Question:

Whom’s Never read or heard that one before!

That’s the sound of things going right by him. — Charlie…

Response:

On the way home from some errands, I stopped in at a local pawn shop. I like pawn shops and have purchased quite a few things from them in the past. They strangely, had a very large assortment of boxes of fly tying hooks in various sizes, styles and manufacturers in a large bag. After some haggling, I purchased them. There were about forty boxes of hooks. Some boxes had a couple hundred hooks and some as few as twenty or so. Lots of hooks. It was a collection made over time with a wide range of manufacturers: TMC, Dai Rikki, DaiChi, Mustad, Partridge, Tiemco, and a couple others. I decided to try and consolidate these hooks with the hooks I already had on hand so I wouldn’t have some many boxes of hooks. I thought it would be easy, for example a size 12 standard dry will be the same, or at least very close, for all manufacturers. Not even close. Even comparing hooks that were the same in terms of size, wire weight, shaft length, bend style etc., the differences were striking. The thing that was most enlightening to me was the difference between the sizes among the different manufacturers. I always thought that hook size was standardized and was based on the hook gap. This doesn’t seem to be so. For example, there was a size 22 hook from one manufacturer that had the same hook gape as an 18 from a different manufacturer, even though the styles were identical. Length of shaft and wire weight also varied widely among the manufacturers even with the same description. This is something I should have noticed in my years of tying but until I directly compared various manufacturers’ hooks to each other, I didn’t notice it. It seems that the differences between the manufacturers’ hooks was most pronounced in the smaller sized hooks. I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials. I did get a few other things in the bag with the hooks. Most of it was junk but I did get several carded and snelled Pott’s Hand Woven Hair Flies. Since there was a discussion on them recently I scanned them and posted them to ABPF. Willi

Response:

[snipped] I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials.

Apparently, the broker wouldn’t meet his price. Maybe he wasn’t quality material? /daytripper (Wondering what you’d tie up with a piece of "deadbeat"

Response:

[snipped] I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials. Apparently, the broker wouldn’t meet his price. Maybe he wasn’t quality material? /daytripper (Wondering what you’d tie up with a piece of "deadbeat"

A Ginkles Special…..(?) TC, R

Response:

[snipped] I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials. Apparently, the broker wouldn’t meet his price. Maybe he wasn’t quality material?

I was thinking he must be used to pretty tough pawn shops. <g — Charlie…

Response:

[snipped] I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials.

Odd, I heard they invariably ask for an arm and a leg. TL MC

Response:

  There were about forty boxes of hooks. Some boxes had a couple hundred hooks and some as few as twenty or so. Lots of hooks. It was a collection made over time with a wide range of manufacturers: TMC, Dai Rikki, DaiChi, Mustad, Partridge, Tiemco, and a couple others. I decided to try and consolidate these hooks with the hooks I already had on hand so I wouldn’t have some many boxes of hooks. I thought it would be easy, for example a size 12 standard dry will be the same, or at least very close, for all manufacturers. Not even close.

    I keep my hooks the drawer of an old dresser. For the most part, they are still in the original packaging, so there are several hundred packages and maybe fifteen different types of packages. The drawer is usually a mess and it’s quite difficult to find what I’m looking for, even though I periodically tidy everything up and arrange them according to size and style. (It seems like it only stays tidy for a week or so)This mess is to blame for a huge amount of duplication, in that I frequently buy hooks I thought I was out of, only to later find out I had a couple hundred left. Anyhow, last weekend I figured I’d get everything organized, so I went out and bout a bunch of Spirit River 21 compartment storage containers. I carried all of my hooks down to the dining room table and laboriously arranged them by type and size, with the intention of dumping different brands of the same size/type in the same compartment. I ran up against the same problem Willi described, and decided to just forget about it.     Willi- do you want to swap some hook containers for hooks? I can bring them by tomorrow.

Response:

I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials.

It was interesting the way you worded that – what part of the body did you want to haggle for ? Well, that is a sad situation you point out.  How are we supposed to figure out what someone means when they say the fish are taking size 22 BWOs?

