Question:

Phew. Good story. How about more of this? Who out there among us has ever written a story for publication, only to have it rejected by some pip-squeek assistant editor? Why not publish yourself on the web? right here? This beats the hell out of C&R pissing. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

Response:

Why not publish yourself on the web? right here?

What, and give away blood, sweat & tears FOR FREE ? My literary agent would have a coronary. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

‘There’s nothing like making a definitive stement on the net to provehow wrong you are’

Too true, too true!

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch.

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Response:

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Perfectly true, I know, I was that trout ! TL MC

Response:

Damn bait fisherman!  We need more bartenders like that around all trout streams! Warren

Response:

Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch. If some of the local worthies were to be believed he had been doing this every summer for the last ten years. Experts and tyros, men of letters, small boys with worms,  although the water was fly only, and even lowly poachers,  had all attempted the difficult cast at one time or another over the years, some even successfully, the jaw of the fish was laced with white scars easily visible in the clear water, testimony to the "barbs and arrows of outrageous fortune" to which he had been subjected and which he now bore with seeming nonchalance, perhaps even truculent pride. A hard won but most excellent education.  In the "Stag

Question:

See "Presentation" by Borger, or LaFontaine’s "Caddis" book.  Overpower a sidearm cast, just like skipping a stone on the water. It might work, but when I try it I always feel like a pompous ass. Oh-oh.  POLITICAL CORRECTION: for the illiterate out there, I mean that to be a four-legged animal, not somebody’s butt. BB

Response:

Thanks everyone for oyur help! I will let you know how I go… PS Got my second trout on fly yesterday…. Put up a terrific fight for the size.  I got three big runs from this fish with line stipping of at a rate of knots… I thought it was a monster but it turned out to be about 1.5 lb. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

Response:

(and so did charlie choc) The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972.

If, as charlie suggests, it is out of print, try the public libraries. Its a neat old book with some unorthodox solutions to some still relevant problems. The patterns he suggests and the materials he uses are not as water repellant nor as buoyant as the elk hair caddis, however, so you might want to use Wright’s technique, but stick with the EHC. brent

Response:

Mike Here’s another method that’s worked for me.  Use a long rod, very long leader 12′ with a very light tippet and stand almost directly upstream of the fish.   As the fly approaches the end of the drag free drift, lift the rod tip up and get all of the line and leader out of the water.  The fly just lightly dances on top of the water.  I’ve had a ‘bow jump 6" out of the water to take a fly danced this way. It works best if the wind and stream currents are going the same way, but it is difficult to get right if they are in opposite directions. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

Brent The author is Leonard M. Wright jr, "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect," Dutton, 1972. Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

Response:

How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

maybe try looking at some of Lefty’s writings – also try FFM website, www.flyshop.com.  http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

(some good advice on technique and a probable origin for the technique) Mike: If you are looking to dig even deeper, check out "Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect" by (an author I know, but whose name escapes me this early on a sunday – damn that aluminum cookware!). He describes how to tie and fish the ‘fluttering caddis’, but using hackle barbules and mink hair rather than elk hair. In any case, as Walt points out, the fish love the fly and the technique. good luck brent

Response:

How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

I skip a caddis after the initial drift is completed.  Landlocked salmon love it when the fly reaches the end of the drift and swings around to be straight down stream.  A retrieve back with sudden jerks of the rod will also encourage hits. However, this only works for a certain kind of caddis, usually in June in Maine.  The same trick applied in September does not produce the same results. Dave LaCourse

Response:

How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it…

There is no "right" way to do this. Experimentation is always worthwhile. I get 80%+ of my fish on a drag free drift, even on caddis. Fish feeding on Duns or emergers can be put down if there is any drag or motion to your fly, especially on heavily fished areas. I generally fish an area first using a drag free approach and then try some twitching or induced drag. Generally, just a twitch which moves the fly ever so slightly is what’s needed. However, in riffles and runs, more pronounced skips and hops followed by drag free drifts can be productive. A technique that sometimes brings up reluctant surface feeders in pocket water is a down stream technique. Wade upstream and to the side of one of the mini pools in a pocket stretch, until you are ten to fifteen feet away. In pocket water, fish are not easily spooked and a close approach is generally possible. Make a short cast to the side of the pocket you’re going to fish, raise your rod tip so that all the line and leader is off the water and hop a heavily dressed dry in and around the mini pool. With this technique, you can generally use a fly one or two sizes larger than what you would use on flatter water and a heavier tippets is also helpful. Strikes are violent. Fish will often will swipe at the fly but will hit it if your next cast is a drag free one. This is a good midsummer technique.  Especially in midsummer, these stretches of pocket water hold lots of fish including some good ones. Willi

