Question:

<snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here.

George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe. Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Eugene, I don’t recognize your "handle," so I’ll guess you are either an infrequent poster, a lurker, or new to ROFF.  If you don’t realize what’s up with Ginkles (Gehrke), only a google groups search, several hours of sometimes-humorous, sometimes-sad reading will truly bring you up to speed.  A by-no-means complete, albeit completely representative, selection of his greatest hits can be found at www.ginkstinks.com (I have nothing to do with this site, but I highly recommend it).  That said: Of course you should tie what pleases you and/or your target fish.  If you are tying flies for fishing, IMO, tie what works, regardless of materials – some of the now-classic patterns, and now-traditional patterns that were mods of "classics," started as bits of long johns, jacket lining, and other "non-traditional" materials.  If you are tying for your, or other people’s, enjoyment, such as for "display" or presentation flies, then, by all means, tie with what you feel is appropriate for that context.  Tying "classics" is, as you correctly point out, a fine tradition, and a fine hobby unto itself. TC, R

Response:

<snip You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great.

Nope.  Didn’t get your point, and you didn’t get mine.  I don’t tie anything in anybody’s style but mine. Fudd’s First Law of Opposition applies. My work is done. –Stan (off to Dr. Beddoes Pneumatic Institute)

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso!

An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post….

But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) Wolfgang

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :)

My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! An "instant classic" literary vignette on virtually every post…. But not all for the same reasons.  This one has merit.    :) My mistake – I didn’t know expresso was a legitimate variant of espresso. It’s funny how the more you make fun of people, the more you learn…

Somebody, (two people) out of 9000 Active & Inactive (stalkers of roff) finally got it!  Jeff?  You get a gold star next to your name this morning.  I’m so impressed,  you drew me out of semi retirement.  A+ my friend.  You get an A+! Imagine Wolfgang’s demeanor when onpresso?

Response:

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be…

        And gentlemen in England now a-bed         Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,         And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks         That heard with us Saint Ginkle’s bray. TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap…

Cheap or dear, at least he does the job himself! Wolfgang as in who else would?

Response:

rdean is crazier and loonier then Wolfgang on expresso! George who is sipping club soda

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. George: I’ll admit that I haven’t a clue what your point is most of the time. Like, for example, what the hell does the subject of this thread mean? So, elucidate some more: Were you referring to some particular magazine article or book reference or a posting here on roff or rofft that failed to use the original pattern and materials for some famous fly?  If so, a reference would have helped establish a context for your post.  Without a context, your post comes off as simple pontification and a plea for hero worship, both of which chafe.

Never strive to do this.  It could be your reading style?  :)))))))))) ! (just kidding) Apologies for failing to gel – it must be the pineapple. –Stan PS for Eugene Knapik: tie up all the traditional streamers you like.  It’s freedom of choice, man.  I love it.  Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

You’re doing just fine Stan. You got the point and I’m sure your Bate’s style Mickey Finns will work great. — George

Response:

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

When it comes to you, "I can" imagine. I picture you sitting on a big boulder with fist sized rock in your hand over your head.  You’re naked because you cannot imagine wearing clothes in you’re imagination.  Imagine that!  Between your legs are three little, itty-bitty rocks you’re about to try and crack open.  One is a little stone and the other two rocks are you’re own.  You have this confused look on your face Wolfgang. Sitting beside you, on the boulder is a real walnut.  In fact, there are several of them.  In addition to this scene, beside you sits a chimpanzee and he has broken walnut shells scattered all around him.  The chimp has his hand over its’ mouth.  Next to the chimp sits LaCourse with both his hands over his eyes screaming, "I CAN’T LOOK!!" Imagine yourself finally getting up the nerve to hit one of those stones . . . This is really unimaginable.  Can you imagine that Wolfie? I can’t.

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

Yes, indeed, and why not when you’re able? g.g.

Response:

……Some of my Mickey Finns look like Mickey Finns too.

Some of mine look more like Mickey Spillane……but it don’t matter……the fish hate ‘em…..like cops hate doughnuts. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there. Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :)

Try staying up for a week, consuming nothing but double espresso until the 8th day, and then eating 4 pounds of anchovy paste and a box of dry Grape Nuts, all washed down with about a gallon of grain alcohol Thunderdog, and then, find a carnival and buy an hour on the Tilt-a-Whirl…come home and try to post, from memory, the entire "St Crispen’s Day" speech from Henry V, as "your good friend" Yogi Berra would have made it, embellished with a critique of the strategies used in the Battle of Agincourt….in the first person plural, of course… TA-DA!  Ginklespew!  Literary Ginklespew, but Ginklespew shall it be… TC, R who knows Ginkles just holds his manhood, such as it may be, cheap… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life.

You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Response:

My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Most often I’m afield and learning by doing.  Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. You once said you live in a world we can only imagine.  Well, I have to agree with you there.

Seems we are bound to disagree about everything.  Personally, I CANNOT imagine!    :) Wolfgang who has always prided himself on having a fair to horseshit imagination.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Use of new materials, modern shortcuts, variation, adaptation to local conditions are what tying your own flies is all about.  Only collectors care if a particular fly is tied according to some magical formula using eye of jungle cock and wing of argus.  Most of us only care about catching fish, and we tie flies that hopefully work on our home waters.  Trial and error experimentation is what drives the evolution of working flies, not magic formulas. There was a lengthy thread on rofft earlier this year about why people tie their own flies, and the ability to adapt a pattern over time to be more effective is probably the biggest reason.  It’s why I tie my own caddisses instead of buying the cookie cutter versions from a fly shop. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

I understand what you’re saying Stan but your spin off my post doesn’t quite gel to what I was trying to say.  I will elucidate upon it a little more for media clarification here. Let’s mention the Alaskan Mary Ann and Mickey Finn Streamers.  These are specific names of the original streamers.  If you, as a fly tier are going to write an article on the Mickey Finn, the literary world will assume you’re tying the original version per "Bates" recorded version. IF, on the other hand you’re going to write about the Mickey Finn using modern day artificial materials, then in my opinion, you cannot and should not refer to the fly as THE Mickey Fin but rather The Mickey Fin (AM Version).  This means, Artificial Materials Version, a modern day deviation.  It may be better than the original and then again it may not.   The short of it is this.  There is only one original way to tie the Mickey Finn. (as an example) If you deviate from that original version in any way, your fly has to (should) give notice or credit to "any" changes.  It would be the responsible thing to do if and when anyone writes about traditional patterns in the future. George Gehrke

