Question:

Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . .

Neat report.  Sounds like you already had a chance to fly fish some quality water.  Tight lines. Mu

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Nice TR, Marshall. Sounds like you had a pretty good guide.

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Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish.

Marshall, it was very close to there that I decided to take up fly fishing more seriously!  I had dabbled a little, but I was spinning on this particular trip to Yosemite.  I saw some trout in a feeding lane in a small clear pool, and there was no way I could catch them on my little spinner. It drove me nuts.  I decided then and there I was going to flyfish and next time I see some fish like those, I’m gonna get ‘em, dammit!  Fun trip.  I hiked down a trail (Tuolomne?) and ran into a couple guys camping who had a massive wild brown they caught on a Rapala in a deep canyon section.  Yup, different techniques are best for different conditions

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Since it seems my employeer is blocking post’s to UseNet – it is a little old but . . . My first TR, so here goes . . . Location:  Merced River – Yosemite National Park, CA            Off Hwy 140, 1 mile below the 120/140 stop sign Elevation: 4,000 ft Date/Time: Saturday, Nov. 4th, 2001 [11am-4:30pm] Pictures located at: http://homepage.mac.com/mkrasser/PhotoAlbum4.html This is still my freshman year of flyfishing, [I started last Aug. 2001 on the Big Wood River in Sun Valley, ID.  Followed by a trip in Sept to the Feather River [Ca], 5 weeks ago I was at Putah Creek, [Ca], 4 weeks ago the Russian River [Ca], and 2 weeks ago a trip on the Klamath River [Ca] (K.R. pictures included at above web location). A quick Mini-TR on the Kamath,  the Salmon fishing was hot!  BUT, since we were NOT using flies I will not detail the 20 fish we caught and released [barbless hooks and roe] we did keep 2 for the smoker. I will mention the Steelhead that we were targeting with flies in the fast water . . . I forgot to "bow to the fish" do I need to say more? I lost the nice 6-7 pounder (guide est.) when it jumped for joy.  I had another major slam that I missed [using a mossback fly] as well.  We did manage to catch/release several nice native trout in our quest for Mr. Steelhead [top lft picure]. Merced River:   This is the river that flows right through the middle of Yosemite, and gets heavy fishing pressure in the summer.  The guide I hired took us down below where most of the crowd fish. This was mega-pocket water!!!  This late in the year, the water level is rather low and is super clear [16 ft leaders, ouch].  Lucky for us, the valley received a light rain the Wed. before our arrival, so the system received a last minute boost before winter.  Anyway, we were climbing over bus size granite boulders and rock hopping cross-stream, to get the perfect angle for the pockets.   I should mention that I dragged my wife along on her first flyfishing outing this day.  I was hoping that I could provide here with a positive experience on this trip, but according to the guide . . . this time of year, and on this river, a PHD is required.  The guide was very hands on and worked with both of us to get the technique down, but he tended to want to do most of the casting himself [we could hold the rod under his hand, though].  Using this technique, he was able to get her hooked into a nice bright orange native male – I was too far away to snap a photo   Even on this cool November day [30's rising to the mid 60's] there was a Baetis and Caddis hatch happening.  When we arrived at the first pool, our guide went nuts – there were at least 5 trout rising to the hatch at the head of the pool and at least one was a brown.   He worked with both of us at this pool, and we both missed our strikes – we then headed up stream to rest these fish.  And found others just as eager to miss our flies as well. I could just NOT see the sz18 Baetis fly in the pocket water.  Cool a swirl, guide say’s ah that was your fly he was swirling at!   We then went back down to pool #1 for try #2 at the fish – same result.  So we headed back upstream again.   We climbed up on this huge boulder and butt dragged to look over the edge – wow TWO 18-20 inchers directly below us.  Hmmm the Guide forgot to warn my wife as to why he and I were moving this way . . . so she walked right up to the edge and said, "oh look – fishies", and they said, "oh look human – goodbye".  Luckly this boulder was so huge it was in 2 zip codes, so they crawled [see pic: guide w/wife] to the head of the rock, and worked that pool. They just could not get the distance needed from here, so the guide and I moved down to water level and I missed another nice one.   We split sides here and I headed to a pool on the left and they headed to what looked like a prime pool.  With the guide’s assistance, BAM – she hooked-up and landed the bright male [14 incher].  On that note we headed back down to pool #1 again [my wet leg and all <grin].   The fish were happily slurping up the emergers and this time I connected.  As my wife pointed out . . . mine was not as big or as pretty as her’s [whatever].  We then hopped in our 4×4’s and headed downstream to what would be prime pocket water for me.   The guide worked a little more with my wife on her casting, but he was not quite patient enough [in my opinion], and I could tell she was getting bored and frustrated.   She said, go on ahead – I’ll rest here – ya right . . . she whipped out her knitting from her backpack and that was the end of that.   The guide and I headed into the land of small pocket water [I was casting rather well un-assisted by now - the guide was surprised - I was one with the line].  Interesting note that probably has no bearing on my flycasting targeting – but I was a deadly bait caster from my Table Rock Lake days – growing up in Missouri – I could flip that plastic worm or jig-n-pig right were I wanted it in the fallen/flooded timber at rather great distances [no use here in California].   Anyway,  I pulled 2 nice ones out of the first pocket just above the main pool and missed another 3 as well.  We figured they had moved up out of the still water to feed.  I was using a caddis pattern [that I could see] for these puppies.   We moved on up to one more small pocket, and the guide made me call where the strike would occur [he nailed it exactly in the previous pocket].  I called it, but after 4 casts and no take – the guide said let’s go home – must not be there.  One more cast I pleaded and that one did it – right where I called it <grin.   As the light started to fade we walked back to our vehicles and called it a day, in this land of giant rocks and golden sunlight. Sorry for the length, Marshall

