Question:

I am planning a trip to the Escalante/ Otter creek reservoir area  next month. anyone know of a good shop and/or guide for Fly fishing that area. thanks , Glenn T.

Response:

Yeah, try this guy. Fished with him at Lees Ferry and he will put you on fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to the Escalante/ Otter creek reservoir area  next month. anyone know of a good shop and/or guide for Fly fishing that area. thanks , Glenn T.

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Question:

…  Dressing should NOT be of silicone based products as found in England but rather with gink,… Silk responds well to a gink dressing … Remember, try straight gink, …

Red Mucilin is the best dressing for silk lines. Green Mucilin contains silicone and the spammer is correct, silicone products should not be used on silk lines. — Ken Fortenberry- give it a rest, G.

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Red mucilin is the best dressing for silk lines, and as far as I am aware is the only dressing recommended by practically the last manufacturers of these lines.   No other dressings should be used, as they may damage the line, and these lines are now very expensive indeed.  They are the finest lines it is possible to use for small stream fishing, or for fishing areas where a stealthy approach is essential. They allow delicate presentation, cause less disturbance, and the modern ones are nowhere near as much trouble to keep in good condition as the old ones were. They will outlast any modern plastic line quite easily, and so the increased expense is perhaps not so relevant. It is immaterial whether they are used on cane or carbon fibre, or indeed fibre-glass rods. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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They are the finest lines it is possible to use for small stream fishing, or for fishing areas where a stealthy approach is essential. They allow delicate presentation, cause less disturbance, and the modern ones are nowhere near as much trouble to keep in good condition as the old ones were. They will outlast any modern plastic line quite easily, and so the increased expense is perhaps not so relevant.

This thread has kind of got me interested in learning more about silk lines and where to get them.  Any suggestions on where more info can be found? Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

George,     I couldn't agree more that silk fly lines are an excellent option. In fact, they have so many benefits that many of my friends are now switching to them. Olaf Borge was making brisk sales of Phoenix lines at the recent Rodmakers gathering in Grayling.

snip:  I have to remove the cap of the Gink tube and use forceps to get it out. Could you work on that?]

______  The albolene is like water in hot weather and the tube option leaves a lot to be desired because of losing the little cap with cold fingers, or any other number of reasons astream.  I have to think of the hundreds of thousands of possible factors that will cause customers to be unhappy regarding just the cap.  This is one of the reasons we use the cap we do.  The other is the gasket on tubes are not guaranteed to last the life of the tube.  Many lose this seal also.   Gink is very difficult to contain because it has great penetration powers on flies which is one of the reasons it’s superior.  (No spam intended, dang it Ken)  Regardless, the bottle we use is a specific choice because the seal on it is complete and is one of the few vessels that will contain gink without leakage and seals during long storage because it only takes a little to dress a fly. When you gink a silk fly line it will be better for silk fly lines than the ‘English Option’ known as the "Red Tin".  (Smiling here pal).  In fact, I know it for a fact based just on science and objective testing and usage covering a span of 30 years Reed.  The freedom of choice is yours, but you should at least give yourself a try because regardless of what silk fly line makers may think what is best for their fly lines, I assure you I know more about it then they do. In fact gink was tested to be specific for silk lines long before Phoenix was in business. I’ll leave it at that, excepting I would never tell you anything that wasn’t better in terms of your best interests.  That I happen to be the maker of gink, has nothing to do with it.  That fly fishermen now gink a fly instead of just dressing a fly is a product of satisfaction over many years of use.  That a ginked silk fly line floats and behaves better than any other products used, especially silicone Red Tinned products, is without question.  Red Tinned versions still attract dirt on silk, makes it abrasive and wears out silk before its time.  Again, the secret to any fly line, I must admit is keeping them clean and properly dressed.  If you’re satisfied with the Red Option Reed, after all this time, frankly you should continue using it.   For the high price of silk however, I’d use my stuff. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

If you look at Reed

Question:

