpleasantly, and I was absolutely flabbergasted. I did not strike or anything at all, in fact for quite a while I just stood there with the rod pointing straight along the shore, while the line cut into my index finger almost to the bone and the drag continued to whine. After what seemed like an age I finally had enough presence of mind to take my finger away from the line, and hit the fighting drag lever on the reel, the drag which was giving off what I hoped was just steam, slowed to a rather more leisurely rate, and eventually stopped. Everything went slack, and rather annoyed with myself. but still more surprised than anything else, I started to reel in.  Must have been one hell of a fish that, I thought, reeling in at moderate speed, you bloody idiot, fancy losing a fish like that, I cursed myself, and then everything went tight again ! Bloody hell, hung up as well !   Then the "snag" started moving again. After about ten minutes of pumping, a few peculiarly powerful long, and some short dogged runs, which were most unlike any fight I had experienced before, and during which all sorts of ideas of monster seatrout and salmon went through my mind, and more pumping, I finally saw the fish, a large cod foul hooked in the dorsal fin !  Too large to risk beaching it, I unslung my net and landed it knee deep in the surf, in considerable danger of being swept off my feet by the breakers. I despatched the fish, which coughed up a fair number of small crabs, and after weighing it laid it on a large rock behind me. Just over eleven pounds showed on my scale which is fairly accurate.  Oh well, I thought, not exactly the fine English art of fly angling, but a nice fish anyway, and inspected my leader and fly for signs of chafing or other damage.  Getting ready for another Herculean cast into the teeth of the wind, I suddenly thought better of it, and just swung the float and fly about ten feet from shore, letting the fly be pulled along by the float and tumbling in the surf.  Bang !  it had not gone three yards when the float shot away again, and after a much shorter battle a nice plump six pound cod  joined its mate on the rock behind me.  Six casts and six fish followed in fairly quick succession. Sweating now, all thoughts of cold forgotten, I decided on "just one more cast" before packing up.  I had over forty pounds of fish to clean and pack back to the chalet, and that was more than enough for our freezer requirements for this year. The sky had lightened up somewhat, and the snow had stopped falling, visibility was steadily increasing, and although the wind had dropped somewhat the spray was still lashing in with force, occasionally giving me a good soaking, my face was numb, and all attempts to dry my hands on the towel from my bag failed miserably as it was already soaking wet.  Plunging my hands into the icy water one more time, and hoping for the best, I changed my chafed leader with no little difficulty, tied on a new fly of the same type and size, a rather brown "Baltic woolly", with a touch of red in the tail, a type of woolly bugger which is a very good shrimp imitation, and might just conceivably be mistaken for a crab, and decided to try reaching the lip of the channel. A forceful whirling side cast using all the power of the thirteen foot one and a half pound test carp rod, keeping the trajectory as flat as possible, ended abruptly, as the float struck the water about thirty feet out, my numb fingers had caused me to mistimed the release.  Relatively slight tangles formed as the wind caught the line and blew it off the reel spool.  This was soon sorted and I took up tension on the line prior to retrieving fairly fast for another try.  Wham !  an almighty jerk on the end of the line bent the rod well over, and the drag started whining immediately as the fish headed straight for the deep water channel.  Just as well, if it dived for the weeds  it would be gone.  This was no foul hooked cod, but obviously a decent seatrout, and as if to confirm my observations it leapt from the water about a hundred  feet away, coming down with a large splash which could be heard even over the sound of wind and waves.  A very nice fish indeed, which must be kept out of the weeds at all costs. I loosened the drag lever somewhat, seatrout often come off if forced too hard, and  settled down to the fight. Several long screaming runs followed by spectacular leaps followed, with the fish coming ever closer to the weed bank lining the shore. The trick at this location is to tire the fish out as much as possible in the clear water beyond the weed banks, before bringing it in. This is however often much easier said than done. This was a very powerful fish, and was still showing little sign of tiring, I loosened the drag a little more, hoping that the hookhold would not fail due to the prolonged fight, and awaited developments. Several more runs and leaps followed.and then head shaking and short deep bursts of speed toward the bottom … read more »

Response:

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt…

Stop it, you’re making me hungry! I knew that cod tasted good. I knew that the flesh was white and flaky. I just thought that they were a little ugly and lived in deep and really cold water. (I mean, you have to admit that they don’t have the sleek predatory good looks of a spotted bass, or the colors of a spawning rainbow, and I didn’t think fish were supposed to have beards…) Besides, the inland US doesn’t have much cod, but have you ever hooked into a bigmouth bass? That’s a ride you won’t soon forget. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stop it Tony, you unleash guttural powers you don’t want to know about. Is it hereby concluded that you’ll take care of lunch at the Flyfair? Drooling on my keyboard, Herman

I’ll stand you and Mike Connor a lunch Herman, but sadly I don’t think it will be cod. My car is only a little one and I fear my other passengers might object if I came over loaded up with cod, potatoes and deep fryer, etc.! By a strange coincidence, they were talking about cod on BBC Radio 4 today. The price has rocketed as stocks have declined. There was even an interview with Mark Kurlansky (who wrote the book) over in New York. We are very lucky as we have an excellent fish n’ chip shop in Tunbridge Wells, our nearest big town. It regularly wins the prize for the best in the south east of England. My wife just e-mailed to ask: ‘What’s for dinner tonight?’ Problem solved! I’m looking forward to Fly Fair. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

There’s a fish they catch here in Northern California (not on the fly) called a "ling cod". It’s about the scariest looking thing I’ve ever seen.

It’s related to the scorpionfishes and rock cod.  Like the rock cod, the ling is not a cod. If I remember correctly it doesn’t suffer from decompression as you haul it up from the depths of the ocean.  It fights you all the way.  Cab grow to 5 feet. http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_lingcod_fact.html Mu

Response:

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something.

Mike, you are clearly an ignoramus when it comes to cod. Cod fillet (those gorgeous, toothsome white flakes) battered and deep fried in beef dripping, with chips, is one of the great Epicurean experiences of the world. It is a meal redolent of the the cool open air after the cinema or pub. It evokes memories of young love; of soft-sweatered pulchritude and youthful vigour. Ah, the smell of it; the tang of malt vinegar and coarse salt… Suggest you read: ‘Cod – The Biography of the Fish that Changed the World’, by Mark Kurlansky and published (1997) in the US by Walker Publishing Co. Inc. ISBN 0-224-05104-0. It’s a very interesting book, though perhaps a rather surprising ‘best seller’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

[snipped excellent report] … Brrrr … Thanks, Steve — "Experience must be the teacher in this game – not only your own  but the other man’s" – Dick Wigram http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/SIEACCIDENTALLYSPLATTEREDBACKONEDAY

Response:

Mike, I’ll call/mail you as soon as I can arrange some days off! And, judging from your post, I’ll pack my old carp rod as well.. Cheers, Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.

By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Herman’s post on Cod is a new one for me. How about in the US, on the Pacific Coast, are folks fishing the shallows at nite for young Cod? Id like to try that. Anyone know more per the PNW coast? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it. The big boys and girls are normally caught in deep water, but the kids play and hunt in the shallows, especially at night. Feeding on shrimps, crabs and other edible critters, they can turn an otherwise fishless seatrout fishing night into a ball. Those kids are already big strong fish, by the way.. and did I mention _very_ good to eat yet? <g Herman By "Cod," do you mean _Gadus morhua_? Big ugly thing with pasty white flesh and three dorsal fins? I always thought that they were a fish for deep and frigid water, but it wouldn’t be the first time today that I was wrong about something. "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Correct.  In the Baltic and some other places ( English North sea and similar), these fish come in close to forage, especially on crustaceans and herring. Fairly large fish may be caught in relatively shallow water. They will even "rise" to flies fished on the surface,especially at twilight, at night , or on heavily overcast days.  My best fish to date from the shore was thirty one pounds, but I got that one on a pirk, not on a fly. My best fly caught fish was about twenty pounds, but I don’t know exactly as it was not weighed.  These fish are game fighters, excellent to eat, (especially smoked with my secret recipe ! ), and although completely unlike trout can be very attractive indeed. Their markings and behaviour depend to a considerable extent on the areas they frequent. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Looking forward to hearing from you Herman. You can stay at my place no problem.  Definitely bring the carp rod. I have enough other gear for you to use if you need anything else. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Not sure about the latin, but big, ugly and, don’t forget, _tasty_ sort of describes it.

