Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » Lamiglass lf34 fly reel
This reel seems to have left the market. Anyone have any info about what, where and how I could find another?
This reel seems to have left the market. Anyone have any info about what, where and how I could find another?
Todd Vivian at Lamiglas is a good guy. Drop him a line, he might know of someone who still has some in stock. His email address is: Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » On NY
Thanx Ari Dave
Thanks Ari, Joel Axelrad Joel Axelrad **DFD**
Err, In case that didn’t come through clearly, I’m on the side of the USA.
I don’t think anybody was worried. 
TL and stay safe. — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley
Err, In case that didn’t come through clearly, I’m on the side of the USA. Ari – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -A bit late but I’m just back from Mozambique and I just wanna give every body involved (and even those not) in the last weeks terrible disaster my sincere condolences. Hang in there, guys. It’ll all get sorted out. Ari Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa
Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa
A bit late but I’m just back from Mozambique and I just wanna give every body involved (and even those not) in the last weeks terrible disaster my sincere condolences. Hang in there, guys. It’ll all get sorted out. Ari Ari Bert Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903 +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230 Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax) Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » bamboo rod building and hook making?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G R …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford) It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G?
—— Richard, your so right! I thought stiring stuff about about fly fishing might be able to compete with all the political pot stiring. I see I may have been right… —- Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
I know I said I’d lurk a while without chiming in much, but I can’t resist —- I WANNA BUY A BITCH!!! <BFG
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford) It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
Scrape by? I have a standing order for 1000 blanks. Scrape by? Surely you jest Ackland? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot I know I said I’d lurk a while without chiming in much, but I can’t resist —- I WANNA BUY A BITCH!!! <BFG
See? There are so many spin off’s to my genius. You’re all welcome. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot Did you actually _read_ the quote in your signature? <G …does "Padishar Creel" mean "shit stirrer" in elf<G? —— Richard, your so right! I thought stiring stuff about about fly fishing might be able to compete with all the political pot stiring. I see I may have been right…
Oh, what the hell… You mean you want to hear about the Duke of Erl’s plan to corner the hook market? And awa-a-a-y we go……<G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —– Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?…
You want quality – and quantity? Well, there’s a bankrupt faker living in a single-wide on the Snake River that is bound to respond to your question. However, you should understand that he knows nothing about either. Set mode = ignore for your own sanity.
Scrape by would be the right term to use. Mr. Sage can wrap a $4 piece of Carbon fiber around a mandrel in 5 minutes and get more than you can get for your blanks. Sad but true, Terry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have some pics (somewhere) from a hookmaker in Redditch England and they use a number of very simple machines just dedicated to one task such as forming the eye and one for putting on the bend etc. Cane rods are difficult because cane is a very difficult material to work with and a 4ft strip of cane takes ‘x’ amount of time to machine. There is a feed and speed relationship that cannot be bridged, everything takes time. You can develop machines making it possible to employ an operator for $10 per hour and break the craft down into managable steps (as did Henry Ford) It does not matter how you cut it, cane can never be cheap. If George had any production experience he would not have mouthed off so much before ever building a rod. He really listened to the wrong people. But if he can knock out the blanks at a timely rate and find a market for them which I am sure there is then he can scrape by. Terry What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot Scrape by? I have a standing order for 1000 blanks. Scrape by? Surely you jest Ackland? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take?
Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. So, you buy a Morgan Hand Mill ($2500) and various other tools of the trade (another $1000–I know you could do it for less but if you were making professional quality rods you’d need professional quality tools). Then, you could–once you got a reputation–sell your rods for somewhere between $900 and $1500. Let’s say $1200, with a profit of $1000 per rod. So, let’s say it takes you 40 hours per rod. Assuming a 2000 hour year and unlimited demand, you could sell 50 rods and make an even more whopping $50,000/year. But the key here is unlimited demand. I’d be shocked if there are more than a couple of full-time custom builders making more than $30K/year. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF So why don’t you do this: build ten rods for the fun and experience of it. Since they won’t be perfect rods, give them away. You’ll have a great time, learn some of the tricks of the trade, and a few other folks will get to fish with the fruits of your labors. After you make ten rods, chances are that some of the pleasure will wear off and the reality that making rod-building a profession would be hard, tedious work will begin to set in. Sounds somehow familiar –Steve
Why do I think that there are some folks who already get paid to read ROFF even without having taken a computer training course? Or is that just cynical? ;-) JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some very interesting stuff about bamboo start-up costs snipped. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF
Why do I think that there are some folks who already get paid to read ROFF even without having taken a computer training course? Or is that just cynical? 
Ah, good point. You clearly understand the concept of (mis)using OPM <g. –Steve
What would the investment in equipment be to make high quality: 1. Bamboo Rods 2. Hooks (including a chemical sharpener) I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? I think I will call my new rods…..wait for it…..BITCH yep, that’s it…<g I assume that hooks are made completely by machine. Ummmm, I wonder how much a machine like that costs?… — Padishar Creel "What do we live for if it is not to make life less difficult to each other." – George Eliot
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity.
______ This is the hole in your thesis Steve. "Quality over Quantity" It is now possible and it is now being done here to have both because a machine can do more accurately what a human can do with a plane, and do it a hundred times better. And cheaper. This equates into being a Bastard, I guess. George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. ______ This is the hole in your thesis Steve. "Quality over Quantity" It is now possible and it is now being done here to have both because a machine can do more accurately what a human can do with a plane, and do it a hundred times better. And cheaper. This equates into being a Bastard, I guess. George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
_______ By the way Steve, what are you paying for one Clum of Bamboo now and where are you buying it from? — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat
ND#1
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen some equipment on the web and things like that, but if one wanted to go into production to make Bamboo rods of high quality and low cost, what do you think it would take? Let me put it to you this way… Let’s say you were able to sell 200 bamboo rods per year with a profit (after advertising, components, amortized equipment costs, salaries, etc) of $150 per rod. You’d make a whopping $30,000/year. You could do worse, of course, but there are *lots* of ways to make that much money with fewer startup costs and less risk. So let’s say that rather than trying to start a production line, you make them one-by-one instead. Quality over quantity. So, you buy a Morgan Hand Mill ($2500) and various other tools of the trade (another $1000–I know you could do it for less but if you were making professional quality rods you’d need professional quality tools). Then, you could–once you got a reputation–sell your rods for somewhere between $900 and $1500. Let’s say $1200, with a profit of $1000 per rod. So, let’s say it takes you 40 hours per rod. Assuming a 2000 hour year and unlimited demand, you could sell 50 rods and make an even more whopping $50,000/year. But the key here is unlimited demand. I’d be shocked if there are more than a couple of full-time custom builders making more than $30K/year. You can live off of $30K/year, of course. But you could make more money with less risk by taking a two-month computer training course. Plus you could get paid to read ROFF So why don’t you do this: build ten rods for the fun and experience of it. Since they won’t be perfect rods, give them away. You’ll have a great time, learn some of the tricks of the trade, and a few other folks will get to fish with the fruits of your labors. After you make ten rods, chances are that some of the pleasure will wear off and the reality that making rod-building a profession would be hard, tedious work will begin to set in. Sounds somehow familiar –Steve
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » Cortland 444 Clear Creek lines
0] : Anyone used one of Cortland’s Clear Creek lines? One of the streams I : fish has a lot of fast pocket water and I need to make a lot of short : presentations with short leaders (under 6′) and large, heavily dressed : flies (#14 to #10). The line sounds ideal for this water except that : I’m concernerd that the level tip (about 3′ of running line) won’t : turn over the big flies. : I have been using a blunt Nymph taper to date but I don’t like the : bright orange colour. : Anybody ever tried these lines with big flies? : Cheers I have one and don’t much like it. With that fine tip, there is less mass to load the rod on short casts, which I find rather miserable for short range fishing. Likewise it has a tough time with big flies because that long front taper tends to inhibit the turnover. What it does do well and what it is designed for are presentations where you have got enough line out to load the rod and want a softer landing than a standard line would get. Mike — Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories (remove x’s from email if not Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971 a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491
Dylon – #34 or #35. Mix up a brew – dunk the line (or just the tip) for 10 seconds, remove it … check colour … repeat dunking if necessary. Steve
I thinking about getting an Orvis Quiet Taper to replace it. It’s a double taper (which I like- two lines for the price of one) with a similar long front tip. Anyone have an experience with this line?