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Question:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down.

DAMN!  That’s some fine fishin’ – catchin’ without even casting….<G They were using worms and chopped perch meat.

And if you wanted perch, may I ask why you didn’t do what they were doing? My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend?

Ones that look and smell like worms and chopped perch meat.   Seriously (and yes, I do mean this seriously), why bother, if the goal is catching those perch?  If the goal is simply experimenting to see if it can be done, then, yes, it can, but don’t confuse it with FF’ing (in the "traditional" sense).  It seems if you’re interested in catching perch, you’ve seen what works (and works remarkably well) for catching them.  I guess I don’t understand the desire to catch anything and everything on a fly rod.  Some things just don’t really lend themselves to "flyfishing" (as one normally thinks of FF’ing, and yes, I realize one can rig up something), and IMO, fishing that deep is one of them.  By the time you get rigged, you’re going to essentially combining bait-casting with a fly rod.   I suppose there’s nothing "wrong" with that, but why not just bait-cast with bait-casting gear, or if one is some kind of FF’ing-gear-only snot, just don’t fish for those things and live with the fact that if you’re gonna be a snot, you lose out. To me, it’s sorta like asking, "I saw a Porsche 996 racing on TV.  I have a Suburban/Camry/Ford sedan/Volvo station wagon/(some other unsuited vehicle).  Could I race like that?   Can I do something to my vehicle to make it work?"   Yeah, probably.  But again, why? (assuming the goal is racing, and not converting vehicles)  You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for the task at hand? Thanks for the info.

Pretty sure it’s not the info you wanted, but you’re welcome. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ryan

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Well, if my geometry is right your going to have to cast out 53 feet of line to be at a 35 foot depth 35 feet from where you’re standing. Full sinking line? I’d try a clouser or better yet, a pearl chenille bead/cone head wooly buger. john

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Use the 5 wt rod and fish with little streamers. For example in summer at dog days a freind of mine uses a fly called Jule Trae and a sink tip. He always catches some perch. Good luck and tight lines Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

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R- Points well taken. Thanks, Ryan -Snip-

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You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for

Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can take out a screw with a butter knife and butter toast with a screwdriver, too, but why not just use the most appropriate and best-suited tool(s) for Splendid. And thank you. You’ve covered more than fishing here. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the focus of the job at hand. Drew (with a callused spot on my forehead)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

In that location, worm dunking seems to be your only choice.  However, I’ve caught plenty of perch in the shallows using a two weight and beadhead nymphs.  They take very gently so sight fishing to them in clear water is best.  Small streamers should work too. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour?

Me feeling is that the fly rod might be the very best tool for the job under most conditions when bass are shallow. When bass are deep, we especially should not fish C&R for them, so this isn’t much of a quandary…. TBone

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Um, are you sure Spork likes going out and having a ball with you and nightcrawlers?  If PETA (or, possibly, the Colorado State Police) finds out, you’re in BIG trouble…are you sure it isn’t illegal in Colorado, as it is in a number of the other several States… Oh, wait…did you mean you were FISHING with Spork?  Well, he must be about gone by now, and frankly, that’s pretty mean just for a few perch.  Whoda thunk dachshund were below perch on the food chain….

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<lake washington experiment snipped Drive over to Green Lake and fish dry flies off the pier for landlocked salmon instead. Bring a radio and listen to Niehaus do the Mariners playoff games. Ogle the joggers. Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips. Have an Oberto Cocktail Pep. Bring a buncha BWOs. Watch out for the goose poop. – sid sometimes missing seattle

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips…….

