Question:

You’re actually going to fish with them. I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

You’re actually going to fish with them.

yup! hell, i can’t tie anywhere as nice as you guys….. hell, they’re meant to catch fish! I usually make copies and save the original. Who knows, someday a full set of the great fly swap flies may be worth a small fortune.

well, your (and others) have gone up in value, as there will soon be one less set on the market. –waldo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks fro everything Frank!  Draive safely. Op

Response:

<<  "Frank Church"   << I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator   Thank you so much. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

God it’s got to be the first clave ever!!  See Wayno on the right.  Go to www.csse.monsah.edu.au/~steve/clave.jpg

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Response:

I see the fly swap packages are starting to show up and most seem happy with the goodies contained therein, and that’s a good thing. Off to Houston, TX. in a few minutes so I won’t be here to answer complaints or other comments until Sat AM most likely.  You girls play nice while I’m gone, on the road slaving over a hot steering wheel. Frank Church recently deposed SwapDictator

Thanks to all the tyers and to you Frankie baby…… great collection of flies. I can’t wait to try ‘em! –waldo

Response:

Question:

Wow, poignant. Too late wise, too soon old… — XLK9 Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If time could be bartered for gold, all the treasure that I have amassed, I would give up thrice tenthousandfold, to relive some things that are past, how my heart beat when we first met. I stammered,  my knees went weak, bewitched by each gesture and word, myself hardly able to speak.

Response:

(snippage of time grudgingly) TL MC

I can feel a great deal of empathy with that, Mike.  Conjures memories, stories of times past, stories of times to come.  Once these times have been spent, it is not time lost, but time which serves our memories again and again. Wayne to fish is human…to release Divine!!

Response:

If time could be bartered for gold, all the treasure that I have amassed, I would give up thrice tenthousandfold, to relive some things that are past, how my heart beat when we first met. I stammered,  my knees went weak, bewitched by each gesture and word, myself hardly able to speak. Our first walks down by the river, how you were annoyed at my wishing, that instead of just walking and talking, we could linger awhile, and go fishing.

– snip — What a wonderful expose! It took me immediately to those moments back in 1962 when I was courting my lifelong partner. We have raised three children who all enjoy and appreciate the wonders of the out-of-doors. Today we still enjoy the rigors of tent camping, fishing, hiking and birdwatching. But, perhaps the greatest joy is now enjoying all of this with the newest generation. I had a chance to go fishing with my five year old granddaughter this past weekend. I was in seventh heaven and all because of the two people whose hearts shared those things that are natural. Thank you Mike. WLM

Response:

If time could be bartered for gold, all the treasure that I have amassed, I would give up thrice tenthousandfold, to relive some things that are past, how my heart beat when we first met. I stammered,  my knees went weak, bewitched by each gesture and word, myself hardly able to speak. Our first walks down by the river, how you were annoyed at my wishing, that instead of just walking and talking, we could linger awhile, and go fishing. The first time we actually fished, and you of course, caught far more than I, I did not stage it at all, my thoughts were elsewhere, than my cast and my fly How many more such days will there be?  together, just you and me, will we walk hand in hand by the stream?  happy and laughing and free. Time

Question:

Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree. What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.)

I guess we have different definitions of finish carpenter. In my book it’s the person who works (generally) inside the building putting up baseboard, door & window trim, panelling and molding. And often installing cabinets and built-ins. You will generally see these guys wielding a nail gun, rubbing glue on with a finger tip, and filling holes with putty. There’s usually a second person who slaps on the stain and poly. So what is that that makes Norm _not_ a finish carpenter? The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them)

Well, that’s why Ron Popeil is rich, isn’t it. pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better.

Oh come on. The Leigh Dovetail jig costs $370 and the router is around $150. Hardly excessive. And there’s an endorsement there. He’s shown a couple of other dovetail jigs through the years–such as the Keller–but they only ever made one appearance. The Leigh keeps coming back. So I’d say he’s gotten his money’s worth and it makes me think that it’s probably worth spending the money on. Despite what many people think, outside of a few really obvious examples (the 15" planer, the wide belt sander, and the resaw) the NYW really isn’t overly equipped. It probably seems so to the person just starting out, but I’ve seen many hobbyist shops with as much or more equipment in them. –Rick

Response:

This poll has been done here several times. It is about 50/50. I don’t use them either. — CW KC7NOD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

Response:

Fountain) crayoned this: Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter. Norm is not a finish carpenter. Norm is not a fine woodworker. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t dislike Norm (only some of his practices), I do like many of his projects, and he surely knows more about carpentry than I do. We just have different opinions on what is important in a finished product and how to get there. (Especially nowadays. Out here in LoCal, I couldn’t afford to RUN the multi-megawatt tools he uses.) All about old planes: Electrolysis: http://members.xoom.com/nlindsey/restoration/Restoration.htm Flattening: http://members.aol.com/tomprice/galootp/Quicklap.html Dating Stanley iron planes: http://peta.ee.cornell.edu/~jay/ww/planes/ Stanley (now Patrick’s) Blood and Gore http://www.supertool.com/index.htm — the Stanley Bible The best wood reference site in the entire world is: http://www.internetwoodworking.com/w5/wood.html/

Response:

<<<)))Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy <<<)))stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to <<<)))replace as needed. Yeah, that, or he could be showing that there is a use for all types of wood, and that you can use different materials if it suits you.

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

A.  I always use the splitter when making through cuts. B.  I use the guard (I purchased a Uniguard when I bought my Unisaw) whenever possible.  There are times that it won’t work for various cuts, but the Uniguard is very good about being flipped out of the way and then flipped back in place.

Response:

Sometimes Norm Confuses Me As well he should. 1/2 hour to do a 2-week project? That’s TV! Repeat after me: Norm is a carpenter.

I agree. Norm is not a finish carpenter.

I disagree. Norm is not a fine woodworker.

He’s working on it. Proof of these three facts are shown on every episode: Norm nails, stains, and poly’s the shit out of every project.

