Question:

Does anybody have experience using sink-tip lines and weighted leaders?  Is there a difference?  I’m contemplating trying one or both to get down to the deeper holes yet still have natural nymph action. I don’t like rocks with fur and feathers attached.

I wouldn’t use a sink tip or a fast sink leader for deep nymphing, except on stillwater. Try using a really long tippet (NOT a tapered leader) below the indicator, assuming you use one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I wouldn’t use a sink tip or a fast sink leader for deep nymphing, except on stillwater. Try using a really long tippet (NOT a tapered leader) below the indicator, assuming you use one.

Charlie Brooks caught lots of big trout by deep nymphing with a full-sinking line. OTOH, he mentioned in one of his books that the technique isn’t very popular, even among those who have learned it well, because most fishermen don’t find it all that enjoyable. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I wouldn’t use a sink tip or a fast sink leader for deep nymphing, except on stillwater. Try using a really long tippet (NOT a tapered leader) below the indicator, assuming you use one. Charlie Brooks caught lots of big trout by deep nymphing with a full-sinking line. OTOH, he mentioned in one of his books that the technique isn’t very popular, even among those who have learned it well, because most fishermen don’t find it all that enjoyable.

My problem with it isn’t that it’s not enjoyable, Rusty. I’ll take an occasional big fish over "enjoyment" any time. My problem is that it’s much harder, if not impossible, to get a drag-free drift in moving water with a sink tip. In stillwater you usually want to put action on the nymph, so it’s not a problem. It seems to me like the best approach, if you want a drag free drift, is to use tippet all the way from the top to the bottom. BTW, I don’t claim to be any good at getting drag free drifts. I’m still learning, and probably always will be. P.S. I loved your retort to Phillipo. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Does anybody have experience using sink-tip lines and weighted leaders?  Is there a difference?  I’m contemplating trying one or both to get down to the deeper holes yet still have natural nymph action. I don’t like rocks with fur and feathers attached.

Response:

Jim Benenson writes: Does anybody have experience using sink-tip lines and weighted leaders?  Is there a difference?  I’m contemplating trying one or both to get down to the deeper holes yet still have natural nymph action. I don’t like rocks with fur and feathers attached.

Either will get you down to the deeper holes, but the sink tip line will be more difficult to mend.  I generally use a 9 foot leader/tippet and split shot to get the nymph down.  However, if you are talking deeper runs, a 12 foot leader might be a better choice.  I try to keep as much line off (or in) the water as possible when nymphing – it gives a better drift and makes strikes easier to see.   Dave

Response:

Does anybody have experience using sink-tip lines and weighted leaders?  Is there a difference?  I’m contemplating trying one or both to get down to the deeper holes yet still have natural nymph action. I don’t like rocks with fur and feathers attached.

I think that it’s difficult to get a dead drift, if that’s what you’re after, in a stream or river using a sinking line.  A sinking line is going to put lots of drag on the fly which can be useful for fishing streamers or in a FEW nymphing situations, but overall weight on the leader works better. Willi

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Question:

are there any schools that teach fishing with conventional tackle instead of pure flyrod?

Response:

are there any schools that teach fishing with conventional tackle instead of pure flyrod?

I don’t know of any. I think that is why the fly fishing industry is doing so well.  There are lots of videos, books and schools on the sport of fly fishing. Most of the conventional tackle is sold by self service mass merchandizers like Walmart and Kmart. It is hard to get any service, help or fishing info from those stores. I have watched the tackle business change for the last 31 years that I have been involved in it. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