Available variuous tinsel.  Gold, silver, copper.  Fine & medium. Flat and round.  7 to 15 yards. FLY FISHING ACCESSORIES                         BOXES of 12             ITEM    FINE    MEDIUM  WIDE Wire Copper     22               Embossed Silver         25       Flat Silver     17      18      19 Oval Silver     29      29       Wire Silver     31               Embossed Gold           24       Flat Gold       13      11      14 Oval Gold       31      24       Wire Gold       29               Mixed Types 12  different per box       27               Gd Olive 4 Strand Floss 1               Steel Grey 4 Strand Floss       1 $10.00 per box For more info call: Boris Kortiak TBS Industries 4211 Van Kirk St. Philadelphia, PA 19135 tel: +1 (215) 535-6500 8:30 AM to 3:30 PM Eastern Time Monday through Friday

Response:

Question:

I wonder how many flyfishermen can say they’re trotliners, too?

Multiple droppers could be considered an ‘active trotline presentation’. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

You know how you hear that ‘fishing is more than catching fish’? It’s usually mentioned in relation to motivations. But it just occurred to me how literally true it is. —How much more several other aspects ought to be valuated and appreciated by us all. ****100% Fishing Success: *40%*—Background knowledge of an area and fish species,equipment prep & timing of outings. This takes years to acquire and is often culturally and family related. *10%*—Getting there, setting up, trial& error, testing, timing…fishing. *1%*—Catching fish. *10%*—Cleaning, fish meat processing. *30%*—Recipes, cooking, growing ancillary produce…then eating gamefish. *10%*—Habitat maintenance & development. (Now you might say that not all anglers do all the above in this way. Well, mostly, when they don’t they’re simply paying for someone else to do it. This is the case with most meat-eating of any type of fish or game.) [Apologies for the cross-post, but rec.fish is dead. Might as well go where the action is.] PS: I’m an all-round fisherman who has fly-inclination. Flies work best for trout, salmon, steelies on the small No. Mich. streams I prefer anyway. But I’m getting to be more of a fish for the table person. Less of a traveller. More inclined to local So. Mich. catfish. Not a lot of time to fish. Want to eat. So…I’m starting to think about trotlines and juglines like I used to use as a teen. Funny how things change. I wonder how many flyfishermen can say they’re trotliners, too? — ***"Out Your Backdoor": Friendly Magazine of DIY Adventure and Culture        http://www.glpbooks.com/oyb … with new bookstore & bulletin board

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Question:

Can someone give a beginner where he can try flyfishing on the Mad River. I’ve heard good things about it but have not fished it.

Response:

Best access near the hatchery in Blue Lake. Expect crowds, so fish during the week if possible. Try Black wooly buggers, or dark streamers. Comets might also work. Large fish 7 wt. + rod recommended. For FF fish 3-4 days after rains, as river frequently muddy. If in this area, consider VAn-Duzen river also when open.

Response:

GBloomf405 Anywhere a bridge crosses is public access to the Mad.  Between West Liberty, Ohio (where the best of the fishing starts) and Urbana (where the river becomes too warm to support trout) there are probably 40+ bridges. As long as you are in the stream bed you are ok.  Outside the bed its trespassing.  That’s why the bridges are the surest access.  The Mad does not have a natural population of trout.  It is stocked twice a year by the ODNR.  Most flyfisherman catch and release.  There is very intense fishing on this river by bait and lure throwers.   Chromids, prince nymphs, streamers, crawfish and caddis are reliable. There is not one good place to go.  Buy a State Gazetteer and pick some spots.  I have never found a stretch to deep to wade.  It is sandy bottomed and the current is provided by natural springs.  That’s what makes the something more that you would like to know.  The Orvis dealer in COlumbus, Mad River Outfitters can be of help and he guides the river out of an AuSable boat.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone give a beginner where he can try flyfishing on the Mad River. I’ve heard good things about it but have not fished it.

