Question:

[...] PULEAZE cease with the html. Text only, thanks very much.

Response:

[snipped] <yawn how about yawning us an answer, eh mr. grey matter?

OK, if you promise not to top post any longer? There is no "answer", as anyone with a collection of more than a couple of flyrods (or over two dozen, in my case) will attest. We often allow ourselves "current favorites", and on occasion may even profess to a single "favorite" rod. But within a week we’re loving another just as much. We’re fickle. Sue us But, fwiw, I’ve got nothing better to do during rehab this morning, so I’ll play along: the finest five piece nine foot eight weight rod ever made is *my* Winston BL5 9/8. It has the sweetest action of any 8 or 9 weight in my stable (6 or 7 rods in that range) and you never notice the ferrules. It *is* the Holy Grail – if that happens to describe a highly portable bonefish and striper machine with no equal, period. OK? /daytripper (tune in later when I wax eloquent over my 7/2, or one of my 9/5s, or ….)

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain. The Leonard used by G.E.M. Skues.  It was more than a little responsible for some of his excellent writings and musings.

For me, there isn’t _one_ particular rod as there are too many that would fit the above description, and like most things involving tackle, no one would agree – one person’s "Holy Grail" is another’s flea-market, carnival glass candy dish.   For example, in no particular order, the above mentioned rod, rods used by Bergman, Ed Payne’s first rod (or a Payne-ferruled Leonard), Hemingway-owned rods, various Garrison rods (for example, very early rods, such as John Alden Knight’s or Miller’s "Wyandach" rod, or even the first of certain tapers) or even the borrowed Payne that started Garrison off.   Heck, even the rod(s) used in "the movie," or just the first split-bamboo, fiberglass, or graphite, etc. might qualify to one or more people. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain. The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price).

I suppose in very general terms, assuming a middle and general range of size, either the early Payne (the later Paynes are not, IMO, the rods the early rods were) or Garrison rods, given the "pinnacle of the rod building craft" condition.  But they have the disadvantage of needing a certain level of care.   That said, I don’t think there is a specific "Rolls-Royce of flyrods." A 6 1/2′ foot Payne to a saltwater fisher is little more than kindling, and a big Garrison with a large Fin-Nor to a small-stream trouter is a tentpole.  As to pure workmanship, I have a Payne-made multipart/multirod "set," thought to be a "one-off," that is probably the finest overall workmanship I’ve ever seen (and others have agreed), but as a true fishing "masterpiece," IMO, it’s marginal, given it’s bulk and as a whole, its overall lack of practicality.  But I also have what was a very inexpensive very light St. Croix glass, completely redone, that is as good at its purpose any I’ve used, and the finish is, again, IMO, as good as it comes. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke I know some of the rods from Bruce and Walker were pretty awful, in fact I cast a few.  This I feel was due to many of them having the wrong design characteristics. I did  not handle them all, and none of the salmon rods, so my comments are rather general in nature, and should not be construed as a general condemnation of the B&W rods.

I fish for salmon either with a 9 foot hardy – the first rod I bought – 6/7 weight, on which I’ve also caught most of my salmon, or on a B&W ‘Silver Stream’ 12 foot, which was never highly regarded but which I love, or a lovely rod (to my hand) – a very gentle 15 foot B&W ‘grilse’ – only 6 or 7 weight, but terrific for covering bouldery streams – quite big – like the upper reaches of the Finn, in Donegal, or the Mourne, in Tyrone, which are my favourite salmon rivers. These two rods are  quite slow, but they don’t get all nervous in the big winds of the West of Ireland, and you can keep control of the line and, if you’re lucky, the fish, in amongst all those boulders. So I like B&W a lot. SNIP As I have also said before, these rods are "fishing" tools, not "casting" tools. If you want a cannon, then get a super fast Sage or Loomis etc.  If you want pleasurable tireless fishing on rivers and streams, get either a good cane, ( not my preference, too much trouble,, and too expensive anyway), or a Hexagraph.

