Question:

I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Response:

Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

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And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape.     C.Webster

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed.

There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips).

Yep.  I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

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There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  

That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret. <g — Charlie…

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I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can?

Don’t know about ol’ Prince Albert but of late,  I’ve been using a satchel.  It’s a smallish bag designed for students with slots for pens, disks, etc.  Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ah, yes . . . reminds me of a gal I saw once in a bar in Okinawa. And the things she could do with a cigarette and a beer bottle . . . but that’s another story .  :-) Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest. That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret. <g — Charlie…

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Thanks, Bill. Seems like the vest distributes weight a little better. I don’t have long legs and frequently manage to soak the bottom of my vest, but wonder how a loaded chest pack feels after a day of fishing. Expect I’ll go with the vest. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

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The first tackle box I ever had was a tobacco can. Can’t remember if it was Prince Albert or Half and Half, but those cans were great. And If you were eight years old you could sometimes find a few shreds of tobacco and really live dangerously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape.     C.Webster

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Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.  I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Yep.  I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

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I glue them together back to back.  I take two such assemblys and cut radial notches in them and fit them together so they fit 90 degrees to each other. Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

. The CD, of course, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

        …or watching paint dry, which i will speculate is one of your most challenging intellectual endeavors.         get it? wayno

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<RWP mused and asked:  What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? Like most other things I usually want more than one solution to every problem.  I have this ordered from L.L. Bean but it won’t be available til March 18th.  I bought it for float tubing and deeper wading (I keep soaking my current vest although is it a "shorty" wading model — maybe cuz I stand only 5′8" tall in stilettos). TC21140 Olive Modular Fishing System Large Chest/Fanny Pack……$49.00 TC24057 Black Modular Fishing System Ultralight Chris Fanning — still trying to buy his way to fly fishing bliss…

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Thanks to everybody for the ideas. I still dunno what the hell I’m going to do. But you’un’s thoughts are helpful. Bob — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <RWP mused and asked:  What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? Like most other things I usually want more than one solution to every problem.  I have this ordered from L.L. Bean but it won’t be available til March 18th.  I bought it for float tubing and deeper wading (I keep soaking my current vest although is it a "shorty" wading model — maybe cuz I stand only 5′8" tall in stilettos). TC21140 Olive Modular Fishing System Large Chest/Fanny Pack……$49.00 TC24057 Black Modular Fishing System Ultralight Chris Fanning — still trying to buy his way to fly fishing bliss…

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I came home tonight and found that ‘resident’ had been sent an AOL CD. Nicely packaged in a thin metal container.  YeeHaw.  I’ve got a place other than my hat to keep those tiny flies now.  I grabbed a magnet off the ‘frig and found out it’ll work just fine. The CD, of course, was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Wait for a second one, put a spindle through them both, and a small bolt or similar on the rim of one, put this in a simple stand, and you have an excellent linewinder. You can make a nice tool stand for fly-tying tools etc, in a similar way. Just drill holes around the rim, and mount the disc on a heavy bolt or similar. Depending on the reflective material used, they also make excellent lamp reflectors. They should not be mounted too close to heat sources though. If you buy a cheap electric clock motor, mount it behind the disk, and then mount the hands, then you have a nice wall clock. Cutting notches around the rim of the disc, turns it into a very handy cast holder. These were very popular at one time. If you glue a raised rim to the disc, and partition the disc with further strips ( like an apple tart decoration with pastry) of strip cork for instance, then you have a very handy stackable hook store. There are lots of other uses for such high grade plastic discs.  If AOL and others want to give them away, then I see no reason not to use them. TL MC

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The first tackle box I ever had was a tobacco can. Can’t remember if it was Prince Albert or Half and Half, but those cans were great. And If you were eight years old you could sometimes find a few shreds of tobacco and really live dangerously.

I came home tonight and found that ‘resident’ had been sent an AOL CD. Nicely packaged in a thin metal container.  YeeHaw.  I’ve got a place other than my hat to keep those tiny flies now.  I grabbed a magnet off the ‘frig and found out it’ll work just fine. The CD, of course, was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a great belt system  keep a tight line

I have the LL Bean large chest pack with cargo strap, and I can carry more stuff than I could in my shorty vest, and everything is better organized and easier to find. Also, the weight is more evenly distributed. I also got the mesh strap for hot weather. I have tried using the pack with the included belt as a fanny or hip pack, but it just doesn’t feel right for some reason. I really like it as a chest pack, though. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Bob Patton