Response:

How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

Response:

How do you skip a fly.  I have read and heard about doing this…but I have know idea what is ment by it… Can someone help me out on this please

 Mike, By twitching your rod real fast you send vibrations out your flyline/leader/tippet to the caddis. This causes the fly to "dance" on the water and it is a rare trout that can resist this flamenco. Here in the mountains of NC, there is a deceased flyfishing legend by the name of Mark Cathey. He "developed" this style back in the 20’s & 30’s on Hazel Creek and he always managed to fill his creel with the limit. Good luck with your dancing lessons, Walt —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

Response:

Question:

Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would  welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures.  Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.

Well that is very kind of you George and I am sure you mean it, and I thank you for saying it. I am sure that if we stuck to flyfishing we would have a great time. I am proud of the fact that you invited me. Unfortunately I do not think I would be able to accept an invitation at the moment, especially in the light of some of your recent posts. My views on some things are obviously diametrically opposed to some of yours, and I am very much afraid we would end up in a heated argument, having nothing whatever to do with flyfishing ,  to no good purpose.  I do not wish to be unfriendly or insulting to you, in fact  I respect many of your achievements, and I have tried hard to be friendly, notwithstanding a few run ins we had on earlier occasions, but feel I must state the case as I see it. It is not my place to censure you publicly, this is a free group and you have the right to say what you like, and I am sure you can get along very well without my presumptuous advice. I will presume to give you some anyway, which is meant sincerely from someone who is truly trying his best to be friendly and helpful. Please try and moderate your tone in your posts, and try and think a bit more before you jump in with both feet on any and all subjects.  You have succeeded in upsetting a great many people recently, some very badly,  to no good purpose, and this will only result in unfriendliness, insults etc being cast in your direction, and is also bad for the group as a whole. You obviously have a lot to offer this group, and it is a shame that you constantly undermine your own position with nonsensical ranting and ill-considered statements or insults to all and sundry. It sometimes looks as if you were purposely inflaming people and making enemies of them deliberately. You must know yourself that this is no good, either for your person or your business.  Please George, take a rest and look back at some of your posts in the cold light of day, and I am sure you will realise that this sort of thing does nobody any good. Of seventy posts you sent in a very short space of time at least half were denigrating and insulting to somebody.   If you screw up on something, OK, so what, we all do occasionally, but most of us accept this and attempt to rectify matters as soon as possible. Blustering away as if nothing had occurred is not the way to do this. I accept and respect the fact that you are angry about the wanton destruction of the wilderness, and many other things, and your genuine desire to rectify matters, so are many others on this group and elsewhere. The methods proposed and the  type of posting you have been using is not the way to advance. The same goes for insulting remarks about your competitors, involved political harangues, or jumping on somebody who advocates using some other product etc etc etc.  George believe me please, these are not the actions of a wise man. Maybe you are subjecting yourself to too much stress in all your various efforts to change the world and make it a better place. I can understand your passion in this, in fact I am certain many on this group feel similarly, allowing your unbridled passion free rein , is a very bad way of going about it however, and does not particularly enhance the clarity of your arguments, or your chances of success, and probably blinds you to reality to some extent, so that you strike out illogically at anything even remotely concerned with the subject, in a manner and tone which is guarateed to upset people. Quiet considered argumentation backed up by a good example is far more liable to be successful, and would result in mutual respect and greater friendliness on the part of all concerned. I thought very carefully indeed before posting this to the group, as opposed to just privately, as I do not on any account wish you to take this as an insult. I feel however somebody must say these things to you as directly as possible so that there is no possible chance of misunderstanding, and that there are people on the group who would also like to say them, but are for various reasons reluctant to do so, but would nevertheless like to see them said. George, please do me one more favour. Read this post carefully several times. Go away and think about it for a while, and then come back and read it again before you reply. Perhaps we may yet sit down one day in your den and tie a few flies or down a few grouses. I would like to think so. Whatever you may think or say George. I wish you well. Sincerely Mike Connor

Response:

Are you related to Jimmy Connors? I was once flamed for misspelling his name.

