Question:

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too. vince norris

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Here in central PA we have a high regard for George.  I’m glad to hear he’s well thought of way out in Wyhoming, too.

Who do Pennsylvanians hold in higher regard – Joe Humphreys or George Harvey?

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Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. (snip) Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person .

You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? If you fish dries with a hand-built leader, you’re probably using a Harvey leader formula. He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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You’ve never heard of George Harvey ?!?? He’s one of the giants of fly fishing. If you’ve never heard of him, perhaps you should get out more.

‘Twas only intended as a riff on a momentary misread of a G.G. post, Rusty. But, hey, if you’re volunteering to get me out more often — especially to a happenin’ bar where the chicks are all ready to discuss George Harvey leader formulas for the price of a shot of Yukon Jack and a beer back  – I’m on the next plane to Laramie, a copy of Leader Calc on a floppy diskette in my shirt pocket and Ernie Harrison’s Blood Knot Machine on a lanyard around my neck. We’ll slay ‘em Rusty…just slay ‘em! get me to a brewery, – sid

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Tom?  I only wish I could remember all the numbers and percentages he laid on me.  He had a lot to say about it.  I told Mr. G.H. I would understand it better seeing it in print. Again, like you said, Sir Harvey is a very interesting man.  I’m interested in this new idea of his also. Mr.G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

– (C) George Gehrke 2001 http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html     fine bamboo flyrods & blanks

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Brutes lives!

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GG describing G Harvey: George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision.

Despite this, and other ravages of age, the man still is one of the highlights of the annual flytying symposium here in the East. Truly, one of the greats of fly fishing and tying. I will be interested to see his new thinking on leaders, as I use his older formulae for my dry fly leaders(or a cheesy approximation of them). I am not sure that S-curves should flow continuously from line through leader, as it sets up too much slack. I think his original idea, which yields a lot of slack in the last 3 feet of the leader, works quite well. However, anything this man has to say will be of interest.                               Tom L

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Since I was just skimming ROFF, it took me a while to realize that the G man was actually recounting an interaction with someone else named "George" when he posted the snippets included below. Oddly enough, the whole passage reads more believably as the Ginkster’s perpetual internal dialogue momentarily externalized for the rest of us to wonder at. When read this way, the entire post takes on the slightly narcotic quality of a daily affirmation, repeated daily in the mirror, the better to weather the slings and arrows of outrageous roffians. Primo stuff, George! I always suspected you referred to yourself in the third person . – sid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George

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According to George Harvey, he has developed a wonderful new formula and concept for finicky trout where one would need as much slack as possible to get a long drift without drag.  George said he wrote an article on it that will be coming out soon in Flyfisherman’s Magazine.  There is a new formula he uses along with soft mono and the butt section is made of three tapering pieces and the entire leader is made from soft nylon or mono so the entire leader can be made to respond to an S-cast which now includes the entire leader besides the fly line.   Mr. Harvey called me this morning to discuss other matters, and he also owns a Bastard Bamboo which he will be using opening day next week in PA. Where he fishes, he reported that one of the large fish he has seen in the past died of natural causes.  It was measured at 32.5 inches and weighted over 12 pounds besides being a LARGE Rainbow.  A fish that, for any fly fisherman, would be a trophy of a life time.  "Imagine it!?"  I told George, I just tied a complete Royal Wulff on a size #32 dry fly hook on a dare!  He chuckled and said, we must fish together this year. "I’ll see you May or June, George." "I’ll save the room for you George.  Can’t wait." "We can even tie flies together again," he offered. George’s eyesight is failing as the clinic screwed up one eye when removing a cataracts, so he has lost some depth perception and cannot tie flies for very long before the eye strain becomes singular vision. God, I love this man!  He is so precious. George — http://www.gink.com "the saga continues"

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Question:

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Thanks James

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Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod?

Cabelas has a great return policy so I suggest buying one and trying it. Maybe you can do a side by side comparison with a pricier rod. Remember, a rod needs to suit you. Peter G. Aitken

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Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod?

Lefty Kreh says any rod over $200 casts better than almost everyone buying it. Is it "as good as"?  Depends on what you mean.  For all practical purposes, if the action of the rod suits your style, it could be as good as or better than a $430 rod.  More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Regards, Jeff

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More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value.