These references to the periodic cicada have me excited for the next time I stumble on the emergence of a cicada "brood".  There are two types of periodic cicadas (as opposed to the few annual cicadas that emerge each year), the 17 year and the 13 year cicadas.  I encountered one of them in 1991 in central PA.  An extraordinary number of cicadas filled the stream valley in late may.  The zip zip sound of the few annual cicadas in the back yard was replaced by a constant whirrring sound as literally millions emerged.  Those that fell onto the water dissapeared in a swirl as the largest of the trout (those only brought to the surface by the Green Drakes) sucked them under with no problem.  Our hearts pounded as we tried our largest floating flies to attract them.  In the end our imitations were not good enough, but my new spun deer hair bodied flies with red squirrel tail wings will always be somewhere in my fly box – just in case….   As for emergence throughout the Eastern U.S., I believe that each individual brood (covering some limited geography) has its own cycle.  My fishing buddy and I are in the process of writing to Penn State University to learn whether a brood chart is available for PA. Jeff Shafer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern   U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged   insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it   was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly   patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?  They do have a tendency to fall in the water.  I’ve seen trout take them on  the Gunpowder but you could probably count on catfish, bass, and just about  anything big enough to eat them taking one.  A large unweighted muddler should  have a passable contour and when properly presented should make the necessary  ’plopping’ sound to initiate a strike.  It make take a few days for the fish  to realize that the cicadas are food since they are big enough to scare off the  less aggressive fish.    –      David J. Ebinger                     330-453-5180      Ebinger Equipment Co.                Fax 453-7113      http://www.bright.net/~ebco/

Response:

writes: Spent the summer on Cape Cod in 79 and the Circadia hatch was wild. Dark brown beetle looking creatures if I remember. But hey it’s been a while. The hatch is incredible as it matures in about three days. They don’t stay around too long. About a week was the total duration. I’m sure the trout take them but for the short period ot time the hatch is around it’s not worth tying for.

No way! I was in Mashpee in 79 and the browns on Mashpee-Wakeby killed the Cicadas during the entire hatch and could be fooled long afterward. I ran the 4-H camp there and fished nearly every day. Smallmouth were especially suseptable to any large bodied fly during that hatch. Bill — Bill Fling                     Tel. (315) 298-3044 SALMON RIVER ANGLERS LODGE     FAX  (315) 298-2619 P.O. Box 353                   Rt. 13, Rome Road Pulaski, NY 13142-0353   ‘SALMON RIVER/LAKE ONTARIO SPORTFISHING REPORTS’             ‘http://www.salmon-river.com’

Response:

An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?

They do have a tendency to fall in the water.  I’ve seen trout take them on the Gunpowder but you could probably count on catfish, bass, and just about anything big enough to eat them taking one.  A large unweighted muddler should have a passable contour and when properly presented should make the necessary ‘plopping’ sound to initiate a strike.  It make take a few days for the fish to realize that the cicadas are food since they are big enough to scare off the less aggressive fish.   —     David J. Ebinger                     330-453-5180     Ebinger Equipment Co.                Fax 453-7113     http://www.bright.net/~ebco/

Response:

Spent the summer on Cape Cod in 79 and the Circadia hatch was wild. Dark brown beetle looking creatures if I remember. But hey it’s been a while. The hatch is incredible as it matures in about three days. They don’t stay around too long. About a week was the total duration. I’m sure the trout take them but for the short period ot time the hatch is around it’s not worth tying for.

Response:

An article in today’s paper discusses the imminent hatch in the Eastern   U.S. of billions of cicadas in their 17 year cycle. They are huge, winged insects and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what it was like during the last hatch in ‘79 ? Any suggested strategies or fly patterns we can use ? Do the trout readily take them ?

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] This is a form of hunting, no more no less, with all of the qualities of hunting.  This is not golf. It is not a game. It involves an animal. You are sticking sharpened steel into an animals face. If this bothers you, then you might want to consider something else… God, Tim you sure the life of the party these days. Howdy Don, Just applying the "does he want to flyfish or just look like ‘a flyfisher’ test big guy… I, do NOT welcome ‘all’ newbies to the sport in some kind of "Barneyesque Lemming Hugs and Kisses" fashion.

        i couldn’t agree more.  in fact, there are quite a few "old boys" out there that could use a lot less time on the water in the carolina blue ridge. Maybe it’s because I don’t want to sell them anything.

        once again, right on the nose, timbo.  please see "orvis jeeps", "orvis trout schools", "orvis approved guides" for documentation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -TimW

Response:

He said I did not need any flys for now just practice with the pole. Sure…., put a fly to the line and practice in a bass water or whatever U like to catch. Best training there is, and who knows, U even migth catch something. I saw a martin bass rig for 49.95 in Bass Pro’s spring catalog.  Will this be a good learner set? Thanks John

Put a fly on the line when you practice and use a leader/tippet of about 9feet as this will alter the way your line will cast.  It does not cast properly without a fly and you will even notice a change when you use different weight flies.   Also, I agree with the other guy, go practice on some water, choose a place where there is not too much vegitation to get caught up in and don’t try to cast too far first off, accuracy is far more important when your starting out. Good luck and stick with it, once you get the hang of it you’ll never use a baitcaster again! Darren (New Zealand)