Flaky white flesh, pretty durned good smoked? That’s the very one. Cod are definitely yummy. If only there were enough that they weren’t a special order here. The closest that we have in the inland US are Burbot, and they’re just not the same. Of course, we do have the various black basses, so we’re all happy "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Freezing cold and heavy snowfall. My feet were slowly going numb, and my fingers had long since turned blue with the cold. The old trick of plunging them into the freezing water to increase the circulation, and thus warm them up, had worked as usual, but the effects had long since worn off and I was really cold now. Neoprene gloves with fold back finger and thumb were little use, and so I removed them.Visibility was low because of the fairly dense snowfall, and the footing was treacherous over the rocks.

(great report snipped)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

Response:

An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or not (possibly true, the weather description was familiar!), thanks Mike! I’m quite sure the temperature dropped five degress while I was reading this report. Next time when you go, could you make some room for a Dutchman? I can take my own rum.. Cheers, Herman (great report snipped, indeed!)         the wonder of very well written prose is that one has substantial difficulty in separating truth from fiction.  well done, pommy. wayno

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

I go fairly regularly Herman, any time you fancy a trip ( couple of days if you like ), just drop me a mail and we can arrange it.  I can be at a number of good places on the Danish coast within three hours from where I live, so can also do day-trips etc without any problem.  At this time of year, and earlier, a good seatrout is not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Cod are mostly caught, depending on weather etc, some big ones.  The herring will be in soon, and both cod and seatrout hunt these shoals, and you can have excellent sport then. You can catch plenty of herring on the fly as well if you are so inclined.  The trip report is perfectly true by the way, but I must admit that it was my best trip this year. I caught quite a lot less on other trips, in fact actually blanking once, and though this is rare, it does happen.  I know a few people who have fished for two years or more without catching one single seatrout. I must be lucky, I have caught quite a few, some large ones as well. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An even bigger wonder is that one doesn’t even care any more. True or

Response:

Question:

Wayne Knight Geneva IL You’re right Wayne but Walt grew up in Florida. Somewhere in the swamps I think.

mango infested islands loaded with big tusked hogs and big, slow moving turtles.  That’s why it takes him so long to do anything and is why women love him. ; ) —

Question:

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman.

 There’s an area in Utah where I’ve fished for years, with my Grandpa, and dad.. This is just a farmers field, where the Weber river cuts off, but really good fishing…  The owner started charging 10$ per, due to garbage left by others.. It seems that those who were littering don’t feel like paying, so it’s clean now.. But still costs… And I skipped ahead.. I agree, I did get the main point… My dad’s ALWAYS taught us to leave the areas we go cleaner than when we got there…

Response:

Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .  . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .     . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .     + .  ~~~  . * . +

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Response:

I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!! One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

   I was out paddling a canoe this past spring looking for spawning grounds, saw a few beds, also many sunken beer cans. Really sucks.

Response:

Cutam281 Writes: There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

KEW Writes: you could get arrested forsuspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

Cutam281 Writes: Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….

KEW Writes: Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw

NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!!  If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

Response:

bullshit……. canadian take more pride in their waters than most ever visit the great white north????? well youcan still drink the water out of most of the lakes and rivers there….. as for polluters.. maybe we should look more at the american mine companies in northern ontario for what is really polluting our waters?//

Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NO!! You wake up "KEW"!!!   The way you keep comming up with excuse after excuse to sink beer cans leads me to believe that YOU are most likely one of those whom do the sinking… If the laws in Illinois and elsewhere are strict on beer being comsumed while on water, then you and others should find another beverage to drink while boating and obey your state laws!! If you must have your alcohol then wait till you get back on dry land & drink…As I said, "There is NO excuse for littering our water AT ALL!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

reason why you see beer cans strewn along the highways too…but do I care…. no way.  I offered an analysis…. you offered — WHAT? kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hey Mark, Try telling this to "KEW"… He seems to have accused Canadian guides of sinking beer cans… Hey KEW, Are you sure you witnessed them sinking the cans?? Maybe what you actually saw was the guide pulling some sunken cans OUT of the water.. Hahahahahaha!!!!!! ~    . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                        . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