I agree with this distinction. Especially with salmon, you have to enjoy casting, rather than worry about it, since you may end up doing an awful lot of it for any fish you may hook. So I’m all for an easy, pleasant action rather than something that shoots the line a bit further. And few of the trout I catch are hooked more than (at the most) fifteen yards away. Occasionally, for fun, I’ll  cast a trout line further, but it’s only for the fun. i know that at that sort of distance the fly will be dragging enough for the fish to see, even if I can’t. That said, I’m very fond of a couple of rods I built myself from Sage reject blanks at fifty bucks apiece. L — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

<snip Deal with it, luser… /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

I dunno, Dave. I think you showed amazing restraint. I thought his indignant reply to your post would *really* set you off!  :) Tim

Response:

Oh, blow it out your ample arse, newbie. Someone posts an obvious troll ("duckin’ and runnin’", wasn’t it?) and you expect RESPECT for that act? /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

Well, at least he didn’t ask what everyone’s favorite "social lubricant" was…under the name of "Trixie ‘Biguns’ LaBoom"…from Dripping Springs, Texas… TC, R "standing tall and taunting…."

Response:

The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price).

fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). fascinated by this, mike. Although I fish for salmon with B&W, this is the first good word I’ve heard about the hexagraph range. I’m shocked, btw, to learn that you’re even younger than I am. Ah those youthful days! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

I know some of the rods from Bruce and Walker were pretty awful, in fact I cast a few.  This I feel was due to many of them having the wrong design characteristics. I did  not handle them all, and none of the salmon rods, so my comments are rather general in nature, and should not be construed as a general condemnation of the B&W rods. The first carbon fibre rods I handled, were also pretty lousy, as they were obvious attempts to duplicate cane actions. Carbon fibre does not possess many of the limitations of cane, and it seems pretty pointless to duplicate cane rods in this manner. It is in any case impossible to even duplicate cane accurately, unless you also consider the weight, which contributes to the action.  Saying that an ultra-light carbon fibre rod has the same "action" as cane is absolute nonsense, it can not have the same action, it simply does not possess sufficient mass. Notwithstanding its limitations, cane also has advantages. One of these is the "solid" construction. This contributes weight of course, but also gives the rod capabilities which an ultra-light tubular carbon fibre rod simply does not have. You may need to apply so much power to an ultra-light rod, to get it to perform at all, that it becomes infinitely more tiring to use, than a rod which is heavier to start with. One reason why many are now using fibreglass rods again. If these are relatively short, there is no noticeable disadvantage due to excess weight, in fact it is a positive advantage when casting. They are not as troublesome to care for as cane, and they are not as easily damaged either. Also, the "transition" point of a solid rod, the point before which a rod is capable of loading itself, because of its own mass, is much more pronounced, and much more useful for close range work with light lines. Some tubular rods are impossible to cast properly at short range, because one can not move them fast enough to load them. This also considerably reduces the delicacy with which one is able to cast. This, which I consider to be probably the single most important characteristic of a cane rod, can be not only duplicated, but enhanced, using the solid "hexagraph" construction. The resulting blank is perfectly straight, can not warp, is extremely robust, and more or less invulnerable to weather or any other similar damage. It will not take a set, it will cast in a perfectly straight line, without "wobbling", it has no pronounced "spine", ( it has none at all), the deformation common in tubular rods under stress does not take place, it will cast a wide range of weights easily,  etc etc etc. For a long time, it was my ambition to build such a rod, and make the materials and processes available to the home builder. Unfortunately I never realised it. The closest I ever got was building a hexagonal rod tip using fibre glass.  It took me a long time to make it, and the results, although encouraging, did not really warrant the amount of time involved. I am sure that if I could have used carbon fibre, that they would have been much better. I have read a great deal about the hexagraphs, and I have handled quite a few. For quite a while I snapped up all the second hand ones I could get hold of, as far as I could afford them, and I even bought three new ones. Incidentally the only "new" rods I have ever bought in my entire life, which were not either damaged, or heavily discounted in the first place. If I ever have the wherewithal, I would throw all the rods I own away, ( even the "good" ones), and buy myself a range of the new Hexagraphs. I think they are just about the ultimate fishing tool, at this particular point in time. As I have also said before, these rods are "fishing" tools, not "casting" tools. If you want a cannon, then get a super fast Sage or Loomis etc.  If you want pleasurable tireless fishing on rivers and streams, get either a good cane, ( not my preference, too much trouble,, and too expensive anyway), or a Hexagraph. TL MC

Response:

<yawn So sorry my posts don’t amuse you, oh great and powerful Caesar. Please don’t feed me to the lions!  I’ll try harder to please you next time, I promise. Do you treat all strangers with such disrespect?  I guess it’s pretty easy when you have a screen name to hide behind. Pete Greenwood

Oh, blow it out your ample arse, newbie. Someone posts an obvious troll ("duckin’ and runnin’", wasn’t it?) and you expect RESPECT for that act? Here’s what you earned so far: one FOAD on your permanent record. My "screen name" has been here for years and years, and the person behind it is known to far more of the denizens than yours shall ever be. Deal with it, luser… /daytripper (who still doesn’t suffer newbie fools very well at all)

