Question:

Mark Rey, long time timber lobbyist is in charge of our forests, and starting  to work on weakening all logging laws: Former Timber corporation lobbyist now head of our national forests: http://www.missoulian.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2002/Jun… A natural split with Bush- many longtime  conservative EPA officials are quitting: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-000039065jun03.story Lawmakers offer bi-partisan protection for national forests: http://ens-news.com/ens/jun2002/2002-06-05-07.asp Congress recognizes the voice of the American  people, offers bill and recognizes the 2 million  public comments favoring roadless protection, concedes  60 percent of republicans favor roadless protection as well: http://www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/06/06062002/reu_47454.asp Congress, industry recognize the vast  majority of american citizens favor protecting our last wild and unroaded forests: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/73893_pot08.shtml — Sent by sonvolt55  from  hotmail subpart from com This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header. Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/new

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Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.

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Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.

It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species…

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Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot. It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species…

Careful Tripper; a glance at your medical records suggests YOU are on the list.     Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Garbage deleted I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot. It doesn’t count unless it lands on an endangered species… Careful Tripper; a glance at your medical records suggests YOU are on the list.     Wolfgang

No doubt I’d be fatally injured before I even got in range of mr. bob’s felling… /daytripper (the hits just keep on coming

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"\ I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.\

I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees. He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

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"\ I think I will go cut down some trees tomorrow in honor of this crossposting tree hugging idiot.\ I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees.

If it was nothing like responsible land management, why did you do it? He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.

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I cut some trees down  today. Nothing like some responsible land management.  By the way, Muskie does hunt, fish and cut down trees. He isn’t the granola hippie  some would think. More like a sportsman with brains.

SPLORK! The musk thang is an obnoxious jerk who gets his kicks out of baiting anyone who might disagree with him with his outrageous headers. He is totally opposed to any requests to limit or curtail his off topic behavoir. He regularly morphs his nick to get around the filters of those who attempt to ignore him, and he hides behind free posting services and conceals his email because his behavior violates most ISP’s terms. He has lost a couple of accounts in the past due to the volume of complaints regarding his behavior. I could care less if he’s a hunter, a fisherman or a cross dressing dwarf, he’s still an annoying insect. If he had brains, he’d be more considerate of those who don’t want to see his posts instead of using periodic nick morphing to get around our filters. Flyfish

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai. He has a gorgeous blonde girlfriend(ive never seen so many stares in my direction thanks to walking with her on several occasions), a nice ride and an even nicer selection of fly rods. Perhaps you are jealous of that? He is a positive, hopeful person  and people seem to gravitate to him. He, like I also have the glorious choices of fishing in a still unspoiled setting, which is something you don’t have Mike. Perhaps if someone in Europe had spoken up and made noise a long time ago the fishing and habitat wouldnt be so poor now, and the choices so few.

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Musty Ass has spoken.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

Yes. Tuesday, February 5th. The whiskey and fishing parts were easy enough, but it is damn hard to get her out of her drawers in sub-freezing weather. Steve

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but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that. Mu

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Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout?

You know, I didn’t think of it. I really should have. Mea maxima culpa. Steve

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That’s not what you meant by making love, was it? <g  I’d better ask Warren about this; he knows about animal husbandry and stuff like that.

I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu. I mean you explanation of "tired of stockers and want some fockers" was funny and all, but . . . . <g — Warren For Henry’s Fork Clave and Bozeman fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Reverse email to reply

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I just can’t understand why you keep trying to impregnate fish Mu.

Call me Uncle Milty. Mu

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<Snip As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

I fish mainly from the Pennsylvania line down but sometimes as far up as the Ticking Tomb (the historic graveyard on Good Hope Road). Make sure you have both DE and PA licenses because the rangers like to hide about a hundred feet on either side of the unmarked border and they love writing tickets. In the sections where the trails are far away from the river, it feels rather remote. Most of it is pretty exposed, though. Somebody or other got it in their head that the park was under-utilized and needed better access. They graded paths, installed bridges and built parking lots. This is nice for the community, but bad for people who go for solitary fishing. Also, if you hook your hat or fall in, there are usually a couple of passers-by to derive great merriment. Come summer, the smallies and sunnies will come out and compete with the trout and the fishing never slows down. I go through a dozen or so crickets and hoppers in a month of fishing, most of them worn out from greedy sunfish and smallies. It isn’t a famous river, or a good one. I would never eat a fish out of it and I don’t like to swim or wade wet in it but it is my river. One day, maybe this summer, I’ll head out to Oregon and go after some Cascades salmon or to the Poconos for some wild brookies, but for now, the White Clay is the most beautiful river I’ve ever laid a fly on.

