Question:

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Yep, he always gets Chill Wills and Slim Pickens mixed up… — Charlie…

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!!

Yup…but when the brewery is shut down for construction…ya gotta just make do. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes…

Oh, I don’t know. I think there’s a lot more to it than passing down indignities. Team building, male bonding etc. etc. Not that I’m in favor of hazing but I’ve endured some, I’ve inflicted some and I’m no worse for the we&*6YHOU&UK arghhh, kill, kill, sue, sue, CANCEL THE WHOLE DAMN HOCKEY SEASON. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!! Mr. G.

Response:

Now listen here bud,   awwwww, forget it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on.

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes… —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

two-story outhouse. How would that work? —

The story I got was that the outhouse had been built for a hotel that was built during the 1880’s and the hotel was above the timberline. The snow got so deep that the hotel and all other buildings had have doors  that worked when the snow was so high that doors on the first floor could not be opened…you just couldnot wait till the snow melts, so… Big Dale

Response:

daytripper wrote Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

The man is no fool.  Over the top is exactly where you want to be while using the establishment in question!  (Especially if ET2 is standing outside throwing rocks into the muck)

Response:

TBone wrote [deleted] To hell with the beer. To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT !

Sorry.  Misspoke.  Meant to say, "To hell with the Bud" Can I be excused now? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

______  Great!  If David LaCourse was on the first floor. Dang!  Did I say that?  Sorry David, even you don’t deserve that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance …

Remove your hands from the keyboard, and leave them where I can see ‘em… Let me be sure that I’m understanding correctly: We have a nasty C&R thread that’s forked, we have a couple of g*nk threads, and people are complaining about beer postings in a Clave thread? I’m sure that there’s logic behind such matters. I’m also sure that I’m not following it. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

Response:

I had to do a search and see if I could find a photo of this two-story outhouse on the Internet.  I remember watching a program about a two- story outhouse on t.v.   Additionally, thought I could remember seeing a photo on the Internet of a two-story outhouse.  So, I had to refined the photo.  Here are the photos of two-story outhouses that I’ve found. http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5047/outhouse.html http://w3.trib.com/~leebo/gem.htm http://www.mich.com/~jloose/ohorania.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Here are some more photos. http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette004/gif/035.GIF http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette005/gif/038.GIF http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/wanderers/Brokenislands/outhouse.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the [budweiser].  I’m still trying to visualize a two- story outhouse.  How would that work?

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter. Encampment, Wyoming has one of these, too. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter.

This is not always the case.  The web sites that I found talk about the two story outhouse being next to a hotel.  The top part was for those people that had a hotel room on the second floor.  A small bridge was built to the outhouse so they would not need to walk down at night. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad. Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Response:

1/10/00 Ruling 611/b In the Matter:   First use of Word "beer" in Western Clave Thread Ruling: Dismissal of Query. Reason: Mere use of the word "beer" does not constitute an offense, unless the word(s) "Budwiser," or "Bud," or any similar, are used in the same post as the word "beer." Issued by Order of , , , Thread Police Summary Justice Authority "To Serve and Protect" Have a nice day – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                 anything you say can be used against you …

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer … Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread.

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse.  How would that work? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad.  Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

Response:

[deleted] To hell with the beer.

To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer and check out the sights. I took a picture which accidentaly turned out very good. This is unusual for me, but when I show off this picture of a two story outhouse, most turn it over to see where the postcard is from. It seems like they had torn down some old buildings from all over the state and reassembled them in this little town I guess as sort of a tourist thing. At any rate I can’t remember the name of the town. It could have been Virginia City or it could be some other little town in the area. Does anyone know which town I am talking about? Most folks remember it if they have ever seen a two story outhouse. It is not a bad place to burn up some film. At any rate I would encourage all to bring a camera and to remember to take pictures of things other than fish. Big Dale

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer …

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                  anything you say can be used against you …

Response:

Question:

Wayne Knight: (envious story snipped) Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO

Here we are sittin’ out a snow storm and you’re fishing!  ’Tain’t fair.  It was a good day, Wayne, just to be out there. Dave L.

Response:

Ok, Forty you asked for it….

Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ok, Forty you asked for it…. Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow.

