Question:

Boring?  Check out the lampoon’s sequel, Bored of the Rings, fun at first, but a bit overworked. That’s a book from the 60’s or 70’s, not a movie. But, no, I didn’t find the book boring.  Like any movie based on a great book, it never meats your expectations, but this one was so much better than Dune that I couldn’t muster a complaint, and I will see the next two. Chas Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and expertise that went into it ?    

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Response:

Boring?  Check out the lampoon’s sequel, Bored of the Rings, fun at first, but a bit overworked. That’s a book from the 60’s or 70’s, not a movie. But, no, I didn’t find the book boring.  Like any movie based on a great book, it never meats your expectations, but this one was so much better than Dune that I couldn’t muster a complaint, and I will see the next two.

Your use of Dune as an example of how a movie can disappoint the book reader is a good one. But there are two versions of Dune out there. The first one is about 2.5 hours with rumors of enough material on the cutting room floor to a) fill in the gaps for those who had not read the book and b) double its length. Then there’s the later version which IS about 5 hours in length and is much truer to the character types & plot development of the book. I somewhat enjoyed the first, but had to keep whispering to my wife about who that sudden new character was, why the seemingly arbitrary shifts in plot elelments, etc. The  second is far better both as cimematography and as book adaptation – but it’s not up there with Casablanca, Schindler’s List or The Wizard of Oz. Likewise the current 1/3 of LOTR; it’s fairly good entertainment but on the long haul only so-so. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — Second-ratedness, unfailing law of: Never be the first to try anything.    anon.

Response:

It seemed to be more of a preteen movie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boring?  Check out the lampoon’s sequel, Bored of the Rings, fun at first, but a bit overworked. That’s a book from the 60’s or 70’s, not a movie. But, no, I didn’t find the book boring.  Like any movie based on a great book, it never meats your expectations, but this one was so much better than Dune that I couldn’t muster a complaint, and I will see the next two. Your use of Dune as an example of how a movie can disappoint the book reader is a good one. But there are two versions of Dune out there. The first one is about 2.5 hours with rumors of enough material on the cutting room floor to a) fill in the gaps for those who had not read the book and b) double its length. Then there’s the later version which IS about 5 hours in length and is much truer to the character types & plot development of the book. I somewhat enjoyed the first, but had to keep whispering to my wife about who that sudden new character was, why the seemingly arbitrary shifts in plot elelments, etc. The  second is far better both as cimematography and as book adaptation – but it’s not up there with Casablanca, Schindler’s List or The Wizard of Oz. Likewise the current 1/3 of LOTR; it’s fairly good entertainment but on the long haul only so-so. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent — Second-ratedness, unfailing law of: Never be the first to try anything.    anon.

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Yup. Instead of parts of the book, it WAS one cliffhanger after another. After four or five they began to run out of dramatic soundtrack…..but I will give them credit for the old college try….better than seeing it butchered I guess.  They definitely put some thought into it. I’m out on the sequels…… john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings  movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and  expertise that went into it ? Are you old enough to remember that great satire, Bored of the Rings? The books were so boring I never got past page 3 of the first one. I’ve heard that the movie is just one cliff hanger followed by another. Take heart, Greg. You won’t have to waste your money on the next two movies, which are already in the can. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Boring?  Check out the lampoon’s sequel, Bored of the Rings, fun at first, but a bit overworked. That’s a book from the 60’s or 70’s, not a movie. But, no, I didn’t find the book boring.  Like any movie based on a great book, it never meats your expectations, but this one was so much better than Dune that I couldn’t muster a complaint, and I will see the next two. Chas

I loved the Lord of the Rings movie. I have read the books many times and the movie did a pretty good job. The problem is that with such an epic book any movie nearly always ends up as a  series of vignettes that communicates the plot in the shortest way possible. This is at the expense of the ambience and magnificence of the book. Dune, the TV Series on SciFi, is much better than the Dune movie. Definitely captures the middle-easterness of the book and the effects are excellent. Gary

