Question:

I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Response:

How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

One TBone<g. — Charlie…

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How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD. One TBone<g.

I’ll see yer tbone and raise ya a tamato stake.

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I’ll see yer tbone and raise ya a tamato stake.

You livin’ in China now? — Charlie…

Response:

I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

you have it wrong markie….. how much are *you* willing to pay participants to even show up? send me jumbo-jet round-trippers, 14 in total along with $50,000 in pocket cash, and I’ll round up a NC contingent that will whup yer aussies butts and outdrink ya to boot! hope this helps, waldo

Response:

I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

        not nearly as much as i would pay to see you have the "biggest catch" shoved up your ass.         love and kisses from the guys/gals. wayno

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I wouldn’t pay a penny. Fishing is not about competing. When I go fishing I’ve won when I make the first cast. I’ve won because I’m where I want to be doing something for myself regardless of the number of fish I catch. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Response:

   Ah, but there is inherent commercialism and background competition already occurring.  With this stance, would you turn down prize money if you caught a world record fish and the company that makes your rod, reel or line had a reward for said fish?  Say, a million for a world record bucket mouth caught on a Daiwa rod?  You’ve already paid for entry into this competition as part of the purchase price of the rod.  Have you ever been in a "big fish pool" on a trip, winner takes all?  I think its all about degree.  Would I go on a tournament trail?  No.  Would I occasionally fish a tournament on my home waters?  Maybe. How much would I pay?  Depends on how many are entered, how much of the kitty is by sponsors, what are my odds.  Would I fish it for charity?  Yes, if I was sure that some ones charity would get the bucks.             Frank Reid   I think the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t pay a penny. Fishing is not about competing. When I go fishing I’ve won when I make the first cast. I’ve won because I’m where I want to be doing something for myself regardless of the number of fish I catch. Paul I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

Before you buy.

Response:

Wow, makes rofb look tame. Atta boy, Wayno….tell ‘em like it is. — I say we fish 5, work 2. Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – mark barry crossposted the following: I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.         not nearly as much as i would pay to see you have the "biggest catch" shoved up your ass.         love and kisses from the guys/gals. Now before all you ROFBers get your panties in a twist this bit of off-color commentary by Mr. Harrison was precipitated by Mr. Barry’s crossposting. Post something about "fishing competitions" to the flyfishing newsgroup and this is a relatively mild example of what you can expect as a response. And Bob Redding, I strongly suggest you not send threatening email to Mr. Harrison. He’s one of North Carolina’s most respected criminal defense attorneys and he does not suffer fools well. — Ken Fortenberry

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So what is this research all about?  Why don’t you direct it to B.A.S.S. They sponsor hundreds of tournaments weekly. Suggest you try to understand fly fishermen (guys/gals) before posting such requests. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

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That question can only be asked of yourself, who is the only possible true source of any useful input. In all honesty, how good a fisherman are you? How good is your competition? What do you know that they don’t? What do you do that they can’t? What do you have that they don’t? Your answers are almost as important as your willingness to accept them. You will probably find an honest answer to be the entry fee is worth what you are willing to spend for a good time, and no more. That amount will naturally increase as your love of gambling increases, so the final answer was in you all along. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

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(snip)  That amount will naturally increase as your love of gambling increases, so the final answer was in you all along.

        (hyperbolic hogshit claiming world domination in metallic lure snipped)         well, i’ll be damned…george has changed his name and gone to post with the glitter boat crowd! wayno the blessing counter

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Oh heck, I’ll shove in a couple grand I guess. Don’t be checking my damn livewell before blast-off though.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some research on fishing competitions and would like some input guys/gals. How much would you be willing to pay to enter a competition where the winner of the biggest catch over a weekend wins $50,000 USD.

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Question:

Try hitting a beef shank bone if you want to hear shear pins in action… /daytripper (in a winter wonder land)

Here in Wisconsin we generally come up on the cow from behind.  Once the auger makes contact with the tail the cow invariably moves off  the driveway, post haste.  No need to hit ‘em in the shanks! Wolfgang in lala land

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Fortenberry writes: Oh holey moley, THIS is what passes for trash talk amongst the geriatric set. One-upmanship over snowblowers fer cryin’ out loud. I’m still shovelin’ and still castin’ that 9′ bamboo. — Ken Fortenberry- neener neener neener

Just took the new car with the 255/45 17inch performance tires to the super market.  It does not like snow!!!  d;0) Bought some strawberries and water melon. Have lots of martini fixins. Everything is copesetic. Dave L.