Part of the ‘problem’, methinks, is that he approaches his projects just like a professional finish carpenter would rather than luxuriating in the process like a hobbyist or a fine woodworker would. Ever watched a finish carpenter roll through a new house? Air brad nailers and putty are his friend! Outside real high-end houses, no one can afford to take the time to make sliding dovetails to hold moldings and hand-cut dovetails on all four corners of a drawer box. Measure, cut, bam, bam, and move on. Gotta trim out 8 windows and two doors before going home today. The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?). Most projecte appear to take two days, but how many of us actually put in an 8-hour day in the shop? However, I sometimes wish they’d be a little less honest and at least portray him more like the rest of us. For example–he’s a busy guy and probably really needs the time saved by that wide belt sander. But since 99% of us don’t own one, why don’t they show him hand sanding (or scraping!) the first panel and then he can run the rest through the dust hog off camera. Same with that huge re-saw. It was cool the first time he used it, but on subsequent shows where he needed to resaw a board he should show us a different technique. If it’s slower and more laborious, so what. He starts it on camera and then uses the resaw to finish the rest. The fact is, he could be more like Dean and Robin who have a whole crew of carpenters, plumbers and electricians who actually do most of the work they pretend to. That’s how _they_ finish a 3 month project in three half-hour episodes! Then he wouldn’t feel as remote from us normal joes. That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box. –Rick

Response:

Norm stopped being a woodworker some time ago, now he sells tools (or creates the "need" to buy them – your choice). Having said that, Norm builds stuff his way, I build stuff mine and you, undoubtedly, build stuff your way. Moral – never ask the donkey what the horse is doing – ask the horse instead. — Jim Warman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me

Response:

Norm is not a finish carpenter. I disagree.

What about the nail gun, stain-over-smeared-glue, and poly? (I had forgotten the glue-smearing tactic in my 1st post.) Norm is not a fine woodworker. He’s working on it.

Perhaps. (see Q above) The fact that he crams a week-long project into 1/2 hour isn’t relevant. He’s not doing it real time like Roy Underhill and we all know that (right kids?).

Bzzzzt! Ask these Normites’ wives. (and probably 1/3 of them) That said, I’ve watched the show from the beginning and credit it, more than anything else, with getting me back into woodworking. He _has_ grown considerably as a woodworker since those early days. If anything, in his

True. Haven’t we all grown in that time? design sense. He was guilty of some cross-grain glue-ups early on, but he pays attention now. In the early days he was content with a simple half-blind dovetail jig for all his drawers. He still doesn’t hand-cut them but at least he appreciates the aesthetics of the hand-cut look given by the leigh jig.

I must have missed the episode titled "How to fake hand-cut dovies using only $26,745.13 worth of powah tools." (Of course, I’ve only seen 3 or 4 episodes, plus 5-10 minutes of half a dozen others.) I liked him on TOH much better. And a few projects he really has made an effort to build it with no brads in visible places. I think he did fairly well on the jewelry box.

1 Atta Boy, going out toward NYWville tonight.  I’ll apologize for offending someone…right after they apologize for being easily offended. http://www.diversify.com  Inoffensive Web Design

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

As a long time lurker on here, to help or hinder the pol, add my vote please. I use neither, Jay BobK

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

I usually keep a "RipStraight" attachment on my fence.  If I’ll be ripping a number of boards I’ll put the splitter back on the saw.  If I looked hard enough I probably could find my blade guard. — Jack Novak Buffalo, NY – USA

Response:

I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve

That was a pretty startling comment.  He operates out of a 40 gazzilion dollar shop with the best of everything and he ran out of screws???? By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? -JR

Response:

By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy?

Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

Response:

[snide mode on] " and a couple of brads to hold it while the glue dries" [snide off] Actually, I do enjoy Norm’s shows.  There is always an idea lurking about and ready to be learned.  Entertainment? Sure.  Why is Norm carried in more places than Roy. Wince?  Sure.  Whenever Norm gets his glue machine and brad nailer out and whenever Roy gets something sharp out.  Lots of good stuff out there.     mahalo,     jo4hn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

Response:

While being no Sam Maloof,

Who’s Sam Maloof?

Response:

When Norm is hosting his show, he’s more than just Carpenter Guy — he’s Carpenter Guy Hosting a Do-It-Mostly-Yourself TV Show. I’ve often wondered why he uses different methods to achieve the same result from show to show, and I figured it’s probably to show the viewers — who might not watch every show — varying ways of completing the project. Pocket screws seem more of a pain the the butt than biscuits (for example), but it PC is going to give the show their $700 pocket-screw-cutter-thingie, they probably want him to use it every once in a while. Mark

Response:

Actually, Norms use of epoxy in the sailboat is pretty much standard. A lot of cedar strip canoes and wooden drift boats (flyfishing related) are finished inside and out with West System epoxies…it completely waterproofs and strengthens the boat and wood. And driftboats have sometimes sport UHMW bottoms as well as aluminum chines. Best Regards, Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way, was there actually any wood in that sailboat or was it made entirely of epoxy? Well, there’s some wood in between the epoxy plies. Mike.

Response:

I thought it was funny on todays episode on HGTV while he was building a sailboat and was using bronze screws….all of a sudden he says he ran outa them and will now use stainless steel ones..I mean I know stainless is fine for boats but..but..but—-Norm run outa something in middle of project??????? ps I tape them too..by the way he’s still my hero.. ;0} Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a snip 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile.

snip snip

Response:

Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Philski – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither.

I use neither, either!  And for the past 27 years my digits have remained all mine. In fact the worst cuts have been from chisels, and I don’t think they make a guard for those beasties, do they?  :-)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by……. Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood.

Well, I might use a low quality plywood thinking that with wet and muddy stuff being stored inside the seat, it will be inexpensive and easy to replace as needed.

Response:

Frank, please! Let’s take a poll…how many honestly use a splitter and/or guard? I use neither. Jay in NH

Response:

I give credit to Norm getting the wife and I into woodworking. I agree that we cringe when he nails moldings and at the lack of splitter or saw guard.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerry, You don’t really seem to be "confused" at all! You have used this opportunity to air your two-cents worth. (As well you can). But I am not of the opinion that you have to follow _every_method_ that Norm provides in his presentations. While being no Sam Maloof, Normski does provide some needed entertainment on the Boob Toob where a plethora of Award Shows seem to rule the roost. He must have had to get rid of that last sheet of CDX – but you can always substitute honest-to-goodness wood in it’s place if you so desire. Then you could always change the channel too huh? Here I am responding to a drive-by…….

