Question:

<snip Nice report, Roger. I watched a UK fishing show about a guy who rented and floated a large river in Sweden on a raft. He fished for whitefish and trout. Ever heard of this? — Gary M

Response:

Nice report, Roger. Keep catching those big, fat grayling, and keep the reports coming. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Hi! Had planned to stop working 2 pm. As usual something came up and I wasn’t on my way until 4 pm. Driving the 85 km to my intended fishing spot downstream the Village of Myrheden, I passed a local thunderstorm headed for the coast. However, on arrival at the river the weather was sunny and approx 23 degrees Celsius. River Byske is one of Swedens most famous salmon rivers, but also hold grayling and trout. Earlier in the history of the river it was used to float timber to the coast. As a consequence there were long arms of stone built to concentrate the flow of water to a smaller area and as such deepening the river. Listening to my grandfather talk about the fishing in these days it is obvious that fish benefitted from the timber floating. A huge amount of timber in the first half of the summer meant an enormous food supply for the fish as a variety of insects fell into the water with the timber. Grayling up to lb 4 were caught every summer and brown trout up to lb 10. Today the care takers of this fishing area has started to restore the river to its "natural" state by digging these stone arms back into the river using excavators. Fish biologists have pointed out that this work must be done so that alternating deeper and shallower parts of the river are created (obvious) but the care takers look at money first and as a consequence the cheapest contractor gets the job. What happens? Well, this contractor often knows nothing about restoring the river bed and the result is just as often dissapointing. The tragic part of all this is that the restorations are made with the salmon’s best interest in mind. So in failing improvements for salmon, which after all are migratory fish, the care takers have failed catastrophically with the stationary fish which is only a remnant of what it once was. Enough of this crap, back to the report. Since this was the first trip, this year, to this area, I went straight for the hot spots that have emerged during 26 years of fly fishing in this river. There’s a square meter of the river that every year gets my first attention and this year was no different. Kind of silly isn’t it? to go to the exact same spot year after year, especially since the river is something like 150 km long. But to me it’s like visiting an old friend and being there makes me content if nothing else. The first thing I noticed was that the river was low, more so than usual this time of year. The second was that, probably due to a surprisingly early summer with above average temperatures for over three weeks in a row, the insect life was in full activity. There were two different mayflies swarming and also a number of caddis flies with a medium sized grey variant in majority. One of the mayfly species (don’t know its latin name) was a bright yellow and fairly large mayfly, these mayflies, with the grace of a butterfly, are beautiful to watch. To reach the spot I had to do some wading and whilst doing so I saw a rise just where I had expected it to be. It looked like a fairly large grayling. The spot is located on the neck of a stream with an underwater rock just upstream. By this time my expectations were high and my first cast a bit short in the eager to reach the fish. The second cast I hooked a 15.5 inch grayling weighing slightly below lb1.5 . I usually catch one fish for eating, but this one was too big so I released it. All in all I caught 18 grayling and kept two for breakfast, one for me and one for my 80 year old grandfather who still fly fish but due to a bad knee mostly in lakes. I fished until 4 am with a short break for cooking coffee at midnight. As always this time of the year the presence of the sun was visible as a redish light in the horizon even at 1 am. End of story. P.S. I just got off the phone as a friend of mine called to tell me about a visit to a small river "Mal

Question:

Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby.

Is Ted Turner one of them? I understand his ranch is on the Ruby. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’m not sure. The ranch owners are "non-native Montanans" with big $$, and, apparently, being instigated and led by a guy named Reid Rosenthal, who (if I have the story correct) has been trying to get it turned to private access. He’s gone as far as stirring up the Madison county commissioners, saying that a (any?) bridge over the Ruby, even though the road on both sides is public county road, is NOT public and therefore there is no legal access to the river at that point. As I understand it, he was ’shot down in flames’. My explanation listed above is a ’simplistic’ overview of the situation. I’m sure there are other aspects I don’t know. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. Is Ted Turner one of them? I understand his ranch is on the Ruby. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

early/mid 1980’s … Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby.