No relation, and I dont play tennis, but I do have balls If I flamed everybody who spelled my name wrongly, my fingers would be smoking, and I would need a new keyboard twice a week. Tait  leins ! Maik Koner

Response:

 Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would  welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures.  Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.

Response:

 Hell Wayno, where is the mouthpiece on a golf club ? Tight lines ! Mike Connor,  the ignorant

Wayne Harrison’s ass so bad, he will confess humbleness. —

Question:

<<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.

Response:

<<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.

    After sex is ok, during sex is another thing entirely.                                                       John Popp                                                   in Sanford Fl.

Response:

If you smoke during sex you’re definitely doing it too fast! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… It’s ok to smoke after sex. But if sex is a pain in the ass, you are doing it wrong. Dave L.    After sex is ok, during sex is another thing entirely.                                                      John Popp                                                  in Sanford Fl.

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers.

Plus, after having the fish shred every single fly you’ve got in your box you can take the butt end of that stogie, jam a hook through it, and catch One More For The Road. Not to mention their use as a mosquito, fly, and fisherman repellant. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious. Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Not me Bill, I totally agree….a pack and a half a day smoker, I quit after 20 yrs of that. Within 6 months, cigarette smoke and *especially* cigar smoke sickened me. I have been known to get up and move (or leave) a restaurant due to somebody lighting up at the next table. (this was before the anti-smoking laws went into effect) The experience astream is so much more enjoyable without clouds of toxin interfering with the clean air. Frank Church Elkhart, IN

Response:

Not me Bill, I totally agree….a pack and a half a day smoker, I quit after 20 yrs of that. Within 6 months, cigarette smoke and *especially* cigar smoke sickened me.

Interesting. I had smoked for 30yrs (most of them 2+ packs/day) when I quit 5yrs ago. I find that my sense of smell has vastly improved but 2nd hand smoke doesn’t bother me any more now than it did, in fact I will move into the smoking section of a resteraunt just to get away from screaming kids. I never did much like smelling cigars even then, though<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Only when you can get one to light… "FW" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Perhaps…but I’ve found a better "trick".  My daughter purchased a nice flask to carry in my vest.  I fill it with a bit of alcoholic beverage and, when fishing is really slow, I sip away at my flask.  I don’t catch any more fish than I did before, but the slow times seem more enjoyable Barry

Response:

Only when you can get one to light…

More than a little truth in this! Wet fingers and dry cigarettes are not a good combination.  I used to have trouble lighting my pipe having just filled it when my hands were wet. I’ve *had* to give up my beloved pipe on what turned out to be unfounded medical advice. — Bill

Response:

Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene

______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone.     No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends.   It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1)   As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste?

 Robert Scott replies: < .<<..and I’ve caught a nice Lake George, NY Landlocked Salmon whose stomach contained a cigarette butt AND a foil gum wrapper.  Perhaps he wanted to freshen his breath after the smoke? I can understand a trout taking a cigarette butt (with a filter).  There is a nymph called the "Strawman" that is heavily packed spun deer hair. You Gink it up (George’s stuff can be used as a verb too) and it is supposed to represent a caddis case.  It looks just like a cigarette filter.   Tough fly to fish, however, for nothing will go near it if there is even the slightest bit of drag (micro-drag?).  But if you can get it totally drag free, they smash it.  It is an excellent fly to dapple with. I smoked for 40 years.  I was up to 4 packs/day (3 cartons a week).  My doc figured out I was smoking a cigarette every 11 minutes (if I slept 8 hours/day).  I’ve been off the damn things for 6 years now and every-thing smells great. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Mr. G You are a very sick man, I hope the doctors are kind to you when they take you away. PS, don’t even think of "slapping people silly" unless you are Evander Holyfield, you might get hurt. Are you really a control freak or is this just a troll? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone. No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends. It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1) As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