Response:

        (self serving simpering snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. <incessant droning snipped Big freaking deal. Fly fishing and fly tying is not a hero worship contest.  The best fishermen and tyers I’ve met were not big name pros, but rather regular guys, carpenters, desk jockeys, doctors, computer geeks (gotta love the computer geeks), electricians and plumbers who just love the activity for it’s own sake.  We will tie our flies and go fishing regardless of the cult figures who try to make a living out of our sport. –Stan (tying for the hell of it)

        stan, surely you see that the whole point of that pompous blathering was george’s attempt to have us peons recognize that he walks daily with the legends of the sport—and, ultimately, to demonstrate that he, too, is part of the same immortal pantheon.         yeah, i figured you understood. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

geez guys, I usually keep a box of streamers buried in my vest to play with when there isn’t much doing…some of them look a little like the patterns in that lovely Bates book….that being said, if I was tying streamers for sport, I’d be going after the classic look, original materials and the whole snotty bit…why not, its a fine tradition… Eugene Knapik Toronto

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better. Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport. DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann’s should the Streamer Fly Fishing Public rediscover just how deadly a fly this old mainstay is.  Besides being beautiful just to look at, The Alaskan Mary Ann isn’t known very well today.  If it wasn’t for the fact that the majority of today’s fly fishermen are just as happy to use an artificial substitute to replace the iridescent qualities of Polar Bear Hair, it wouldn’t be a good idea to state this flies praises.  Consider, for instance, that one has to kill one, very large, very wild, very remote living, very uncooperative, animal that wants to do just one thing.  Eat you! Is it any wonder that any of us (self included)should be able to figure something else out jus to tie ONE FLY out of one very unusual hide?  The price is just too, too much. But..but..but you said…so, let’s recap: if you don’t use the original material, it’s "sacrilege" that "pollutes" the sport, but you yourself do it…oh, wait, I see it’s a confession…well, carry on, then… However! I don’t like where this is heading – a confession, but with an excuse… Some of us still have some Polar Bear from over fifty years ago and with us, the original Alaskan Mary Ann still lives, via Bates’ versions taken directly from his wonderful classic.  (Today, new materials replace the need to kill Polar Bears) Sacrilege!  Pollution, I say… Polar Bear is a very difficult fur to duplicate artificially because some of it has a certain gold tinge to it.  I’ve been able to duplicate that in the series of fly tying materials we manufacture. AHA!  It’s not just a confession with an excuse, it’s SPAM! (name-dropping section edited for space) …Bates…Today’s Masters,  such as Dan Byford of Zonker fame… Dave Whitlock and unsung to most…is the fact that Ernest Schwiebert has magic, artistic hands…such as Doug Swisher… Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Joe DiMaggio, Jackie Robinson…hey, I wrote the names so I’m a famous dead baseball legend, too!  Boy, this is cool! Cookie Monster, Big Bird, Oscar, Gink…hey, you’re a Muppet! To become a fly fisherman and to be known "as a fly fisherman" is not a gift that is handed to us.  It requires work and if not years of work, Sorta like "Ginkles," "jehrke," "putz," and one of my personal favs, "Muppethead"… for some, its a lifetime of study and dedication.  If any of us thought we knew it all, most would stop fly fishing for it has become boring for them. So you’ve quit fishing?  Oh, clever – you wrote "most"… My life as a fly fisherman is a world in which I’m surrounded by books and of many things I’ve invented for fly fishing and its’ patrons. Um, invented?  Well, OK, to be fair, maybe the combination flyrod, tomato stake, and tiki torch is all yours, but I don’t know if that will get you a place in the history books, Ginkles…I mean, someone will point out the damn things shoulda been burnt anyway, and about all they’re good for is plant-staking, and it sorta knocks the cache of ownership from your "invention"… Most often I’m afield and learning by doing. And you’ll never wizz on an electrified fence again, right? Sometimes, I will sit down and write a short article so as to give back a little of what I’ve learned, I agree: Nothing gained, nothing ventured…. if just a little of that cloak which surrounds me and which was my life. Have you considered using mothballs in the cloakroom, Ginkles?

Response:

I regard Bates book on streamers a classic for modern times mainly because the materials are logged accurately.  I find myself going back to Bates tying instructions more and more since I purchased the NOR Vise because with it, the materials are spun better and the shapes are well honed due to this rotary’s smooth nature.  Self control can’t be better.

Does NOR make a keyboard? Somehow, I enjoy the names of such streamers as "The Black Nosed Dace, The Alaskan Mary Ann, or the classic Mickey Finn," which are explained in perfect detail without being bastardized by modern short cuts or tying techniques which can have a half dozen or more un-original opinions on how to tie the classics.  It’s sacrilege and the new versions of such flies changed in print really makes the art of fly tying these classics a polluted sport.

DAMN STRAIGHT!  Let’s get back to the original twelve of Walton…except his were derivative of the _Treatyse_….so let’s get back to those twelve…anybody got a source for "rotty wull" and "redde hakyll?"  But shucks, that won’t work, because the "Dame" was apparently a 15th century Ginkles – a mostly made up, derivative plagiarism, added to sell stuff (in this case, books, and while looking to the _Treatyse_ for contextual historic info is useful, it is what it is…).  What are we to do? Now, don’t misunderstand me

No danger of that…SPLORK VANG MU to the nTH power… between what I like and dislike when it comes to relieving fly tying material pressures upon the creatures of our realm.  For instance, there just isn’t enough Polar Bears to go around to supply the fur to tie enough Alaskan Mary Ann

Question:

Hi, could anyone suggest a stream, pond, or other fly fishing within a short drive from Monterey CA?  I will be there in October and hoped I could try some western fishing.  (I live and fish on the Gulf Coast.) Thanks in advance, john

Response:

There are a few rivers in the area…. You should check the regulations before coming but here they are- Big Sur River, San Lorenzo River and Soquel Creek.  You may be a bit early as these are Steelhead rivers but it would be fun to wet a line.  If you don’t mind driving 2 hrs I could really list tons of great water. Thanks,Forrest — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Win any Sage Rod at FlyFishingREVIEW.com!!! Hi, could anyone suggest a stream, pond, or other fly fishing within a short drive from Monterey CA?  I will be there in October and hoped I could try some western fishing.  (I live and fish on the Gulf Coast.) Thanks in advance, john

– Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

If you want to try fishing the surf, you can fish for surf perch right off a number of beaches.  I have seen a number of discussions on this on Dan blanton’s web site, www.danblanton.com.  Check out the archives for previous discussions.  I have fished Manrissa, (sp??) Beach a few times and have had a great time. Chris

Response:

Question:

Wayne Hart: Well Joe, you could cruise down here Thursday evening, we’ll leave Fredericksburg Friday morning and have you back this far by the next Wednesday evening.  You won’t need much luggage.  I suspect you’ll hold the rod all the way down and you can sleep on the floor of Clave Central curled up in a little ball around that rod!!  (nobody’ll notice you don’t change underwear anyway). —

Hey, wait a minute!  You’re giving away MY floor space.  If he changes his underwear (underware sometimes at moments like this) at least daily, and helps me with breakfast, *then* he can sleep on the couch at clave central.  But he has to cover himself because some of the YLs from the Pixie might come by with Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hmm…..think I’ll be doin my own cookin over there in the campground…..Ken, you and Wolfgang like stir fry? fahitas? kraut and

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wayne Hart: Well Joe, you could cruise down here Thursday evening, we’ll leave Fredericksburg Friday morning and have you back this far by the next Wednesday evening.  You won’t need much luggage.  I suspect you’ll hold the rod all the way down and you can sleep on the floor of Clave Central curled up in a little ball around that rod!!  (nobody’ll notice you don’t change underwear anyway). — Hey, wait a minute!  You’re giving away MY floor space.  If he changes his underwear (underware sometimes at moments like this) at least daily, and helps me with breakfast, *then* he can sleep on the couch at clave central.  But he has to cover himself because some of the YLs from the Pixie might come by with Dave LaCourse

Response:

Hmm…..think I’ll be doin my own cookin over there in the campground…..Ken, you and Wolfgang like stir fry? fahitas? kraut and

Can’t speak for Wolfgang, we haven’t discussed menus yet. Given my druthers, I’m a vegetarian, but I’m not inflexible on a fishin’ trip. When "car camping" I tend to eat a lot of pasta and fresh veggies from the local grocery store. The local grocery stores in and around Linville, NC are WAY beyond adequate. There’s a bunch of really, really, RICH folk livin’ in that area. I saw an ‘86 Lafite-Rothschild in the grocery store ! No kiddin’. I have a fairly well equipped "camp kitchen", no reason we can’t have a communal kitchen. Let’s plan on it. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Heck Joe, I bet there are a lot of guys at the clave that will change underwear with you.  Especially if they got the drizzles after drinking all night and had an accident. Ernie  Well Joe, you could cruise down here Thursday evening, we’ll leave  Fredericksburg Friday morning and have you back this far by the next  Wednesday evening.  You won’t need much luggage.  I suspect you’ll hold the  rod all the way down and you can sleep on the floor of Clave Central curled up in a little ball around that rod!!  (nobody’ll notice you don’t

change  underwear anyway).

Response:

Heck Joe, I bet there are a lot of guys at the clave that will change underwear with you.  Especially if they got the drizzles after drinking all night and had an accident.

The geezers at clave central at past claves just threw their shorts in a pile when they went to bed and then rooted through for the cleanest pair when they got up. Last one up generally got the ones LaPlac wore the day before<g. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmm…..think I’ll be doin my own cookin over there in the campground…..Ken, you and Wolfgang like stir fry? fahitas? kraut and Can’t speak for Wolfgang, we haven’t discussed menus yet. Given my druthers, I’m a vegetarian, but I’m not inflexible on a fishin’ trip. When "car camping" I tend to eat a lot of pasta and fresh veggies from the local grocery store. The local grocery stores in and around Linville, NC are WAY beyond adequate. There’s a bunch of really, really, RICH folk livin’ in that area. I saw an ‘86 Lafite-Rothschild in the grocery store ! No kiddin’. I have a fairly well equipped "camp kitchen", no reason we can’t have a communal kitchen. Let’s plan on it. — Ken Fortenberry

Depends John.  Taken individually, all of the above meet with my hearty approval, but if you’re talking about a single meal we gotta talk. With a well stocked grocery store nearby there’s no reason we shouldn’t eat like kings.  Not exactly a Cordon Bleu chef myself but I do all the cooking at home and CAN throw together a passable meal or two.  Now all we gotta do is find a way to keep the slavering hordes from clave central from invading us at meal times.    

Response:

Wolfgan dreams: Now all we gotta do is find a way to keep the slavering hordes from clave central from invading us at meal times.    

Are you kidding?  With Tom’s smoked turkey and smoked ham, IJ’s spaghetti, my tacos, Jeffy’s eggs, we will probably have to put a sentry at the door.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

Kinda of like when you support Timbo’s C&K drivel in roff and then practice C&R on fishing trips? Can you say hypocrite?

Why do you always arrive on the scene like a pickled egg and beer fart. Can you say BMP? Peter

Response:

Why do you always arrive on the scene like a pickled egg and beer fart.

alot….you just caused an olfactory flashback of the most malodorous kind.

Response:

I’m really looking forward to giving away its virginity asap.