Response:

Really Recommend calling Mad River Outfitters, in Columbus Ohio of Bethel Road.. Brian, Owner there has written up a book on Flyfishing the Mad, with Access Maps, entymology and the history of the River.  It is a wonderful read, and thouroughly a help.. This is a very tough River to catch fish on, atleast it was for me… Kevin C. Paulson

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Question:

Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Response:

Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Response:

for what? With the exception of the Yakoun the best steelhead runs are usually late in the Winter. All the coho are either dead or a lovely combination of cherry red and cream coloured fungus. Might be ok for cutts and dollies using glo-bugs or streamers in some of the lakes – but I’d check the reg’s first as I’m not sure if they are even open. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Should be good – no snow around yet Mo — British Columbia &  Western Canada Information at = http://www.cvnet.net/modrew/Index.htm ;o) delete "nospam" to e-mail me Does anybody how the fishing is there right now. Jay

Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

Question:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company? I am interested in buying a blank from them. Would appreciate any life experiences with this company. Thanks, DLowe

They are nice rods.  I have fished them, at the request of my fishing partner who sells them.  They cast very similar to a Scott, have a nice finish, etc.  Life experiences you may not find, as they haven’t been around that long (like maybe 5 or 6 years?) Tight lines, -Burton

Response:

Excellent company run by first class people who build a fine product. You won’t be disappointed in my opinion. Tom Dougherty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company? A few years ago, I bought a prototype 8 1/2′ 3/4 wgt. (prototype meaning no graphics on the rod and it wasn’t listed in their brochure) that I ran across on sale, and I think it’s wonderful.  It has a slow action, rather like my Winston 3 wgt., but it’s a bit heavier than an all-graphite rod would be (I think it’s one of their ‘lamiglass’ hybrids).  It casts both 3 & 4 wgt. lines equally well; I choose which based on wind conditions and fish spookiness.  HPH

Response:

after reading all reply’s i am happy to know that i am not the only one who has broken there diamondback rods.i have two backwater series rods and both have broken at the ferrule,the last one breaking on the first cast of the first day in the florida keys.great trip!!they did repair them very fast but not even a letter of explanation.i think my next rod is an rplx.                                                           larry morris

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I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you too

Response:

I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you too

that was beautiful man. you still aren’t getting my beer, though… TimW

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I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you tooGeez Jerry –

Isn’t 10:32 in the morning a tad early to be drinking?

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I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you too

..T-Bone..Send the Doc a homebrew!!….;)

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I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you too ..T-Bone..Send the Doc a homebrew!!….;)

Nah, he’d just use it to splash back more prozak. TimW

Response:

I love fly fishing in general it is so fun!!!! I love you too ..T-Bone..Send the Doc a homebrew!!….;)

Actually it sounds like he has had one too many already! -Burton

Response:

6/7 wt, 8-1/2 ft four-piece rods for years.  Very stiff action and will punch a line into the wind like no other rod I’ve ever used. Great for alpine lake fishing, which is why this is my backpacking rod of choice. Also great for going deep in big streams. Forget delicate presentations, however.  I also broke mine, and Diamondback fixed it very nicely. I think Diamondback used to private label a line of rods for L.L.Bean. Good luck!

Response:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company? I am interested in buying a blank from them. Would appreciate any life experiences with this company. Thanks, DLowe 21757.

Response:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any

experience with this company? I am interested in buying a blank from them. Would appreciate any life experiences with this company.<< I like the action of the rods, I have two a 9wt and a 5 wt. The five weight broke at the ferrules while casting the first time out and it took too long (IMO) to get it back but they did fix it. I will not buy another one, that is my experience. Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

Response:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company? I am interested in buying a blank from them. Would appreciate any life experiences with this company. Thanks, DLowe 21757.

      I visited the factory up in Vermont a few years ago, and at the time their set-up looked efficient and clean; they stocked a nice line of rods, blanks and rod-building supplies. I’ve not been there recently.   Louise Scharrenberg

Response:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company?

A few years ago, I bought a prototype 8 1/2′ 3/4 wgt. (prototype meaning no graphics on the rod and it wasn’t listed in their brochure) that I ran across on sale, and I think it’s wonderful.  It has a slow action, rather like my Winston 3 wgt., but it’s a bit heavier than an all-graphite rod would be (I think it’s one of their ‘lamiglass’ hybrids).  It casts both 3 & 4 wgt. lines equally well; I choose which based on wind conditions and fish spookiness.  HPH

Response:

Have seen ad and sent for brochure on Diamondback rods, anyone have any experience with this company? A few years ago, I bought a prototype 8 1/2′ 3/4 wgt. (prototype meaning no graphics on the rod and it wasn’t listed in their brochure) that I ran across on sale, and I think it’s wonderful.  It has a slow action, rather like my Winston 3 wgt., but it’s a bit heavier than an all-graphite rod would be (I think it’s one of their ‘lamiglass’ hybrids).  It casts both 3 & 4 wgt. lines equally well; I choose which based on wind conditions and fish spookiness.  HPH