______ I admit that I am trolling a bit with the below post, but my heart screams when I see a friend of mine smoking. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______ Doesn’t offend me or many, many others here at all Bill.  For me?  I simply won’t allow anyone near my family or on my property that wants to use any kind of tobacco products.  I detest it so.  It is a filthy, selfish, arrogant, poisoning, deadly, habit.  More often than not, people who smoke are selfish but worse yet, they are 100% inconsiderate of others.  Not only is the secondary smoke offensive, just their visual presence is disgusting.  I can’t even stand to look at anyone that is smoking.  It makes me want to rip the cigarette out of their face and then slap them silly.  But I know this might be a little unreasonable and others may think I would be over reacting a bit.  I suppose everyone would be right regarding this fantasy.  I only wonder if others are so inclined and are just too shy to tell those who are smoking in their presence to kindly stop it in an other than an asking tone. No one fishes with me that smokes.  I can’t even stand to see anyone do it even from a distance.  Absolutely drives me ballistic because the habit has killed old friends of mine.  I really like people who DON’T smoke.  I like the fact that in a parking area and along the stream I don’t have to look at thrown away cigarettes, their packages, or cigar bands or butts or whatever.  People who throw these items on the ground are ignorant ninkapoops.  People who have ‘the need’ to smoke are weak, undisciplined, selfish and they don’t regard the health risk to  others like their own wives, and will smoke in the house even if children live there.  A child can’t keep a man of great size from smoking in the same room, but I sure don’t mind telling the same dude to stop it or get lost if they get near me or my friends. It is a pathetic state of affairs. A single puff of smoke across a thirty or forty foot room will put my wife into the hospital fighting for her life.  It will literally cost me thousands of dollars.  It shuts her breathing down.  Smoking does affect others in anyone’s family that DON’T Smoke.  Anyone that smokes inside their home where another doesn’t smoke, is a bully.  I especially detest women who smoke.  If people want to go behind the barn out of my sight and smoke . . . I suppose that might be all right as long as they didn’t throw their butts down into the pig sty and get that dirty.  I particularly am concerned about highly intelligent hogs having to deal with addicts that smoke.  These substance abusers are not strong enough to control their own lives. They should not be allowed to influence others.  If I had a customer who isn’t smoking or doesn’t smoke browsing in my shop I sure as heck won’t allow anyone else in the area to do it. Bill?  If you are man enough to put a big NO SMOKING Signs all over your store, I’ll send all my non-smoking friends over to your place. Besides.  Who likes to handle money tainted with nicotine anyway?  We burn any we get.  How about you? yack! Mr. G. "Ah?  You’re not going to light that right now are you?" "Excuse me, could you wait until I leave before lighting that up?" "Don’t light that up in my presence please.  It will make me sick." "When did you start smoking, may I ask, before doing so now – here?" "My God man!  I didn’t know you were a smoker!" Or if in a vehicle and they sneak aboard before everyone realizes we have a smoker passenger . . . we simply pull over to the side of the road and say, "You must refrain from smoking during this entire trip or get out right now."  (with a smile, of course) ______ OTHER WAYS OF CONTROLLING SMOKERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ADD THEM HERE ______ 1) As you said Bill.  Sorry if my observations has offended anyone.

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Response:

I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar)

Tell us was it a Passing Cloud, I hope not, otherwise you know that means – someones been over here trying to take OUR fish — Bill

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory.

Let us take a broader view!  Consider this – whenever I smell a cigar I think of Christmas.  Who the Hell wants to think of Christmas during the fishing season? — Bill

Response:

If you smoke after flyfishing you’re doing it too fast… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of?

Perhaps…but I’ve found a better "trick".  My daughter purchased a nice flask to carry in my vest.  I fill it with a bit of alcoholic beverage and, when fishing is really slow, I sip away at my flask.  I don’t catch any more fish than I did before, but the slow times seem more enjoyable Barry

Response:

Vinnies smokes from dawn to dusk – I just wish it was tobacco….. :0) JE

Response:

Cigars not cigarettes. I’ve often been sickened on a lake when a buddy lights one up 50 yards away. They say it drives off insects. I’ve never actually seen a smoker catch a fish however. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Response:

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste?

…and I’ve caught a nice Lake George, NY Landlocked Salmon whose stomach contained a cigarette butt AND a foil gum wrapper.  Perhaps he wanted to freshen his breath after the smoke? But to the point of the thread…   I am a reformed smoker; I quit five years ago.   BUT, when I’m on my annual spring striper pilgrimage to Cape Cod, I smoke.   Two weeks later, when I get home, no more smoking.  (Same thing during a duck hunting vacation, too.)   And I remember when I quit, the times I wanted a smoke the most was when I was standing knee-deep in the Battenkill.  Most people who quit say they want one the worst after a meal, or when having a beer.  Not me.  I wanted one when I was fishing… and I don’t even remember ever smoking while I was fishing during my smoking years.  Funny. Bob Scott