Response:

I dunno Willi. Gaining from someone else’s misfortune would seem to me to be bad fishing mojo….and looking for more gain in the form of some destitute brother of the angle’s hocked hackles would be courting skunking, or worse. Your best bet would be to give them all away to a kid and replace them immediately at full price. Your pal, — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

I dunno Willi. Gaining from someone else’s misfortune would seem to me to be bad fishing mojo….and looking for more gain in the form of some destitute brother of the angle’s hocked hackles would be courting skunking, or worse. Your best bet would be to give them all away to a kid and replace them immediately at full price.

Just shi…er, pull that out of your ass, did ya…? HTH, R

Response:

 It seems that the differences between the manufacturers’ hooks was most pronounced in the smaller sized hooks.

I noticed this when looking to buy some 24’s for griffith gnats. The shop had Tiemco 24’s that were definitely bigger than Mustad 22’s. IIRC the hook gaps were the same, but the shaft on the Tiemco 24’s was longer (I could have the 2 manufacturers reversed, though). I thought it strange, but having worked in software standards I know the slippery slope of what a ’standard’ is Rob

Response:

[snipped] I was disappointed that the pawnshop didn’t have any of the person that pawned the hooks, tackle or fly tying materials. Apparently, the broker wouldn’t meet his price. Maybe he wasn’t quality material?

Oops. That didn’t come out too well. I’m not a dealer, or user, of used body parts. That’s the stuff of cyberpunk science fiction. Willi

Response:

 It seems that the differences between the manufacturers’ hooks was most pronounced in the smaller sized hooks. I noticed this when looking to buy some 24’s for griffith gnats. The shop had Tiemco 24’s that were definitely bigger than Mustad 22’s. IIRC the hook gaps were the same, but the shaft on the Tiemco 24’s was longer (I could have the 2 manufacturers reversed, though). I thought it strange, but having worked in software standards I know the slippery slope of what a ’standard’ is Rob

And WHO (?) or Whom’s Standard should it be you compare with Rob? — George Gehrke  

Question:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

    It is a problem that is difficult and not a single simple answer will do. Are the parents or the child to blame? In some cases the parents are to blame but, not in all, there are cases where the kids are plain rebellious and the parents are wonderful.      It is a sad state of affairs that the TV or video games are the surrogate parents. Many homes where there is two parents consist of both of them working long hours to provide extra. I also understand where some families choose to have a little less extras and have a parent around during the children’s years at home. I guess it breaks down to what is the most important.     Thanks I will step off the box and get back into the background.. D.S.

Response:

   I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair

I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

Why?  Because one kid broke a couple windows with an airplane? Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now…

We’re with you, Casey.  As a teenage pilot, you’re living the dream I had to wait another 20 years to achieve, and I tip my hat to you. This isn’t an age thing — it’s a mental health issue, and should be treated as such. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair to say my parents are great parents yet if I was to do something like this they would never know until its to late. My parents love me, care about me, and are great but I still, along with most teens, try to push them away. When they talk to me I dont want to talk to them, its none of their business, etc. Not only that but most parents have nothing in common with their kids. For instance my dad likes baseball cards, being outside, and fishing. My mom likes dolls, shopping, and being outside. I like computers and flying. I hate doing everything they do and they pretty much hate everything I do except my mom will fly occasionally. Sure I try to do what they like to do sometimes to make them happy, after all they are my parents and Im their last "baby" and soon ill be leaving home to. When I get home I eat and goto my room and come out when its time to leave, its the way kids do. I personally think the parents are still great parents for not knowing, it shows they trusted their kid. Unfortunatly this kid couldnt be trusted and I dont know the family history, only what ive heard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I feel it man, I feel it…Flying is all I have (well other than my semi-good looks ) -J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Ironic coincidence is that one of the recent issues of AOPA Pilot (the one with the 2001 Bonanza on the cover) shows a 16 year old CAP cadet shaking hands with her instructor after soloing both gliders and a 172 on her 16th birthday. David Reinhart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Why, because one goofball killed himself?  What about all the goofballs of all ages that kill themselves in cars everyday?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I agree… -J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