FWIW, they are calling for snow here tonight and tomorrow. Sure hope it does not impede my flight home to Geneva on Friday. Hopefully tho, my daughter will have the driveway and sidewalks shoveled for me by the time I do get home. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

[trip snip] Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Y’know that’s really cruel to post such a report to the snowbound.  :)

Response:

Ok, Forty you asked for it…. I drove out of Kansas to Aurora Mo this past weekend where I met up with Kerry Evans, a contributor to the board, and a long time resident of SW Missouri. Crane is a creek I’ve been hearing about for about a year and wanted to try, plus it is about the closest real trout water to Halstead KS, being only 260 miles away, and whatever it’s faults as a fishing destination, eastern Kansas has some damn good roads <g. All things being equal, I would have prefered to let the weather change a little more but not having seen a trout since October I was going through withdrawal symptons. After meeting for breakfast, I followed Kerry to the creek. Yup the water is low, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelly low, and it was is gin clear. The only other time I’ve seen water this clear has been in WI spring creeks in the fall, never in the winter. Kerry did his best to put me over fish, even though the water was low, there were enough deep pools to support fish. Funny thing with a couple of exceptions we would fish the pools and see nothing and then cross the stream in 6" water and see fish scattering away from us…..There was this one pool which we saw several fish, but just could not get them to take our offerings. We did find some rising fish and we did our best to put them down Being winter, while there was some insect activity on the surface, the bugs were small. A size 20 Griffith’s Gnat might as well been a #10 Green Drake, these bugs were that small. Yours truly at the start was casting, if you want to call it that, as if I was just learning what a fly rod was having forgot my backcast, drink, forward cast routine…..and I probably had a false since of security, it being winter and all was not being too careful with the brush around the stream. I admit, I was cocky, I had never been stumped in Missouri before and really did not want to stealth my overweight out of shape self. Kerry was great, he is a fine fly fisher, a super guy, and to boot, he builds a rather nice rod too. But as sometimes happen, he too could not connect fly with fish. Finally, about halfway down the section we were fishing, we came upon a pool with two risers, Kerry being the gracious host he was, offered the pool to me. I figured screw it on the small stuff and tied on a favorite Michigan pattern, a size 14 parachute Robert’s Drake figuring that maybe the bow’s wanted a real meal for a change. After deteriming the first riser was a little one, I did my best Fortenberry imitation and slid along the pool side and side armed cast the drake under a tree branch to the other riser…..I was rewarded with a healthy bow which turned out to be the only fish of the day. Though the fishing was tough, and frankly had we been a little more careful, we might have been better rewarded, but we only saw one other fisherman and last we checked, he had not been successful. The creek needs some water but I will be back and will be better prepared next time. I bet in spring and fall colors the stream scenery is just dynamite. And Kerry told me about some other streams which have not been written about, they will stay a secret but I will be visiting them too! Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Visit the Austin Flyfishers at http:\www.austinflyfishers.org We have lot’s of local knowledge and some great outings

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

Thanks for all the replies.  I have ordered my book and look forward to trying my luck here in Texas. Anyone ever fish the Guadalupe near Comfort?  I will be there this weekend. When I was a kid, I used to catch bass and perch pretty easily there.  Last time I tried about two years ago I saw zero fish. Dave    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

Response:

I haven’t fished the Guadelupe in several years…just never had much confidence in that river. After looking at some web sites, scanning recent reports, have become interested again. Mostly curious as to details re DRY fly fishing on this river, as I’ve heard mostly about nymphs and wets. Do dries work here? What sections, what times of day, time of year, types of flies? Hope to start getting out there in Dec.-Jan. Thanks! ACP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish every weekend on the Guadalupe under the Canyon Lake dam.  I always catch at least some small Rainbows. I am new to Fishing for trout but I have seen 15 to 20 Rainbows all over 12" (some close to 18") within 300 yards of the Dam.  Guadalupe bass are the prime target for Texas shallow rivers, they spend a lot of tie in moving water and pull like a largemouth 150% as large. Bluegills and all sortse of sunfishes are everywhere.  People are now cathcing a Gualdalupe-smallmouth hybrids (world record in the San Marcos River) in the Blanco and other beautiful clearwater texas streams.

Response:

Go by the Austin Angler and pick up a copy of "Fly Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy.  It has pretty much all you need to get you going. Course if you already have a can of corn and want to stand elbow to elbow …. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

I was in there this afternoon and they still had a stack of them. -jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish for bass?  I know they stock the guadalupe with trout in january, but that is not exactly my idea of fishing.  You must have corn to catch those fish! Thanks    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?c ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser

Response:

<<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

Last I heard, Bud Priddy’s book was out of print.  I bought mine about 3 months ago at Austin Anglers, which still had some, so check there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I am interested in fly-fishing more and the nearest fresh water fishing is really the hill country.  Any recommendations on which rivers to fish Suggest you get a copy of "Fly-Fishing the Texas Hill Country" by Bud Priddy. It has complete information on all the rivers in the hill country. The Guadalupe has a year round trout population (the only one in Texas). You don’t have to use corn to catch them. The Guadalupe also has large and smallmouth bass and some great sunfish fishing. Check with Gruene Outfitters in Gruene. They can give you some good information. Also, Austin Anglers is a good resource. Join a local flyfishing club.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I thought I wouldn’t *ever* get my own thread. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC "If you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes." Tom Browns Bastard is causing ROFF to rave, a thread has been engendered, the results of this are grave, but he can go casting on ! casting over seventy feet, with a quick flick of the wrist, will cause most Orvis owners here to shake an angry fist, but  he will go casting on ! His spouse is not quite certain, what the ruckus is about, all this talk of Bastards, is causing her some doubt, but he will go casting on ! the waiting and the hoping now has not been all in vain, Tom at last is getting his awaited fighting cane, and he will go casting on ! Now Tom is the lead dog, and the view has changed for him, he is getting the first Bastard, with a special coloured trim, and he will go casting on ! lets hope he catches plenty, and enjoys his fishing too, perhaps he will be kind enough to give us a review, as he goes casting on ! TL MC

Thanks for the smile Mike…. –Walt To fish is soliloquy.

Response:

George,  You sending this to yourself? David NB – when the rods really make an impact you can put the price up to include a ‘doubters’ premium"! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) Trust me.  I couldn’t have picked a better Bastard to send the proto type to.  It was made with great care and it is a casting delight. Couldn’t have picked a better man. I’m gone. — Mr. G. ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Thanks.

Response:

For a prognosis of the upcoming flyangling season in the Tahoe-Truckee area I’ve just posted a new report.  During the season it will provide reliable info for those planning a flyfishing trip to the North Tahoe area. Frank R. Pisciotta Thy Rod & Staff 530.587.7333 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Contact Tahoe Fly Fishing in South Lake Tahoe    530-541-8208 They also have a web site     www.tahoeflyfishing.com I stopped in their shop last week and found them to be most helpful. Regards, Chuck you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel

    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Contact Tahoe Fly Fishing in South Lake Tahoe         530-541-8208 They also have a web site          www.tahoeflyfishing.com I stopped in their shop last week and found them to be most helpful. Regards, Chuck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you won’t be fishing this area  in May – to much snowIn article I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use. Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel    http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

I am planning on a trip to Lake Tahoe in May ‘99.  Can anyone tell me where the hot spots (preferably rivers or streams) are in the area. What kind of flies should I use.

Take note that in California, tributaries to Tahoe are closed until July. Right now there is about fifteen-twenty feet of snow in the high country near Tahoe, so unless it continues to stay winter up there, I recommend that you consider stillwater possibilities. In the South Lake Tahoe Area: If you don’t mind walking a few miles, there are lots of nice small lakes in the Desolation Wilderness that might be just coming out of ice by then (but might also still be frozen, you’ll have to wait and see. Red Lake off highway 88 might have open water, and Indian Creek reservoir near the Markleeville airport will be ice-free. There are nice streams – the West fork Carson flows through an open meadow for miles around Hope Valley and the East fork through a beautiful narrow canyon below Markleeville, either one would make for a beautiful day on the stream but you will be fighting some very high water, probably. In the North Tahoe area: The Truckee river flows for about twenty miles bordered by public highways. For stillwaters, Martis Creek reservoir in Truckee might be very good then. Other tuberous possibilities not far from North Lake Tahoe Area include Boca, Stampede and little Milton reservoirs.  The connecting stream near Boca and Stampede reservoirs might be fishable. Mark Vinsel angler artist www.vinsel.com Mark Vinsel

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Question:

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

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  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff.

How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.  Are there any soft action two handed rods out   there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod?

Yes.  Try the Sage 9140-4.  It is a soft rod, and the rod that I happen to use (and love).  St. Croix makes a pretty nice rod though it seems quite heavy to me – it is reasonably priced though. From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help. Once again: GO to a decent shop and try some out.  If you live in the Seattle, WA area, I can recommend some places. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

try Winston Rods at www.winstonrods.com also Hardy and Bruce and Walker, two English makers have a reputation for making so called true spey rods but you might have a problem sourcing those rods to try. Hardy rods were once popular here in Canada but are now hard to come by as are B&W’s. Some Sage rods are of that type but I don’t know the specifics Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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  Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two   handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too   stiff. How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to make stiff rods.

since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are 2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe his own line of rods I believe.  Other ‘experts’ such as Ehor Boyanowski and the late Roger Turner have said and written much the same thing According to Maxwell ‘true speyrods’ display a compound flex when speycasting (which is something like but not the same as roll casting) like a stylized S but with a big curve at the butt and a small curve at the tip. According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be ‘approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain and Scandanavia? From your questions, it sounds like you need to get down to a decent shop and put your hands on some rods.  All the talk in the world on this group isn’t going to help.