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Don’t get me started about the visual effects . . . granted I still have the taste of sour grapes still in my mouth [I worked on Pearl Harbor, and it beat us out for the Visual Effects Oscar]. My best description of the movie . . . fight, fight, run, close-up of Frodo crying, fight , run, close-up of Frodo crying, fight, fight, fight, close-up of Frodo crying, run, fight, fight [you get the idea]. The movie moves at a snails pace in my opinion.  After the last scene in the movie (where they are looking towards their ultimate goal), I turn to my wife and said . . . "It’s going to take them 2 more movies to get over there?". But, on a side note . . . If I was young and single . . . I wouldn’t think twice about heading down th N.Z. and working on the other 2 movies . . . that way I could fish on my one day off.  snicker snicker -Marshall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yup. Instead of parts of the book, it WAS one cliffhanger after another. After four or five they began to run out of dramatic soundtrack….  Agreed.   I was trying to figure out how much of what  I was seeing was actual NZ vs computer generation  vs good old fashioned special effects.  Some of it  was quite obvious but much of it was quite difficult.

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Don’t get me started about the visual effects . . . granted I still have the taste of sour grapes still in my mouth [I worked on Pearl Harbor, and it beat us out for the Visual Effects Oscar].

I obviously don’t pay enough attention to the Oscars, but having seen both movies Pearl Harbor beat Rings hands down in the visual effects category IMHO.  Every time there was a group of people walking in front of matted scenery I kept thinking that they were purposely trying to make it look like a bad B-movie from the 50’s.      - Ken

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Yes, they have been "shot".  But they are in what is called "Post Production" now – Meaning the visual effects are being created as we speak.  I know this because several of my co-workers have taken the option to go down and work on the second and third movies.  The visual effects will not be completed for the second movie until at least November. This is a very labor and computing intensive business. I just finished working on Star Wars – Eposide II – Saturday, [they actually called me out of a flyfishing seminar with Mel Krieger at the Golden Gate park casting pools, to tweak a final shot ]. And this Star Wars movie has been "shot" for a few months now.  The next project I start in May, will not be completed until next June. Cheers, Marshall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  The other two have already been made (tho I  assume that they will be tocuhed up/recut a  bit in response to critiques of the first one). But, on a side note . . . If I was young and single . . . I wouldn’t think twice about heading down th N.Z. and working on the other 2 movies . . . that way I could fish on my one day off.  snicker snicker

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I somewhat enjoyed the first, but had to keep whispering to my wife about who that sudden new character was, why the seemingly arbitrary shifts in plot elelments, etc. The  second is far better both as cimematography and as book adaptation – but it’s not up there with Casablanca, Schindler’s List or The Wizard of Oz.

I didn’t like the first at all but your assessment of the second is on the money, IMO. Especially considering that it was a made for TV movie, I thought it was well made. After my disappointment with the first movie, I almost didn’t watch the second. Willi

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 Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings  movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and  expertise that went into it ?

My wife found it rather boring.  She felt it did deserve an Oscar nomination  however because obviously it was an example of grand moviemaking.  I found it entertaining.  But I’m a geek. Mu

Response:

Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and expertise that went into it ?    

I read the books passionately when a child, but haven’t for a long time. Went to the movie in dread, and utterly loved it. i thought it was terrific. LC — Lazarus Cooke

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OTOH, it was rather non-pc to exclude gay Tom Bombadil, don’t you think ?

I thought he was married?  But then …. Lc — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

 Also, their problem domain scales nicely, so their test data can be much smaller inputs resulting in much smaller scenes, and if those go well the giga-pixel scenes probably will too, just with lot’s more computer time…

I’m copying this out, and learning it off by heart, so as to know what to say when people ask me what I thought of the movie. LC — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

It may be that those who’ve written the engines have been careful about these issues, but even then my guess is that their "validation" consists of looking at the scene and deciding whether it looks good or not. (I suppose one might consider that to be the ultimate validation, anyways).

I also thought that the math libraries were a bit smarter in how they handled floating point calculations as well, such that a lot of the "fun" was buried to the point of not being considered by "modern" programmers…

Response:

 I assumed that there would be a lot of iterative  floating point calculations and that there would  be some concern about values wandering out  of precision after a large number of iterations,  but that’s based on guessing at what actually  goes on with this stuff.