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain. Ducking and covering… Pete Greenwood

Response:

[snipped] <yawn

Response:

how about yawning us an answer, eh mr. grey matter?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snipped] <yawn

Response:

<yawn

So sorry my posts don’t amuse you, oh great and powerful Caesar. Please don’t feed me to the lions!  I’ll try harder to please you next time, I promise. Do you treat all strangers with such disrespect?  I guess it’s pretty easy when you have a screen name to hide behind. Pete Greenwood

Response:

A couple fun questions for the group to chew on… What is the Holy Grail of flyrods?  Be specific.  Pick a single identifiable rod that you feel has more historical significance than any other.  Explain.

The Leonard used by G.E.M. Skues.  It was more than a little responsible for some of his excellent writings and musings. What is the Rolls Royce of flyrods?  Again, be specific.  Pick a single rod (or line of rods)that you feel represents the pinnacle of the rod building craft.  Explain.

The Hexagraph range.  They combine all the desirable attributes of a good fishing rod, without the disadvantages.( excepting the relatively high price). Ducking and covering… Pete Greenwood

Casting and mending…. TL MC

Response:

Question:

I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Fishing East Central Florida and Flyfishing Pages

Response:

I cannot find a serial number on this engine but need to know what the proper float setting is. It is a two cylinder engine with single carb. The carb has the plunger type choke set-up, maybe this will help identify it. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Without seeing the carb design, my vague, general answer for float settings would be: Float height – Hold carb upside down and make the float parallel with the bowl mounting surface.   Float drop – Low… but not touching the bottom of the bowl.   If it’s some other odd-ball design, or if you are unsure of how to do it, a service manual would come in very handy.   Also remember, that if you do something wrong that causes a lean condition, a rebuilt powerhead costs a lot more than having a shop check the carb out. Mike Seiler

Response:

Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

Response:

Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

Response:

Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

Response:

writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Question:

If you know of any fly-fishing guides operating out of Caye Caulker Belize, I would appreciate hearing the reference.  Thanks for your time.  Please respond to address below. — Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"  please remove "nospam" to respond

Response:

If you know of any fly-fishing guides operating out of Caye Caulker Belize, I would appreciate hearing the reference.  Thanks for your time.  Please respond to address below. — Tim Ackerman

Tim:   I was in Belize in February  95  and fished around Placencia and Cay Caulker. I didn’t use a guide at Cay Caulker but Porfilio Guzman was recommended to me and we later met and had a drink. I liked him and kept his card intending to use him if I returned.  Porfilio’s telephone number is/was 022-2152 and rates for the guide that I did use in Placencia was $200/day.    Hope this is helpful. Jim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you know of any fly-fishing guides operating out of Caye Caulker Belize, I would appreciate hearing the reference.  Thanks for your time.  Please respond to address below. — Tim Ackerman Tim:   I was in Belize in February  95  and fished around Placencia and Cay Caulker. I didn’t use a guide at Cay Caulker but Porfilio Guzman was recommended to me and we later met and had a drink. I liked him and kept his card intending to use him if I returned.  Porfilio’s telephone number is/was 022-2152 and rates for the guide that I did use in Placencia was $200/day.    Hope this is helpful. Jim

Thanks for the info on Porfilio Guzman.  I was also in in Placencia in the summer of ‘95 when I used Earl Godfrey for a guide.  I found that you can fish for half the price if you have the contacts.  Were you successful in Placencia?  We did okay on large tarpon and a few bones but the Permit eluded us that trip.  I went down to Belize River Lodge last June and had a good trip; but am looking for a place ( Caye Caulker I hope) where my wife could relax and have fun while I’m fishing. Tim — Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"  please remove "nospam" to respond

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Question:

Greetings! I am interested in discussing saltwater flyfishing techniques with anyone who has tried it in the Pacific Northwest.  I’m especially interested in talking to folks who may have tried flyfishing for cod, seabass, or salmon species. Thanks! Best Wishes, Tim Wittman