Response:

Just took the new car with the 255/45 17inch performance tires to the super market.  It does not like snow!!!  d;0) Bought some strawberries and water melon. Have lots of martini fixins. Everything is copesetic. Dave L.

Wha’d ya buy?  (got check out what I’m likely gonna be chasin’) Peter

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Peter Charles: Wha’d ya buy?  (got check out what I’m likely gonna be chasin’)

A 2000 Audi A6 with the 300bhp 4.2L engine.  Goes like stink, but not in the snow with 255/40-17 Y rated tires.  It’s actually scarey out there.  Jo’s got the farm implement. Dave L.

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[a lot of snow whining snipped] The get a bit of snow and listen to the wusses. Nannook Peter Peter

Hey, now, don’t mistake my post for a complaint. Being snowbound gives me just the excuse I needed to work on the fly rod I’m building (since I’m not a fly tier, what else am I gonna do?). It is pretty amazing that we’ve had 17" of snowfall in the last 18 hours or so in Cary, NC. I grew up in Utah and can’t remember ever having that much snowfall in one day. Pass the back bacon, eh. –Steve

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A 2000 Audi A6 with the 300bhp 4.2L engine.  Goes like stink, but not in the snow with 255/40-17 Y rated tires.  It’s actually scarey out there.  Jo’s got the farm implement. Dave L.

AWESOME – you will be bringing that up here won’t you <GGGGGGGG Peter

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Just cleared six inches off the driveway.  My 15 year old Dukakus snowblower is still going strong. Hah! That’s a baby! My 30" 8hp Ariens was built in 1967. Bought it for $75 ten years ago, dropped all of $30 into it for a new carb, plug, and traction lock pin, and it starts first pull every time. They built this one to outlast a couple of owners ;^) Oh holey moley, THIS is what passes for trash talk amongst the geriatric set. One-upmanship over snowblowers fer cryin’ out loud.

Well, heck, what do you expect us geriatrics to be doing, anyway? We can’t even FIND open water under all this white stuff, never mind fish it! And actually, I thought that was one-downmanship, but what do I know. I was responding to someone who bought a $40000 accident-waiting-to-happen ;^) I’m still shovelin’ and still castin’ that 9′ bamboo.

If you put down the 9′ bamboo you’ll cast that shovel further ;^) /daytripper (snowblind in stow)

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Day Tripper: If you put down the 9′ bamboo you’ll cast that shovel further ;^) /daytripper (snowblind in stow)

Farther. Dave, duckin’ in the snow five miles south of Dave. Dave L.

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Day Tripper: If you put down the 9′ bamboo you’ll cast that shovel further ;^) /daytripper (snowblind in stow) Farther.

Oh well. I can spell just fine, but I need a context-checker! Dave, duckin’ in the snow five miles south of Dave.

I can still SEEEEEEE you! We didn’t get THAT much snow ;^) /daytripper (now comes the freezin’ rain…)

Response:

Out here in the beautiful Western end of Massachusetts, I just finished clearing the first 6" and it’s now turning to sleet.  Oh joy. Hope it clears up before I drive down to Somerset, NJ Friday.  Picture on the front page of the local paper is a snow plow clearing snow off one of the local ponds – time for skating, not fishing.  A friend tells me he caught a good sized pickerel through the ice on a black wooly bugger Saturday… –Stan

You and me both Stan… I plan on coming out on Friday to view with out the crowds and then again on Saturday to meet with abunch of others on I’ll be driving back and forth though… It was sleeting today in So.Jersey but the main roads were in good shape. Plan on a long drive. Most of the speed limits are heavily reduced. — Michael Era

Question:

For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area). … Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed…

I’ll confess to being part of the problem. We were in Taos for a week last October and found it a wonderful vacation spot both for me and my flyfishing and Kristine and her shopping/photography. I was able to find solitude, in October, the further I got from the "Enchanted Circle", FWIW. — Ken Fortenberry