I have been using the orvis sprink creek lines for several years, they do have a long front taper and i have found on my T&T rods that using the dt4 on my 3 wgt you get enuf wght out of the rod tip even on 10 to 20 foot casts to load the rod. but since the tip is so long and thin you dont mess up presentation like you would using a wf line on them theese lines seem to acctually weight out more like a 3 1/2 wght rather than a 4 wght with the spring creek dt i can throw size 12 mini clousers 40 to 50 feet with out any problems…. casts in the 50+ foot range the rod starts to feel overloaded however. Steve
That should have been Orvis Spring Creek line.
William I stopped by the local Orvis store and checked out the line. The 15′ front taper sounds great for bigger water but I don’t think it would work as well in fast pocket water. I would imagine it would roll and mend quite well but I can picture have trouble with 12’s and 14’s in the wind. Also, that small tip would be easily sunk by turbulence. One stretch I fish, the stream has a long east-west orientation and it can get like a wind tunnel sometimes. An upstream cast can get blown back at you if the line won’t carry it. Even though the fish tend to be small, I’ve used a four or five weight just because of the conditions at the upper end of this particular stretch of water. I’m leaning toward a gray SA XPS DT. Thanks for the input. Peter
Peter, I reckon any 3wt will be straining to turn bushy #10’s at close range – doesn’t SA make a buff coloured DTF line – maybe you should even consider a 4wt line – and getting your leader right is the other 50% of the answer. I have a Sage RPL+ 3wt 8′6" with a 3wt Teeny DTF (blue/green, blunt taper) – for stream fishing large dry flies I use a 5′ superbraid tapered butt leader with another 4′ of 10lb and 2′ of 6lb. The braid butt leader really helps to generate positive turnover and for the small streams, the short length of the mono part is not really a hindrance (as you said earlier). I don’t know if this type of butt leader is available in North America – mine is locally made. They are a real boon for light rod stream fishing as they turn over very well and can be soaked in liquid floatant to float high everafter without further treatment. Cheers JK
I use a Clear Creek on my 3 weight and like it for slow water and delicate presentation. Its long front fine tip is great for presentation but not as good for fishing bushy flies. I also don’t feel that it wears too well. I’ve had more than average problems with cracking. I thinking about getting an Orvis Quiet Taper to replace it. It’s a double taper (which I like- two lines for the price of one) with a similar long front tip. Anyone have an experience with this line? Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone used one of Cortland’s Clear Creek lines? One of the streams I fish has a lot of fast pocket water and I need to make a lot of short presentations with short leaders (under 6′) and large, heavily dressed flies (#14 to #10). The line sounds ideal for this water except that I’m concernerd that the level tip (about 3′ of running line) won’t turn over the big flies. I have been using a blunt Nymph taper to date but I don’t like the bright orange colour. Anybody ever tried these lines with big flies? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html
presentations with short leaders (under 6′) and large, heavily dressed flies (#14 to #10). The line sounds ideal for this water except that I’m concernerd that the level tip (about 3′ of running line) won’t turn over the big flies.
Peter: I have not tried the Cortland 444 Clear Creek line, but I modified a Wulff TT by cutting 5 feet off the tip and it does great for heavily weighted size 8 streamers for my beloved bluegill. You might try cutting back that level tip six inches at a time till it seems right. You will have a chance to try my modified Wulff 3/4 TT at the Double Naught Clave in May. I think the white color of the Wulff sucks too…I have been thinkiing of dyiing it olive. Big Dale
Peter, I dyed a white elcheapo Cabela’s 3 wt line this summer, haven’t used it that much, but here’s the procedure I used: Rit Dye, closest color available to orange was yellow/orange (or something like that, can’t remember) I boiled water in a glass cooking pot, dumping in the whole pack of dye. Remove from stove and stir it well. Then dumped in the line (loosely coiled) stirring it around for a couple of minutes. Took the line out and laid it out on my back deck to dry. Looks pretty good, not the brilliant orange I wanted, but close enough. FWIW. Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Peter, what about dying your current line? Steve The bright orange is a 5wt. and I’m looking for a line to go with the new 3wt. I’ll be getting for the new season. For the other applicatiojns, the orange isn’t a problem, just this one. Just for future reference though, what sort of dye would you use? Peter
5-6′ off the end of a Wulff TT. The Wulff TT is ivory colored.