Nope.  I wasn’t trolling.  I guess my word choice of being "confused" related to "just when you think Norm is going the traditional way", he turns 180 degrees and does something like insert a piece of (poor quality) plywood. I wasn’t trying to get into a discussion of how to follow Norms plans, but rather inquire if anyone could see *what* might have been going through his mind when he did something.  Considering that he does the pieces twice, once for the prototype and once more for video, you would think that some thought and reasoning went into the decisions. Still, I enjoy watching the show, and I still learn things from it.  I guess I’ve learned enough to start questioning things  I didn’t even mention that his explanation for how he was glueing only 2/3 of the panels made any sense, plus the fact that some of his tenons seemed awfully long (but it was quarter-sawn).  Wood movement is something I’m trying to study more (beyond the basic rules that is). Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Sometimes Norm Confuses Me I’ll prefix this with the comment that, when it comes down to it, Norm has far more experience and skill than I have (I’m a hobbiest/hack working my way up to carpenter, hoping to be woodworker at some point). I have taped most of his shows and review them if there was something I wanted to understand better. Some may debate the statement that he is a "Fine Woodworker" or a "Craftsman", but when it comes down to it he does make some nice pieces given the restrictions of his show (time, sponsors, and audience). But, he often does things I find, well, confusing. I was watching his recent episode of the "Hall Seat". http://www.newyankee.com/GetProduct2.cgi?0103 This episode raised a number of questions and refreshed my thoughts on old issues.  Perhaps some would care to comment on my confusion here.  Most are probably design issues. 1. Using a piece of (BC, CD even) plywood for the bottom of the chair "box".  My god.  Norm even comments that it isn’t all that authentic but that he’ll "just paint it".  He spends an entire show recreating an "authentic" piece, including panels, and then shortcuts the bottom.  I know the underside won’t likely be seen, but the inside of the box will often.  There is not advantage of plywood here as it is a loose panel.  Cost wouldn’t be a real issue compared to the overall project.  It almost appears that he ran out of wood or something.  At least he could have used a better piece of ply.  From the large knots it looked like a scrap from the Home Depot CDX pile. I think this was a shortcut that didn’t make ANY sense. 2. His under-arm reinforcement.  He makes a good case for why this needed to be done.  No argument there and he makes good use of it to discuss the use of an inlay set for the router.  Unfortunately, his choice of color and shape were utilitarian to say the least. Couldn’t he have used some ply and then a thin strip of veneer? Perhaps some hardwood plywood?  Both would have gone towards making the reinforcement look less like an afterthought.  On a more stylish note, perhaps using something like a bowtie shape would have looked more traditional than the rectangle he used. The shape is probably being picky, but a better choice in wood tone would be more appropriate (IMHO). 3. The mirror frame.  I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here a bit as I’m sure he has to keep the tool companies happy. But still, he did the entire piece with M&T joinery, then at the last second pops in with the pocket screws.  I noticed he covered them with another (ugly) sheet of plywood and the whole piece will be against the wall, but it seems a bit gratuitous and diminishes a piece that (with #1 fixed) would have been of heirloom quality (potentially). Finally, one that wasn’t in the Hall Seat show, but still always amazes me. 4. Norm has clamps up the wazzo (something not to be debated), and we all know he sleeps with his brad nailer, but using brads to hold solid wood edging on plywood rather than simply clamping them seems foolish (for non-production shops).  I mean really.  I’m putting the edging on to give a finished appearance to the piece. Why do I want to go and put holes in it which have to be patched and which will show up in the final piece?  Am I missing something other than speed (which isn’t an issue for his show) or product promotion (heck, perhaps Bessey would like to sell some more K-bodies ? Jerry — Jerry Fountain          | Laboratory for Fluid Mechanics, Chaos, and Mixing (847) 491-3555 (Office) | Department of Chemical Engineering (847) 491-3728 (FAX)    | 2145 Sheridan Road, Evanston, IL  60208

Response:

Question:

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Yep, he always gets Chill Wills and Slim Pickens mixed up… — Charlie…

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!!

Yup…but when the brewery is shut down for construction…ya gotta just make do. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes…

Oh, I don’t know. I think there’s a lot more to it than passing down indignities. Team building, male bonding etc. etc. Not that I’m in favor of hazing but I’ve endured some, I’ve inflicted some and I’m no worse for the we&*6YHOU&UK arghhh, kill, kill, sue, sue, CANCEL THE WHOLE DAMN HOCKEY SEASON. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

______  Commercial Budweiser is for sissy’’s.  Western boys brew their own! Right T-bone? ; )  Make some of that RATTLESNAKE RED!  Yummmmmmmmmmmy!!!! Mr. G.

Response:

Now listen here bud,   awwwww, forget it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Ken Fortenberry wrote We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on.

You’ve hit on the reason why hazing will never die:  The only way to assuage the pang of indignity is to pass it on.  And so it goes… —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

two-story outhouse. How would that work? —

The story I got was that the outhouse had been built for a hotel that was built during the 1880’s and the hotel was above the timberline. The snow got so deep that the hotel and all other buildings had have doors  that worked when the snow was so high that doors on the first floor could not be opened…you just couldnot wait till the snow melts, so… Big Dale

Response:

daytripper wrote Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

The man is no fool.  Over the top is exactly where you want to be while using the establishment in question!  (Especially if ET2 is standing outside throwing rocks into the muck)

Response:

TBone wrote [deleted] To hell with the beer. To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT !

Sorry.  Misspoke.  Meant to say, "To hell with the Bud" Can I be excused now? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

______  Great!  If David LaCourse was on the first floor. Dang!  Did I say that?  Sorry David, even you don’t deserve that. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance …

Remove your hands from the keyboard, and leave them where I can see ‘em… Let me be sure that I’m understanding correctly: We have a nasty C&R thread that’s forked, we have a couple of g*nk threads, and people are complaining about beer postings in a Clave thread? I’m sure that there’s logic behind such matters. I’m also sure that I’m not following it. "They conferred, as against the Government, the right to be let alone — the most comprehensive of rights…" -Justice Louis Brandeis

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I had to do a search and see if I could find a photo of this two-story outhouse on the Internet.  I remember watching a program about a two- story outhouse on t.v.   Additionally, thought I could remember seeing a photo on the Internet of a two-story outhouse.  So, I had to refined the photo.  Here are the photos of two-story outhouses that I’ve found. http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5047/outhouse.html http://w3.trib.com/~leebo/gem.htm http://www.mich.com/~jloose/ohorania.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Here are some more photos. http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette004/gif/035.GIF http://www2.macomb.k12.mi.us/mich/m2-site/fayette/fayette005/gif/038.GIF http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/wanderers/Brokenislands/outhouse.htm — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the [budweiser].  I’m still trying to visualize a two- story outhouse.  How would that work?

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter. Encampment, Wyoming has one of these, too. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

When you see a two story outhouse, you’re in an area that gets lots of snow. the bottom level is snowed in for much of the winter.

This is not always the case.  The web sites that I found talk about the two story outhouse being next to a hotel.  The top part was for those people that had a hotel room on the second floor.  A small bridge was built to the outhouse so they would not need to walk down at night. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work? It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

We had a six-holer at scout camp with a cellar door on the back for "honey-truck" access. Part of the initiation ritual for first year staff included a very large rock dropped into the muck from the cellar door while the rookies occupied the outhouse. Kinda funny actually, from your second year on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad. Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Now, I’ve sat and listened to Indian Joe wind up and let fly with some tales that had everyone in the room exchanging "knowing glances" in between belly-laughs – but this one seems over the top, even for IJ ;^)

Response:

1/10/00 Ruling 611/b In the Matter:   First use of Word "beer" in Western Clave Thread Ruling: Dismissal of Query. Reason: Mere use of the word "beer" does not constitute an offense, unless the word(s) "Budwiser," or "Bud," or any similar, are used in the same post as the word "beer." Issued by Order of , , , Thread Police Summary Justice Authority "To Serve and Protect" Have a nice day – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                 anything you say can be used against you …

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Ken Fortenberry wrote Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer … Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread.

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse.  How would that work? —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

Pretty shitty for the 1st floor tenant, I’d imagine… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Been in that very house. We had eaten a bunch of green chjili in Chayanne at the radeo the night before and were dam glad to drive up upon it. Luckly it is a four holer and the seats do not6 line up.   chill Wills my traveling mate and I went upstairs and we sent the greek belly dancer downstairs. Boys it was bad.  Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C.

Response:

To hell with the beer.  I’m still trying to visualize a two-story outhouse. How would that work?

It wouldn’t, and that’s the joke.

Response:

[deleted] To hell with the beer.

To hell with beer ? 30 DAYS IN THE HOLE ! NEXT ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" B.M.P.I.A.

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer and check out the sights. I took a picture which accidentaly turned out very good. This is unusual for me, but when I show off this picture of a two story outhouse, most turn it over to see where the postcard is from. It seems like they had torn down some old buildings from all over the state and reassembled them in this little town I guess as sort of a tourist thing. At any rate I can’t remember the name of the town. It could have been Virginia City or it could be some other little town in the area. Does anyone know which town I am talking about? Most folks remember it if they have ever seen a two story outhouse. It is not a bad place to burn up some film. At any rate I would encourage all to bring a camera and to remember to take pictures of things other than fish. Big Dale

Response:

Back in the early 80’s on one of my trips from the summer hell of Texas in August, one of my friends and I pulled our motorcycles up in a little town that I think is a little west of Ennis and decided to drink a beer …

Awww shit, now you’ve done it, you mentioned beer in a Western ‘Clave thread. I can hear the thread cop sirens in the distance … — Ken Fortenberry- you have the right to remain on topic,                  anything you say can be used against you …

Response:

Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

Response:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

Response:

I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

We went in last September (early) into the northern part of the park and did fairly well on smallmouth catching quite a few in the 17-19" class.  Most of them were shallow to about 8′

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Question:

: Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top : of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the : rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again : (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and : I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a : really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. :   : Fred Rickson I had a similar experience with some Gortex Atlantis raingear I bought about 20 years ago.  It never was water resistent let alone water proof.  I have several other later pieces of Gortex gear which are much better. :   :   — Isaac(Ike) B. Wilder That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Response:

Well, my goretex waders work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Response:

Well, my goretex waders work. Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi All, The original Gore-Tex became contaminated or dirty and then leaked. That was many years ago. Now they have Gore-Tex jackets, pants, gloves, hats, boots and waders. It now has an anti-contamination feature that really made the difference. Gore-Tex, like many long term products has gone through many evolutions. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Fred,     My wife bought me for Christmas an Orvis Gortex wading jacket. Since that time I have used it on the rivers and lakes from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland. Throughout that period I encountered everything from steady and heavy downpours to biting cold snow squalls. The jacket performed superably trough all and I am continually thanking her for this purchase. The coat has no yet soaked through, though I will say that it does get "heavy" with water after several hours of standing in the rain. The nice aspect of the Orvis coat is that they put an unconditional five year guarantee on the jacket for everything from barbwire tears to leakage…either way they fix or replace. I think some of the other coats on the market such as Simms, Patagonia, LL Bean and even Cabelas own name brand wading jacket are all good quality. Yes, Gortex has improved alot since when it was first marketed. Hope this helps. Cheers, Colin Dartmouth, NS

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writes: will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987). You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?

No, I lived in Troutdale and then in Sandy (east of Portland towards Mt. Hood). The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks.

The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.                       Good Fishing,                          Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

Response:

[deleted] The rivers I primarily fished were the Sandy, the Clackamas (main stem and North Fork), the Salmon, Eagle Creek (the one near Estacada), and  the North Umpqua.    Once in a blue moon I’d fish the Wilson or the Trask.  Also fished the Deschutes, the Williamson, Fort Creek, Spring creek, and Squaw Creek in Southern and Central Oregon.  The GPS-2 standard Gore-tex such as the Orvis Tailwaters wading jacket will easily hold up to this type of use.