As explained to me, a landowner/angler conflict on one of the Yellowstone River spring creeks and a landowner/raft conflict on another river (NW section of Montana) (the landowner drove his rig over a group’s beached raft) during the 70’s/80’s motivated passage of Montana’s stream access law sometime in the early 1980’s. I attended Montana State from 81-88, and recall when the law went into effect as many of the streams I had been fishing with permission the prior year or two were suddendly closed in protest.  Signs reading "don’t bother to ask, NO" popped up all over Montana. My roommates and I simply filled our vests with Stream Access brochures and hit the road.  We were shot over (30-06) on Bridger Creek NW of Bozeman before the landowner called the Sheriff and tried to have us arrested. The event caused the Sheriff’s department to met with other state agencies and get clarity on the finer points of the new law.  Three days after the event, a deputy offered to fish Bridger Creek by the rules to see if he would he harassed, and Fish & Game wanted feedback on whether we were harassed again, since they were willing to take action against the landowner. Key point was that we climbed over the landowners barbed wire fence at the point where it was attached to the bridge, but it is illegal for landowners to attach their fences to public structures (the bridge) and it is illegal for landowners to deny passage over public right-of-ways, and most bridges have a substantial right-of-way area just up and downstream of the road. The state generally does not enforce the rules as a matter of convenience to the landowner, but landowners can’t use such configurations to keep the public out. Several weeks later, we accessed another portion of Bridger Creek from the road (public access), but immediately had to hike out of the flood plain to get around a man-made diversion dam. The landowner saw us and a toe-to-toe threat-fest began.  Ultimately it was his wife yelling from the pickup "let’s go honey" that broke up the moment, but the technical point here was that man-made structures *in* the stream cannot be used to deny passage up and down a stream, and the public is entitled to portage around such structures within reason, even if it means going outside the high water mark. Then there was Dry Creek… Then there was Sixteen Mile Creek… Though I believe in the public access, and am willing to force the issue, I have always tried to ask anyway, as a courtesy.  They can get a sense of who I am, let me know of any issues they are having with other anglers, and hopefully both of us can relax. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

Go visit him yourself. You’ve got time to travel. Bog, man, you’re not even a hundred yet. "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

It’s amazing to me how the brain remembers things. The controversy and debate over stream access went on for a long time and was not passed till 1985. I had it in my head it was way before that. Oh, well… when you’re wrong, you’re wrong. And I was beginning to guide then too. I think I need to upgrade and add more ‘memory’ !! — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – early/mid 1980’s … Montana Stream Access Law. Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. As explained to me, a landowner/angler conflict on one of the Yellowstone River spring creeks and a landowner/raft conflict on another river (NW section of Montana) (the landowner drove his rig over a group’s beached raft) during the 70’s/80’s motivated passage of Montana’s stream access law sometime in the early 1980’s. I attended Montana State from 81-88, and recall when the law went into effect as many of the streams I had been fishing with permission the prior year or two were suddendly closed in protest.  Signs reading "don’t bother to ask, NO" popped up all over Montana. My roommates and I simply filled our vests with Stream Access brochures and hit the road.  We were shot over (30-06) on Bridger Creek NW of Bozeman before the landowner called the Sheriff and tried to have us arrested. The event caused the Sheriff’s department to met with other state agencies and get clarity on the finer points of the new law.  Three days after the event, a deputy offered to fish Bridger Creek by the rules to see if he would he harassed, and Fish & Game wanted feedback on whether we were harassed again, since they were willing to take action against the landowner. Key point was that we climbed over the landowners barbed wire fence at the point where it was attached to the bridge, but it is illegal for landowners to attach their fences to public structures (the bridge) and it is illegal for landowners to deny passage over public right-of-ways, and most bridges have a substantial right-of-way area just up and downstream of the road. The state generally does not enforce the rules as a matter of convenience to the landowner, but landowners can’t use such configurations to keep the public out. Several weeks later, we accessed another portion of Bridger Creek from the road (public access), but immediately had to hike out of the flood plain to get around a man-made diversion dam. The landowner saw us and a toe-to-toe threat-fest began.  Ultimately it was his wife yelling from the pickup "let’s go honey" that broke up the moment, but the technical point here was that man-made structures *in* the stream cannot be used to deny passage up and down a stream, and the public is entitled to portage around such structures within reason, even if it means going outside the high water mark. Then there was Dry Creek… Then there was Sixteen Mile Creek… Though I believe in the public access, and am willing to force the issue, I have always tried to ask anyway, as a courtesy.  They can get a sense of who I am, let me know of any issues they are having with other anglers, and hopefully both of us can relax. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams.

I live in PDX. Couldja track down the names of those clubs? Thanks!

Response:

<snipped Steve, No the problem is that I have a right to fish that river, because there is a publicly available entrance to that river.  I am not trespassing on the land; I am traveling along the riverbank between the high and low water mark. There was never any No Trespassing Signs, No Hunting, and No Fishing until Troubums2 made the arrangements with the landowner. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

United States Penitentiary, Atlanta, Georgia; 1974.

My arrest/control class, Lakewood, CO, 1999. And then again last week when my pepper canister sprung a leak and I got soaked with 90 minutes left in my shift. I carry my OC on the front, and some of it soaked through my pants and hit, um, some sensitive skin. That SUCKED!!!!! It was worse than drinking Coors while listening to teenage boy bands and eating day-old Original Hamburger Stand chili dogs! Mike, who prefers to solve problems with bullshit instead of pepper spray-some of it might splash back on me. "Goddamn, well I declare! Have you seen the like?Their walls are  built from  cannonballs; their motto is ‘don’t tread on me’" -Uncle Jerry

Response:

….Mike….prefers to solve problems with bullshit instead of pepper spray-some of it might splash back on me.

Considering some of the bullshit that sprays back on one here I suggest you might not want to be too hasty about that decision.    :) Wolfgang SPLAT!

