Question:
Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy.
So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700.
Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"
And this is wrong too. Your MSRPs for your product line rods are higher (and in some cases considerably higher) than the price of most handmade rods which, as you have admitted yourself in the past, have higher quality.
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The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth.
For those in the know (such as my cat) the inter-galactic postal service now requires both "Galaxy" AND "ZIP + AZ + RA" for speedy delivery… 
K
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Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them? Playing Poker over at Wayne Harrison’s house: Joker’s Wild? Glad to see you’re not brain dead yet by responding to my troll of vulgarity. My apologies for the civilized language. Mr.G. "back to regular casting"
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical… Whoa, right here ass hole. You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods. Admit it! Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes?
You should learn to read and comprehend and control your infamous short-temper. You are supposed to be a mature adult, so why not start acting like one. I did not say your rods are of bad quality. I asked if they were really worth $1600 to $3000, which are prices commanded by top quality, hand made rods, constructed by gentlemen with many years of craftmanship behind them. You have often commneted yourself that your rods are of porduction line quality, and, while they may or may not be the best production line rods in the world, I find it hard to believe they are of the same quality level as the handmade rods, and therefore worth an equivalent amount. So, I ask you, would you put your rod with a MSRP of $3000 (note, I said MSRP, not "special online price") up against a hand-made rod charged at $3000? Would you gurantee your rod to be of the same quality and standard as that handmade rod? I’ll tell you what. I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard. I will defy you to be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch. What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan
I have no wish whatsoever to do business with a man who uses such language and shows such obvious contempt for his "customers". I am very choosy about who I give my money to. Sorry.
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Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here…
Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark
You can always order factory direct as ours don’t sell for that there Clark. Even the cost of postage would be cheaper than what it takes you to drive to the store. Your Pal, George
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Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark
Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD? Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous. Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R
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Rusty? I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly. What does change are coatings and finishes. That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines. The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair. Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke. Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced. I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this. A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57. Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line. If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth. How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not. It’s nothing to get excited about. Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone? I keep saying this time and time again. The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not. Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"
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Yep! Clark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Is there money to be made smuggling Albolene to NZ? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
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Yep basically but my point was, even at $8.00 US, for what it is some people just are not in a position to be bitching about how Cortland prices its lines, apart from the obvious factors already pointed out about the engineering and development and manufacture of new lines. Cortland didn’t just find a material used to keep ladies knickers up and repackage it as an expensive fly line. Clark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark Um, isn’t that about 8.00USD? Granted, more expensive than in the US, but considering the costs involved versus the market, that doesn’t, on the face of it, sound so outrageous. Of course, if it’s Ginkle’s Gunk, I can see the basis for your confusion… TC, R
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Yep basically but my point was, even at $8.00 US, for what it is some people just are not in a position to be bitching about how Cortland prices its lines, apart from the obvious factors already pointed out about the engineering and development and manufacture of new lines. Cortland didn’t just find a material used to keep ladies knickers up and repackage it as an expensive fly line.
My article on how easy it is to put some PVC plastic on a string apart from engineering which has been done years ago and paid for ten thousand times over, machinery that hasn’t changed in fifty years in making the web core and the automated ejection dies that cost a dime a dozen, is long ago paid for. It is just the change of plastic advances. Cortland or S.Anglers all buy the plastics by the thousand pound box lots and it’s cheap. The cost of the plastic coating the fly line you’re using today is about a 1/20th of a cent worth, if that. I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced. George Gehrke The exchange rate where you are is indeed just numbers. You have the same buying power and that is not America’s fault now, is it? How much money is good wages per hour there? A hundred dollars an hour or three dollars an hour?