Not me man…I’m staying right in my dry and warm living room until the GPS-3’s are actually shipping….I can’t believe you actually fished the Eagle in a GPS-2…what were you thinking man ? What kind of waders do you have for those massive balls of yours to even try such a stunt ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

Response:

I wasn’t going to say anything, since the subject was "GoreTex" per se, but I have been absolutely overjoyed with the "Dry Plus" jacket I bought from Cabellas for about half what the competition wanted. Now I want their waders in the same fabric. Again, very competitively priced. Look good, and my wife wants to wear my stuff… Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Your right about first generation gore-tex being of poor quality… WL Gore acted quickly to fix these problems completely though..My first set of Gore-Tex raingear was 3rd generation and hasn’t leaked a bit, and my new wading jacket (Cabella’s Gore-Tex) is incredible… — Chris Schmelzer, MS-2 Medical College of Wisconsin Milwaukee, WI 53208

Response:

will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).

You didn’t spend all that time living in Ontario or Baker City…did you?  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.

Have you spent all day walking in a brush field?? In western Oregon?? Does it work then??  If I spend that much money it really needs to work in a situation other than downtown Portland or a tourist on a rainy day walk on a trail.  Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks.

Hi Fred, When Gore-tex first came out lots of people made waterproof rain gear out of it.  A lot of them didn’t know what they were doing and either didn’t seal the seams, or sealed them correctly.  Gore-tex got a real black eye from this and they quickly changed their licensing agreements so people couldn’t call it Gore-tex if they didn’t follow the Gore-tex approved construction methods. This made a huge difference and they started rebuilding their reputation. However, Gore-tex still had some problems with salt and dirt clogging it up, and also had a problem with some chemicals.  About 7 years ago they came out with a second generation Gore-tex that is not bothered by either.  The current Gore-tex is an expanded PTFE membrane and works great.  When it gets dirty, you wash it with Tide.  When water stops beading up on the outer fabric (typical with heavy use after 5 or 6 years), you re-treat the outer fabric with Tectron or Scotchguard.  Even if the outer fabric loses its DWR (Durable Water Repellancy) and gets completely waterlogged, you still won’t get wet.  You may feel like you’re wet because the water is flush up against the membrane when the outer fabric’s DWR is gone, but when you take it off, you’re dry.  Re-new the DWR as needed for best comfort. Gore-tex has a couple of "water repellancy" standards they test designs against.  The most stringent is the GPS2 standard.  The North Face, Marmot, and a number of other  backpacking equipment manufacturers have designs that meet this standard.  Orvis has a Gore-tex fishing jacket called the Tailwater’s Wading Jacket that is GPS2 certified.  Any products that meet this standard will easily keep you dry and comfortable in the worst Oregon weather (I lived in Oregon from 1976 to 1987).  The main drawback with Gore-tex is the price – they are spendy.  The performance now is superb.  If you’re still worried about getting stuck, just be sure to buy from a company or a dealer that has a 100% satisfaction guarantee.                        Hope this helps,                            Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

Response:

Fred Rickson schrieb in Nachricht Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Hi Fred, I had the same problem, my wife and I bought two very expensive Goretex fishing jackets which we were told was the best there is , we used them a couple of times and then took them back,because we were soaked after an hour or so of solid rain, the dealer said he couldnt understand it, but wouldnt take them back.  I would never buy this stuff again. We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF ! Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

We now have Sympatex jackets, which are lighter, cheaper and WATERPROOF !

I don’t have anything against Gore-Tex, but I agree that Sympatex is lighter, cheaper and more comfortable to wear.  I also have a "Triple Point Ceramic" anorak made by Lowe Alpine that is impervious to wind and rain and is (IMHO) the ultimate for hiking, fishing, etc., in bad conditions. Dan

Response:

Many years ago, when Goretex first came out, my wife and I bought two top of the line sets of rain gear.  We would be soaked after standing in the rain fishing all day.  We took them back and have not used Goretex again (using rubber instead).  But, is the product really waterproof today….and I mean standing or walking all day in a good Oregon rain.  I still mean a really good, expensive set.  Please advise.  Thanks. Fred Rickson

Response:

Question:

taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

— LET YOUR HOOK BE ALWAYS CAST; IN THE POOL WHERE YOU LEAST EXPECT IT, THERE WILL BE A FISH.                                           -OVID- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -taxes, sex & flyfishing As is usual this time of year, today I had sex with  Uncle Sam….he screwed me good this time. At least it will be another year before I get reamed again. I didn’t even enjoy the post-coitus cigarette. What I did enjoy was going to a neat little back country stone-creek that is chock full of wild fish and I won’t divulge the name of it. Let’s just say it’s nowhere near North Carolina nor Key West. I’ve been meaning to fish this stretch for years and finally made it today. I parked at an easy access point and started working upstream about 4 pm and picked up a couple of small wild browns and rainbows on a size 16 ehc and than landed a nice ‘bow who ripped the elk hair off the fly.  In a lackadaisical mood, I left the wingless "caddis" tied on and fished it just as a full-shanked hackled fly. I couldn’t believe it as I continued to catch fish on this half-dressed fly. So far, I had been working upstream through a series of riffles and pockets and an occasional small pool. As I came around a bend, a big beautiful pool greeted me with a nice waterfall at the head. Ahhhh, the promised land. I finally changed flies to another full-bodied ehc. I surveyed my surroundings and determined that if I was going to get my fly to where that big moving shadow was, it was going to take one hell of a soft roll cast. Unbelievably,  I succeeded with my effort and was rewarded with a solid 14 inch wild rainbow that ripped back and forth through the pool. Usually, when that happens all the other fish inhabiting a pool go a hiding. Not this pool. I actually took three more smaller fish before they wised up to my presence. I shortly debated with myself  to call it a day versus climbing up and around the falls. I climbed. A little while later with no broken bones, I stepped back into the creek. A hatch of Hendricksons (kinda early in the season I thought, but it has been warm as of late) greeted me and I switched flies quickly to match them. I was continually rewarded with fish as I moved through a gorge section of the creek. Up ahead, I heard what sounded like thunder and as a I came out of the gorge I was taken aback in complete awe. A vertical waterfall at least 100 feet high emptied into this big deep pool. Spray from the fall was reaching me at least a 100 feet away. Pretty damn awesome. I changed flies to a size 12 march brown and approached the pool slowly and began casting the fly into the exits with no luck. I picked up a rainbow from the center and as I was bringing him in something big attacked him. Time to change flies I say…. I put on a big screaming yellow/black wooly-bugger and double-hauled it across the pool and started stripping it back in like there was no tomorrow. Cast and retrieve. I casted and retrieved countless times with no luck. I changed flies to a wally-melon (an aborted wooly-bugger to the inanely curious) and had a resounding strike on the first cast. Big fish, a real big fish. About five minutes later as I released the two-foot or so brownie, I lit another cigarette that was far more satisfying. –walt   4-14-98

walt, wake up…… WAKE UP WALT!!

Response:

Question:

Okay, with this post, we’ve established absolutely nothing. Everyone is going to have their own opinions. But, if you will note the subject ‘-freshwater fish-’ then you will find that the original poster might have wondered about the best freshwater gamefish. Last time I checked, tarpon and mullet aren’t freshwater fish. Since that established nothing, why not establish nothing again? Which saltwater fish is king? Thanks, Bryce

Response:

Okay, with this post, we’ve established absolutely nothing. Everyone is going to have their own opinions. But, if you will note the subject ‘-freshwater fish-’ then you will find that the original poster might have wondered about the best freshwater gamefish. Last time I checked, tarpon and mullet aren’t freshwater fish.

FYI….They live in both fresh and salt water….  Since that established nothing, why not establish nothing again? Which saltwater fish is king? Thanks, Bryce

WHALE SHARK on a 8 wgt. fished with a 1000 naught, 64 inch, 15# dumbell head/eye chartreuse/white clouser with a 150 lb shock tippet. Bimini twist optional. seriously… Permit me to vote *PERMIT*. (btw, I’ve never had the pleasure of catching one with a flyrod…but years ago I did land one on a light spinner outfit in the Florida Keys and that memory still burns bright in my gray matter, or what’s left of it.)

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In my meager opinion, pound for pound ( or ounce for ounce) bluegills are the most fun to catch.  Tying on a tiny midge, or a fair sized popper for a big fat "sunnie" is probably the most fun one can have on a hot summer’s day.  Next time you fish for these little guys, notice how vicious they can be!  It’s great!   If sunfish grew to be the size of muskies, I’d never wade or swim in a lake or pond again!  :) John W. Kramer                           Clearwater Outfitters                   WE ENDORSE CATCH AND RELEASE (717) 938-3423

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If sunfish grew to be the size of muskies, I’d never wade or swim in a lake or pond again!  :)

Hell, they try to be dangerous at the size they are now…    Have you ever accidently stood in a bluegill’s nest while swimming?  They will not hesitate to bite you.   And if you put one in your aquarium at home, they will quickly claim the whole damn tank as their territory, and do their best to kill the other fish, bigger or not. Tough little buggers, and one of God’s greatest gifts to the fly fisherman! Bob Scott

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   For King, Snook. Tarpon run a close second, bonefish third, nothing beats Ladyfish on trout tackle (fourth) and for sheer power, #5 vote goes to the Jack Crevalle.

Response:

I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.

Atlantic Salmon in a lake in Oregon?  How did they get there?  I’m not surprised they’re struggling! — Phil Jones Swansea, S Wales

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You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote.     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?

Gotta agree with you James, Of all the west coast salmonids the sockeye does the goofiest things when hooked. Tailwalks and high jumps are one thing but to watch a 10lb. sockeye go 3 or 4 feet in the air while wrapping line around itself like an out of control winch is something else indeed. Not much for long runs, but they seem almost epileptic in their behaviour when close to the boat or shore. Pound for pound the most powerful fish has to be the steelhead ( on the West coast ) Can’t comment on the Atlantics as we won’t be able to catch them here for a few more years (a couple more involuntary escapements from the local fish farms otta do it!) "Catch and release everything you legally have to, or don’t want to eat"

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I have fought some 3-5 LB shad that struggled and ripped line off more than a 20+ LB steelhead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Question for fellow flyfishers:    In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?   The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic  salmon?  I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly? Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

You shouldn’t limit your question so much. I’ve been a Salmon and Steelhead guide for about 6 years now, and have caught 60 plus pound King Salmon, and 20 plus pound Steelhead. I thought the Steelhead were the fightingest fish I ever put a hook to, until I hooked into a fresh Sockeye. The 9 pound Sockeye did more than any of the Steelhead I’ve ever batttled, so thats the species that gets my vote.

Right.  Ive seen fresh sockeye so enthusiastic they jump 10 feet out of the river, land on the bank, then tail-flop themselves back in, before you can reel in the slack!  I saw one jump and hit the fisherman in his chest one time. — -Wayne Trzyna                           Fight spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition  http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~trzyna    See http://www.cauce.org/

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Carp.  Survive anywhere.  Dams, cows and polllution haven’t killed’em. Bar room brawlers on light tackle.  At least as spooky and hard to catch as other species mentioned….specially on a fly. — Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past       I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

I DONT GIVE A RATS  ASS ABOUT WHICH FISH IS KING,THEY’RE ALL FUN ON THE LONG ROD.AND ANOTHER THING,HOW IN THE HELL DID A MULLET GET THAT FAR UP THE ST. JOHN’S?AND I GUESS THE 64$ QUESTION IS HOW DID YOU GET IT TO HIT A FLY LINE!

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TARPON THATS ALL I’VE GOT TO SAY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past       I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl. I DONT GIVE A RATS  ASS ABOUT WHICH FISH IS KING,THEY’RE ALL FUN ON THE LONG ROD.AND ANOTHER THING,HOW IN THE HELL DID A MULLET GET THAT FAR UP THE ST. JOHN’S?AND I GUESS THE 64$ QUESTION IS HOW DID YOU GET IT TO HIT A FLY LINE!

      Mullet are often in the St.John’s past Palatka and are legal to spear fish in salt run. Most of the St.Johns is tide water and is shrimped with cast nets, sting rays are caught as far south as sanford and the European ell comes upstream as far as Lake Monro as well as croaker. Now as to getting a mullet to bite on a fly line, it requires "chumming" with chicken feed as follows- Take a handfull of chicken feed and dampen it forming a semi cohesive ball, throw the ball into the water and they will come. The mullet often roil the water to a foam. After throwing the "chum" into the water fallow quickly with any slow sinking fly in the middle of the feeding and hang on. By the way The rodman spill way is part of the Oklawaha system and slows the millions of gallons spewed from silver springs to the St.Johns river. It is heavy with strippers, reds, catfish, bass, and various species both fresh and salt. While I lived in San Mateo, it was one of my favorite fishing spots. Many salt water species travel far up the St.Johns to spawn.

Response:

 Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight. Right. One of the most enjoyable things to do is walk to a bream pond and pull out those thrashing blugills one after another for hours on end. Bryce

I vote along with you guys. Ounce for ounce, the mighty bluegill is one feisty fish. –Walt

Response:

What ever is on the end of my line at the time…. I have had my mouth go completely dry, I was so excited the first fish I caught with a fly I had tied myself… It was a small bream.   Same feeling when a nice trout.   Same feeling when a "baby" four foot tarpon "takes high air", and same feeling when a brown finally decides my offering is worthy……   I get excited by em all… and that’s after 58 years….  I still dream about rank fish for greatness in battle I would list them as 0.  Bream – especially on a very light long rod… 1. Atlantic Salmon 2. Small mouth bass 3.  Steelhead trout 4.  Tarpon 5.  King Salmon and one of the toughest never give up, never lay over fish, I have ever caught is a char… I don’t necessarily like the way a brown fights because they don’t show themselves… Supposedly there is a strange fish in New Guinea that requires 1/8 cable to hold and a 55 horse power motor going in full in opposite direction to keep it out of the trees and a 130 pound/wire shock tippet and one still stripped the gears out of the motor pulling the boat against the prop!!!!!  least that’s the way I heard the story but have never caught one. I need to go fishing… hope this weather clears… Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

Response:

Supposedly there is a strange fish in New Guinea that requires 1/8 cable to hold and a 55 horse power motor going in full in opposite direction to keep it out of the trees and a 130 pound/wire shock tippet and one still stripped the gears out of the motor pulling the boat against the prop!!!!!  least that’s the way I heard the story but have never caught one.

I’ve never caugh one either, but the do exist. Papuan bass or New Guinea black bass are reputed to be awesome stump pullers. Your descriptions are probably not far from the truth. They are a fresh water lutjanid (snapper) and have been caught to around 50lb. Lefty Kreh has a video with some New Guinea bass action, and if you see it, Greg Norman (golfer) has fishing video that covers them too. John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’  

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Walter G. Winter wrote I vote along with you guys. Ounce for ounce, the mighty bluegill is one feisty fish.

and don’t forget the penalty for mishandling these little buggers —                                                             -dnc- to reply, change ‘dnc’ to ‘dcollins’ in email address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –Walt

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  Question for fellow flyfishers:     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?     I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly?  Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

    In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?  

James Henshall wrote more than a century ago it was the "black" bass i.e. smallmouth. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

Response:

In my experience the most thrilling fighter is the Steelhead.  They do a jumping, tail walking, head shaking fight that is unparalleled. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO  http://www/ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Question for fellow flyfishers:     In your experience, which fish do you feel fights better?    The Coho salmon, Steelhead(rainbow), brown trout, or atlantic   salmon?     I always talk with fishermen who have varying opinions about the above fish.  Which is harder to entice with a fly?  Thanks for any opinions.——Muskie

Response:

 Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.

Right. One of the most enjoyable things to do is walk to a bream pond and pull out those thrashing blugills one after another for hours on end. Bryce

Response:

IMHO it is the one on the end of my line at the time. J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My $.02 worth: as a general rule, it seems to depend more on the water temperature and oxygen content than the variety of fish.   Example: I’ve heard that Atlantic Salmon are great fighters, but at Oregon’s Hosmer Lake in mid-summer they give a couple of puny runs, then float gasping on their sides like logs.    We have to stay by the fish until they get their ‘breath’ back to keep the always waiting eagles and osprey from snatching them from the surface.   It also seems that fish that are more naturally acclimated to warm water, like bluegill and bass, have more energy in the same conditions than transplants.     Pound for pound, after 30+ years of fly fishing, I think that bluegills and saltwater perch give the best fight.    If anyone ever creates a five pound bluegill that leaps while fighting, trout and steelhead hatcheries will be a thing of the past

      I enjoy trying to catch different species and have also been fishing since jesus was a kid. I most emphatically agree with you. Here in Florida we have what we call stump knockers which are BIG bream and they ain’t for a 2wt. In point of fact, for speed, length of run, and power, the lowly mullet when up the rivers beats a trout hands down. Another fish which should be running now in this area and exhibits unseen power is the American shad (not to be confused with the gizard shad). It is my understanding that carp are great fighters also but I’m reserving my opinion on them till I hook one.                                                      John Popp                                                    in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

The "mandrel" is made of steel with multiple tapers on it.  The tapers on the mandrels are used to arrive at the ID.  The ID in combination with the graphite thickness drives the OD which, in combination with the graphite modulus, give the black its action.  Many amndrels today have upwards of six taper changes on the tip. Dwight Talon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Response:

In answer to your question, yes mandrels are tapered steel rods which do to some degree determine the charistics of the rod by determining the degree of taper.  After a particular mandrel is chosen,dependant on the type of rod, a piece of resin impregnated graphite cloth is cut according to a pattern ( either compound or progressive taper ) and wraped very tightly around the mandrel under extreme pressure to cause the resin to bond and hold the cloth together and then the rod and mandrel are suspended tip down in an oven where they are subjected to extreme heat and pressure. Then the rods are removed and seperated from the mandrels and sanded, painted, and /or clear coated.  