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For much of the past decade my family and I have vacationed in North- Central New Mexico (Santa Fe/Taos area).  It always seemed to offer something for everyone…culture and restaurants for my wife, fishing and hiking for me.  I returned last week after an absence of 3 years and couldn’t believe the increase in fishing pressure and resulting reduction in fishing quality. Exhibit 1 — an small, alpine tailwater (maybe 60 cfm)with a nice population of cuts.  Catch and release.  Fished it three years ago, in the prime water on a WEEKEND, and saw one other rod all day.  Last week, on a Tuesday, had to scramble to find a stretch to fish.  At least 10 other rods on a 1.5 mile stretch. Exhibit 2 — a tiny mountain stream, 2 hour drive from anywhere. Walked in and got no hits.  Started moving quickly, and eventually ran into a fisherman.  I’d been fishing in his wake.  Walked another half mile, same problem.  Eventually had to drive a mile downstream, and walk another mile to get onto virgin water, then had a reasonable time. Unlike streams in places like Montana (or even the San Juan), the streams in North-Central NM are generally so small that they can’t support very much pressure.  Historically they’ve been wonderful, since few people fished them.  But that seems to have changed… Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

    I’m looking for plans for a small plywood flat- bottomed flyfishing pram. Something well thought out but easy to build by a ham handed handyman. Is there anything available on the net? Al.

Response:

Try http://www.glen-l.com/ . I haven’t used them, but am seriously considering. They have a nice selection of plans, pictures, and instructions. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I’m looking for plans for a small plywood flat- bottomed flyfishing pram. Something well thought out but easy to build by a ham handed handyman. Is there anything available on the net? Al.

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Question:

Does anyone have any favorite fly fishing sites in the area around Lake Superior Provincial Park and Wawa? Thanks in advance Brian

I think you’ll have your best luck in the Wawa.

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Does anyone have any favorite fly fishing sites in the area around Lake Superior Provincial Park and Wawa?

Yes. Tom Burczyk

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says… Does anyone have any favorite fly fishing sites in the area around Lake Superior Provincial Park and Wawa? Thanks in advance Brian

It’s been awhile since my last visit, but I’ve caught some nice fish on the Batchawana(sp) river.

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Thanks in advance Brian

What time of year? The first two weeks in August

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Does anyone have any favorite fly fishing sites in the area around Lake Superior Provincial Park and Wawa? Thanks in advance Brian

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Question:

How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                                 Bob

Hi Bob For my casting style I prefer the the Sage RPL. To me the Loomis feels a bit non responsive compared to the Sage — the Loomis feels dead and the Sage feels alive putting it another way. I’m sure there are those who disagree but that’s why there are different rod manufacturers. Any way, Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                                 Bob

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How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                            Bob

Hello Bob         I can’t speak for the RPL. I can give you my opinion on the IMX. I had a 10′ IMX made for me recently.  It has action that is a little on the stiff side of medium. IMHO it is the best rod I have ever cast a line with. It takes less wrist effort to cast 50′ of line than it does to stir my coffee in the morning         Did have a chance to try a friends Sage on the weekend. It was not an RPL though. It was nice enough, but I still prefer mine. Take Care and Smash Barbs Joel Sampson Micro Computer Co-ordinator Computer Services Saint Mary’s University 923 Robie Street Halifax, Nova Scotia (p) (902) 420-5880 (f) (902) 496-8103

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                               Bob

Hi Bob I blew up three IMX rods, one while casting and two while fighting fish. I don’t know if I was just unlucky or not but was given a Sage to try in that same time frame and have not fished a Loomis since. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does the action of these two rods compare? Any opinions? The Sage sure looks nicer.                            Bob

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Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead.

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  I have several Loomis rods.  My first IMX, a 6# purchased shortly after they were released, broke repeatedly and was replaced without charge other than my shipping it back to them.  It took three trys but has now been solid for three years.   I believe the top of the line is now the GMX (if I have my alphabet straight).  It has a softer tip than the older IMX and is a very sweet rod in the four piece #4 and #6 sizes.   Most Loomis rods have a dull gray finish.  I happen to like the look, but the important question is whether it’s less visable to the trout when waved over the water on a sunny day. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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: Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends : gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead. I don’t know about this… The Sage posters are among the prettiest photos of fly fishing I have seen.  Must cost a pretty big coin. And what’s the real deal on those posters… just about every fly shop I’ve visited in the West claims the owner is the fisherman in the photo on the wall. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: Easy. One has a lifetime,unconditional warranty, the other spends : gazillions on beautiful magazine ads instead. I don’t know about this… The Sage posters are among the prettiest photos of fly fishing I have seen.  Must cost a pretty big coin.