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Greetings! I am interested in discussing saltwater flyfishing techniques with anyone who has tried it in the Pacific Northwest.  I’m especially interested in talking to folks who may have tried flyfishing for cod, seabass, or salmon species. Thanks! Best Wishes, Tim Wittman

     i have tried, been fairly successful, and had a great time.  i really enjoy fishing for seabass (black rockfish).  it is more difficult without a boat, but casting flies from a jetty is very challenging fishing, from casting to landing fish.      as for tackle, i use a 9.5 ft. 9 wt.  with a ten foot section of cortland quick descent 425 or 325 grain sink tip.  i use a short leader, with 10 or 12 lb. maxima leader.  the flies i use are tube flies, mostly baitfish patterns from 2-5 inches long. the coolest thing about jetty fishing is when you happen to hook one of the big lings, i haven’t landed one yet (they swim into and under the jetty), but they sure can pull.      as for salmon, a boat helps in puget sound, although there is some beach access for resident coho.  look at the new regs for the strait this year, a 2 week, catch and release, surface flies only coho fishery this summer.  i would like to know if anybody in computer land has had any success fishing pink salmon in the strait of juan de fuca, especially flies and fly lines?       as for cod, i just do not know.  the local paper ran an article a couple days ago on the need for saltwater sanctuaries to bring back bottomfish(cod included) in puget sound. good luck, chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings! I am interested in discussing saltwater flyfishing techniques with anyone who has tried it in the Pacific Northwest.  I’m especially interested in talking to folks who may have tried flyfishing for cod, seabass, or salmon species. Thanks! Best Wishes, Tim Wittman

There are plenty of folks around here doing this; you might want to contact The Northwest Angler in Poulsbo, they specialize in saltwater. They aren’t on line yet, we’re working on it. Fish on, Allen

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings! I am interested in discussing saltwater flyfishing techniques with anyone who has tried it in the Pacific Northwest.  I’m especially interested in talking to folks who may have tried flyfishing for cod, seabass, or salmon species. Thanks! Best Wishes, Tim Wittman

Tim, You might want to try the WaFlyfishers, an email list I maintain.  Send email to:   Subject line.   Activity on the list is sporadic, but there a couple of avid salt-water fly fishers, including myself, that will try to keep you posted. Let me know if you have any problems with the list or if you have any other questions.  BTW, where abouts do you hail from?? -Wes Wes Neuenschwander Seattle, WA, US * Notice:  Email address modified to foil SPAMMERS!!  * *          Delete "cut-it-out" from my email address  * *          to reply.  Sorry for the inconvenience.    *

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Question:

In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks

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I am envious.  I have not been on table rock in 10 years.  Table rock is full of bass and a few rainbow’s.  There are a few main rivers that empty in to Table rock.  One is the white river.  This river has decent fishing, but it soon turns shallow.  The other river is the Roaring River.  Matter a fact I would recommend canning the trip to table rock and heading up to Roaring River State park.  Buy a day pass, at last check it was $3, and fish your heart out.  The state park stocks the river with trout from the hatchery at the end of the park every night.  The limit was 5 trout and they are mighty good eating.  Roaring river is about 5 miles from Eagle Rock landing on tablerock.  If you like to fly fish, you will not find a better place in which to practice the fine art. Let me know if you wand any further info on Roaring River. IF you still want to go to table rock you will find great coves with plenty of dead cover.  That is, plenty of trees and stumps.  The bass are thick as theives.  If you go down by the dam the water is about 150 feet deep.  This is good fishing.  The water gets pretty warm in the summer. So the fish tend to run deep in the daytime. I hope you have luck.  If you need any further recomendations please let me know.  This is where I spent my summers for years. Deon Smith

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: In a couple of weeks, I will be taking a trip for a couple days of fishing : on Dale Hollow then a couple of days at Table Rock.  I have never been on : either one of them.  Anyone have any advice on how to fish and what to : use.  Any ideas would be appreciated. I fished the B.A.S.S. Missouri Invitational on Table Rock a few weeks back and I love the lake. If you haven’t booked a place to stay yet I stayed at a place called the Lighthouse Lodge in Kimberling City. A guy named Dave owns it and I really liked him. He is a fair source for where the fish are too. And no I don’t get no kick back or anything else from him. Although I haven’t fished Dale Hollow I was up there this spring to look around and it LOOKED a bit like Table Rock. Judgement based on standing no shore and looking at the lake. So take it for what its worth. Back to Table Rock. Best pattern I saw was fishing CEDAR trees. I could catch nice fish by dragging a lure through the tree and coming in contact with the tree. Stopping right after it hits and I would get bit. This was in varying depths of water. Could be as little as 8 feet and as much as 40. One guys method was to crank a stick bait down into the tops of trees in DEEP water and let it sit there. Move it a bit and let it sit again. It was too slow a pattern for me. Another good lure/method was to through light line with no weight and a Zoom minnow imitation to the tops of trees and let it sink. Twitching once in a while. This was a killer combination IF you had the right color. Color was key here. Just keep trying colors till they start tearing your arms off. Next was gravel points. Look for pea gravel on points and I used jerk baits. This was my best pattern. Both lakes are extremely clear water so long casts are a must. And remember that conditions change and what was working last month may not this month. Oh and when we were there the fish were spawning. Many people caught limits by sight fishing beds. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

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Question:

Last year in Sept, I really enjoyed the LaMar and Soda Butte Creek. Sept in the Park is absolutely the best.