good advice. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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This is from an article in "Fisherman’s Handbook" from 1977 which seems relevant to this discussion. Carbon fibre rods were just available when this was written. "Most salmon fly rods today have an action which may be felt through from the heavy tip to the butt. A tip with this fairly rigid action is required because of the need to "mend" the line or straighten it out. This need arises when the strength of the current varies at different points across the stream and the line is pulled into a bow shape as it is carried downstream. this in turn carries the fly back across the flow at an unnatural angle, making it unacceptable to the salmon. The fisherman must then roll the line to mend it as the bow not only presents the fly unfavourably but also lessens the effectiveness of a strike should there be, by any odd chance, a take. A heavy tipped rod enables a weighty length of double tapered line to be lifted off the water and mended with reasonable ease." The article also points out that before carbon fibre, built cane with spliced joints was the favoured choice as it resisted the twisting force better exerted by Spey casting. — Regards Peter (Remove "nospam"to email)

<snip  : :According to Maxwell stiff rods can’t do this and speycasts can only be :’approximated’. Turner and Boyanowski have said much the same thing – :but as they like Mr Shoalseeker and myself are Vancouver area boys like :Maxwell could be we’ve just all been exposed to the same dogma – : :anyone else have any experience with this particularly in Great Britain :and Scandanavia?

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing.

- this pretty much agrees with what Maxwell says about stiff overhead rods vs slow rods; they are easier to spey cast and less tiresome to use through the day…. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Buy a spey rod from the home of spey casting (Scotland). Esthectically gorgeous, designed and built by reknowned cane rod builder David Norwich. David Norwich Icon Composites Hillside Works, Fountainhall, Nr. Galashiels,  TD1 2SU, Scotland from the USA dial 011 441  578 760 310 – Ken

Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two handed

rods, but they don’t – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -respond to true speycasting, they are too stiff. Are there any soft action two handed rods out there? Does ST.CRIOX make a spey or two handed rod? Remove the * in the e-mail address, this is for SPAM.

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A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.

I totally agree. If Spey casting is redirected roll casting, as I understand, it can be performed equally well with either fast "overhead/European-style" rods or slow "traditional Spey" rods. You just have to adjust your tempo of casting to the characteristics of a particular rods. I have used a G. Loomis’ very stiff and jerky IMX 8/9 weight 15 footer and a Winston’s soft and smooth 10 weight 15 footer. I prefer the Winston because it is just a joy to roll/Spey cast with it. I would say it is more forgiving. However, I could do with the Loomis everything I can do with the Winston. Actually, I could do at least two thing better with the Loomis than with the Winston. The Loomis could lift more line more easily than the Winston. And it is fun to overhead cast with the Loomis. I could cast further with the Loomis, too. In addition to casting characteristics, one should consider what kind of fishing he/she is going to do with a rod. I fish for steelhead in medium to big rivers, and I like to fish lazily. I hate to repeat shooting and striping line. I just roll/Spey cast long line (to me, at least, 70 feet or so) and swing the fly. Step down and repeat the process. It is so easy and efficient. (Effective? I am not sure because I hook steelhead every 30 hours or so.) For this kind of fishing, a slow rod gives me a peaceful feeling. I can enjoy more the surrounding as well as fishing. — Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Is there any spey rod manufacturer? Most manufacturer call them two     handed rods, but they don’t respond to true speycasting, they are too     stiff.   How do you know this?  Have you tried any of these rods to which you   refer.  I fish with a friend of mine who uses a sage 1015-3 (a very stiff   rod) and he can spey cast like mad – and he can throw sink tips   on the end of a double taper with ease.  I think it is a myth to say   that you can’t spey cast with a stiffer rod – it’s just not how they   used to do it on the river spey because they didn’t have materials to   make stiff rods.   since I’ve been interested in Speycasting I’ve heard that there are   2 kinds of double handed rods –  stiff rods for overhead casting and   speyrods. I think Mike Maxwell of Vancouver BC and author of "The Art and   Science of Speyfishing" coined the term ‘true speyrod’ – to describe   his own line of rods I believe.  

I’m quite familiar with the dogma, but I’ll stick by my statements. Note however, that I own a sage 9140-4 – the softest spey rod they make.  Partly out of luck, and partly I prefer the slower action.  As I say, my fishing buddy uses a 9150-3 – a very stiff stick – and casts a beautiful and tremendous line.  I don’t know what the hell it means to "only approximate a true spey cast" – nor can I possibly understand how such a notion is useful (especially to a beginner trying to find a new rod). A good spey caster can easily adjust the speed of the casting stroke and use any rod to their advantage.  This distinction between "over head rods" and "true spey rods" is also not particularly useful.  What IS useful is going to a decent shop where you can try (with the guidance of a knowledgable speycaster) several rods which span the range of actions.   Seriously, there is no better advice available than that contained in the previous sentence. As I say, I’d be happy to suggest a shop in the Seattle area. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html NOTICE: DO NOT ADD MY NAME TO _ANY_ MAILING LISTS.  