The Sage ads usually have some real nice photos as do the Winston ads.  Personally, I like the Scott "lifting power" ad with the jet skier and the one with the guy practicing his flycasting from atop a building in Manhatten. John Fereira

Response:

If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping.

Catch, How’d you break your Sages? I also had heard of very high breakage rates but that was years ago when several manufacturers, of which Loomis was one, were racing to gain market share by bringing out rods made with new materials. I was under the impression that the bulk of their problems had been solved although over the years I have talked to only one angler astream using Loomis (I live in the east where they have a smaller presence) and he fished it as if it was made of crystal instead of graphite because of a previous fishing breakage and the feeling after talking to Loomis that they would not replace it again. It did not appear to be a very enjoyable fishing experience for him. The original post related to casting rather than durability and from comparative reviews I have seen the Loomis does offer a different casting experience due to its stiffness. I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have a pre-new materials war Sage closet rod (or more charitably – a nymphing rod) and finances permitting, am interested in upgrading it to a stream rod but would like to hear about the casting virtues and vices of the newer rods. Thanks Tim

Response:

Among other rods, I own a Loomis 10′ 6wt IMX and a Sage 9′6" RPL 6wt. These are my steelheading rods. The Loomis just happens to fit my casting style better than the Sage, but the Sage (which I built from a blem blank) was needed as a backup since the Loomis was very brittle and I broke it more times than I like to admit.   Except for one time when I broke it by accidentally hitting a branch with the tip while casting and one time catching it in the door to my PU canopy, all the other breaks seemed to be the result of overstressing the rod during casting. Regardless of the reason, which I always disclosed, Loomis always replaced the rod with no questions asked and at no cost – even shipping. The last time it broke,the turn around time was only three days. I think that the last one they sent me is a slightly different composition, not that it casts any differently, but it has endured 2 1/2 years of heavy fishing without breaking ( a new personal record ). Most knowledgeable casters who have watched me cast ( for steelhead on big waters) tell me that my style seems to overstress the rod. Bob Weinberger – La Grande, OR —

Response:

Among other rods, I own a Loomis 10′ 6wt IMX and a Sage 9′6" RPL 6wt. These are my steelheading rods. The Loomis just happens to fit my casting style better than the Sage, but the Sage (which I built from a blem blank) was needed as a backup since the Loomis was very brittle and I broke it more times than I like to admit. Bob Weinberger – La Grande, OR —

I have a 9′6" 6 wgt RPL which has seen better years.  After two sets of guides and reworking of the handle, I decided that it was time to build a new one.  To my great regret, I discovered that they no longer make the 9′6" RPL blank.  The RPL-X is vile.   I gnash my teeth… This is a great steelhead and searun rod.  Good float tubing rod as well. Too bad you can’t get one anymore.

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I have a 3 wt IMX and a 5 wt Sage RPL. Although I grab the Sage first when going to the stream, I use the IMX often enough to like it as a distance casting rod although I use a 4 wt line. It dosen’t have the line speed that the RPL has but it takes very little effort to cast. On a 2+ day trip I take both but I only use the 3 wt for dry fly. If push came to shove, it would be the Sage. — "The true Angler is content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re looking to buy an IMX be aware that Loomis no longer makes this blank.  It has been replaced by the GL4.  I was told (can anyone out there confirm?) that the reason they ditched the IMX was because of the number of breakages that model line had. One other thing: Sage does offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Loomis does not.  Someone that I sold a Loomis blank to recently told me it cost him $40 to get the tip section replaced, in addition to the shipping costs.  I’ve broken two Sage rods in the last 3 years, and both times they charged me only for shipping. Catch, How’d you break your Sages? I also had heard of very high breakage rates but that was years ago when several manufacturers, of which Loomis was one, were racing to gain market share by bringing out rods made with new materials. I was under the impression that the bulk of their problems had been solved although over the years I have talked to only one angler astream using Loomis (I live in the east where they have a smaller presence) and he fished it as if it was made of crystal instead of graphite because of a previous fishing breakage and the feeling after talking to Loomis that they would not replace it again. It did not appear to be a very enjoyable fishing experience for him. The original post related to casting rather than durability and from comparative reviews I have seen the Loomis does offer a different casting experience due to its stiffness. I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have a pre-new materials war Sage closet rod (or more charitably – a nymphing rod) and finances permitting, am interested in upgrading it to a stream rod but would like to hear about the casting virtues and vices of the newer rods. Thanks Tim