I built a rod on a Diamondback 3 pc. Backwater blank last year and have fished it, oh probably 100 times more or less. The first two times out I broke the ferrule between the mid and tip section. Diamondback was real good about replacing it, and the rod designer, George, seemed genuinely interested in what the hell I was doing with their rods to do this :- I was using a 450 head (10 weight blank). The third ferrule was the charm and I’ve since had no problems at all, though I notice they’ve gone to the (IMO) much more reliable tip over butt ferrule in this year’s Saltwater rods (yay!). In terms of performance it casts very well with the rated line (#10) no need to overload it for wind or large flies. It’s less stiff than my Cabelas HML and a little more stiff than my Fisher GT40 if that helps. I can cast it all day without fatigue. Their stock rods seem very well built, I like their clown nose fighting butts, and the saltwater blank is especially nice to look at. I’d get another one, esp. with the new ferrule.                                                                 jc

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Question:

On our recent trip to the Snake River (Oregon/Idaho border), we caught several small Crappies and took the little fillets off and used them for bait.  Needless to say, we ended up with about 100 fish between 3 and 4 pounds, which are excellent eating size.  The guts of crappie also work well.  Good luck!

Response:

…. bought new Gambler, mama sez one of ‘em gotta go !!! Do like I did, let mama go.

Hmmmmmmm, Richard, I think you’ve got something there, buddy …. Let me think about this …. then I could probably keep both boats, my truck and afford a new truck also …… hmmmmmmm                        good fishing                          Jim

Response:

: …. bought new Gambler, mama sez one of ‘em gotta go !!! :   : Do like I did, let mama go. : : : Hmmmmmmm, Richard, I think you’ve got something there, buddy …. Let me : think about this …. then I could probably keep both boats, my truck and : afford a new truck also …… hmmmmmmm Yep pretty much what I did. Now I have a 17.5 foot ProCraft and a new 20 foot Ranger. And a new suburban to pull it with. Course I still have my old 87 van to drive to work. Works for me. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

Response:

Hmmmmmmm, Richard, I think you’ve got something there, buddy …. Let me think about this …. then I could probably keep both boats, my truck and afford a new truck also …… hmmmmmmm Yep pretty much what I did. Now I have a 17.5 foot ProCraft and a new 20foot Ranger. And a new suburban to pull it with. Course I still have my old 87 van to drive to work.

Exactly , I would have the 17′ tracker, 19′3" gambler, my 86 Ford F250 (200,000 miles and still going strong, FORD TUFF), then could get my new 97 F350 ….. with gun rack, new 30-30 or 30-06 or politically incorrect socalled "assault weapon" just to tick off the liberals … sounds like a plan, buddy ……                 see ya on the water  (Potomac, that is)                     Jim

Response:

: 1995 Tracker Pro 17 with 25hp merc OB … Motor guide 37lb trolling motor : fully equipped with 2 humminbird Wide Eye fishfinders (bow and console : mounted) *** Trailstar trailer *** Excellent condition   $4500.00 : located in Spotsylvania, VA  fished on freshwater lakes and Potomac river : only …. bought new Gambler, mama sez one of ‘em gotta go !!! Do like I did, let mama go. Expensive at first but now I have two bass boats. Good fishing, All About Computers      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe.

Response:

1995 Tracker Pro 17 with 25hp merc OB … Motor guide 37lb trolling motor fully equipped with 2 humminbird Wide Eye fishfinders (bow and console mounted) *** Trailstar trailer *** Excellent condition   $4500.00 located in Spotsylvania, VA  fished on freshwater lakes and Potomac river only …. bought new Gambler, mama sez one of ‘em gotta go !!!

Response:

What bait is good for channel cats in medium sized lakes? I’ve only caught one once and it was by accident, in Florida, on a fly! Thanks for any help, Dave in Spokane, WA… known on IRC as "Dubbing"

In lieu of live bait or chicken livers, I’ve specifically seen channel cats take small crappie spinners, i.e. Roadrunners.  Also, small crankbaits work as well.  Not to mention plastic worms.  Now I’m not sure about other species of cats though. — **                           ** **   David Meyers **                           **

Response:

Well, I’d just like to say something. Being from the same state, I can testify that Washington doesn’t allow live fish as bait.