Bob,   I used the same vest for many years, a Stearns inflatable model.  Because of the heavy cloth and the enclosed rubber bladders, it was very hot in the summer.  I bought a "Fishpond" ($60.00) chest pack/hip pack a couple of years ago.  You can wear it either way.  I needed to use the neck strap as I am "hip challenged" and I couldn’t keep the thing from sliding down to my knees.  The pack works pretty well but when fully loaded, sticks out quite a ways.  I used it mainly as a hip pack but used the shoulder strap to keep it from sliding down.  I didn’t like using it as a chest pack.  Just always seemed to be in the way.   On my way back home from the Yellowstone clave, I treated myself to a Simms mesh vest ($100.00).  I like this vest better than the chest pack.  The weight is spread out very comfortably across the shoulders and holds everything I need.  It’s cut short for deep wading and seems to be the best compromise for me.  I needed to remove the chest pack when I rowed my pontoon and there’s always a chance it will end up floating down the river. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a

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Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob

I used to use a Filson vest that I bought because I love those old school Filson products; however, it was way to heavy and the snaps tended to stick shut in the cold….one cold day in Yellowstone park, I couldn’t open the snap on one of the pockets and ripped the pocket trying.  Same day I bought my Simms vest in West and haven’t used the Filson since. Eugene K.

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I just received a "FlyTrap" that I bought from ezflyfish.com. Looks like it will beat the hell out of fleece and styrofoam patches. Bob

//snip// pens, disks, etc.  Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Question:

Well we survived  . . .  barely. You see, it’s been raining, and it’s spring, and there’s been some snow melt.  That ends up with lots of high, dirty water.  We tried Friday, we tried Saturday, and tomorrow we’re going to the fishing show.  We know when we’re beat. Louie tried his nymphs, I tried my wets and Greg threw what ever he had but it made no difference – only the whistle trout were interested.   Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it! On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!! Greg’s a little bemused by all of this and he’s beginning to wonder what he’s getting himself into.  I try to reassure him but the damage has been done.  Anyway we went, we came, we saw, we left defeated. Now we sit, drowning our sorrows in what ever is handy, ice wine, bordeaux, Macallans, Wild Turkey – hell, you make do with what you have. Cheers Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it!

Well is he hooked? On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever

Speaking of Patagonia, I was fishing the surf a few weeks ago when suddenly all these people show up with fly gear.  I was packing up after having caught a croaker.  I never did too well in this spot and never saw anyone else fly fishing so it was a bit of a surprise to realize that I’m not the only fool who likes to hang around a polluted river mouth whipping tungsten-laden PVC through the air at the end of a graphite stick.  Turns out they work at Patagonia and often conduct *field research* after work. Mu

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On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!!

Peter, part of the art of flyfishing is *lookg* right. Any one who looks the part earns the comment -"There’s a real fly fisher" If no fish are caught then it’s the dumb fish’s fault! I’ll bet the accommodation was first class though. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

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Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

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Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

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Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

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I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

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writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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Question:

Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange.

Well said, and while the occasional violent discharge may generate a lot of noise and smoke, the sound and the smell dissipate quickly. — Charlie…

Response:

I don’t think this is quite true. Many people here make every possible effort to help newbies and others at every opportunity, and also welcome new posters.  We also however have a duty as a group to see that misleading information, or bigoted or arbitrary ideas  are at least answered, and in some cases dashed to the ground at once. Continued exposure to such dangerous claptrap might infect the odd newbie or other poster to the extent that he believes at least some of it. This must be avoided at all costs.  Most anglers I know are decent kind generous people, and have no need or wish to spread poisonous or elitist ideas. They just mainly love fishing. They do not go around behaving like pariahs and foisting their ideas or opinions on others in an unpleasant way. It might be that you looked in at just the wrong moment. I do not have the impression that this is an exclusive club as you maintain.  I am rather surprised at the somewhat limited number of regular participants, considering the number of anglers out there, and that this is basically the only show in town, but this could be for a host of reasons, other than those you describe. The only person here in this particular case who started trying to exclude and ridicule people for all sorts of things, was the person you mentioned. There have not been many others, in fact at the moment I can not recall any others of this overt nature. A couple of rather nutty views and comments have been jumped upon immediately, but that is all. At one point every single post emanating from the particular source you mentioned was either misleading, untrue, defamatory, overbearing, bigoted, or otherwise insulting. This sort of thing is bound to cause retaliation to some extent, and a damn good thing too. This group is in my opinion usually very fair in its reactions as a whole. If someone is a racist or a bigot , then his views must be challenged and combated at every turn. The same goes for extremist views. They have no place in fly-fishing which as you say is a haven and a solace for everybody. Hope you have a nice trip. Tight lines ! MC