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I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of both? I have

I can’t comment on the IMX.  My old beat-up RPL is great for shooting line half way accross a lake, but when it comes to laying down a gentle cast to spooky fish in shallow water, forget it.  The harder I try to be delicate, the harder it slaps the water.  Still, I like the rod. — -Wayne Trzyna

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<<The harder I try to be delicate, the harder it slaps the water. The reason it slaps the water is because you are putting the power in too late.  Try pushing your thumb towards something on the far bank when you cast, so that the whole thing turns over before it touches down.  I also suspect you are overpowering the rod.  Get your timing right and you should be able to throw the whole flyline without hearing the rod "swish" at all. Hope this helps. William Daniel

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<<I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of

both? You’ve picked the 2 best brands, IMO.  The old RPL’s are not as quick as the Loomis IMX, but these are being phased out as the new RPL+ rods come in – these are very fast, if that’s what you are after.  Frankly you pays your money and takes your choice.  I go for the Sages myself. William Daniel

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<<I know there are those who "Love my Loomis" or "Wouldn’t trade my Sage for anything" but is there anyone here who has used both and is willing to offer up an opinion, hopefully unbiased with thoughts, on the casting merits of

both? Perhaps a better route would be for you to go cast the models that are suited for your needs and decide for yourself. I tried a Sage RPL for a 4 when they first came out. Caught a 7-1/2 lb rainbow on a #22 h.e. emerger on it. Sent the rod back because I didn’t care for it’s casting capabilities in close (under 30 ft). Ordered a Scott and have never looked back. Casts way better in close and is just fine for distance. Does that make the Scott better? Of course not. It’s better for me and the way I cast. Suggest you find a shop that carries the rods you’re interested in, describe your needs.  I suspect they will let you try out the rods. If the owner is really knowledgeable, stocks a variety of rods, and is a good listener (Harry Murray of Murray’s Fly Shop in Edinburgh, Va comes to mind.), it will be a short process. As for cost be sensible. If you make the right choice, you’ll be fishing it for many many years. A few bucks more for the rod you like could be well worth it over a decade or two or three. If you make the wrong one, it really doesn’t matter what the rod cost. Good luck. BP

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Question:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

Response:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it

Classical answer is: — on bare metal shank (i.e. slippery;  thread coverage inhibits hair’s spinning uniformly) — place cleaned pinch of hair (fluff removed) — take not one but two turns of thread — initially loose, not tight — then tighten decisively, with a firm continuous pull. This should cause the hair to spin reasonably uniformly.  If so, then you can see about packing the whole rearwards with thumbnails, winding thread back and forward through the packed hair for extra firmness, etc. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic?

Hi Jon The trick in working with deer hair is the material being matched to the job.  If you are tying wings and tails you need one type of hair and if you are spinning the hair you need another type Wings & Tails – best hair is located on the hide along the back bone, the shoulder, and the rump.  In small packages this hair is best recognized by the dark grey color in the center part of the hair fibers. Spinning – best hair is located on the hide down on the rib and belly.   This hair is best recognized by the light grey color in the center part of the fiber. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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try wrapping loosely first slippin it in between yer thumband forefinger of the hand that yer holding the hair.  do this twice, successfully tighten and then buckle down.  Remember u can rebunch it and slide it back around the shank. stack it baby. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

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Question:

Every year, hunter friends give me deer hides and tails. Is there anyone out there who has successfully dyed deer hair? I would like to end up with vibrant yellow, red, and green. Any help would be greatly appreciated

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In regards to your question, I have been somwhat succesful with dyeing hair. I fyou have some of the under belly, (all white) thats the best to work with. You are able to dye over the natural, but it is not as bright and vivid. I use Rit-Dye and just follow the directions. I dont use any of the acid-dyes, simply because I think it is to complicated. I hope this was of some help. Mike

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Every year, hunter friends give me deer hides and tails. Is there anyone out there who has successfully dyed deer hair? I would like to end up with vibrant yellow, red, and green. Any help would be greatly appreciated

