Question:

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

Actually, I use them there too. I can see if you didn’t fasten it on good it could get pushed off by a guide as the line went into the backing. I use thread and Aquaseal to fasten the end of the connector on instead of the shrink tubing partly for that reason. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

It was a shooting head to running line. The fish decided it was too close to the boat. It took off and on the way throught the guides the shrink tube that keeps the braid from fraying must have hit a guide that released the tension on the braid and bye bye fish and shooting head. I went home and cut off all the braided loops from all my lines and tied nail knots on all leader and backing to fly line connections. Haven’t had a problem in the 9 years since I did that. Paul

Response:

I did exactly that . . . I got rid of the braided connectors and went to the mono nail knot/perfection loop. Mine is about 4 inches in length as attached. I used the backend of a leader that I commonly use. I figured it should be similar to the leader material in weight and make up, so I used one! At this point, I wont go back to the braided connectors. I did it to the following: Orvis Wonderline WF 5wt SA Mastery Series GPX WF 5wt I am also planning on using this method on my 7wt when I get the rod built!! Wayne says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

Response:

My floating lines are set up with braided loops and nail knotted mono/perfection loops on the sinking ones.  Braided loops can trap air and hold the tip of a sinking line up.  I once used one on a Type 5 sinktip only to see the belly two foot down and the tip on the surface.  Since then all sinking lines have been mono only.  As Ken mentioned, they should be as short as practical and roughly  two thirds the thickness of the tip or about mid way in thickness between the leader butt and line tip. All braided loops will fail if they are not installed properly.  The end of the floating fly line should be sealed with glue to prevent the ingress of water that would cause the tip to sink.  The tip of the line should be inserted fully into the sleeve and as far as possible into the doubled over section of the loop.  A nail knot should be tied on the opposite end of the sleeve, securing it to the line.  The heat shrink tubing should be placed over the knot and the end of the sleeve to prevent fraying as well as smoothing its passage through the guides.  Glue shouldn’t be used on the sleeve as it can make it brittle and prone to breakage.  Braided loops should be periodically checked for fraying. Both loop system can fail, even when well installed.  Enough pressure can break a braided loop, pull a nail knot off the line, or break a perfection loop.  The trick is to make sure that the transition loop isn’t the weakest link.  A properly installed braided loop provide superior turnover due to their inherent stiffness when properly installed and are especially suited to use with heavy sinking leaders like Airflo Polyleaders.  Their tendency to float helps keep the tips of floating lines up plus they can also serve as strike indicators if you use a bright coloured heat shrink tube. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bill, After a phone conversation with your staff about 3 weeks ago, I went to the nail knot/surgeon’s or perfection loop set-up for all my saltwater rigs.  I also shortened my Orvis 38 ft. shooting head to 30 ft. per their suggestion and casting improved tremendously.  I kept trying to buy some shooting heads from those guys and they insisted I check locally to see what was being used successfully.  I have to say they ended up getting me steered in the right directions on a number of saltwater options.  I would suggest though, that east coast fishing setups  can be related to west coast fishing setups through water temperatures. Might broaden your sales base?? — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

… The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  …

I use the nail knot/perfection loop setup on my 5wts. I like Orvis Super Strong and find that .019 matches up with my 5wt lines. Most anything in the range of .017 to .021 would work. As for the length, I make it as short as  I possibly can and still tie a perfection loop. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Wolfgang writes:  Evidently, there is more than one way to tie a "surgeon’s" knot.

and yours is better, my man. Had real pretty knots fishing on Thursday. You should be proud!                    your grateful Clavemeister

Response:

By now, the second annual Penn’s creek clave is mostly history and well chronicled at that.  However, there remain a few items worthy of note. Snapshot:  Half a dozen or so guys stand on a bridge, munching hot dogs thoughtfully provided and cooked by Mike Shaw, and watching one of their brothers kneeling on the bank, casting repeatedly to a sporadically rising fish.  Many suggestions about where to put the fly are offered, as well as commentary on casting technique.  No one says anything but one thought looms in all minds……lean forward just a bit more, Frank….just a wee bit more!      :)

and you didn’t push – you’re all slipping. I sat on the bank of Pine creek next to Tom Littleton one evening while waiting for a hatch to come off and watched him make a couple of desultory casts to pass the time.  After a few moments I politely inquired, "What the fuck did you do to that leader?"  Evidently, there is more than one way to tie a "surgeon’s" knot. I want to talk to the Pennsylvania Guy Who Names Things.  A "creek" might be adequate to render a Suburban invisible but should not be large enough to hide a suburb in. Ya’ll got too many Pine creeks!

So they ran outta names – not an erudite lot, eh? Had this event been held the third week in June, with it’s longer days, me and Asadi might have had just about enough daylight to discover New York and plant the ROFFian flag, thus claiming it as our own for all time…..maybe next year.

Can we give it back after? (hate to be stuck with a noow yawk) I caught a brookie on an orange caddis provided by George Cleveland.  I win!  Thanks, George. Snapshot:  Wayno wears running bras.  Boy needs a lesson in anatomy, though.  Nuff said.

He’s had too many lessons, that’s the problem. The typical coloration of a whitetail deer faun provides excellent camouflage and it’s practice of sitting motionless is a time tested survival strategy……in its native habitat…..sucks on a gray gravel road though.  Photos available soon.

any blood splats? For those who have not yet heard:  I misplaced my Gerber (not to be confused with gerbil) multitool….one of those collapsible combination pliers, bottle opener, knife, etc., etc., thingies.  If it turns up anywhere, I will consider any reasonable ransom demand.

sorry, no gerbil here – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I fished my new fly rod for the first time….seven and a half foot, three weight, built on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank by our own Joel Axelrad…..sweet, VERY sweet!  Thank you Joel (who will not see this for some time as he is presumably somewhere in Minnesota, en route to the Prairie Pike Clave). Everybody who attends a ROFFian clave brings (and/or purchases on site) more beer and/or distilled spirits than he himself consumes.  This is the best evidence to date of some sort of cross dimensional transport. Hail does NOT improve the fishing! Pennsylvania blackflies suck just like our version up here in the Great Lakes region.    :( Don’t bother fishing Lyman lake.   No fish.  Not all that surprising, come to think of it….. no water. Frog’s Fanny works. Having just completed the calculations, I am pleased to announce that Frank Reid’s fly box has a surface area of about 3.63 acres. Just prior to my departure for home yesterday, I returned to Mike Makela the bulk of the half cord of toilet paper with which he supplied the clavesters…..evidently we all went home as full of shit as when we arrived.

from what I heard, a lot got shot as well However they may state it, most ROFFians believe that their chosen avocation is a means of getting closer to God, or some such metaphysical rumination.  I got real close the other day.  He yelled at me….said, "GET THE HELL OUT OF MY CREEK!", or something to that effect.  I listened……FAST!      :(

wazzat you? I enjoyed the week immensely.  It was great to catch up with friends and make new ones.  Shit, even Willi isn’t near as mean in person as he looks on ROFF! Wolfgang and pj really IS a sweetheart!

Louie has a real dumbfuck picture of you.  better pay him off real quick. Cheers Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Wolfgang writes:  Evidently, there is more than one way to tie a "surgeon’s" knot. and yours is better, my man. Had real pretty knots fishing on Thursday. You should be proud!                    your grateful Clavemeister

Delighted to be of service!  It DOES sort of highlight the difficulties inherent in this medium though, don’t it?       Wolfgang o.k., so, would someone please explai……ah shit, never mind.    