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Question:

Why not check out the tremendous striped bass/bluefish fly fishing up here in New England? June and July are two of the best months especially on Cape Cod and the Islands – check out Monomoy Island for flats fishing for stripers very similar to bonefishing in the FLA keys. Check out www.reel-time.com for additional info.

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Any opinions regarding the best place for wading saltwater flyfishing destination in late June and July.  I am thinking about the West coast of Florida or the Texas coast. PK

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Any opinions regarding the best place for wading saltwater flyfishing destination in late June and July.  I am thinking about the West coast of Florida or the Texas coast. PK

     You might also give a thought to the east coast of central florida. Things should be back to normal by then. If youve never fly fished the surf you ought to try it, it’s a hoot. A bunch of years ago I caught a flounder (exactly 3′ long) on a 7 wt. with #4 tippet on a streamer, it seems like yesterday. Any how from central florida you still have the gulf close enough plus indian river flats, surf, and fresh water in the St.John’s. Don’t you just feel so sorry for us guys who have to live here ?                                                            John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

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Question:

Okay… Anyone know what kind of glue to use for a double bunny.  YES, I know there’s  a tying newsgroup. NO, I don’t care that I’m posting this here.

I use waterproof contact cement available at many hobby shops.   Seems to offer the best flexibility.         Jeff Lewis

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We use the spray stuff–a 3M product–777 or something like that, I forget.  And yes, it does stiffen it enough (in my experience) to reduce fouling to an acceptable level.  (of course, I find it acceptable to hook myself in the ass only once or twice a trip.) Dave

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I would assume (Danger Will Robinson… Danger!) that glued together there would be much less of a problem with the bunny strips tangling in the hook bend.  Anyone have any experience one way or the other?

Hi The bunny strips will still tangle but if you put a small loop of monofilament as a kind of tail on the back of your hook either under the glued together strips or sandwiched between the strips you’ll solve the tangle problem. Good Tying & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Hi-   Lash a small short strip of X ray film so that it extends a bit beyond the bend. Not a cure all but it does reduce the tangle problem to a manageable level.    Extend the X Ray film well beyond the eye of the hook and bend at a 45 degree angle. Now you have a Wriggle Bunny. Just kidding. Honest;-)    -Ralph I would assume (Danger Will Robinson… Danger!) that glued together there would be much less of a problem with the bunny strips tangling in the hook bend.  Anyone have any experience one way or the other?

California School of Flyfishing. Fishing conditions, hatch charts, product reviews, tips, techniques and more.  http://www.FLYLINE.com

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Okay… Anyone know what kind of glue to use for a double bunny.  YES, I know there’s  a tying newsgroup. NO, I don’t care that I’m posting this here.

Hi I use Zap A Gap with good success. I suppose a flexible 5 minute epoxy would work as well. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Okay… Anyone know what kind of glue to use for a double bunny.  YES, I know there’s  a tying newsgroup. NO, I don’t care that I’m posting this here.

[Insert rebel yell here] Shall I change the header to "Let’s kill .tying", or do you want to ?  Just kidding John F…. Big Ol’ <{g… God I love this place… RE: this thread… While I have long watched from a distance the creations involving silicone, cyanocrylics and Martha Stuart’s Hot Glue, I have yet to use them…I do not even use head cement…I see no need whatsoever to glue down the stips on a double bunny.  I might throw some copper ribbing to tie ‘em down, but glue is yukky. YMWV. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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RE: this thread… While I have long watched from a distance the creations involving silicone, cyanocrylics and Martha Stuart’s Hot Glue, I have yet to use them…I do not even use head cement…I see no need whatsoever to glue down the stips on a double bunny.  I might throw some copper ribbing to tie ‘em down, but glue is yukky. YMWV.

I would assume (Danger Will Robinson… Danger!) that glued together there would be much less of a problem with the bunny strips tangling in the hook bend.  Anyone have any experience one way or the other?

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Okay… Anyone know what kind of glue to use for a double bunny.  YES, I know there’s  a tying newsgroup. NO, I don’t care that I’m posting this here.

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Okay… Anyone know what kind of glue to use for a double bunny.  YES, I know there’s  a tying newsgroup. NO, I don’t care that I’m posting this here.