There are no shortcuts.    Step 1. Degrease and clean the hair with Veniard’s degreaser.     Step 2. Bleach the hair with *commercial* hair bleach such as Basic White (the best I’ve used . . . must be purchased through a beauty salon). The over the counter bleaches will simply turn your hair a yellowish brown.    Step 3. Dye with your favorite die. I like Veniard’s for the most intense colors possible. For more eathy colors like greens, browns, straw, etc., Rit is fine.    Tight lines, Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

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Thanks Ralph. Good advice. As usual, there never is an acceptable shortcut to a proper end-product. Unfortunately, I am not at all familiar with the Veniard product line. Any clues as to where I might start looking? Your input much appreciated.

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Every year, hunter friends give me deer hides and tails. Is there anyone out there who has successfully dyed deer hair? I would like to end up with vibrant yellow, red, and green. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Method 1: Home Brew I’ve dyed deer hair yellow, red, green and black using RIT brand LIQUID dyes bought at the grocery with results as good as you can buy, but I can’t call them vibrant. The belly hair takes better than the darker parts. Make sure the hide scrap is clean. I use dishwashing liquid. Mix the dye as strong as you like. Soak scraps in hot solution for about 20 minutes. Make sure to "set" the dye by adding white vinegar to the brew when the color is dark enough. Method 2: Totally Scientific Look to the 3 part series in ‘94 issues of American Angler for a dye-meister’s techniques. The may/june, july/august & september/october issues have William T. Roubal’s techniques for truly vibrant colors with modern dyes, natural dyes, etc. He is supposed to have a book out on the same subject. If you can’t locate back issues drop me e-mail and I’ll Xerox the series and mail it to you. Make big fun. mayfly

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In regards to your question, I have been somwhat succesful with dyeing hair. I fyou have some of the under belly, (all white) thats the best to work with. You are able to dye over the natural, but it is not as bright and vivid. I use Rit-Dye and just follow the directions. I dont use any of the acid-dyes, simply because I think it is to complicated. I hope this was of some help. Mike

Mike, Take a look at A.K. Best’s "Dyeing and Bleaching Natural Fly Tying Materials"  It’s a great book and goes in depth into degreasing etc… Good Luck! Jack

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Does A.K.’s book deal with rit dye or is is all acid dyes? I have read the articles in American Angler(except for the first and last one, cant find those issues) and it seems to complicated for me. I just want some good colors and I think I am abel to get them with the rit-dye method. -Mike

Hi Mike, In addition to Rit dye I also use Veniards. If you can find them their colors are much brighter and vibrant. Good Luck! Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Apart from all the other advantages, hand tied leaders offer two distinct advantages for me.         1. I seem to present the fly better with a hand tied leader         2. One of cost, they are distinctly cheaper.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

One word of caution about both braided shooting line and level flyline for use in the surf. These lines can pick up particles of sand and abrade both your guides and your fly rod.  It depends upon the nature of the beach, but under the right conditions you can ruin a fly rod in one outing. However under some circumstances these shooting lines can work great. Ian Walker

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1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

I had the same problem with weighted clousers of that size and still have the bumps on the back of my head to prove it! Someone replied to my post on this matter and suggested that I try using a shorter leader while someone else replied suggesting that I use a uniform diameter mono leader that is relatively stiff. I tried combining the suggestions by attaching a three foot section of 12#test Berkely Big Game to the end of my Fenwick 9wt WF intermediate sinking line. The fly moved better in the air during false casts, but the mono just couldn’t turn over the fly for a straight presentation. Not that the presentation is essential for the fish, but it helps to keep the line from fouling even before I start stripping. This worked a bit better when I dropped the fly size down to a #2 clouser, but it didn’t solve my original problem. Longer mono sections proved worse in practice and shorter tapered leaders didn’t do it either. I’m still stumped. I recently purchased a 12wt for fishing rougher surf on the south shore of Long Island and was sort of hoping that the line weight increase would help in this situation (I’ll be casting some heavy epoxy flys too). Too bad…. 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket.

Are you using the collapsable variety or the dishpan with/without mono fingers? I use the collapsable and thought that was the problem. Then I fished with another salty flyrodder who had the dishpan (without mono fingers) and he had the same problem…. HH&TL,       Jose

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood. From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe!