///// I was not accusing "Canadian guides" ……. at least not in general.  In fact, I didn’t accuse anyone.  I simply pointed out a direct observation.. You don’t have to believe it…. why would I care?. kw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey wake up,,, most states have these rules.  This IS why beer cans are tossed over…… why carry around evidence.  In Illinois it is that way……. Texas is apparently still civilized. kw That excuse doesn’t hold beer.  Some states have such laws while others don’t but you wouldn’t be able to tell which is which from the beer can litter on the water, or anywhere else, for that matter.  Personally, I think that states should raise beer can deposits to $2 per can. Then, if the drinkers are still too lazy, there will at least be a substantial incentive for others to pick up after them.  Who knows, someone might even get a franchise going, something like "Surrogate Mothers of America", with the slogan "We’re still picking up after you !" greg pavlov  [not affiliated with Canisius College]

I share the same sentiments of raising the deposits on beer/liquor containers up in the "$$$" range. This would make people think twice about chucking their cans anywhere.

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WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

I can totaly relate to your post…. There are alot of lazy ass people whom continue to carelessly polute our rivers & lakes…I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

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I have picked up other people’s garbage numerous times!! It’s just pure outright laziness!!!!

One of my favorite fishing spots has been lost forever due to trash left by other fisherman. The landowner even posted signs warning people that he would close the area if the littering continued. The next signs he put up were " No Trespassing- Violaters will be Prosecuted". I have talked to him and tried to get permission to fish. His response " blame it on your fellow fisherman".

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WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM.

If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place….. I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason. kw

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If you pick up someone’s beer cans, then you could get arrested for suspicion of having consumed alcohol on the water and that is likely why the cans are in the water in the first place…..

Well, I live in Texas USA not in Canada.. There are no laws here in Texas which govern the amount of beer cans you have in possesion as long as you are not boating intoxicated…So there is NO excuse for littering our waters at all!!! I have witnessed guides in Canada sinking cans in the lakes as soon as the beer is consumed for just this reason.

Well, if this is true then good luck to the future Canadian fishermen because there wont be any clean fishing areas left & that is very sad….    .  +  * _    *   + .  *   + .      . *    )O/(     *    .  *   + .                                            . + . . (o o)     + .  *   + .   . * .         . *.  /._. ***STAR*** ~ .                                             + .  ~~~  . * . +

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I think all of you missed my point!!! It’s not just beer cans it’s garbage in general. the point I was trying  to make is that we all have to do our part to clean things up!!!  You can’t blame people….You have to take action. Next time you see some garbage PICK IT UP!!! Set an example that it’s the IN thing to do!!! Show kids it’s cool to clean up even if it’s not yours!! TEACH BY EXAMPLE!!!! It is easy to sit here and write about it. DO IT!!!! So enough said, I thought I’d get a positive response, not a blame it on someone else session. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO READ THIS AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID AND PICKED UP  SOME GARBAGE THE LAST TIME THEY FOUND SOME!

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I STOOD IN MY WADERS THIS EVENING IN A RIVER NOT FAR FROM MY HOUSE. IT IS A RIVER NOTED FOR SMALL MOUTH BASS, CATFISH, WALLEYE, MUSKIE , PIKE , PANFISH, ALL WHICH ARE ABUNDANT. AS I WAS FLY FISHING I COUNTED A NUMBER OF POP AND BEER CANS WHICH WERE FLOATING DOWN SREAM FROM THE DAM. THERE WAS A  GROUP OF FISHERMAN WHO WERE NEAR THE DAM FISHING UNDER THE FROTH FOR CATFISH I SUPPOSE. I’M NOT HERE TO BLAME ANYONE…… BUT I STARTED TO THINK OF HOW FAR THE RIVER HAS COME FROM WHAT IT WAS. I USED TO HEAR ABOUT THE RIVER AND HOW DIRTY IT WAS. THERE WERE NO FISH AND SO ON. TODAY THE RIVER IS A TROPHY FISHERY THANKS TO THE WORK OF MANY VOLUNTEERS AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME. SO THIS IS JUST A REMINDER TO LEAVE THE AREA YOU FISH BETTER THAN THE WAY YOU FOUND IT. PICK UP SOME TRASH AND THROW IT AWAY….EVEN IF IT’S NOT YOURS. REMEMBER TO EDUCATE THE YOUNG AND SHOW THEM BY EXAMPLE LIKE MY FATHER DID. LET’S TRY TO MAKE AN EXTRA EFFORT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE OUR RIVERS, LAKES , PONDS AND STREAMS BETTER PLACES TO FISH FOR EVERYONE!!                                                        BECAUSE I LOVE TO FISH!!