I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

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…….Bring a bag of Tim’s Cajun chips……. I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Wolfgang

It’s even worse. It is unethical. Herman

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I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO. The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball. Your pal, — TBone

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info. Ryan

Response:

I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical. We should not close our eyes to all other kinds of fishing, IMO.

Can’t argue that, but then there’s always the challenge of doing something the hard way The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

"Spork", eh? Perfect. /daytripper (I shoulda known

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :(

Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

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I knew it.  I just KNEW it!  First it’s fish, then it’s Dachshunds, and now Cajuns.  That’s just wrong!    :( Dang, I missed it again!  What’s wrong with Dachshunds?

Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

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  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw.

Try cutting them up into smaller pieces, and chewing them a little longer. hth, Kevin, hoping you didn’t misspell "cojones"

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[snip] Well, aside from a reputed susceptibility to back problems and the usual unsavory canine hygiene practices, not a thing that I can think of.  It’s the Cajuns that stick in my craw. Wolfgang

1. Let me report that you may remove the word "reputed" from the above.  I have 2 Dachshunds, 1 with a "slipped disc" that has caused her to lose partial movement in her rear legs. 2. What kind of ‘unsavory canine hygience practices’ could you be referring to?  You mean when they drag all sorts of dead (either that they’ve killed, or just found) rodents to my door?  You mean when they kill a rat and decide to *eat* half of it, and bring me the legs (you know those little bones just irritate their gums)?  You mean smelling around for dog crap and then eating it (no, it never happens, really) if it really smells ‘good’? You mean…well, I think I get the picture… Rob p.s. got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

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…..got a craw stuck in my teeth at the last Cajun festival..:)

Hm….this could lead to all sorts of recursive ruminations. Wolfgang where’s max smart when you really need him?

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 I love to flyfish, but there’s a hell of a lot to be said for all kinds of fishing and I am of the personal opinion that we get dogmatic about using the flyrod even at times when it is simply not practical.

I don’t guess whether you mean using fly rods on the B.A.S.S. pro tour? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7zSGtrpli/675/DERAlGdAKCDXQHl4/+d80An8f3CJfvXyzMdmACeNJy3 7Gq+de7flkgrCo01m39YZXA= =Ropa —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

The perch are biting here, at Waneka, and I have been out with nightcrawlers and my dachsund Spork for three weekends in a row and we’ve been having a ball.

Sure you can eat perch with a dachshund Spork, but why not use the right tool for the job?

Response:

I don’t know rdean may have somethin’ here.  I have several heavy weight flyrods, but perching on them just doesn’t sound like a good idea. Op

Not in ten feet of water.. but they are a lot of fun to fish for in the shallows! Herman

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yesterday afternoon I wondered down the street to a pier on Lake Washington to test cast my new 3wt rod and reel. I didn’t intend to catch anything and low and behold, I didn’t. Had a great time casting the new rod though. As I was packing up to leave three guys joined me on the pier set up to baitcast for perch. It didn’t take them 1 cast a piece before they were reeling in 5-8 inch perch from approximately 35 feet down. They were using worms and chopped perch meat. My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? Thanks for the info.

well, as others have said, it might be tough reaching where the conventional anglers were fishing with light tackle… but in lake washington there are places to catch them in shallower water. when i was a kid, i was a perch killing maniac at lake washington.  i fished the wooden bridges at the walking trails near the arboreum (you can see them driving the 520 bridge).  i fished small jigs tipped with a chunk of worm, but i don’t doubt that a small white wooley bugger with a conehead, beadhead, or weighted eyes would work.  i did best around some of the sunken timber near the edges…. but it has been awhile.  and i also did best in july and august. give it a shot, and there’s nothing like fishing next to a bridge jammed with rush hour traffic (which now is almost all day). chris

Response:

I wouldn’t fish for them with a fly rod in that situation.  5 weight with a sink tip probably wouldn’t reach them.  Maybe with a Clouser Minnow. In shallow water I’ve caught lots of perch that size with nymphs and small streamers (Clousers, marabou Thundercreeks).  And perch more than twice that size on the streamers.  Fun with a 3 weight. Glenn << My question for the group: How would you go about catching perch on a fly rod off a pier? I have a 3wt, floating line with sink shot, or a 5wt with sink tip. What flies would you recommend? << Ryan GKT

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Question:

I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  

I have a Wilderness System’s Ride and it’s great to fish from. I don’t think I could tip it over if I wanted to. — Charlie…

Response:

My experience with SOT’s is that they are wet and you need to wear neoprene on cool days. I have fished from my Folbot double kayak with OK results. Too bad inflatables are deflatables. I am now looking at the Kiwi Lobo and the Poke Boat.  Duck hunters like the Poke, so it is probably the most commodious.  However, the Lobo is supposed to be way nicer to paddle. Ken (to reply via email remove "zz" from address)

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I recently purchased a Cobra Explorer Sit on Top.  These sit on tops are great and I already been doing very well both in salt and fresh water with it.   Damian NuWave Tackle Innovative products designed by fishermen for fishermen Fly Tying / Rod Building Equipment, Tackle… http://www.nuwavetackle.com/

Response:

I’ve been using a Prism by Perception for about four months now and am pleased with the overall performance. It tracks well,is quiet, and quick. Did an overnighter float from below Austin, Texas to Bastrop and was pleasantly surprised by just how many unnecessary items I could fit into the two large hatches. …downsides: The bottom of the boat where your feet rest always has water in it. easily two inches of water. Can’t stand up on it. If you have decent balance, you can stand up to cast with a Malibu 2, but try paddling one of those tankers. I’ve also seen the front end dip under water when paddling with and riding some small waves kicked up by the wind. and this is on a lake, no telling how it would do in surf.   Casting sitting down is not a problem, I just can’t cast as far. It’s fun to fish from  and( a decent sized fish will drag you around), to me, the space in the hatches outweighs the water at my feet. I’ve taken to placing a couple of those car-top foam blocks under the footpegs… keeps the feet dry. Good luck, PZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

Talking it over with the SO (she says the only real advantage to the Frenzy is smaller females can rack it easily, but I agree it is more river-friendly, FWIW) and another kayaking friend, we agree with your points 1, 2, and 3, but have you looked at the O.K. Scrambler?  A little bigger, more stable – done the Yucatan, Alaska, Keys, Texas Coast, etc. on one, you can even easily dive from one – but again, not quite as easy handling on a river.  Have you talked to Southwest Paddle Sports?  They have a website I think.  Talk to Patty and tell her Eliz and the gang from Ft. Worth set ya.   HTH? TC, R

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I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

Response:

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I know nothing of kayaks but so long as you’re soliciting feedback please allow me to congratulate you on one of your quips that has long been one of my favorite quotes: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.                                   -Raoul Duke- — Ken Fortenberry

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sitting in (a kayak not music) has to be more stable (secure not horse) than sitting on top ( boats not se…..never mind) john (I’m fishin out of a keowee) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m considering purchasing a sit-on-top kayak for flyfishing the flats and marshes on the Texas Coast.  The model I’ve been lusting after is the Ocean Kayak Frenzy.  Does anybody have any input re: fishing from these kayaks, or any type of kayak?  Has anybody tried casting from these kayaks? The Frenzy is appealing to me because (1) it is relatively inexpensive ($400); (2) it looks quite versatile (can be used in whitewater and the surf as well); and (3) it appears to be easily transported. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RD

Response:

Question:

Hello all, This is my third year fly fishing and I am gearing up for another great season. I live in NH which I feel fortunate for because we have some fine fishing up here. My question…I’m wondering what the lifespan of my line is? I have scientific angler on my reel and it has served me well for the last two years I keep it clean and it casts smooth but is it time to retire it and re-line my reel? Upon examination the line seems to have many little kinks in it, I mean very small kinks, but it doesn’t seem to affect the cast. I need the proverbial collective wisdom. Keith

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Is your line cracked? If it has many tiny cracks–it’s time to get a new one. I fish every day in the summer–and I’m very lucky to get one entire season out of a flyline.

Response:

Hello all, This is my third year fly fishing and I am gearing up for another great season. I live in NH which I feel fortunate for because we have some fine fishing up here. My question…I’m wondering what the lifespan of my line is? I have scientific angler on my reel and it has served me well for the last two years I keep it clean and it casts smooth but is it time to retire it and re-line my reel? Upon examination the line seems to have many little kinks in it, I mean very small kinks, but it doesn’t seem to affect the cast. I need the proverbial collective wisdom. Keith

Cleaner and Dressing, Gehrke’s PZ.  It will return the plasticizers back into it.  Naturally, it is the only product in the world that can/will do that Keith.  If your fly line isn’t cracked yet, which is the next thing it will do if you start casting and stretching it in this condition (before PZ repairing it) you should get a new fly line even if for just a back up. Keep them in the fridge in the off season in zip lock bags.  This keeps the plasticizers from evaporating.  Fly lines DO HAVE a short shelf life.  They hate light, sun light, heat, and especially water but definitely, soap and water is worse still.  This statement trashes all the wives tales on how to best clean fly lines.  Do not use soap and water unless you have PZ Fly Line Dressing and Cleaner immediately at hand Keith.  Finally, if the cost of a fly line is of concern, trot down to Wal-Mart and get a Cortland fly line for only $11.57.  These are all I fish excepting of course Lee Wulff Triangle Taper Fly Lines. Hope this information is of help to you buddy. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com        http://www.xink.com        http://www.rodbuilding.com        http://www.rodbuilder.com All Writings & Rights Reserved