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: I, do NOT welcome ‘all’ newbies to the sport in some kind of : "Barneyesque Lemming Hugs and Kisses" fashion. Allright!  I’m pretty sure this is our first Barney reference.  Way to go Tim. —

No,  I’ve made several Barney remarks…but, I do always keep in mind…                   "Everyone is someone elses Barney" XXXOOO’s TimW

Response:

I just took my first fly fishing weekend course. I liked it. I could see myself doing it better than I ever spin or bait fished. My instructor told me to get a 5/6 pole and weight forward line with a reel of some type.

Skip the WF line and go for a Double Taper instead……You won’t get the same distance but it’s much easier to learn to do other than the "standard" overhead cast…….It’s probably cheaper too…… He said I did not need any flys for now just practice with the pole.

Sure…., put a fly to the line and practice in a bass water or whatever U like to catch. Best training there is, and who knows, U even migth catch something. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I saw a martin bass rig for 49.95 in Bass Pro’s spring catalog.  Will this be a good learner set? Thanks John

Response:

Chief-petty-officer to the newbie – Boy, we need to tie that down, go to supply and get me a 100′ of shoreline. While you’re out pick up a bucket of relative bearing grease…

Oh, I think it got left on the signal bridge. Either there or in shaft alley #3.  Better check both places. kill -9 -1 | sort | init                         1965 IH Scout                         1908 Win 30-30                  

Question:

Hi all, are there any flyfishing related shows coming up in Seattle in the next few weeks? Al.

Response:

Yes, there is a show this week in the Kingdome.  It is not a fly fish only show.  However it will feature presentation casting, fly shops, etc.  Most of the major manufacturers should be there too. SAGE, etc. It is the International Sportsman Exhib.  Usually a very good show, one of my favourites. Best Fishes, Marilyn Murphy Murphy’s Sportfishing Vancouver Island, BC "Your West Coast Fishing Information Source"

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Question:

What to charge for private tying lessons? I have two questions for any fly tying instructors who care to reply. I have been teaching fly tying at a local shop for the past 3 years and I recently was asked to do some private one-on-one lessons. question #1: My friends tell me I do not charge enough for my instruction. What do you charge a beginner for 1.5 hours of instruction. question #2: what would you charge if your student was selling flies to a mail-order company. If you prefer not to reply to the newsgroup, thanks todd seigfried

Response:

What to charge for private tying lessons?

[snip] If you prefer not to reply to the newsgroup,

I would appreciate it if any responders would post the answer here!   Would like to know the answer also.

Response:

question #1: My friends tell me I do not charge enough for my instruction. What do you charge a beginner for 1.5 hours of instruction.

I’m an instructor here in the Chicago area, and the students pay 75.00 for a two-day (total of six hours) seminar.  That’s 12.50 per hour (payed to the fly-shop) but it’s in groups of from four to seven people.  For private lessons I would charge 25.00 per hour. Jack

Response:

Hi Todd, My wife and I make our living as commercial fly tiers in the winter and guides in the summer.  Our price for teaching fly tying PERIOD… is $25.00 per hour, no matter the size of the class or the number of students.  It could be one person or twelve (our maximum). If I had a student who was selling flies to some one else, you ask, "What would I do?" I would try to hire him! Take care!  Good Tying & Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT I have two questions for any fly tying instructors who care to reply. I have been teaching fly tying at a local shop for the past 3 years and I recently was asked to do some private one-on-one lessons.

Please check the message above!  Take Care! Al Beatty

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I think that if you were on a limited budget, like you were in graduate school, you could have everyone chip in a dime per fly to cover the cost of the materials.          Jeff Schaeffer

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Question:

I’m doing an informal survey on anglers favourite magazines and authors, (or TV hosts, etc..). Email me with yours! Thanks. Paradigm Management Group

Response:

American Angler is my favorite.  I gave up on the others, since they seemed to have become more travelogue, than anything else.  I don’t have a favorite TV show, but if I had to make a choice, I’d say "Fishing the West."