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"On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships." Was this all on the same day??? <GRIN MikeS

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<SNIP Excellent, most enjoyable. TL MC

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Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. …..

A very pleasing read.  Thanks. JR

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When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it.

Enjoyed it, Thanks. — Roger Ohlund "Home" is River Byske, Northern Sweden

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The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it.

Well told.   Thanks.   Oddly enough, I’m only about 45 minutes from WCC myself, but I’ve never fished it.   A friend of a friend of mine is involved in the stocking, and he and his buddies (which to my dismay include my friend) make an excursion each spring, armed with garden hackle, and unceremoniusly catch their limit in the illusion of sport.   Maybe that gave me a negative attitude toward the river, that your post has washed clean. Maybe I’ll give it a look after all. As I understand it, WCC is both in DE and PA.   What part do you fish? Joe F.

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<snip Nice. I can see it clearly. Tim

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The White Clay Creek is my home river.

        (snip)         very well done, stephen.  thanks your friend in the old north state wayno

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The White Clay Creek is my home river.

Thanks for the post. Be it ever so humble there’s no place like a Home River. There’s nothing that can teach you about fishing like having a river close enough that you can learn its many moods. Did you ask the Ranger about the dying trout? Willi

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Pardon me. I’ve had one too may glasses of the Royal Lochnagar and I don’t think my spell checker is functioning properly. The White Clay Creek is my home river. In the past fifteen years, I’ve never lived more than twenty minutes from it. In some respects, I hold it cheap in that I can come back the next day. Realistically, any time I don’t *have* to be somewhere else, I can be at this river. No matter how often I can or do visit, it is still my river. On its banks, I’ve tasted my first whiskey, caught my first trout on a fly, read great books, made love and created new friendships. This river I hold as my personal domain and a portion of myself. But when I try to look at it objectively, I realize it is a pretty shitty river for my affections. The fish are put-and-take. The anglers are Busch-drinking worm-drowning Winston-smoking NASCAR fans (these things are not intrinsically bad, but what they do to Dover Downs, they do to my river). The road is next to a college town and full of mountain bikers, joggers and ROTC (they aren’t intrinsically bad, just loud and scary to the trout). When I’m suited up and on the water, I forget these things. I get tunnel vision and focus on the river. The sensations of it overwhelm me and I lose myself fishing in it. Last Sunday I went to my river and fished it. I knew trouble was in the works: Minivans pulled into the parking lot, filled with rock-throwing children and water-loving dogs, but I have a blind spot where my river is concerned, and I believed that it would give to me as it has in the past. I walked down and looked at the spot I had in mind. The flow was extremely slow, the pool was deep and the rocks were plentiful. Prime winter habitat, I believed. After a few seconds, I noticed the smell. It was a fishy smell, but not a pleasant one. I stopped tying on a nymph and looked at the shallows around me and found the problem. Three twelve-inch rainbows, contorted in the rictus of death lying in the rocks. Whether or not they had anything to do with this pool, I don’t know. I took it as a sign to move on. Of course, as I worked my way further up stream, I had to talk to several small children (which I don’t mind as long as they go away soon), their parents (who are just as foolish without the excuse), dog owners and their wet dogs, the University of Delaware ROTC (a one-sided conversation consisting of cadence) and the ranger (who needed a good look at my license and had to tell me about the October stocking and the season closing a month from now). That morning, I didn’t go to the river for conversation. I reached the next pool, and found that it was too low. So was the next, and the one after that. So low, the normally submerged rocks stuck out. I though about examining them for my lost flies, but that almost feels like grave robbing. Those flies, tied carefully or bought dearly, are part of the price exacted by my river. They are no longer mine (the trees are another matter). The final pool I came to was a huge bend in an otherwise small river, with two unused bridge caissons in the middle. Biologically, these caissons are interesting. They are hotbeds of Canada goose ethology. As I watched, three pairs of geese did their equivalent of dancing and brawling. Who am I to tell them they are acting indecently and scaring my trout? At the bottom end of the bend pool, I cast a hare’s ear. This was the first fly I ever tied. It was rather ugly, but then who’s first wasn’t? I figured that since this was my last pool, losing an ugly fly really didn’t mean much. When the tight loop flies out, watching it with my peripheral is a sublime pleasure. It is a personal triumph, a testament to my own ability and resource. No other person can claim responsibility for that particular beautiful thing. I suppose it is akin to taking joy in some structure I designed or words I joined in a certain way, but this is unique in that nobody taught me or polished me. That loop is mine and mine alone. I drifted through the tail of the pool once and again. On the third, I felt the connection. Fish on. I landed a sprightly rainbow, almost devoid of color on its silver sides. It wasn’t a big fish, even for my river, but it was a work of art like every trout plucked from a river is. After I sent the trout back, I could smell the smell a trout leaves on your hands, one entirely different from the smell of any other fish I’ve ever handled. It smelled like some sort of herb. I leaned against an abutment from a long-gone bridge and lit a cigarette and thanked my river, once again, for a trout. — Stephen L. Cain