Go easy when you start cutting off the end of the line. I would start with 2 feet and try it and then cut off 6 inches at a time. I also have a WF3 line that was designed by Gary LaFontaine and made by Jim Teeney that is a beautiful dull olive color, but must have been designed for very small flies for use on spring creeks. It also has a very fine long taper on the front and I find it useful for size 18 and smaller dry flies, but it would be a poor choice for close in fishing in the pocket water of the small streams of western North Carolina. If someone makes a dull olive line in a double taper with only about 2 feet of level line on the front of the taper I think it would be perfect. I have read of people using a permanent marker in olive on a few feet of their line, but this seems kind of half-assed to me so I have not tried that yet. I am hesitant to go thru the learning curve of dying lines as I think it would be easy to ruin a new line. I know that Craig Matthews of Blue Ribbon Flies used to dye some lines olive for guys that were going to N.Z. a few years ago. I don’t know if he still does that. This could be an area where it woulld be better to pay someone who knows what the hell they are doing. I know I intend to talk with him about this the next chance I get. Perhaps I will be able to catch him in his shop when I go to Montana for the Western Clave next summer. Speaking of the Western Clave for those who tie flies be sure to bring charge cards when you visit his shop as they have a great selection of materials which are simply not available most places. There is a great laundromat across the street from his shop and the last time I was there I dropped a hundred bucks on hen necks while the clothes were in the dryer. Big Dale
Hi Peter, what about dying your current line? Steve
The bright orange is a 5wt. and I’m looking for a line to go with the new 3wt. I’ll be getting for the new season. For the other applicatiojns, the orange isn’t a problem, just this one. Just for future reference though, what sort of dye would you use? Peter
When these wear out I’m going to try Big Dale’s suggestion. Cut 5-6′ off the end of a Wulff TT. The Wulff TT is ivory colored. — Ken Fortenberry
I know it’s supposed to work but hacking the front end of a fly line off just goes against the grain. Last time I tried it, it turned a bad line into a worse one. At least when the TT gets dirty, it’ll be the right colour. Peter
That should have been Orvis Spring Creek line. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use a Clear Creek on my 3 weight and like it for slow water and delicate presentation. Its long front fine tip is great for presentation but not as good for fishing bushy flies. I also don’t feel that it wears too well. I’ve had more than average problems with cracking. I thinking about getting an Orvis Quiet Taper to replace it. It’s a double taper (which I like- two lines for the price of one) with a similar long front tip. Anyone have an experience with this line? Willi Anyone used one of Cortland’s Clear Creek lines? One of the streams I fish has a lot of fast pocket water and I need to make a lot of short presentations with short leaders (under 6′) and large, heavily dressed flies (#14 to #10). The line sounds ideal for this water except that I’m concernerd that the level tip (about 3′ of running line) won’t turn over the big flies. I have been using a blunt Nymph taper to date but I don’t like the bright orange colour. Anybody ever tried these lines with big flies? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html
I’ve got two of these, one in WF3 for a 7.5′ Winston 3wt and one in WF2 for a 7.5′ Orvis 1 wt (your eponymous ) and you are quite right. They don’t work very well with largish or bushy flies. You can lengthen the leader out to 9-12′ and turn over #12’s, but with only 6′ of leader even #14’s are something of a pain in the arse. I use 7.5′ leaders for most of the small stream NC fishing and don’t try to toss anything bigger than #12. — Ken Fortenberry
Ken I suppose a good alternative would be to find a relatively blunt tapered line (7′ and under front taper) in a dull colour. SA used to have a sand coloured line that I thought was a great natural colour as it resembled straw, yet it was visible. So they stopped making it. In that fast pocket water, I often have to make pile casts that can put the end of the fly line in the fish’s window. I’m sure the bright orange is costing me some strikes. Now it’s just a matter of finding one. Peter
Hi Peter, what about dying your current line? Steve
I suppose a good alternative would be to find a relatively blunt tapered line (7′ and under front taper) in a dull colour. …
When these wear out I’m going to try Big Dale’s suggestion. Cut 5-6′ off the end of a Wulff TT. The Wulff TT is ivory colored. — Ken Fortenberry
Anyone used one of Cortland’s Clear Creek lines? … Anybody ever tried these lines with big flies?
I’ve got two of these, one in WF3 for a 7.5′ Winston 3wt and one in WF2 for a 7.5′ Orvis 1 wt (your eponymous ) and you are quite right. They don’t work very well with largish or bushy flies. You can lengthen the leader out to 9-12′ and turn over #12’s, but with only 6′ of leader even #14’s are something of a pain in the arse. I use 7.5′ leaders for most of the small stream NC fishing and don’t try to toss anything bigger than #12. — Ken Fortenberry
Anyone used one of Cortland’s Clear Creek lines? One of the streams I fish has a lot of fast pocket water and I need to make a lot of short presentations with short leaders (under 6′) and large, heavily dressed flies (#14 to #10). The line sounds ideal for this water except that I’m concernerd that the level tip (about 3′ of running line) won’t turn over the big flies. I have been using a blunt Nymph taper to date but I don’t like the bright orange colour. Anybody ever tried these lines with big flies? Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing Tackle » Eastern MA trout
White’s Pond in Concord has great fly fishing. I generally fish it Dave LaCourse
Thanks for the tip. I have fished Whites a couple of times, but with non-fly tackle, and have, in fact, caught rainbows and a brown. I have heard that fishing the deep dropoffs with a fly in summer works, but have not actually tried it. Both Hopkinton Res and Ashland Res are stocked as well, and I’ve been dying to try them. Steve
White’s Pond in Concord has great fly fishing. I generally fish it Dave LaCourse Thanks for the tip. I have fished Whites a couple of times, but with non-fly tackle, and have, in fact, caught rainbows and a brown. I have heard that fishing the deep dropoffs with a fly in summer works, but have not actually tried it. Both Hopkinton Res and Ashland Res are stocked as well, and I’ve been dying to try them. Steve
Someone told me that Hopkington res. has lanlocked salmon. Is this true? Gary
my opinion steve would be to fish these ponds when ever the sun is at its lowest point either in morning till 10 or in the eve till dark.for those ponds that contain brwns fish the shallows with any type of black stramer you have the black against a nite sky works well with them i could go into great detail but i just started typing and its driving crazy i think ill go to the pnd and relax byefor now
Not true. The state dumps in some of the spawned out Atlantic salmon brood stock from the Connecticuit/Merrimack salmon restoration program though. Both the Wachusett and Quabbin have landlock populations and there is a good run on Wachusett tribs in the fall but it gets hammered by every sort of "fisherman" one could imagine and a few that can’t be believed. Even so, I always give it a try and have even landed two! Doug
Someone told me that Hopkington res. has lanlocked salmon. Is this true? Gary
Some of the deeper res. are occasionally stocked with broodstock salmon (i.e. old salmon that are producing good eggs for the stocking program anymore.) I believe Hopkinton and Ashland are, and I know Middle Cochituate is. You can call 1-800-ask-fish and follow the voice menu to find out exactly which lakes were stocked this spring with broodstock salmon. Steve
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Trout Fly Fishing » Just wondering….
says… Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.
I figure that’s mostly Powseland’s doing. I’ve been around this board for a while and he never came out and said he supported anything PeTA advocates that I remember. Jim probably sees a PeTA member behind every rock. Like you, I found his general slant to be contrary to their agenda. Go figure. Things are a little dull with Tim absent. </c
I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Do you have a problem with it? This all started with a c&r vs. c&k bs debate. Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. If you choose to release, good for you. If Tim kills, good for him as long as it is done legally. He claims to fish legally. I choose to do both this year. Last year I caught and released well over 1,000 trout and intentionally killed 0. I’m sure some later died from their "experience" with my fly. If you subscribe to the 15% mortality figure that is bandied about, than over 150 fish died for the sake of my selfish pleasure. This year I plan on enjoying some on my table and to slow down on the quantity c&r game. I know this decision will actually let more trout live….go figure…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself. I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter. I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best. It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing. Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person? :-) I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people. :-O Later, – Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse. Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters. That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that. I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer
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Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? -Mark
Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?
You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your on nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry . — -dnc-
: : All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is : his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? Well, I’m not one of the ruffled one’s since I’m usually on his side, but I don’t really fish that often since moving from Colorado to the southern desert of New Mexico, so I can’t report on anything I did or learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this spring I *will* be heading into the Gila to catch up on catching trout. If all goes well my burro will be packing my gear ;-) JonCook.
<snip : learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and : donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or donkey, wouldn’t you? Do they feed on the surface? — http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index
Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? -Mark
I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away. An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter
says… All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Hmmm, I’m not sure T-Bone’s departure is temporary. After admitting that he is a PETA supporter, he pretty much blew his cover. And credibility.
Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.
: : I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or : donkey, wouldn’t you? Heck even an 8 is sufficient, but you have to go back to fiberglass, because the fast-action graphite stings too much when you whack ‘em. JonCook.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself.
I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter. I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best. It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing. Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person? :-) I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people. :-O Later, - Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse. Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters.
That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that. I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer
where I live trout season never closes - sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter
Moe asked me to ask you if there are any trout left?
says… I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand?
The part where he states he is a card carrying member for PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, or to clarify it further, PETA. You said he was a PETA member/supporter….you intentionally misled the group, hence THE BIG LIE….save your stories for the river where it is acceptable to stretch a tale.
Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.
no – I’ve just been very busy … 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make.
where I live trout season never closes - sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter
Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.
Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too. 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make. Peter
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter
yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.
Jon this really cracked me up! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that, I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers
After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter
I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away. An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter
Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that, I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers
Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. : : Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" Well, again, no mention of PETA… : What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? So now you change the question from your original one… : Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something : else entirely. If you’ve actually read the threads that have transpired, you’d know that Tim’s definition of "animal rights" is nowhere near what your definition is…so quit applying your narrow AR==PETA definition. It doesn’t fit. You all have twisted Tim’s words through the years, forcing him to make his own phrases, like "pure catch and release" — and then you assail him for it. Well, here’s the perfect example. Everyone except Jim knows that Tim did not mean the PETA agenda when he said "animal rights". : Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. : : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. You have no clue about what you write. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.
Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something else entirely. Do you have a problem with it? I have a problem with AR, not AW.
I USED to think there wasn’t any difference between Animal Rights and animal welfare. However, I’ve learned that when rights are given to animals, instead of animal welfare which protects them with laws requiring humane treatment, a whole nasty can of worms is opened up. It seems like a subtle difference but think of the consequences of assigning rights to animals. A few to start: no eating of animal flesh, no pets or domesticated animals, no leather, no milk, ice cream or cheese, no animal research, etc. Willi
I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away. An interesting trade-off, eh?
Peter: Good observation, at least because it agrees with mine! That is, I have also noticed the emergence of some new posters since the C&R/C&K threads have died away. In any event, you have to give Timbo credit for this – even his absence can provoke controversy, as well as the longest thread here in weeks. Mark Faulkner
I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away. An interesting trade-off, eh?
That kind of "debate" does keep people away. I checked out this newsgroup about three years ago and quickly decided it wasn’t what I wanted to read every day. I think it’s a lot friendlier now, not that Tim was ever unfriendly to me… on the contrary, actually; he e-mailed me answers to some of my questions and was quite encouraging. Ironically, it’s messages like this one I’m typing that I don’t want to see, so I’m done typing now! I want to read about Fly Fishing! Leave the debating to the after-fishing pub visits. Bob Scott
Dave Tatosian wrote "FiddleAway" wrote You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .
Sorry ta ruffle your feathers, ol’ fart! … 8-) — -dnc-
From the Deep South New Zealand
Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers? You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .
HEY! Leave us curmudgeons out of this. Walker couldn’t qualify as a curmudgeon on a bet! /dave (Charter Member of CU – "Curmudgeons Unlimited")
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » River Fly Fishing » GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVERS
Dams and pondliners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.
Right. And when (not if) those liners fail: 100 years, 500 years, even 2000 years if wer’e really lucky, the entire area becomes a superfund site. Note that the acid leaches lots of heavy metals, highly toxic, *other* than gold, which poison the ground and the water supply. – - – the cyanide is not the major problem! it’s the leached metals – - – which Jim won’t discuss I suppose Jim is gonna claim that the damn $1.83 per acre will pay for the impossible clean-up, like it has in Colarado? Jim, exactly how would you clean up those Colorado acid leach sites ??? – - – Funny thing these ‘white people’: They see a mountain, all they want to do is blow it into a pile of acid leaching crap (note the acid leached a lot of *really* poisonous heavy metals). For a few pounds of shiny yellow metal, which they’ve already got more of in Fort Knox than they can do anything productive or pretty with. Then these ‘white people’ take the money, declare the company bankrupt, and skip town… all the time whining about how we are interfering with ‘their west’. If this is an excuse to make them rich at taxpayer expense, lets just bring back welfare and GIVE them the damn money *not* to totally fuck up the place. Let ‘em sit at home and watch TV. I’ve seen enough hard rock mining shit to care a lot about this… I’m not sorry about the language.
Yeah sure cyanide disappers quickly. We have an old Phelps Dodge outside Pecos, right on the river. Between the mercury and the cyanide in that area you are not advised to eat the fish. I have fished that area and the coating on my fly poles have been eaten off. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.
Seadog – Still lost at Sea
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.
Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks, the word MOST is very misleading. Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see. And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations.
Yes, but this is the first ever "gold" mining venture, in which gold is the primary objective. Of course they have removed gold from copper operations, but they were not "gold" mining. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Yes, cyanide is highly toxic, but please explain the statement regarding MOST mines leaking cyanide into nearby streams. While it is true that there have been cyanide leaks, the word MOST is very misleading. Some specific numbers would be quite interesting to see. And cyanide does not persist for a long time. Shawn This statement is also true. Mines that have used the heap-leach method
use impoundment dams that collect the waste cyanide. The dams are lined with polyurethane liners that are as thick as a nickel. In addition, the ore piles are put on top of polyurethane sheets which are supposed to keep the cyanide out of groundwater. Every major Montana mine; and large mining companies are the primary users of cyanide-leaching has been cited for some type of water quality violation, most of which are related to cyanide leakage. The liners are often the reason for the leak; holes, tears, seam leakage. Rain storms have been a cause also, as they have filled up waste reservoirs and caused them to overflow. If cyanide gets into groundwater, it gets into streams. A large enough cyanide spill, or consistent leakage can persist for a long time in streams and rivers. Usually, by the time groundwater leakage of cyanide is detected by the EPA or the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), because mining companies are not likely to report, or even know about many of these leaks, they have already done their damage. Aquatic life is much more sensitive to cyanide in lesser amounts than non aquatic life. Shawn, keep in mind that the mining industry in Montana may be different from the industry in other states. Our water quality laws are much more lenient than many places, thus, it is important to pass I-122. Our past mining history shows that. If you have any questions about the record regarding cyanide leakage, just contact the Montana Environmental Information Center, who’s address is in my original letter. Or better yet, come to Montana sometime and see the destruction left in the place where a mountain was before, and fish the rivers that once had fish! Craig
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah sure cyanide disappers quickly. We have an old Phelps Dodge outside Pecos, right on the river. Between the mercury and the cyanide in that area you are not advised to eat the fish. I have fished that area and the coating on my fly poles have been eaten off. Seadog – Still lost at Sea
The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has
<snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time.
Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids. Jim
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has <snip has never mined gold in the United States. Wrong. Copper mining in leach pits is very similar to gold mining. Phelps Dodge removes huge quantities of gold from its copper operations. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Actually a mining engineer told me that cyanide is so reactive with carbon compounds, that it is totally absorbed very quickly in a river bed. Oh sure its toxic, but it doesn’t last long or travel far. I understand how you feel about this, but these mining operations are not as slip shod as you suggest. Phelps Dodge uses a closed recycling leach method where the leached metal ions are first removed by electrowining, then the water solution is pumped back onto the leach pile. Dams and pond liners prevent the escape of valuable fluids.
In 1991 the Summitville Mine in Colorado spilled cyanide and heavy metals into the Alamosa River, killing all aquatic life in a 19 mile stretch. This was after assurances were given when the mine opened that "state of the art" pollution controls were being used. There is a 120 mile section of the Clark Fork River in NW Montana that is a Superfund site because of mining pollution. Dams and ponds do nothing when you have torrential rains and flooding, causing the cyanide and heavy metal solution to overflow, which has happened at a number of mining sites.