Response:

In my opinion they all seem to rehash much of the same old stuff and of course they survive on advertising.  It just that sometimes they seem to be almost in an alliance with their advertisers to the point that it seems that thats what its all about.  Their is one new magazine out of Livingston MT, "The Angler Journal" that seems to be a little less commercial.  They at least have stated the quality is their goal.

Response:

Do you get _Fly Rod & Reel_?  See, the reason I ask is that in the current issue one feature article is far from the same old thing…Flyfishing for largemouths in New York’s central park.  I doubt highly that this was an ad gig.         If you think that all the magazines rehash the same old stuff, try to think of something that’s truely original in this sport that warrants a feature article.  I for one will not sit still through six pages on the advent of a fly hackled about the hook bend, yet this seems to be the most original thing to come down the pike.  What’s left then are the destination pieces, but it’s been shown that exotic trips are a turn-off to readers.  So what’s left to hold the readers’ interest?  This recent article is an intelligent step forward.  If you have a good idea for a story, send it to the editors or better yet, write it.  They’re always looking for good stuff. Jamus

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

Response:

I’m goin to Watertown NY over labor day. If anybody could put me on to a Musky guide in the area I’d be thrilled. I’m an old Atlantic salmon/trout flyfishing guide myself and certainly would be willing to share my expertise (?? ) with anyone out there in exchange for a trip. Also, my brother has a boat in S. Florida and would be willing to reciprocate in a similar manner. Cal "dreamin of skee" Harris

Call Bill & Jack’s Marina in Fishers Landing at 315-686-3592. Bill has been there for many many years and knows the river and guides. He isn’t a guide himself but I’m sure he could recommend a good one. Jack Paul Hereford, Pa 18056

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Question:

Anyone been to the South Platte lately?  Have any luck?  If so, what on, and how was it rigged?  Any ideas, advice or info on this river would be appreciated. You could see from my headers/.sig that I’m in Colorado, but I don’t get down to the Platte very much.

Mike. I’m disappointed.  You should have dropped me aline!  Anyway, the rivers up 130CFS, and fishing is quite good.  SJW’s, Miracle Nymphs, Brassies, and of course the ubiquitous Buckskin.  Get up here while the water’s still up, and you should get some fishing.  Also: small midge stuff(18-24) will work right now.  Canyons a zoo as always, best seems to be below Trumbull as far as Oxyoke.  Seen some guys below oxyoke but no clue to their success. Swayback Chaz

Response:

: Anyone been to the South Platte lately?  Have any luck?  If so, what on, : and how was it rigged?  Any ideas, advice or info on this river would be : appreciated. : You could see from my headers/.sig that I’m in Colorado, but I don’t get down : to the Platte very much.         The best suggestion that  I could think of for the South Platte would be to get a copy of Roger Hill’s (I think that is his name) book "Flyfishing the South Platte".  It is a very well written book and goes through hatches, patterns, etc,etc…         I just started fishing (fly) about 6 months ago and have caught lots of fish down in Cheesman and Waterton Canyons…         A few brief words of advice from my box, never go down there without RS-2 (sz 18-22), something colorful like red disco midges (sz 20), san juan worms if the flow is high, and scuds.  There are lots of other nymphs that do real well down there also…         Good luck!!!!!

Response:

: muskrat/copper. Terminal setup: 6′ braided butt to about 3X, then a 3.5′ 8X : tippet, BB shot about 10" up from the fly, indicator adj to depth. 8X ?!?!? You gotta be kidding me !  It must take you 30 minutes to land a 10 inch fish ?  These fish is gonna die my man… With a friendly tone, Tim Walker

Response:

: : Anyone been to the South Platte lately?  Have any luck?  If so, what on, : : and how was it rigged?  Any ideas, advice or info on this river would be : : appreciated. The So. Platte from Cheesman down is (IMHO) a complete waste of time. It used to be wonderful.  Now the snobs line the banks and the fish themselves turn their noses up at your flies.  Why anyone would drive south from Ft. Collins is beyond me.  Go North my man.  Wyoming awaits you. But, if you go to the Platte, take along your 7X and your Orvis addition Jeep. Happy Holidays, Tim Walker