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(a worthwhile perspective other than mine snipped) Barry, The very diversity of opinion on controversial subjects which gives you alarm is one of the strengths of this group.  What you see over and over is not the stringent "party line" of a narrow focused group, but rather the many colored viewpoints which strenghten our individual world views.  Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Yes well, perfectly true, I was rather of the same impression, but was also of the impression that I had spread more than enough shit myself recently, so refrained from the straightforward forthright path evident in your post. Agree with the sentiments though. Must admit to not having seen all that many worthwhile or camaraderie inducing posts from Barry either, but then who the hell am I to judge, just another loud mouthed asshole. But there again, at least my title was officially bestowed, ( and well earned I might add ! ) )) TL MC

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Joe F: <<It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing. (rest of excellent post snipped) Wish I had said that, Joe.  That is *exactly* what roff is all about.  Thank you. Louie http://cdesb.com/albolene.html

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Oh well, that’s why I have message filters.

Yeah, for some the internet is a place where they feel they can say anything they please.  For others it is the only place that they have the power to hide from unpleasantness.  After all, that’s why you message filters.

Response:

Brian, Bullseye. Also, it’s obvious that the few loudmouths now dominating ROFF do not have enough knowledge about flyfishing to say much about it. Therefore, they are quick to change the subject.

I’m going to go way out on a limb here and guess that I may be perceived as one of those offensive loudmouths.  And your right, I don’t know enough about fly fishing to offer advice to my betters.  In fact I don’t know enough about ANYTHING to offer my services as a mentor to the world at large.  Your presence here coupled with your contempt for those who have nothing to offer suggests that you are in such a position.  I am delighted.  Please teach me. A popular off-topic twist is to spew on and on about beer and alcohol. So, add a few drinks and bottle of liquor to big egos that know little about flyfishing and you have a newsgroup that is like the current state of ROFF.

Most of the talk about drinking comes from a group who have individually and collectively shown themselves to be very knowledgeable and remarkably devoid of inflated ego.  One occasionally hears someone whine about what a clever bunch of people they think they are.  In fact, they ARE clever.  The exercise of their wit is often mistaken by the intellectually challenged as nastiness and inflated ego.  Damned shame, a lot of good stuff passes a whole bunch of people by. Nonetheless, it is sometimes entertaining.  In time, we’ll get some serious flyfishers back. Bob Elliott

Please recommend some serious fly fishers.  I’d like to see what one looks like.

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Absolutely excellent post, and I believe the truest to date on this subject. Thank you very much indeed. TL MC

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<sanctimonious sneer snipped Well, if it isn’t our old friend Barry, back to drop his second little incendiary device in about as many months and then scurry away as before with his superior morals tucked firmly up his tight ass. I read seventeen responses on this thread before beginning my own.  As usual the majority of respondents are a great deal more courteous and reasonable then your little slap in the face should have earned you.  Does the word irony mean anything to you Barry?  How many of the people you have denigrated here begin a thread by not so slyly telling the rest of us what assholes we are?  And how many of them then run away?  Do you really believe that your little diatribe contributes to the camaraderie you so miss from the good old days before the fractious loudmouths took over?  And just how was this thinly disguised tirade related to fly fishing? Generally speaking and despite your sophomoric conclusions, the majority here are not especially exclusionary.  However, I for one, would be delighted to make an exception in your case.  Note that there was very little gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing attendant upon your last departure.  One suspects there would be no more this time.  In the meantime here’s a little thought for you to mull over whenever you have a moment free from your self appointed labor of defending the moral high ground.  The world is full of people just like the evil folks you find here; there are even more like me!  And this is the only planet you’ll ever get to live on.  Welcome to Hell Barry! p.s.  You never did answer my question the last time your stuck your oh so superior head in the door.  You amy recall that we were discussing whether or not the native Americans should have their treaty rights revoked because nobody should have special privileges.  We ended with my asking you whether or not the playing field is level.  Well?  Is it? Note:  For those who found themselves in accord with Barry’s post.  There is little danger that he will respond to this post.  Last time he showed up he spewed forth his muddle headed position and then promptly disappeared when he was taken to task for it.  Presumably he will do so again.  It is not in his nature to sully himself by wading through the muck that he so freely strews about him.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing.   The camaraderie we share goes on.   It is unreasonable, however, to expect the camaraderie to exist without the multitude of off-topic subjects we discuss. I’m as guilty as most, I suppose, but its the exploration of views, interests, and personalities outside our common interest that brings us together as friends.   Without it, we’re just boring and homogenous. I’m not a great fly fisherman.   I don’t have a lot to share on that subject compared to many here.   But these are great guys, and I enjoy hanging out here and sharing jokes and lies in between my occasional substantive on-topic contributions.   I’ve made friends here, a phenomenon that still astounds me.   If I say something stupid, I expect to be called on it or justifiably ridiculed.   I expect intelligent and opinionated discussion on any subject as if I were in person with "live" fly fishermen.   My fly fishing friends are not friends because they think like me or act like me or have only fishing in common with me.   They are my friends because we learn from each other, enjoy our differences, and debate serious issues with civility.   That is why ROFF is such a great place, and why I think you’re wrong in your conclusions. It’s just that the rules are different here.   When tempers flare, and they surely do, the opportunities for resolution are different than in real life. You can’t punch anybody in the nose, you can’t raise your voice, and you can’t make them leave.   Shouting and name calling are really the only avenue available to let off steam.   Frequent offenders receive frequent criticism and may be ostracized.   It’s usenet, what else are you gonna do? New visitors, in my experience, are welcomed with open arms and helpful advice.   Those that stay become "one of us" and we’re glad for the company. Some newbies start out as rectums right from the start and receive a less than warm welcome.   So be it.   There are too many people here with too many diverse opinions to get along all the time.   There’s a lot of crap I don’t like and don’t bother with, but that doesn’t define the group for me. We are the forum that makes the discussion possible among fly fishermen, and that’s what I like. Joe F.