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Hi All, I would say that a very small percentage of fly fisher persons smoke cigarettes. I think I would know as I can smell it on anyone that walks in my store and very few do. Most fly fisherman seem to be fairly intelligent and probably realize that if they want to live a long time they should not smoke cigarettes. Puffin’ on a cigar at stream side once and a while would kill you. Sorry if my observations has offended anyone. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Scott  No they don’t. But a cigar or a pipe helps to keep  the bugs off you while on the water. Or  so I have been told. As I smoke a pipe I find it dose  work  for me most of  the time.   I don’t know what I will do next week on vacation, the smokeing lamp is out in  the northern part of Michigan.  Tight lines

Response:

To be correctly turned out, a cigar is almost mandatory. Without the contamination of the fly by nicotine tainted fingers, ALL the fish that your fly came into contact with would, without exception, be fooled into taking and therefore caught. This would cause havoc, especially amongst the catch and kill anglers who would have to go home after only two or three minutes fishing. Streams, rivers and lakes would be denuded of fish, tackle manufacturers and fly tying businesses would go out of business, chaos would ensue! Do your duty Scott. Go and buy at least two packets of the cheapest and foulest smelling cigars you can find and protect our sport, fish and rivers. —

A couple of years ago, I caught a 3 1/2 lb’er at a small stillwater called ‘Northbank’ near Peterborough (UK).  When I spooned the fish, all I found was a cigarette butt (close, but no cigar).  Perhaps some of our fish are acquiring the taste? Tight lungs, — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘nuttll’ to reply by e-mail)

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

Response:

What’s the deal here with the cigaraettes and fishing. Is this some find of fishing trick I’m not aware of? Just curious.

     Caught us, Yes it was a secret, like getting a waitress to bring your meal after ordering, like spoting an 8 point white tail, or in the fishermans case the drag squealing with the strongest hit you’ve ever known in an otherwise fishless day. It always happens (in the last two cases) when the rod/rifle is cradled in the crook of the arm while you light up before heading home. IT’S THE RULE!                                                         John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

says… Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

I figure that’s mostly Powseland’s doing.  I’ve been around this board for a while and he never came out and said he supported anything PeTA advocates that I remember.  Jim probably sees a  PeTA member behind every rock. Like you, I found his general slant to be contrary to their agenda.  Go figure. Things are a little dull with Tim absent. </c

Response:

I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Do you have a problem with it? This all started with a c&r vs. c&k bs debate. Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. If you choose to release, good for you. If Tim kills, good for him as long as it is done legally. He claims to fish legally. I choose to do both this year. Last year I caught and released well over 1,000 trout and intentionally killed 0. I’m sure some later died from their "experience" with my fly. If you subscribe to the 15% mortality figure that is bandied about, than over 150 fish died for the sake of my  selfish pleasure. This year I plan on enjoying some on my table and to slow down on the quantity c&r game. I know this decision will actually let more trout live….go figure…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself. I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter.  I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best.  It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing.   Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person?  :-)  I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people.  :-O Later,     – Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse.  Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters. That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter.  What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that.  I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

– The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

Response:

Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   -Mark

Response:

Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?  

You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your on nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry . —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

: : All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is : his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   Well, I’m not one of the ruffled one’s since I’m usually on his side, but I don’t really fish that often since moving from Colorado to the southern desert of New Mexico, so I can’t report on anything I did or learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this spring I *will* be heading into the Gila to catch up on catching trout. If all goes well my burro will be packing my gear  ;-) JonCook.

Response:

<snip : learned. I’m spending more of my "leisure" computer time on horse and : donkey discussions, as that’s where my interest lies for now. But this I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or donkey, wouldn’t you?  Do they feed on the surface? —                        http://members.tripod.com/~trunculo/index

Response:

Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   -Mark

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter

Response:

says… All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure. Hmmm, I’m not sure T-Bone’s departure is temporary. After admitting that he is a PETA supporter, he pretty much blew his cover. And credibility.

Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. Hence, your statement about his credibility is your own misguided fallacy.