It’s basically a matter of projecting virtual light rays from pixels in the virtual film plane out through the virtual focal point and into the 3D model, determining what surface in the model the ray intersects, and then using a lighting model and the reflectance properties of the surfaces in the model to determine what the color and intensity of the pixel should be. There are lots of special hacks to make things realistic. For example, how do you render fog? It wouldn’t be feasible to model every little water droplet. It’s essentially a simulation of the physics of actual photography, with a few added hacks. This is a very parallel computation — every pixel value can, in principle, be computed independently. It’s pretty easy to put lots of processors to work on the problem with good efficiency.

Response:

This is a very parallel computation — every pixel value can, in principle, be computed independently. It’s pretty easy to put lots of processors to work on the problem with good efficiency.

which is why a significant portion of Toy Story could be done using a bank of Quadras. Mu

Response:

I loved the Lord of the Rings movie. I have read the books many times and the movie did a pretty good job. The problem is that with such an epic book any movie nearly always ends up as a  series of vignettes that communicates the plot in the shortest way possible. This is at the expense of the ambience and magnificence of the book.

Ditto on loving it! I resisted watching the movie for months because the books were so important to me as a kid. I lived in the woods of Maine, and one Christmas break, I read them a lot of times. A lot. Probably some sort of record. You gotta keep in mind, I was an insecure, alienated little kid, was snowed in miles away from neighbors, and I fell in love with the fantasy world of Middle Earth. Pretty much memorized the books. So when the movie came out, I refused to go because I didn’t want to superimpose the visual images over my rich imaginary images. But yesterday, feeling particularly middle-agish and lost in another land, I went for a walk and happened across a movie theater just as LoTR was starting. Bought the ticket and went in. The movie didn’t have to ‘fill in the blanks’ for me, or have a particularly integritous plot: I still have the books memorized, and I know the characters like I know my own relatives. Instead, the images were like a photo album from my childhood, with characters I’ve been missing, and places I wish I could see IRL. That old adventurous spirit. Anyway, I sat there for the whole freaking movie with tears creeping down, one at a time. I felt like a nostalgic old idiot until I noticed the guy next to me doing the same. I loved the movie. I won’t see it again, because I want to keep my old mental images intact, but it sure was nice to see those old friends again. Oh yeah, I also cried because I’ll NEVER get to lay Liv Tyler. riverman

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I found a couple of disturbing gaps, like the pc move of changing Glorfindel

<SNIP OTOH, it was rather non-pc to exclude gay Tom Bombadil, don’t you think ? — Gary M

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Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and expertise that went into it ?

No.  I loved every minute of it.  I’ve read the trilogy dozens of times, and found the movie to be strikingly true to the original text.  It was spellbinding to this old hippie.  

Response:

says… Does anyone else think that the new Lord of the Rings movie is boring, in spite of the outstanding care and expertise that went into it ? No.  I loved every minute of it.  I’ve read the trilogy dozens of times, and found the movie to be strikingly true to the original text.  It was spellbinding to this old hippie.  

I found a couple of disturbing gaps, like the pc move of changing Glorfindel (I believe…as I DON’T have the books memorized ) into Arwen, making Arwen more of a warrior than depicted in the books. The battle with Gandalf and Saruman was botched as well. It’s more accurate, I believe, to say that the movie is in the same spirit as the book. Rob

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 I remember seeing a very short sequence from the  last Star Wars movie which apparently took several  months’ computer time to generate.  Validating the  software for something like this must take a lot of  time.

I may be a few years out of date, and maybe someone can correct me, but I believe one program is used for the overwhelming majority of 3D computer graphics in films: Pixar’s RenderMan. Rendering images (that’s what it’s called) with a computer is routine, but expensive. The hard part is building the models. The coolest special effect I’ve seen in a long time was in a recent Blockbuster commercial. Two animals in a pet store across the street from the Blockbuster were trying to get attention. The cool thing is that the filmmakers rendered fur convincingly. Fur is hard. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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My wife found it rather boring.  She felt it did deserve an Oscar nomination  however because obviously it was an example of grand moviemaking.  I found it entertaining.  But I’m a geek. Mu

    you are also a wonderful creator of flies.  mine arrived this afternoon. i will probably keep a couple just to admire.     thanks, mu. yfitons wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Good question. The parts with actual scenery are pretty obvious if you have been or lived here, if not I guess it would be hard to tell. Having said that my fianc

Question:

Danke. Any in striking distance of Portland (left coast)?