Response:

blackcat, Why don’t you post the name of the fly shop as "off limits" to repay them? Ernie "blackcat" wrote Willi, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is a section on the Upper Provo in Utah above Jordanelle Reservoir that has signs posted No Trespassing, No Fishing, and No Hunting. One of the local fly shops made a deal with the landowner and they posted all those signs last year. It’s too bad.  It is a really nice stretch of water to fish and I’ll miss it. bc.

Response:

… "private" areas for a local shop … wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing?

In recent years, several fly shops in Oregon have aggressively gone after special arrangements with land owners.  In most of the cases I’m aware of, the landowner has historically permitted limited access but is stressed/tired of it and is generally happy when someone else offers to control the access in exchange for some money. In addition to fly shops, Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams. I am also aware of rural landowners whos cattle and/or timber based income has dropped, so they are turning to selling hunting and fishing access. The lower section of one stream I regularily fish has an awsome run of chinook salmon, and ~25 individuals from mostly California (I only know of one from Oregon) have been paying $25,000 per year for exclusive access.  Though $1,000 isn’t for a regular weekend warrior, for the Joe who gets out 1-week a year and wants to be assured of a wiggle on the end of their rod, not unreasonable. Thomas Gilg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I’ve paid more than that to have my rod wiggled for a week……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … "private" areas for a local shop … wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing? In recent years, several fly shops in Oregon have aggressively gone after special arrangements with land owners.  In most of the cases I’m aware of, the landowner has historically permitted limited access but is stressed/tired of it and is generally happy when someone else offers to control the access in exchange for some money. In addition to fly shops, Oregon also has some active private angling clubs that have acquired access rights.  I forget the name of the one group (bait/spinners/flies), but they have locked down several prime sections of Oregon’s coastal streams. I am also aware of rural landowners whos cattle and/or timber based income has dropped, so they are turning to selling hunting and fishing access. The lower section of one stream I regularily fish has an awsome run of chinook salmon, and ~25 individuals from mostly California (I only know of one from Oregon) have been paying $25,000 per year for exclusive access.  Though $1,000 isn’t for a regular weekend warrior, for the Joe who gets out 1-week a year and wants to be assured of a wiggle on the end of their rod, not unreasonable. Thomas Gilg

Response:

We have a little different deal going on here in Texas which has always had very little public water other than hugh lakes. The Great Texas Bass Club has about a hundred tanks on private ranches and farms leased which members can use for prices varying from 20 to 40 bucks for from 1/2 to full day. This was water that was never available to us before. There is a hell of a lot of good fishing on these places. On most of these places a float tube or small boat with an electric motor or canoe does just great. This could wrok well in other areas and is one of those things where everyone wins. Big Dale

Response:

<snipped There is plenty of land posted No Hunting – No Fishing.  This section though has the Utah State Special Fishing Regulations Signs up along that section and it was only recently that the No Hunting, No Fishing, No Trespassing signs were posted. It has been almost a year since I was last up there. And in Utah, the land owners own the river bottom, so even wading it, you are breaking the law. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

<snipped Ernie, If I knew with out a doubt that it was the fly shop everyone has told me it was, I would post their name.  I just sent them an email asking them if they were the shop that guided that stretch of the Provo.   bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Hmmm. So the gist of Ernie’s (and, by inference, your) opinion is that the fly shop should be castigated for the way they use that (leased) private land, correct? I don’t quite agree with that, nor do I completely disagree. But the "problem" is really that the land is private in the first place, isn’t it? –Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, If I knew with out a doubt that it was the fly shop everyone has told me it was, I would post their name.  I just sent them an email asking them if they were the shop that guided that stretch of the Provo.

Response:

Hmmm. So the gist of Ernie’s (and, by inference, your) opinion is that the fly shop should be castigated for the way they use that (leased) private land, correct? I don’t quite agree with that, nor do I completely disagree. But the "problem" is really that the land is private in the first place, isn’t it?

Our perceptions are greatly influenced by the familiar.  Having grown up with public ownership of riparian rights in Wisconsin, I find the notion that an individual, a club, or a corporation can own a stream bottom or even the right to float on top of it to be bizarre.  Of course, my feelings on this issue are also colored by ambivalence concerning the private ownership of land in general, and that fact that I have never owned any real estate myself.  And then the whole thing is further complicated by the old state’s rights versus central governmental control conundrum.  It’s easy enough to be skeptical about the wisdom, let alone the effectiveness, of federal control of resources nation wide, but I sometimes think that a single set of coherent policies would at least be easier to grapple with than the bewildering array of laws and rationales we have to contend with today. Wolfgang in the market for an underutilized planet

Response:

Wolfgang in the market for an underutilized planet

tanstaafl wulfie! i’ve got 22 adjoining lunacres fer sale. kinda dry fishin’ but gahdangitall, you can double haul 600′ !!! <g waldo, have space suit, will travel.