Response:

: : I’m guessing you’d want to go with a 9 or 10 weight for a horse or : donkey, wouldn’t you? Heck even an 8 is sufficient, but you have to go back to fiberglass, because the fast-action graphite stings too much when you whack ‘em. JonCook.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did I miss something? I don’t recall him admitting to be a PETA supporter/member. Yes you missed it. I don’t have the time to dig it out of Deja News. Why don’t you? I would appreciate it greatly. To help you out, he admitted to it just before he left r.o.f.f. BTW, Moe Skeeter is alive and well in other newsgroups. Go to In fact, his fishing activities, be they what they may, are in direct conflict with the PETA agenda of outlawing *ALL* fishing. I suspect he once fished but gave it up years ago. He nows uses his past experience to dupe real anglers like yourself.

I believe I found the article you are referring to, I’ll paste it below… For the record, it doesn’t say he is a PETA supporter, but that he is an animal rights supporter.  I personally don’t believe that he has ulterior motives, I think he is doing what he believes to be best.  It’s just that he thinks that what he believes is the only correct belief and what anyone else believes is completely wrong and is disgracing a fish and fly-fishing.   Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if Tim, Muskie, and Vandenman are the same person?  :-)  I don’t know if I’d be more frightened to find out they were the same person or three different people.  :-O Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for Intel rec.outdoors.fishing .fly) Newsgroups:   rec.outdoors.fishing.fly No…if it wasn’t for the mellowness brought on by an occasional good homebrew, I’d be much worse.  Beleive me. On second thought, I agree with you. You do seem to have a lot of hate, anger and fear, which is quite common in AR-supporters.

That’s because you piss us both off…<g… That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter.  What wildlife love among us is not ? There are some things that are wrong…like the guy that buried those puppies alive…we need AR laws so that we can prosecute bastards like that.  I have simply drawn the line and "Pure C&R fishing" happens to live on that side of the line which includes other ‘pure sport’ hunting and fishing such as Trophy Big Game Hunting and Prarie Dog shoots. We should not kill, maim, harass or cause undue stress to wild animals…unless we plan to eat them or otherwise use them…which is clearly covered as acceptible. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

where I live trout season never closes  -  sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Moe asked me to ask you if there are any trout left?

Response:

says… I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand?

The part where he states he is a card carrying member for PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, or to clarify it further, PETA. You said he was a PETA member/supporter….you intentionally misled the group, hence THE BIG LIE….save your stories for the river where it is acceptable to stretch a tale.

Response:

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.  

no – I’ve just been very busy … 25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make.

where I live trout season never closes  -  sort of an endless summer (just lots and lots of rain in certain months!) Peter

Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Hey Ralphie, I thought you had gone on sabbatical too.   25 days, 2 hours and 41 minutes before trout season opens, I’m not going to make. Peter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

yeah .. . he needed a break. But don’t ya’ think he might be lurking right now enjoying, all the ‘where’s Tim – I miss all the fascinatin’ dust ups he precipitated ‘ thinkin’ … hey they really do love me!" and preparing for a dramatic return! Then he’ll begin repeating himself all over again. Who said the LP is dead? Oh that’s just Tim – thought it was time to dust off my old 45’s. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

Jon this really cracked me up! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that,  I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two. I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

After I posted something, I enjoyed sitting back and waiting for the novel way Tim would string curses together, to describe it and me. But it was time for him to take a rest as he was begining to repeat himself. Peter

Response:

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh? Peter

Face it guys, You all miss Tim with his rantings and and provocations. He has helped to keep people reading the group in times when nothing else in the group was worth reading. Discussions about which areas are hot and not, where to fish and how well we just did in this stream at this hole on this day with this fly just don’t happen in this group. I can’t blame anyone for that,  I don’t want the whole world to know the prime spots I fish either. But in times when there is very little trout fly fishing going on (such as last winter), Timbo helped to spark an ember or two.  I thought the best was the thread about the ass backwards lawyer who wanted to abolish Tim from the group. (kind of looks like it worked in retrospect). "end commercial fishing on all salmonids" Cheers

Response:

Well, I’ve avoided responding to Jim P. for years now, but I see it’s about time… : I stand uncorrected, no mention of PETA. : : Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" Well, again, no mention of PETA… : What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? So now you change the question from your original one… : Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something : else entirely. If you’ve actually read the threads that have transpired, you’d know that Tim’s definition of "animal rights" is nowhere near what your definition is…so quit applying your narrow AR==PETA definition. It doesn’t fit. You all have twisted Tim’s words through the years, forcing him to make his own phrases, like "pure catch and release" — and then you assail him for it. Well, here’s the perfect example. Everyone except Jim knows that Tim did not mean the PETA agenda when he said "animal rights". : Tim kills for his table….he’s not the first nor will he be the last. : : So he says. Actually, I think it is just a lie. Timbo probably was an : angler in the past but he is no longer. And that just goes to show you that you live in your own little world. I’ve personally seen him bonk fish in the last year. You have no clue about what you write. I’ve said it before — with all the analogies Tim has made of fishing with hunting (i.e., providing food through sport, not playing trout golf), you oughtta be his staunchest supporter…if you really are a hunter…then again, maybe you are the one with the hidden PETA agenda… JonCook.