  -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons?

| Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

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Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because the adults aren’t at risk here. -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have happened. -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. -Some adults are mature, some are immature. -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we love. -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

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Question:

   In the first place Mike didn’t do anything any decent person would have done. I sent an E-mail to Dianna telling her my opinion of the article and received a reply which was negative and did not sound like her.  I did not know about the injury to her husband and the pressure she was under at the time.  As the Editor she did have a responsibility to place a disclaimer to state FAOL’s position on Old Ruff’s article, which she did not do.  This made it appear that they condoned this inflammatory article.  Then she removed the negative comments about it from FAOL which further indicated FAOL’s position was to agree with the article.  Deanna made some serious errors and her actions led to the current situation.    Mike’s reputation is even better with me because he has the courage of his convictions.  If I had to chose between Mike and FAOL, Mike would win every time. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a certain reputation to uphold here, and elsewhere.< Not any more. Oh, I think Mike still enjoys a pretty good reputation on ROFF.  Of course, my supposition hinges on the assumption that you don’t speak for all of us…….I could be wrong.

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ROFF is the one place, FAOL cannot censor opposing points of view. < And one YOU cannot censor.

And what have I censored? bc.

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HRBlain writes: I could be wrong.< You often are.

Careful, HR, or you’ll end up in Bmabia, which is right next to Bmalia.  In fact, they share the same fire and police dpts.  The young ladies in Bmabia, however, are small titted, unlike the lucious dolls of Bmalia.  Something about the water I suspect. Dave L.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike,   Ok, already! Perhaps it is only me, but I see no need to burden ROFF with ongoing matters on FAOL. For days on end, we get a bombardment of threads, the vast majority started by yourself, to discuss your beef with folks who don’t regularly contribute here. Wasn’t it you who had to depart us once before over needless bulk caused by other threads? You seem to be taken with the need to justify on this forum why you shouldn’t be blamed for the demise(if indeed such happens)of FAOL. It is perfectly rational that some blame you. Get over it. Get back to the insightful and well written stuff that has endeared you to many. I miss your angling writing, and hope not to offend with these observations.                         regards,                          Tom Littleton "Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas."

Tom: I am little more than a lurker here with very few posts to my credit. I have, however, read Mr. Connors and many others posts over the last 6 months. In this time I’ve found him to be free with his knowledge, a prolific contributor to the group, and above all, a reasonable and courteous gentleman. He now finds himself in a position of being slandered, quoted out of context, and generally maligned by persons who aren’t qualified to carry his creel. His integrity has been called in to question by persons with less than honourable methods. I think he has handled himself with more restraint than I could. If he feels that posting to a public forum is the best way to defend his name, I am willing to afford him some lattitude. IMHO, ROFF is a forum for educated (formal or otherwise) and sometimes opinionated, gentleman to gather for thought provoking discussion with fly fishing being the tie that binds (if not always the main topic <G). When I get tired of a thread I just move to the next subject header. Rick O. "Children are born with an innate sense of justice; it usually takes twelve years of public schooling and four more years of college to beat it out of them." "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

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Like I said in another post… "Crusty Factor" — Michael Era

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter.

You could also go up to Alaska, across and down through Russia, over to Japan and then on to the South Pacific.  It is a much longer journey, but no 2000 mile over water legs. (I wonder how far the jump to Palau would be, I’ve always wanted to go there…) Brian

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air.