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Last year in Sept, I really enjoyed the LaMar and Soda Butte Creek. Sept in the Park is absolutely the best.

Hi Gary I sure agree and after the first frost the mosquitoes are not the problem they can be earlier in the year. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

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Will be in Yellowstone area around 13-16th September and enjoy fishing in the Park.  Any suggestions for that time of year within the Park itself (other than to carry bear spray and to stay clear of the rutting elk)? Please no plugs for local area private ranches.  Public waters, especially those in the Park have always seemed a little like "mine" and I prefer them. Thanks. J. Rice

Hi J., I’m replying from Europe so my advice is not a local one. But I’ve been in Y. park last september and I tried some rivers. I tried Slough creek: Pretty good, even if you stay on the lower meadow (between campground and lamar river) Big cutthroats on nymph sightcasting. Trout Lake: Full of cutthroats you can easily catch on dry (try small chironomid emergers) and some big rainbows along the bank at sight on nymph Yellowstone River: I didn’t too much enjoy fishing there because water was high due to heavy rains and snow (around 09/15) Channel between Shoshone and Lewis Lake: I went there to catch some big trout going down from shoshone lake to spawn, and that’s what i did. My biggest fish caught in the park was there. Streamers (around 09/20) Madison: I didn’t catch a lot of fish when i tried after Earthquake lake. Water was high and fish was inactive. Down there the river is quite wild in some places and it’s tough to fish. Between the park border and the firehole, the madison is not that riffled but fish  was inactive too. Hebgen Lake: I tried the "gulpers" around 5th of september. Fair hatches so fishing was tough. Firehole river: Water was gin clear, fishes were tough, but what a beautiful river. Each fish caught needed a delicate approach and some technical experience but I enjoyed it. Fishing there was great and that’s why I’ll be bach there in september ‘97. Some advices: – Pay attention to road constructions at this time of the year. It could be hard to go where you want to. – Make your reservations soon enough, a lot of the accomodities is closed at the beginning of september. – Be prepared for every kind of weather. – Tye some small flies (18-22) Tricos, black caddis and buzzers. I didn’t have great succes with terrestrials, due to the weather. If somebody has any advice which differs from mine, i’d be glad to hear it too for my own trip. Bernard Ps: A report of this trip is under construction on my flyfishing club’s web site at http://www.infonie.com/public_html/rccb/index.htm

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Will be in Yellowstone area around 13-16th September and enjoy fishing in the Park.  Any suggestions for that time of year within the Park itself (other than to carry bear spray and to stay clear of the rutting elk)? Please no plugs for local area private ranches.  Public waters, especially those in the Park have always seemed a little like "mine" and I prefer them. Thanks. J. Rice

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Question:

Please don’t feed the this monster of a thread.  Mr. Wieser is just waiting to pounce.  Check out his page, wage legal war with him via. e-mail, but please, we beg of you, don’t get him started on r.b.p… – Bill Herring – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.  

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

I must rise in protest! While it no doubt happens on rare occasion, I have NEVER seen a boater trash a shoreline ( I do not regard foot and butt prints as "trashing", and that’s about all we might leave behind)

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Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline

I don’t any who trash the shoreline, matter of fact most I know stay in their boats.  When I talked to a Ranger down on the Ark last year, he said boaters were pretty good, almost all the trash he picked up was fishing trash.  Since this issue came up, I’ve checked places like Sunshine in the Royal Gorge, the scouts and put-in at Gore, and other high traffic areas everytime I’m there, and there has never been anything in the way of trash. Matter of fact I challenge you or anyone to show me a place that is dominated by boaters, and is trashed out (at least in Colorado). –Chris