Response:

Quote: "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. TimW" What part of "Animal Rights supporter" don’t you understand? Tim admits to a love for animals….I have no problem with that. Neither do I. It is called animal welfare. Animal *rights* is something else entirely. Do you have a problem with it? I have a problem with AR, not AW.

I USED to think there wasn’t any difference between Animal Rights and animal welfare. However, I’ve learned that when rights are given to animals, instead of animal welfare which protects them with laws requiring humane treatment, a whole nasty can of worms is opened up. It seems like a subtle difference but think of the consequences of assigning rights to animals.  A few to start: no eating of animal flesh, no pets or domesticated animals, no leather, no milk, ice cream or cheese, no animal research, etc. Willi

Response:

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh?

Peter:  Good observation, at least because it agrees with mine!  That is, I have also noticed the emergence of some new posters since the C&R/C&K threads have died away.  In any event, you have to give Timbo credit for this – even his absence can provoke controversy, as well as the longest thread here in weeks. Mark Faulkner

Response:

I didn’t find the absence of the regulars as intriguing as the sudden emergence of a lot of new (or occasional) posters. He certainly stokes the fires of debate in ROFF, but the heat seems also to keep many away.  An interesting trade-off, eh?

That kind of "debate" does keep people away.  I checked out this newsgroup about three years ago and quickly decided it wasn’t what I wanted to read every day.   I think it’s a lot friendlier now, not that Tim was ever unfriendly to me… on the contrary, actually; he e-mailed me answers to some of my questions and was quite encouraging. Ironically, it’s messages like this one I’m typing that I don’t want to see, so I’m done typing now!  I want to read about Fly Fishing!   Leave the debating to the after-fishing pub visits. Bob Scott

Response:

Dave Tatosian wrote    "FiddleAway" wrote You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

Sorry ta ruffle your feathers, ol’ fart! …  8-) —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

From the Deep South New Zealand

Response:

Michael K Skorey wrote Just a random thought here, but does it take T-BONE’S endless rantings and ravings to prompt some of you regulars (you know who you are) to post?? All of you have been curiously quiet since his temporary departure.  Is his nonsense all it takes to ruffle your feathers?   You can find out whether your hypothesis is true by simply stating of your o[w]n nonsense. Just make sure you fire it up with equal parts of controversy, arrogance and curmudgeonry .

HEY! Leave us curmudgeons out of this. Walker couldn’t qualify as a curmudgeon on a bet! /dave (Charter Member of CU – "Curmudgeons Unlimited")

Response:

Question:

We have set up a free site where flyfishermen can find other flyfishermen who have services to offer (Financial Planners, Business Consultants, Landscapers, etc.). We also offer links to sites we like as well as reviews of products or destinations we enjoy. Fly Shops can list free if they offer discounts to our viewers. We will accept products or invitations to destinations but will only offer reviews if we like them. Stop by and take a look. http://www.outofchaos.com/flyfishing.html Tight Lines, Dave Fischbach Charlie Levin

Response:

  I have a web site that may be of interest to some guys out there.  I am selling off part of my flyshop to anyone of interest.  There are good opportunities to not only let you buy at cost but also for any entrepeneures to make a few bucks on their investment too.  If this is something that will work for your site let me know .  We could make return links and also probably do a posting on your site. e-mail address.                                  Thank You,                                                  Bret

Response:

Question:

I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

Response:

I had my old medalist stolen out of my car after .  Is there anywhere in CT (or in NYC) that sells fly-fishing gear of that sort? thanks, Ben

Hi Ben I suggest you contact Hook and Hackle at 800-552-8342. On page 5 of their catalog they list the standard Pflueger and also two rim control models. They are in Plattsburg, NY. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com Tiemco quality hooks, under $6.00 pkg/50

Response:

Question:

Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands

Response:

 Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands.