That’s true here in Oklahoma, as well, at least if the fish is considered a "gamefish" species.  It doesn’t include minnows.  Also, nightcrawlers or earthworms work well for channel cats. If you can’t use live bait of any kind, that’s no problem.  Catfish love chicken livers and all sorts of prepared baits that are commercially available.  Dried beef blood also works well. Nor do they allow fishing with more than one rod.

That’s true only in some areas here.  If you can only use 1 rod, it makes it harder to try a variety of baits all at once.  You may be allowed to use multiple hooks on 1 line.  If so, this can help. You can’t even troll at different depths.

No problem here.  Although I have heard of people catching channel cats while trolling, they are not a fish one trolls for.  You find a good hole and sit on it. Stupid, I know, but that’s the way it is. Any other suggestions? I’m interested in catfish myself, and the only other type here is bullheads.

Does your state allow chumming?  That means throwing some kind of food into an area to attract the fish and stimulate feeding.  You can buy commercial catfish chum, or just buy a big bag of cheap dog food.  Throw some in an area before you start fishing.  You can also chum a spot every day at the same time for up to 2 weeks before you actually start fishing.  The cats will be there waiting for "feeding time" when you show up to catch ‘em.  Of course, this may not be legal in your state. Hope this helps.  Good luck and good fishing! Richard

Response:

Well, I’d just like to say something. Being from the same state, I can testify that Washington doesn’t allow live fish as bait. Nor do they allow fishing with more than one rod. You can’t even troll at different depths. Stupid, I know, but that’s the way it is. Any other suggestions? I’m interested in catfish myself, and the only other type here is bullheads. Arklier Firsty is the best!

Response:

What bait is good for channel cats in medium sized lakes? I’ve only caught one once and it was by accident, in Florida, on a fly! Thanks for any help, Dave in Spokane, WA… known on IRC as "Dubbing"

‘ ‘ I’ve recently just gotten into catching channel cats, there are a ton of commercial channel cat baits available, any of them will do. The "blood" baits work good also. Liver, shrimp, bacon strips(raw), will do also. I’ve read where channel cats would prefer to eat the fresher tasting meats if available. Here’s also a few "house baits" that I have seen proven to work when your pressed for time and money: Soap Cotton Balls soaked with anything stinky Marshmellows Hot Dog Chunks Lunch meats Onion Chunks – (weird eh?) Apple Chunks With cats just about anything with a scent will attract them! p.s. Don’t forget to "chum" them in with a bag of crunchy dog food!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: What bait is good for channel cats in medium sized lakes? I’ve only caught one once and it was by accident, in Florida, on a fly! Thanks for any help, Dave in Spokane, WA… known on IRC as "Dubbing" Channel cats will eat damned near anything.  I’ve caught them on minnows, worms (nightcrawlers), crawdads, chicken livers (& gizzards), and homemade stinkbait (not for the faint of heart .  I’ve seen my uncle catch them using possum grapes and mulberries, when these were ripe on the trees along the creek bank (matching the hatch .  There is also a wide variety of commercial baits available for channel cats. Which one of these will work best depends on the location and conditions. When I go catfish fishing, I try to take a variety of baits.  I use 3 rods and bait up with a little of everything.  If the fish show a preference for one type of bait, I switch to that one. I hope this helps.  Good luck and good fishing! Richard Had a catfish guide take me out on Lake Marion (Santee Cooper) S.

Carolina. They use live shad. I would think any small fish would do. They cut the tail off the fish so as to leave a blood trail as they drift. Check out the rig they use. Its a 6" section of parachute cord ( any armynavy store will have this). Fill it with split shot and seal it with a lighter. With a snap swivel and 3′ of line connect it to the bottom of a three way swivel, put your bait out on a 2′ leader. You can cover alot of ground and not a single hang up. Tight lines…..Alex

Response:

What bait is good for channel cats in medium sized lakes? I’ve only caught one once and it was by accident, in Florida, on a fly! Thanks for any help, Dave in Spokane, WA… known on IRC as "Dubbing"

Response:

What bait is good for channel cats in medium sized lakes? I’ve only caught one once and it was by accident, in Florida, on a fly! Thanks for any help, Dave in Spokane, WA… known on IRC as "Dubbing"

Channel cats will eat damned near anything.  I’ve caught them on minnows, worms (nightcrawlers), crawdads, chicken livers (& gizzards), and homemade stinkbait (not for the faint of heart .  I’ve seen my uncle catch them using possum grapes and mulberries, when these were ripe on the trees along the creek bank (matching the hatch .  There is also a wide variety of commercial baits available for channel cats. Which one of these will work best depends on the location and conditions. When I go catfish fishing, I try to take a variety of baits.  I use 3 rods and bait up with a little of everything.  If the fish show a preference for one type of bait, I switch to that one. I hope this helps.  Good luck and good fishing! Richard

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Question:

Hi everybody! Has anybody got any advice about flyfishing in New Zeeland. I’m planning a trip there and would like to know where, when … Thanks /Micke A    - Sweden –

Response:

Hi everybody! Has anybody got any advice about flyfishing in New Zeeland. I’m planning a trip there and would like to know where, when … Thanks /Micke A    - Sweden –

Hi there, Try http://www-aghort.massey.ac.nz/flyfish/intro This is the NZ flyfishing page. good luck….

Response:

Micke, Check out: http://www-aghort.massey.ac.nz/flyfish/intro /Tord Andreasson

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Question:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite

Oops! Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply we’re not in the backcountry after dark.  Many times I’m bivouaced on a ledge while climbing or camping in sagebrush near a remote desrt cave in Wyoming. So what I meant to imply is that besides the diversity of day trips many of us pack gear into remote places during mountaineering, caving, and whitewater trips that backpackers normally don’t visit. I’ve never seen backpackers on the East Ridge of the Grand Teton, or in the desert near Bighorn caverns, or along some of the remote stretches of whitewater in central Idaho, so there ARE more people in the backcountry overnight far from trailheads and vehicles, but in different places than backpackers normally go. I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip. Steve —

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Eugene Miya: What worries me more are the borderline Wilcox’s out there reading the net (you can quote me on that).  I know a few in everyday life, and I lost one a couple of years back.  That is evolution in action. –eugene Steve Reiser:   Hi Eugene, I read your posting on "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and "White Winds", both of which I’ve read and have copies of.  Snyder indicated a lot of bad judgement by Wilcox.  Wilcox tries to be objective in his book, but one can’t help but notice his omissions. He seemed to cover up his errors not by arguing with Snyder’s account, but by ignoring them altogether. His book seemed somewhat defensive, especially at the end when he talks about all the grief he went through in the press afterword. I think Snyder probably gave an honest account, which arouses some wrath toward Wilcox, in most readers.  I didn’t like the way Wilcox covered his errors, but I was convinced that he suffered enough condemnation afterword to make me feel a bit sorry for him. I think his response was a bit overly defensive to the media, the Park Service, and the relatives of those who died. I would imagine that Wilcox’s attempt to gloss over his errors may have been part of the inspiration for Snyder to write his book in the first place. Hence, if Wilcox would have been more honest in the first place, it’s possible that neither book would have ever been written. It’s hard to read both books and not come up with mixed feelings toward Wilcox.  It’s tempting to feel some anger toward him for lack of good judgement, especially on their summit day for the second group, and at the same time feeling some sympathy for the weight of blame layed on him, since he was the expedition leader. (Snyder was better qualified to be the leader of the group.) Steve Reiser P.S – Seven friends of mine left yesterday for the Denali. I wish them well. (They’re more experienced than most in the books discussed above). If this appears twice, I first posted without a subject. —

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I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip.

Maybe we have a problem with semantics here.  I think if you hike off into the woods with a backpack, you’re backpacking, no matter what the end result is.  I pack in to climb mountains, do caves, search for minerals, etc. and consider that backpacking.  Cripes, those packs are heavy – I’m not doing it for fun. Well, maybe I am.  Either way, I’m still pleased that there are less people out there when sunset finishes and the stars come out.