My rounded off 2100 NM was only a paltry 11 NM off from your very accurate 2089!! well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine. cg

It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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I only show from OAK to PHNL to be 2089 nm that would only be about 10 hrs in the air. well within range 300 gal, 1800 lbs, but you would not be flying  more than 5 hours on one engine.   cg First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard

I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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What did you assume that I would try it without any  preflight planning?? cg It is quite obvious to me that you are an armchair pilot who has never done anything like this before. Your numbers are all wrong, and I hope for your sake that you never try it. You would most certainly get your feet wet. It took me 13 hours in a Baron 58 and 15 in a Twin Bonanza. Your turbos in that Aztec would most likely do very little if anything for you since westbound to HNL most frequently you need to stay at 10K or below lest you catch the prevailing westerlies which are very strong at altitude. So you would do well to get 150K over the water. Reinhard

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First off, I would have to see that to believe it. Secondly, to fly OAK-HNL in a Turbo Aztec (14 hrs plus 3 hrs reserve), you would carry a lot more weight in fuel than the load you described here. Reinhard I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  

Surely you jest, Doug. Kidding aside, the special flight permit that you get for the overload condition and he temporary fuel tank installation requires you calculate in a 3 hour reserve on transoceanic flights. Things can happen while on such a long flight; the forecast winds can turn out different, you might have equipment problems that cause you to burn more fuel for less airspeed than you had planned, etc. I have had several a couple of occasions when I was glad for the extra fuel. Remember, there is only one time when you can have too much fuel: when you are on fire. Reinhard

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It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!  

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

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I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

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OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane. Rgds JD   …… I’d rather be flying ….. John Duncan M.C.N.E.  PPL(A)  J.P.  AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147 J & J Network Services Pty Ltd P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566 Australia

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My tongue was firmly in cheek.  I don’t fly VFR without at least 1 hour reserve. — Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It doesn’t matter a great deal what the legal reserve is.  Winds over the Pacific on that flight are usually against you.  If you go high at all to minimize fuel consumption the head winds increase.  The Aztec is NOT a fast airplane for its fuel consumption.   To fly that leg without considerably MORE than a 45 minute reserve, is to seriously invite wet feet.  The 3  hour reserve is not bad.  The 14 hours is quite optimistic, in my opinion.  I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks!   John I thought for IFR you only needed 45 min reserve.  – Doug  -  Kingfisher plans are here…Now, about that Garage… …cruising between 150 to 200 miles per hour… Greater cruising speeds are possible, but the size of the earth does not warrent greater speeds. -Igor Sikorsky in 1934

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No idea about a KR2, but you might want to read Sport Aviation (past few issues) and look for the 2 part round the world story by the author and Burt Rutan, who flew their Long EZ’s around the world. Very informative (and nice pictures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, so its been done before in factory planes, how about homebuilts?  I am considering the KR2, which has an advertised range of 1600sm, can this be extended with additional tanks to the 2100nm required to fly to HNL? James Well Jon Johanson has done it both ways (make that crossed the Pacific … ) in an RV-4 during his round the world trips. Check out his Web site at http://www.mag-net.educ.monash.edu.au/saaa/head.html. He has also published his autobio called "Aiming High", Wakefield Press, South Australia, ISBN 1 86254 424 7. Highly recommended reading for anyone building their own plane.

James, You are considering a monumental task here ol chap, this sought of feat requires a hell of a lot of homework and I would suggest you’re really stretching it in a KR-2. With a large amount of retro-fitting you could possibly carry out this adventure, however the stakes are extremely high! I would also endorse the above, ie read Jon Johannson’s book and while your doing that bare a thought for the planning both technically and enroute that goes into these voyages. You may also wish to contact the "Mick & Dick" of "Round the World Friendship Tour":- Sport Aviation Feb edition Pg 76. For a start, unless you’ve got heaps of "Bucks" behind you, just go build your A/C and enjoy flying it around the "States". Whilst I’ll admit, I don’t have an intermit knowledge of the KR-2 and its weight & balance etc, it is only small by any standards. Its payload excess does not go down well with the number crunching required when you consider such additions as fuel, extra redundancy systems req’d, and ESPECIALLY CONSIDER ENGINE RELIABLITY etc, etc. To say the least, 18 plus hours is a long time to spend in the close confines of a KR-2 cockpit, surrounded by custom built ferry tanks around your ears. I have two buddies that were involved in Ferry Flights across the Pacific in their younger days. One of them did get his feet wet mid Pacific (1200 Nm from nowhere & at night) when the nut on the Alternator pulley worked its way loose. Lucky for him he had spotted a fishing boat a couple of hours before and was able to back track and relocate it. All be it, he was now down to torch and compass. That was in a brand new production A/C as well. Glenn now does his long transcontinental flights the same way I do, the only way:-In style at 43,000 ft. James, whilst your challenge is a commendable one, the golden rule is to keep your feet dry. Best way to do that is travel the South Pacific the same way most of us do, In a 747, 767 etc, and don’t forget you can have the added advantage of sipping champagne or other adult beverages!! If you’re considering going on from HNL to other South Pacific destinations, then you have a hole heap more challenges in front of you. Regards Ray (Just my 2 cents worth) J.