I am sorry that I did not state this exception in my initial post.  I definitely agree that when the diameters are quite different, I have a difficult time getting a blood knot to hold.  I generally use 3 wraps on each side of the knot, but I will use possibly 5 wraps when tying different size diameters together.  I should possibly consider the surgeons knot in this instance. I am happy to hear someone else who doesn’t think the blood knot is hard to tie.  It is simple: a couple wraps and through, a couple wraps and through, wet, tighten, snip, fish. question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference?

I have tried, but I really have not seen any difference.  It might help prevent the blood knot pulling out in the circumstances outlined above. Enough rambling on my part.  I like the often-chastised blood knot. -tgades

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I would like to cast a vote for tying your own leaders.  True, knotless leaders are easy and do not pick up moss and debris but a hand-tied leader will improve your presentation with drys if you use a hard/soft leader/tippet system.  FlyFisherman has an article in the July edition that talks about it some.  I’ve tied my own leaders for about a year and a half and think they’re worth the effort.

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I would go with the handtied leader.  I use a permanent butt section   attached to my flyline with a nail knot and with a perfection loop in the   end.  I put a perfection loop in the end of my leaders and use a loop to   loop connection.  The flyfish listserv has had extensive discussion   recently concerning failures of braided leader connections at the point   of attachment to the flyline. —   Dept. of Chemistry Centre College 600 W. Walnut St. Danville, KY 40422 phone (606)238-5416

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Conrad,         What do I have to do to subscribe to this flyfish listserv? Jim

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" If you want, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

And now a question to bcurry and other ff surfcasters. I was surfcasting last night in Santa Cruz and I had a bitch throwing a 1/0 deceiver. My rodbuilder flipped me a reel to try. This reel (in this order) backing, clear mono, and a 30′ shooting head had a six foot mono leader that I practiced for 2 weeks on grass. All was well. I have a 9′graphite 12 wght rod and the loaner reel/shooting head is about the same. Added to the mono "leader" I added 12′ 5 lb test leader and my deceiver It was foul city. In the surf, with a 30 foot shooting head 2 questions come to mind: 1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

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1. Can you recommend a [in the surf] leader formula for 1/0-3/0 flies perch, stripers are the prize

The Lefty Kreh/Mark Sosin book Practical Fishing Knots II gives a good methodology for constructing saltwater leaders. I use all Mason hard mono for my saltwater leaders, which I tie in the methods suggested in Kreh/Sosin. (i.e. Surgeon’s loops, bimini twists, huffnagle knots, etc.) 2. Can you surfcasters get anecdotal about your line selection (i.e. what is better in waves… a 30′ shooting head attached to mono? or a 30′ head attached to some floating line? 3.This mono curled like Harpo Marx in my shooting basket. I would think some real fly line (like my 7 wt 444 sinking line) would at least lay flat in the bottom of my basket. thanks for the know-how

Check out the Teeny running lines. They’re made of limp, braided material which doesn’t curl up and will shoot through the guides easily in case it gets tangled. They’re neutrally-bouyant rather than high-floating like floating fly lines. I like them better than the level fly line-type running lines, but they’re a bit pricey. (Cope & McPheter’s carries them in the Bay area…) Regards, Fred

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. Though I’ve been using borrowed gear, I’m going to buy my own rod/reel soon. Unless I hear lots of negative reports about it (I’ve heard tons of good reports), I’m goin to go with the Orvis Clearwater Henry’s Fork outfit (8.5ft/5wt), since about $150-175 is my limit. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)? Also, I’m wondering about waders, but I’ve posted that separately. Thanks Steven Jarvis

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I’m just getting started flyfishing, and I’m hooked. My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Use the braided leader/tippet.  I do and like them a lot.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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I like to use knotless tapered leaders. maybe because I’m lazy, but there may be some very slight advantages with them. There are no knots to create drag, and the material has no "memory" (the hand tied t.l.’s i bought at the Yellowstone Angler took forever to straighten out). Also, I noticed that the braided sections can sometimes soak enough water to make them ride just under the surface of the water, which can be annoying. However, these factors are so slight that if your traditional tendencies say tie them yourself then that’s what you should do. Let us know if you have ?’s about size, lengths etc.