Amem brother, last weekend I was looking at some pricy Orvis stuff and noticed the tip sections were all a bit warped and twisted. No way I’d pay that price for a rod that wasn’t straight and true, even if I can’t cast good enough to do the rod justice. Flyfish

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Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Lefty Kreh says any rod over $200 casts better than almost everyone buying it. Is it "as good as"?  Depends on what you mean.  For all practical purposes, if the action of the rod suits your style, it could be as good as or better than a $430 rod.  More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Regards, Jeff

Lefty actually says any rod over $100! Peter G. Aitken

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More money buys you a label, usually better fit and finish but not always, and better resale value. Amem brother, last weekend I was looking at some pricy Orvis stuff and noticed the tip sections were all a bit warped and twisted. No way I’d pay that price for a rod that wasn’t straight and true, even if I can’t cast good enough to do the rod justice.

One thing to consider is that some rods come with a guarantee against breakage regardless of the cause. I have heard for example that if you break an L.L.Bean rod and call them, then if FedEx can find you, you will have a replacement the next day. This is a practical reason to pay a bit more for a rod, particularly if you are a klutz like me. Peter G. Aitken

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One thing to consider is that some rods come with a guarantee against breakage regardless of the cause. I have heard for example that if you break an L.L.Bean rod and call them, then if FedEx can find you, you will have a replacement the next day. This is a practical reason to pay a bit more for a rod, particularly if you are a klutz like me.

Yeah you’re right, I left that out.  That’s an important point.  A lot of the "top dollar" rods offer that and it’s nothing to sneeze at! Regards, Jeff

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The only guarantee I would ever pay extra money for, is if they guarantee that I will live a hundred years to fish with it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Lefty actually says any rod over $100!

Now that you hold me to it, I can’t remember where I read it.  What book is that from?  Thanks, Jeff Regards, Jeff

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The only guarantee I would ever pay extra money for, is if they guarantee that I will live a hundred years to fish with it.

Sure, I’ll give you that guarantee. If you die you can sue me! Peter Aitken

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It is in Advanced Fly Fishing Techniques – a terrific book, by the way, for those who have not read it. Peter Aitken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lefty actually says any rod over $100! Now that you hold me to it, I can’t remember where I read it.  What book is that from?  Thanks, Jeff Regards, Jeff

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I think Cabela’s uses Loomis blanks for their higher priced rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Cabela’s FT flyrods. I was thinking of the 9′ 9 weight for casting big pike flies and for salmon etc. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is and whether they are really a fast action rod like they claim and what a comparable name brand would be. They claim to save you as much as $200 because they don’t sell their name. Does that mean that the $230 FT 9′ 9 weight is as good as a $430 name brand rod? Thanks James

Response:

Cabela’s FT flyrods. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is

Call Cabela’s and ask them!  That’s what I did.  I bought a nice 7 1/2 ft 4 wt several years ago that was made by Loomis. Sig Chicago

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Cabela’s FT flyrods. I’d just like to know who the manufacturer is Call Cabela’s and ask them!  That’s what I did.  I bought a nice 7 1/2 ft 4 wt several years ago that was made by Loomis. Sig Chicago

Some time back I did ask them.  They refused to say.  A while back they were selling a very excellent fly reel that I thought was probably made by Ross.  They wouldn’t say on that one either.  Even though I was looking for parts they couldn’t supply.

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Question:

Planning a mid October trip and havent’t yet decided between: A) Green River in Utah B) San Juan in New Mexico The trip would be approximately 1 week with two other guys. We are just not sure based upon the weather and fishing conditions. Our budget precludes the possiblility of hiring guides. We are best described as "intermediate"; I guess. Need to get tickets very soon. Appreciate any informed advice. Thanks in advance!

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Planning a mid October trip and havent’t yet decided between: A) Green River in Utah B) San Juan in New Mexico The trip would be approximately 1 week with two other guys. We are just not sure based upon the weather and fishing conditions. Our budget precludes the possiblility of hiring guides. We are best described as "intermediate"; I guess. Need to get tickets very soon. Appreciate any informed advice. Thanks in advance!