Thanks Joe. I don’t think, no, I know I couldn’t have said it better. Tight lines to all you opinionated rascals! Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

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There was a time when I posted regularly to ROFF and read most of the posts. I enjoyed the camaraderie that we all shared because of our love of fly fishing and the positive nature of the newsgroup.  <snip

It is often said that ROFF is Darwinian, and that is certainly true, not from the "survival of the fittest" perspective that our frequent battles would imply; but because it is constantly evolving.   New folks come, some folks go, the subject of immediate interest keeps changing.   The camaraderie we share goes on.   It is unreasonable, however, to expect the camaraderie to exist without the multitude of off-topic subjects we discuss. I’m as guilty as most, I suppose, but its the exploration of views, interests, and personalities outside our common interest that brings us together as friends.   Without it, we’re just boring and homogenous. I’m not a great fly fisherman.   I don’t have a lot to share on that subject compared to many here.   But these are great guys, and I enjoy hanging out here and sharing jokes and lies in between my occasional substantive on-topic contributions.   I’ve made friends here, a phenomenon that still astounds me.   If I say something stupid, I expect to be called on it or justifiably ridiculed.   I expect intelligent and opinionated discussion on any subject as if I were in person with "live" fly fishermen.   My fly fishing friends are not friends because they think like me or act like me or have only fishing in common with me.   They are my friends because we learn from each other, enjoy our differences, and debate serious issues with civility.   That is why ROFF is such a great place, and why I think you’re wrong in your conclusions. It’s just that the rules are different here.   When tempers flare, and they surely do, the opportunities for resolution are different than in real life. You can’t punch anybody in the nose, you can’t raise your voice, and you can’t make them leave.   Shouting and name calling are really the only avenue available to let off steam.   Frequent offenders receive frequent criticism and may be ostracized.   It’s usenet, what else are you gonna do? New visitors, in my experience, are welcomed with open arms and helpful advice.   Those that stay become "one of us" and we’re glad for the company. Some newbies start out as rectums right from the start and receive a less than warm welcome.   So be it.   There are too many people here with too many diverse opinions to get along all the time.   There’s a lot of crap I don’t like and don’t bother with, but that doesn’t define the group for me. We are the forum that makes the discussion possible among fly fishermen, and that’s what I like. Joe F.

Response:

tripper: <<Truely, here in ROFF, one man’s light is another’s lightening rod and we are all illumed by the interchange.

I was illumed by the interchange once. Cost me a bundle in repair bills… I got illumed in Subic Bay many years ago.  Pretty good, but it cost a helluva lot!  Risky too. Dave L.

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wayno complains: (snip for brevity) <<wayno; a man not to be toyed with wayno, did I ever tell you about my good friend Michael Era

Question:

        I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

Response:

I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems.