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Question:

I have a photo of what you can expect to see in Yellowstone in August: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/album/sp_miscellaneous/madiso… There must have been 100 people alongside the road watching these morons (and I don’t mean the elk). When you drive through the Park make sure to stop and get out of your car at every traffic jam. There’ll probably be some cool wildlife. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Cool picture, but not especially frightful. I fish in RMNP at least 20 days each season and I obliviously get that close to elk several times each year. The national park elk herds tend to be pretty docile; I don’t recall the last time I heard of anyone around here being hurt by one. Bull moose, on the other hand, scare the shit out of me. "rw" wrote I have a photo of what you can expect to see in Yellowstone in August:

http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/album/sp_miscellaneous/madiso… adison_elk.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There must have been 100 people alongside the road watching these morons (and I don’t mean the elk). When you drive through the Park make sure to stop and get out of your car at every traffic jam. There’ll probably be some cool wildlife.

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Cool picture, but not especially frightful. I fish in RMNP at least 20 days each season and I obliviously get that close to elk several times each year. The national park elk herds tend to be pretty docile; I don’t recall the last time I heard of anyone around here being hurt by one. Bull moose, on the other hand, scare the shit out of me.

That bull had a harem of about 15 cows behind him, out of the picture. I’d have been out of the water pronto. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Charlie & Willi were making noises about a Colorado ‘Clave and that would be great, but I was thinking a ‘Clave in Yellowstone National Park might be worth considering. If we stayed up in Mammoth Hot Springs we’d be within easy driving distance of Soda Butte, Lamar, Slough Creek and literally miles and miles of decent trout water. I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ?

Count me in.  Awfully touristy, but the company would more than make up for that.  I have been looking forward to especially seeing you again Ken — Warren Findley

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I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ?

Are the dates flexible at all, if so yes. I can’t go anywhere from the 4th to the 11th of any month. Not that I would expect anyone to change the dates just for me, but since it was early I’d thought I’d ask. The following week would be my birthday and there is no way my wife could say no <g — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas

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Good point.  The Labor Day cut-off is not as sharp as it used to be years ago.  Just too many people have taken up fly-fishing and more people have more flexibility in their work/vacation schedules.  It’s not until October or so until the streams are truly people-free.  Still, I don’t think the post-labor day crowds rival at all the August circus.  It would be helpful to have up-to-date info (based on this past year’s experience) on which areas/campgrounds are likely to be least crowded. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Two years ago we packed into Slough Creek, campground 8.  Before we went in we had some time to spend driving around Yellowstone and fishing a few creeks.  Some places were crowded, some weren’t.  One of the nicest fish I caught was in Soda Butte creek.  It was a short walk and no other people.   After Labor Day, my wife and I drove through the park both going and coming from a visit to friends in Stephensville, MT.  The streams were packed!  I visited Bud Lilly’s fly shop and the first thing the guy behind the counter said to me is, "If you’re here to book a guide, we’re full up for the next several weeks."  I guess everyone had the idea to wait until the kids were back in school.   In spite of this—have a clave and I’ll try to make it.  I like those short drives.  It’s only about 5 hours from home:)

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Are the dates flexible at all, …

Well, yes and no. September is completely out of the question for us, Kristine has work commitments. I mentioned the first full week in August because traditionally the Yellowstone Institute has a full slate of interesting classes for the non-fishing folks like Kristine to attend. The Summer 2001 Course Catalog is due out any day now, will post a pointer when it appears. Big Dale, I couldn’t find the 2001 dates for the Livingston FFF Conclave on their website, you’re right it would be nice to gather either just before or just after. Do you know those dates ? — Ken Fortenberry

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Conclave on their website, you’re right it would be nice to gather either just before or just after. Do you know those dates ? –

The dates for the FFF conclave are Aug.6-11, but most often I attend only wed afternoon thru saturday, so if the clave is that week I could still make most of the clave. I sure as hell don’t want to miss fishing in the Yellowstone area with you guys a second year in a row. Besides, I need a fix of shopping in Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone. Let me know who to contact for cabin reservations in the park as I would rather plan this sooner than later knowing how the park fills up. Big Dale

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[snipped] I did have the opportunity to camp out in Yellowstone for 10 days in September once, though, and it was one of the most memorable trips of my life.  The elk are in full rut, and are right in the campgrounds.  Makes it a little hard to sleep when a monster bull is bugling right outside the tent, but it is very exciting.  You owe it to yourself to go there in the fall sometime if you haven’t yet.