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I don’t know what you are flying but when flying my instructors Turbo Aztec, six full grown american people and topped off I can hold 15,000 on one engine, well, or as long as my leg holds out. cg It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. Reinhard

Response:

How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil.

The Aztec would burn considerably more than 8-10 GPH.  Probably closer to 25 GPH.  So we are talking about over 500 gallons.  The Aztec is a rather slow twin with a pair of 250 HP flat engines.  It is Pipers upscale Apache, just as the Beech Baron is the high power version of the Travelair. John

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What is the availability of av-gas in Russia. I hear that it’s non-existant. D.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I would use something like 18 hours for flight planning purposes in an Aztec.  Then I would add another three hours for reserve.  That looks like about 21 hours of fuel. I think you could get it in, but not without some pretty special ferry tanks! How do you get 21 hours of fuel into an Aztec?  I’m not familiar with the type, but at an avg fuel burn of 8-10 GPH – we’re talking about 168-210 gals. Where would you put it all?  Another question springs to mind – how do you add oil in flight? I’ve seen club aircraft burn as much as a 1/2 qt/hr. The sump would be bone dry after 21 hrs with no additional oil. If you stay below 10k feet, you will frequently find winds that are not too bad. You often find about 10 knots of help down low.. Under no circumstances would I start out with ANY headwind on that leg. Then you could make HNL in about 14-15 hrs in an Aztec. Taking a Baron to Fiji last year, I flew at 6K feet to HNL and did quite well. (13 hrs.) Fitting all that fuel into the plane is really not so difficult. There are professional tanking outfits that install ferry tanks in the cabin in a day. You are certainly correct when you adress the oil issue. It is absolutely essential that you know the oil consumption of your engines. And there is also a way to rig an oil replenishing setup to that you can add oil in flight. Reinhard

Reinhard is exactly right.  You notice in the original post that I did mention that it would take some fancy ferry tanks to get the fuel in! When my airplane flew across the Atlantic from Brazil to Cornwall, they added a special fancy ferry tank.  A 50 gallon drum on chocks where the back seat goes, with a wobble pump to pump fuel up into the wing tank. They recommended that you run the wing tank down to less than a quarter full before pumping fuel up to it.  They said watch the gauges so you do not overfill it and pump fuel overboard.   The also recommended the long distance power setting of 1800 RPM and 23 inches of manifold pressure.  That was supposed to get the fuel consumption down to 14.7 gallons per hour.  That gave a little over eight hours in the air.  At that power setting, you get 100 knots! Still wouldn’t make Honolulu! John

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

James, It is most certainly feasible and is done all the time. Wether done single engine or twin is really no consideration. In some respects, a single may be better than a twin because in a twin you need to carry much more fuel to feed two engines. That second engine does not give you any more chances to remain airborne, if one should fail, until such a time that you are back down to normal weights. During the early phases of the flight you would be so heavy with fuel that one engine could not possibly keep you in the air. The two longest legs are Oakland to Honolulu 2100 NM and from there you have another long leg, either HNL to Majuro, Marshall Islands, or HNL to Tarawa, Republic of Kiribati, the latter one being a good stop, but almost again as far as OAK-HNL. After that you can choose your legs more easily and they are considerably shorter. Reinhard

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-)

Like minds I guess, but I resisted.  Abacus.com has an add-on for MS Flight Simulator that follows her route.    It wasn’t/isn’t an easy flight. John J. Miller

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

Da Plane, Boss, Da Plane! (sorry, just couldn’t help myself) John Galban====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

I think someone tried this in a twin.  Her name was Amelia something….. Sorrry, it was too easy to pass on  :-) Jeff Oslick

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I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Check out http://www.calle.com/aviation/airports.cgi Allows you to specify departure, destination, range and speed, and displays a nice table and map of the results. Lots of material for dream flights… BTW you probably don’t want a totally deserted island; food, water, fuel, runway and women should be minimum requirements (the website allows you to specify 2 out of these 5 Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this fantasy of flying to one of them deserted SP islands (Robinson Crusoe Syndrome).  Has anyone tried this in a single engine airplane, is this feasible at all?  Which route would one take? Thanks, James

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Question:

Anybody been there this week or last?  What are conditions and what is happening? Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

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Anybody been there this week or last?  What are conditions and what is happening? Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                           Tom McGuane

Hi Michael, According to a friend who traveled through the area, the fishing in south east Idaho has been great.  Check with the Stonefly Angler in Boise at 208-338-1700.  They should be able to give you up to the minute info. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Yesterday, my buddy and I went out to a stretch of the Winnipeg River, east of Winnipeg, Manitoba. We head to our best spring pike spot. An expansive weed flat in a shallow, north bay. We chuck some spinnerbaits and buzzbaits. Lots of followers! HUGE followers! No bites except for a couple 12-inchers. Try some sluggos – nothing. Try some Rapala-type minnows – nothing.  ’Well, I guess they aren’t hungry’ my buddy says…..We’re packing up, and I spot an old spoon in the bottom of my tackle box. Now, I always thought spoons were kinda…, what…., old fashioned? Low-tech? What the heck, it’s worth a try. I toss it….BANG – 5 pounder. Nice. Try again. BANG – 8 pounder. NICE. My buddy loads up a weedless spoon – BANG – 6 pounder. We drifted across the flat for 2 hours, caught over 20 fish. One was my new personal best, 13 pounds, 37inches long…. caught on a ‘five of diamonds’ spoon. Now, compared to some of the fly-in spots, these aren’t big fish. But considering that these were caught 5 minutes from a public boat launch, we couldn’t have been happier. Lesson learned – pike like spoons. Thanks,guys,,,,just had to share my good fortune. Brian ps – all the fish were caught on Fusion – I love Fusion. SOLID hooksets, especially when your barbs are pinched.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday, my buddy and I went out to a stretch of the Winnipeg River, east of Winnipeg, Manitoba. We head to our best spring pike spot. An expansive weed flat in a shallow, north bay. We chuck some spinnerbaits and buzzbaits. Lots of followers! HUGE followers! No bites except for a couple 12-inchers. Try some sluggos – nothing. Try some Rapala-type minnows – nothing.  ’Well, I guess they aren’t hungry’ my buddy says…..We’re packing up, and I spot an old spoon in the bottom of my tackle box. Now, I always thought spoons were kinda…, what…., old fashioned? Low-tech? What the heck, it’s worth a try. I toss it….BANG – 5 pounder. Nice. Try again. BANG – 8 pounder. NICE. My buddy loads up a weedless spoon – BANG – 6 pounder. We drifted across the flat for 2 hours, caught over 20 fish. One was my new personal best, 13 pounds, 37inches long…. caught on a ‘five of diamonds’ spoon. Now, compared to some of the fly-in spots, these aren’t big fish. But considering that these were caught 5 minutes from a public boat launch, we couldn’t have been happier. Lesson learned – pike like spoons. Thanks,guys,,,,just had to share my good fortune. Brian ps – all the fish were caught on Fusion – I love Fusion. SOLID hooksets, especially when your barbs are pinched.