BIG INDUSTRY GOLD MINE WILL RUIN MONTANA RIVER The Blackfoot River, which has flowed clean and cold in Montana from its headwaters near the continental divide for thousands of years is now being threatened by a huge open-pit cyanide heap-leach mine. The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp. and Canyon Resources Inc. – the Seven-Up Pete Joint Venture, wants to mine the river’s headwaters for gold. The mine site, including 172 million pounds of cyanide, which will be poured over 980 million tons of removed ore from the mountain will sit just 1/4 mile from the Blackfoot River. (The Blackfoot River, by the way was recently made famous by Norman Maclean in his novel "A River Runs Through It".) To get at the gold, buried 1,200 feet underground in trace amounts, the mining company will have to dismantle two pine-covered buttes, and for each ton of ore, the miners will recover 0.02 ounces of gold. The remaining pit, more than a mile across and deep enough to hide the Washington Monument will collect groundwater which will be contaminated with heavy metals, and will have to be pumped out at the rate of 15.8 million gallons a day. In Butte Montana, the Berkely Pit copper mine, which is no longer in operation has a similar sized hole. The pit is filling up with water, and officials have no way to get rid of the Carcinogen’s, toxins or metals in it, which have already leaked into the water table of the town of Butte. The mines copper smelter, the Anaconda Smelter has dumped tons of waste sediment into the Clark Fork River which has already caused several fish-kills, and water quality problems in my town, Missoula MT. The Blackfoot River feeds into the Clark Fork to the East, before it flows into Missoula, which means that a spill or leak of cyanide or heavy metals into the Blackfoot, would also terminally harm the Clark Fork. Both rivers are currently used regularly for rafting, kayaking, fly fishing and other recreations. The Phelps Dodge Mining Corp.- America’s largest copper producer- has had accidents at virtually all its mines. It has been cited and fined frequently for toxic discharges into nearby waters. The company has never mined gold in the United States. Cyanide is a highly toxic substance- even in minute amounts. Mining companies spray cyanide over huge heaps of low grade ore to extract gold. Most mines that use this heap- leach method have leaked cyanide into nearby streams and aquifers where it can persist for a long time. Even in dilute solutions, cyanide kills fish and other life forms. A leak of this chemical poison into the Blackfoot could finish the river for decades. In November, the people of Montana will be voting for or against Initiative 122, "The Clean Water Initiative". This initiative demands higher standards for removal of carcinogens and toxins before being discharged into state waters. The current law, one of the most lax water quality laws in the country, allows mine discharges to be diluted after release into state waters, where it is measured down stream after a "mixing zone". The "mixing zone" technique uses the river to dilute waste rather than using expensive machinery to filter it out. The current "easy to mine cheaply" water law is one of the reasons so many mining corporations seek Montana sites over mine sites in other states. The Phelps Dodge Mining Co. has spent over 1 million dollars on TV and radio adds in recent months, which Missoula and other communities across the state have been bombarded with. The adds claim that state water laws are sufficient, which they clearly are not, and that stricter laws for removing higher levels of poisons before discharge from mines will put many mines out of business and hurt the states economy. The so-called "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws" advertisements that the mining industry has created have been cited as being "illegal" by the fair-election watchdog group, "Common Cause". "Using a misleading name, "Montanans for Common Sense Water Laws," to run a million-dollar media blitz, the Industry is succeeding in changing citizen beliefs, and they’re breaking the law to do it." (Hal Harper, Democratic state representative from Helena, MT.) Unfortunately, many people in the state have been scared by these ads, and swayed into believing that I-122 will hurt the economy and that it unfairly targets the mining industry. The fact is that mining state-wide, accounts for less than one percent of the workforce, and mining has a long history of causing post mining recessions that hurt the economy. On top of the adds, the mining industry has donated computers to the local high school, X-ray machines to the local clinic and it helped to insulate the local senior citizens facility in an attempt to win support for the upcoming vote against the Clean Water Initiative. Proponents of I-122 believe that if a mine can not find a way to clean up their mess before they release water into the river, they should not be mining in the first place. Supporters of I-122 have raised only around 300 thousand dollars toward the fight to make higher water quality standards law, so we need as much support as possible. The Clark Fork-Pend Oreille Coalition recommends writing or contacting the following people to voice your opinion or concerns: Write to Montana governor Marc Racicot, who currently favors mining and opposes I-122. Gov. Marc Racicot Capitol Station Helena, MT 59620 (406)444-3111 The Phelps Dodge Mine Co. has applied to the Montana Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) for a permit to build this mine. Write Sandi Olsen at the DEQ. Ask her to put you on the mailing list for public scoping on the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) that the DEQ will prepare once it deems Phelps Dodge’s application complete. The findings are what determine whether the state approves or denies this permit. Sandi Olsen Montana DEQ P.O. Box 200901 Helena, MT 59620 (406)444-4988 Write a letter to your local newspaper. Explain that the Blackfoot is too precious to trade for the short-term and questionable benefits from mining. Remember; this is not just a Montana problem. We all need to speak out against giant corporations that value their own interests of profit and gain over people and environment! For more information and updates on this issue, please contact the following: Clark Fork- pend Oreille Coalition P.O. Box 7593 Missoula, MT 59807 (406)542-0539 Montana Council of Trout Unlimited P.O Box 7186 Missoula, MT 59807 (406)543-0054 Montana Environmental Information Center P.O. Box 1184 Helena, MT 59624 (406)443-2520 I am a University of Montana student and am not affiliated with any of the above organizations. I am just attempting to help get the word out that what may happen if I-122 loses, is the destruction of a river and an eco-system that can not be replaced for decades. Much of the above information came from articles from the San Francisco Examiner, The Missoulian, the Great Falls Tribune, the Clark Fork-pend Oreille Coalition and my own research and discussions with other sources. Craig Murphy
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Flyfishing » FF Mailing List?
Could someone point me towards a Flyfishing Mailing List? I nosed around this group looking for directions to a FAQ, thinking that would mention it, but haven’t managed to locate it either. Thanks in advance! Jack Gilbert
use no subject "subscribe Flyfish" (your real name, no quotes) that’s all there is to it. Enjoy!! Frank Church
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » airlines/full-sized rods?
writes: writes: … I have also made large rod tubes for my one piece rods. … How long is the longest tube that you’ve taken on an airplane ? I am asking because I have received conflicting info from agents. I have taken a 9 ft two piece rod on numerous trips and put the rod
case in the overhead. Most of the airlines have overheads with two doors, however there is no divider between the two sections. A 9 ft rod just makes it provided there isn’t a lot of luggage in there already. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I apolgize for the repetition here, but this is an important topic for those who are not regular travelers with flyrods. There is nothing that will spoil a trip like lost or broken rods — insurance just won’t help. Never check rods!!! First, I have only had one occasion where an agent tried to get me to check the rods, and I insisted on carrying them on board. If you run into that problem, don’t give in. Raise hell and they will let you on. Second, I have always been able to get the rods (up to 9′ two piece) in the overhead bins, except on the smallest of commuters; then they went in the hanging bag compartment. Lyman Hughes Ennis,MT Dallas, TX
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is a good question. I am travelling by plane for the first time with my fly rod, which a two piece 8 1/2 footer. I have one of the 1 1/2" aluminum rod cases with the sock inside, which doesn’t lock. Can I claim it as carryon? SHould I just tape up the cover? Or should I paste a label over the brand name on the case and label it Blueprints? Any advice would be appreciated. Chris Bernard (508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home
Do not check your rods. Continental lost my rod case for a day, even when I checked it in as oversized. Apparently, some baggage systems lose long items because they fall off the system at the turns. Fight like hell to take it on as luggage. I start kissing the butts of the check in people and then plead with the flight attendants and it always works. I use alum. rod tubes inside a nice looking Bean Maine Guide rod bag that actually looks like luggage. Wear some god awful fishing hat with a TU catch and release pin and they’ll treat you as an eccentric and let you do what you want. Musconet
Everything we do up here is by air. Have a rod cases called the "Bazooka" model. Hold 5 rods is bright red, easy to see and monitor, and is indestructable. Have take it all over the world and have not had a problem. — Gene Dobrzynski, Eagle River, Alaska
writes: writes: … I have also made large rod tubes for my one piece rods. … How long is the longest tube that you’ve taken on an airplane ? I am asking because I have received conflicting info from agents.