Been there, done that, had to scramble into a tight bundle of lodge poles to avoid being skewered. /daytripper (That was one ornery bull elk…)

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I think you misspelled "horny".  :-) Frank (ain’t gonna mount me) Church [snipped] Been there, done that, had to scramble into a tight bundle of lodge poles to avoid being skewered. /daytripper (That was one ornery bull elk…)

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Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing to whet the appetite for a ‘Clave like a rousing success of a ‘Clave and Bruce’s San Juan ‘Clave was certainly that. I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ? Ken please count me in on this Clave….it will be my first and I can kill two birds with one stone!  Attend my first Clave and get the wife to Yellowstone.

Did anyone else notice the red flag?

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like those short drives.  It’s only about 5 hours from home:)

It is a lot longer drive from Dallas, but I would be willing. It would be nice if the clave was either the week before or the week after the FFFconclave in Livingston. My greatest regret of 2000 is not being able to make the Montana clave.. Big Dale

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I’d opt for the last week in August, if it be August at all. Hoppers, cooler temperatures, and hopefully less crowded. I vote for a Western first part of Sept. after the kiddies have gone back to school.

Well, sure, that’s great, if you don’t have to be there at school to teach the kiddies! I would be seriously hot to go to a Yellowstone Clave in August, although the third or fourth week of August would be best for me, as I plan to be in British Columbia for the first half of Aug (see my other post), and would likely be driving back through Montana about that time. I did have the opportunity to camp out in Yellowstone for 10 days in September once, though, and it was one of the most memorable trips of my life.  The elk are in full rut, and are right in the campgrounds.  Makes it a little hard to sleep when a monster bull is bugling right outside the tent, but it is very exciting.  You owe it to yourself to go there in the fall sometime if you haven’t yet. Kevin

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Any interest ?

Count me in. KR

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Nothing to whet the appetite for a ‘Clave like a rousing success of a ‘Clave and Bruce’s San Juan ‘Clave was certainly that.

<Snip I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ?

Ken please count me in on this Clave….it will be my first and I can kill two birds with one stone!  Attend my first Clave and get the wife to Yellowstone. Ed "Luckyboy" Bleck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Ken Fortenberry

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With all these claves coming up in the next year it might be a good idea to put an agenda somewhere on the web in order to keep track of what’s happening where, when, who to contact and how to get there. Maybe a good reason to revive www.roff.org? Herman

So far there’s talk (and more) about September in Maine, May in PA, and I think Michigan in March/April. – but I could be wrong.  A list with dates on a site would be a good idea. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Based on several years’ experience (although I haven’t been there since 95), it will be much more pleasant after Labor Day.  There will still be a good number of other folks fishing, but it won’t be the madhouse August is.  Fishing is great throughout September. JR I’d opt for the last week in August, if it be August at all. Hoppers, cooler temperatures, and hopefully less crowded. I vote for a Western first part of Sept. after the kiddies have gone back to school.

  Two years ago we packed into Slough Creek, campground 8.  Before we went in we had some time to spend driving around Yellowstone and fishing a few creeks.  Some places were crowded, some weren’t.  One of the nicest fish I caught was in Soda Butte creek.  It was a short walk and no other people.   After Labor Day, my wife and I drove through the park both going and coming from a visit to friends in Stephensville, MT.  The streams were packed!  I visited Bud Lilly’s fly shop and the first thing the guy behind the counter said to me is, "If you’re here to book a guide, we’re full up for the next several weeks."  I guess everyone had the idea to wait until the kids were back in school.   In spite of this—have a clave and I’ll try to make it.  I like those short drives.  It’s only about 5 hours from home:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Any interest ?

Me. Joel Axelrad

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I’d opt for the last week in August, if it be August at all. Hoppers, cooler temperatures, and hopefully less crowded.

I vote for a Western first part of Sept. after the kiddies have gone back to school. Willi

Response:

I agree.  Based on several years’ experience (although I haven’t been there since 95), it will be much more pleasant after Labor Day.  There will still be a good number of other folks fishing, but it won’t be the madhouse August is.  Fishing is great throughout September. JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d opt for the last week in August, if it be August at all. Hoppers, cooler temperatures, and hopefully less crowded. I vote for a Western first part of Sept. after the kiddies have gone back to school.