Response:

Great report, Wolfie. I look forward to my first opportunity to attend a clave. -Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By now, the second annual Penn’s creek clave is mostly history and well chronicled at that.  However, there remain a few items worthy of note. Snapshot:  Half a dozen or so guys stand on a bridge, munching hot dogs thoughtfully provided and cooked by Mike Shaw, and watching one of their brothers kneeling on the bank, casting repeatedly to a sporadically rising fish.  Many suggestions about where to put the fly are offered, as well as commentary on casting technique.  No one says anything but one thought looms in all minds……lean forward just a bit more, Frank….just a wee bit more!      :) I sat on the bank of Pine creek next to Tom Littleton one evening while waiting for a hatch to come off and watched him make a couple of desultory casts to pass the time.  After a few moments I politely inquired, "What the fuck did you do to that leader?"  Evidently, there is more than one way to tie a "surgeon’s" knot. I want to talk to the Pennsylvania Guy Who Names Things.  A "creek" might be adequate to render a Suburban invisible but should not be large enough to hide a suburb in. Ya’ll got too many Pine creeks! Had this event been held the third week in June, with it’s longer days, me and Asadi might have had just about enough daylight to discover New York and plant the ROFFian flag, thus claiming it as our own for all time…..maybe next year. I caught a brookie on an orange caddis provided by George Cleveland.  I win!  Thanks, George. Snapshot:  Wayno wears running bras.  Boy needs a lesson in anatomy, though.  Nuff said. The typical coloration of a whitetail deer faun provides excellent camouflage and it’s practice of sitting motionless is a time tested survival strategy……in its native habitat…..sucks on a gray gravel road though.  Photos available soon. For those who have not yet heard:  I misplaced my Gerber (not to be confused with gerbil) multitool….one of those collapsible combination pliers, bottle opener, knife, etc., etc., thingies.  If it turns up anywhere, I will consider any reasonable ransom demand. I fished my new fly rod for the first time….seven and a half foot, three weight, built on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank by our own Joel Axelrad…..sweet, VERY sweet!  Thank you Joel (who will not see this for some time as he is presumably somewhere in Minnesota, en route to the Prairie Pike Clave). Everybody who attends a ROFFian clave brings (and/or purchases on site) more beer and/or distilled spirits than he himself consumes.  This is the best evidence to date of some sort of cross dimensional transport. Hail does NOT improve the fishing! Pennsylvania blackflies suck just like our version up here in the Great Lakes region.    :( Don’t bother fishing Lyman lake.   No fish.  Not all that surprising, come to think of it….. no water. Frog’s Fanny works. Having just completed the calculations, I am pleased to announce that Frank Reid’s fly box has a surface area of about 3.63 acres. Just prior to my departure for home yesterday, I returned to Mike Makela the bulk of the half cord of toilet paper with which he supplied the clavesters…..evidently we all went home as full of shit as when we arrived. However they may state it, most ROFFians believe that their chosen avocation is a means of getting closer to God, or some such metaphysical rumination.  I got real close the other day.  He yelled at me….said, "GET THE HELL OUT OF MY CREEK!", or something to that effect.  I listened……FAST!      :( I enjoyed the week immensely.  It was great to catch up with friends and make new ones.  Shit, even Willi isn’t near as mean in person as he looks on ROFF! Wolfgang and pj really IS a sweetheart!

Response:

By now, the second annual Penn’s creek clave is mostly history and well chronicled at that.  However, there remain a few items worthy of note. Snapshot:  Half a dozen or so guys stand on a bridge, munching hot dogs thoughtfully provided and cooked by Mike Shaw, and watching one of their brothers kneeling on the bank, casting repeatedly to a sporadically rising fish.  Many suggestions about where to put the fly are offered, as well as commentary on casting technique.  No one says anything but one thought looms in all minds……lean forward just a bit more, Frank….just a wee bit more!      :) I sat on the bank of Pine creek next to Tom Littleton one evening while waiting for a hatch to come off and watched him make a couple of desultory casts to pass the time.  After a few moments I politely inquired, "What the fuck did you do to that leader?"  Evidently, there is more than one way to tie a "surgeon’s" knot. I want to talk to the Pennsylvania Guy Who Names Things.  A "creek" might be adequate to render a Suburban invisible but should not be large enough to hide a suburb in. Ya’ll got too many Pine creeks! Had this event been held the third week in June, with it’s longer days, me and Asadi might have had just about enough daylight to discover New York and plant the ROFFian flag, thus claiming it as our own for all time…..maybe next year. I caught a brookie on an orange caddis provided by George Cleveland.  I win!  Thanks, George. Snapshot:  Wayno wears running bras.  Boy needs a lesson in anatomy, though.  Nuff said. The typical coloration of a whitetail deer faun provides excellent camouflage and it’s practice of sitting motionless is a time tested survival strategy……in its native habitat…..sucks on a gray gravel road though.  Photos available soon. For those who have not yet heard:  I misplaced my Gerber (not to be confused with gerbil) multitool….one of those collapsible combination pliers, bottle opener, knife, etc., etc., thingies.  If it turns up anywhere, I will consider any reasonable ransom demand. I fished my new fly rod for the first time….seven and a half foot, three weight, built on a St. Croix Legend Ultra blank by our own Joel Axelrad…..sweet, VERY sweet!  Thank you Joel (who will not see this for some time as he is presumably somewhere in Minnesota, en route to the Prairie Pike Clave). Everybody who attends a ROFFian clave brings (and/or purchases on site) more beer and/or distilled spirits than he himself consumes.  This is the best evidence to date of some sort of cross dimensional transport. Hail does NOT improve the fishing! Pennsylvania blackflies suck just like our version up here in the Great Lakes region.    :( Don’t bother fishing Lyman lake.   No fish.  Not all that surprising, come to think of it….. no water. Frog’s Fanny works. Having just completed the calculations, I am pleased to announce that Frank Reid’s fly box has a surface area of about 3.63 acres. Just prior to my departure for home yesterday, I returned to Mike Makela the bulk of the half cord of toilet paper with which he supplied the clavesters…..evidently we all went home as full of shit as when we arrived. However they may state it, most ROFFians believe that their chosen avocation is a means of getting closer to God, or some such metaphysical rumination.  I got real close the other day.  He yelled at me….said, "GET THE HELL OUT OF MY CREEK!", or something to that effect.  I listened……FAST!      :( I enjoyed the week immensely.  It was great to catch up with friends and make new ones.  Shit, even Willi isn’t near as mean in person as he looks on ROFF! Wolfgang and pj really IS a sweetheart!

Response:

Question:

So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it becomes a murderer.  Like it or not.

Response:

What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So, if I declare war on Mr. G before I were to shoot him, this would be justifiable homicide and not REDRUM! Opie it becomes a murderer.  Like it or not.

Response:

What does any of this have to do with fly fishing? Is there fly fishing to be done in the persian gulf? Should we hire a guide?

        Aww, don’t be such a Jesuit. To paraphrase someone, an overly fanatic attention to neatness is a sign of an unhealthy mind. A little variation on a theme

Question:

    my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

Wayne; Two information sources I can think of, and both are excellent IMO: <<www.rockymtnflyfisher.com and Fly Fishing The North Platte by Rod Walinchus, Pruett Publishing, Boulder, CO, 800-247-8224. Rocky Mountain Fly Fisher produces a Windows CD-ROM with info and maps on sevreal dozen Rocky Mountain streams. Al Marlowe

Response:

Question:

<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

Response:

Like I said, I like it.  Shows you something about the internal contradiction in the Moth. Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them   They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog.

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

Well, this may have something to it, Then again, I think their presence also may intend to show something of the *external* contratictions and conflicts within the sport, in fact, I think that was the point. chipper

Response:

I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.                    shallow is the depth of some souls                    the hull is inevitibly worn thin                    from years of misuse                                                                       William Davis

Response:

<<I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.    theknuckle   Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? -Ray

Response:

Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup?

Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

The cold monk burns the image of the buddah, reads about the sacred cows and murmors — oh shit it sure is cold.

Response:

Well, little moth girl, "the knuckle" is a type of motor that was made by harley-davidson motorcycles from 1932 to 1947. It is a highly coveted motorcycle. I do have multiple personalities, unlike a lot of people on r.p.b. Work…paddle….work…paddle. I know…some of you are saying, "well, what else is there to do?" The answer is…Plenty! I many past times that I enjoy. From skateboarding, flyfishing, playing nine ball(billiards), and riding and building harley-davidson motorcycles, not to mention scads of other things. enthusiasts. But surely you must know that I always put RPB in my "favorite places" folder so that I can check on all you paddlepeople whenever I want. So, now you know. Paddler…Biker….Fisherman…Pool Shark…Thrillseeker…Bad Billy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)   "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer </PRE</HTML

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

I don’t think so, Robin, re-read it – the "offensive" sections are part of a whole.  Nice-writing, Cubic Dog. – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

Response:

I like it! shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul,

snip… Very Nice…

Response:

"Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery"

Well Said Brother

Response:

Awesome poetic commentary!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

The best post to this group in days!

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"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

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Question:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

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Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Michael, The phone number for NYSOGA is 518 798 1253.  Good luck. James Ehlers NYSOGA Member Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Mike – Contact the DEC in Raybrooke, NY (area code 518) and they can refer you to the proper office which will mail out an aplication form as well as requirements. What is required for the Backpacking/Hiking & Camping Licence: (If I remember correctly) -Passing a Physical Exam from your Doctor, -Basic First Aid AND Water Safety Course OR  Advanced First Aid (Includes Water Safety course) -Taking a 2 or 3 hour test at your Regional DEC Office (Core plus area of  specialty  -Climbing/Hiking & Backpacking/Canoeing/Camping…) -Fee of around $50-$75 Good Luck Rick Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

– ***NOTICE*** Do not use autosend with the spam defeater  Rick Story

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Question:

Horrocks-Ibbotson was one of the most prolific rod makers, making rods at a variety of quality levels and price points. I’m not familiar with the Thunderbird model, but if you can describe the inscriptions, decals, wraps, reel seat, etc in detail, I might be able to give you some more information. — Best regards, Dave Visit Dave Teffeteller’s Fly Fishing Guides Home Page http://www.olfart.com

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Hello all ,  I am relatively new to fly fishing and fly tying . Maybe someone can help . I recently picked up a fly rod at a yard sale and I’m looking for help identifying it or the builders . It’s about 6 1/2 ft and looks handmade . On the rod it has written , chrome plated stainless steel guides. It says thermo weld process and then the name Thunderbird with a picture of it looks like an indian or aztec bird.Just above the grip it says tournement taper, rigid butt-sensitive tip . Then it has what I assume to be the co. that built it – looks like Harrocks-Ibberson Co.utica NY made in USA and under that the #1464XL . All this writing looks to be done by hand .If anyone can help me track down the company that made it or give me any information at all ,  I would be grateful . Thanks

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Question:

Dear All; Concerning my other Post about Cabela’s:   I’m sure a lot of our Flyfishing bretheren would appreciate product reviews now and then:  How it performed, if it met/exceeded/failed you expectations, good deals and good values, comparisons to other products, (in your humble opinions) etc… Please post your experiences with products, destinations, materials, etc.  It would be greatly appreciated.  It may also inspire some more lively debate.  That has been missing from the rec. group lately. Your humble servant; Jason Beary

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Dear All; Concerning my other Post about Cabela’s: I’m sure a lot of our Flyfishing bretheren would appreciate product reviews now and then:  How it performed, if it met/exceeded/failed you expectations, good deals and good values, comparisons to other products, (in your humble opinions) etc… Please post your experiences with products, destinations, materials, etc.  It would be greatly appreciated.  It may also inspire some more lively debate.  That has been missing from the rec. group lately. Your humble servant; Jason Beary