Question:

I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick Try asking on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly which is a mainly US based NG, you should get some good info there, if they can tear themselves away from the catch and release debate for long enough — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Nick: I lived in Bolivia last year.  There is a large fish called Serubi(spelling is wrong) that would be a challenge to catch on a fly rig.  But if you do your in for some good eating! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was hoping that someone out there might have some information about flyfishing in Brazil. I was thinking of travelling to either Pantanal or Rio Grande do Sul.  I am really beginning my quest, so if anyone can suggest any other areas please let me know. I believe that the Dorado is much fished for as well as the peacock bass in the Amazon, does anyone know of other species? Thank you for your help. Nick Palliser

Response:

Question:

If you are fishing for subsistence, you wouldn’t be using a fly rod. A line, hook, and worms are much more efficient.     – Ken If you cannot outfish your local worm angler you need more practice.  You should catch more by stalking and moving than those who sit and wait for fish to come to them.  Worms catch the fresh planters and little ones but most of the big ones want something natural, like a #2 wooly bugger.

 I’ve seen people catch some darn nice catfish on worms and chicken livers. Fly fishing with homemade flies is cheaper than worm fishing.  You can catch fifty or a hundred trout on one fly that costs ten cents to make.

Worms are free, monofilament is cheap, and all you need is a stick. … and remember – worms appear to feel pain when you impale them on a hook.

))))) Later,      - Ken

Response:

I never said that C&K is necessary.  I said, in my view, it is preferable. My posts regarding C&K are mainly because I get so tired of all the C&R people who believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground because they choose to use fish for entertainment instead of nourishment. -Mark/Particle Salad Particle Salad/Noom Room Studio http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad

Response:

I never said that C&K is necessary.  I said, in my view, it is preferable. My posts regarding C&K are mainly because I get so tired of all the C&R people who believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground because they choose to use fish for entertainment instead of nourishment. -Mark/Particle Salad

Keeping some portion of the post you are responding to is usually helpful… just a suggestion. That said, the reverse appears to be true in this newsgroup.  The C&K people believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground.  There has been very little talk of C&R being morally superior.  The fact being that the majority of people here seem to practice a hybrid of the two forms, releasing most of their catch but keeping a couple for a meal once in a while. Later,      - Ken

Response:

I never said that C&K is necessary.  I said, in my view, it is preferable. My posts regarding C&K are mainly because I get so tired of all the C&R people who believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground because they choose to use fish for entertainment instead of nourishment. That said, the reverse appears to be true in this newsgroup.  The C&K people believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground.  There has been very little talk of C&R being morally superior.

… that’s for sure. At least here i have been challenged several times to prove c&r was ethically defensible and *most* of my arguments have been attempts to refute the claims that c&r is unethical, selfish, greedy, wanton and just a plain evil. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Particle Salad wrote My posts regarding C&K are mainly because I get so tired of all the C&R people who believe they are somehow taking the moral high ground because they choose to use fish for entertainment instead of nourishment.

You got it wrong, Part.  When they do take a holier-than-thou stance it’s because they see themselves helping to preserve the fishery for others to use.  Now, you may debate whether or not they are correct in that feeling, but please understand that using fish for entertainment instead of table fare is not the issue that makes them feel superior. As a matter of fact, it’s the other way round.  Tim, Jon et al, (and you too, I believe), have taken the holier-than-thou stance based on the fact that you choose to use fish (at least some of the time) for nourishment rather than solely for entertainment. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Harvest angling is not about subsistence. That’s a ridiculous oxymoron. It’s obvious no one on this ng needs to fish for essential nutrition exactly equivalent to fish they may catch. To suggest otherwise is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Poor people from rural counties in California definitely fish and hunt for food, and you are right that these folks aren’t here on the internet, but that does not mean that they don’t exist or aren’t relevant to this discussion.  Sure they could get by without wild foods in these areas where there are no jobs. Many of them do so by growing pot or manufacturing speed while others come to the major cities for homeless food kitchens.