Barge Cement. Ralph H "…      the sabbath rang slowly      in the pebbles of the holy streams!" Dylan Thomas, "Fern Hill"

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Question:

We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be concentrating our time in the Guysbourough (sp?) area and heading over to Prince Edward Island for a few days.  We already have the stream map of NOva Scotia…are there any streams/rivers in the areas we’ll be traveling in that offer good fishing without guides?  WE are not interested in fishing solely for salmon but would like to fish for brook trout.  In addition, what are some good fly patterns to bring along. Finally, if anyone can recommend a lodge/bed and breakfast in the areawe would appreciate knowing about it.  Thank you in advance for any information.  Carolyn Mahan and Kurt Engstrom

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We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be concentrating our time in the Guysbourough (sp?) area and heading over to Prince Edward Island for a few days.  We already have the stream map of NOva Scotia…are there any streams/rivers in the areas we’ll be traveling in that offer good fishing without guides?  WE are not interested in fishing solely for salmon but would like to fish for brook trout.  In addition, what are some good fly patterns to bring along. Finally, if anyone can recommend a lodge/bed and breakfast in the areawe would appreciate knowing about it.  Thank you in advance for any information.  Carolyn Mahan and Kurt Engstrom

There are several interesting rivers in that area. the most notable is probably Salmon River just outside of town (Guysbourough) You will find Brown / Speckled trout and Atlantic Salmon there There is also the Country Harbour River nearby but you may be a bit late for it, however if things are slow……. You will also find on your map that you are not far from the St. Mary’s River one of the best salmon rivers in the province and worth a look over even if it is close to the season’s end by the time you are going to be in the area. I haven’t stayed in that area for many years and therfore cannot recommend a place to stay but the Dept of Tourism puts out a book called Where to Stay in Nova Scotia that will give lots of info. They will send you one for the asking                                 Hope you enjoy your trip                                         Geoff  _  / __  __  __/   _  / / /__  /_    __  /_      / /_/ /  _  /___   / /_/ / _  __/    _  __/      ____/   /_____/   ____/  /_/       /_/        http://highlander.cbnet.ns.ca/ Cape Breton Community Network Check it out !!

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We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be

Might consider contacting Dennis and Verlie Grant of the Atlantic Fly Fishing School,  902/67302590.  Denis is a FFF master caster and a really nice guy.  They run a small bed and breakfast, as well. Tell him I said hello.  Hope this helps.  David Lambert

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Question:

I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

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The definitive book on custom rod building is : Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens publisher is Winchester Press. Can be bought through any mail order catalog that sells rod building supplies. — Dave

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In my opinnion "Start to Finish Fly rod Building" (50 pages) published by the FlexCoat Company is more than sufissient to do a very good first-time job. If you fall in love with rod building you can buy the more comprehensive stuff. I bought it from Anglers Workshop, WA. Good Luck Jan errik Frithjofsen I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

Jan Erik Frithjofsen

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I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking

through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building<< A very good book with excellent photographs of the building process including many close ups  is Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod by Louis Garcia, published by Frank Amato Publications, it sells for $15.95.  This is an excellent book for the first time builder.  It walks you through the process from start to finish in a clear and precise manner. A.G.W. Manchester, NH

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I’m interested in attempting to build my own fly rod.  I’ve been looking through several catalogs for supplies, so no problem there.  Does anyone have any advice on "how to" books regarding rod building? Thanks.

A good book is one by Skip Morris on building graphite fly rods.  Also check mail order houses who specialize in rod building (e.g., Dale Clemens in Allentown, PA)

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: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras?

Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

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: I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? Here’s another alternative: don’t use flex coat.  Their epoxy is too thick and the syringes are unreliable.  I use a two-part epoxy formula made by Manhattan Custom Tackle that gives a thin, glassy finish.  You mix it using metal measuring spoons, so you know the parts are equal.

I have had great sucess with the thinner of the two Flex Coat formulations.. After you build a rod them away. Replacement syringes are cheap insurance.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods!

I am surprised that no one commented on a simpler solution to pulling the thread through and cutting it off with a sharp knife/ razorblade/ X-acto knife/ etc. You can use the same method but leave the end of the thraed rather short, let’s say 1/8th. of an inch. If you pull this short end back under the last 10 wraps or so none of it will come out and you won’t have to bother with trimming the end off or singing it or having an unsightly stump. It may not always work but it really is quite simple. Good luck! Tom Hackmann

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

I have a question about the two part epoxy. I built two rods and the first one went fine because I used the syringes provided with the Crystal Coat to measure the two parts. The second rod is still tacky after 4 months, probably because the measurement of the Coat was incorrect. Why? Because the two measuring syringes were all gunked up from the first use.  So two questions. 1. How do you clean the syringes? No I didn’t mix the two. 2. Where do you buy new syringes without buying an entire new package of Clear Coat?

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I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

The directions on the Flex Coat I’ve been practicing with says not to clean the syringes.  I think it says to simply store them seperately in air tight containers.  I have not gone back to look at them since I put them in zip lock baggies, so I’m not sure if I’ll face the same problem you had or not.  As far as extras, the mail order companies (e.g. Angler’s Workshop, Jans) seem to have the best prices on these type of supplies.

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—— snip ——- : : I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod : came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod : the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So : I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you : purchase extras? I was told by the guys at Flexcoat to use alcohol to clean the syringes. I have also read in Advanced Custom Rod Building by Dale Clemens that you can thin the Flexcoat up to 15% to make it thiner. I store my syringes in mid-stroke after cleaning. Oh, Netcrafter’s sells them seperately including the mixing cups. Keep your feet dry, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Andy If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make the job easier. To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no end showing. Just take your time, nothing is difficult. Chuck

I’ve built two rods and the only problem I ran into was mixing the flexcoat. The first rod came out wonderfully because I used the measuring syringes.  Next rod the syringes were all gunked up and my mix was tacky for 6 months. So I ask how do you clean them out after each use and or where do you purchase extras?

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: Andy : : If you can find a flyshop that has a rod building class I strongly : recommend it. I built my first rod on Sage RPL blank and I am very : pleased with the result. A good teacher has a lot of tricks that make : the job easier. : : To prevent bubbles, blow on the wet flex coat. First after mixing, : then after applying. Bubbles disappear like magic. : : To pull end of wrap under the winding  use a piece of same thread to : make a loop and catch the main thread. Continue to wind for1/8 inch or : so and pull the loop to snug it against the last turn. Cut off the end : of the thread  with a SHARP razor blade leaving about 1/16 inch end. : Grasp the loop and give a quick pull back against the direction the : thread is being wound. The end will pull under the winding leaving no : end showing. : : Just take your time, nothing is difficult. : : Chuck Chuck, I agree with every thing you have read, and I used to wrap that way. I had seen a wrapping tool in Herter’s catalog back in the late forties that I copied. This Christmas my kids gave me a Flo-coat wrapping tool. You don’t need it but it is nice. Netcrafter has them in their cat cheap. The thing I found was a copy of L.A. Garcia’s book "Hand crafting a Graphite Rod". It has some very nice photos (examlpes) of tools that can be copied. Something worth making _or_ purchasing is a whip finisher. I would never use a razor blade to cut the line for fear pf nicking the graphite and setting up a stress point for a fracture. Garcia states that if you pull evenly on the finisher and the thread end, the thread will break and in the process the finisher will come out also. Instead of using the same thread to tug the whip under the wrap, I’d suggest some monofiliment of about 15 lb. Just some additional thoujghts, — Bob San Jose, Ca

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I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

I use a piece of about 10lb test mono tippet material to pull the thread through, less twisting of everything.  Once the end is pulled under the last several wraps and through pull on it quite hard and this will stretch it and lift the wraps a little and then carefully cut it close with an X-acto or razor blade.  Then the end will pull back under the wraps nicely leaving no bumps…  sometimes I nick the wraps but then I just redo them.  Beats the hell out of trying to singe ends off, I always end up with sooty thread when I try that.  Good luck build nice rods! Catch and Release Dave Wood Ravenna OH

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Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wooden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing.

Consider that a wooden dowel will behave differently wrt absorption of the epoxy/varnish and wrt the way the wraps slide (and are manipulated) on the blank. It is always better to practice on something as close to the target as possible; it is always better to practice on something than not to practice at all. — Office:     Denver, Colorado  1-303-595-2864 Home:       Bailey, Colorado

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Thought I’d add a couple of things. See below. snip Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs.

One of the keys to working with Flex-coat type finishes or other epoxies is consistent temperature.  I like to work in the 75 degree (F) range and keep an aquarium thermometer on my work surface.  A normal desk lamp will keep the temp consistent and can its height can be adjusted accordingly (if your epoxy starts smoking, your area is too hot )  Keep the light on throughout the curing process.   Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well.

So he uses the guitar string to cut the thread?  I think I’ll stick to a razor blade.  The blade should cut the thread with the slightest touch.  If it doesn’t, change blades.  On wraps in general, be consistent from guide to guide. Keep count of the number of turns.  If you take 10 turns before jumping on to the foot, do it on all the guides the same way.  Attention to detail is key. Relax, your rod’s going to fish fine when you’re done.   Ross

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 My question is:  instead of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

Here’s an idea I haven;t seen posted here before: instead of practicing on a cheap blank you probably won’t fish with anyway, buy a 3′ length of wodden dowling from your local hardware store (less than $1) and pretend it’s a blank.  Practice placing guides, wrapping them and finishing.   Then you’ll be ready for the real thing. The most difficult aspect of the process, IMO, is wrapping, especially if you are fussy about appearance.  Which leads to your last question: I haven’t heard of that technique before, but it sounds like it will result in frayed thread ends sticking out of the wraps.  A neater solution is to pull up on the thread end at a 90 degree angle to the blank and cut with a very sharp exacto knofe as close to the wraps as possible.  More often than not, the cut end is snaps back under the wrap.

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| Hello All: | | my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of | risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice | rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP | | Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   | what should I practice? | Andy OK I was in this position about 8 months ago.  Since then I have built two rods, a Loomis IM6 8′ 6wt and a IMX 9′ 9wt.  I dont think you need to practice on anything cheaper than what you want to fish with.  There is no magic to building a graphite rod, and you really don’t need any of the stands that are sold as wrapping stands.  I used the Morris book which explained everything well enough.  I used the dish method to hold the thread and a Law book for tensioning.  Wraps are comparatively easy to do and you can redo any of them if you feel they are not up to par untill you flex coat them.  I did a couple of wraps on a dowell to get the hang of it.  Finishing a wrap by pulling it under the last 1/2 dozen wraps with another piece of string then I cut it flush with a new X-acto blade.  I can’t tell the diference between my wraps and Loomis Sage et al and I’m pretty picky.  Things get a bit tricky if you want to include embedded trim rings but you probably won’t bother on your first attempt. The only thing I’ve had trouble with is a inlayed wrap of only one thread.         The only thing I havn’t done is apply the flex coat myself (the place I bought everything else will flex coat as a service).  I did buy some and I did a wrap on a section of a metal rod and coat it.  It came out OK not meny bubbles – and I wasn’t being careful in the mixing process – decided to let the store do it because hand turning it was a pain in the you-know-what and I didn’t want to buy a turner then.  I’m currently making a turner out of an old electric clock and I’ll do everything myself next time (I’ll still buy preformed grips). Good luck and have fun. PVM — / Paul V. Moruzzi                                                       | Patient Monitoring Division (PMD)                                     | | Hewlett Packard                           HP Telnet: 1-659-7850       | | 3000 Minuteman Road                           Voice: 1-508-659-7850   | | Andover, Ma.  01810-1099                        Fax: 1-508-685-5372   |

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later?

The first rod I built was on a cheap ($60) blank from a now defunct company. Everything worked fine, the glue jobs all held, etc., but there were some cosmetic touches that were beyond my capability at the time, so naturally I went on to build another and so on and so :- I don’t get too gaudy, in fact I don’t even use a trim band anymore, but I do like a single inlaid thread at the butt and at each ferrule. At first getting these right was maddening and very time consuming, but failure doesn’t wreck the blank, so you can start over again. By the time I bought a good blank I’d built 3 or 4 rods and it came out exactly like I wanted it to. Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice?

Placing the guides just takes time & trial and error, ditto on wrapping them. If you’re going to shape your own grip that would be where to practice. If using a pre-built grip practice reaming the hole while still keeping it centered. But the real thing to practice I think is mixing, applying and drying the varnish. Try it a couple times on an old rod just to make sure you get the results you expect before going ‘live’. If you plan on modifying the blank for any reason (by cutting it) you definitely want a couple cheap guinea pigs. Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method?

I just use a piece of tying thread as the loop, pull it until it is under only the last 2 or 3 wraps, then cut it with a little exacto knife. Don’t get too much thread under the wrap or you’ll get nubs and they never really burn off that well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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Hello All: A query for those of you versed in the fine art of rod building:  I am intending to build myself a rod on a Sage SP blank when they become available in March.  However, I have some trepidations as this would be my first foray into the rod building world.  My question is:  instead of risking a messy/lousy job on an expensive blank should I build a practice rod on a cheaper or blemished/second rod blank first?  I would like my SP rod to be without too many major errors, cosmetic or otherwise.  I intend to go slow and carefully.  Is that all I need to do or are there certain mistakes that I must learn first in order to avoid later? Follow up questions:  what is the most difficult aspect of the process?   what should I practice? Yet another inquiry:  what is your preferred method of finishing (tying off) the wraps?  Do most folks use the method Garcia talks about in his book (pulling the thread underneath the wraps with a loop of guitar string or similar, and then while the thread is still under the wraps pulling the thread and loop in opposite directions until the thread breaks)?  Or is there a more preferred method? Thanks for any info you can share. Andy

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