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

Now there’s a candidate I could support… — Charlie…

Response:

Well, if the price is right, maybe we can talk. Wolfgang tell Mike I said hello

have yer guy call my guy to set up lunch. uhmmmm, mikey doesn’t "live" here anymore. afterall, the moon is a harsh mistress. waldo

Response:

And in Utah, the land owners own the river bottom, so even wading it, you are breaking the law.

Really? Other than some of the early US states back east, most/all of the states from the mid-west to the west were created by the federal government and given land "in the public trust". The state’s trustees (i.e. governor and legislature) were then obligated to, among other things, determine which waters had commercial uses (includes navigation, but is not limited to), and as a state *maintain public access* to such waters. Very few states followed through on this matter at statehood time, and those states that still have not done it are still obligated to. While states can drag their feet on this obligation, they cannot bypass it and relinquish public access potentials to private concerns. I was told that Washington is an example of a state that did their required homework at statehood time. Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law. Oregon is an example of a state that is finally getting around to it, with the Division of State Land accepting petitions from the public on what rivers to study first.  Within all of Oregon, only 13 river segments (e.g. Willamette up to Harrisburg, but not above) had been previously studied and formally declared public by the state of Oregon. The Association of Northwest Steelheaders has been leading a coalition of angling groups, including the Oregon Council of the FFF, to keep the ball rolling and to fight bills in the state legislature which have attempted to privatize many waters in the state rather than have to defeat them in a more costly fashion by going to court and bringing up the rock-solid public trust obligation. Regarding landowners "owning the river bottom".  Many older land deeds/titles may claim ownership of the bed and bank, but there is no legal standing for the deeds/titles to make such claims. Most title companies will not write new titles that claim bed/bank ownership since they know it is a false claim.  I know of realtors that likewise know the falsehood of anyone claiming bed/bank ownership, but most realtors do not have the technical/legal expertise or patience to correct the problem. Having said that, let me warn you that many landowners are sticking to the bed/bank claims and are quite willing to enforce it in any means they see fit, and I’ve been in several toe-to-toe battles with landowners where the far wiser option was to move on rather than risk a shotgun blast. A year or two ago in Oregon, and landowner had a bank fisherman arrested for violating his bed/bank ownership. As soon as the trepassing charge started heading to court, the landowner dropped the charges, most likely because he realized that the courts would overturn his claim and the river segment he was on would be studied by the state and no doubt be formally declared public. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Good Info snipped Montana is an example of a state that finally got around to doing it in the early/mid 1980’s, and most of us now know it as the Montana Stream Access Law.

Actually early 70’s. It is being challenged in court right now by some big ranchers in the Ruby. More good stuff snipped Regarding landowners "owning the river bottom".  Many older land deeds/titles may claim ownership of the bed and bank, but there is no legal standing for the deeds/titles to make such claims. Most title companies will not write new titles that claim bed/bank ownership since they know it is a false claim. I know of realtors that likewise know the falsehood of anyone claiming bed/bank ownership, but most realtors do not have the technical/legal expertise or patience to correct the problem.

Yes, to a point. I’ve seen it here where deeds are written and plats drawn and recorded that show a private property boundary to the LOW water mark of a river (or lake) yet the state says that anything between the HIGH water mark is ‘public domain’. Go figure. I also know of some folks who pay property taxes on a large river bed of which they own both sides. Sometimes, it is so confusing, you don’t know who to believe. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

For more details on stream access, read:      http://www.oregonlive.com/news/99/03/st032107.html Note the comment regarding 38 other states. Thomas Gilg

Response:

I was talking with Charlie W. the other day about the difficulties in getting access to fishing on private land or access to go through private land to get to public areas to fish. Not that long ago, 10 years or so, it was fairly easy to get access from ranchers as long you approached them in a courteous manner. Charlie’s answer was that this is because the fly shops have approached every rancher with river, stream and lake access and offered them money for a lease. The result is that the ranchers that used to allow fishing access, still do but only to people paying money to the fly shops. At the time, I wasn’t too sure of his explanation. However, as I thought more about it, I realized that a number of areas where I used to get access are now "private" areas for a local shop. I know there are other factors contributing to this, but I was wondering if this is a trend around the Country or is it a Colorado thing? Willi

Response:

It is a trend around the world. As soon as a demand for such areas becomes apparent, and the owners realise that there is money to be made from them, commercial enterprise moves in. "Exclusivity" in this case is a valuable commodity. Also, many owners have been disappointed or upset, by people who have misused their generosity in the past, which does not make them kindly predisposed to allowing others access. This unfortunate trend may be observed practically everywhere. It appears to be one of the  symptoms of capitalist society in general.  Recreation is rapidly becoming one of the greatest single earning "industries", and the effects of this will inevitably continue with probably very far-reaching results. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing. Jack Shaw will be missed on the Kamloops Lakes. A true gentleman who taught several generations to cast, tie, and fish a fly. He made us "aware" of what was happening on and under the surface of the lake. He’ll be missed but not forgotten! Don