I live in Oregon, U.S.A. and fish at Flin-Flon, Manitoba every year and find that my best baits for northerns are spoons and #5 Mepps spinners. We catch numerous pike in the 20-25 pound class with them.  Not every cast, however.  It is still work. I have also found that fishing the Mepps vertically can be productive at times.  Just open the bail and let it drop 50-75 feet to the bottom.  Then give it a "reef" and start cranking.  You might be surprised.  On my first 4 "drops" I landed 3 lake trout.  Sometimes they hit.  Sometimes they don’t!  

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If you are on the north end of town, or maybe even if you are not, call the St. Vrain Angler in Longmont, 651-6061. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Hi Craig, There are several good shops in Denver including the Orvis shop in the downtown area close to the convestion center.  I’m not sure which street it’s on. Also consider contacting the Federation of Fly Fishers, they have an active club in your area called the High Plains Drifters.  You could learn more about them by calling the FFF Council President for that area. His name is Dan Turner, he’s a good guy, and he lives in Thornton.  His number is 1-303-457-4248. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Product Bozeman, MT (catalog avail)

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I’m looking for some recommendations on good fly fishing ships in Denver.

<SNIP If you’re on the South side of town there’s Angler’s All, on S. Sante Fe, Royal Stevens on Hampden, and Complete Angler on Arapahoe (?). They’re all pretty good, and if you get into R Stevens tell Steve I said Hi!. </chaz

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Hollenbaugh) writes: I’m looking for some recommendations on good fly fishing ships in Denver. I’m a beginner, and I’m looking for a reputable shop that has classes, trips, and most importantly people willing to help transform a novice spinning rod guy into a fly fisherman. TIA KRU Consulting Group                http://rainbow.rmii.com/~csh/kru

Craig,     Two shops come to mind:     The Colorado Angler on West Wadsworth at Nelson (I think).  They are nice people (just a touch of elitism, but only a touch).  The second is Joe Butler’s All Tackle west of the Westminister Mall.  Seems to be a nice place; lots of material.  (Some attitude, but it is tolerable.  It just depends)     There, of course, are others.  There is one on the south side, but I can’t remember the name which is probably the best of the lot. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the name.  If I do, I’ll get back to you.

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I’m looking for some recommendations on good fly fishing ships in Denver. I’m a beginner, and I’m looking for a reputable shop that has classes, trips, and most importantly people willing to help transform a novice spinning rod guy into a fly fisherman. TIA KRU Consulting Group            http://rainbow.rmii.com/~csh/kru

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  I’m looking for some recommendations on good fly fishing ships in Denver.   I’m a beginner, and I’m looking for a reputable shop that has classes,   trips, and most importantly people willing to help transform a novice   spinning rod guy into a fly fisherman.   TIA   KRU Consulting Group          http://rainbow.rmii.com/~csh/kru Go see Len or Darryl at "The Troutfisher" on Parker Rd. IMO, they have the

best selection of equipment and fly-tying materials in the area. Denver, Colorado                ftp.rmii.com/pub2/gwgodden

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Hi, I

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ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON GOOD AREAS/SPOTS ALONG THE DEERFIELD OR MILLERS RIVER FOR FLYFISHING?  HOW ABOUT FOR SPIN FISHING? Thanks,

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ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON GOOD AREAS/SPOTS ALONG THE DEERFIELD OR MILLERS RIVER FOR FLYFISHING?  HOW ABOUT FOR SPIN FISHING? Thanks,

millers … read all about it in this month’s new england fish and game. $2.50   available at  most magazine shops.   complete details on where to park, fish , etc. lexington, ma. 02173

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I,ll be in Missoula May 5-12.  Whenever I get to Montana I like to make the best of it! I have never fished there in early May.  What can I expect?

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Early may can be an excellent ime for our rivers. As long as the runoff hasn’t started, which is usually late may, there will be dry fly activity as well as streamer and nymph fishing. One of my favorite hatches at that time is the Skwala hatch, an olive stonefly.Also there will be Ameletus, a large black mayfly. If you like streamer fishing, there will be plenty of opportunities to fish large nymphs and streamers to imitate the salmonfly which would be hatching within two to four weeks of when you plan to be there. I’m a local guide and would be glad to offer any advice. Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson

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