Hiya Jerry, I know its way off what you’re talking about … but – ever thought of fishing in southern Africa?. We’ve got probably the strongest, fastest, freshwater fish on earth – the tiger fish – as well as some outstanding saltwater sport. Trey Combs thought Mozambique was real special in his book Bluewater Fly Fishing. Our fully-inclusive Orvis-Endorsed expeditions start from around $3200 for an eight night tour: flights, guides, accommodation, boats, fuel, taxes – the whole thing except for booze. You can call me Toll-Free in Johannesburg on 888 2461750 or e-mail to: details. Tight lines Mark

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Question:

I’m investigating a position in Baker, Oregon and have been told by the recruiter that the flyfishing is "the best in the country".  I don’t know if anyone in Last Chance, ID or Steamboat, OR or Flaming Gorge, UT would disagree but I’d love to hear from someone who has fished in the creeks, rivers and lakes around Baker.  You can e-mail me at Ken

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Ken, All fishing in Oregon is highly over rated.  The population has grown so fast that most streams and lakes are depleted except for the odd truckload of planters dumped  in every now and then to satisfy the bloodlust of recently arrived new Oregonians.  Recruiters are frequently reduced to lying in order to seduce those in search of a lifestiyle and environment that disappeared long ago.  The real action is in Colorado where guys like Moe Skeeter and Walleye Miller have taken steps to insure that fish are plentiful and anglers are few. I’m investigating a position in Baker, Oregon and have been told by the recruiter that the flyfishing is "the best in the country".  I don’t know if anyone in Last Chance, ID or Steamboat, OR or Flaming Gorge, UT would disagree but I’d love to hear from someone who has fished in the creeks, rivers and lakes around Baker.  You can e-mail me at Ken

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tomn McGuane

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Question:

I am new to FF and live in the Lynchburg area. I am looking for those who would like to swap stories, go cast flys, or trade favorite spots. Ralph Browning

Ralph, How long have you been flyfishing? My wife bought me my rod about 2-3 years ago, and I’ve been hooked ever since. I live a short distance from the Shenandoah, and the Potomac rivers in Loudoun County; the smallmouth fishing is superb. What kind of fishing do you like to do? You’ve got plenty of it right near where you live also. I’ve ventured off into the Blue Ridges several times chasing small mountain brookies, and loved it. VA is a state where you can find fish about anyplace you think you might. This year was tough with all the rain we had and the flooding. Life preservers were the local fly patterns. Seriously, I’m hoping the weather is more "normal" in 1997. We saw the local rivers rise to alarming heights. I went out on some of the local creeks and small streams and hardly recognized them afterward. Some of my favorite deep pools were now sand bars, and visa-versa. There were just incredible log jams and flood damage. Funny thing though…the fish were all there pretty much where they were before. How do they do that? Keith in Waterford, VA (near Leesburg)

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I am new to FF and live in the Lynchburg area. I am looking for those who would like to swap stories, go cast flys, or trade favorite spots. Ralph Browning

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Question:

=2E. Struggle in Sedona .. Below is an editorial from Fred Johnson published last week in Sedona Red Rock News …

"It’s symbolic of his struggle agains reality!"  - John Cleese, Monty Python’s Life of Brian