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone been to the South Platte lately?  Have any luck?  If so, what on, and how was it rigged?  Any ideas, advice or info on this river would be appreciated. You could see from my headers/.sig that I’m in Colorado, but I don’t get down to the Platte very much. Mike. I’m disappointed.  You should have dropped me aline!  Anyway, the rivers up 130CFS, and fishing is quite good.  SJW’s, Miracle Nymphs, Brassies, and of course the ubiquitous Buckskin.  Get up here while the water’s still up, and you should get some fishing.  Also: small midge stuff(18-24) will work right now.  Canyons a zoo as always, best seems to be below Trumbull as far as Oxyoke.  Seen some guys below oxyoke but no clue to their success. Swayback Chaz

Went last week and yesterday, fished Trumbull both times. The flow has been 130 for awhile now, but I can’t say the fishing’s been that good. Landed 4-5 fish each trip, all later in the day. Half on a #22 red midge larvae, half on #24 muskrat/copper. Terminal setup: 6′ braided butt to about 3X, then a 3.5′ 8X tippet, BB shot about 10" up from the fly, indicator adj to depth. Wouldn’t bother below Oxyoke, lots of ice. Probably frozen across around Night- hawk on down. — Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

Response:

 The So. Platte from Cheesman down is (IMHO) a complete waste of time.  It used to be wonderful.  Now the snobs line the banks and the fish  themselves turn their noses up at your flies.  Why anyone would  drive south from Ft. Collins is beyond me.  Go North my man.  Wyoming  awaits you. I don’t know about snobs lining the banks, but the guides sure are since Spinney has fallen on hard times. However I don’t

know where one would find open water this time of year within a reasonable drive. Yours virtually, Gary W. Godden Denver, Colorado

Response:

Anyone been to the South Platte lately?  Have any luck?  If so, what on, and how was it rigged?  Any ideas, advice or info on this river would be appreciated. You could see from my headers/.sig that I’m in Colorado, but I don’t get down to the Platte very much.

Response:

Question:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite

Oops! Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply we’re not in the backcountry after dark.  Many times I’m bivouaced on a ledge while climbing or camping in sagebrush near a remote desrt cave in Wyoming. So what I meant to imply is that besides the diversity of day trips many of us pack gear into remote places during mountaineering, caving, and whitewater trips that backpackers normally don’t visit. I’ve never seen backpackers on the East Ridge of the Grand Teton, or in the desert near Bighorn caverns, or along some of the remote stretches of whitewater in central Idaho, so there ARE more people in the backcountry overnight far from trailheads and vehicles, but in different places than backpackers normally go. I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip. Steve —

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Eugene Miya: What worries me more are the borderline Wilcox’s out there reading the net (you can quote me on that).  I know a few in everyday life, and I lost one a couple of years back.  That is evolution in action. –eugene Steve Reiser:   Hi Eugene, I read your posting on "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and "White Winds", both of which I’ve read and have copies of.  Snyder indicated a lot of bad judgement by Wilcox.  Wilcox tries to be objective in his book, but one can’t help but notice his omissions. He seemed to cover up his errors not by arguing with Snyder’s account, but by ignoring them altogether. His book seemed somewhat defensive, especially at the end when he talks about all the grief he went through in the press afterword. I think Snyder probably gave an honest account, which arouses some wrath toward Wilcox, in most readers.  I didn’t like the way Wilcox covered his errors, but I was convinced that he suffered enough condemnation afterword to make me feel a bit sorry for him. I think his response was a bit overly defensive to the media, the Park Service, and the relatives of those who died. I would imagine that Wilcox’s attempt to gloss over his errors may have been part of the inspiration for Snyder to write his book in the first place. Hence, if Wilcox would have been more honest in the first place, it’s possible that neither book would have ever been written. It’s hard to read both books and not come up with mixed feelings toward Wilcox.  It’s tempting to feel some anger toward him for lack of good judgement, especially on their summit day for the second group, and at the same time feeling some sympathy for the weight of blame layed on him, since he was the expedition leader. (Snyder was better qualified to be the leader of the group.) Steve Reiser P.S – Seven friends of mine left yesterday for the Denali. I wish them well. (They’re more experienced than most in the books discussed above). If this appears twice, I first posted without a subject. —

Response:

I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip.

Maybe we have a problem with semantics here.  I think if you hike off into the woods with a backpack, you’re backpacking, no matter what the end result is.  I pack in to climb mountains, do caves, search for minerals, etc. and consider that backpacking.  Cripes, those packs are heavy – I’m not doing it for fun. Well, maybe I am.  Either way, I’m still pleased that there are less people out there when sunset finishes and the stars come out.