If you are fishing for subsistence, you wouldn’t be using a fly rod. A line, hook, and worms are much more efficient.      - Ken

Response:

Harvest angling is not about subsistence. That’s a ridiculous oxymoron. It’s obvious no one on this ng needs to fish for essential nutrition exactly equivalent to fish they may catch. To suggest otherwise is an insult to everyone’s intelligence.

bear with me Mark…. Poor people from rural counties in California definitely fish and hunt for food,

what are you suggesting that hunting and fishing be restricted to the poor by some sort of means test? When backpacking I rely on trout for protein and also eat mushrooms and morels, berries and wild salad greens.  I live outdoors 50% of the time and the one trout per week that I eat on average definitely makes a difference in my budget.  

perhaps it does – but I take it you are not going to the Thompson to catch your Thanksgiving Steelhead? I did not say you couldn’t – I said the subsistence argument – the argument that justifies fishing only for essential nutrition is hollow  and so out of whack with modern society it is an insult to our intelligence. As it is the basis for the whole ethical/unethical question that amkes this c&r vs c&k argument go round the whole thing is as baseless as a house of cards. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

[deleted] Tim how do you know you represent their views? Have you done some research have you polled them? Talked to them all individually?

[deleted] Well…theres the CFF and the letter to the editor of the local paper I read the other day…and uh…a buncha people I talk to regulalry, but you’re right…NO scientific poll was conducted ! I wonder if I can use the same pollsters that inquire how many people would have taken Monica up on her offer too… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] If you are fishing for subsistence, you wouldn’t be using a fly rod. A line, hook, and worms are much more efficient.

The flyrod’s only a deke. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

[deleted] If you are fishing for subsistence, you wouldn’t be using a fly rod. A line, hook, and worms are much more efficient. The flyrod’s only a deke.

I’m afraid I’m going to need a Tim-English dictionary for this one.  A deke???      - Ken

Response:

says: Poor people from rural counties in California definitely fish and hunt for food, what are you suggesting that hunting and fishing be restricted to the poor by some sort of means test?

No, hunting and fishing should be available to all.  Everybody should eat good healthy food too. When backpacking I rely on trout for protein and also eat mushrooms and morels, berries and wild salad greens… perhaps it does – but I take it you are not going to the Thompson to catch your Thanksgiving Steelhead?

No, the Thompson is a religious pilgrimage.  Nutrition for the soul.  I started walking last month and should arrive friday.  My shoes are holy and my feet are blistered, and yearning for those greased bowling balls that feel just like clover through the soles of studded brogues. If I happen to catch a small trout I might eat it for lunch, regulations permitting, but most of the trout there are way too big for my pan, I can never find tortillas, the olive oil doesn’t pour, and I feel it important to patronize Emma and Burl’s in case of Y2K or nuclear blowoffs. The only way I can afford it is to camp for most of my stay and luckily that is the warm desert part of Canada, eh? I have no cheaper good chance at steelhead like that. I did not say you couldn’t – I said the subsistence argument – the argument that justifies fishing only for essential nutrition is hollow  and so out of whack with modern society it is an insult to our intelligence. As it is the basis for the whole ethical/unethical question that amkes this c&r vs c&k argument go round the whole thing is as baseless as a house of cards.

100 % agreement here.   I didn’t mean to support one side or the other, just that I eat fish. Ethics are personal, and mine are definitely out of whack with modern society.  To me, beauty and nature and leisure are more important than money. See you at the Log Cabin, friday through tuesday.   I’ll buy you a high-test or a Kokanee! Mark Vinsel

Response:

Speaking of catch and release — have you seen "Ketchup and Release" at http://www.getfishy.com/store/tshirts.html ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve come to realize that Particle Salad, Tim W and Jon Cook are right. Catch and release is never necessary as a Management Tool. Yes you can achieve much the same thing by finding ways to restrict harvest. It may cost more. It may be far more difficult to manage. It may wildly restrict access to the rich or the exceptionally lucky, but it can be done. However Catch and Kill is never necessary either. You can always achieve lower overall mortality by applying the same restricted access rules to c&r or simply close the river. Harvest angling is not about subsistence. That’s a ridiculous oxymoron.  It’s obvious no one on this ng needs to fish for essential nutrition exactly equivalent to fish they may catch. To suggest otherwise is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Don’t confuse this argument with the TU  " Safeway" argument. I’m not using this argument to promote c&r at the expense of harvest. I’m not saying "don’t kill that trout because you can buy an Alaskan salmon at the Supermarket". It simply points out the reality of life in the modern world. We feed ourselves from the food industry chain. Harvest angling is not a moral imperative. It is a personal choice. Just as releasing a legal fish is a personal choice. Killing fish because of concern the fish may suffer for a long period or die is a personal choice as well. There is no wide spread moral or ethical belief that says because we caught the fish we owe it death To say there is, is an artificial construct. Regulations that permit harvest, restrict it to slots or ban it outright in favour of c&r are management choices carried out in a political framework. In light of this I say it makes more sense to talk of alternatives than moral or ethical absolutes. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