Response:

Danke. Any in striking distance of Portland (left coast)?

There will be for sure if you decide to host one. Regards, Jeff

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Great responses, all. Wunnerfully creative minds at work (??) here. Now, anyone care to answer the original question itself? Thanks!

Response:

Great responses, all. Wunnerfully creative minds at work (??) here. Now, anyone care to answer the original question itself? Thanks!

I did sort of.   Conclave – 1. a private meeting.  2a. the assembly of cardinals for the election of a pope.   2b. the meeting place for the conclave. (Hint:  It ain’t meaning #2) Now the new definition, a ROFFian meeting of assorted reprobates, alocholics, and womanizers in a location near water known to hold trout. HTH Peter

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"Clave" is an abbreviation of "Conclave", which is usually taken to mean the gathering of cardinals who assemble to elect a new pope. It also means any closed gathering. As far as ROFF is concerned, a clave is a get together where hopefully fun is had by all, and some fishing is done. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

______  RW?  I want to talk to you at: — http://www.gink.com/chat If you are up.  I’m going there now. George

Response:

Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them.  Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish?  They look like they would slip out.

Vern; This topic comes up every few weeks here.  If you do a Deja News search you can find quite a bit of discussion of it over the past year or so.  It seems that Ernie and I are the biggest fans of leader links.  I’ve used them for over fifteen years, as have a number of my friends.  I know of no case in which they have failed, except when they are so old that repeated dragging over rocks etc., has abraded them badly.  Of course, any knot used to attach a leader to the fly line would have fared just as badly. Like anything else, a leader link has a finite useable life.  But bearing that in mind they are very reliable, cheap, and easy to use, and should be more than adequate for anything less demanding than large salt water species.  I’ve personally caught quite a few steelhead and salmon while rigged with leader links and never had a problem. Someone else recently suggested knotting the ends of the leader and line together before reinserting them into the leader link.  This is unnecessary for most applications but can’t hurt if you can actually tie a knot small enough.

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Vern,    They are surprisingly strong.  The only thing to watch out for is to tie a figure 8 knot or double overhand when attaching leader butt’s with diameters of .017 or less to make a larger knot.  You should check the line where it enters the Leader Link vocationally to see that it hasn’t cracked. They seem to last forever, I have worn out lines and moved the Leader Link to a new line.  Changing leaders is so easy that I replace the whole leader rather than tie on a new tippet while I am fishing.  I save the leaders and rebuild them when I am not fishing. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them. Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish? They look like they would slip out. Vern Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

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Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Vern,   They are surprisingly strong.  The only thing to watch out for is to tie a figure 8 knot or double overhand when attaching leader butt’s with diameters of .017 or less to make a larger knot.  You should check the line where it enters the Leader Link vocationally to see that it hasn’t cracked. They seem to last forever, I have worn out lines and moved the Leader Link to a new line.  Changing leaders is so easy that I replace the whole leader rather than tie on a new tippet while I am fishing.  I save the leaders and rebuild them when I am not fishing. Ernie Harrison Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them. Do they stay in the flyline when you hook a big fish? They look like they would slip out. Vern Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

Response:

John,    A Leader Link looks like a large grain of rice with a hole drilled through the center lengthwise and with the sides cut out in the middle. Your line slides into the hole in one end and out the hole in the side,  You tie an overhand knot in it, trim off the excess and pull it back through the hole in the side.  Then you do the same with your leader in the hole in the other end. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john

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ahhhh….those rascals……thanks….john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John,   A Leader Link looks like a large grain of rice with a hole drilled through the center lengthwise and with the sides cut out in the middle. Your line slides into the hole in one end and out the hole in the side, You tie an overhand knot in it, trim off the excess and pull it back through the hole in the side.  Then you do the same with your leader in the hole in the other end. Ernie Are you guys differentiating between the kind that slip over and the kind that poke through (with barbs) the end of your flyline?……john

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I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

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going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt

Don, I wonder how many posts you are going to get like this one. You know, where your question is addressed but no advice given? Myself, I use the perfection not on both the butt section and the leader.  I like the way it forms the loop to loop as far as turn over goes.  Less likelihood of the ‘hinging effect.’ I do recall this question coming up a long time ago and I saved the question and all of the answers….course I lost a whole big file of stuff while learning some of the various functions of my computer.  And I don’t remember what the answer was….I think it had something to do with casting…in order to avoid the knots. I must have retained something on a subconscious level because it moved the knots down into the tippet section. All I know is that it’s a real pickle trying to flyfish with a short term