I have made tubes to carry one piece casting rods. Longest rod is 7′6", and the rod tube is a couple of inches longer. It’s in the attic at the moment, but, if I remember correctly, it is a 4" ID tube. (ABS – sched 40). I I checked that with no problem ….. The longest I have carried on board is 54". I put it in the hanger bag closets. Dee Crabtree DeeCrab*ibm.net
(508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home Do not check your rods. Musconet
Many of you have said the same as the note ref’d above. Maybe I’m just lucky, or don’t travel as much as you, (hmmm – nah!) but I have never had a rod tubes damaged, opened, lost or delayed – can’t say the same for my luggage (clothes) though!! I mark the tubes well, the ends are secure (bottom cap glued & top cap drilled & tied with a large nylon bundling tie) and the rods padded inside. Dee Crabtree DeeCrab*ibm.net
I’ve flown twice with my rods. United insisted that I check them, but then required that I sign a waiver of responsibility for loss or damage. Horizon Airlines insisted that I carry them onboard. Thanks Horizon.
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is a good question. I am travelling by plane for the first time with my fly rod, which a two piece 8 1/2 footer. I have one of the 1 1/2" aluminum rod cases with the sock inside, which doesn’t lock. Can I claim it as carryon? SHould I just tape up the cover? Or should I paste a label over the brand name on the case and label it Blueprints? Any advice would be appreciated. Chris Bernard (508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home
I’ve been flying with rods <g for a few years. Normally I carry them on, unless I have too much stuff. I have checked them on several occaisions, both in an aluminum tube and 3 tubes in a bag. Never had a problem. Perhaps I’m justlucky (on planes more than streams)! I’ve never been convinced a lock does much (for rods or bags), if someone wants it it’s gone. So I just make sure my insurance covers the important things. BTW I do carry older cane rods as well. David
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is a good question. I am travelling by plane for the first time with my fly rod, which a two piece 8 1/2 footer. I have one of the 1 1/2" aluminum rod cases with the sock inside, which doesn’t lock. Can I claim it as carryon? SHould I just tape up the cover? Or should I paste a label over the brand name on the case and label it Blueprints? Any advice would be appreciated. Chris Bernard (508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home
I’ve always carried my rod tube (and all my fishing gear for that matter! if my luggage gets lost…I can still fish!!) onto the plane. If it’s too long for the overhead…the attendant will put it in the standup closet.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This is a good question. I am travelling by plane for the first time with my fly rod, which a two piece 8 1/2 footer. I have one of the 1 1/2" aluminum rod cases with the sock inside, which doesn’t lock. Can I claim it as carryon? SHould I just tape up the cover? Or should I paste a label over the brand name on the case and label it Blueprints? Any advice would be appreciated. Chris Bernard (508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home
If you can carry it on, great, but if not I would advise buying one of those travel bags that hold rod tubes rather than checking just the tube. Why ? Because tubes do get lost; I spent an hour in a Mexican airport once looking for mine and trying to describe it (in my limited Spanish) to the people who worked there. Turns out it fell off a conveyor type rack and was sitting on the floor underneath it. The travel bag looks more like a suitcase, is less likely to roll around and will probably be treated with more care (of course using the word ‘care’ in any description of baggage handling is risky…) If it does get lost it’s easier to describe and find than a piece of aluminum pipe or PVC. jc
Does someone have a recommendation about how to pack regular, two piece rods for airline travel?
Never, I repeat NEVER check your rods, unless you want new ones and want to claim them on your insurance. They will eventually be broken or disappear if you check them. When carrying rods on, try to board early before the flight attendants are swamped by people with 400 pound duffle bags looking for a place to stow them. Be vnice to the flight attendants and they will generally find you a place to stow your rods. In most cases they will fit in the overhead bin. / / John Woodling / Sacramento, CA < <
If I understand correctly, the question is can you carry 2-piece rods as carry-on or must you check them. I have traveled a few times with my 7′11 2-piece in the 1.5" tube and my 9′ 2-piece in a larger tube. Although they are larger than what the regulations allow, I have never had anybody stop me. In fact the flight attendants were helpful in stowing them. I don’t know what I would do if they decided to be a hard ass about it. There’s no way I would check through a $300+ rod! Tight Lines, Gerry
I took two two piece fly rods and a two piece long musky weight bait casting rod from NJ to Miami to Quito to rainforest, overhead bin until I hit the Ecuadorian prop plane to the river port and the flight attendant there didn’t care where I stowed the rods. No guarantees but no one twitched about the tubes.
Bob – Never, never, never check your rods. That’s my advice. The overheads will handle a standard size rod case. On the one or two occasions that I have had a problem on an odd plane, I have always found a spot — usually in the hanging bag bin. Lyman Dallas, TX Ennis, MT
Does someone have a recommendation about how to pack regular, two piece rods for airline travel? I have a large rod tube which can hold several rods of various sizes, but has no locking mechanism. Should I just securely seal the thing with tape (over the regular latch) and insure the daylights out of it? Any other suggestions? thx…. Bob Bob Sturtz "We have met the enemy – Traverse City, MI and he is us." – Pogo
Bob, I have carried rods across the country in home made and in commercial rod carriers. I insert my aluminum fly-rod tubes into 1-1/2 in ABS tube which works just great to protect tube and contents. (no damage since I start doing that!) On my casting and spinning rods, I have carried them in a commercial rod case with a latch (which can have a pad lock attached.) I just secure the latch with a nylon tie. I have also made large rod tubes for my one piece rods. I attached a drawer handle, capped one end and put a screw cap on the other end. I insert foam inside both caps to protect the rods and also insert the rods into homemade sleeves. For the price of the commercial tube, I could build lots of custom tubes! Dee Crabtree DeeCrab*ibm.net
This is a good question. I am travelling by plane for the first time with my fly rod, which a two piece 8 1/2 footer. I have one of the 1 1/2" aluminum rod cases with the sock inside, which doesn’t lock. Can I claim it as carryon? SHould I just tape up the cover? Or should I paste a label over the brand name on the case and label it Blueprints? Any advice would be appreciated. Chris Bernard (508)640-2016 days (617)979-0464 home
Does someone have a recommendation about how to pack regular, two piece rods for airline travel? I have a large rod tube which can hold several rods of various sizes, but has no locking mechanism. Should I just securely seal the thing with tape (over the regular latch) and insure the daylights out of it? Any other suggestions? thx…. Bob Bob Sturtz "We have met the enemy – Traverse City, MI and he is us." – Pogo
Fly Fishing Fisherman Wiki » Fly Fishing » just hit 'N'
(paraphrased with ADD in mind) is that we’re all given a car to drive, some of us are given a Mercedes, some are given a Yugo. God knows what kind of car we’re driving and is going to cut us ADDers some slack!