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Question:

Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

You’d be surprised what you local libray might have; and you might be able to put a hold on one that’s not in, or order it from another library.    I’ve checked out a number of them over the years.   Some fly fishing shops also rent them out. Before I teach someone how to fly fish, or even to cast, I always insist they watch the videos, first. Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

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Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

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There are a number of good casting videos.  Some of our favorites are:  "Joan Wulff’s Dynamics of Fly Casting", which is still fairly new on the market.  It covers "from solid basics to advanced techniques." $24.95 And… "Fly Casting with Lefty Kreh" ($29.95) and "All New Fly Casting Techniques", also Lefty Kreh ($19.95) Both Joan Wulff and Lefty Kreh are renouned for their casting ability. I couldn’t give you a clue on how to choose one over the other, as they are all excellent–but different. If you don’t mind spending the $, get Joan’s and one of Lefty’s.  It would be worth it. Lauren Hart, Brazos FlyFishers  http://www.brazosflyfishers.com Check out our Spring Specials posted on our website!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any thoughts on the best of the intermediate casting videos?  I need to debug my casting and would like to try this before investing in an instructor.  mike

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Question:

Horrocks-Ibbotson was one of the most prolific rod makers, making rods at a variety of quality levels and price points. I’m not familiar with the Thunderbird model, but if you can describe the inscriptions, decals, wraps, reel seat, etc in detail, I might be able to give you some more information. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Hello all ,  I am relatively new to fly fishing and fly tying . Maybe someone can help . I recently picked up a fly rod at a yard sale and I’m looking for help identifying it or the builders . It’s about 6 1/2 ft and looks handmade . On the rod it has written , chrome plated stainless steel guides. It says thermo weld process and then the name Thunderbird with a picture of it looks like an indian or aztec bird.Just above the grip it says tournement taper, rigid butt-sensitive tip . Then it has what I assume to be the co. that built it – looks like Harrocks-Ibberson Co.utica NY made in USA and under that the #1464XL . All this writing looks to be done by hand .If anyone can help me track down the company that made it or give me any information at all ,  I would be grateful . Thanks

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. net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam -

Question:

Ron To get the best traction on a wet surface (a boat ramp) look for an all season tire with a high volume of tread surfaces.  This type of tire will have a lot of tiny cuts in the tread design.  When the tire is stressed pulling a load, this type of tread will flex and the edges of these cuts will grip the road surface.  Do Not consider the course off road tread design!  It has the worst hard surface traction. You should also be very light on the gas pedal.  A posi traction differential is also a big help if it is kept maintained and the clutches adjusted. Would you believe I pull a 3800 lb boat up steep boat ramps with a chev s-10 with no problems? Good Luck Wayne

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The next time this happens, try letting some air out of the rear tires – enough to increase the footprint somewhat. Be sure to air up again at the first opportunity. (Longrigger) writes: | Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. | I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone | and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. | | Longrigger

    Try pulling up the anchor on the boat…  (I couldn’t resist!)     No, really…  Tire pressure helps a ton, and the start of the pull is the most important part.  Once underway, roll into the throttle, but maintain traction…  (I think that all of the answers I have read here would help.)     …Sam

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in

Well iv been towing several different boats for many years and with different car’s here’s my $.01 worth. My last boat is a 3500 -4000 lbs boat and trailer, and iv towed it with my four cylinder turbo 5 speed (not many times) it did well no spinning. But now it has posi and very good traction tires on the rear. I now use a 87 jeep cherokee with a posi and BF comp TA’s works very well. Also on thing to remember is your toung weight. My toung weight is over 250+ lbs , thats why I went to the jeep. At first the jeep was a standard rear end and there was some slipping but since the posi the only time it skips is if I jump on the gas to hard. Does any one out there remember the rule of thumb on toung weight? It’s some % of your total weight should be your toung weight. And this also helps if you have to slow your boat down real fast on the hwy. bye

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower.