I recently learned a new word for this – handsel – first use, inauguration… Read in "A Man May Fish" by TC Kingsmill Moore (an Irish Judge). — Nogood Boyo

Response:

A few weeks ago, I was to be the lucky random recipient of a new rod from Mike C.   Despite my initial euphoria, I soon reasoned that it was a gift for which I was unworthy; and I did, in a difficult fit of altruism, decline accepting with a suggestion that the Clave raffle would be a more fitting destination for the prize.   That much is true. But now I’m coming clean on the rest.   I just can’t have everybody thinking what a great guy I am without giving due acknowledgement to Mike.   As a personal gift, he sent me a rod anyway. It came yesterday, and it’s a 3-pc., 4 wt. beauty.   Naturally, I put a reel on it as soon as I got it out of the tube.   (I’d bought a new J. Ryall in anticipation.)   Yeah, with difficulty (for me) I could throw it for distance, even in the 15 kt wind last night, but so what.   On realistic distances, it cast like a dream.   I’m really looking forward to giving away its virginity asap.   Dave L. has already described the three he received for the Clave raffles, and I won’t add much to that except to say that the winners of those three will be truly fortunate ffers. I gave Mike a few parameters on my wants, needs, and habits, and let him surprise me.   He delivered with what may be the perfect rod for me.   It’s a better rod than I could afford to buy, and the friendship it represents gives it worth beyond measure.   Thanks, Mike. Joe F.

Response:

My pleasure Joe. I don’t think "unworthy" even enters into it, quite the reverse.  Hope the first one is a big one ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Joe Fleishman writes: It came yesterday, and it’s a 3-pc., 4 wt. beauty.   Naturally, I put a reel on it as soon as I got it out of the tube.   (I’d bought a new J. Ryall in anticipation.)   Yeah, with difficulty (for me) I could throw it for distance, even in the 15 kt wind last night, but so what.   On realistic distances, it cast like a dream.   I’m really looking forward to giving away its virginity asap.   Dave L. has already described the three he received for the Clave raffles, and I won’t add much to that except to say that the winners of those three will be truly fortunate ffers. I gave Mike a few parameters on my wants, needs, and habits, and let him surprise me.   He delivered with what may be the perfect rod for me.   It’s a better rod than I could afford to buy, and the friendship it represents gives it worth beyond measure.   Thanks, Mike. Joe F.

<BG  I’m happy for ya, Joe.  But even happier for Mike for doing it.  The friendship it represents is priceless.  Mike, you’re too much!!!! Now, Joe, what’s it gonna take to get you to the clave next month?  Day Tripper and I can pick you up on the way down.  Of course with him in the front seat, you in the back, and me driving, we would fit the cop’s profile of ne’r-do-wells.   Go fishin’! Dave LaCourse

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Now, Joe, what’s it gonna take to get you to the clave next month?  Day Tripper and I can pick you up on the way down.  Of course with him in the front seat, you in the back, and me driving, we would fit the cop’s profile of ne’r-do-wells.  

Kidnapped geezer? <g — Charlie…

Response:

M.C. , your an ACE man. Tight lines, Bob Smith * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Now, Joe, what’s it gonna take to get you to the clave next month?  Day Tripper and I can pick you up on the way down.  Of course with him in the front seat, you in the back, and me driving, we would fit the cop’s profile of ne’r-do-wells. Kidnapped geezer? <g

Speaking of which, I’m trying to figure out how much money this whole clave thing is going to cost me.  What is the recommended standard bail allotment?

Response:

Speaking of which, I’m trying to figure out how much money this whole clave thing is going to cost me.  What is the recommended standard bail allotment?

Wayno should know the going rate schedule. The clave orientation tour includes visits to the local emergency room and drunk tank so you won’t feel disoriented should you wake up in one or the other<g. — Charlie…

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A few weeks ago, I was to be the lucky random recipient of a new rod from Mike C.   Despite my initial euphoria, I soon reasoned that it was a gift for which I was unworthy; and I did, in a difficult fit of altruism, decline accepting with a suggestion that the Clave raffle would be a more fitting destination for the prize.   That much is true.

Joe, whatever you do, don’t break that rod in the door of your car. Wouldn’t that just be one of life’s little ironies? After all, MC doesn’t believe in warranties! You are the man, Mike. I’m glad to see that something measurably good has come from the killfile project. –Steve

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Joe, whatever you do, don’t break that rod in the door of your car. Wouldn’t that just be one of life’s little ironies? After all, MC doesn’t believe in warranties!

Don’t even THINK that!    If you jinx me, I’m comin’ out there after you. Joe F.

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Wolfgang: Speaking of which, I’m trying to figure out how much money this whole clave thing is going to cost me.  What is the recommended standard bail allotment?

Six hundred bucks.  Bring 800.  And if PJ is there, 1000. Dave LaCourse

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Six hundred bucks.  Bring 800.  

He can get by on a lot less if he stays away from the livestock. — Charlie…

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Six hundred bucks.  Bring 800. He can get by on a lot less if he stays away from the livestock. — Charlie…

have you ever known a wolf to stay away from livestock? bring 1200…. waldo

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Now, Joe, what’s it gonna take to get you to the clave next month?  Day Tripper and I can pick you up on the way down.  Of course with him in the front seat, you in the back, and me driving, we would fit the cop’s profile of ne’r-do-wells.   Kidnapped geezer? <g

LOL! Love it Charlie – but more likely it’ll be Joe holding up the "HELP US!" sign in the rear window… /daytripper (Crash Test Dummy #1)

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Well Joe, you could cruise down here Thursday evening, we’ll leave Fredericksburg Friday morning and have you back this far by the next Wednesday evening.  You won’t need much luggage.  I suspect you’ll hold the rod all the way down and you can sleep on the floor of Clave Central curled up in a little ball around that rod!!  (nobody’ll notice you don’t change underwear anyway). — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Fleishman writes: <BG  I’m happy for ya, Joe.  But even happier for Mike for doing it.  The friendship it represents is priceless.  Mike, you’re too much!!!! Now, Joe, what’s it gonna take to get you to the clave next month?  Day Tripper and I can pick you up on the way down.  Of course with him in the front seat, you in the back, and me driving, we would fit the cop’s profile of ne’r-do-wells. Go fishin’! Dave LaCourse

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Six hundred bucks.  Bring 800. He can get by on a lot less if he stays away from the livestock. — Charlie… have you ever known a wolf to stay away from livestock? bring 1200…. waldo

It’s not so much the individual figures that bother me as it is the escalation.  Get out of jail cards have doubled in just four hours! With twenty some days to go I hesitate to even speculate on where this will go.   Um……we’re kinda partial to Holsteins up here….I don’t suppose…..nah, fergit it.