Response:

Hi Don, I like to first needle nail knot a new tapered knotless monofilament leader directly to the end of my flyline. I am actually ’snelling’ on the leader. Then after I have used up all the taper by adding tippet material, I cut the leader at about 12 to 18 inches from the flyline and then attach another tapered leader. This gives me the same diameter and the same constancy of monofilament. You can shorten the new leader by cutting 12 to 18 inches from the butt before tying it on. This is not ‘thee way to do it’, but just another way to do it. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

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Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been experimenting with different connections between my fly line and leader.  My local flyshop has a habit of tying a perfection loop into a line and then using a loop-to-loop connection but if I’m going to get a wind knot that’s where it will happen 90% of the time.  I’ve taken recently to tying a short section (18") of butt directly to the end of the line using a nail knot, then tying in a tapered leader, then tying in a tippet.  I end up clipping off a 1/2" of line anytime I have to change out that butt section which is more often than I’d like. Any other suggestions? TIA, Don — Don Anderson

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I use a nail knot to tie a butt to the leader and then I put a surgeons loop at the end of that.I use a loop to loop connection to attach the leader.I don’t like to use a loop connection to my tippet because I believe it will affect the ability of the leader to lay out straight.Art Lee recommends never using a loop anywhhere on your leader but using a uni-knot to connect which is easier to tie than a nail knot and serves the same function.I have switched to this knot and I haven’t had any problems.

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Don,    Try using the Leader Link from Eagle Claw. Eagle Claw Country Store Phone 1-800-628-0108 4245 East 46th Avenue Denver Colorado 80216 Leader Link For tapered lines (LL1) For level lines     (LL2) There are 3 links per package and cost $2.83 per pack.

Hear, Hear!  I’ve been using Leader Links for 20 years now, and wouldn’t waste my time trying anything else.  They work great, but I hardly know anybody else that uses them.  They don’t look as though they would be all that strong, but they are a hell of a lot stronger than the tippet of your leader (unless maybe you are fishing for blue marlin or something), which is all that you need. Kevin

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Hear, Hear!  I’ve been using Leader Links for 20 years now, and wouldn’t waste my time trying anything else.  They work great, but I hardly know anybody else that uses them.  They don’t look as though they would be all that strong, but they are a hell of a lot stronger than the tippet of your leader (unless maybe you are fishing for blue marlin or something), which is all that you need.

When I recommended leader links to a friend of mine in Idaho he turned up his nose at them. Said he was a "purist". I pointed out that he was using a graphite rod, a nylon leader, and a synthetic flyline. It turned out that the guy didn’t even know how to tie a nail knot or a needle knot. He had it done at the tackle shop. Sheesh! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Ernie, I’ve seen these but have never had the guts to use them.

Question:

Yesterday I got news from a friend that Sydney Harbour was really firing, with big schools of bonito and yellowtail kingfish feeding on top nearly all morning – he and his wife got several good bonnies on fly and lost a kingie, fly line and all before leaving, sick of catching ‘em. I got my gear out before bed, putting a Teeny ‘head on my 11 wt and an intermediate on the 8. The sky was clearing after intermittent drizzle since Christmas Eve. I woke up at 5am this morning to the sound of pouring rain. It’s been going all day (it’s nearly 1 pm now). The wind is up around 15kts, a southerly, which ruins my chances in my 4.2m runabout. I’ve downloaded all the Win’98 Y2K patches I can, I’ve upgraded my antivirus data files, I’ve eaten most of the leftovers in the fridge, but there are a I’M PISSED OFF I WANT TO GO FISHING JK

Response:

I know how you feel John, s’been hissing down here for 3 days or so … still we need it.  Having decided to take the plunge (finally!) into the salt  I’ve been tying a box full of saltwater flies in anticiaption and what happens? … still we need it. good luck when the weather breaks. Steve

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I wish we had some of that rain! Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

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I’ve got a lot of empty bottles here I could fill for you.