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=2E. Struggle in Sedona .. Below is an editorial from Fred Johnson published last week in Sedona Red Rock News … Fred is good man and has done an admirable job of defining the issues involved with our Struggle in Sedona. Let=92s carry Fred=92s concept of  community approval for USFS land trades one step further, send me email and register =93your two cents worth=94 so that we may provide your opinion (support of no more land trades) to the USFS at the next meeting.  Let=92s face it, when the USFS trades land, these trades affect not just Sedona — they affect the entire world. Let’s not loose one more trail or tree. Let’s not loose one more bit of scenery. Let’s not loose one more bit of open space. Our forests are Public land and should remain public — not condos, not minimarts, not resorts, not wastewater treatment facilities (the USFS gave the city a couple hundred acres for one of these a few months ago) … We have one more week before we submit our local/national/global opinion to the USFS. Send us your letter today.  Thank you for your email, your support and your time. Tell a freind … Fred=92s editorial follows … Forest Service Land Trades Fly in the Face of the Public                                 by Fred Johnson The Forest Service Ideas for the Future statement addresses some concerns about land trades with sympathetic and soothing words and limited accommodation to past issues. However, the Forest Service still persists in desiring land acquisition by exchanges, regardless if such exchanges results in commercial and residential development, environmental denudation of the area transferred and unhappy public reaction. The Forest Service statement misses three strong expressions of public concern: The Sedona Community Plan, which in effect aims for the end of land exchanges that result in commercial development; The Sedona Forum, which identified major conflicts centered around the rate of growth, management of that growth and the primary issue being land trades for private development; and The many vocal written testaments against land trades, made and given at meeting in preparation for this management plan and at public hearings involving past land trades. The Forest Service position for maintaining land trade decision authority flies in the face of all the above.  It is also out of step with the General Goals (pg 29 Ideas for the Future): =93We strive to make decisions that reflect the connection of the community with the forest – recognizing the importance of the forest to citizens for …. open space and scenery …=94 And later, reference to land patterns of private and public ownership that meets the needs of the community and the forest. And item 7 on page 32 involving =93maintaining lands as public lands where important for community natural opens space values. =93Where important community values exist, forest lands will not be considered for trade.=94 These latter statements strongly indicate the need and justification for a local =93say=94 in matters. These all indicate that not only is local voice in order, but local acceptance should be required when the local public and community are affected by the loss of nearby national forest lands, its denudation and development for commercial and private purposes. It must be realized that land trades can mean a loss of open space in communities. Also, the increase in the land development base is unpopular in a community that wishes to keep a =93small town=94 atmosphere. Our voices count.  We are part of the ecosystem, too. Accordingly, I inject my request for local, public approval of all land trades that result in National Forest land being made eligible for commercial and residential development. In such instances, scoping, public hearing, discussion and agreement by formal or informal referrendums hould be required prior to processing the trade. Do others share my opinion? If you could like, copy and email the letter of support below and I will forward your email to the USFS at the next meeting.  Thank you for your support. HELP US SAVE THE FORESTS! HELP US SAVE SEDONA If you support Hiking Opportunities, If you support Biking Opportunities, If you support Camping Opportunities, If you support Climbing Opportunites, If you support Fishing Opportunities, If you support Equestrian Opportunities, If you support any Outdoor Opportunity, If you like Sedona, If you like Arizona If you like the Forest, If you like Nature … Write your own letter or copy and mail the passage below  … Thanks for your help. Rama Dear Forest Service Folks, I am opposed to ALL land trades in and around the Sedona area.  Please register my opinion and take it into consideration as you construct your =93Ideas for the Future=94 …         Name …         Age …         State …         City …         Country …

Response:

Question:

That Medico-Legal Seminar you mentioned is a great deal. I attended one they sponsored on Abaco last year. The material and the bonefishing was super.

Response:

Peace & Plenty Bonefish Lodge, Bahamas, will be the site of the second 1996 Medical-Legal-Dental Update; CME CAT.1 approved with extensive CLE and CDE accreditation. In late June, the third 1996 seminar will be held at Five Rivers Lodge, Montana. Great fishing,superior accommodations; important  20 hour seminar presented by American Educational Institute. Also, later in year; Alaska for trout and salmon, Mexico for bass. email International

Response:

Peace & Plenty Bonefish Lodge, Bahamas, will be the site of the second 1996 Medical-Legal-Dental Update; CME CAT.1 approved with extensive CLE and CDE accreditation. In late June, the third 1996 seminar will be

<…blah, blah, blah I want one of these things for part-time, untenured English teachers.   We’d have a lot more fun, and we’d give the guides a lot less trouble.

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Question:

intersted in some info

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In general, I think we’re in for some pretty high water this spring. Nothing scientific to back this up, but the last time I was over was they already had the river up near summer flow. It was interesting to see the river run clear with so much water (no irrigation returns yet), but it was tough wading, especially when I was expecting nice, low winter flow.l

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Al- I think someone else has already gone through the bureaucratic stuff to submit for a fly tying newsgroup, and the application is being considered. I have seen several postings about it on this newsgroup, though I can’t remember the name of the person who is doing it. As I recall there will be an election period pretty soon when people register their votes by e-mailing the newsgroup folks.I would check it out before doing it yourself. Good Luck! (I love your tying wax!) Steve Rosenblum

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Al- I think someone else has already gone through the bureaucratic stuff to submit for a fly tying newsgroup, and the application is being considered. I have seen several postings about it on this newsgroup, though I can’t remember the name of the person who is doing it.