If you are fishing for subsistence, you wouldn’t be using a fly rod. A line, hook, and worms are much more efficient.     – Ken

If you cannot outfish your local worm angler you need more practice.  You should catch more by stalking and moving than those who sit and wait for fish to come to them.  Worms catch the fresh planters and little ones but most of the big ones want something natural, like a #2 wooly bugger. Fly fishing with homemade flies is cheaper than worm fishing.  You can catch fifty or a hundred trout on one fly that costs ten cents to make. … and remember – worms appear to feel pain when you impale them on a hook. Mark Vinsel

Response:

I’ve come to realize that Particle Salad, Tim W and Jon Cook are right. Catch and release is never necessary as a Management Tool. Yes you can achieve much the same thing by finding ways to restrict harvest. It may cost more. It may be far more difficult to manage. It may wildly restrict access to the rich or the exceptionally lucky, but it can be done. However Catch and Kill is never necessary either. You can always achieve lower overall mortality by applying the same restricted access rules to c&r or simply close the river. Harvest angling is not about subsistence. That’s a ridiculous oxymoron.  It’s obvious no one on this ng needs to fish for essential nutrition exactly equivalent to fish they may catch. To suggest otherwise is an insult to everyone’s intelligence. Don’t confuse this argument with the TU  " Safeway" argument. I’m not using this argument to promote c&r at the expense of harvest. I’m not saying "don’t kill that trout because you can buy an Alaskan salmon at the Supermarket". It simply points out the reality of life in the modern world. We feed ourselves from the food industry chain. Harvest angling is not a moral imperative. It is a personal choice. Just as releasing a legal fish is a personal choice. Killing fish because of concern the fish may suffer for a long period or die is a personal choice as well. There is no wide spread moral or ethical belief that says because we caught   the fish we owe it death To say there is, is an artificial construct.   Regulations that permit harvest, restrict it to slots or ban it outright in favour of c&r are management choices carried out in a political framework. In light of this I say it makes more sense to talk of alternatives than moral or ethical absolutes. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Regulations that permit harvest, restrict it to slots or ban it outright in favour of c&r are management choices carried out in a political framework. In light of this I say it makes more sense to talk of alternatives than moral or ethical absolutes.

I will agree if others agree.  I think this would be FAR more productive than arguing with one extremist. Later,      - Ken

Response:

[deleted] than arguing with one extremist.

Who (most likely) represents approximately 750,000 licensed non-flyfishing non-C&R anglers in the finest state (Colorado) alone. Contrast that with 35,000 TU members NATIONWIDE. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

This whole catch and release topic fascinates me in several ways.  I view myself as a conservationalists but am also likely to keep a fish to eat or put in the smoker once and awhile.  I have lived in Eastern Washington State all my life so have been fortunate to not have to fight people for a fishing spot and never have had a problem finding fish so I guess I am unaware of what it is like to try and fly fish on the East Coast for example. Washington does some interesting things to ease pressure from a enforcement standpoint and I am curious if other states are doing the same thing or not. In just about every county you will find lakes and streams that have single, barbless hooks and restricted catch limits of one or two fish.  In essence, the Fish and Game Dept. has made sure there are waters that offer quality fishing and lots of water that offers quanity.  What I have found is that the people who are more concerned about putting meat in their freezer won’t fish the restricted waters because they view it as a waste of time to only be able to keep one fish (never mind that one fish tends to weigh more then 5 fish out of the catch and kill lakes but we keep that as our little secret).  In turn, most of the fisherman that fish the restricted water tend to practice catch and release so you end up with high quality waters without getting your rear flamed for attempting to make  a piece of water fly fishing only or catch and release only.  This has worked out much better for our states fishing then the fly fishing only waters since the amount of quality waters has really increased in the last ten years. Mike Spokane, WA

Response:

[deleted] than arguing with one extremist. Who (most likely) represents approximately 750,000 licensed non-flyfishing non-C&R anglers in the finest state (Colorado) alone.

Tim how do you know you represent their views? Have you done some research have you polled them? Talked to them all individually? Show that you have and I will never post on this subject again either. Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Harvest angling is not about subsistence. That’s a ridiculous oxymoron. It’s obvious no one on this ng needs to fish for essential nutrition exactly equivalent to fish they may catch. To suggest otherwise is an insult to everyone’s intelligence.