Response:

With all these claves coming up in the next year it might be a good idea to put an agenda somewhere on the web in order to keep track of what’s happening where, when, who to contact and how to get there. Maybe a good reason to revive www.roff.org? Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing to whet the appetite for a ‘Clave like a rousing success of a ‘Clave and Bruce’s San Juan ‘Clave was certainly that. We’ve got Wolfie’s steelhead expedition in late March early April, Tom’s Spring ‘Clave on the legendary limestone creeks of Pennsylvania in May, but nothing planned yet for anything west of the Mississip’ during the summer of 2001. Charlie & Willi were making noises about a Colorado ‘Clave and that would be great, but I was thinking a ‘Clave in Yellowstone National Park might be worth considering. If we stayed up in Mammoth Hot Springs we’d be within easy driving distance of Soda Butte, Lamar, Slough Creek and literally miles and miles of decent trout water. I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ? — Ken Fortenberry

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Last week in August, first week in September – whenever the fishing is good and the crowds are lowest; count me in! Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Had to miss last year,s western clave, but I,m interested in going out in August.  Indian Joe   Wilmington N.C

Response:

Nothing to whet the appetite for a ‘Clave like a rousing success of a ‘Clave and Bruce’s San Juan ‘Clave was certainly that. We’ve got Wolfie’s steelhead expedition in late March early April, Tom’s Spring ‘Clave on the legendary limestone creeks of Pennsylvania in May, but nothing planned yet for anything west of the Mississip’ during the summer of 2001. Charlie & Willi were making noises about a Colorado ‘Clave and that would be great, but I was thinking a ‘Clave in Yellowstone National Park might be worth considering. If we stayed up in Mammoth Hot Springs we’d be within easy driving distance of Soda Butte, Lamar, Slough Creek and literally miles and miles of decent trout water. I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ? — Ken Fortenberry

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Had to miss last year,s western clave, but I,m interested in going out in August.  Indian Joe   Wilmington N.C

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing to whet the appetite for a ‘Clave like a rousing success of a ‘Clave and Bruce’s San Juan ‘Clave was certainly that. We’ve got Wolfie’s steelhead expedition in late March early April, Tom’s Spring ‘Clave on the legendary limestone creeks of Pennsylvania in May, but nothing planned yet for anything west of the Mississip’ during the summer of 2001. Charlie & Willi were making noises about a Colorado ‘Clave and that would be great, but I was thinking a ‘Clave in Yellowstone National Park might be worth considering. If we stayed up in Mammoth Hot Springs we’d be within easy driving distance of Soda Butte, Lamar, Slough Creek and literally miles and miles of decent trout water. I’m thinking the first full week of August, Sunday the 5th to Saturday the 11th. We’d have to get going pretty quickly on reservations, the Park fills up early. Any interest ?

I’d opt for the last week in August, if it be August at all. Hoppers, cooler temperatures, and hopefully less crowded. I include the Madison, Henry’s Lake, the Gallatin, etc, in "Yellowstone". Going all that way might as well hit the biggies… /daytripper (Gonna think about it)

Response:

Question:

Hello, PLEASE help us! Your newsgroup is jamming our computer. We don’t know how this happened. We don’t fly fish and we don’t want all these e-mails on fishing. PLEASE remove our name as soon as possible. Perhaps, some sort of virus hooked us up together. Thank you very much. David Singer

Response:

Duh!  now its my fault that you bought the computer?  Maybe you should get the kid down the street to help you.  Ever hear of a help screen? all the info you need is right there.  If that doesn’t work you may want to call your web support people at RoadRunner. If that will not solve the problem you will need to reformat your C drive you will find out how to do that in your instruction manual. until then, may I suggest WebTV? — Mike..   A true fisherman approaches the first day of fishing much as a child approaches Christmas, with the eager   anticipation, sleepless nights, making of lists, and the anticipating of pleasure.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, PLEASE help us! Your newsgroup is jamming our computer. We don’t know how this happened. We don’t fly fish and we don’t want all these e-mails on fishing. PLEASE remove our name as soon as possible. Perhaps, some sort of virus hooked us up together. Thank you very much. David Singer

Response:

Question:

Maurice writes: <Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring

flyfishing in Washington state? Maurice, there is a book out called something like "Flyfishing Washingtons Lakes" and is in most fly shops.  The book is well written and appears to be a source of accurate information.  It covers both West side and East side lakes. I don’t seem to recall any information about rivers but I am sure many of the West side anglers can give you a rundown here in this newsgroup. If you need information regarding East side lakes such as Lenice, Lenore, Dry Falls, Potholes, Amber etc or information on the North Central Lakes such as Chopaka or Blue, let me know and I will email you some information. Mike Wilson Spokane, WA

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Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

Since flyfish4770 has the eastside covered, I can offer advice and places on the west side (west of seattle, olympic peninsula).  Lots of good lakes and some good rivers in the area.  There’s a couple of books that describe most of the body of waters in Washington.  They aren’t neccessarily flyfish specific, but they’ll give you an idea of whats available and how to access them.   Unfortunately all my guide books are in my car and I can’t recall the names… matthew           Matthew W Kaphan    http://home.sprintmail.com/~mwk            Silverdale, WA

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Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

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I just moved out not too long ago.  I picked up Washington Fishing from www.amazon.com.  It covers more than 1000 spots on streams, rivers, lakes, and the coast.  It covers fishing in general (not just fly fishing), but was a good place to start.  I also got a lot of help from people on this newsgroup on places to go. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone know of a good book or guide service to begin exploring flyfishing in Washington state?

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Question:

Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

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Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

Like you say, this is the road not taken, and you hope to beat a path, so why are you asking for fly patterns?  Why not take some big feathers and fur and tie them on some big hooks and cast them with a big rod and give big twitches like a big dead minnow down deep near a big weedbed where big muskies live.  If you don’t catch anything then you will be learning what doesn’t work, so you try other things until you start catching them. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

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What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

First I presume you are asking about Atlantic salmon books, not books relating to inferior <vbg Pacific species. As I write, Fishing Atlantic Salmon by Joe Bates and Pamela Bates Richards, is the best and most available Atlantic salmon fly fishing and fly tying book. It is published by Stackpole and goes for $75.00(US)–although I am reliably informed that a little shopping around might beat that price. Poul Jorgensen’s Salmon Flies is always recommended for fly tying and is easily available. Bates’ much earlier book, Atlantic Salmon Flies and Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

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What are the best EASILY AVAILABLE books on salmon fishing and tying salmon flies? Thanx for the help.

What kind of salmon and where?  Full dress atlantic salmon flies or pacific/alaska shiny "purty" things?

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Fishing, is a great classic and has been reissued by Stackpole. Finally, my own, Atlantic Salmon – A Fly Fishing Primer (mimimal fly-tying), can usually be found in second hand catalogs at indecently low prices. Paul Marriner

All great fishing books eventually get remaindered. Known fact. Charles Cotton had the same problem. Andrew

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For Atlantic Salmon fishing I swear by Hugh Falkus’ book "Salmon Fishing" available here through Orvis and presumably others.

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Try Fly Fishing for Pacific Salmon, Bruce Ferguson, Les Johnson, Pat Trotter, Frank Amato Publications.

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Question:

Has anyone fished for Pink Salmon in the Seattle, WA area? When do they come into the rivers?  Are they different from Chum Salmon? I’m going to be up in the Seattle, WA area in late July. Thanks for the info. -steve

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Has anyone fished for Pink Salmon in the Seattle, WA area? When do they come into the rivers?  Are they different from Chum Salmon? I’m going to be up in the Seattle, WA area in late July. Thanks for the info. -steve

I fished them extensively in 91 and 93 on the Skagit river, WA.  If anyone is interested, email me and we can talk. In short: They are vastly different to chum.  Spawning pinks are strictly 2yr old fish, and vary from about 3-5 pounds (a 6-8pound is a lunker).  Chums are various ages and are much larger.  Pinks seem to aggressively hit certain fly patterns and small spoons of pink and white color.  The prime of the chum run is usually about late Oct-late Nov.  My records show that the first pink I caught in 1993 was on 23 August.  I can’t find my book from 1991, but it was within a week of that.  The first 2 weeks in Sept are the best. Around here, Pinks run in only a few rivers.  The ones that come to mind starting north and working south (there are more but these are the major runs):         Skagit, Stilliguamish, Snohomish system, Nisqually Oh, and due to this strict 2 year cycle and some catastrophic event, there is only a run during odd-numbered years like this year.  There is also a 4 year cycle, and this is the best of that cycle.  1995 should hold many fish.  Chum run every year. Without exaggerating, a dozen fish in a mornings fishing was not at all uncommon.  My numbers from the "down" year of 1993 show large numbers of fish. I’ll stop now before I start (continue?) babbling. talk to you later,         -tgades

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Pinks are also known as humpys, the previous post cover most other   points. Chums turn dark early and pinks have a slimey feel.