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There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities.

Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite a bit of backpacking in the early 70’s.  He said that he would hike 10 miles into the backcountry and see several groups of people back there too and think nothing of it.  Other than my group of friends, I don’t know anyone at all that backpacks and I almost never see anyone else in the backcountry (outside of hunters, that is).  One would think that there would at least be trail bikers back there but they seem to be more into ‘day-biking’.  I’m not complaining, of course, I’m happy.

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH [some deleted] ON THE DECLINE   Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.

However, if you look at statistics for many other backcountry activities, you’ll find a drastic increase. Mountaineering, technical rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking, spelunking, and many other backcountry sports are experiencing nearly exponential growth.  I see more people specializing in specific sports in the backcountry and less who are out strictly backpacking. DIVERSIFY   Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.

This hesitation to diversify has cost many local stores business in specialized gear, more of which is sold through mail order companies.  I probably buy 50% of my outdoor gear through mail order due to this hesitance in local store.  I’m into all of the sports I listed above and the diversity of gear required is far more than most outdoor shops are willing to carry. My point here in comparison to the original article is to note that even though outdoor gear is fashionable on the streets, day hikes, and campgrounds, and with backpacking on the decline, there is still an exploding market for specialized backcoutry sports. There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Steve —

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH Backpacking Outlets Expand Bottom Line    by Susan Simmons Eustes Boulder Business Report – May 1990    Despite a dramatic drop in number of campers and tourists trekking into the back country, area mountaineering stores say their sales are growing every year.    The day when the Vasque hiking boots were the "casual" loafer for many Boulderites has long disappeared.  Today, lighter and brighter are in demand and traditional mountaineering stores are expanding product lines to include gear for every sport from kayaking to mountain biking.    Like it or not, the mountaineering "look" continues to be fashionable in Boulder.  "You always want the ‘in’ look, whether you are hiking the mall or hiking Flagstaff," said John Whitbeck, manager at the north face in Boulder. "People want to wear clothing that identifies them as outdoorsy." ON THE DECLINE    Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.    … In 1985, the first year permits were issued for Indian Peaks [Wilderness Area], 2,134 were requested.  In 1989, 1,550 permits were requested.    So what does this mean for the people who sell camp stoves, sleeping bags, and hiking shoes?    It means even more business, said Whitbeck.    "In our 15 retail stores, without exception, business has been up a mile." The selling point for The North Face, and other mountain stores, is the dramatic shift in outdoor gear lines from the products carried 15 years ago. The traditional business of boots, packs and tents has mushroomed to include equipment for outdoor sports as varied as cross-country skiing or fly fishing. DIVERSIFY    As baby boomers married and began to raise children, more chose day hikes or more convenient overnight stays in campgrounds, say Jim Wilson of the back- country office at Rocky Mountain National Park. …    … (examples of stores diversifying) …    Dan Hare, manager of The Boulder Mountaineer, said his sales of backpacks and sleeping bags continues to increase, but "lots of people buy backpacks that never go into the back country," he added.    Shannon Long, manager at the Boulder Army Store, has noticed more of his customers are car camping and buying more for convenience.  Such campers, however, often opt for the more expensive lines.    "Ten years ago, people weren’t buying high-tech stuff.  They weren’t into buying brand names.  They were more concerned about getting a good product for a low price."    Clothing is a big seller for most outdoor shops.  Color are big, as are brand names and high fashion, mountain store owners agree.    Everybody likes rugby shirts and cotton shorts, said Phil Hollman, salesman at The North Face.  "Colors and style – people are really taken with that as much as we like to think they weren’t," Hollman said.  "Everything is getting more specialized: new technologies, new fabrics, lighter weight and very colorful."    Wools and cottons are taking a back seat to newer, more durable and comfortable fabrics such as Goretex, Dudley said.  And with the newer fabrics come higher prices.    The "tech heads" want the best, Noel added.  People want the fiberglass tent poles, the lightweight backpacks and the warmer, more water repellant clothing even if it means higher prices.    Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.    Image and brand names mean more to people than store managers care to admit, [Mountain Sports buyer Scott] Lee said.  "We’re not quite as trendy a store as some …  We don’t want to lose our image as a mountaineering shop."

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