John : If you want, you could send a bunch of bottles of rain to Dallas. Nearby Lake Lewisville is still 13.3 feet low and weather liers offer no help. The weather here was 73 degrees this afternoon with blue skies and the wind was less than 20 m.p.h.  If this keeps up all the catfish will die of sunburn. There Waldo and Jeff are fishing in beautiful gray days and knocking ice out of their rod guides and we are stuck in this damn bluebird kind of days and still wearing shorts and sandals. I am jealous. It is still too hot to enjoy a Young’s Oatmeal Stout. Big Dale Big Dale

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….It is still too hot to enjoy a Young’s Oatmeal Stout.

Unimaginable Dale.  Never been a fan of hot weather myself but it’s never too hot to drink a good beer, especially if it accompanies a nice mess of fried bluegills. And as the latter are something of a specialty of yours I should think you’d be in pretty good shape.  Bottoms up!

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Where are you Forrest? I’ve got a lot of empty bottles here I could fill for you. Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish we had some of that rain! Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

Response:

Big Dale, Don’t worry, that’s the one thing with the weather – I guarantee it will change (for better or for worse is the only question, and not even the meteorologists know that!). You wouldn’t believe it here today, not a cloud in the sky, no wind, 25deg Some how I have to tell my better half that I’m going to get some of those kingies at 5am tomorrow morning (New Years Eve), it might be my last chance. Cheers JK

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Question:

Woolly Buggers. Weighted, fished slow and deep… /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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I like to use a bead head green cadis larvae in PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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There are many different patterns that are used for Browns in the Northeast.  One that I really like is the Glo-bug.  There are many Creeks that have spawnig fish such as Steelhead during the winter months.  A Glo-bug is always a good bet for winter fishing. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

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Question:

Watching ESPN2 recently I chanced across a young lady (seemingly well accomplished in the fly-fishing arts) guiding the show host on a snowy winter stream near Cooke City Montana.  She was fishing dry flys downstream. According to her "when the water is clear and the fish spook easily this prevents ""lining the fish"".

Hi Hart, I didn’t read any of the other post yet, but I am sure there are some good answers. I know that on smooth water that is moving slowly the fishing can be tough on the surface. I usually add on 3 feet of 6x or 7x tippet with a #16 or 18 dry, like a Spinner, Parachute, Cripple or Sparkle Dun. I get 30 to 50 feet above the fish and cast my fly downstream  ~3 feet above it’s rise form. Stop the rod high and shake down some slack so it won’t drag. We learned this from guide Bob Quigley in the 70s on California’s Hat Creek. This way the first thing the fish sees is the fly! If you rent or buy Doug Swisher 3M video, ‘Advanced Strategies for Selective Trout’, you will see Doug demonstrate presenting a fly from any point 360 degrees to the fish. I think this is a standard technique on any western spring creek? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Watching ESPN2 recently I chanced across a young lady (seemingly well accomplished in the fly-fishing arts) guiding the show host on a snowy winter stream near Cooke City Montana.  She was fishing dry flys downstream. According to her "when the water is clear and the fish spook easily this prevents ""lining the fish"". Being a new student of the art, everything I read or listen to tells me dry flys Upstream, wet flys up or down stream and nymphing requires years of experience.  Now I wonder how far a trout is seeing upstream.  I have recently experienced "lining the fish" with a pod of three browns while fishing a streamer upstream.  The floating leader alone spooked the fish. Any thoughts on downstream dry fly fishing and range of sight for trout? As a side note: I have caught a couple of lesser fish when allowing the dry fly to float 20 to 30 feet behind me as I moved up stream in the hole.  I don’t consider this a method I wish to regularly adopt but peaks my curiosity about fish sight range. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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The book "Trout and the Fly" by John Goddard offers some interesting insight into a trout’s sight window.   You will line a trout on a downstream drift if the trout does not take the fly and you allow the fly to continue its drift well past the fish. Clint

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Interesting, I started fly fishing in 1948 and find that fishing a dry fly upstream to be the most successful method.  Only in special circumstances where the water is smooth and clear and the trout are "educated" do I use the downstream method. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I started fly fishing in 1952, and the only hard and fast rule I have discovered is that in order to be succesful, you have to adapt your method to suit the current conditions.  As far as dry flies go, I find direct upstream fishing to usually be the least successful method because you will "line" the fish, and drag is difficult to control.   Usually a quartering upstream or side approach is best. If the surface of the water is not smooth, such as a riffle, the downstream method can be quite effective. As far as what other people think of your method, if it is legal, and you are not crowding or otherwise disturbing them, don’t worry about what they think. Tight Lines!!! George