Go north,  go north. IMO Michigan has some of the best assortment of wadable trout  waters in North America. maybe not the biggest and the most famous but…. The list is endless starting with the AuSable and Manisttee Rivers near Grayling (and the birthplace of Trout Unlimited about 3 hours from the Metro airport), the Pierre Marquette, the Jordan the Betsy, the Platte, the Pidgeon, etc. And that does not even touch the upper Pennisula. Lots of these rivers have salmon and steelhead runs in the winter and spring. Several active clubs (the Greater Flint Muddler Minnows come to mind) and a great fly show near Detroit  in the Winter. Can’t speak for Detroit, since I just fly in, get  in the rental car and head north on I-75. There’s also some great fishing accross the border in Canada close to Windsor. Bob Linseman has written a pretty good book on Michigan Trout streams. While not in Detroit, The Fly Factory in Grayling and Great Lakes Fly Fishing in Grand Rapids are two top notch fly shops with top notch owners very williing to help new people find their way around to the Michigan Fishing. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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I used to live close to Detroit.  Don’t bother looking for trout streams near the city.  As another post suggested, GO NORTH.  It is well worth the trip.  You only have to drive 2-3 hours in order to get to a good stream.  I used to fish the Pere Marquette in Baldwin regularly and it would take me 3 hours to get there.  From Detroit, it may take 4 hours.  There is a nice, long stretch of water on the PM that is designated "flies only", so you won’t find too many bait fisherman or snaggers there.  Stop into Ed’s Sport Shop on the main drag, Michigan Ave, and they will get give you the scoop on what the fish are biting on. Maurice Paquette

I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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I used to live in Detroit (Birmingham) years ago and I’m sorry to say there is not much fishing around the city. But if you go North up to the UP (or not even that far) there is some fabulous fishing. Echo all the rivers that Mr. Knight recommended. I used to fish for smallmouths about an hour an outside of Detroit. Tons of lakes in the area. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

Response:

There aren’t really any good trout streams in the Detroit area. The DNR stocks Paint Creek in Macomb Co. and the Huron River every spring (the Huron River fish do not stick around due to water temp.)  I’ve heard that the fishing in both is marginal.  A few hours away you’ve got some great options.  Check out "Michigan Trout Streams"  by Linsenman. Feel free to e-mail me if you’d like fly shop suggestions for your new area. Jason Schwartz         I’ll be moving up to the Detroit area in a while and want to find some good trout strems. Can anyone help? Nick Lewis

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Question:

Got a good fishin’ buddy (my brother-in-law) that is looking for a spare spool for an old F.W. Young & Sons Ltd. model #1535 fly reel.  Dunno where he got it, but we wondered if anybody out there can help us locate a spool for it.  We both suspect it was made in the U.K.  Thanks a lot for any info available!  -Bill-

Response:

FW Young & Sons Ltd. are made in Redditch England. Great reel by the way, still popular here in Norway. I have used the #1540 for Atlantic Salmon fishing for years, never failed. FF-shops here sell them. About $50 for a #1535 a spare spool. Probably cheaper in the US. O.N Norway – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a good fishin’ buddy (my brother-in-law) that is looking for a spare spool for an old F.W. Young & Sons Ltd. model #1535 fly reel.  Dunno where he got it, but we wondered if anybody out there can help us locate a spool for it.  We both suspect it was made in the U.K.  Thanks a lot for any info available!  -Bill-

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Question:

I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received.

There is a printed magazine called "Sports n’ Spokes printed by PVA Publications (paralized vets) that covers outdoors and athletic activities for the wheelchair world.  I haven’t seen a copy in a couple years (used to be very good.) Can reach PVA pubs at 602-224-0500 They probably have some past issues with boating articles, plus they have a questions area. Gary Polson RBBI http://www.virtualpet.com/rbbi

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I would like some advice on what might be an appropriate style/make/model of small boat for use when either trolling or fly fishing on lakes. In the past I have used a converted 10 foot Portaboat with the center bench removed and a padded seat suspended between the front and back benches. A seat clamped onto a middle bench perched me too high and was not sufficiently stable for my comfort, which is why a three bench aluminum rowboat is probably not what I am seeking. I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat, it must be something that allows be ready access from sitting on a dock to sliding into the boat. Climbing is not an option. My ideal boat would allow a small outboard motor and an electric trolling motor and have seating that allowed two people to sit comfortably and fish while at anchor. It should be light enough that one person could retrieve it and load it onto a trailer without any heavy lifting. I want something that is stable. Speed is not a consideration – just something to poodle about a calm lake. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received. Thanks, —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like some advice on what might be an appropriate style/make/model of small boat for use when either trolling or fly fishing on lakes. In the past I have used a converted 10 foot Portaboat with the center bench removed and a padded seat suspended between the front and back benches. A seat clamped onto a middle bench perched me too high and was not sufficiently stable for my comfort, which is why a three bench aluminum rowboat is probably not what I am seeking. I use a wheelchair and though I would be transferring from my chair into the boat, it must be something that allows be ready access from sitting on a dock to sliding into the boat. Climbing is not an option. My ideal boat would allow a small outboard motor and an electric trolling motor and have seating that allowed two people to sit comfortably and fish while at anchor. It should be light enough that one person could retrieve it and load it onto a trailer without any heavy lifting. I want something that is stable. Speed is not a consideration – just something to poodle about a calm lake. Any advice or recommendations of where to look would be greatly appreciated. I am a complete novice as far as boats are concerned and all information on things that I should consider will be gratefully received. Thanks, —