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While land owners may own the land and riparian rights to the waters bottom, they do not in fact, own the water itself and I’m almost positive that any river can be "navigated" through private property.  It would certainly be nice to have the owners permission to avoid any misunderstandings and asking in advance could only help relations between the land owner and boaters.  Regardless of the legal issue here, I think I’d be inclined to opt for not trespassing if that’s what the land owner wished.  I can imagine if there was a pristine river running across my land I’d not want a bunch of canoes and kayaks traversing it every day. Many boaters have a bad habit of trashing the shoreline and than loudly proclaiming their rights to continue to navigate.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

Yesssss!  And SET the hook!  Now, let the little bugger run till he tires and reel him in… Sorry, you are quite wrong.  Floating through private property in Colorado without the permission of the landowner is a criminal trespass.  Just because people get away with it doesn’t make it legal. You might want to check out my website for a discussion of this issue. http://spot.Colorado.EDU/~weisers I guess it’s time for yet another round of this ongoing discussion.   Let the games begin! — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?

Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 —

Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly.

Tom Visnius had a nice take on this issue as part of a story about a high-water descent of the Pigeon River Dries (NC).  The story was printed first in Messing About, the newsletter of the Western Carolina Paddlers.  Tom has since placed it in his homepage.  Read it at http:\www.cs.unca.edu/~johnsonk/club/pigeon.html. — Chris The relevant passage (by Tom Visnius): Phil and I were the only kayakers hanging out at the campground for a little while. As we waited, I asked a fly-fisherman about an etiquette issue that had been bothering me since my trip down Cataloochee Creek. On creeks in the Park, there’s not a lot of room for both hunter and boater, so it is crucial to communicate to each other how you would like to commingle. Does a boater give the fisher a wide berth, thereby floating directly over the trout that he has been sneaking up on? Or does a boater float right next to the fisher’s knees and risk an assault from a surprised sportsman? This result is not unlikely, so regardless of your right-of-way philosophy, it is worth noting that there are many fishermen who visit Smoky Mountain National Park, and boaters should attempt to communicate with them. Then proceed with caution. The fellow I talked to preferred the idea of boaters paddling close to him so as not to spook the trout.

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I fished alot on the Arkansas and Animas river in Colorado.  The Animas is big enough that if your standing a few feet from one shore the rafter can go to the other side.  Most of the time I am nymphing fairly close to where I’m standing.  In the Arkansas case, its a little narrower and sometimes, if I notice them soon enough, I will step out of the water and let the kyaker or rafter float right over, or better yet to the shore side, of where I was standing. They are usually very willing to remove their feet and oars from the water as they pass by.  Most of them are quite willing to accomodate my directions if the water depth is OK. But you run into jerks in any endeavor. I wouldn’t let it ruin my day.   When it does happen I do get a little agitated and probably verbalize it but I try not to let it linger. Bill A.

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People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.

I resemble…I mean resent that remark…. –Chris

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks. — Richard Culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return."         — Kimosippi ‘95 — Paddlers usually aren’t trespassing along stream banks!!!  They are merely in transit from the put-in to the take-out!! terry dq

Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received.

So sorry, I’ll try to interject more often, it certainly spices things up doesn’t it. Like I said, civil is as civil does. I just cast, if you happen to be in the way, too damned bad, you had plenty of time to see where I was fishing and avoid it, or at least do the polite thing and pass quietly behind me so as not to put the fish down for a half hour by your antics. If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.   — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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. . . what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette? Well, we’re both very polite to each other while we trespass along stream banks.

Er, actually, you are probably trespassing when you are *in* the river, boaters and fisherpersons alike, unless you are on Forest Service land or other public land. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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Scott Weiser Wrote Irrelevant. If you float through private property without permission, you are trespassing.  There are only two navigable waters in Colorado, and the Cache La Poudre is not one of them.

That is absolutely untrue.  That river gets "navigated" every year by hundreds if not thousands of people.  Stating that boaters are trespassing is like saying the folks who walk down the sidewalk in your front yard are trespassing–blatantly false.  Actually they probably cross the street in front of your house to avoid the possibility of armed conflict with a maniac.   tdq

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: DirecPC   Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: host-37.customer.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Hi everyone, This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections? Any help/comments appreciated!  Thanks for reading this. Mike Stephens

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment. Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

I, fortunately, have had better experiences than this, being both a fisherman and a paddler on a river at different times. I think most fishermen & paddlers can peacefully co-exist most of the time. The biggest thing paddlers have to remember is that fish like to hang out in eddies also. Fortunately though, most good paddling areas are too strong to fish effectively. Paddle On… -Tom McIntire

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?  

(snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser

I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em! – Bill Herring "Can’t we just all get along?" – Rodney King

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Can anyone tell me if they are happy with Nautiraid? I am thinking of a folding boat purchase but have not heard much about Nautiraid.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   (snip) It sucks. If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range. Scott Weiser I see the hugely entertaining Mr. Wieser has once again blessed our humble piece of bandwidth with his presence. The above sounds like a great idea.  Someone is rude or comes too close, so you try to put a hook in them.  A very civil solution.  Or you could just "shoot to wound".  That’ll teach ‘em!

Hey, *some* people are so dense they require operant conditioning and aversion therapy to get the message. Civil is as civil does. — Regards, Scott Weiser ****** "I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend upon my friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" ****** The opinions expressed are my own.  If I were a lawyer, you’d be paying big bucks for this.  All complaints should be Copyright 1996 by Scott Weiser All rights of reproduction or distribution are retained by the author. PGP 2.62 public key fingerprint: A6 BD 79 21 A4 24 7B 10  F1 4C 2E BF D1 40 2A 0A

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What is a #10 Wooly Bugger?  Sounds like what my brother’s girlfriend used to call his… Whoops!  Sorry, gotta get back to work… Ed

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers! My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

My thoughts exactly!  I’ve  had similar problems lately on the small river I fish in southwestern Michigan.  It’s quite popular with tubers.   Right now, the window of opportunity for a flyfisherman is limited to approx. a half hour to an hour before dark.  I was out on Sunday and didn’t see a soul until just before dark.  Guess what?  I didn’t see any other fisherman but two separate groups of tubers floated by just as the fish were getting active.  While on the of the tubers was courteous enough to ask where I was fishing, his partner ignored me and floated right over a rising fish.  Then, the second group floated by a few minutes later and showed no consideration whatsoever.  There’s no way they could have finished their float trip by dark.  They have all damn day to float yet they choose to recreate at dusk showing no respect for anyone else.  It puts evil thoughts in your mind.  Of course, the obligatory floatilla of bobbing beer cans followed in close pursuit. BFisher

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!

My personal opinion is that you should discreetly suggest that they move on…try a subtle suggestion… "GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DRIFT YOU YUPPIE BASTARD OR I’LL CREASE YOUR NOODLE" (Stolen without permission from "Fear of Flyfishing"). TimW (Only kidding, violence is not a good suggestion…now, letting the air out of the tires of their shuttle vehicle, THAT can be VERY effective and satisfying).

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(snip) If I were fishing and someone pulled this on me, I’d tie on a #10 weighted Wooly Bugger on 15 lb. test tippet and thwack them smartly on the head.  With any luck, I’d even snag an expensive Goretex jacket and rip a great big hole in it, and maybe them. In fact, I did manage to puncture a polycheapo raft with a drunken lout in it on the Rogue River a couple of weeks ago who did exactly that. When I’m fishing, you’d better be polite, or stay out of range.

Scott, Do us all a big favor and go crawl back under the rock you’ve been hiding under (or was that bloated mass you were cowering under your mother?). Your recent absence from this newsgroup has been wonderful. If you really were stupid enough to cast toward and snag someone (and from your posts, it seems likely you are), you would be entirely deserving of the beating your pathetic corpse received. Regards, Andy The opinions expressed above are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this on the fly-fishing site and pass it on for comment.  Obviously, the people who slammed his fishing spot were jerks but what’s concensus for fisher-paddler etiquette?   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly This weekend I had some bad experiences with kayakers while fishing the Cache La Poudre River in Colorado.  The river was full of kayakers and whitewater rafters.  To my surprise, the whitewater rafters were usually pretty courteous when passing my way (going well away from where I was fishing and coasting by as quietly as possible), but the kayakers were another story – they’d cruise by close to me, splashing each other, talking loudly – one group of four kayakers even stopped in the section I was fishing to perform maneuvers!   I understand that the river is for everyone, and because of that I don’t cast when kayakers are around.  But I’d like to think they could show the same type of courtesy by moving through the area slowly and quietly. I guess the easy solution to my problem is to find a section of the river that is kayaker/rafter free.  Does anyone know of any such section of the Poudre?  How about flyfishing only sections and/or catch and release sections?