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Ernie, Just goes to show that there are no *right* answers.  Jeez, was I ever bagged when I wrote my first post on this thread.  It’s a miracle I made any sense at all.  Blame it on the Sleemans and keeping bad company (in-laws.) Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Interesting, I started fly fishing in 1948 and find that fishing a dry fly upstream to be the most successful method.  Only in special circumstances where the water is smooth and clear and the trout are "educated" do I use the downstream method. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh I started fly fishing in 1952, and the only hard and fast rule I have discovered is that in order to be succesful, you have to adapt your method to suit the current conditions.  As far as dry flies go, I find direct upstream fishing to usually be the least successful method because you will "line" the fish, and drag is difficult to control.   Usually a quartering upstream or side approach is best. If the surface of the water is not smooth, such as a riffle, the downstream method can be quite effective. As far as what other people think of your method, if it is legal, and you are not crowding or otherwise disturbing them, don’t worry about what they think. Tight Lines!!! George

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_______ Are you sure you’re not a professional troller Mr. Hart because I think you know the subject of dabbling a dry fly downstream. Mr. G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Watching ESPN2 recently I chanced across a young lady (seemingly well accomplished in the fly-fishing arts) guiding the show host on a snowy winter stream near Cooke City Montana.  She was fishing dry flys downstream. According to her "when the water is clear and the fish spook easily this prevents ""lining the fish"". Being a new student of the art, everything I read or listen to tells me dry flys Upstream, wet flys up or down stream and nymphing requires years of experience.  Now I wonder how far a trout is seeing upstream.  I have recently experienced "lining the fish" with a pod of three browns while fishing a streamer upstream.  The floating leader alone spooked the fish. Any thoughts on downstream dry fly fishing and range of sight for trout? As a side note: I have caught a couple of lesser fish when allowing the dry fly to float 20 to 30 feet behind me as I moved up stream in the hole.  I don’t consider this a method I wish to regularly adopt but peaks my curiosity about fish sight range. Wayne To fish is human…to release devine.

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Wayne Hart: <<Wayne To fish is human…to release devine. Uh oh!  Glad I’m not gonna be around for awhile. Dave L.

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Being a new student of the art, everything I read or listen to tells me dry flys Upstream, wet flys up or down stream and nymphing requires years of experience.  Now I wonder how far a trout is seeing upstream.  I have recently experienced "lining the fish" with a pod of three browns while fishing a streamer upstream.  The floating leader alone spooked the fish.

The library will help: the books of Vince Marinaro include up-to-date experiments on what fish can see and how far (studied since approx. 1875); Leonard Wright’s Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect (about 1973) explains at length a method of fishing a dry caddis across and downstream, and the times when this produces better than other methods. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Wayne:  I can’t add much to the series of informative replies already posted, but can share my experience that the hooking of trout when floating a dry downstream is trickier than with the upstream or across presentations.  I have always assumed that this is because when you strike, you are pulling the fly right out of the mouth.  When fishing upstream, a strike pulls the fly back into the side of the mouth.  Thus, my hooking rate declines when fishing downstream, even though I try to set the hook more softly. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being a new student of the art, everything I read or listen to tells me dry flys Upstream, wet flys up or down stream and nymphing requires years of experience.  Now I wonder how far a trout is seeing upstream.  I have recently experienced "lining the fish" with a pod of three browns while fishing a streamer upstream.  The floating leader alone spooked the fish. The library will help: the books of Vince Marinaro include up-to-date experiments on what fish can see and how far (studied since approx. 1875); Leonard Wright’s Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect (about 1973) explains at length a method of fishing a dry caddis across and downstream, and the times when this produces better than other methods. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She was fishing dry flys downstream. According to her "when the water is clear and the fish spook easily this prevents ""lining the fish"". Being a new student of the art, everything I read or listen to tells me dry flys Upstream, wet flys up or down stream and nymphing requires years of experience.  Now I wonder how far a trout is seeing upstream.  I have recently experienced "lining the fish" with a pod of three browns while fishing a streamer upstream.  The floating leader alone spooked the fish. Any thoughts on downstream dry fly fishing and range of sight for trout? As a side note: I have caught a couple of lesser fish when allowing the dry fly to float 20 to 30 feet behind me as I moved up stream in the hole.  I don’t consider this a method I wish to regularly adopt but peaks my curiosity about fish sight range.