_______  If heaven is Catch and Release, Catch one for me Jack Shaw. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Jack Shaw will be missed on the Kamloops Lakes. A true gentleman who taught several generations to cast, tie, and fish a fly. He made us "aware" of what was happening on and under the surface of the lake. He’ll be missed but not forgotten! Don

Response:

That was my boyhood hero Ted Peck. Host of "Tide and Trials" plus a Sunday night radio, outdoors talk show and a successful salmon charter business. Ted fell on very hard times – both his son’s were killed in (separate) accidents and he lost his business in the following personal troubles. Since his retirement he has been working at Jaymer’s shop in Port Coquitlam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   He told me his name, but I had forgotten it…

Response:

That’s it Ted Peck at Jaymer’s.  Had forgotten the names but when you reminded me, they clicked right into place.  Thanks for the info. —                                                       -dnc- RalphH wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was my boyhood hero Ted Peck. …

Response:

That’s too bad. I have read Jack Shaw’s books, and benefited greatly from them. I am saddened to hear of his passing. He was, indeed, a legend. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Response:

A few years ago, I was visiting family in Port Coquitlam and my brother-in-law and I happened to go into a fly shop located in a little strip mall in the NE section of town.  We got to talking to an ‘old-timer’ in there who was extremely friendly, showed us how to tie some knots and offered to give us a brief casting lesson…unsolicited of course, we just came in to buy a few flies. My brother-in-law recognized him as a well known personality in Canadian fly fishing (Had a flyfishing TV Show at one time, too, I think).  He told me his name, but I had forgotten it…Jack Shaw seems to ring a bell though.  Think it could have been him?  Little embarrassing to have forgotten his name but I sure remember his gracious manner toward us. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

Legendary BC FF’er Jack Shaw who introduced the concept of ‘imitation’ to the province and single handedly invented chironomid fishing passed away late last week. Shaw, whose formal education never exceeded 7 years of public school, authored 2 books ("Flyfish the Trout Lakes" and "Fly Patterns for Trophy Trout") and numerous magazine articles. He also taught scores of BC anglers to tie flies. Jack was admired for his unpretentious manner and dedication to fly fishing.

Response:

Question:

AA Outfitters (used to be AA Pro Shop I think) used to carry them, had some pretty good prices on mostly cosmetic seconds.  I haven’t bought from them in a couple of years though so I’m not sure if they still do. -jerry http://www.gorp.com/aa_pro/default.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Cote’s Fly Shop in Leicester Ma., sells blems and seconds as well as excellent rods made with them by Ray Cote. Call 508-892-3765 and tell them Jerry Schrader sent you. Jerry Schrader, a pro wedding photog.  http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

The Anglers Workshop, www.anglersworkshop.com, sells blems at a pretty good price too.

Response:

Two good sources for blems are: Jon King at JJ King Flyfishing Co., Alturas, CA Excellent deals, special rates for clubs & associations. Jon King is very honest, very helpful.  I built a 10 foot 9 weight from a two piece blem and his parts/components kit and it turned out to be an excellent salmon/steelhead rod.  I think the prices are $6/foot for four piece blanks and $5/foot for a two piece rod. honest, helpful guy.  He’s a guide in the Phoenix area so he may not answer your email right away if he’s out with a client guiding. The man has a good selection of blems. I bought a bunch of Berkley 4 piece blems for $25 each and turned them into excellent rods.  I got a 4 weight, a 6 weight, and an 8 weight, all 9 feet long.  Plus some other even cheaper blems made by Kunan (?) to practice on. Even these Korean blanks which I bought to play with, fearing to ruin a high end blank, turned into pretty decent 5 wghts. Al Soroka Vancouver, B.C.

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Question:

Early this year I had the opportunity to test Loomis rods I was impressed by the GLX and the GL3. Was seriously considering buying a Loomis until I discovered there guarantee policy. I then tested Sage and Orvis rods. My preference goes to the Sage VPS 7w 9 ft. (medium-fast action). This rod will be used for brook and brown trout, landlocked salmon and bass. My fly fishing is in rivers and lakes with nymphs, streamers, wet flies, bass bugs and dry flies. I am now using a Fenwick HMG 7w 8.6 ft for the same job. For windy conditions, heavy nymphs or for long distance casts this rod is lacks some strength or power. I would like to have your opinions and comments on the Sage VPS rod and/or on the end use.