That would be me.  The official RFD period began Feb. 20 and we’ve got about a week to go.  Look for the Call-for-votes soon. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I’m going to be doing some work around mile 120 of the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon later this month.  I’ve heard that there is reasonably good fishing above Navajo Bridge where the water’s pretty clear, but there has to be some decent fish in the lower sections.  Has anyone fished this area of the Colorado with any luck? George Tate

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You’ve got my support, and I’m sure most of the subscribers to THIS group! Just let us now how we can help support your endeavor!! Sean Clark Colorado

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Hi Dennis I guess we just keep plugging away and hope it comes to pass. The futher I get into it the more it seems like dealing with the government. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Wow.  No repsonses to this yet?  I’m amazed!  Go for it, Al!  I for one would really like to see it.  As the ISP wars heat up, some are carrying more and more newsgroups, without allocating more disk space.  It’s good advertising, I’m sure, but it decreases the time before messages scroll off the disk, and become unavailable.  I think that the end result of a new newsgroup would help to alleviate that problem for a lot of people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi fellow fly tiers, I just checked the "news.groups" and got the following information on starting a newsgroup: usenet/creating-newsgroups/part1." The information I read said it could take as long as three months to get a new group up and running. It is also very important to "vote" in the proper newsgroup. I’ll let this group know where and when after I receive my email from the above address. Maybe we will bet lucky! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

– — Greg Metcalfe                         |  The secret is getting URL http://www.proaxis.com/~biosphere |        Usually.  

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Yo Al, I sincerely hope that it come to pass.  If there is anything that I can do to be of asistance, please contact me.  The fly fishing group seems to be getting worse every day.

How so?, being a "NEWBIE" I would hate to tick/piss-off/make angry any of the "ESTABLISHED" members of this forum. I don’t know how much longer I can take it. Yippi tie one on! AuSable1 (aka Dennis Potter)

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You’ve got my vote when you need it!

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Mine too.  I’ve sent a request to the AOL news group guru asking for one. Maybe this will help.

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Mine too.  I’ve sent a request to the AOL news group guru asking for one. Maybe this will help.

Not if we want a Usenet newsgroup in one of the standard seven hierarchies. The whole reason for following guidelines for new group creation is to prevent one site from creating "unofficial" groups.  You could probably get a chat room or something created on AOL but only AOL users would see it. I checked in news.groups and found out the deal regarding the RFD that I posted awhile back.  The Call-For-Votes must be posted withing 60 days of the end of the Request-For-Discussion period.  Since that is the case here I’m going to post a 2nd RFD.   Here is what will happen… I will post a RFD to news.groups with a crosspost to news.announce.newgroups, rec.outdoors.fishing, and it’s subgroups.  That will get the ball rolling once again.  I was told that for a 2nd RFD only a couple of weeks of discussion is necessary.   After the discussion period, *and* if there seems to be a consensus that a Call-For-Votes should be posted I’ll post the CFV to the same groups. The CFV will include an email address and instructions on how to vote. Once the voting period completes we will notified if the group passes or not (requires 100 more Yes votes than No votes).  If the group passes the group will be created a couple of weeks later. NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE Posting that you vote "yes" (or no) to this newsgroup or any other is a waste of time.  The vote will not be counted.  I’ve mentioned this three times now but people continue to offer their votes.  I will repost the RFD after I send this message.  At that point the discussion period will begin again.  Once again, it will serve no purpose to post I vote yes for the flyfishing group here.  The discussion period is not for voting.  It is for discussion whether a Call-For-Votes should be posted and why or why not the creation of the group would be a good idea.   — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Response:

The definitive book on custom rod building is : Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens publisher is Winchester Press. Can be bought through any mail order catalog that sells rod building supplies. — Dave

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In my opinnion "Start to Finish Fly rod Building" (50 pages) published by the FlexCoat Company is more than sufissient to do a very good first-time job. If you fall in love with rod building you can buy the more comprehensive stuff. I bought it from Anglers Workshop, WA. Good Luck Jan errik Frithjofsen I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Jan Erik Frithjofsen

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I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking

through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building<< A very good book with excellent photographs of the building process including many close ups  is Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod by Louis Garcia, published by Frank Amato Publications, it sells for $15.95.  This is an excellent book for the first time builder.  It walks you through the process from start to finish in a clear and precise manner. A.G.W. Manchester, NH

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I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

A good book is one by Skip Morris on building graphite fly rods.  Also check mail order houses who specialize in rod building (e.g., Dale Clemens in Allentown, PA)

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: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras?

Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

Response:

: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

I have had great sucess with the thinner of the two Flex Coat formulations.. After you build a rod them away. Replacement syringes are cheap insurance.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods!

I am surprised that no one commented on a simpler solution to pulling the thread through and cutting it off with a sharp knife/ razorblade/ X-acto knife/ etc. You can use the same method but leave the end of the thraed rather short, let’s say 1/8th. of an inch. If you pull this short end back under the last 10 wraps or so none of it will come out and you won’t have to bother with trimming the end off or singing it or having an unsightly stump. It may not always work but it really is quite simple. Good luck! Tom Hackmann

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

I have a question about the two part epoxy. I built two rods and the first one went fine because I used the syringes provided with the Crystal Coat to measure the two parts. The second rod is still tacky after 4 months, probably because the measurement of the Coat was incorrect. Why? Because the two measuring syringes were all gunked up from the first use.  So two questions. 1. How do you clean the syringes? No I didn’t mix the two. 2. Where do you buy new syringes without buying an entire new package of Clear Coat?

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I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

The directions on the Flex Coat I’ve been practicing with says not to clean the syringes.  I think it says to simply store them seperately in air tight containers.  I have not gone back to look at them since I put them in zip lock baggies, so I’m not sure if I’ll face the same problem you had or not.  As far as extras, the mail order companies (e.g. Angler’s Workshop, Jans) seem to have the best prices on these type of supplies.

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—— snip ——- : : I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? I was told by the guys at Flexcoat to use alcohol to clean the syringes. I have also read in Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens that you can thin the Flexcoat up to 15% to make it thiner. I store my syringes in mid-stroke after cleaning. Oh, Netcrafter’s sells them seperately including the mixing cups. Keep your feet dry, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Andy If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

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: Andy : : If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly : recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very : pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make : the job easier. : : To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, : then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. : : To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to : make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or : so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end : of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. : Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the : thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no : end showing. : : Just take your time, nothing is difficult. : : Chuck Chuck, I agree with every thing you have read, and I used to wrap that way. I had seen a wrapping tool in Herter’s catalog back in the late forties that I copied. This Christmas my kids gave me a Flo-coat wrapping tool. You don’t need it but it is nice. Netcrafter has them in their cat cheap. The thing I found was a copy of L.A. Garcia’s book "Hand crafting a Graphite Rod". It has some very nice photos (examlpes) of tools that can be copied. Something worth making _or_ purchasing is a whip finisher. I would never use a razor blade to cut the line for fear pf nicking the graphite and setting up a stress point for a fracture. Garcia states that if you pull evenly on the finisher and the thread end, the thread will break and in the process the finisher will come out also. Instead of using the same thread to tug the whip under the wrap, I’d suggest some monofiliment of about 15 lb. Just some additional thoujghts, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods! Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wooden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing.

Consider that a wooden dowel will behave differently wrt absorption of the epoxy/varnish and wrt the way the wraps slide (and are manipulated) on the blank. It is always better to practice on something as close to the target as possible; it is always better to practice on something than not to practice at all. — Office:     Denver, Colorado  1-303-595-2864 Home:       Bailey, Colorado

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Thought I’d add a couple of things. See below. snip Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs.