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Question:

father/son stuff snipped, unfortunately I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek

story of average size Spring Creek brown trout snipped (just kidding folks) Peter:  good guy and guide (I know him),  and a tribute to the stream as well. Lot’s of us are working to keep it that way. Mark Faulkner (counting the days till the end of March……)

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My son Scott, was an avid spin fisherman but he didn’t seem really enthusiastic about taking to the fly.  His biggest problem was lack of success.  Unwittingly, I had compounded matters.  When we went fishing on a really tough bit of water, from his perspective, I seemed to be able to sniff out and take fish at will while he came up empty handed. Later on, I decided that a day in PA would be in order.  I contacted Don Bastien and arranged a weekend of fishing on Spring Creek Donny met us promptly at the Bush Hotel and after the usually introductions, we headed off for the creek.  Donny had promised to take us to some spots that usually did not attract  many other fishermen.  But when we arrived at a part of the creek lined with cottages, I had my doubts.  After suiting up and walking over to the stream bank, I could see fish rising steadily and the doubts faded. Trust the guide, trust the guide. I started off with a sulpher dry while Donny had Scott nymph a deeper run.  Gradually, his technique started to improve and he began to catch fish.  With each fish, his confidence kept rising.  Later we moved further up stream and Donny put Scott onto a 17" brown which he landed and a much bigger one that broke him off.  A flyfisherman was born. Thanks Donny Peter

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question, What was your best day fishing?   I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees.

I’m no gear bigot, a good day fishing is a good day fishing, regardless of what type of rod you are using. Later,      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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Boy this is a tough one to answer.  I have had so many wonderful days that have envoked so many great feelings. From a technical standpoint, it would have to be the day that my casting and ability to read the water all came together at once and I was able to put the fly 2 inches from the log along the bank of my favorite river on the first cast.  The wild bow came right out and nailed in textbook fashion. Big fish day would have to be the 20 pound rainbow taken up in British Columbia last summer. All in all though, I would have say that the days spent out with my 5 year old son fishing in our tiny 7 foot boat are the best.  He screams with joy when he gets a fish on his fly rod.  Good stuff to remember and I hope to spend many more years pursing trout with him.

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  

I’ll preface this by saying that it wasn’t trout and it wasn’t a flyrod. This was before I started throwing expensive clotheslines into the trees. Last summer, when I took my spinning rig to go after trout. Everybody said that my bass rig would never catch trout. Yeah, right. I like to do things just because they’re supposed to be impossible. Anyway, the weather was cloudy and dripping on and off. Not sunny enough to go out and shoot gophers, but I took my .22 with me just the same and almost dropped it in the river. I sat on the bank, popped open a beer, and tied on a 3" crankbait. One beer, a few casts, nothing. I got up, went to a bend in the river, and threw a few more casts. Hooked something. Couldn’t see what it was but it fought pretty good-about like a good-sized smallmouth or spot. I brought it in-it turned out to be my first ever rainbow. I didn’t measure it, but it looked to be about 16" standard length (snout to the base of the caudal fin). Released it. Finished my beer. Opened another one. Threw another few casts into that same slackwater at the bend. Nothing. I got up and moved upstream a little more. Started casting downstream, and caught another bow behind a huge rock. Brought it almost all the way in. Picked it up to try and unhook it and get a picture before I released it, but it broke off and ran off with one of my favorite crankbaits. Oh, well, I guess that’s the breaks of the game. Beautiful scenery and fishing with a cousin that I don’t see all that often… I think that qualifies as a pretty durn good day. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNruUi5diUzdLFqlpAQE4mwf/RrzaBPK/OPVM3Ky16dsN0ybat4VqtXjy 5RyoGBhB8+nJVxHVFgniCTqbmaKpbyGFXF80cZdhnqCV9kwP0eW7VNZvlINvuijd Myq2EHR7Phzw+9PkRFlT/E8k3OdmjAPWDZkyGMmvQcEShiKFZNCSYf6RWNFEB/m6 ud3M78qAFlY+AquSBvewbIsRzCLaxxgPf8V+INMVPFa6WtIICkbNhHt2aefq+TDm gLLyWyeDx4aV3zNoLXNnNzx6XlmFECpe3GAdQ0EXh2hJIgxkHV4xqL6XO7b9Uk7J zIM49Y2hsjkr+PAH/s0blCNncOPWB0pkoPWQPLfk4d5e48bxz+3Tcg== =Upmc —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz "I’m a liberal conservative. I believe in keeping things the way that  they should have been in the first place." -anon.

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Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray.

 No, that’s a story for another day.  (-: My best day?

[Wonderful story about introducing grandkids to fly-fishing snipped] It always amazes me the diversity this group has (probably the source of half our troubles).  Your grandkids are only about 10 years younger than I am.  I only hope to someday have what you have.  Savor it. Later,       – Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin current slides away, but eternity remains."     – H.D. Thoreau

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With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water.

 <Ken’s story snipped but not unappreciated I don’t want to answer your question Ken.  I love to fish and cherish every opportunity on the water.  You might ask Michael Jordan what his highest scoring game was – that question has an answer.  Let me ask you this, what was the day that you felt you were the best possible man/lover/friend/human being in your relationship with your aforementioned   girlfriend?  Would you want to live your life or conduct your relationship in such a way so that an answer to such a question could exist?  I wouldn’t, nor would I want to fish like that either.  Not trying to pretend to be some sort of mystic, or wierdo or take on the aura of wisdom of some old guy looking back on his life with tinted lenses (I believe I am the same age as you in fact).  Just how I feel about fishin’ that’s all. Later dude, Mu Young Lee         ann arbor, mi, usa