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Sage says the materials and action of their VPS series are the same as their old RPL rods (although the VPSs are now much cheaper, since they’re no longer "state of the art").  I have a 7wt 9ft RPL for steelhead and a 5wt 8.5ft RPL for trout.  They’re the best rods I’ve ever owned.  Assuming you prefer a medium-fast action–rather than the super fast actions being pushed by makers these days–you couldn’t do better than the VPS.  Have fun with it. JR

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Question:

John, garlic is good for keeping people away, but doesn’t work on mosquitoes. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

     Sorry, but it does work. Smoking does also. Mosquettos like all other blood sucking insects home in on the carbon dioxide animals exhale, humans included. This is a known fact. It is also known that some perfumes including aftershave cause reactions among stinging insects. I suggest you research the subject a bit more. If you buy honey from a bee keeper ask what after shave he uses before working the hives. I’ve had, on occasion to work hives at night, moving them. Besides the usual precautions such as proper smoking of the hive and easy sure movements: tail lights are used for elumination and a weight on the brake pedal is best. Reason-bees cannot see red light. By the way Before I developed an allergy to bee stings I kept bees and would innoculate myself each spring with 3 or 4 stings. Even after the hives were calmed with smoke I never breathed directly on the frames of bees it would agitate them. I never used perfumed soaps or deoderant or aftershave for the same reason.                                                         John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

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My experience with this goes back about 15 years ago, BC (before children).  My best buddy and I were AVID backpackers, taking two one week trips and at least 4 long weekenders a year in the Sierras, mostly between 8,000 and 10,500 elevations. These were all summer and fall trips, and the mosquitos were brutal- the only saving grace was they were so big, you’d either see their lights or hear the landing gear dropping as they came in on you! =8^) But seriously folks…..when we went out for a week at a time, and KNEW we’d never see anyone else that we cared if we offended or not, we would start taking garlic OIL capsules two days before our trip and take them daily with every meal until two days before we came back out into the real world again.  We had little if any problem with mosquitos on these trips, but did carry Cutter’s or OFF with us in the event of an unusually persistent swarm. Believe you me though, YOU WILL REEK all the while it’s in your system…you sweat it out bigtime and that’s why it keeps them off of you.  When we returned and it was washtime for the trail clothes and sleeping bag…they STUNK of garlic something fierce. I think you may need to experiment with how much to use, everybody’s different, but make sure it’s the kind of garlic oil capsules that have the odor..some of them don’t. Larry #:)#

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[snip] Blood sucking varmits are attracted by carbon dioxide, masking your exhalation with garlic does work as does smoking.

CO2 has no odor, but if you eat enough garlic you can smell it on your skin. As for smoking, I expect it’s the odor on your clothes that does it, not your breath. — Charlie…

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An interesting argument John, you state the fact that mosquitoes are attracted by carbon dioxide as if that proved garlic worked and wind up discussing bees.  I think I will just stick to my Cutter’s mosquito repellent.:-) — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, garlic is good for keeping people away, but doesn’t work on mosquitoes. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh      Sorry, but it does work. Smoking does also. Mosquettos like all other blood sucking insects home in on the carbon dioxide animals exhale, humans included. This is a known fact. It is also known that some perfumes including aftershave cause reactions among stinging insects. I suggest you research the subject a bit more. If you buy honey from a bee keeper ask what after shave he uses before working the hives. I’ve had, on occasion to work hives at night, moving them. Besides the usual precautions such as proper smoking of the hive and easy sure movements: tail lights are used for elumination and a weight on the brake pedal is best. Reason-bees cannot see red light. By the way Before I developed an allergy to bee stings I kept bees and would innoculate myself each spring with 3 or 4 stings. Even after the hives were calmed with smoke I never breathed directly on the frames of bees it would agitate them. I never used perfumed soaps or deoderant or aftershave for the same reason.                                                         John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

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writes It is recomended to crunch whole garlic cloves however it must be done at the beginning of a long weekend when your wife or girlfriend or both are out of town.

Hi John, why not start chewing on Thursday, that will guarantee the ladies will be out of town at the weekend. No more snakes I hope?  Regards, — Bill

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An interesting argument John, you state the fact that mosquitoes are attracted by carbon dioxide as if that proved garlic worked and wind up discussing bees.  I think I will just stick to my Cutter’s mosquito repellent.:-) — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh

      Sorry about the digression, it was offered as other little known facts of insect behavior from personal experience. If cutters works for you that is fine. The question was "does garlic work and why". The answers were "yes" and "through masking of cabon dioxide in the breath." . This is also true of noseeums (sand gnats).                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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[snip] Blood sucking varmits are attracted by carbon dioxide, masking your exhalation with garlic does work as does smoking. CO2 has no odor, but if you eat enough garlic you can smell it on your skin. As for smoking, I expect it’s the odor on your clothes that does it, not your breath. — Charlie…

     There is no DETECTED odor (by humans). However the noseeum plague that has recently affected Fl. school yards has prompted studies that concluded "sand ghnates are attracted by carbon dioxide exhalations" a means has been developed whereby a microb emitting carbondioxide is used in traps around school yards to attract and trap the insects. It worked, it was also found that the traps contained mesquitos also, due to the same olfactory stimuli.      It is an asumption on my part that the masking of the breath is the reason garlic or smoking work. It is however a plausable conclusion when if biting insects are bothering me, I light up and they go away as has happened many times as has chewing a few sections of garlic cloves before beginning mowing where I know there are gnats or mesquitos. I’m never bothered and don’t feel like a greased pig.                                                            John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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John, garlic is good for keeping people away, but doesn’t work on mosquitoes. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh      Sorry, but it does work. Smoking does also. Mosquettos like all other blood sucking insects home in on the carbon dioxide animals exhale, humans included.