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rusty? I did an extensive article with drawings on how fly lines are made. The engineering has been paid for long ago and that deals with line tapers mainly. What does change are coatings and finishes. That is all. The process is so simple as to boggle the mind and the cost of making a fly line is indeed one of the lowest in American Manufacturing in the industry. This is why one can readily appreciate HOW a company like Cortland can afford full page ads in magazines. The profit margin is so vast as to be literally obnoxious and unfair. Just like Frog Butt, the fly fishermen of America are NOT getting a square or honest deal when it comes to fly lines. No joke. Fly lines from all the manufacturers are over priced. I mean, WAY over priced! Consider this. A Cortland 333 or 444 could be bought in Wal-Mart here in Lewiston Idaho just a week ago and for several years for the low, Low, LOW price of only $11.57. Would you like to hear the rest of the story? The new (and I wonder about this term as a hype bite) 555 Cortland costs no more to make than any other Cortland Fly Line. If they cost more, okay; I’ll let you increase that factor about what this article is worth. How about .02 Cents? George Gehrke Each of these fly lines all cast the same, believe it or not. It’s nothing to get excited about. Fly lines are expendable and as far as I’m concerned, the 555 should sell for LESS THAN Twenty dollars per line. You know everyone? I keep saying this time and time again. The packaging costs more than what it takes to make a fly line and the labor required is not much at all, but for some odd reason this fact just doesn’t soak in. Fly line companies need to be boycotted if you want to get them back into the honesty game, like it or not. Thing is, it’s all I mainly fish with is Cortland Fly Lines but I use only the fairly priced ones and always will. George Gehrke "Inside Trade Secrets"
"I assure everyone here, you can build the finest bamboo fly rod in the world for less then $50 – $65 dollars. " George Gehrke, 31 December 1998 Quoted _retail price_ on www.gink.com = $1620 Profit = 1620 – 80 = $1540 (allowing for some inflation!) % Profit = almost 2000 %. That’s quite some markup! Note: This is not the "special offer if you buy via the internet price", but the manufacturer’s suggested retail price for a Blonde model. If you want a Black Raven at MDRP of $3000, the markup is closer to 3650 %. It is up to the reader to decide whether these are the "finest bamboo" in the world. What should we think about such high markups? "The more commercial you become the lower the manufacturing costs UP to a CERTAIN point. Then things average out to around $49.95 each. THAT rod is now being sold for $2500! Which is such a con job as to require all of us to march upon Orvis and other Overpricing Fly Rod Manufacturers who are "Over-Charging" and we should slap them silly. " George Gehrke, 31 December 1998 What can we do but agree with this sage advice. The line forms on my right… 
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"Rapscallion" YOU! You chickenshit sonofabitch, who doesn’t have the balls to present your own real name dares to challenge me, the God and Ruler of Roff? I’m George Gehrke, the one and only. Who are you. Nothing? George Gehrke "a somebody" And proud of it.
Where the fuck are those guys in white coats when you need them?
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"Rapscallion" YOU! You chickenshit sonofabitch, who doesn’t have the balls to present your own real name dares to challenge me, the God and Ruler of Roff? I’m George Gehrke, the one and only. Who are you. Nothing? George Gehrke "a somebody" And proud of it.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. So until you give me a new figure let’s work with a 100% increase on costs over the past four years (although I can’t beleive it should be this high). That still implies a helathy profit of several 100%. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Check your own website. I clearly stated I was using the MSRP which is quoted at $1620 to $3000. This is the price you expect a retailer to charge for your rods. or did you post a hugely inflated MSRP in order to make your rods appear to be worth more tahn they really are. Surely that would be unethical…
Whoa, right here ass hole. You don’t know for jack shit the quality of our fly rods. Admit it! Where is your source of knowledge derived from?? Other assholes? I’ll tell you what. I dare you, if you wish to see a beautiful bamboo to order one and in your case you will pay in advance for a Bastard for a bastard. I will defy you to be able to find fault with it compared to any other bamboo fly rod in the world. Okay, you chicken shit son of a bitch. What say you? George Gehrke bamboosan
Response:
For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long.