Hello Herman, There are plenty of "middle-range" fly rods to chose from.  I would suggest on of the companies that gives a lifetime warranty.  Some of these rods include the Sage DS series and Redington.  They run about $255 for the Sage 590 DS kit which includes rod, reel, line and backing.  The Redington rods run about $105.   Good luck with your fishing and Congratulations on the new child. Paul Johnson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands

OK, good luck with your boy/girl?, anyway (you should already think abot looking for a second rod, I think it makes a great gift for=  the first birthday). OK, here some suugestions for you. Since I appreciate SAGE fly rods very much (that’s simply because they are = the best performing fly rods made here in the USA) I would suggest to look at their rods. Since you are looking for something in the=  middle price range have a closer look at the DS series- they are in the mid price range and perform real well. OK, SAGE makes faste= r and more powerful rods, but they cost twice as much. The DS series has a medium fast action with still lots of backbone and is ver= y pleasant to cast. They have a 5wt in 8 and 9ft, also in 4 piece (4piece is maybe worth a thought if you travel with your rod- e.g.=  graylingfishing in denmark (Velje Au etc…) or the mountain lakes in Jotunheimen in Norway!). Since you are in europe you will probably also see european rod makers. Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling=  series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!). If you have the = chance cast a M3, thats their high end (unfortunately high price) rod series – IMO the best on the market (it’s very similar to the = SAGE SP series, only  better!). If you like the slow rods more look at Hardys Favourite FT (the FT is important since it means that this is the fast action series, = the normal Favourite is too slow). They are not real fast rods, but comparatively fast rods for a Hardy rod. In general Hardy rods a= re relatively slow rods but they cast like a dream. But don’t try to pick up 20 m of line with them, they won’t do the job (OK, with=  special pick up techniques you can overcome this problem to a certain point.- They are nice dry fly rods or small nymph rods but no= t pleasant to fish with streamers or other heavy stuff and they are to slow for fast alpine sreams.). Hope that helps                   Thomas

Response:

In a message about ‘Re: New rod??’, Thomas Urbig Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!).

You gotta be kidding! The RST rods I’ve tried can’t come close to any Sage’s shadow. RST rods feels very unresponsive as well as extremly stiff. For affordable rods, I’d try the Penns. Haven’t tried the new Redingtons. The first series didn’t impress me. CU, Jay Lee (Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands)

Response:

Hi,   Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" which really is a bargain at $70. Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? Cheers,         Pete. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

Response:

: Hi, :   Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion : on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). : Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" : which really is a bargain at $70. Yep. : Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? The 4-piece travel rods are a fabulous value. I haven’t tried the higher-end models. –mike

Response:

  I own several st.croix flyrods. for the past 6yrs i think there great rods for the money. i’ve had one break while salmon fishing.my dealer sent it back and they sent me a naw one at no cost.and the rod they sent me was the next step up from the one i had break.so for me for the money there the rod to have.

Response:

Question:

: I`m looking for free stretches of River that I can `fish a fly` : around the Hampshire area of England. Tried Woodmill, Southampton : but no Trout rising. Perhaps I will try to build a U.K. database : if there is enough interest? : Cheers. I imagine it’s highly unlikely you will find any free fly fishing in the UK, let alone in Hampshire. There may be the odd municipal stretch, though it probably would not be worthwhile. Still, if you discover any do let me know. Nigel — Sussex University, England

Response:

I`m looking for free stretches of River that I can `fish a fly` around the Hampshire area of England. Tried Woodmill, Southampton but no Trout rising. Perhaps I will try to build a U.K. database if there is enough interest? Cheers. —                    Clivey

Response:

Question:

I was in Indonesia and Thailand two years ago but didn’t bring my rod. Going back for my honeymoon…any advice?   I did lots of snorkeling but looking for recommendations…flies, places. Will trade for good fishing stories and east coast goodies. Dan Foster Dan Foster

Response:

I was in Indonesia and Thailand two years ago but didn’t bring my rod. Going back for my honeymoon…any advice?  

Yeah, don’t forget your rod…. — | PO Box 1510      | MCI:   mnewman (333-1196) | Hell is   | | Saipan MP 96950  | Phone: +(670)234-7726     | Saipan?   | | Mariana Islands  | FAX:   +(670)234-3022     |           |

Response: