Question:

Being a bit sceptical of books and such-like I would like some proven web pages on rod-building. I am a complete novice (idiot) and need something simple. Preferably with pictures….

The Virtual Fly Shop www.virtualflyshop.com has a good basic rodbuilding section that can guide you through the process, and the Custom Rod Builders Guild www.rodguild.com also has a message board for the questions that will inevitably pop up. Joe F.

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That’s right! I completely forgot about that. So the (idiot) really applies. Ari – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being a bit sceptical of books and such-like I would like some proven web pages on rod-building. I am a complete novice (idiot) and need something simple. Preferably with pictures…. The Virtual Fly Shop www.virtualflyshop.com has a good basic rodbuilding section that can guide you through the process, and the Custom Rod Builders Guild www.rodguild.com also has a message board for the questions that will inevitably pop up. Joe F.

Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

Response:

Being a bit sceptical of books and such-like I would like some proven web pages on rod-building. I am a complete novice (idiot) and need something simple. Preferably with pictures…. Thanks guys. Ari Ari Bert                                        Gaelle Bert +27 (0) 83 232 9903                             +27 (0) 83 236 5308 Flyfishing Corner +27 (0) 11 447 7230                             Shop 94, Admirals Court +27 (0) 11 882 8537 (fax)                       Cnr Craddock & Tyrwhitt www.troutfishing.co.za                                Street, Rosebank P.O.Box 79067 Senderwood 2145 South Africa

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Question:

Hi there, Flyfisherman here from West Springfield.  I do a little tying as well….fish the Westfield mostly because it is so handy but would be interested in venturing to other rivers. Paul

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Paul, Western Mass Fly Fishermen meet the third Monday of each month (Sept – May) at the Polish American Citizen’s Club on East Street in Ludlow. Meetings start with a tying demo at 7:00 PM. Free tying classes start in January and last 8 weeks. They are held on Thursday nights. Watch this NG for the starting date. There are several members from West Side and Feeding Hills, and the greater Springfield area. You could call me at 413-283-5543 if you need more info. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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i recently got in to fly fishing and tying not a pro yet butt working on it! always selling  cards, for a list of your fav team go to paul

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Paul: If you want to meet some local fly fishers, come to the TU meeting on January 11 at 7PM at the Elks Lodge in West Spfld (on Morgan Road). We’re having our annual fly tying Extravaganza in January – there will be several great local tyers plus a couple of supply vendors.  We will be running tying classes starting in a couple of weeks.  Also, the next Monday is the Western Mass Fly Fishers meeting in Ludlow.  Maybe George Adams will pipe in with directions.  They also run tying classes every winter (for free – a super deal).  Lots of good people in both groups. Hope to see you there. –Stan

i recently got in to fly fishing and tying not a pro yet butt working on it!

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Question:

Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

Hi All,  Like so many other things in life, short/light rods are not for everyone. Here in Northern California, we have some ( hundred?  thousands? ) small streams that have ‘tons’ of fish under 10 inches. Today (things might change in week or so) I would personally choose to fish them with a Sage 8′2"#2 SPL or an 8′#2 Winston or some other little beauty. Think of fishing as fun. Well, what I would like to use really doesn’t count in the big picture. I think this is a problem with everything in life. Why should anyone expect everyone else to agree with them unless they think they know the answers to life??? Why are we so upset when someone else wants to do it a different way?  I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" No, you suggest that is a very short rod that is very specialized. Then you would find out, as I have so many times, that this person has several short rods that are all slightly longer than 6′ and he loves them. Get the picture? I think it is sad that there are fly fisherman that try to shove their person beliefs down everyone else throat. Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have

all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out.

My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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<wisdom snipped I would have been out of business years ago if every time a guy came in the store and wanted to buy a 6′ fly rod I said, " Well, what kind of idiot would even think of using a 6′ fly rod? Are you out of your mind?" <snip

Didn’t Lee Wulff often fish a 6′6" fiberglass Garcia for Atlantic Salmon? With enough time on the water, I may one day be 1/10th the idiot he was. Mu Young Lee    Ann Arbor, MI  USA

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Why would they think they have the only answers and even the right answers? I am ready to have someone give me info that will change my mind or hopefully reinforce ideas that I have been forming for my lifetime. If you already have all the right answers then your learning is over. God might as well take you up to sit by his side so you can now straighten him out. My nomination for ROFF post of the year. How true Mr. Kiene.

I would agree completely, Wayne, except that I think I said that before about one of Bill’s posts.  Or was it Mike Conner?  Or maybe Willi…… or perhaps Skeeter….?  Who the hell knows, but this was a great one. Mark Faulkner

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I got one 3 years ago for fishing brushy creeks and it worked perfectly for casting under the canopy. On trips to the Klamath Basin and the San Juan River I took it along for dry fly fishing and found the 3-weight line gave me a decided advantage in delicate presentations; I had no trouble with rainbows to 22". Needless to say, it’s useless for fishing strike indicator situations such as Lee’s Ferry, but it’s not a problem to cast 60′.

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How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less.

I agree that different gear choices mean different perspectives.  Guys who fish mainly in the salt, for instance, probaby have little appreciation for the delicate feel of a nice 3-wt.  But I disagree about the brush and bushwacking. Being in Montana, I have bigger rods, 5-6 wts., natch, but I take my little rod when I am going to bushwack.  I keep it in its tube, which is smaller and easier to lash onto a backpack or my hip pack (for daytrips) and hike up into the little tribs, or the smaller wilderness streams, where an 18-inch cutt is liable to be the biggest fish I’m going to meet.  In fact, I primarily use my three weight on days when I’m probably not going to see another soul.

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OK, Ok, Ok Ill try someones 3 weight this summer. At least once. By the way, some of this reminds me of an old Lee Wulff article. Sorry but I tried a 1 and a 2 weight already. Never a "0." I felt like I had crossed over into weenie world and the next stop was an operating table in Denmark. Felt like I was play fishing. I know, I know. Adapt! I think Id rather head North and die in a snowbank. Daytripper has a point about the number of rods the average fisher has, and all that. Except for the SPL, mine are well worn vets. And you are right, I would not consider paying big bucks for a lite rod to target tiny fish. I catch enough of those already, thank you. But overall parsimony probably does play a role. If I need a new rod its an 8 or 10 weight for Salmon. Several folks made mention of the small trout opportunities on the Olympic Penn.. Yes indeed there are many small fish and small rivers. And I fish plenty of both. But thats not what I target on the Penninsula. Its taken me years to learn how to fish these rivers and I really know only a handful. There are decent size Cuts and bows in some of these small rivers much of the year.  And there are times when there are very large fish in these very small rivers.  You do not want to hook a Chum, Steelhead or King with one of these rods.  I would even go so far as to warn against fishing a 3 weight or less if there are any Pinks around. I can’t see a 1 or 2 weight in brushy water surviving that first run. One last item: By "runty brookies" I was not putting down the whole of the Squaretail Nation. Or the value of any fish less than 10 inches. Im referring to high lakes that are full of 2-5 inch malnorished fish. OK? (So now the Email death threats should stop?) Happy Easter Dave Snedeker

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up. Im usually in the brush, and I almost never see others fishing who are not in my party. I do not hike into the high lakes anymore because most just have runty brookies by the thousands and its not worth it. To Charlie Machete? Hell no, see thats another point in favor of the Sage. You don’t have to carry a machete or a wading staff either. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,     – Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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David, Most of the fishing that I have been doing for the last several years involves "bushwhacking" to get to small streams in VA, PA and NY. I avoid fishing anywhere near other fisherman – not a misanthrope, mind you, I just don’t want anyone to see me when I blow an easy cast, or trip over a rock. These streams are small and tight enough that 7′ to 7 1/2′ is about all I can get away with. Even then, I’m on my knees a lot. I find it easy to subdue the brookies and browns that I regularly find with these small rods. They aren’t sick fish, just not big. A 9" brookie from some of these streams is a nice fish. Still, the occasional 14" brown is no problem when he/she comes along. And these fish are landed and released quickly and in apparently good condition. Still, I would not go lighter than this. BTW, my wife and I had several superb days on the Firehole in October, casting Baetis imitations to rising trout in the wind with Winston 8 1/2" 3 wts. Lots of fish hooked, quickly landed and released in good condition. Of course, other’s mileage may vary… -Doc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker

I agree that a 1 or 2 is awfully light but I use a 9′ 3 wgt with a Cortland Clear Creek line quite often especially during low water conditions.  It presents small dries and nymphs with alot of delicacy. A 9′ rod, even a 3 wgt, can put alot of pressure on a fish, far more pressure than a 5X or lighter tippet can hold. Willi

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Ken Yes I do fish the small Olympic streams that flow into the Hood Canal. In particular the Big and the Little Quillcene. I carry one, strung 3 piece 9ft rod. When you are under the canopy, with brush all over, the length is an asset for dibbling, roll casts and when you have an ally to shoot straight up or down into stairstep pools (like on the Graywolf.) In the Skokomish and in the bigger pools, and when you have a gravel bar to work off of, its an asset in dealing with the wind which is always present here. Ditto if you also fish the lower streachs just before the salt.  Overall the longer rod makes it easier to get it out of the trees when you do get hung up.

There appear to be two mindsets on fishing in tight quarters.  One says go with a longer rod for "dibbling" and roll casts, the other says to go with a shorter rod to avoid getting caught up on trees, plants, etc. I’ll agree with the roll casts being easier with the longer rod, but I don’t find an extra foot or so to be of much help with "dibbling". I prefer the shorter rods (but not too short) since generally they are small enough to sort of flip the fly out there without getting hung up on stuff.  I’ve got a 7′9" 2wt that’s perfect for those tight places on small streams. It all comes down to personal preference. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks.

I’ve lived in Colorado, the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, and Massachusetts. All three regions provide plenty of streams where a small rod is perfectly suited and can be more fun than a 9′/5W. I don’t see many people using small, light rods either, even on streams that can be jumped. But I chalk that up to most people not having invested in a broad arsenal. When a flyfisher collects a set of rods, which rod purchased is the small, light one? Second? Third? Fourth? And if the average flyfisher only has one or two fly rods, is one of them a small lightweight? I’ve fished with a lot of people, young and old, over the years, and I’d guess only one in five owns a short three weight or lighter rod. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die.

Your presumption is that you can’t fight a decent size fish with a small, light rod, but I don’t agree. I’ve caught a few fish (eg: a 22" rainbow) on my little Winston 2wt that would put a heck of a bend in a six weight, but the fish were all caught in cold water, and were landed quick enough to avoid over stress (remember that God gave *us* the big brains to figure out how to deal with stuff like this ;^) How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Yikes! You left out plagues and locusts! ;^) But it just ain’t so. Cripes, I’ve damn near gotten looking for short cuts to water, but I don’t endanger my rods when thrashing through the brush. I at least keep my rod in its sock if I’m hiking any distance. Otherwise, it’s a lot easy to pick your way along the stream with a short rod than a nine footer! Besides that…The tip on one of my 10′ long saltwater rods is only 1/64" larger in diameter than the tip of my little Winston, and it’d probably snap even easier. I wouldn’t want to try poking through the bush with that! /daytripper

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

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what are your thoughts on this rod?

  Love it.  Buy it.  Treat it like you wished your wife treated you.

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew

    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I sold mine and went to the 8 foot 4 weight because the wind always blows like crazy when I go.

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Andrew asked:what are your thoughts on this rod? As I always say you can’t have too many good 3-Weights. The only places I think it would be out of place would be in a float tube or a West Texas Wind. Big Dale

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Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line.

If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

Response:

I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical. Same goes for lite double taper lines. Regional conditions and opportunities Im sure have a lot to do with it. Although when Ive fished backeast I have not noticed folks using particularly short, lite sticks. I think this kind of gear difference must affect our differing perceptions of the sport and the resiliance of the resource.  For example, someone who uses this lite gear and is still inadvertantly killing fish, must be dealing with some pretty small or pretty sick fish. I do catch lots of small fish myself, but I get them in quick, do not play them, and release them quick. If you are using a 1 weight you are going to have to play that same tiny fish. You will get more "sport" from the fish, but alot more WILL die. How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over. Im just trying to understand how these things might be related to different perceptions of the sport. My own view of the resource and the sport is that both are more robust than the views of many of the brothers that are reflected in this NG.  I wonder how much gear choice affects the experiences that shape these different views of the sport? Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi guys, what are your thoughts on this rod? ANdrew    i have one, and it is a beautifully finished pleasure to fish.  but don’t expect to lay out a bunch of line. If that’s the case, go for Winston’s 7.5′ 2wt. Like everything the Winston people produce, it’s a gorgeous piece of workmanship. PLUS I can throw an entire, elderly SA DT2F with mine ;^) /daytripper

Response:

How the hell do these lite sticks survive in the brush?  It seems to me that a lot more care is required when you bushwack. Consequently, you bushwack less. As a result you have to fish with the crowd in more open degraded conditions. Consequently you are fishing hatchery fish more often. Consequently wild fish are a thing of the past for you.  And you might become certain that the same is true all over.

Wow, lost me on the logic in that one.  I "bushwack" my way to small streams on a regular basis and then use lighter rods.  Haven’t encountered much that has worried me about the safety of my rods.  I’m far more worried about slipping on a rock and breaking a rod than trompsing through the woods and breaking a rod.  There’s one spot I regularly frequent which required climbing down a 75ft sheer bank, the rods stay in their tubes for that one, although I’m sure a fall there would break an 8wt as well as a 2wt. Oh well, later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

Response:

I am not surprised, but am made more aware of the inherent differences in the group when I think about all this very light gear folks use: even some of the Montanans. I cannot conceive of finding a place hereabouts where fishing with a 1 or 2 weight for a whole day would be practical.

Isn’t Bainbridge Island near the coast range (Olympics up there)? Down here in Oregon, there are tons of small streams in the coast mountains that a 2wt is great on.  Just gotta look around, there’s all sorts of stuff around the PNW if you’re willing to hike to it. Later,      - Ken — "Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish  they are after."             – Henry David Thoreau

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Question:

ya know…spam on rye ain’t half bad but i prefer baloney. –Wataugan Walt

Response:

Guy Well put. Peter        Merry Christmas

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Wataugan Walt: <<ya know…spam on rye ain’t half bad but i prefer baloney. Used to eat it on crackers in the Panama jungle.  Wasn’t bad. Then I was introduced to Vienna Sausage (pronounced – V eye-enna). Now, *that* is some bad shit.   They should call Spam (the unwanted postings/mail) Vienna Sausage.  It would have a helluva lot more meaning.  d;0) Dave L.

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Bit pointless discussing the definition of spam on this NG. However I dont think you will find many who will agree with you especially as far as Bill Kiene is concerned.  And even if he did post a discreet ad, which is a moot point in any case, I prefer that  to someone posting spurious complaints. I may not be able to define spam very accurately, and superfluous anyway as Guy already did a great job of doing so, but I certainly can recognise bullshit when I see it. I liked the bits about Baloney and Vienna sausage as well. I just wish you guys wouldnt choose such hard words to rhyme is all !! Vienna sausage, baloney or spam, to define is a terrible jam, bullshit is easy, it makes you feel queasy, and puts you in need of a dram. So you reckon Bill placed an ad, and you think that that is quite bad, but he gave us some news, and interesting views, complaining at that is just sad. Now Bill is cleverer than most, he just ignored your daft post, he wasnt offended, and was stoutly defended, by the stalwart Roffian host. Mr. Nospam you better cop out, Bill has got far more clout, You never will win, complaining at him, so be a nice guy, leave it out ! Write us a post about flies, perhaps your favourite ties ? or rods reels or lines, but please no more whines, about where to get the best buys. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Wataugan Walt: <<ya know…spam on rye ain’t half bad but i prefer baloney. Used to eat it on crackers in the Panama jungle.  Wasn’t bad. Then I was introduced to Vienna Sausage (pronounced – V eye-enna). Now, *that* is some bad shit.   They should call Spam (the unwanted postings/mail) Vienna Sausage.  It would have a helluva lot more meaning.  d;0) Dave L.

Vienna weenies are typically serverd at wedding receptions here in GA, but then it’s all family<g. — Charlie…

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Hi: I, too, want to join the list of those who have very nicely differentiated between crap and quality.  Spam is crap, Bill Kiene is quality.  Like almost all of you, I first got to know Bill through his helpful answers on the ng.  In fact, I would always tell my friends that although Bill made no bones about his owning a flyshop, he was a great resource without promoting his business.  Anyway, with the costs involved in our sport, who minds getting an occasional heads-up about how to save money? Furthermore, when I couldn’t get my regular trip to Belize going for next year, and decided to go to heaven (read Christmas Island), I called Bill and signed up for one of his trips.  Why?  Although I live in NJ, I could have just contacted Frontier. But I wanted to say thanks to Bill for all his help. Adam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill Kiene is an unqualified asset to ROFF. : Sniff, sniff.  Yup, smells like spam. : : Blech. JonCook. — Fishermen kill fish. This is who we are.

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Vienna weenies are typically serverd at wedding receptions here in GA, but then it’s all family<g. — Charlie…

ahh, a good ole cracker weddin’ with fiddles and some paint removin’ –Wataugan Walt

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Just I’d add my 2 cents worth about Bill Kiene and his shop. I’m a sales rep in the fly fishing industry and call on Bill’s shop in Sacramento.  Bill’s shop is definitely in the top 3 shops in the CA,AZ,NV territory.  On top of that, he is one of the most, if not THE most enjoyable people to deal with.  I’m sure he would welcome your calls for help or advice. Regards, Wes Chormicle

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Just I’d add my 2 cents worth about Bill Kiene and his shop.

I’ll just say that I think Bill is one of the top five posters on this site. His advice is always balanced and on the mark. He has never given up on this ng despite the flame wars and the infinite c&r debate; in his quiet determined way he just continued to dispense solid information. Ralph H

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just I’d add my 2 cents worth about Bill Kiene and his shop. I’ll just say that I think Bill is one of the top five posters on this site. His advice is always balanced and on the mark. He has never given up on this ng despite the flame wars and the infinite c&r debate; in his quiet determined way he just continued to dispense solid information. Ralph H

My sentiments also….. –Walt

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As I have mentioned in previous posts, lots of fly fishing products have been altered or discontinued. This is a great time to get that new rod, reel, waders, pontoon boat, etc that you have been looking for. Much of this equipment is great stuff at great prices. Check you local fly tackle retailer or the internet for bargains. We have just purchased a ‘ton’ of discontinued fly rods from the Powell Rod Company. These are all ‘98 model rods that are being replaced by total redesigned new generation 1999 fly rods at the new Powell Rod plant in Sacramento, CA. Take a look at out web site for a complete list of these great rods at 50% off of retail prices. (www.kiene.com) Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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You may also want to check the following website www.bennettspring.com . Tight Lines Jerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I have mentioned in previous posts, lots of fly fishing products have been altered or discontinued. This is a great time to get that new rod, reel, waders, pontoon boat, etc that you have been looking for. Much of this equipment is great stuff at great prices. Check you local fly tackle retailer or the internet for bargains. We have just purchased a ‘ton’ of discontinued fly rods from the Powell Rod Company. These are all ‘98 model rods that are being replaced by total redesigned new generation 1999 fly rods at the new Powell Rod plant in Sacramento, CA. Take a look at out web site for a complete list of these great rods at 50% off of retail prices. (www.kiene.com) Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Sniff, sniff.  Yup, smells like spam. Blech.

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Sniff, sniff.  Yup, smells like spam. Blech.

Bill Kiene is a frequent and very knowledgeable contributor to ROFF. I always read his posts because they are likely to contain something very interesting. I’ve been to his shop in Sacramento. It’s a very good shop, and his employees were quite helpful. I don’t think this rises to the level of spam. Bill made a suggestion that now is the time to look for cheap discontinued equipment, wherever you like to shop. He clearly know what he’s talking about. That’s a suggestion many people can take advantage of. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Bill Kiene is a frequent and very knowledgeable contributor to ROFF. I always read his posts because they are likely to contain something very interesting. I’ve been to his shop in Sacramento. It’s a very good shop, and his employees were quite helpful. I don’t think this rises to the level of spam. Bill made a suggestion that now is the time to look for cheap discontinued equipment, wherever you like to shop. He clearly know what he’s talking about. That’s a suggestion many people can take advantage of.

I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve never been to Bill’s shop (obviously, living on another continent), but I value his contributions to ROFF, and he is definitely not spamming. On a side note, I think Bill does an excellent job of combining his business with usenet. Posting insightful articles combined with subtle and relevant only mention of his business, yet never attempting to hide the fact that he runs a flyfishing busniess, and taking great care to address the subject at hand and not simply advertising, is the only way to do it. Usenet presence is, IMO, also a reasonable accurate predictor of customer satisfaction. If Bill ripped people off for a living, it’ll be all over ROFF. I’d be happy to do business with Bill. Btw, my local dealer here in Norway has had a 50% discount on 1998 Powell rods for a few months now. Still don’t want one of those soft sticks  :-) — Christian Figenschou – http://figen.com

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I third that notion — IMHO, Bill Kiene is a very valuable resource for this NG.  I know he’s answered a ton of my questions. I always look forward to reading his posts. Sid in Seattle

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Sniff, sniff.  Yup, smells like spam.

Bill Kiene is a valuable contributor to ROFF. I read his excellent posts carefully as he obviously knows exactly what he is talking about and how to explain it. His insights into some products and his recommendations are of considerable value, and he is as unbiased about various products as it is possible to be as far as I can see. It is unlikely that I will ever visit his shop, it is a bit too far away, which is a shame, as I assume from his posts that it must be quite excellent.  He has never made a secret of the fact that he runs a fly fishing related business, and the little bit of advertising he does is always discrete and his posts always on topic.  I do not think many on ROFF would consider this SPAM.  Just as a matter of interest Mr.Nospam, when can we expect a valuable contribution on ROFF from you ? Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Sniff, sniff.  Yup, smells like spam.

I too have found Mr. Kiene’s posts to be accurate, to the point, and informative. Few of us will ever patronize his shop, and if he occasionally mentions his business on ROFF, I have absolutely no problem with it. George Adams

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Bill Kiene is a valuable contributor to ROFF.

I’ll add my voice to the chorus too Mike. I look for Bill’s posts. He’s worth reading. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach, Florida "The beach? Only poor people go to the beach!  The truly impoverished own boats." – Capt. Gary to Ms. Dawn

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I agree wholeheartedly!!!! Bill keane has been of great help to newbies and oldies alike and I feel that he is simply passing on information and not trying to sell a product here people might want to be looking for new and then in the caseof us newbies who dont even have a rod what’s wrong with some advice from a seasoned store owner with some experience?? Keep it up Bill I am on your side. Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill Kiene is a frequent and very knowledgeable contributor to ROFF. I always read his posts because they are likely to contain something very interesting. I’ve been to his shop in Sacramento. It’s a very good shop, and his employees were quite helpful. I don’t think this rises to the level of spam. Bill made a suggestion that now is the time to look for cheap discontinued equipment, wherever you like to shop. He clearly know what he’s talking about. That’s a suggestion many people can take advantage of. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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I just wanted to add that my friend bought me a Redington that I could have never of afforded when it Florida with a "fall closeout"deal. The same rod selling in Canada I could have never afforded believe me and yet when he purchased it as a gift in US dollars it was a steal even with the exchange rate! Nope be glad to hear of close out deals especially with people like Bill Pierre

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Nope.  He ran an ad.  It was spam. Incidentally a friend of mine bought one of Kiene’s discontinued "new" rods and it came with a scratched up blank and the wrong tube/sock. So be careful and ask for all the details before buying.  You get what you pay for and there isn’t always full disclosure.  Not just Bill’s shop but I’ve heard horror stories from some of the other online discounters too.  If Bill wants to post here and help folks out, that’s admirable but to sneak in a commercial ad when they aren’t allowed only damages his reputation IMHO.  Kind of like the Bill Clinton excuse.  As long as you are a good President it’s ok to break the law when it suits you. Well that’s why we have a free country.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  You don’t have to agree.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope.  He ran an ad.  It was spam. Incidentally a friend of mine bought one of Kiene’s discontinued "new" rods and it came with a scratched up blank and the wrong tube/sock. So be careful and ask for all the details before buying.  You get what you pay for and there isn’t always full disclosure.  Not just Bill’s shop but I’ve heard horror stories from some of the other online discounters too.  If Bill wants to post here and help folks out, that’s admirable but to sneak in a commercial ad when they aren’t allowed only damages his reputation IMHO.  Kind of like the Bill Clinton excuse.  As long as you are a good President it’s ok to break the law when it suits you. Well that’s why we have a free country.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  You don’t have to agree.

Well, my opinion is that your opinion sucks. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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Sorry, not only are you in the minority, you don’t seem to know the definition of spam: "There are two main types of spam, and they have different effects on Internet users. Cancellable Usenet spam is a single message sent to 20 or more Usenet newsgroups. (Through longexperience, Usenet users have found that any message posted to so many newsgroups is often not relevant to most or all of them.) Usenet spam is aimed at "lurkers", people who read newsgroups but rarely or never post and give their address away. Usenet spam robs users of the utility of the newsgroups by overwhelming them with a barrage of advertising or other irrelevant posts. Furthermore, Usenet spam subverts the ability of system administrators and owners to manage the topics they accept on their systems. Email spam targets individual users with direct mail messages. Email spam lists are often created by scanning Usenet postings, stealing Internet mailing lists, or searching the Web for addresses. Email spams typically cost users money out-of-pocket to receive. Many people – anyone with measured phone service – read or receive their mail while the meter is running, so to speak. Spam costs them additional money. On top of that, it costs money for ISPs and online services to transmit spam, and these costs are transmitted directly to subscribers. http://spam.abuse.net/whatisspam.html Nope.  He ran an ad.  It was spam. Incidentally a friend of mine bought one of Kiene’s discontinued "new" rods and it came with a scratched up blank and the wrong tube/sock.

Did you give the shop an opportunity to correct the problem? So be careful and ask for all the details before buying.  You get what you pay for and there isn’t always full disclosure.  Not just Bill’s shop but I’ve heard horror stories from some of the other online discounters

I don’t think you can call Kiene’s and ‘online discounter’ too.  If Bill wants to post here and help folks out, that’s admirable but to sneak in a commercial ad when they aren’t allowed only damages

Please quote the document which says that such posts are not allowed opinion.  You don’t have to agree.

You’re right.

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Question:

Can anyone tell me how the Yakima is fishing right now. Any info on its condition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Last I heard (Last Saturday) it was very slow fishing. It won’t be long before the yellow stones are out though so fishing should pick up soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me how the Yakima is fishing right now. Any info on its condition would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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If you’re lucky you may find a great PMD hatch. Size 18 to 20 compara duns would then work great. Most fish would be a few inches from bank where mayflies congregate in the bushes. If you are unlucky and the river is as high as I think it will be a flashy bead head nymph under a royal wulff may do the trick. Check with Red’s Fly shop in the canyon for up to date info. Good luck Herb

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I’m heading out to the Yakima in about a week and a half.  Can anyone out there give me some information on the fishing conditions, hatches etc. Thanks in advance. RRS

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I’m heading out to the Yakima in about a week and a half.  Can anyone out there give me some information on the fishing conditions, hatches etc. Thanks in advance. RRS

It’s blown and cold right now.  Might be better soon. Call Cooper’s FLy Shop in Ellensburg, WA, 509 area code, for up to date data.  Creekside in Issaquah will have reasonable info, but is further from the river. they’re at 206-392-3800.

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I fished this river last Thursday (the 23rd) and I’m going again this coming Saturday. The river had just blown out and was pretty murky, however I did catch one fish, and they WERE actually out feeding, on what I do not know… I couldn’t make out any discernable hatch. But I caught my fish with a #12 Royal Humpy. They weren’t eating the stones I threw at them. Hopefully the river will be back down to more fishable access by Saturday, otherwise i’ll be doing a lot of hiking… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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I was there last saturday. The water was in good shape but the fishing was VERY tough. The fishing last friday was said to have been pretty good. I don’t know how sunday was though. With the warm weather we have been having I would expect the water to be iffy. You might check the water levels before you head over. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody been to the Yakima in the last couple of days?  This is my first chance this year.  I’m planning to head up tomorrow.  I’m a wader so hope the flow isn’t up too far yet. BARRY

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Question:

I’m investigating a position in Baker, Oregon and have been told by the recruiter that the flyfishing is "the best in the country".  I don’t know if anyone in Last Chance, ID or Steamboat, OR or Flaming Gorge, UT would disagree but I’d love to hear from someone who has fished in the creeks, rivers and lakes around Baker.  You can e-mail me at Ken

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Ken, All fishing in Oregon is highly over rated.  The population has grown so fast that most streams and lakes are depleted except for the odd truckload of planters dumped  in every now and then to satisfy the bloodlust of recently arrived new Oregonians.  Recruiters are frequently reduced to lying in order to seduce those in search of a lifestiyle and environment that disappeared long ago.  The real action is in Colorado where guys like Moe Skeeter and Walleye Miller have taken steps to insure that fish are plentiful and anglers are few. I’m investigating a position in Baker, Oregon and have been told by the recruiter that the flyfishing is "the best in the country".  I don’t know if anyone in Last Chance, ID or Steamboat, OR or Flaming Gorge, UT would disagree but I’d love to hear from someone who has fished in the creeks, rivers and lakes around Baker.  You can e-mail me at Ken

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tomn McGuane

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Question:

Fish the headwaters of the North Platte on over ten miles of private streams leased by Little Grizzly Creek Ranch.  Outstanding accommodations, gourmet meals guides, hosted bar.  Limited to twelve persons.  Accommodations and environment so nice that even the non-fishing wife has a good time.  Eighteen miles East of Steamboat Springs. Ideal for fishingcouples.  Fishing from July 1 through  Oct. 10th. Browns, brookies, rainbows, cutthroats, cutbows.  All small stream,  walk/wade.  For free brochure, e-mailregular address to

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Fish the headwaters of the North Platte on over ten miles of private streams leased by Little Grizzly Creek Ranch.  Outstanding accommodations, gourmet meals guides, hosted bar.  Limited to twelve persons.  Accommodations and environment so nice that even the non-fishing wife has a good time.  Eighteen miles East of Steamboat Springs. Ideal for fishingcouples.  Fishing from July 1 through Oct. 10th. Browns, brookies, rainbows, cutthroats, cutbows.  All small stream, walk/wade.  For free brochure, e-mailregular address to

      Don’t tell Tim bet he will think its a kill’em all and let  God sort’em out kind of place.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fish the headwaters of the North Platte on over ten miles of private streams leased by Little Grizzly Creek Ranch.  Outstanding accommodations, gourmet meals guides, hosted bar.  Limited to twelve persons.  Accommodations and environment so nice that even the non-fishing wife has a good time.  Eighteen miles East of Steamboat Springs. Ideal for fishingcouples.  Fishing from July 1 through Oct. 10th. Browns, brookies, rainbows, cutthroats, cutbows.  All small stream, walk/wade.  For free brochure, e-mailregular address to       Don’t tell Tim bet he will think its a kill’em all and let  God sort’em out kind of place.

No, but it has taken a great deal of restraint not to call a Spam a Spam. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

i’ve asked about fishing in colorado during the first week of april, and i’ve gotten mixed responses.  some say i’ll need an ice pick, others say there will be good fishing.  i’m confused. i’ll be staying in winter park, but would be willing to drive 1.5-2 hours to get  to a fishable locale.  i’m new to fly fishing, so i probably will be practicing my casting more than catching fish, but who knows?  any tips would be appreciated. anyone in colorado up for some fishing? (or teaching?) thanks, narayan — Narayan Nayar

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Dear Novice, I am an avid flyfisherman in Colorado and fish all season.  Depending on where you go you may encounter ice or clear, cold water.  The South Platte River, although heavily fished, can be fished all year around.  The area around Deckers is the most popular and has "Gold Medal" water.  You can pull out a 10lb rainbow in some of the deeper Holes (Gilpen Trail) or below Cheesman Dam.  Another place to fish is the Blue River in Silverthorne.  Some of the biggest fish are right below the Dam and in back of the outlet stores.  Word has it that their are 15lb Rainbows that are in their.  They feed on Miasis (sp?) Shrimp.  These are all within about 2 hrs or less.  One thing to remember is that the weather can be either beautiful and 50 degrees, or snowing 6-12 inches (especially in Summit county). Those are two places that you can try.  They are popular, but there are many fishing stores around to help you with fly selection and equipment.

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Question:

You should try and find someone that sell ST. Croix rods There well made and not that expencive. I’ve had a sage and orvis rods and personally think    the ST. Croix to be just as good, also less money. and they have a good  gaurentee on there rods.

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I’m in the market for a new fly rod. I’m an experienced (3-years) fly fisherman fishing mainly on small to medium rivers in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana for ‘bows, cutts and browns, and on lakes though I don’t have a float tube yet, just a canoe. I hear good things about Sage and Loomis. Any feedback or suggestions. I’m trying to stay below $250

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Question:

I saw in another post that there is a fly fishing digest on he net.  Does anyone know how to subscribe to this or whaever it takes to find it. sounds real interesting.  please post any info on this fly fishing digest. thanks ken fritts

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I saw in another post that there is a fly fishing digest on he net.  Does anyone know how to subscribe to this or whaever it takes to find it. sounds real interesting.  please post any info on this fly fishing digest. thanks

Please let me know too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -ken fritts

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