You do not list where you want to fish and what tpe of lake you are fishing so this may or may not be appropriate. I would look at a tri hull you should be able to pick up a used tri hull posibly arround 18-20 feet which if very stable for a couple thousand I would think.My father in law had one for years and it was nice boat. Another option would be a pontoon boat but I am not sure how easy that would be to trailor and how rough of water it would take. If you are fishing a larg lake like lake Erie I suggest you charter of go with a friend because a boat that can handle sudden storms typically has a lot of overhead like dockage and insurance etc. I think dockage arround here runs from about $700-1800 dollars another option which I recomend is use transient dockage. If you have a decent size boat you can put it in lake Erie at a Marina like Genva Stae park for about $22 per day so if you reserved a slip for Saturday you could come up fish Saturday and leave your boat in the wtaer after fishing and come back and go boating in the afternoon and evening and then then next morning you are already in he water so you can go out again and then at the end of the day take your boat home. If you sleep on the baot your showers etc are included in the price. If you come for 10 weekedns the cost is arround $220 and that is a beteer part of the summer.A caomparable dock is $1080 for a season so this is an alternative. Yo obviously would not be retricted to weekends only but you see the savings is there. I hope this helps Captain Bryce Seymour http://www.ncweb.com:80/biz/hooker/

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Question:

i am taking a friend on a flyfishing vacation starting july 27. we are leaving from sacramento and will probably head to the upper sac. or maybe the mcloud the first day. eventually we’ll end up at the deschutes river, but what we do between the 2 areas is undecided. suggestions for waters to fish would be gratefully welcome. thanks a million in advance          greg

Response:

Greg, I have some advice on eastern Oregon lakes on my site, and The Scarlet Ibis Fly Shop has some more content re: Oregon.  Hit their tip archives.  You can get to all of this at the URL below.  The lakes are liable to be off, though, the way temperatures have been.  Why not try the upper McKenzie, after the Rogue? i am taking a friend on a flyfishing vacation starting july 27. we are leaving from sacramento and will probably head to the upper sac. or maybe the mcloud the first day. eventually we’ll end up at the deschutes river, but what we do between the 2 areas is undecided. suggestions for waters to fish would be gratefully welcome. thanks a million in advance          greg

– Greg Metcalfe            |  Affordable Web Development http://www.proaxis.com   |  IE or Netscape 3.0

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Question:

I bought my first float tube in the 60s and my first pontoon boat (a Leigh) three  months ago.  I’ll never get in a float tube again.  I have the oars setup and it sure gets me back to my truck in winds a lot easier than finning a tube.  Also, the chap that mentioned that getting in and out of a tube once a session so it doesn’t bother him either fishes short days or is considerably younger than I with a much strong bladder — and I don’t mean a tube bladder.

Response:

I’ve used both a tube and two other pontoon kickboats and would recomend the pontoon kickboats for the following reasons. Easier to get in and out of. You sit up higher and can see into the water better They’re faster than the traditional floatube With oar attachments they’re really faster! I use a JW Outfitters Backpacker that is easier to backpack into lakes than an inflated float tube. This one is made for backpacking. A group of us have been float tubing the boundary waters and Sylvania wilderness area for the last 7 years and live in our tubes 10 hours a day for a week, so I’m pretty peticular and have thought a lot about this. However, I’m now looking at the Hobie Float by Hobie Cat. It has roto molded pontoons and can be backpacked (24lbs). No more pumps and patches for the inflatable tubes!! Neat looking stuff. Local shop is getting a demo in and will probably fish it next week. As Dennis Miller says, " That’s just my opinion; I could be wrong." Good luck with your purchase. – Denny Redmond

Response:

tell me more about Leigh ppontoon boats-e.g. size, wt, price etc.does it spin a lot in the wind like a boat?

Response:

Rook, I do not know about Leigh pontoon boats but do know about the water otter.  It is 6ft 6inches X 44inches x 12inches weights 23 lb dry and about 32 with everthing.  The capacity is 300lbs.  Made out of 32oz. PVC 11oo Denier and the frame is 1 inch square aluminum tube.  I have used this oar pontoon boat on the Big Horn, Green River and the lower Sac.  I would not suggest that you get a kick pontoon boat ( with out the ability to use oars) a Caddis pontoon kick boat was used in the unfortunte (SP) accident last weekend on the green river.  Man died. Email me direct if you want more infor. on Water Otter.  Good luck. Regards, Joe – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -tell me more about Leigh ppontoon boats-e.g. size, wt, price etc.does it spin a lot in the wind like a boat?