. . . . Ron Morgan

Since you have more than enough horsepower – if one rear wheel starts to spin, hold the parking brake release open and apply the parking brake.  If you apply hard enough, both wheels will receive power. You can also try stabbing at the parking brake if the engine does not have enough power. Not a sure fire thing.  But it is another trick to but in your bag. Terry Dobie 83 CJ7 Hailey, ID

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I use my Jeep Grand Cherokee to haul my boat.  I learned the hard way that you have to ease into the pull.  I use an awefull ramp in East Falmouth Cape Cod that is always covered in a thin layer of scum.  On one occasion, I was sort of hurried by other boaters waiting to get out of the water and I pulled to fast.  Before I knew it, my tires were spinning and I was moving backward.  OOOOPS!  Thank god I stopped on time.   I now make sure that my air pressure is a little lower (more surface space), and that I ease into the pull.  At this one particular ramp, I often throw handfulls of sand onto the algae to create a little traction.  I read a lot of others posts where sand is the enemy, but in this scenerio, it works well. Good luck David

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit. Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

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*snip* months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan Ron, I have a Full size Dodge Van and have never had a problem pulling the boat up the ramp, except for one occasion. It was a really long and very wet ramp. I was having problems with wheel spin, I remember reading somthing about turning your front tires, (somthing about changing the pull ratio) and also applying the parking brake a bit.

    You must have a non-posi rear end on your van…  The emergency brake trick worked on my ‘91 Dakota when semi-stuck in sand (I had a non-posi rearend).   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Boat pulled right out with out any wheel spin what-so-ever. Good luck. Michael

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

After many years of enjoying the entertainment of watching people pull boats out at a wide variety of ramps throughout the western US, I know this: The initial pull to get a boat up out of the water is substantial, if you think of how hard it is to pull a small water skier up out of the water, imaging something with 30 times the weight and surface tension and bad hydrodynamics (the trailer…not the boat!) Many people think the best approach is to try to accelerate quickly to "get the damn thing going!", so they give their rig too much throttle. Once you break adhesion on a slick surface, you cannot pull a load equivalent to before you spun the wheels.  So if it spins, let off the throttle and let the wheels catch traction.  Then, try again with less acceleration.  Don’t think that spinning your wheels faster will get you up the ramp, ’cause it will only make it harder to get out. As other posts have said, lowering your tire pressure a little will help a lot.  But I have found on most ramps I can get my boat out by just driving a little more gently and not starting the spinning.  I find an auto trans works better, since you can accelerate from a standstill very slowly without having to dump the clutch.  But I have had several trucks with 4 speeds and a couple of 5 speeds.  You just gotta take it easy, and don’t try to pull the boat out fast.

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I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? …        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong!

seems you caught this opportunity nicely That’s the description you find in physics 101, but it doesn’t work well in this case.  It works for flat surfaces in contact (with a few other assumptions).  When you add rough surfaces, compressible and deformable surfaces, and weak surface features (like sand on the ramp) that can withstand only a (smallish) maximum force before breaking away, then surface area and tread play an important role.

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I thought friction was normal force times coefficient of friction.  Nowhere mentioning pressure or area.  Deflation is for soft surfaces where pressure does need to be reduced? pqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpqpq        Grasping another opportunity to be wrong! [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

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Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip!

This isn’t sand on concrete (like a building site) but sand on a concrete boat ramp. All the ramps I’ve seen have been pretty slippery with weed and green gunk. If I used the same ramp every day, I’d scrub the thing clean and use Jeyes fluid or caustic soda on it occasionally to keep the gunk off. I know little about boat ramps, but I do know about silage clamps and slurry lagoons  (bleurgh !) – even for these noxious devices it’s worth doing a bit of scrubbing & hosing occasionally. Failing that, get as big a contact patch as you can. Soft rubber in small tread blocks (not great mud-plugger tread bars) and a low enough pressure to let the tyre flatten as much as is practical. — alt.flame – Making the world a safer place for postal workers.

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How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

        Er, does that imply that your current tires are rather bald?         If so, ‘nuf said.         Relative weight of vehicle and tow is important. (If the wheels         on your trailer are bigger than the wheels on your tow vehicle,         you’re in trouble. Saw a Chicago flatlander trying to tow a large         boat with his Beamer. Didn’t make it.)         In your case, the truck should have enough towing weight, but         the question is about weight on the rear wheels.         o The angle of the ramp tends to transfer more weight to the           rear wheels.         o Tounge weight of the trailer is important.         I am hauling a smaller  14′ runabout (40 horse motor) with a         Ranger pickup in a similar situation. I have no problems.         o I have a stick, so can control things better.         o When I was towing with a station wagon and automatic, I would:            o Put the transmission in second            o Step on the brake            o Give it some gas.            o Use the break as a clutch, slowly easing up so that there              was no jerk in the initial pull. Frank R. Borger – Physicist     ___      "I think medical research would show Michael Reese – U of Chicago   |___       that being a Cubs fan lengthens Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _    your life. Or maybe it just _seems_ ph: 312-791-8075 fa: 791-2517       |_)

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out.

[...]         have you tried deflating the rear tyres a bit?  you’d get a larger         contact area.         andrew —            work phone/fax: 0131 668 8356, office: 0131 668 8357     institute for astronomy, royal observatory, blackford hill, edinburgh                      http://www.roe.ac.uk/ajcwww

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Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well.

There’s a lot coming into play. I find all terrains are significantly better than road tires.  I would assume mudders are even better.  My guess would be that the deep tread actually allows some of the edges of the tread to grip the ramp, cause there’s certainly lower area in contact.  Course that also means greater psi. Another factor is the softness of the rubber.  I would suspect that given two identical tires, the one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.  No-one really complains about sand at a launch ramp. kevin

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Well, since you’re having trouble on boat ramps with your pickup you need more weight on the wheels.  If you can’t get buddies or bystanders to sit in the bed to get more weight on the rear wheels, try some of that water in 5 gallon pails (like paint pails).  If you’re in salt water you’ll want lids to keep the water out of the bed; in fresh water that’s not a problem.  10 x 5 gal x 8 lbs/gal is 400 lbs, enough to help quite a bit.  Nice thing about this is you don’t need to drag the extra weight around afterwards, and it’s likely to be available wherever you launch your boat .   — Bart Smaalders                  Solaris Performance     SunSoft http://playground.sun.com/~barts                    2550 Garcia Ave                                                         Mt View, CA 94043-1100

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he one with the lower tread life would be better. You could also get a bit wider tires.  I’ve also seen people with a bucket of sand they toss out to get a better grip.

Man, sand on concrete can REALLY cause you to slip! Sand on ICE is ok but no sand is better on non-frozen concrete. George Bonser

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How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

Wide, sticky tires in my opinion. Though they spread the weight out more, there is more surface for gripping. It will reduce fuel economy somewhat though.  Also, I would worry more about hydroplaning on FRONT wheels where you could loose steering control. You might try putting some weight over that axle or letting 5lb of air out if you get stranded. George Bonser

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

I stuck my truck in Galveston Bay this way.  My solution was to buy an old CJ5.  Now I drop into 4 wheel drive in low range.  And no problem. A cheaper alternative is to mount a trailer ball on the front which keeps those rear wheels way up out of the water. cfly — Charlie and Dorothy Fly Non-Trivial Solutions 2951 Marina Bay Dr. Suite 130-349 League City, TX  77573-2733

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. Ron Morgan

Ron – When you buy your tires, make sure you get a better traction rating.  Talk to the tire dealer about traction ratings and wet pavement.  He may help you out tremendously. (Softer tires may wear quicker.) Other solutions to consider can make a big difference :         1. Put a couple hundred pounds of sand bags or blocks in the                 very back of the truck.  Spinning can be caused by not                 enough weight on the rear wheels.         2. Adjust your boat on the trailer to increase the tongue weight                 of the trailer (not to an extreme).  With the boat further                 on the trailer, you will get more weight on the truck tires.         3. Next truck, get limited slip differential to use both back wheels instead of one. Good luck and may all your ramps be dry ones, Joe

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Have your buddies jump in the back of the truck to give it wieght. I have stuck the floor mats in front of the tires once when I was alone and got stuck, but sand would be alot better. Longrigger

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Almost everybody I know has had the same problem with some combination of boats, ramps and tow vehicles. I have better traction on my jeep since I moved up on tire size. The tires are all weather radials. I can still spin all 4 tires if the ramp is mucky enough. Just having new tires will make a difference because the rubber will be softer and the thicker tread will be more compliant than on the older tires. My neighbor mounted a hitch ball on the front bumper of his 2WD truck which let him keep his rear tires high and dry. This can be particularly important at low tide, especially on ramps in estuaries that tend to silt up and/or grow moss. I carried a 20 foot heavy duty tow rope for several years untill the size of my tow vehicle caught up with my boat. I have also seen tongue extensions used for the same purpose. Many sailboaters use these because a keelboat has to be sent WAY back before it will float off the trailer. They either telescope out of the trailer tongue or are carried along side. Some of them even have their own wheels on them that will take much more abuse than a standard trailer jack wheel. My jeep has mushy rear springs and a short wheelbase, so I don’t run with much tongue weight. You can usually run much more tongue weight on a real truck like yours. 300 or 400 lbs of tongue weight, if you are not already running that much, could do a lot for your traction problems. Check with the truck manufacturer to see what they recommend.                                                 vaaler

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& Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 & pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The & boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, & of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. & Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off & other boats that were just pulled out. & My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these & conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, & the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, & very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being & stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that & boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an & inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what & kind of wear this produced on my transmission. You don’t say what the truck is, but does it have a limited slip differential (pozi-trac, sure-grip, etc)?  If not that would get you double the traction.  They can be added to many of the trucks out there. Hewlett Packard              (707) 794-4848 fax      (707) 538-3693 home 1212 Valley House Drive      http://web.sr.hp.com/~frankb/ Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999   KC6WUG, AMA, DoD #7566, NMLRA, I’m the NRA. U.S.A.              Dodge V8 Dakota, Yamaha IT175 XT350 YZF600R Seca 750

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

    Ron I had the same ‘problem’ with my old truck (‘91 Dakota with limited slip).  I would put up a slippery ramp and one tire would spin (no posi!)…  I helped the situation by putting all of the crap in the back of the truck that was in the boat, to put more weight over the rear tires (Coolers, skis, gas cans, clothes, etc.)  This made a difference.  I don’t know what type of truck you have, or if it has posi, but with my NEW ‘95 Dakota w/posi + 5 speed I am able to pull that same boat, with all of the crap still in the boat, with no problem out of the same ramp.  I do run a lower tire pressure, as this tends to put more rubber onto the ground, giving more traction.  You might try that too…(it wouldn’t hurt).       BTW  If you didn’t already know this, when pulling out of a boat ramp with a automatic trans, and you work pretty hard to pull that boat up (any pull should be considered) the ramp, make sure you don’t pull up to the staging area and shut off your truck while securing you boat. All of the heat generated by the pull will not leave the transmission (as it didn’t get cooled yet by the transmission cooler)…and can cause a lot of wear/tear/damage to your transmission.  My bone-head friend went through 2 transmissions over 2 seasons going to the Colorado river with his boat.  Every time he got it out of the water he would shut down, secure the boat, then take off…with an air temp of about 110 F. that truck would almost boil the transmission fluid!!!  He learned.     I got a 5 speed ( no cooler needed!), and it works a lot better than a automatic (at least for me it does).     My $.02     ..Sam

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Conditions: a standard half-ton truck, attempting to pull a 3,000 pound fishing boat up a fairly steep concrete launch ramp. The boat is on a 4-wheel trailer in good condition. The truck is, of course, rear-wheel drive, and has more than enough horsepower. Special consideration: the ramp is *wet*, due to water dripping off other boats that were just pulled out. My truck can just BARELY pull the boat up the ramp under these conditions. If it’s dry, no problem, but when the ramp is wet, the tires slip and spin, sometimes even smoking. It’s a very, very marginal situation. Last night, I came very close to being stranded at a deserted ramp after dark; I could *not* get that boat up that ramp, and finally made it up after creeping about an inch at a time, before the tires would slip. God only knows what kind of wear this produced on my transmission. Question: what kind of tire tread design would provide the *most* friction? Knobby, off-road type, or a smoother "pavement" type? Remember, by the way, that this is extremely low-speed operation, just barely turning, in fact, so concepts like "hydroplaning" probably wouldn’t apply here. We’re talking about pulling a load up a wet concrete surface. How about it, you guys? I need to buy new tires for my truck in another couple of months, and I’d appreciate some input. In addition, I think it’d make an interesting discussion topic, as well. Ron Morgan

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Question:

Is there a ".marketplace" version of this newsgroup?  I was told that there is but I can’t find it. Thanks

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I just caught up on some of the previously posted stuff and I now realize that my buddy was encouraging me to vote FOR a NEW newsgroup (the "marketplace" version I was wondering about). Therefore….nevermind. Dave

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