I kayak sections of the Poudre below the Narrows regularly.  The water has indeed come down enough so that fishermen (and women) are starting to appear on sections that boaters use.  Earlier in the season, these sections are not really fishable, and much of it still cannot be waded. Commercial rafters on the Poudre usually don’t conflict with fisherpeople because they don’t eddy out very often.  They sail on by _everything_, and to give their customers the most exciting ride, they tend to look for the fastest current and the biggest waves, which will take them away from fisherpeople.  This search for excitement, however, sometimes causes inexperienced guides to flip rafts on otherwise inoccuous sections of the river, and they have been known to literally run over kayakers.  We generally sit in the eddies as they go by because of this. Reasonable kayakers usually stay away from fisherpeople.  The river, after all, is to be shared, and most kayakers do their playing in territory which is not very good for fishing.  Several possiblities for conflict on the Poudre do arise, however: 1.  The Filter Plant run has good holding and wading water and is quite     fishable.  Novice kayakers still use it, though, and they may not     yet be properly "socialized." 2.  The well-known pop-up hole on the Bridges run has an eddy immediately     below it where kayakers wait their turn to attempt enders.  I have     heard that a couple of fishermen have decided that they need to fish     that particular eddy, and they will attempt to drive kayakers away.     Sometimes they will appear when kayakers are there and demand that     they leave.  I have not personally observed this behavior. 3.  I encountered a fisherman at the bottom of PineView Falls who was     casting into an eddy on the far side of the river.  The area is not     wadeable, although the eddy may have held some fish.  The river is     narrow at that point, so the cast was easy, but the presence of his     line all the way across the river created a problem for any kayak or     raft running PineView. Other possibilities for conflict exist anywhere there is an eddy.  By the way, when communicating with fisherpeople, kayakers should be aware that they may refer to an eddy as a "hole," a term which has a different meaning for us! As for good fishing, a couple of places come to mind.  As I mentioned, much of the Filter Plant run is pretty good, and has reduced kayak traffic when the water is low.  Keep #1 above in mind, however.  What traffic there is may be irritating because they don’t know any better. The section above the low bridge below Rustic is rumored to be excellent trout water, and the flatwater curves below the fish hatchery (the Indian Meadows area) are well-known for providing excellent fishing. Indian Meadows is wild trout water, with special restrictions on what you can keep.  No problem for catch-and-release. The Big South fork has some nice fishing water about half a mile from the highway.  People kayak the Big South occasionally, but they have keepers who take them back to the Home directly from the takeout so that they won’t be a danger to society.      John Cooley

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Question:

Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

I have been out twice this season with no trout to show. Any hotspots in southwest Pa.? Any stream tactics etc? Any hot baits, lures. I usually use mealworms and waxworms. Thanks Jeff

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

Ron, In terms of artifical lures, there are a wide variety which I have has success with. THese include Rooster Tails, the Mepps line and Silver fox.  I have found that in muddy water a nice shiny lure that is cast upstream and allowed to drift downstream and bounced along the bottom of the river and then slowly reeled in can be quite effective. I first learned this when I was a kid.  What a sight.  Twenty people fishing this stretch of stream and no one catching anything, except me a fifteen year old.  I was using a small (size 0 or 1) silver fox spinner. Hope this helps, Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

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try cheese, american works the best

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

I’ve fished for trout a lot. The best I’ve found is salmon eggs laid on the bottom. (Red Balls of Fire) I’ve also used spinners successfully in lakes. Eggs work the best in streams.  I also sometimes get a bobber, attach a hook with eggs to a leader, and float the hooks into waterfalls or calm areas. I always catch something. KM  NM

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

My favorite method for catching trout is fly fishing.  The advantages include a wide variety of ‘bait’…  if they won’t bite on one fly you just try another.  Watching for the bugs that are hatching while you are fishing gives you some idea of what type of fly to use that day. The act of fly fishing is a great relaxer to me…  the casting motions, the need to really watch your fly for strikes, the satisfaction of catching fish on a fly you’ve tied yourself… Time to go.  Gotta catch some brookies.                     /                /  /__/    JourneysNorth’s Original Gary K. Foote /  /     / Mt.Washington Valley Guide Activities, Lodging, Dining, Attractions, Events, More_____ P.O. Box 3214, North Conway, New Hampshire 03860 (603)356-7111

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Question:

Just returned from the West Branch of the Ausable.  Your best bet is to stop in at Fran Better’s fly shop on Rt. 86 in Wilmington.  Last weekend he recommended a gray haystack dun and emerger as well as a Picket Finn.   Fishing was slow, but I managed to land a brookie and a few browns on those flies, which imitate the Isonychia.  Also saw lots of BWOs and both rusty and sulphur spinners in the evening.  Most of the action took place in the afternoon.

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I am looking for patterns to use on the Au sable river in NY state.   Any ideas, both dry and nymphs.  thanks. Luc Nocente — Luc Nocente

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