Response:

]I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations. Well, here’s more than you ever wanted to hear about float tubes… I own the U Boat from The Creek Company.  Having used both round and U tubes, and recommend the U boat heavily, mainly for the ease of getting in and out of it.  There are probably a myriad of ways to get in and out of these things, but when you have flippers on, stepping through the middle of a round tube, while avoiding the seat, and still keeping your balance, well, let’s just say it takes practice.  I’ve also heard from people who’ve used a round boat for awhile, that it actually starts to wear the knees of neoprene waders, from the rubbing when you’re kicking in the water. I’ve used the Buck’s U tube, and unless they’ve changed it, what I didn’t like about it was the heavy metal bar that goes across the opening of the "U".  This is what keeps the open ends of the U from collapsing on your legs while you’re in the water.  The U Boat uses straps along the backside of the U to keep the open end of the U open and it works well.  (You pull them tight after inflating it.)  I didn’t like the bar on the Buck’s tube, because it added weight, and didn’t allow you to roll up the tube tightly when deflated. I had a chance to briefly demo both the U Boat and Gliderider (at a flyfishing show), and it was strictly a personal choice that I picked the U Boat.  I like the Gliderider, it seemed make me slouch, almost like a recliner chair.  With the U Boat, I was more upright.   I ended up buying my U Boat at the show, and their salesman made a strong pitch (as you would expect from a salesman) about their lifetime guarantee with NORMAL use, and how their seems are so much better sealed than competitors.  Take that for what it’s worth. Any shop worth its salt should let you demo a tube.  There are so many of these out there (and even more now with variants of pontoons & other "personal floatation devices"), that I think it would be impossible to make a decision based on catalogue pictures and testimony from others. Whatever you choose, enjoy!  These things are the greatest invention since the fly rod/ ree, and they’ll open up access to more water than you could get to without.  – Bill Uyeki

Response:

I’d recommend a pontoon style.  It’s easier to handle colder water because you have less body in the water.  It’s easier to get around in larger laker because you can use oars — and in smaller lakes it is just as easy to manuver as a regular float tube. Brian

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m about to buy my first float tube. I’ve ruled out the old round style and am leaning toward a u-shaped model although I have not ruled out a pontoon-type craft. I don’t want to spend more than $300. That puts me near the high end of u-boats. I’ve looked at the Buck’s Bullet and I’ve also received a recommendation for the Wood River Gliderunner. This is the low end for pontoon-style boats. I think Buck’s has one for $295. Don’t get me wrong, I would spend less than $300 but I want a good quality, well-designed product. Since this will be my only craft it must be versatile. My waters are large, potentially windy resevoirs and also small, walk-in lakes. I could conceivably also tube in the kelp beds off the coast here (So. Cal.) I’m 6′-4" and 190lbs. I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations.

Hmmm…If/when you settle on a float tube, make sure that it’s sized appropriately. At 6′4" and 190 you may be riding low in the water with some of the tubes out there – especially the u-boats (speakin’ from experience – I’m 6′5", headin’ for 230 (ugh!) and I use a Buck’s Giant "old style" tube to keep me high on the water). Also, realize that while the u-boats are indeed easier to get in and out of, on a windy day the waves will be breaking on your chest instead of against the tube… Anyway…I’m partial to the tubes over the pontoons as the tubes are easier to pack into remote ponds up in the Maine/NH woods (of course, I do have a 12′ canoe for situations where I guess a pontoon would otherwise be used). Of course, this is all entirely subjective stuff… /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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   Well, not to be a party pooper, but I’ve been perfectly happy with my totally-basic-no-frills Caddis round tube…it’s as tough and sturdy as any other model they make…it just doesn’t have the Lay-Z-Boy recliner back and all the pockets.  Best of all, it only costs about $80.    Do you really need a "U-boat?"  Why?  I have no trouble getting in and out of mine (and I usually only need to do it once once I’m on the water).    Just my 2 cents’ worth. —         Scott Wilkinson         Montgomery County, Maryland

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I have both a round tube and a Gliderider.  The Gliderider is definitely easier to use and easier to handle in wind.  While not a necessity, the V style is great.  I find that in the round tube, I bang up against the front of the tube when trying to move through the water quickly and it becomes annoying.  I am 6′ and I would imagine that at 6′ 4" you will have this problem too.  I was also attracted to the Gliderider because of its weight and portability.  At 6 lbs 11oz you can deflate it and stuff it into a duffel when traveling.  It’s easy to blow up without a pump (something you can’t do easily with a truck tire).  These lightweight bladders are available for a round tube but they cost ~ 50 – 80 bucks. You can buy a bigger and lighter round tube, but the cost will approach the Gliderider.  My girlfriend likes my round tube much better than the V tube because it lets her get a tan much easier without getting too wet. At least she can have a good time while I get to go fishing. Steve