I am sorry, but I disagree.  If this is the case, Koreans, Greek, and Italians who love garlic will never get bitten by mosquitos or will never get married. Garlic is not a good repelent.  Smoking, on the other hand is a fairly good method of keeping people and mosquitos away.  If you are not a smoker, however, you should stick to good old chemical repelent. Kanghoon Lee

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[deleted] I am sorry, but I disagree.  If this is the case, Koreans, Greek, and Italians who love garlic will never get bitten by mosquitos or will never get married. Garlic is not a good repelent.

[deleted] Ya don’t eat it Kanghoon…you light it on fire and throw it at the little bastards… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] I am sorry, but I disagree.  If this is the case, Koreans, Greek, and Italians who love garlic will never get bitten by mosquitos or will never get married. Garlic is not a good repelent. [deleted] Ya don’t eat it Kanghoon…you light it on fire and throw it at the little bastards… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

You mean, use it just like a stink bomb?  I never thought of that Thanks. Kanghoon

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Anything that deters the moeskeeters must be worth a try — Regards Peter

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -While garlic may well work, anything with  deet works better than any natural repellent etc. deet interfere with the CO2 receptors of the moskeeter’s.

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Do you want Garlic or do you want the best ? While garlic may well work, anything with  deet works better than any natural repellent etc. deet interfere with the CO2 receptors of the moskeeter’s.

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Do you want Garlic or do you want the best ? While garlic may well work, anything with  deet works better than any natural repellent etc. deet interfere with the CO2 receptors of the moskeeter’s.

Its also a known carcinogen. I love the stuff, but if garlic works (and its good for your heart)…. I’ll bite (bad pun)

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It works great for vampires, too.  I’ve been using it for two years now and still haven’t been bitten!! Ed

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It works great for vampires, too.  I’ve been using it for two years now and still haven’t been bitten!!

Ah! but have you been out at night, fishing for sea trout? Bewaaaare! The Vampire Coachman will get you. — Bill

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[snip] Blood sucking varmits are attracted by carbon dioxide, masking your exhalation with garlic does work as does smoking.

Hi All, A friend of mine that lives in BC doesn’t have a problem with mosquitos himself. They bite him and nothing happens?  I guess he is not effected by the anti- coagulants that they inject into you so they can keep the blood flowing. I guess the itchy bumps that we get are a reaction to the anti-coagulants? I like to stop in Williams, CA, just off Hwy I5, about an hour north of Sacramento for a garlic fix! We stop at Luie Ciro’s(sp) in the town of Williams for some of the best Italian food in the area. They have what they call ‘Luie Bread’. It is baked French bread with about a 1/2" of chopped fresh garlic on top. Wow, what a smell! Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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I would welcome information from anyone with views on whether garlic keeps away mosquitoes.  I have heard from several sources that it works, and have read that the British Army give garlic capsules to their troops in Belize.  However, I am always sceptical about these remedies until enough people provide some type of proof.  For a while people said that Vitamin B 12 was effective; but I feel that if it truly was, then we would all know by now.   If someone has had experience of the effectiveness of garlic, then I would be keen to know if they think that the capsules are as effective as the real thing. John www.travelbooks.co.uk www.cheapflights.co.uk —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would welcome information from anyone with views on whether garlic keeps away mosquitoes.  I have heard from several sources that it works, and have read that the British Army give garlic capsules to their troops in Belize.  However, I am always sceptical about these remedies until enough people provide some type of proof.  For a while people said that Vitamin B 12 was effective; but I feel that if it truly was, then we would all know by now. If someone has had experience of the effectiveness of garlic, then I would be keen to know if they think that the capsules are as effective as the real thing. John www.travelbooks.co.uk www.cheapflights.co.uk —

     It is also said to keep away vampires and definatly keeps people out of your private space. Blood sucking varmits are attracted by carbon dioxide, masking your exhalation with garlic does work as does smoking. Here in florida "no seeums" are really bad during dry seasons but I am not bothered by them due to my smoking. Garlic will do wonders for your colesteral count and inhibit the pesky little critters. It is recomended to crunch whole garlic cloves however it must be done at the beginning of a long weekend when your wife or girlfriend or both are out of town.                                                     John Popp                                                   in Sanford Fl.

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John, garlic is good for keeping people away, but doesn’t work on mosquitoes. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would welcome information from anyone with views on whether garlic keeps away mosquitoes.  I have heard from several sources that it works, and have read that the British Army give garlic capsules to their troops in Belize.  However, I am always sceptical about these remedies until enough people provide some type of proof.  For a while people said that Vitamin B 12 was effective; but I feel that if it truly was, then we would all know by now.   If someone has had experience of the effectiveness of garlic, then I would be keen to know if they think that the capsules are as effective as the real thing. John www.travelbooks.co.uk www.cheapflights.co.uk —

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Question:

That’s real interesting!