This is very true, but misleading and not entirely correct. The general rule of thumb that I have found is that wholesale is roughly half of retail and wholesale is over two times the cost of production. You are basically paying for the manufacturer to make a profit and then the retailer to make a profit. My friend was signed up with several business that had guide programs and I got to see some of the price sheets for Orvis and others. What was costing me $5 (brass beads), he was getting for $1.50 or so. If you knew the mark up on stuff like hackle, fly rods, etc you would shit your pants, which wouldn’t be a problem if you were paying wholesale because you could afford a pair just to crap in. The glasses I wanted that were $150, he could get for $45. Unlike other industries, the mark ups on fly fishing gear is huge. Those that are able to afford it do so. Those that can’t afford it but still want it sacrifice and buy it anyways. Those that can’t afford it buy something that is a good substitute but within their price range. I think the fly fishing industry has basically nickled and dimed us over the years to find the upper limits of what we are willing to pay as consumers and have been very effective at doing so. The few manufacturers that start off at discounted prices eventually join up with the rest and start charging the same as everyone else. Look at rod prices for instance. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html
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Actually, flyrods are more since that was quoted correctly. Secondary part costs have increased dramatically since the Clinton defascoes and Greenspan screw ups with the economy. You have not used the correct price at all. Most of the fly rods are around $500 – $700. Just the ferrules which are all American Made usually are nearly $200 worth. That is not my idea of fair pricing either. Then there are the Agate Guides, snake guides, reel seat, cork, labor. No, we don’t over charge but you sure do know how to blue sky and put things out of context. As a Roffian, you fit right in. George Gehrke "bamboosan" http://www.gink.com George Gehrke "lowest priced bamboo fly rods regardless"
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I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced.
For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know what a fair price for a fly line is and you don’t Clark. I’m telling you that you can make it sound extravagant but it isn’t. The art work on a fly line box is more extravagant than the line, believe that. My point is simple. Fly lines are over priced. For just about any manufactured goods, the cost of raw materials is minor compared to the costs incurred in research and development, manufacture, distribution, and promotion. Basing the "fair price" of a flyline on the cost of bulk PVC is about the same as saying that split-cane flyrods shouldn’t cost any more than 20 or 30 dollars because they are made of little more than bamboo, cork, steel, and nickel. Besides that, there is currently enough competition in the fly line market that I seriously doubt that an artificially high price would last for very long. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
You make a compelling point and I bow to it. George
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Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls
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Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications?
Depends what you require of it. We do a lot of reservoir fishing from boats here in the U.K. We use everything from neutral density (barely breaks through the surface) through to some fairly scary high density fly lines (e.g. Airflo DI7 and DI8). Note that these last named are proper casting tapers, not just lengths of lead core trolling line. If I were to pick only one sinking line, I’d probably choose a 3M Scientific Anglers WetCel 1 intermediate – popularly known here by its colour: the ‘Kelly Green’. It’s a nice line to cast and generally useful. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon
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Some people wonder why the hell little bottles of Floatant sell for $20 NZ here… Clark
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill? I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make. Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today. These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth… The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
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Bill? I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make. Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today. These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth…
The 555 is a new line, and the people who developed it, advertise it, distribute it, etc, all need to get paid. If they sold for only $15, the engineers (and others) currently in the flyfishing industry would move on to greener pastures, or the companies would go out of business. Maybe both. With the kind of fishing I do, and the kind of budget I’m currently living with, the budget lines made by Cortland and SA suit me just fine. OTOH, it’s nice to know that they (and others) are constantly innovating. There is a price to pay for having the newest, slickest line, but judging by the sales of high-end fly tackle, there are plenty of customers who are willing to pay for it, just as there are plenty of others who are willing to stay with the older-generation lines in order to save money for other things. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming
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Hi Steve, We sell most the full sinking weight forward slow sinking clear lines for a lakes. The Cortland "444 Clear Camo" is the most popular here in California, USA, planet earth. Years ago the WF6S type 2, SA or Cortland was the most popular lake line. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any opinions on the best full sinking line for stillwater applications? steve haun sioux falls
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Bill? I went to my favorite or nearest Fly Shop and looked at the Cortland 555 and for $60 Cortland isn’t offering much for something that only cost them .87 Cents to make. Hell, the packaging cost more! I just wish there was more honesty in fly line pricing than what is taking place in America today. These fly lines should not be retailing for any more than about $15 each and this is the truth. I walked into Lewiston’s Wal-Mart to buy some Cortland 444 fly lines for about the same low price of around $15 and this store said that Wal-Mart pulled not only the Cortland Fly Lines and ALL Fly Line brands but the leaders. I no sooner got outside to my electronics center (Pick Up) and called 1-800-Wal-Mart and we had a serious discussion about this issue. Seems their light bulb may have come back on. We will see. George