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Pinks are also known as humpys (sp) I ahve found that almost anything   that works for silvers also works for pinks but that they run deeper on   average.  Chum turn dark early and do not bite as well out side of fresh   water concentrations.  Pinks tend to be oilyer and slimy but taste great   if processed soon after landing.

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Question:

: dblehaul asks, "what kind of fly line for fishing nymphs on the : bottom… : Use your floating line and a weighted nymp.   Add split shot if you need : it until you can feel it ticking on the bottom, or hang on the bottom : periodically.  Much better control than a sink tip in moving water for : nymphing. Ditto. This set-up has worked great here in Colorado.

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what type of line do you think would be best for fishing nymphs on the bottom (of a stream that is)..i was thinking about a fast sink tip where the first 15 feet sink..i won’t be fishing EXTREMELY deep water…any suggestions? Frankie

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dblehaul asks, "what kind of fly line for fishing nymphs on the

bottom… Use your floating line and a weighted nymp.   Add split shot if you need it until you can feel it ticking on the bottom, or hang on the bottom periodically.  Much better control than a sink tip in moving water for nymphing.

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You may want to take a look at a Teeny Nymph line.  Fantastic! Robert < Robert  <

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I agree wholeheartedly

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: what type of line do you think would be best for fishing nymphs on the : bottom (of a stream that is)..i was thinking about a fast sink tip where : the first 15 feet sink..i won’t be fishing EXTREMELY deep water…any : suggestions? : Frankie         I haven’t tried every line on the market, but I had a lot of success using the Teeny Lines. For your particular case I can mention two line types:                 – T series (T130-7200) for 5-8 Wt Lines. They have a long sinking Tip (maybe some 25 feet) and they sink extremely fast.                 – Mini Tip. This line uses a 5 feet sinking section allowing a good nymph fishing.         If the stream your are going after isn’t more than feet deep I suggest you use the Mini-Tip. Otherwise, I would highly recommend one of the T-Series Lines (for your situation I think the T-130 is better).         I just looked on my Dan Bailey’s Catalog and saw:                         T-130 : $49.95                         Mini-Tip : $47.95                                                 ( 209 West Park St.                                                   PO BOX 1019                                                   Livingston, Montana                                                   59047-1019  ) THANKS GOD FOR FLY FISHING!!!!                                         RODRIGO SANDOVAL

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Question:

Can you please expand on the light colored clothing/lyme disease comment.  Does it help you spot ticks and pick them off before they bite?

As a kid in Maryland, I was told ticks prefer darker colors.  I suppose the camaflouge theory kicks in. Thomas Gilg

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Black Flies??? They are attracted to bright/dark colors and anything that has scent. Some people get more bit than others. Taking vitamin B suppose  to help reduce the # of bites. Clothes should be washed with non-scented soap. Besides Deet, you can put baby oil on you skin which drowns the flies (good for suntanning). By July, they are pretty much gone. Oh ya, make sure you socks go over you pants. Put Deek around the shirt near your belt. they love to crawl in!!! I use to work in the Wawa area for 3 summers. The 3rd summer I got bit maybe 4/5 times for working 7 weeks in the bush plating trees compared to 30/40 the first summer. And the bites healed much quicker the 3rd summer (some sort of ammune system). I’ve seen indians walk aorund with no protection and not get bit. We’re talking about 10,000 black files swarming aroung your head while you work. I use to spray Deet on my hard hat and it would kill 1,000 flies a day. When people complain about a few black flies, I say it is nothing…

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| |  DW 3.  Use insect repellant.  DEET is still the best, although questions |  DW about its safety for long term exposure have been raised.  I suggest a |  DW spray or pump format for two reasons.  First, you can spray clothing |  DW around where they are going to land and crawl and thus keep them off. |  DW Second, you can keep the palms of your hands relatively clean of the |  DW stuff – it will remove the paint from a pencil in a day of use and |  DW likely has a similarly disturbing effect on fine rod finishes, |  DW fly-lines, painted lures etc.  Be sure to spray INSIDE your clothing |  DW in the areas they are likely to try to enter (neck, cuffs, ankles or |  DW whatever) | |  I never use DEET based products because of what it does to lines.  I prefer The notion that DEET weakens mono fishing line has been scientificily disproved in a conclusive experiment by my daughter for a science fair experiment.  She exposed lengths of stren to a number of substances for a period of time in excess of a day and measured the breaking strength.  The substances included gasoline, outboard motor oil, DEET, bourbon, and water.  The only one that weakened the line was water.   Unfortunately the only people who looked at her exhibit were guys wearing camo and there weren’t to many of those.   |  vinegar because it works just as well and doesn’t weaken mono.  As for |  wearing light coloured clothing it is more important for the prevention of |  lyme disease, but the fact that the black flies prefer darker colours |  doesn’t hurt. | | ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 | — | | — Del Cecchi  