Response:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities.

Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite a bit of backpacking in the early 70’s.  He said that he would hike 10 miles into the backcountry and see several groups of people back there too and think nothing of it.  Other than my group of friends, I don’t know anyone at all that backpacks and I almost never see anyone else in the backcountry (outside of hunters, that is).  One would think that there would at least be trail bikers back there but they seem to be more into ‘day-biking’.  I’m not complaining, of course, I’m happy.

Response:

I thought some might find this article interesting – DH [some deleted] ON THE DECLINE   Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.

However, if you look at statistics for many other backcountry activities, you’ll find a drastic increase. Mountaineering, technical rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking, spelunking, and many other backcountry sports are experiencing nearly exponential growth.  I see more people specializing in specific sports in the backcountry and less who are out strictly backpacking. DIVERSIFY   Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.

This hesitation to diversify has cost many local stores business in specialized gear, more of which is sold through mail order companies.  I probably buy 50% of my outdoor gear through mail order due to this hesitance in local store.  I’m into all of the sports I listed above and the diversity of gear required is far more than most outdoor shops are willing to carry. My point here in comparison to the original article is to note that even though outdoor gear is fashionable on the streets, day hikes, and campgrounds, and with backpacking on the decline, there is still an exploding market for specialized backcoutry sports. There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Steve —

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH Backpacking Outlets Expand Bottom Line    by Susan Simmons Eustes Boulder Business Report – May 1990    Despite a dramatic drop in number of campers and tourists trekking into the back country, area mountaineering stores say their sales are growing every year.    The day when the Vasque hiking boots were the "casual" loafer for many Boulderites has long disappeared.  Today, lighter and brighter are in demand and traditional mountaineering stores are expanding product lines to include gear for every sport from kayaking to mountain biking.    Like it or not, the mountaineering "look" continues to be fashionable in Boulder.  "You always want the ‘in’ look, whether you are hiking the mall or hiking Flagstaff," said John Whitbeck, manager at the north face in Boulder. "People want to wear clothing that identifies them as outdoorsy." ON THE DECLINE    Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.    … In 1985, the first year permits were issued for Indian Peaks [Wilderness Area], 2,134 were requested.  In 1989, 1,550 permits were requested.    So what does this mean for the people who sell camp stoves, sleeping bags, and hiking shoes?    It means even more business, said Whitbeck.    "In our 15 retail stores, without exception, business has been up a mile." The selling point for The North Face, and other mountain stores, is the dramatic shift in outdoor gear lines from the products carried 15 years ago. The traditional business of boots, packs and tents has mushroomed to include equipment for outdoor sports as varied as cross-country skiing or fly fishing. DIVERSIFY    As baby boomers married and began to raise children, more chose day hikes or more convenient overnight stays in campgrounds, say Jim Wilson of the back- country office at Rocky Mountain National Park. …    … (examples of stores diversifying) …    Dan Hare, manager of The Boulder Mountaineer, said his sales of backpacks and sleeping bags continues to increase, but "lots of people buy backpacks that never go into the back country," he added.    Shannon Long, manager at the Boulder Army Store, has noticed more of his customers are car camping and buying more for convenience.  Such campers, however, often opt for the more expensive lines.    "Ten years ago, people weren’t buying high-tech stuff.  They weren’t into buying brand names.  They were more concerned about getting a good product for a low price."    Clothing is a big seller for most outdoor shops.  Color are big, as are brand names and high fashion, mountain store owners agree.    Everybody likes rugby shirts and cotton shorts, said Phil Hollman, salesman at The North Face.  "Colors and style – people are really taken with that as much as we like to think they weren’t," Hollman said.  "Everything is getting more specialized: new technologies, new fabrics, lighter weight and very colorful."    Wools and cottons are taking a back seat to newer, more durable and comfortable fabrics such as Goretex, Dudley said.  And with the newer fabrics come higher prices.    The "tech heads" want the best, Noel added.  People want the fiberglass tent poles, the lightweight backpacks and the warmer, more water repellant clothing even if it means higher prices.    Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.    Image and brand names mean more to people than store managers care to admit, [Mountain Sports buyer Scott] Lee said.  "We’re not quite as trendy a store as some …  We don’t want to lose our image as a mountaineering shop."

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