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I’ve had the Caddis Premier U-tube for the last 2 years and have been extremely happy.  Lots of pockets.  I especially like the spreader bar that goes across the front.  It keeps it spread open while setting in it, and removes easy for entry and exit.  Cabella’s have them advertized right now for I think $159 including a pair of flippers. I dont think you can beat the deal if you want a U tube.  I looked extensively 2 years ago and decided this was the one I liked best. Good luck, & tight lines. Don Albrecht Donald Albrecht

Response:

I’m about to buy my first float tube. I’ve ruled out the old round style and am leaning toward a u-shaped model although I have not ruled out a pontoon-type craft. I don’t want to spend more than $300. That puts me near the high end of u-boats. I’ve looked at the Buck’s Bullet and I’ve also received a recommendation for the Wood River Gliderunner. This is the low end for pontoon-style boats. I think Buck’s has one for $295. Don’t get me wrong, I would spend less than $300 but I want a good quality, well-designed product. Since this will be my only craft it must be versatile. My waters are large, potentially windy resevoirs and also small, walk-in lakes. I could conceivably also tube in the kelp beds off the coast here (So. Cal.) I’m 6′-4" and 190lbs. I’d welcome any and all comments and recommendations. Thanks, Tim

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Question:

"I’m taking week long trip in June/July to this area.  Any

great recommendations on streams/rivers to flyfish on? << Spent some time in Kalispell last fall. This is definitely northwest Montana and it is stunningly beautiful but it is no hotspot for flyfishing. I fished all the streams in the Kalispell/Whitefish area and averaged about 0.5 fish per hour. Two forks of the Flathead River border Glacier National Park on the West and South. These are gorgeous rivers and you’d never regret spending a day on them but they’re not very fertile. Don’t get me wrong – there are plenty of fish but nothing like the famous Montana streams of the Yellowstone area and elsewhere. There is a very nice fly shop in Whitefish (can’t remember the name) where you can get flies and advice. If you go to this area, YOU MUST VISIT GLACIER NATIONAL PARK. It rivals anyplace on earth for beauty. Tim

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: Podell writes:

: "I’m taking week long trip in June/July to this area.  Any great : recommendations on streams/rivers to flyfish on?  I need something wide : enough to backcast on, as I still spend an inordinate amount of time in : the trees on narrow streams….." : In Montana, try the Madison,  the Gallatin, the Beaverhead, the : Jefferson, the Big Hole, the Missouri, and the Yellowstone if you don’t : want to travel very far (there are dozens more within a short drive). : Then, of course there are all of the rivers of Yellowstone Park.   Not to beat a dead horse… but none of these rivers are in Northwest Montana, either.  Mr. Hugh, do you own resort property or something?<g   There are many other rivers in the Montana/Idaho region other than around Bozeman/Big Sky.   Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

Podell writes:

"I’m taking week long trip in June/July to this area.  Any great recommendations on streams/rivers to flyfish on?  I need something wide enough to backcast on, as I still spend an inordinate amount of time in the trees on narrow streams….." Wow, are you in for a surprise and some fun.  You are going to be on some rivers where a backcast would have to be hundreds of feet long to get into trouble.   There are some BIG rivers to fish.  Certainly try the Henry’s Fork in the Harriman State Park, the Teton and perhaps the Falls rivers in Idaho.  In Montana, try the Madison,  the Gallatin, the Beaverhead, the Jefferson, the Big Hole, the Missouri, and the Yellowstone if you don’t want to travel very far (there are dozens more within a short drive). Then, of course there are all of the rivers of Yellowstone Park.   You are going to have to do some serious narrowing down of the options! but you will have fun. Don’t overlook using guides if you can afford it.  Many of these rivers are best floated rather than waded.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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: Podell writes:

: "I’m taking week long trip in June/July to this area.  Any great : recommendations on streams/rivers to flyfish on?  I need something wide : enough to backcast on, as I still spend an inordinate amount of time in : the trees on narrow streams….." : trouble.   There are some BIG rivers to fish.  Certainly try the Henry’s : Fork in the Harriman State Park, the Teton and perhaps the Falls rivers in : Idaho.   Ummm…none of these rivers are in *Northern* Idaho.  But I must agree he is in for a nice surprise. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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I’m taking week long trip in June/July to this area.  Any great recommendations on streams/rivers to flyfish on?  I need something wide enough to backcast on, as I still spend an inordinate amount of time in the trees on narrow streams…..

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