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info – Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form). The graphite material is wrapped around the mandrel and then they are both put into an oven for a heat cured. The mandrel is then withdrawn from the blank and reused, over and over. Unless you want to become a manufacturer of rod blanks, knowledge of mandrel shape is of little importance to an average custom rod builder (rod wrapper), except providing one of many needed bits of knowledge about a blank’s expected action. I’d expect the mandrel’s shape would be a closely-held trade secret of the mfg. company. Don Burns

Response:

Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?  

Hi Mark, Graphite comes as a cloth which is layed out on a table and cut to a pattern.  This is simply done placing a pattern over the cloth and then cutting the graphite cloth with a box knife (razor).  How the pattern is shaped will determine the wall thickness of the blank.  Graphite cut into a pattern is called a flag. The flags are then taken to the rolling machine.   Inside the rolling machine has been placed the correct mandrel for the section of the rod being manufactured.  Seperate mandrels are used for each piece of the rod.  The mandrel is a tapered steel rod that determines the inside diameter of the blank and the shape of the blank.  The combination of the cut of the pattern of the flag and the tapered shape of the mandrel determines the "taper" of the blank. A small heat iron is rubbed along the edge of the flag which makes it tacky and the tacky edge is slipped into the machine next to the mandrel. The tacky part of the flag adheres to the mandrel and th machine then rolls the graphite flag around the mandrel.  Heat shrink tape is then wrapped around the outside of the graphite and the mandrel with the shrink wrapped is removed from the rolling machine and hung up inside a walk-in oven.  The blank is then baked.  The heat activates the epoxies and resins in the graphite flag and the heat shrink tape compresses squeezing the graphite onto the  mandrel. When the gaphite is done cooking, it is removed from the oven and the blank is pulled off of the mandrel and the mandrel is used to make another rod.  The heat shrink tape leaves the ridges in the graphite that you see in many rods and the blank is finished at this point.  If the rod uses an external or internal ferrule (as opposed to the integral ferrule which is actually designed into the mandrel), it is attached at this point. Another step may ensue for cosmetic reasons and that is sanding off the ridges (scars from the heat shrink tape) and then coating the blank with an epoxy or varnish.  This last step is what allows rods to be made in different colors and have a smooth shiny surface instead of the dark gray color of the graphite itself. After the blank is constructed the rod is sypically splined and finished with guides, handle, reel seat, etc. This process commonly called rolling a rod.                          Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form). The graphite material is wrapped around the mandrel and then they are both put into an oven for a heat cured. The mandrel is then withdrawn from the blank and reused, over and over. Unless you want to become a manufacturer of rod blanks, knowledge of mandrel shape is of little importance to an average custom rod builder (rod wrapper), except providing one of many needed bits of knowledge about a blank’s expected action. I’d expect the mandrel’s shape would be a closely-held trade secret of the mfg. company. Don Burns

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of? Thanks for the info – Stainless steel, I guess. It’s not left in the rod blank (as implied by your wording above). Think of a mandrel as an internal mold (form).

Barbless Mandrel ?   ;0 TimW

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

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Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?

Stainless Steel Phil Koenig Manhattan Custom Tackle Ltd. http://fishdoc.com./ "I’m the boss, so WHATEVER I say is OK"

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Can anyone give me a education on the making of a graphite fly rod.  I understand that graphite fibers are wound around a mandrel.  What is this mandrel ( inner core of a rod? ) made of?   Thanks for the info –

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Did anyone see the segment on the opening of "trout" season in Missouri on the Osgood show this AM?  Call me a snob if you wish, but I thought the show was somewhere between disgusting and hilarious. Why don’t they save everyone the trouble, and give all applicants vouchers for 5 free trout at the local fish market? I’d love to hear your comments. Some sport there.

I’m a Missouri fly fisherman. Those openings in the trout parks are a tradition in this state, and the way I see it, the trout stamps and the one-day tags those folks buy pay for  the care of some pretty good water elsewhere that those crowds prob’ly don’t even know exist… Bob –

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I’m from Missouri and fish often at the state trout parks. I didn’t see the show but can imagine what it looked like. 3000 people isn’t unusual for opening day. No, I don’t consider you a snob. I don’t go to opening day and haven’t for 20 years. It’s a circus. The trout parks serve a purpose for us in Missouri (where are you from?) in that most of our water is too warm to support trout. There are some streams in the Ozarks that have trout but they are few and far between. So, during the summer, rather than not go at all a lot of us frequent the trout parks. After the crowd dies down. But, the best time is during the winter. We have a winter season from Oct. to Feb. Catch and Release only. That keeps most people away. I’ve been there when there were only 30 – 40 people on the entire stream. In some areas of the country that still would be a lot but it’s the best we have. Anyhow, one trip last winter my son and I were all alone for as far as we could see. No fish are stocked during the winter but there are some left over from the season stocking. Good luck, and tight lines.

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The State of MO is providing a product that is obviously in great demand. The people were all there by choice, I’m assuming. The funds generated at the four MO "trout parks" provide a big dose of bucks to the conservation efforts in MO. Also, if you’ve ever taken an eight year-old fishing only to have them give up after 15 minutes, you can appreciate the trout parks even more. Almost guaranteed results can be a real boon to a child.  My nephew vividly remembers a trip we to one of these parks. He’s kept his enthusiasm, in part to his success at a park I hope, through many fishless days. No, you won’t catch me at opening day. Nor will you see me there unless I’m there with a kid. And that will be mid-week. John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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 if you’ve ever taken an eight year-old fishing only to have them give up after 15 minutes, you can appreciate the trout parks even more. Almost guaranteed results can be a real boon to a child.  My nephew vividly remembers a trip we to one of these parks. He’s kept his enthusiasm, in part to his success at a park I hope, through many fishless days. No, you won’t catch me at opening day. Nor will you see me there unless I’m there with a kid. And that will be mid-week.

John, I agree. My 12-year old has very vivid memories of a couple of trips we made to one of the parks.  It’s a marvelous way to introduce kids to fly fishing. Bob

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