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Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

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My real question here, though, is about leaders. I know that Orvis (esp. since I’m buying my rod/reel/line from them) has several different kinds of leader systems: knotless leaders, braided leader system (which seems pretty snazzy), and the ol’ tie ‘em yourself from scratch method (which appeals to the traditionalist in me). Should I start with a knotless or braided leader/tippet system? or Should I learn to tie leaders myself (using books/friends/etc. as advice)?

Hi, I’d recommend the traditionalist choice, which happens to be the cheapest, too. Learning to tie your own leaders isn’t hard, and works really well, because you can change at will, when the occasion calls for it. Also, you’ll find that some species just don’t have pre-made leaders to buy (i.e. pickerel, which need a 10-15# test, but with a short 6" 30# opr more section to avoid "bite-offs". If you wantr, I can provide size and length parameters for most species, just tell me which ones you are going for. (and yes, we do sell ready made leaders, too!) Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in about 30 seconds. It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT

I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have personally found the answer to be the blood. -tgades

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: Should you decide to tie your own leaders, for God’s sake free yourself : from the tyranny of the blood knot.  You can learn the surgeons knot in : about 30 seconds. : It’s quicker, its better and it HOLDS.  Remember, all this is supposed to : be fun, not rocket science. RLPPT : I think that being easier to tie is the ONLY possible advantage that the : surgeons knot has over the blood.  From my informal tests, I believe the blood : knot to be stronger.  Your mileage may vary, but I’d think that there would : be a definite answer to this question.  Namely: which is stronger a properly : tied blood or properly tied surgeons knot. I have found the surgeons knot superior when the diameters of the two lines differs by more than a few x’s.  This happens mostly when I use a knotless leader and have changed flies a few times too often. I’ve found the blood knot clearly superior when the diameters are nearly the same…as they are when I’m tying my on leaders.  They don’t take long to tie, either, once you get the hang of it.  My biggest problem with the blood knot: I can’t tie it while smoking my pipe! question: do any of you put zap-a-gap or something similar on the blood knots in your leaders?  Doesit make a difference? — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Question:

I’d like to apologize to Mark for flaming him.  That was not my intent!  My intent was to poke a little fun at elitist dry fly fishermen who look down on nymphing.  BTW my perferred method of fishing is with a dry fly or emerger, but only when it is effective, most of the time it’s just not as effective as nymphing.  IMO nymphing in many ways is more challenging than dry fly fishing.   For example dead drift is every bit as important to nymphing as with a dry fly presentation but tougher due to the differential current speeds from surface to stream bottom.

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Keywords: I got  e-mail in response to a previous post  and I thought I’d share it with the group. Mark Writes in response to my post below: For nymphs fished dead drift I always use long leaders, indicators and lead. when you say "indicators", are you referring to "bobbers"? i.e. Little things that float around and bounce up and down when a fish bites.                           Mark

Yes Mark that’s exactly what I mean and with no apologies.  Except for sight nymphing where you can see both the fish and the nymph at the same time, its almost impossible to see the take by watching your line (another little thing that floats around and bounces up and down when a fish bites).   Even with an indicator experienced fisheman miss at least 50% of the takes.  This experience comes from years of fishing to sighted fish with partners, where one partner spots for the other.   Frequently, when I’m up on a bank with a good angle, I’ve watched the trout we’re hunting inhale the nymph with no movement in the line leader or indicator.  A nymphing trout’s take is very subtle.  They suck the nymph and almost as quickly blow it back out again if you don’t set the hook. So Mark if you can’t stomache using a bobber or indicator, then just sit back and continue to be   self satisfied catching only the trout dumb enough to hook themselves (Usually the smaller ones who have to dart in from the side.), then by all means continue.   I’ll just have to take my satisfaction from success on the water, knowing deep down inside that somehow I’m just not the fisherman I could be if I could only loose my dependence on those bobbers! Just in case anyone out there thinks I’m serious.  I don’t know a single nymph fisherman, whose opinion I respect, who doesn’t use indicators ( that includes Andre Puyans, Mike Lawson, Lamb, etc.).  I vary the type of indicator to the conditions I’m fishing.   In fast water I use Marks bobbers to set the depth of float as much as anything.  In fast water the line drag usually sets the hook sets the hook before you’ll see the indicator move or pause.  In glass smooth gin clear water I use either a little silicon on the leader or a small tuft of yarn.  But what the heck it’s all bobber fishing right Mark.

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