One of the keys to working with Flex-coat type finishes or other epoxies is consistent temperature.  I like to work in the 75 degree (F) range and keep an aquarium thermometer on my work surface.  A normal desk lamp will keep the temp consistent and can its height can be adjusted accordingly (if your epoxy starts smoking, your area is too hot )  Keep the light on throughout the curing process.   Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

So he uses the guitar string to cut the thread?  I think I’ll stick to a razor blade.  The blade should cut the thread with the slightest touch.  If it doesn’t, change blades.  On wraps in general, be consistent from guide to guide. Keep count of the number of turns.  If you take 10 turns before jumping on to the foot, do it on all the guides the same way.  Attention to detail is key. Relax, your rod’s going to fish fine when you’re done.   Ross

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 My question is:  instead of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wodden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing. The most difficult aspect of the process, IMO, is wrapping, especially if you are fussy about appearance.  Which leads to your last question: I haven’t heard of that technique before, but it sounds like it will result in frayed thread ends sticking out of the wraps.  A neater solution is to pull up on the thread end at a 90 degree angle to the blank and cut with a very sharp exacto knofe as close to the wraps as possible.  More often than not, the cut end is snaps back under the wrap.

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| Hello All: | | my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of | risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice | rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP | | Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   | what should I practice? | Andy OK I was in this position about 8 months ago.  Since then I have built two rods, a Loomis IM6 8′ 6wt and a IMX 9′ 9wt.  I dont think you need to practice on anything cheaper than what you want to fish with.  There is no magic to building a graphite rod, and you really don’t need any of the stands that are sold as wrapping stands.  I used the Morris book which explained everything well enough.  I used the dish method to hold the thread and a Law book for tensioning.  Wraps are comparatively easy to do and you can redo any of them if you feel they are not up to par untill you flex coat them.  I did a couple of wraps on a dowell to get the hang of it.  Finishing a wrap by pulling it under the last 1/2 dozen wraps with another piece of string then I cut it flush with a new X-acto blade.  I can’t tell the diference between my wraps and Loomis Sage et al and I’m pretty picky.  Things get a bit tricky if you want to include embedded trim rings but you probably won’t bother on your first attempt. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is a inlayed wrap of only one thread.         The only thing I havn’t done is apply the flex coat myself (the place I bought everything else will flex coat as a service).  I did buy some and I did a wrap on a section of a metal rod and coat it.  It came out OK not meny bubbles – and I wasn’t being careful in the mixing process – decided to let the store do it because hand turning it was a pain in the you-know-what and I didn’t want to buy a turner then.  I’m currently making a turner out of an old electric clock and I’ll do everything myself next time (I’ll still buy preformed grips). Good luck and have fun. PVM — / Paul V. Moruzzi                                                       | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD)                                     | | Hewlett Packard                           HP Telnet: 1-659-7850       | | 3000 Minuteman Road                           Voice: 1-508-659-7850   | | Andover, Ma.  01810-1099                        Fax: 1-508-685-5372   |

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

The first rod I built was on a cheap ($60) blank from a now defunct company. Everything worked fine, the glue jobs all held, etc., but there were some cosmetic touches that were beyond my capability at the time, so naturally I went on to build another and so on and so :- I don’t get too gaudy, in fact I don’t even use a trim band anymore, but I do like a single inlaid thread at the butt and at each ferrule. At first getting these right was maddening and very time consuming, but failure doesn’t wreck the blank, so you can start over again. By the time I bought a good blank I’d built 3 or 4 rods and it came out exactly like I wanted it to. Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice?

Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs. Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Question:

Well in that case I would like your opinion about it. I have tried it myself, when I ran out of my usual ‘oily-rings-on-the-water-stuff’, and man was I disappointed. Sure, it worked beautifully. For a couple of seconds. But when the fly once been drown, it stayed submerged. I followed then instructions to dry the fly and put some more of that powder on, but this time the fly didn’t even seem to notice the surface. I think the name of the stuff was ‘Dry n Shake’. Bloody expensive too…     Gink forever…./ Hans

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Well in that case I would like your opinion about it. I have tried it myself, when I ran out of my usual ‘oily-rings-on-the-water-stuff’, and man was I disappointed. Sure, it worked beautifully. For a couple of seconds. But when the fly once been drown, it stayed submerged. I followed then instructions to dry the fly and put some more of that powder on, but this time the fly didn’t even seem to notice the surface. I think the name of the stuff was ‘Dry n Shake’. Bloody expensive too…    