I’m driving a "Lada". Lada is not accepted by the US car-registration. That is the problem, not that Lada would be a dangerous car or that it wouldn’t work. The point in my illustration is that God accepts and understands, but people don’t. We can manage well, but we are always causing problems in the traffic. People with fast cars shout to us. We can/dare use our car only in small roads, in highways we would be killed. Your car never brings you success and it always breaks to the roadside. just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal. When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure. Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured.
The Bible doesn’t differ from a normal book in the matter that if you get in, you can read it for hours. I recommend reading the Bible through from Genesis to Revelation. Use a translation that is the most convenient for you, using modern and simple language. My fellow ADDers, I don’t wish this forum to turn into alt.religion.nausea either, but it sounds like for Jack and for surely for me, our faith helps us live with ADD, and we here have all seemed to respect those things we have all posted that "work for me." If you haven’t explored your own spirituality, I encourage you to do so, in whatever way feels right for you. Sometimes its the only thing that brings me any calm.
I have strong religious ideas that I don’t share in this forum (the other newsgroups are for that). If someone wants to discuss with me about religion in general, you can do that by email. Religion has helped me very much. I got rid of demons. For those, who refuse to believe in demons I could say that they were utterly terrible nightmares with the difference that in normal nightmares you don’t wake up having wounds all over your body. I think this psychological stress made my ADD and MBD worse. — Andreas – Siperian Sirri Siberian Stint Disclaimer: My ideas don’t represent Joensuu University, the pope, MIT, Kiihtelysvaara Cat-raisers club, KGB, Aeroflot, United Arab Emirates or
| | Who is it that has such control of the life I call my own? | Is there a plan? Who has it? Does anyone? | By what authority must I do this but not this? | And if not able to willfully do such, does He take that which compels me to | disobey – and with it a whole lot more than that? Or does he not, and thus | I am at a loss to explain that world in which I exist? | | Prepare ye the way of the world. For that which is – is, and we need not | labor over why, just what and how. | Follow My word and ye shall be rewarded! | "Allejuiah!" | But hath I the patience, the strength to endure until then? | | I am a servant, albeit a lousy one | But must I be a slave as well? | Are ANY earthly pleasures mine to be had? | Or is there meaning only in eternity? | If so, when, WHEN will tomorrow come? | Is that also His and only His to know? | | Why must it be that whatever goes up must come down? | This is just the way it is – but says who? | We see that if one drops a tennis ball, it rises again | only after it has hit the bottom. | But, where is "rock bottom"? | And, am I not a tennis ball? Perhaps I am an egg instead. | | Is there only one way to find out? | I am too afraid to find out but have no choice! | Lest I take away by force that which was given to me. | But is all that is given His perogative to give then taketh away? | Is it ONLY HIS perogative? | Have I any hope of reaching eternal bliss by my own hand? | | Is there any earthly relief? | Am I even worthy of such? | Am I a such trash for asking? | Do my own actions explain my suffering? | Am I the one in control of my world? | Or is it my purpose to surrender control to Him? | | But I am a coward. | I can face neither life nor death. | Yet I know not which is worse. | I hath the guts to endure neither | And so I face nothing | and walk aimlessly along in despair. | | -s. troubled | | OY! Chill out man Its a great life if you don’t weaken Have a nice day My best friend is having a baby Today is a Solar Eclipse I have friends I was just listed in Whos who My daughter told me a joke that was funny and didn’t have ANY scatological references Baltimore Orioles are nesting in my yard It’s spring Ronald Regan isn’t President anymore Beer tastes good Flying Fly fishing Hope A good joke Just finished a semester Reading a good Roger Zelazney (Add your favorite things here)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The other thing that folks with ADD need to know is that God will accept you as you are. I’m not trying to do an electronic altar call here, but I think it’s important to mention this because so many people (even, unfortunately, some in churches) do NOT accept ADD people as they are. It says in the Bible that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. People with ADD who try to get active with a Christian group may have the unfortunate experience of coming across someone who thinks they are God’s agent of correction for the wayfaring… the kind who don’t have an ounce of Christian love in them, but who are quite ready and willing to tell you that you need to do certain things and that laziness is sin and so on. In almost every case you will find as you come to know these people that they are the biggest hypocrites in the church, but unfortunately, many people don’t stick around long enough to find that out… they think "these people hate me!" and vow never to darken the door of that church again! The
Thanks for saying this, Jack. C.S. Lewis talks about natural "temperaments" and the like in Mere Christianity and one of his thoughts (paraphrased with ADD in mind) is that we’re all given a car to drive, some of us are given a Mercedes, some are given a Yugo. God knows what kind of car we’re driving and is going to cut us ADDers some slack! Another thing that ADD people need to beware of are the people who will load you down with all sorts of regulations that you can’t possibly follow. Often this will come across as something like "If you are REALLY SERIOUS about being a Christian, you will do thus and such!"
Indeed. The criminal who was crucified with Christ did not have time to "do" anything. He just asked Jesus to "remember me." and Jesus told him that today he would be with him in paradise. Just believe. That’s it. encouraged, but I think many ADD people will find it much easier to just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal. When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure. Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured.
Here here. I’m telling you this from personal experience. Unfortunately, early on in my Christian life I got around too many people who delighted in telling other Christians exactly how to live, down to minute detail… and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that this hurt my Christian walk rather than helping it! I hold no malice toward those folks; neither they nor I knew that I had ADD, and I think it would have made a difference in how they would have approached me had they known. And in any case, most of them learned the error of acting in this way, but unfortunately not until they had hurt some people. I just hope those who were hurt didn’t give up on God. I’m glad that I didn’t.