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Great story, Ken.  At least you didn’t show up for dinner with your clothes in disarray. My best day?  I’ve had a few, but the most memorable occurred last July in Labrador.   For the past two years I have been coaching my two grandsons. They are becoming good fly fishermen and I believe the bug may stick with the oldest, Jeff.  I took Jeff with me to Labrador. His eyes were bulging when the bush pilot told him to sit in the front seat of the Beaver on our flight to the river.  When we landed, his eyes got even bigger at the sight of such virgin, untouched country.  We quickly set up our rods, and we were off with a guide in a 40 hp Honda 4 stroke.  He brought us up- river to a spot I had fished the year before.  BIG brookies were rising about 30 feet from the boat, very close to shore.  I let Jeff have the first go.  The guide, Peter, directed Jeff where to cast, and Jeff did it perfectly.  His cast was just above the rising fish and exactly in the feeding lane.  I said "Now" to myself, and a big brookie came up and snatched Jeff’s Goddard Caddis.  He set the hook and away we go!  What a trip.  Jeff performed flawlessly listening to his grandpa but paying more attention to what Peter was saying. After about a five minute fight, Peter picked up the fish with his bare hand (no net),  took the hook out and released the 6 pound brookie.  I just sat there with tears in my eyes knowing that I had passed on to my grandson a very special moment. There were more fish that day and during the week, but Jeff still talks about that first fish and how he did it.  Jeff is only 15. This year, his brother Brian, 14, will go with me to Labrador. I hope we get Peter right off the plane! Dave "Pop Pop" LaCourse PS:  Oh yeah, almost forgot.  They have a sister, Danielle who is 9. I taught her to shoot this past fall and she too wants to fly fish.  It can’t get any better than this!

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Great story Ken. I wish I had a tale to tell about flyfishing with my wife. Years ago I built her a nice 8′ x 5 wt. graphite. Taught her to cast ( she wasn’t bad). But she didn’t take to it. Oh well my loss. As far as my best fishing day…there all best. Joel Axelrad

Response:

With all the negativity on this group as of late (I’ve done my share) I thought a positive thread might help with these winter blues so many of us seem to be experiencing.  So, I ask the question, What was your best day fishing?  It doesn’t have to be the time you caught the most or the biggest fish, just what was the most pleasant and enjoyable day you have spent on the water. I’ll start… My best day of fishing was probably late last fall.  My girlfriend and I were heading to the coast to visit her mother (no, that’s not the good part).  It was one of those beautiful fall days when the leaves are in the middle of changing colors, but it’s sunny and warm enough to not need a jacket.  We were driving along the highway through the coast mountains and she suggests that the water looks perfect for fishing and that we can be a little late (god I love her).  The water was relatively low and crystal clear, perfect dry-fly water. We pulled off the road and took the rods out of the trunk.  My trusty handmade 5 weight and "her" slow action 4 weight (it’s actully mine, but I’ve long since lost it).  We found a nice little stretch with a long slow riffle.  I gave her first choice on where to start, she chose the head of the rapids.  First cast, WHAM, a 12" cutt hits my stimulator.  I bring it to hand and smile because she’s glaring at me since she doesn’t even have her fly tied on yet. [For future reference, do not repeat these actions if you wish SO's to fish with you again] I think better about returning fishing and talk a bit waiting for her to finish.  She finally finished and we returned to fishing.  A couple more casts and I’ve got another cutt.  She’s starting to look a little down.  I tell her that they are feeding along the opposite bank just outside the faster moving water.  She suggests that maybe she’d rather fish at the tail end of the rapids instead, to which I happily agree.  Some time passes with no action when I get another cutt.  Now I know I’m in trouble, so I quickly release the fish, take apart my rod and head over to her.  She, thinking that I’m wanting to leave, starts to take apart her rod. I tell her, no, I’m done fishing, you just keep right ahead.  We talked about everything and nothing much at all, I made little suggestions on how she might improve her drift, but mostly we just enjoyed the time.  She forgot all about "trying" to catch a fish, and just fished.  Trying to make the fly drop softly onto the water, trying not to introduce drag, and that’s when it happened. A silver flash and then the sound of her reel’s drag.  It was beautiful (not the fish) and I wish to this day that I had had a camera.  After a bit of a fight, she brought in a NICE 15-16" cutt.  Had we not been heading to her mother’s we would most certainly have brought him home for supper.  Oh yeah, we arrived at her mother’s house dirty and sweaty, smelling like fish and three hours late!!! All in all, probably the best day fishing I’ve ever had.  :-)      - Ken

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Question:

I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: 17′, wide, stable (will be used for hunting and fishing), large load capacity, safe for kids and my dogs.

<SNIP I don’t know if you’ve made your decision yet but I have a number of demo Swift Dumoines and Yukons, royalex and royalite which would really fit your requirements for under $1000. — Steve Freund QCC Kayaks http://www.qualitycomposites.com

Response:

I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: 17′, wide, stable (will be used for hunting and fishing), large load capacity, safe for kids and my dogs. Will be used on river and lake, no heavy whitewater, but may see a few lumps and bumps, and also shallow water. Would like to be able to mount a small outboard/trolling for ocassional use, but not mandatory as I will be paddling 99% of the time. I looked at the Old Town Discovery 169 and Mad River Revelation. Any idea on prices I should see for used units? Please email with response. Thanks in advance Michael Rosenberger Phoenix College Media Services Arizona Upland Hunting and Outdoors – Productions

Response:

For a stable lake river canoe with big capacity I don’t see how you can beat http://www.otccanoe.com/camper.html  It isn’t 17′, but it has a big beauiful wide flat bottom that gives it LOTS of initial stability and IMHO would make it the absolute tops in a kids dogs camping scenario. I photograph birds out of mine with long lenses and that means getting my head and shoulders way off centerline and it lays in the water relaxed and stable as can be. Took it down about 55 miles of the Colorado from Moab to the Confluence this summer with Luigi Puzziferro. We were traveling gourmet style and started off with over 14 gallons of water (I never did like pumping water out of big rivers that flow near cities) and LOTS of heavy camera stuff, and that left plenty of freeboard and it cruised along nicely. Luigi made me so mad I could spit because he didn’t paddle half the time, but that wasn’t the boat’s fault. Paddles great solo, too. I just wouldn’t have a Discovery if there was any way I could get a Royalex canoe, especially if I was ever going to be carrying it around myself. Bought mine as a demonstrator from REI. Don’t remember how much, sorry, but it was cheap and in perfect shape. There are deals out there. Nace