Howdy Jason, Thanks for the opportunity to talk about something besides PETA or the raging War of Oregon. I think I’m gonna hide out here a while :^I I’ll tell you about a nice little rod that I want to buy, the Orvis Clearwater Series Far & Fine. I picked one up for my brother a few years back as a B-Day present (as I recall it cost about a hundred bucks or so) and when he came to visit me in CO last year I got a chance to cast the thing. Very, very nice action, kind of slow but snappy. He let me try it out and I didn’t want to give it back (leaving him to cast my 9′/5 wt Sage RPL). I’ve never been a huge fan of Orvis, but IMO this is a great rod with a very relaxed but controlled action. For me it casts better than many rods that cost three times as much. Steve

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Question:

I’m planning a trip up to the Markleeville area for some flyfishing, June 15. I typically try Pleasant Valley Creek. Has anyone heard what the runoff and fishing conditions are in this area? Thanks, Rob W.

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I’m planning a trip up to the Markleeville area for some flyfishing, June 15. I typically try Pleasant Valley Creek. Has anyone heard what the runoff and fishing conditions are in this area? Thanks, Rob W.

Hi, Rob, It’s early Friday morning and I too am going up to Markleeville this weekend. It’s my first time and I don’t know what to expect. Perhaps we’ll see one another on the water. Best of luck. Mike —                      Michael S. Young The RREEF Funds, 650 California Street, San Francisco, CA 94108           "Chaos is normal; normality is exceptional."

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Question:

About a month ago I asked for info about fishing in N. Georgia.  The response was very good and I thank everyone.   Well, we just got back from the trip to Ga., and I have to tell ya, if I didn’t see it with my own eyes, I wouldn’t believe it.  I discovered the Chatooga River, infamous for being the river where "Deliverence" was filmed.  What an absolutely beautiful piece of water!  I thought I was back in New England.  Fast, cold (61), free stone, clear trout water. There was a hatch of very small caddis, but didn’t see too many rises.  In NE I use a cased caddis fly called the Strawman; just spun deer hair trimmed short.  Gink it up so it floats.  Ga trout like it too.  Only had two days on the Chatooga, but managed a couple of nice browns (10-14 in) down-stream from the Rt 76 bridge.  Caught a few small rainbows downstream and upstream from the Rt 28 bridge.  Great river.  I also tried the Chatahootchi ( The Hootch) below Buford Dam.  Super cold – like 53; no hatches.  But lotsa fog!  Dragged a nymph or two, and lobbed a few streamers, but got zilch.  The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!  I checked out the Hootch above the lake (iat next trip.  Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there? The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!   Good drifts, Dave LaCourse

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[snip] The rocks on this river are the slimiest, most slippery I’ve ever encountered!

You don’t even want to ask what that slick stuff is! Also, I’d like to try the Chatooga just below the NC border.  Anyone know how to get there?

Go east from the river on Hwy 28 .  Hwy 107 will enter from the left. Take 107 north until you pass the state park on the right.  Start looking for the sign on the left for Burrells Ford road.  It’s a couple of miles down this road to the river.  When you get to the river the NC state line is about 4-4 1/2 miles upstream.  This part of the river is mainly brown trout water and is not stocked.  A good trail goes upstream on the east (South Carolina) side of the river. You can fish on the South Carolina side of the river with a Georgia license, just don’t go up any feeder streams.  As an alternate go west from the river on hwy 28.  Take the first gravel road to the right. That will bring you in to the opposite side of Burrells Ford. The roads in Georgia are also terrific, and gas was $1.07 a gallon (it’s $1.50 here in Mass)!  Georgia’s not NH or Maine, but it’s great!  

We don’t tax gas heavy but did you check the price of beer and cigs? Got to make those sinners pay! See ya, John Johnson Atlanta, GA

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