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| |  DW 3.  Use insect repellant.  DEET is still the best, although questions |  DW about its safety for long term exposure have been raised.  I suggest a |  DW spray or pump format for two reasons.  First, you can spray clothing |  DW around where they are going to land and crawl and thus keep them off. |  DW Second, you can keep the palms of your hands relatively clean of the |  DW stuff – it will remove the paint from a pencil in a day of use and |  DW likely has a similarly disturbing effect on fine rod finishes, |  DW fly-lines, painted lures etc.  Be sure to spray INSIDE your clothing |  DW in the areas they are likely to try to enter (neck, cuffs, ankles or |  DW whatever) | |  I never use DEET based products because of what it does to lines.  I prefer |  vinegar because it works just as well and doesn’t weaken mono.  As for |  wearing light coloured clothing it is more important for the prevention of |  lyme disease, but the fact that the black flies prefer darker colours |  doesn’t hurt. | Peter, Can you please expand on the light colored clothing/lyme disease comment.  Does it help you spot ticks and pick them off before they bite?                         -Pat.

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 DW 3.  Use insect repellant.  DEET is still the best, although questions  DW about its safety for long term exposure have been raised.  I suggest a  DW spray or pump format for two reasons.  First, you can spray clothing  DW around where they are going to land and crawl and thus keep them off.  DW Second, you can keep the palms of your hands relatively clean of the  DW stuff – it will remove the paint from a pencil in a day of use and  DW likely has a similarly disturbing effect on fine rod finishes,  DW fly-lines, painted lures etc.  Be sure to spray INSIDE your clothing  DW in the areas they are likely to try to enter (neck, cuffs, ankles or  DW whatever)  I never use DEET based products because of what it does to lines.  I prefer  vinegar because it works just as well and doesn’t weaken mono.  As for  wearing light coloured clothing it is more important for the prevention of  lyme disease, but the fact that the black flies prefer darker colours  doesn’t hurt. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 —

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– …  I was wondering if indeed the black – flies are going to be a problem? and if they are, what is the best – way to prepare for them. In my career in field geology I have had many close encounters with black flies and, while not claiming to be a total expert, can offer the following advice. Black flies attack by crawling around on your clothes until finding an entry point, or landing directly on skin then crawling around.  They tend to bite where their exploration is stopped by restrictions such as a belt, top of socks, hat brim etc.   This modus operandi should be kept in mind when designing your defences. 1.  Wear clothing with a minimum of entry points – no loose cuffs, tuck pants into socks, wear a snug T-shirt under your regular bush shirt, no stylishly ripped jeans. 2.  Keep clothing as light a colour as possible – they love dark colours, especially blue denim, and will land preferentially on those wearing darker clothes.  (This one is often not easy on longer trips if laundry facilities are not handy and the bush is dirty.) 3.  Use insect repellant.  DEET is still the best, although questions about its safety for long term exposure have been raised.  I suggest a spray or pump format for two reasons.  First, you can spray clothing around where they are going to land and crawl and thus keep them off. Second, you can keep the palms of your hands relatively clean of the stuff – it will remove the paint from a pencil in a day of use and likely has a similarly disturbing effect on fine rod finishes, fly-lines, painted lures etc.  Be sure to spray INSIDE your clothing in the areas they are likely to try to enter (neck, cuffs, ankles or whatever) 4.  Electronic repellants (ultrasonic etc) DO NOT WORK ON REAL, WILD BLACKFLIES.  If you want to try them out be sure you have DEET for emergency backup when you discover this for yourself. 5.  By July they may have thinned out a bit, but will certainly be out in force in evenings and still days.  Deer flies are more of a nuisance on hot sunny days but they do not care about repellant so don’t waste it on them.  (They are slow enough to catch and crunch by hand.) 6. Above all, remember to have fun.  No matter how bad the flies have been in my experience, when I look back to all the trips it is not the flies my mind conjures up when pulling out memories.  They are a large frustration at the time, but you will forget them (until next time) as long as you don’t get physically ill from an overdose.  This only happens to little kids who don’t put on any repellant at all and have a small body size to absorb the toxins. Have a good trip. (The worst flies I ever met were NOT in the Sault Ste Marie area at all, BTW.) Regards…Dennis Waddington —

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