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Greetings from Paint Island Canoe & Kayak in Bordentown, NJ. I would not leave Wenonah out of the picture here. They make a Fisherman model that is beamier than most canoes but it is a 14′ boat. You can purchase motor mount kits that will fit  most boats as long as there is enough gunnel to grab. We sell two different types ranging in price from 49.95 to 56.00. The 56.00 is universal and ready to mount. The 49.95 unit must be cut to fit your boat. Good luck in your boat selection. Hope weather is great out there. Happy Paddling www.riversport.com/paintisland/ Ron

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Michael: I’ve used the 17′ old town discovery sport square stern to fly fish out of. Stability is very good.  The two sets of oar locks are nice, they allow you to  row from the middle if you have two friends fishing at once or row from the bow if you have only one person fishing….it is tough, quiet, warm,,,as opposed to aluminum but it is very heavy…all in all it is a very good boat for non serious ww…ka – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: 17′, wide, stable (will be used for hunting and fishing), large load capacity, safe for kids and my dogs. Will be used on river and lake, no heavy whitewater, but may see a few lumps and bumps, and also shallow water. Would like to be able to mount a small outboard/trolling for ocassional use, but not mandatory as I will be paddling 99% of the time. I looked at the Old Town Discovery 169 and Mad River Revelation. Any idea on prices I should see for used units? Please email with response. Thanks in advance Michael Rosenberger Phoenix College Media Services Arizona Upland Hunting and Outdoors – Productions

Response:

Michael Rosenberger wrote I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: OldTown Discovery 17.4…our first boat….shortest trip 18 days/longest

trip 34 days. Our initial skill level : ZERO. Have paddled it on big Rivers like the Peace in Alberta at record flood, big lakes like Reindeer Lake in northern Saskatchewan, and remote prarie rivers like the North Dakota’s Little Missouri….there are prettier boat, there are certainly more expensive boats, and I doubt ANYONE will swipe this boat… look up OldTown Canoe homepage…weight is 82#, material is …plastic with interior foam cells LOL… carries 700 lbs easily with 3 inches of freeboard, and is still very stable. Cost new: $750 new… if you ever find a USED one…its because its previous owner died and surviving spouse is moving to the Sahara, or one a lottery and is buying a custom built (plastic boat) with a fancy name. It is used by outfitters in NWT as a rental, just like the old Grummans…it is maintenance free,and a safe and forgiving craft. This is my humble opinion…but you DID ask…

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Yep, the Old Town Discovery series of boats is a good way to go for sure. If you can find someone who sell a lot of them, ask if they have any "blems" at reduced cost.  I worked for a couple of years at Rutabaga in Madison, WI (they ship anywhere, call 1-800- I PADDLE). Or call Od Town and ask for anyone in your area that sells their blems. The "blems" typically are just spots with a bit of discoloration which does not affect the integrity of the boat what so ever. Check out Rutabagas website also.  I’ve got it listed below. To reply by email, remove "mapson"from my edress.

Response:

I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe…

<SNIP THANKS to all who replied either in group or via email. I must say, this was a breathe of fresh air compared to some of my other experiences in other groups. Normally you ask for an opinion, you get one and then the rest of the thread is everyone else telling the first poster why he is wrong. It says allot about the "paddlin’ people". I must say I am quite excited to be getting this canoe. I did some paddlin’ in camps when I was younger and to this day cannot remember having more fun. Cannot wait to take the family, or hell…get out by myself for a day run. I will chime in again and let you know what canoe ends up on my truck top. Thanks again. Michael Rosenberger Phoenix College Media Services Arizona Upland Hunting and Outdoors – Productions

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I just bought a Revelation for $1200.  It retailed for about $1400. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: 17′, wide, stable (will be used for hunting and fishing), large load capacity, safe for kids and my dogs. Will be used on river and lake, no heavy whitewater, but may see a few lumps and bumps, and also shallow water. Would like to be able to mount a small outboard/trolling for ocassional use, but not mandatory as I will be paddling 99% of the time. I looked at the Old Town Discovery 169 and Mad River Revelation. Any idea on prices I should see for used units? Please email with response. Thanks in advance Michael Rosenberger Phoenix College Media Services Arizona Upland Hunting and Outdoors – Productions

Response:

I am looking to purchase a used canoe. This is my first canoe and the following are some wants/uses: 17′, wide, stable (will be used for hunting and fishing), large load capacity, safe for kids and my dogs. Will be used on river and lake, no heavy whitewater, but may see a few lumps and bumps, and also shallow water. Would like to be able to mount a small outboard/trolling for ocassional use, but not mandatory as I will be paddling 99% of the time. I looked at the Old Town Discovery 169 and Mad River Revelation. Any idea on prices I should see for used units?

If you are looking at a Discovery, consider the Appalachian. It is a 16′ boat, butfor river running and wilderness tripping royalex is a superior hull materal. These boats are reasonably cheap, under $1000. The Appalachian is very similar to the Mad River Explorer (also a great boat), but the Old Town is significantly cheaper. -Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please email with response. Thanks in advance Michael Rosenberger Phoenix College Media Services Arizona Upland Hunting and Outdoors – Productions

Response:

Question:

I’ll be in Portland (weather permitting) from the 15-19 of Jan (This weekend) and I’m looking for info on a spot to try for a days fishing. Preferably if someone is interested in taking me along on a trip, I’ll provide transportation, cover all the costs and in return offer my services up here in Victoria B.C. I’ll fly fish for basically anything that swims and if steelheading doesn’t look good, then I’m up for anything.

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I’ll be in Portland (weather permitting) from the 15-19 of Jan (This weekend) and I’m looking for info on a spot to try for a days fishing. Preferably if someone is interested in taking me along on a trip, I’ll provide transportation, cover all the costs and in return offer my services up here in Victoria B.C. I’ll fly fish for basically anything that swims and if steelheading doesn’t look good, then I’m up for anything.

As of today, Tues 1/13, everything is blown out of shape. Forecast doesn’t look good…but who knows?