I’ve tried Dry Shake this summer and found that it worked fine when fishing in calm water. In moving water the powder  rinsed away to fast. I found out that you must make the fly as dry as possible before putting the stuff on it again. It worked for me. But I’m only using Dry Shake in  calm water. It is very expensive though  (100 Skr for 25 gram).. I’m still looking for the ultimate dry fly floatant! /Mikael — Mikael Andersson                        Ericsson Telecom AB Phone: +46 8 7190794                    KK/ETX/T/BDH Fax:   +46 8 6812626                    S-126 25 Stockholm

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writes: Well in that case I would like your opinion about it. I have tried it myself, when I ran out of my usual

‘oily-rings-on-the-water-stuff’, and man was I disappointed. Sure, it worked beautifully. For a couple of seconds. But when the fly once

been drown, it stayed submerged. I followed then instructions to dry the fly and put some more of that powder on, but this time the fly didn’t even seem to notice the surface. I think the name of the stuff was ‘Dry n Shake’. Bloody expensive too…     Gink forever…./ Hans

If this is the same "Shake’n Dry" stuff that I use, it isn’t meant to be a floatant, it’s supposed to dry off a drowned fly. You have to reapply your favorite floatant after it’s dried. By the way, this stuff is ordinary silica gel dessicant. You can get the same stuff for about 5 bucks (US) a pound at hobby shops. They use it for drying flowers and such. One pound will last you for a lifetime (or get together with some of your fisherman friends and split the cost) the only other thing you need to get is a suitable container (but you already have one since you bought Shake’n Dry). This stuff also works great for cul de canard flies, since you can’t use floatant on them. Darryl

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Have you tried the powder dry fly floatant?   Nntp-Posting-Host: eplu04 Organization: Erisoft AB Umea Sweden Lines: 9 Well in that case I would like your opinion about it. I have tried it myself, when I ran out of my usual ‘oily-rings-on-the-water-stuff’, and man was I disappointed. Sure, it worked beautifully. For a couple of seconds. But when the fly once been drown, it stayed submerged. I followed then instructions to dry the fly and put some more of that powder on, but this time the fly didn’t even seem to notice the surface. I think the name of the stuff was ‘Dry n Shake’. Bloody expensive too…     Gink forever…./ Hans

I have had a similar experience with the dry powder. However, I have found a flotant which is superior, for me, to Gink or Dave’s…. I do a lot of my fly on backpacking trips in the High Sierra of California, where it is pretty cold in the morning. I find Gink, etc. to be VERY viscous to the point of not flowing. I have found some silicone based flotant in Andy Puyan’s fly shop, Creative Sports, in Pleasant Hill Califorinia, which was developed by one of Andy’s fly tying students. The student was a chemist at Dow in nearby Pittsburg, CA. This stuff is the consistency of honey at any temp between 25 and 105 degrees F. I’ts called Andy’s flotant & it works really well for me. Rick Najarian

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I do a lot of my fly on backpacking trips in the High Sierra of California, where it is pretty cold in the morning. I find Gink, etc. to be VERY viscous to the point of not flowing. I have found some silicone based flotant in Andy Puyan’s fly shop, Creative Sports, in Pleasant Hill Califorinia, which was developed by one of Andy’s fly tying students. The student was a chemist at Dow in nearby Pittsburg, CA. This stuff is the consistency of honey at any temp between 25 and 105 degrees F. I’ts called Andy’s flotant & it works really well for me.

Can you give an address/phone number? — Rick

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I do a lot of my fly on backpacking trips in the High Sierra of California, where it is pretty cold in the morning. I find Gink, etc. to be VERY viscous to the point of not flowing. I have found some silicone based flotant in Andy Puyan’s fly shop, Creative Sports, in Pleasant Hill Califorinia, which was developed by one of Andy’s fly tying students. The student was a chemist at Dow in nearby Pittsburg, CA. This stuff is the consistency of honey at any temp between 25 and 105 degrees F. I’ts called Andy’s flotant & it works really well for me. Can you give an address/phone number? — Rick

Dear RW, The shop is: Creative Sports 1924 #C Oak Park Blvd. Pleasant Hill, CA 94253 (510) 938-2255 P.S. "Andy" is Andy Puyans of the "A.P. Nymph series" & this is his fly shop. Naj

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FYI, the guides I’ve talked to in Montana and the Eastern Sierras swear by "Aquel" by Loon.  It seems to hold its consistency well in the heat.

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