Hi Wayne, Trout see best in front, and slightly above them.  They have binocular vision and can judge distances very well in about a 30

Question:

Man it is great right now!  Fish everywhere.  10 in each hole anyways.  I am a beginner but have not been skunked yet.  Need help though with what to use, any suggestions?

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Man it is great right now!  Fish everywhere.  10 in each hole anyways.  I am a beginner but have not been skunked yet.  Need help though with what to use, any suggestions?

Dear Seven; Try a light wire tied, size 8 Green Butted Skunk tied sparsely.  Also, if you know the pattern, try ‘the Green Ant’.  Both should skate across the current but I need to know where this river is to make sure I’m not telling you wrong.  However; these two patterns are standard ones in my Steelhead Box. Best of luck, George Gehrke/Mr. Gink

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WHERE IS ELK CREEK?

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Now Mr. Gehrke (Gink), this is what this newsgroup is all about.  Keep up the good work and let the other nonsense die. Tight lines and sharp hooks

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Jennifer, The meat fishermen (sic,fisherpersons) have distroyed Elk Creek so you might as well tell everyone where it is. That way if every fisherman in the world is there snaging fish we can go to other streams that are not as popular. Great idea….huh. Tight lines, David

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It’s 12 miles west of Corvallis, OR! Burton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WHERE IS ELK CREEK? It’s in Nebraska…no,no, it’s a mile or so from the Bighole….wait, that’s the wrong Elk Creek. Ummmmm, lemme see, I think it’s near Stone Mountain Ga. Yup, thats it, Stone Mountain. Oh, THAT ELK CREEK!!!! It’s in Upstate NY. Pullin’ ‘em tight and lettin’ ‘em go somewhere on Elk Creek, Tom. It’s also about 14 miles West of Erie, PA. Jason Beary

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WHERE IS ELK CREEK? It’s in Nebraska…no,no, it’s a mile or so from the Bighole….wait, that’s the wrong Elk Creek. Ummmmm, lemme see, I think it’s near Stone Mountain Ga. Yup, thats it, Stone Mountain. Oh, THAT ELK CREEK!!!! It’s in Upstate NY. Pullin’ ‘em tight and lettin’ ‘em go somewhere on Elk Creek, Tom.

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WHERE IS ELK CREEK?Guard PA Not far from Erie PA on rout 18.

Water gin clear, use nymphs (small). The steelies will spoke to other flies. Roger

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Question:

Will be in South Carolina, on the coast, the 1st week of June and am looking for some fly fishing ideas.  

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This months Flyfisherman magazine has a detailed story about fishing in S. Carolina.

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In the May 1996 issue of Fly Fisherman there is a great article on SC inshore fishing.  I’m going to go there myself in August and plan to fish with a guide so i read the article with interest.  Check it out–if you can’t find it, email me.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be in South Carolina, on the coast, the 1st week of June and am looking for some fly fishing ideas.  

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Question:

How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

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(Charles Taylor) writes: How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

Chuck, All of the Truckee on the California side is closed.  The Nevada side is open and you should give the Reno Fly Shop (702) 827-0600 a call to find out if the water’s warm enough.  Needs to be in the mid 40’s at least to do much good.                                                    Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Schools Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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How’s the fishing on the Truckee this time of year?  Would I be wasting my time if I were to go out this weekend (I don’t feel like driving to Pyramid Lake)?  The water seems very cold, but does that mean trout go totally dormant in the winter.  What patterns work this time of year.

HI CHUCK-    Our weather has been unseasonably warm with resultant runoff. The fishing is poor in the river. Sorry.    -Ralph —

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Question:

I have a short list of about a dozen fishing books (mostly fly fishing) these are out-of-print or first edition copies.  If you collect books on fishing, or just love to read about it (you probably do if you are on this list)  you might enjoy my occasional lists of sporting books. Thank you for reading. David Holloway

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Iam looking for a copy of "the compleat angler"can you help. nav9200

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