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but don’t come for the atlantic salmon fishing – the spring season as reported in April Trout and Salmon mag. has been generally very poor with few fish caught, and a lot of excuses (none of which conceal the awful truth of a near collapse of Atlantic Salmon stocks.  Read Fly Fisherman current issue…….tight lines elsewhere guys

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Question:

Thinking about camping in vermont and want input on good campgrounds with large private sites and activities for children. I was looking at Lake Dunmore Kampersville. Has anyone ever been there and what is it like. Thanks Pat

Pat, Lake Dunmore is very nice.  You may also want to look at the Vermont State Parks Website.  I have included my standard message below for your ease of access.  Good luck. You can visit the Vermont State Parks website at http://www.state.vt.us/anr/fpr/parks/. The site details all of Vermont’s state parks and camping opportunities. James Ehlers Underhill, Vemont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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The 1998 Vermont Campground Guide is now in print. Call VT Forests and Parks at 802-241-3655 to have a copy mailed to you. The guide lists all state parks as well as private. Good descriptions for both. VT Campground Association:  http://www.campvermont.com VT Forests & Parks:   http://www.state.vt.us/anr/fpr/parks Dev Vallencourt                      "Simplicity is the essence Center Designs                                 of good design." Waterbury Center, VT         -Mr. Brossier, 7th gr. art teacher http://www.sover.net/~laserldy

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Thinking about camping in vermont and want input on good campgrounds with large private sites and activities for children. I was looking at Lake Dunmore Kampersville. Has anyone ever been there and what is it like. Thanks Pat

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Question:

writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t

know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

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For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

all around knowledge ? Red Green gets my vote. Tim Walker

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How could you forget Lee Wulff, my favorite?

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writes: If Dave Whitlock isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. For all around knowledge and no frills fishing ideas I prefer Lefty Kreh.

Lefty Kreh is one of the masters, but please, for "no frills" saltwater flies and fishing, my man is Lou Tabory!   —- "Just say no to bait"

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I just finished reviewing Jack Samson’s new biography of Lee Wullf. Super book. The review should be posted in the magazine early next week. — ** Louis Bignami, Publisher         http://www.finefishing.com Fine Fishing Internet Magazine                "largest fishing mag on the Net" **

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Check out the Fly & Field Website!  They have Dave Whitlock!  He is writing articles and fly recipes, and answering questions!  I am PSYCHED!!  If DW isn’t the alltime Master of flyfishing then I don’t know who is. I’ve been collecting his books and drawings for several years and I even got to meet him once at a fishing show in San Francisco.  He is the nicest person and his knowledge is so vast on so many topics of flyfishing it’s incredible.  I’m sorry if I sound like a blithering idiot, but this is too much.   The site is at http://www.flyfield.com/ but you can go straight to Dave at http://www.flyfield.com/dw2.htm.  They are also highlighting Davy Wotton. Does anybody know about him?  Apparently he is like the Dave Whitlock of Europe.  

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Have you ever taken a guided float trip on the lower Sacramento river (near Redding, CA)? If so I’d like to heard about your experience. – Would you recommend your guide? – How good was your guide with beginners? – When is the best time to go? I’m thinking of taking my girlfriend on a float trip on the lower Sacramento as her first ff’ing trip.  I’ve already took her out casting and she seemed to really enjoy it.  I’d like to take her on a trip that’s comfortable (she doesn’t get wet), not too stressful (no wading around rough streams), where she doesn’t have to cast far, relatively nice senery, where she stand a very good chance of catching fish (but no fish ponds), relatively close to SF, not too expensive (no $1,000 Orvis fishing schools), where I can also enjoy the trip, and where she’ll learn from a professional (I’ve heard too many horror stories about teaching your SO to fly fish). How’s that for being specific … :^) Thanks, steve

Steve, I promised you a phone number for an excellent guide… (916) 243-5505  Mr. Steve Foster Hope you get an opportunity, good luck!! Bert

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Have you ever taken a guided float trip on the lower Sacramento river (near Redding, CA)? If so I’d like to heard about your experience. – Would you recommend your guide? – How good was your guide with beginners? – When is the best time to go? I’m thinking of taking my girlfriend on a float trip on the lower Sacramento as her first ff’ing trip.  I’ve already took her out casting and she seemed to really enjoy it.  I’d like to take her on a trip that’s comfortable (she doesn’t get wet), not too stressful (no wading around rough streams), where she doesn’t have to cast far, relatively nice senery, where she stand a very good chance of catching fish (but no fish ponds), relatively close to SF, not too expensive (no $1,000 Orvis fishing schools), where I can also enjoy the trip, and where she’ll learn from a professional (I’ve heard too many horror stories about teaching your SO to fly fish). How’s that for being specific … :^) Thanks, steve

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