Poor people from rural counties in California definitely fish and hunt for food, and you are right that these folks aren’t here on the internet, but that does not mean that they don’t exist or aren’t relevant to this discussion.  Sure they could get by without wild foods in these areas where there are no jobs. Many of them do so by growing pot or manufacturing speed while others come to the major cities for homeless food kitchens. When backpacking I rely on trout for protein and also eat mushrooms and morels, berries and wild salad greens.  I live outdoors 50% of the time and the one trout per week that I eat on average definitely makes a difference in my budget.   I met Russell Chatham once and asked his most important advice regarding painting; he said "cut your expenses" (I was homeless, living in my truck at the time).  Every penny I do not spend buys time to paint.  Time and money are limited while trout are renewable in the good places. Mark Vinsel www.vinsel.com

Response:

Question:

I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone? Thanks for your help, Mike

Response:

I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for

                                                        ^^^^^^ I’d suggest the Pacific, just for ease of access. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University        Dept. of History                 "Nothing interesting occurred today…"         -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

Response:

writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?

    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

I show that the number is 503-642-4570 for Glenn Young. Don Chen Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers (Corvallis, Oregon)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?     In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

You can contact Glenn at (503) 642-4570.  I’ve fished with Glenn a number of times and he is top notch and his rates are very reasonable. Be SURE to try the searun cutthroat–best fly rod fish in the state!! Paul

Response:

That’s a pretty good time of year to try sight fishing to steelhead in the "skinny water" high up on any of the coastal rivers.   Greg in Albany – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m planning a trip to the Portland, Oregon area the first week of October.  Can anybody provide advice on rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. for fishing, including spin and bait fishing for sturgeon, walleyes, steelhead, etc.  I will also need a guide for one day.  Can anyone personally recommend someone?    In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

Response:

   In that time slot, I’d try the Upper Clackamas for late summer steelhead and/or the Wilson for searun cutthroats, both pretty close to town.  Glenn Young of Beaverton OR is a very good guide for ffing in the Tillamook Bay area, but I can’t find his phone number –perhaps another ROFFer can supply it. –Roger, Portland

Glenn Young’s number: Hackle and Hide Glenn Young  (503)642-4570

Response:

Question:

A brief followup to my previous Paint Branch query: A friend and I fished there today (in the snow!) downstream of Briggs Cheney Road, upstream of Fairland Road. It looked like good trout habitat, relatively clear water, good riffles and drops, nice pools, good forest buffer for a hundred yards or more on either side… …but no fish in sight.  (The only sign of life was one little sculpin wriggling across the bottom.)  Are the trout extinct there, or just hibernating still? Scott in DC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A brief followup to my previous Paint Branch query: A friend and I fished there today (in the snow!) downstream of Briggs Cheney Road, upstream of Fairland Road. It looked like good trout habitat, relatively clear water, good riffles and drops, nice pools, good forest buffer for a hundred yards or more on either side… …but no fish in sight.  (The only sign of life was one little sculpin wriggling across the bottom.)  Are the trout extinct there, or just hibernating still? Scott in DC

Scott, Although I never tried fishing Paint Branch, I scouted it once during the early Summer with a pair of polarized glasses and observed two or three small trout.  By the way, there’s lots of great flyfishing for Smallmouth available in your local area. Regards, Eric Higgins

Response:

Question:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

We couldn’t agree more! Sincerely, Noranda Mining Company Canada "Coming Soon to a Wilderness Area Near You!"

Response:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

Response:

Pc idiocy? what pc idiocy? edwin

Response:

Question:

I’m new to this sport and love it!  Wonder where I can go for some good fishing that is in close proximity to home (Bryan, Texas)?  I’d like to be able to get there pretty quick and still spend a couple  hours after work fishing.  Any advice?   Also, I’m going to be down near Corpus Christi in July, any suggestions there?   Thanks in advance for the advice! Mark Klemm

Response:

I’m new to this sport and love it!  Wonder where I can go for some good fishing that is in close proximity to home (Bryan, Texas)?  I’d like to be able to get there pretty quick and still spend a couple  hours after work fishing.  Any advice?   Also, I’m going to be down near Corpus Christi in July, any suggestions there?   Thanks in advance for the advice! Mark Klemm

Mark, almost any place that has fish, you can fly fish.  Don’t think that it is restricted to trout.  If you want to fish for trout however, try the Guadalupe where it comes out of Canyon(?) Dam.  That area is stocked, and is currently getting good press about the success of the program. Also, you can fly fish the same Guadalupe for bass. Small streamers are best, however even large wooly buggers and mariboo steamers will work…..   Dee Crabtree DeeCrab*ibm.net

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