My fellow ADDers, I don’t wish this forum to turn into alt.religion.nausea either, but it sounds like for Jack and for surely for me, our faith helps us live with ADD, and we here have all seemed to respect those things we have all posted that "work for me." If you haven’t explored your own spirituality, I encourage you to do so, in whatever way feels right for you. Sometimes its the only thing that brings me any calm. God bless you all! Nancy
As a fellow agnostic who has always wanted to find God… I wish you luck. Gee, if I ever thought I was feeling depressed….;( Feel better stan. –Rachel It will get better…summer is coming – my brother, Josh
Please note that this is not an off-the-wall, irrelevent post in an inappropriate newsgroup… there have actually been three or four messages recently in alt.support.attn-deficit that in a roundabout way dealt with this topic, though they did not have this subject heading. If you you are the sort who likes to flame people for talking about God, just hit the "n" key now and spare yourself the effort, because I promine to ignore your nastygram. Having said that, I will point out that what follows should be taken as my opinion. I’m not a preacher, just a struggling and OFTEN imperfect Christian. I’m not trying to hold myself up as a role model for anyone. I believe that churches are (or at least should be) hospitals for sinners, not museums for saints. If you are truly trying to find God, it would seem that the logical place to look would be the Bible. But there are a couple of pitfalls here, particularly for those with ADD. In particular, the first time you read the Bible you should NOT start at the beginning. What will happen is that as you start to read Genesis, you will first come across some things that are hard to understand without having some background, and then you will come across the seemingly endless genealogies that will put you to sleep. Better to start in the New Testament. The best place to start for most people is the book of John, but if you really crave excitement you might want to start with the book of Acts. Not only is the New Testament more relevent to us today, it’s also more current. If you MUST start in the Old Testament, try starting at something like I or II Kings, or I or II Samuel. For the most part, you won’t be bored in those books, but you may find some things that are hard to understand at first. And at risk of offending the few diehards who insist that the King James version was good enough for the disciples so it ought to be good enough for you , let me point out that unless you LOVE reading 400 year olde English, you’ll probably find a modern translation much easier to understand… BUT, be careful you don’t get one put out by a particular sect that changes certain verses to promote their theology. I recommend the New International Version (published by Zondervan), if only because the translators came from a wide variety of demoninational backgrounds that for the most part kept denominational bias out. There are other good modern translations out as well. I don’t want to argue this point if anyone disagrees, but personally I would steer clear of anyone who insists that there is only ONE version of the Bible you should read (they are probably either in a cult, or at very least they don’t trust that God is able to reveal his truth to you through any version other than the one THEY like!). And if you just can’t get into the thought of reading the Bible right now, but would consider reading a more modern and interesting book, may I suggest you visit your library or a bookstore and ask for a copy of "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. This book has been around for close to fifty years now (I think it was written in the ’40’s) but it is as relevent today as ever. If you’ve been told you have to have "blind faith" and turn off your intellect to understand God (NOT true!) and you can’t accept that, then this is the book for you. It was one of those books that I was able to easily "hyperfocus" on; I couldn’t put it down! The other thing that folks with ADD need to know is that God will accept you as you are. I’m not trying to do an electronic altar call here, but I think it’s important to mention this because so many people (even, unfortunately, some in churches) do NOT accept ADD people as they are. It says in the Bible that man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. People with ADD who try to get active with a Christian group may have the unfortunate experience of coming across someone who thinks they are God’s agent of correction for the wayfaring… the kind who don’t have an ounce of Christian love in them, but who are quite ready and willing to tell you that you need to do certain things and that laziness is sin and so on. In almost every case you will find as you come to know these people that they are the biggest hypocrites in the church, but unfortunately, many people don’t stick around long enough to find that out… they think "these people hate me!" and vow never to darken the door of that church again! The problem is, that was NOT God speaking to you, that was just someone else who is in worse shape than you are (even if they have some position in the church). Here’s how to test these people, and at the same time avoid making the same mistake yourself: Read Romans chapter 14. The entire chapter. Not just once, but as often as it takes for it to really sink in. Then measure those people against that chapter. If they are violating the letter and spirit of the Bible with every word of condemnation they utter, don’t let them ruin YOUR relationship with God! Another thing that ADD people need to beware of are the people who will load you down with all sorts of regulations that you can’t possibly follow. Often this will come across as something like "If you are REALLY SERIOUS about being a Christian, you will do thus and such!" Unless they can show you where this is COMMANDED in the Bible (and not just in one obscure verse, and make sure it’s an actual COMMAND, not an example of something that someone did voluntarily), don’t listen to it, especially if it sounds like an impossible command for you! For example, some people will tell you that you MUST read the Bible x number of minutes per day, or that you must read a certain number of verses or chapters a day. The problem is that while this may be what God wants that person to do (and indeed, their life may have been turned around by following that advice), chances are that God did NOT tell them to go out and preach that as a COMMAND to everyone – they just figure that since it worked so well for them, it must work for everyone! And since everyone is different, what God wants that one person to do may not be what he wants YOU to do. Make no mistake, prayer is good and Bible reading is good and both are things to be encouraged, but I think many ADD people will find it much easier to just open their Bible and read until their mind starts wandering, or until they get sleepy, then to try and set a fixed time goal or quantity goal. When you do that, you may be setting yourself up for failure. Look upon prayer and Bible reading as something to be enjoyed, not a chore to be endured. I’m telling you this from personal experience. Unfortunately, early on in my Christian life I got around too many people who delighted in telling other Christians exactly how to live, down to minute detail… and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that this hurt my Christian walk rather than helping it! I hold no malice toward those folks; neither they nor I knew that I had ADD, and I think it would have made a difference in how they would have approached me had they known. And in any case, most of them learned the error of acting in this way, but unfortunately not until they had hurt some people. I just hope those who were hurt didn’t give up on God. I’m glad that I didn’t. The last thing I would say is that when you are ready to start attending church, don’t be afraid to try several until you find the one that you feel the presence of God in (but please, don’t confuse man-made enthusiasm with the presence of God, they are two quite different things!). If you pray and ask God to show you to the right church, He will… BUT it may not necessarily be the first church you walk into. You may have to try several. ADD people have to be careful of three types of churches: First, the type where the services are so predictable and boring that you find yourself counting the ceiling tiles. Second, the ones that are so legalistic and narrow that you will be condemned as being lazy, crazy, or stupid (a.k.a. "foolish") before they even know you. You need spiritual help; that’s why you’re there, and if all they can offer is condemnation, they’re blinder than you are (in a spiritual sense) and will be of no help to you whatsoever! Third, the cults. The problem here is that the cults often tend to know exactly what’s wrong with the other churches, and therefore they will go out of their way to be both exciting and interesting, BUT they twist the scriptures to suit their own purposes (which are often to make money for the people highest in the cult hierarchy). In addition, following their teachings will NOT secure eternal life for you (at least not in any place you’d want to spend eternity). I’m getting dangerously close to preaching here, which I said I wouldn’t do, but I do think it’s important to KNOW where you will spend eternity after you die… and that’s all I’ll say about that here. There is a passage in the Bible, in the book of Matthew (chapter 11, verses 28-30) that I think is especially appropriate for those with ADD that are seeking God. Jesus is speaking, and he says, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Jack Jack Decker | "What were once options are now mandates!" Please note: Some days I get lots of e-mail. On such days, I read it all, but don’t personally respond to all of it due to lack of time.
Who is it that has such control of the life I call my own? Is there a plan? Who has it? Does anyone? By what authority must I do this but not this? And if not able to willfully do such, does He take that which compels me to disobey – and with it a whole lot more than that? Or does he not, and thus I am at a loss to explain that world in which I exist? Prepare ye the way of the world. For that which is – is, and we need not labor over why, just what and how. Follow My word and ye shall be rewarded! "Allejuiah!" But hath I the patience, the strength to endure until then? I am a servant, albeit a lousy one But must I be a slave as well? Are ANY earthly pleasures mine to be had? Or is there meaning only in eternity? If so, when, WHEN will tomorrow come? Is that also His and only His to know? Why must it be that whatever goes up must come down? This is just the way it is – but says who? We see that if one drops a tennis ball, it rises again only after it has hit the bottom. But, where is "rock bottom"? And, am I not a tennis ball? Perhaps I am an egg instead. Is there only one way to find out? I am too afraid to find out but have no choice! Lest I take away by force that which was given to me. But is all that is given His perogative to give then taketh away? Is it ONLY HIS perogative? Have I any hope of reaching eternal bliss by my own hand? Is there any earthly relief? Am I even worthy of such? Am I a such trash for asking? Do my own actions explain my suffering? Am I the one in control of my world? Or is it my purpose to surrender control to Him? But I am a coward. I can face neither life nor death. Yet I know not which is worse. I hath the guts to endure neither And so I face nothing and walk aimlessly along in despair. -s. troubled