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Question:

hey   kevin     my name is david and im 14 years old.  Ive never been to st petersburg but ive been to marco island/naples to fish for snook and its really  fun. I went out by a dock and threw my fly in the perfect place and a 10 lbs. snook hit it.   It took me 15-20 mins to get him to the boat and that was one of my favorite fishing trips ever. I hope have fun and catch a big one when you go on your trip. david screen name: snookage

Response:

I like it when they blast out of the water after a take. I caught one down in the glades that I thought was a posiden when it came out of the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey   kevin     my name is david and im 14 years old.  Ive never been to st petersburg but ive been to marco island/naples to fish for snook and its really  fun. I went out by a dock and threw my fly in the perfect place and a 10 lbs. snook hit it.   It took me 15-20 mins to get him to the boat and that was one of my favorite fishing trips ever. I hope have fun and catch a big one when you go on your trip. david screen name: snookage

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Question:

After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout.

An English side-by-side with a splinter fore end and a straight stock, only, and *only* over a pointing dog.   Waxing my Barbour coat and waiting for a call from my broker, David

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: Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about : people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Time to re-hash the stories about bat-casting….

i always practice C&R on them…and ouzels…not much meat on a bat, but the wings (I’ve heard) make excellent jerky. TimW

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout. It would seem to me that you might want to go with variable chokes depending on if trout were feeding on the surface or not. The AR folks could always practice blast and release. Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Regards, Frank. Self appointed treasurer of the Mountain Home Benevolent Trout Fishers Assosciation. Motto:  Your dues are due. P.S.  I’m going nuts.  I haven’t been able to fish for awhile, and if I don’t soak my lower half in some cold water soon, I’m done for.

Hi Frank I’ve got some yellow Brazilian Velour that should make a great corn fly. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog)

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After reading all the posts about upland bird hunting and grouse stocking in the ff’er group, it got me to thinking (Hmmm… thought I smelled wood burning!) about the proper shotgun for trout. It would seem to me that you might want to go with variable chokes depending on if trout were feeding on the surface or not. The AR folks could always practice blast and release. Say! what about going after grouse with a 6 weight rod?  I have heard about people catching pigeons with a threaded piece of dried corn. Regards, Frank. Self appointed treasurer of the Mountain Home Benevolent Trout Fishers Assosciation. Motto:  Your dues are due. P.S.  I’m going nuts.  I haven’t been able to fish for awhile, and if I don’t soak my lower half in some cold water soon, I’m done for.

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Question:

 Does anyone out there have any idea of what the results of our recent  floods in Oregon will be on game fish?  How about our Salmon and  Steelhead populations, or even native trout?    Are there other resources on the internet more specifically for  northwest fly fishing?

I’ve found Creekside Flyfishing in Salem to have one of the best web sites on Oregon flyfishing resources.  You’ll find it at         http://www.halcyon.com/flyshop

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Does anyone out there have any idea of what the results of our recent floods in Oregon will be on game fish?  How about our Salmon and Steelhead populations, or even native trout?   Are there other resources on the internet more specifically for northwest fly fishing? Loren

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Does anyone out there have any idea of what the results of our recent floods in Oregon will be on game fish?  How about our Salmon and Steelhead populations, or even native trout?  

There are several threats to consider, sedimentation being top of my list.  Lots of reds were probably flushed away too– I’ve seen small fisheries destroyed by flooding due to logging, and they never recover.   There’s also the damage to the hatcheries, but that should only affect the age class that was to be released this year (although I’ve heard that the little game Congress played with the budget forced early release, and hence death, of millions of salmon).  I suppose the damge won’t be evident until spring… — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University        Dept. of History                 "Nothing interesting occurred today…"         -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

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Question:

Hi….     I would like some advice on HOW to fish for Steelhead on a fly!! I have been swinging green and red butted skunks in the South Santiam River for two years now, without a take on the fly. I  fish the tailouts and ripples for hours. I have spent my thirty hours on the water, I WANT MY FISH! (Smile)      What do I need to buy or learn about these fish that would make me one of the %10 of the people who catch %90 of the Steelhead. At the present time: I am using light 7 weight, 8 1/2 foot long with floating line and a 9 foot leader. I use a couple of split shot about a foot from the fly to get it to sink. I don’t weight my Steelhead flys… I was told not to by a local flyshop operator, "DEFINITELY DO NOT PUT LEAD ON YOUR FLYS."        Do I need to buy some kinda of sinking line, something like a Deep Water Express to go deeper for Steelhead. I fish for them below the serface during the summer months. *This is what I have read: fish for Steelhead right below the surface during the summer months because the fishes matabolism speeds up due to the warmth of the water and the need to spawn. Also, do Steelhead stay near the bottom of the river most all of the time they are traveling up the river? I see an occasional steelie jump out of the water, but as spectacular as this events is, it is but brief pause to my clinching teeth and despondantly cursing these fish out of my frustration. Heck, I used every fowl word in the English language, so I took up speaking Spanish so that I could curse these fish in another language. (Smile)     In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a day.*      Thanks…          Joey Hurt  

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    In the spirit of flyfishing, if you live in Oregon and understand   how to fish for steelhead, then please respond to this message. Even if   you don’t…any advice would be nice. If you are fishing for these fish   near or around the Eugene, Oregon or Salem, Oregon area, and wouldn’t   mind giving a beginner some advice on the river, then let me know and I   will bring the beer and lunch. *Sorry, I am a poor college student and   can’t afford a guide, even though I would love to charter a guide for a   day.*       Thanks…           Joey Hurt  

Joey,     No, you don’t need a sinking line.  Actually, you don’t even need a subsurface fly, particularly on fresh fish.  I am a little curious about the S. Santiam as your river of choice.  Any particular reason you picked it over the N. Santiam, the Umpqua the Deschutes or others?  Fishing for steelhead is something of an act of faith these days.  There were somewhat less than 500 wild fish over Sherars Falls on the Deschutes last year.  In the mid 80s, we had just under 10,000. Sounds like you are going about it in the right way, though it is difficult to tell if your are maximizing your chances by picking prime time (of day and year) for the water you are fishing.  You might consider hooking up with a club, the Santiam Flycasters in Salem.  You can access them through Keith Burkhart at the Valley Flyfisher on Alice St. in Salem.                                             Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Joey, Check out The Anadramous Page on the web.  If you can’t find it, let me know and I’ll send you the URL. Mike

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all i really know about steelhead is that you dont carch them they catch you.  im a student at osu and live in corvallis year round.  i am new to the game but would be more than happy to double team those bastard fish.   by the way have you tried the fork below jefferson wheere the north and south meet. -craig

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