Question:

……the greta cover-up… you might wanna work on that a bit…..

Ya’ll are a hard crowd!  I think you should ease up on Petah……he’s taken just about enough heat for his garboed spelling.     Wolfgang hey, us immigrants gotta stick togethah.

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PS I usually fail, but that’s the whole point. L — Lazarus Cooke

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of those rare, magic moments in fly fishing, out with greta friends on a perfect stream, Greta? My cousin wisely married the man who owns the house on the Greta – the house by the bridge on the river in the north of England that Cotman painted. Sadly I’ve never managed to fish in the river, but I’m glad to see a ROFF post on it. More please! Lazarus

        dear mr. cooke:  i am pleased to represent mr. peetah charles, late of the royal air force, in all his domestic relations…um, matters.         this is to advise that any further (farther?) references to the woman formerly known as "greta" will result in our immediate action at law, wherein your private parts will first be exposed (while at rest) to several cheerleaders from the university of south carolina, followed by their immediate severance from your person.         it is our earnest hope that this caution will suffice to silence any further (yep, that’s it) references to the aforementioned lady, her heirs, assigns, or private investigators. yr. obt. svt. a.wayne harrison,  atty at law.

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PS I usually fail, but that’s the whole point. L

So do I I hate to spoil the greta thing you and wayno got going but my greta spelling is only surpassed in gretaness by the inability of my greta spell checker to properly correct greta. I hated to put in this correction with wayno in full legal warhoop, but I’ve heard some stories about those Tarheel cheerleaders  . . . Didn’t want to be responsible . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Which has since made me wonder – do people actually pull off the dead upstream dry fly cast to a visible fish in gin clear water?

In Vermont many of the small brookie streams I fish the only way is to fish straight up. I walk up some streams for over 8 hours. Sometimes I can get up-and-across cast, but mostly, due to foliage, the cast it straight up and down the river. Most of the line floats and lands on the water where I get strikes. Isn’t low pressure a wonderful thing? Gary

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petah, petah…old chap…those were SOUTH carolina cheerleaders – "i.e., "gamecocks" – wayno referenced.  it’s ok…you’re still well within limits of literacy for us over 50 geezers.  but, the greta cover-up… you might wanna work on that a bit.

South – North, what’s a little geography between friends. jeff (who’s observed your gretaness with the tattooed bighair wimmen at the union co. sportsman’s club)

still pissed that I swiped your date, eh? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

petah, petah…old chap…those were SOUTH carolina cheerleaders – "i.e., "gamecocks" – wayno referenced.  it’s ok…you’re still well within limits of literacy for us over 50 geezers.  but, the greta cover-up… you might wanna work on that a bit. jeff (who’s observed your gretaness with the tattooed bighair wimmen at the union co. sportsman’s club) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS I usually fail, but that’s the whole point. L So do I I hate to spoil the greta thing you and wayno got going but my greta spelling is only surpassed in gretaness by the inability of my greta spell checker to properly correct greta. I hated to put in this correction with wayno in full legal warhoop, but I’ve heard some stories about those Tarheel cheerleaders  . . . Didn’t want to be responsible . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I hated to put in this correction with wayno in full legal warhoop, but I’ve heard some stories about those Tarheel cheerleaders  . . .

the university brass had astroturf installed at the football stadium to keep ‘em from grazing during halftime. i don’t quite understand the decision really, considering that was the only entertainment value with a NC football ticket. waldo

Response:

Which has since made me wonder – do people actually pull off the dead upstream dry fly cast to a visible fish in gin clear water?

I had a casting lesson years ago from Andy Murray, the Hardy casting expert, who said firmly that it was perfectly possible with a 9′ leader only. I use a longer one – more to avoid drag than anything else, probably about 12′ all told, (ie inc bit of thick mono tied to line, then tippet tied to 9′ tapered leader) but it’s what I do – on the Itchen & Test, which are pretty clear. Not DEAD upstream, unless I’m casting right handed from the right bank, but yes, then. Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

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One of those rare, magic moments in fly fishing, out with greta friends on a perfect stream,

Greta? My cousin wisely married the man who owns the house on the Greta – the house by the bridge on the river in the north of England that Cotman painted. Sadly I’ve never managed to fish in the river, but I’m glad to see a ROFF post on it. More please! Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke

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<SNIP a foot above the trout. He nailed the fly, jumped once and threw the hook. He was maybe 10 to 12 inches long. It was fun and satisfying to finally hook it but a bit anticlimactic. Willi

I find it very satisfying to catch fish from difficult lies. I don

Question:

BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. Does this mean I get a percentage of the gross sales? Moby. The dry wit of ages….

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I seem to have developed a cult following….  Must be my irresistable charm and stuff. If you had "irresistable charm and stuff" then "cult following" would be spelt slightly differently… Alvey

You broke me up with that one.

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BTW- Moby, I’ve killfiled you based on all your moans and groans. Have a great life tho!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

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I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100%

of the time? Yeah… just ask some of the Aussie cricket team. : ) Nick

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time? The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

It’s certainly enough for me to remove a poster from the kill-file It’s probably the one thing that separates the decent ng members from the riff-raff: the ability to apologise and admit mistakes. Although I have nfi which particular one you’re apologising for. Moby.

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For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Apologise to people in this group ?  You are not anevil bitch but a stupid one

Response:

For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For those ppl to whom I have been an evil bitch…. I am sorry.   There is no excuse for the way I ripped into you.  No matter how much I disagreed with your posts, I should not have ’spoken’ to you in that manner. I suspect that those who should receive this apology have added me to their killfile, but no matter, I will have to rely upon word of mouth. I certainly don’t think this is the last time I will have to apologise to somebody for being ‘evil’ but hey…where’s the fun in 100% manners 100% of the time?

The ability to apologise is a rare (and treasured) thing in newsgroups. Good onya. Now all you need is a catchy sig and you’ll be away… Alvey In Brisbane, unable to think of a catch sig right at this point in time.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

I knew the title was too good to be true. You got me Oswald! Rourkster

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Well, all summer I have laughed at the Aussies as they lost relentlessly to the Kiwis, whom I rated as third rate. Boy, what I fool I look now. The Kiwis have just beaten world class cricketers England in a series somewhere. While the Aussies seemed to be addicted to losing to the Kiwis the Poms never lay down and nor did the easybeat South Africans. Now that New Zealand have tri-dicked the Aussies and dished up good serves to the Protias and won a series, albeit at home, to a classy side like the pom, I have to confess that New Zealand seems to have found 11 blokes with what it takes to play the game well. Well done to them, let’s hope it catches on and we learn to beat the Aussies at real sports, like fly fishing. – - – http://www.crackersport.com

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Question:

I picked up a fly tying kit and tied my first fly… boy.. is it ugly !!! I think I shall call it ‘Dan’s Swamp Critter’. Why wife asked what it was.. I said "a fly". She said, "I know, but all of your other fly’s look like something". Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ? Thank in advance, -Dan-

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Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ?

        Joseph Bates, Jr.’s book on fly tying and fly fishing streamers has just be republished by Stackpole books. This is the most complete streamer pattern, history, fishing technique book on the subject.

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(snip) Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

How about a tad more particulars on which feathers to use and how to prepare them?  Sounds like a plethera of very useful, inexpensive material here.  Specifically, what patterns of flys? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

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Wolfie, You got that right, I went wild when I got my first Ringneck Pheasant rooster skin. I even invented a couple of flies which I still use today.  As for the Phoenix skin, the last one of those rose from the ashes along with G’s rods. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns <snip Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

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Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

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I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are a source of feathers commonly used as a substitute for jungle cock eyes for us po folks. Wolfgang who’s yer daddy, clarice?

Response:

Hi Group A friend of mine swears by Starling feathers. Doesn’t show his flies around a lot but I’ve seen his rod bent a few times. Good price too! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F. Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

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Mike, They are European Starlings.  Some damn fool imported them along with the English Sparrow and they have destroyed farm crops ever since.  A bunch of them even brought down an airliner.  I am glad to hear they are good for something. Ernie "Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

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Congrats!  The real thrill will come when you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself! Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

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Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

…..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

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…..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

        fucking wonderful wayno

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since. Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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reads like a TA (Tiers Anonymous) add.. Herman …..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.    Cheers, Herman    Herman Nijland    Daytime webmaster    Lifetime flyfisher

I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside.

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Stan, growing up in Newport News, VA we learned early on the Purple Martin housing and Starling competition was SERIOUS business.  Purple Martins are key players in mosquito control.  For most people in the South, Starlings are a disposable pest. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

….I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin…..

The Lady Amherst is another variety of pheasant.  In my manic tying material acquisition phase I managed to get complete skins from 4 or 5 species of pheasant.  Most of them are quietly moldering in a box somewhere.  Each of them offers feathers for a few specific patterns, but aside from that they are just pretty to look at.  Much better to buy loose feathers for your gray ghosts, etc.  The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns.  Virtually all of them have common uses.  Of course, one can always experiment with the lovely feathers from all the others, by my own experience and that of all the other tiers I used to hang with suggests that the results will typically be a lot better for show than for catching fish.  Still, practicality has little to do with the whole process, does it?    :) Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….

Done deal! Bruce (here kitty kitty!) Thomsen

Response:

I’ll second Franks demand. Since practice makes perfect, you improve your tying skills. You are going to half to tie 25 or 30 of a single pattern and you’re likely to see an improvement from as you go. You are going to have some excellent examples to go by. I saved all the flies that I got in the first swap (and will with the current one as well). I tied up many of the flies and fished with the replicas but saved the originals. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Waynw, Amherst is a breed of pheasant like Golden and Ringneck.  The mink coat sounds good, you are the only tier I know who is starting out with one, . Ernie "Wayne Hart" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. Wayne

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Olive Biot Nymph (legs whch may or may not be utilized).  The book on fly tying I got from ezflyfish.com (your source for great fly fishing products at fair prices and superlative service) has a number of patterns using Starling feathers and silk thread (probably UK pattern origins). — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Question:

I really don’t want to jump into this fray, you state in your thread that there are 1/2 a million registered and even more unregistered ORV’s. First, shame on those who don’t register their ORV’s.  I have to subsidize this activity with higher local taxes for lost revenues on their illegal activity.

Hi David,  First, there is absolutely no requirement to register OHVs as far as I know. The only registrations are from new vehicle purchases, where the vehicle is registered to allow warranty recording and for insurance purposes. Some states require registration fees to operate in some riding areas – but that’s all. If I buy a used dirt motorcycle or ATV, which is not street-legal, there is NO requirement to register it, nor is there a place TO register it. So accusing someone of not doing what you are uninformed about is a moot point. Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered.

First, there are nearly the same number of motorcycles and ATVs in this country as the number of hikers you note. The 1/2 million ORV number is units purchased every year. Second, the camping number would include ORVers, so could not be used as an argument against ORVs as you attempt. Third, when I go riding, I see almost NO hikers, ever. It isn’t that hikers are hiding from me as I go by as Jeff would have you believe, it’s simply that there are not as many people actually hiking as claimed. If many more ORV’s are going unregistered…what does that say about the caliber of character of the owners?  Does this mean I don’t have to register my car anymore?  My boat?

ORVs are not street legal, your car is. ORVs do not operate on the water, therefore no boating registration required. Are you really so uninformed that you don’t know that an ATV does not need a license plate? BTW — I’m not a total moron,

I didn’t say you were, just hard to believe you’d accuse ORVers of "not paying for registrations" when none is required. II am sure some states do not require any registration of ORV’s and I am not for the complete removal of them.

Thanks buddy! Ron

Response:

… Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered. First, there are nearly the same number of motorcycles and ATVs in this country as the number of hikers you note. The 1/2 million ORV number is units purchased every year.

… You are such a lying sack of shit, Ron! (Oops! Now Ron von Braun, the self-described rocket scientist, is going to call me Jeff Vandeman again, because, when people disagree with me, I call them "liars.") You say above that there are 40 million "(off-road) motorcycles and ATVs in this country," meaning the USA, and you say above that 1/2 million are purchased every year. Right? Right. Read it yourself. So, even if there was no ramp-up to current sales levels, it would have taken 80 years to reach that number of units in the country (40 million / 1/2 million per year = 80 years). That, of course, assumes that every single unit sold since 1920 is still tearing up the trail. Jeez-Louise, Ron! You are the worst liar I have ever seen. The WORST!! You don’t even agree with yourself. Maybe YOU are Ron Vandeman. Dontchano, you could end all of this humiliation and damage to the cause of getting you boys some good sacrafice land, by closing that Wiseguys’ Book of Truths (WBT), and starting to speak English, and with some integrity. However, if you really must tough it out, remember that it isn’t enough to follow:    - "Don’t be modest with your lies," WBT 5:3 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-3    - "Assert numbers," WBT 5:10 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-10. You must also observe:    - "Avoid facts and logic," WBT 5:14 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-14. And, if you check out the ever popular "Never admit to your lie," WBT 5:5 at html://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-5, I guess you won’t be replying to this 80-year lie, will you, Ron? Yuk yuk yuk. 80 years, indeed. You boys are sooooooooo lame. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

Jeff the truth-twister again: You are such a lying sack of shit, Ron! and Jeez-Louise, Ron! You are the worst liar I have ever seen. The WORST!!

I cannot type here what I think of you, Jeff, however I can tell you that the absolute biggest untruths are on your page (the "WBT" page), and those of you trying to invent conflicts between trail users. You say above that there are 40 million "(off-road) motorcycles and ATVs in this country," meaning the USA, and you say above that 1/2 million are purchased every year. Right? Right. Read it yourself. So, even if there was no ramp-up to current sales levels, it would have taken 80 years to reach that number of units in the country (40 million / 1/2 million per year = 80 years). That, of course, assumes that every single unit sold since 1920 is still tearing up the trail.

I see. So this, even tho: A person can buy used and it will not be recorded A person can buy more than one OHV per year A person can buy a 4X4 pickup, but you forgot to add those A person can buy a 4X4 SUV, but you forgot to add those For instance, one person – me, owns 17 OHVs, all by myself! I have numerous friends who own as many OHVs as myself, which is kinda the norm (owning more than one OHV per person or household). You just hate the fact that there may be AN AWFUL LOT OF US OHVers, don’t you!?! And more coming every year! But, to prove myself, I’ll dig up some statistics and post ‘em, as I want to find out more precise numbers myself. Your worst enemy, Ron

Response:

… I cannot type here what I think of you, Jeff,

I couldn’t care less what you think of me, Ron. This isn’t about anyone’s hysteria. It’s about facts and logic, and about influencing the backcountry recreation policy of the US Park Service, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management. But, if it means that much to you to express yourself, just spit it out. What’s one more count? You have already assaulted me twice, probably three times — they’re in deja.com and the other archiving services for any public prosecutor to read. You probably can plea bargain four counts down to concurrent sentences, anyway. however I can tell you that the absolute biggest untruths are on your page (the "WBT" page)

… Instead of passing the usual gas, why don’t you:      [1] quote just a dozen verses from the Wiseguys’ Book of Truths (http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html) with which you disagree,      [2] disavow each of them separately, saying unequivocally that only a real dirtball would employ such democracy-defeating sleaze, and      [3] challenge me to post even one rec.backcountry quote in which you employed the Wiseguy wisdom in each verse which you have disavowed. If what you have said above is true, that should be easy enough. So post it or zip it, Ron. Post it or zip it. Your worst enemy, Ron

I’m not intimidated at all by your would-be bullying,      Ron Brabander, last known address      400 Lakeshore Dr      North Sioux City, SD 57049      Phone: 605-232-8961      (name and address to be confirmed by subpoena to America Online)      (address to be confirmed by subpoena to South Dakota unemployment department) last known employer      Gateway Computers      (photo in personnel file, available by subpoena) You’ve got me confused with someone else, Ron — someone who gives a rat’s ass about your silly opinion of me and someone who can’t return suppressing fire across his front porch until the uniformed police arrive. BTW, Ron Brabander, are you ready to have that gratuitous "Your worst enemy" closing read to your jury? Think about it … then get a grip. Don’t fantasize a personal feud from a backcountry recreation policy discussion. You can’t win the feud either. —— Examples of Ron Brabander’s threats of battery follow —— … Jeff, you are a real loser. Let me know if you want to meet and have me tell you that in person. Ron

Dennis Harris intolerantly says: … and YOU need to get over it, get off the machines, and get some exercise to work off your lard butts.   Lets meet so you can say this to my face. I’ll change your mind about ORV users being lard butts in a big hurry. … Ron

—- End threats —- — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

"…I see, so you feel well over half a million registered (and many more unregistered) ORV…" I really don’t want to jump into this fray, you state in your thread that there are 1/2 a million registered and even more unregistered ORV’s. First, shame on those who don’t register their ORV’s.  I have to subsidize this activity with higher local taxes for lost revenues on their illegal activity. Second, 40 million people hike each year, and 24 million camp according to current available data, making hiking the number one outdoor activity and camping number five — these stats add up A LOT more than 1/2 a million and even more than 5 million if I assume that 90% of active ORV’s are unregistered. If many more ORV’s are going unregistered…what does that say about the caliber of character of the owners?  Does this mean I don’t have to register my car anymore?  My boat?  Paying for those registrations may have made the government backdown on these issues.  Hurt the government in their wallets, they will go for the jugular – no way to enforce registration, ban operation outright on government/public lands.  Seems as through the community is causing it’s own problems. BTW — I’m not a total moron, I am sure some states do not require any registration of ORV’s and I am not for the complete removal of them.  They serve their purpose – and presently there are more miles of ORV trails then roads in the United States…

Response:

Jeff Mick gets mad with: This isn’t about anyone’s hysteria. It’s about facts and logic, and about influencing the backcountry recreation policy of the US Park Service, Forest Service, and Bureau of Land Management.

Yes it is, Jeff. But in your attempts to influence the public through this forum, you have shown nothing but untruths twisted to fit your agenda, which I have taken issue with. What facts? What logic? All you have done is proven you can sink lower than I. Don’t fantasize a personal feud from a backcountry recreation policy discussion. You can’t win the feud either.

Then why haven’t you trotted out for discussion even one "fact" that shows ORV use really is harmful? Because I would win? Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury

So, Marshall Dillpickle, will I be hung by the neck until dead, dead, dead? Ron

Response:

Following up my own post. Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury

After worrying about this overnight, I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken, Ron

Response:

I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken,

Yea, but trip reports, gear opinions and other moderate brief discussions on BC topics shouldn’t be a concern for any of us.  I’m adding ORV to my filter list for r.b.  Some of us will never agree, and that’s fine, life goes on as we pursue our own favorite activities and support our own special interest groups. — Breathe in deep powder, exhale bad turns. -Victor’s Stony Yoga kknisely at parkcity dot com

Response:

Following up my own post. Then Jeff threatens me with: assaulted public prosecutor subpoena police jury After worrying about this overnight, I’ve decided that this is scary. Posting my info on the internet is too. Bailing out of this newsgroup like a big chicken, Ron

The criminal justice process SHOULD be threatening and scary to someone like Ron. He is both easy to find and a slam dunk conviction for any brand new assistant district attorney. Considering the repeated threats of physical beatings which he has made to me and others on rec.backcountry in the last several days, being scared is an unexpected flash of good judgement by Ron. If anyone cares to see the post which Ron’s self-serving editing boiled down to the quote above, check deja com at    - In the subject  box, paste the subject of this thread, <Re: Action alert -ORVs are the best!,    - in the Forum box, paste the name of this newsgroup, <rec.backcountry    - click the Search bar    - click on Thread (near the upper left corner)    - open the message from me dated 02/01/00 (Msg 6), and there you have it. Ron’s total lack of integrity when quoting and replying to newsgroup messages is the one of his many character defects which I will miss least. On the matter of (me, Jeff) "Posting (Ron’s) info on the internet is (scary) too.", let’s be clear about the facts:    [1] I’ve been patient with Ron, because he was the ideal vehicle (no pun intended) for exposing Wiseguy-speak vocabulary and tactics. I couldn’t have fashioned a better sock puppet if sockpuppetry were my style.    [2] Ron introduced the meat space dimension to a previously cyber space discussion, when he repeatedly threatened beatings and shared his fantasy about me being hit by a truck and badly injured (see deja.com thread above, Msg 1, last line).    [3] Having introduced the meat space dimension, Ron apparently balked at including his meat space identity, which he knows is needed by law enforcement to apprehend him.    [4] Ron, not I (Jeff), posted his apprehension info to the Internet. For example, he posted his last name several times (search dated 6/15/99). For another example, look up "Ron Brabander" in Infospace.com at http://www.infospace.com/. (There are a lot of better ways to find meat space info on the Web, but these are a couple of the baby-talk ways.) There is a lot of cross-confirming info which points (almost) conclusively to Ron Brabander as previously identified. IMPORTANT: Of course, there still is a tiny, tiny chance that post, so confirmation is absolutely required before any meat space action, to protect an innocent person. In summary, Ron has shown himself to be a man of zero integrity, a failed bully, a world-class blowhard, and finally a whiner. Until Mel disappears, so we need another gimme to illustrate Wiseguy-speak, I won’t miss Ron at all. YMMV. But, I really doubt that Ron is gone from rec.backcountry. I, for one, expect to see a new poster from AOL within a couple of hours using an AOL screen name including words like share, American, freedom, or similar Wiseguy-speak. A skunk can’t change his stripe. Still, I hope he retreats from rec.backcountry to some Wiseguy newsgroup, thereby simultaneously raising the average intelligence and level of discourse in both newsgroups. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

I say again, Give this cutesie salutation crap a rest, Ron.

Sure Jeff Vandeman, I’ll get right on that. Heh heh. Well, Dr. von Braun, it looks like you have been under a rocket once too many

times without your hard hat. Gosh, that’s pretty funny Jeff. For you, anyway. That is evidenced by the fact that you are ignoring the Wiseguy’s Book of

Truths’ advice to avoid discussion of facts (because you will certainly lose) at http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/wbt.html#5-8. There are no facts on that site. I checked. The 95% number, which you deny above, is about half way down the Forest Service page at http://www.srs.fs.fed.us/strategicplan/view_and_submit_comment.asp?ID=18. I quote, "Almost 95 percent of the U.S. population that is 16 years old and

older participate in some form of outdoor recreation. The most popular outdoor recreation activities (measured in number of days) are walking, nonconsumptive wildlife activities, biking, sightseeing, nonpool swimming, fishing, family gathering, and picnicking." All of the activities stated by the Forest Service are what you Wiseguys would call "hiking" Swimming is hiking? No. Fishing is hiking? No. You are a nut case? YOU BETCHA! You will note two things in the Forest Service information above: [1] all of

the "most popular outdoor recreation activities" are naturally-quiet, naturally-paced activities (except perhaps some part of the undefined "biking"), and [2] no off-road RVing is included there, though it is explicitly tracked by the Forest Service. Could off-road RVing be a fringe activity for a few sociopathic misfits in search of disapproval from parental figures? Naaaah. I see, so you feel well over half a million registered (and many more unregistered) ORV owners are "sociopathic misfits", because they just won’t do what you want them to do. It’s great that you prove to all that you are truly a wacko, exactly like your brother Mike Vandeman. I don’t expect you to reply to this, Ron, much less with an apology and a

"Thank you for the education." BWAA HA HA HA! Speaking of funny stuff, I heard where Jeff used to be a girl, until she had the operation. You know, an "Addadicktome". But I do expect you to sooner or later realize that Wisguy-speak doesn’t fly

here or at the Forest Service. I see, you speak for the entire US Forest Service, now. Um, do they know that? Have a nice day, rocket scientist.

Watch out for that truck Jeff! Ooh, too late. What a mess. Ron

Response:

Question:

I don’t want to sully the newsgroup with "tell me where’ stuff, but I have a special request of sorts.  I recently remarried a CA lady whose roots are in the East bay area.  We are going to visit her sister in June and her (now my…) 10 yr old nephew really wants to learn to fly fish. I’m a PA boy and know nothing of the area.  Anyone who can give me a location where a kid can catch a few bluegills (or whatever) from shore on flies within an hour or so of Walnut Creek/Richmond/El Sobrante CA, please let me know so I can take the kid fishing. I believe if we don’t set the next generation on fire for the water and the sport, all else we do is beside the point.  If you have any ideas, please post them here or email me. Help me save a kid from video games and the gawdamn web.   All responses appreciated. Thanks so much. Bob  

Response:

I looked through some of my CA fishing books, and San Pablo Resirvoir near Berkeley may be a good bet. I’ve never fish there, so you will have to scout out the location and make a determination. Borders sells a couple of books on CA fishing, and one of them is called "Fresh Water Fishing in California" you might want to check out. it has maps and detailed descriptions of techniques and setups. You can also try calling your local tackle store for local info. There is also a SF radio show at 6am on sunday mornings on the 680 AM dial that has fishing reports for the CA and southern Oregon areas. I often DX on my HF rig from Portland area on sunday mornings to follow the striper reports in SF Bay and and Coos Bay. Try calling in and ask! Good Luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to sully the newsgroup with "tell me where’ stuff, but I have a special request of sorts.  I recently remarried a CA lady whose roots are in the East bay area.  We are going to visit her sister in June and her (now my…) 10 yr old nephew really wants to learn to fly fish. I’m a PA boy and know nothing of the area.  Anyone who can give me a location where a kid can catch a few bluegills (or whatever) from shore on flies within an hour or so of Walnut Creek/Richmond/El Sobrante CA, please let me know so I can take the kid fishing. I believe if we don’t set the next generation on fire for the water and the sport, all else we do is beside the point.  If you have any ideas, please post them here or email me. Help me save a kid from video games and the gawdamn web.   All responses appreciated. Thanks so much. Bob  

Response:

I looked through some of my CA fishing books, and San Pablo Resirvoir near Berkeley may be a good bet. I’ve never fish there, so you will have to scout out the location and make a determination.

Yes, San Pablo Reservoir is excellent, although you might want to consider renting a boat there since the best fishing tends to be on the far side (of course…) of the reservoir, or at the ends.  Most of the bank fishing near the public access tends to be Power Bait fishing for trout. Also, I think it’s maybe better for a kid to be flyfishing from a boat since there is less likelihood of getting snagged in trees and bushes. (At least that’s true for me!) You can also look into Del Valle Reservoir, Shadow Cliffs, and Lake Chabot, all probably not more than 30 minutes away. Borders sells a couple of books on CA fishing, and one of them is called "Fresh Water Fishing in California" you might want to check out. it has maps and detailed descriptions of techniques and setups. You can also try calling your local tackle store for local info.

The best all around guidebook, by far, IMHO, is California Fishing, by Tom Stienstra, published by Foghorn Press.  Not only are there descriptions and maps, but fishing quality ratings as well. Richard Morrison Menlo Park, CA

Response:

You may want to try Lafayette Reservoir too … Bassing Lake Berryessa … and the Delta has lots of locations for fun fishing … John

Response:

I don’t want to sully the newsgroup with "tell me where’ stuff, but I have a special request of sorts.  I recently remarried a CA lady whose roots are in the East bay area.  We are going to visit her sister in June and her (now my…) 10 yr old nephew really wants to learn to fly fish. I’m a PA boy and know nothing of the area.  Anyone who can give me a location where a kid can catch a few bluegills (or whatever) from shore on flies within an hour or so of Walnut Creek/Richmond/El Sobrante CA, please let me know so I can take the kid fishing. All responses appreciated. Thanks so much. Bob

   At 10, if he’s fished at all, he knows where the spots are. It’s basically just a change of gear and tactics. I still fish my mother in laws favorite fishing hole, I guess I was kinda her favorite because I would go fishing with her, she loved to fish.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to sully the newsgroup with "tell me where’ stuff, but I have a special request of sorts.  I recently remarried a CA lady whose roots are in the East bay area.  We are going to visit her sister in June and her (now my…) 10 yr old nephew really wants to learn to fly fish. I’m a PA boy and know nothing of the area.  Anyone who can give me a location where a kid can catch a few bluegills (or whatever) from shore on flies within an hour or so of Walnut Creek/Richmond/El Sobrante CA, please let me know so I can take the kid fishing. I believe if we don’t set the next generation on fire for the water and the sport, all else we do is beside the point.  If you have any ideas, please post them here or email me. Help me save a kid from video games and the gawdamn web. All responses appreciated. Thanks so much. Bob

Aloha Bob,   Check out http://usafishing.com for California fishing reports and check out the links California Lakes, Central Valley Rivers, and Delta Report.  The Delta (north of Tracy) is fun for Stripers and Largemouth, Lake Chabot was okay though slow at times.  Del Valle and San Pedro are great IF you have a boat.  The most fun I had was fishing a stream in Rancho Murrieta outside of Sacremento for all kinds of panfish, sorry but don’t recall the name of the stream but it was the only one in the area. Spy in Hawaii

Response:

Question:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?

That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

The Western Rockies would be great – next year might be best, that’ll give folks a chance to do some planning.     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

<<Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? Gehrke is coming from the fine northwestern state of Washington. If you do have a western clave, count me in. Dave LaCourse

____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

Response:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ? That’s a superb idea, Fred. Everyone knows that Western flyfishing is better than Eastern flyfishing. I’m tempted to volunteer to host it, but I don’t think I’ll be ready this year. Maybe next year. If someone else wants to organize something in the Western Rockies count me in.

        now, now, boys, don’t y’all fret yourselves about a little ol clave organization job.  fortunately for you big sky folks, little wayno’s outfitters (we never close) has just expanded its service area to include the entire western united states.         for a nominal sum (contact the undersigned *only* for details), lwo’s, as we are called in the buckhead section of atlanta, will provide you with the time of your life.  of course, certain, um, "services" are actually provided by big joe’s flesh emporium of nasty, colo., but we can assure you of an event that will be burnt into your memories for eternity.         we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance. for the firm wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

        we’ll need a 50% advance and a ten day lead time.  glad to be of assistance.

hell, you’ll have spent all the money in less than 10 days….. waldo the reelist —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS/HOME.HTM

Response:

____  I suppose if we held it here, I’d have to take all you guys on these remote float trips, jet up the Snake River and/or fish for wild cuttrhroat like it was 200 years ago in a wilderness? egads.  the thought of it. Mr. G.

They had jetboats in the late 1700’s? C’mon G, now I don’t even believe that. Big Al

Response:

They had jetboats in the late 1700’s?

Yes, they did.  All tricked out and ready to go.  Fortunately, gasoline had yet to be invented so everyone sat around lookin’ at ‘em and saying, "Damn! I wish someone ‘ud invent gasoline so we could go tearin’ around like maniacs and ravage us an ecosystem!".  Whale oil was available but didn’t have a high enough octane rating.  Eventually the jetboats were abandoned in favor of dugout canoes.  Thought you’d want to know. — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Is it a possibility to have one out West, say July or August, that would be accessible for the crowd West of the Mississippi ?     http://www.newsfeeds.com/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Question:

I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"

"really hammered ‘em"  covers all situations.  (keep walking) Schuhfly

Response:

John – How timely to see your post. Late yesterday afternoon (around 4:30) I ventured out to a local municiple lake.  I have learned to prepare myself for the stares I get when I take my rod out of the tube.  Heck, most of the guys around here have never seen a rod tube except in a Cabela’s catalog. Anyway, the area I usually fish had a few baitcasters chunking plastic worms and being the social type, I climbed right in with them. They ususally give me plenty of clearance when they see my backcast. Anyway, the worm chunkers were bombing a grassline and turning up nothing.  I gave them there space and when they moved down the shoreline a bit, I came in behind them with a black #12 wooly worm and picked up the little 2 and 3 lb bass they left behind.  The looks on their faces were priceless. So you see, even us – no catching wiggle rodders – have our day in the sun. Tight lines. Gary

Response:

Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"  Now what I’d like to say is yea, I had a great day, the sky was blue, the birds were singing, I cast to a few trout, one took my fly, we had a great fight, and I gently released him back to his stream to fight another day. However, you know what they are thinking is "Ha you loser…you got skunked…can’t catch fish at all…ha ha ha". What do you guys do about this situation?  Should I lie and always say "Yea, I stacked ‘em like cordwood", or should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel? -John —

Response:

What do you guys do about this situation?  

On those occasions when I don’t want to stop & chat, standard response, "Oh yeah, one er two". It’s not impolite, gives no additional information and is said in a way that invites no further conversation. should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel?

Given your pretentious predilections, I would advise against it. — Ken Fortenberry

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What do you guys do about this situation?  

If I have had a great day, I like to park my butt in a hole within eyesight of the bastards and pound fish like crazy, careful of course to emphasize the catch and release aspect.  Even better is catching a fish right under their nose or out of the back pocket of their waders. If I have had a poor day, a simple, "What a day!" followed by a grin leaves em guessing and keeps the honesty in check. Of course if I got skunked and the bait huckers are pulling fish out like crazy I find that a large rock hurled from the trail into their hole helps ease my frustrations.  I must mention that this form of therapy is saved for the times when the Jeep is in sight and I have a big head start.   Mike Wilson Fishing!! What else is there?

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Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"

I usually reply to all and sundry with a ambiguous "…not much" and leave it at that. Majority of times it’s true – when it’s not I don’t want to advertise. I don’t care if someone else thinks I’m an idiot. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —

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What do you guys do about this situation

My standard reply is: "Got a couple on midges" George Adams

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ROFL! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My standard reply is: "Got a couple on midges" George Adams

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The idea of a fisherman telling the truth when asked about his fishing should not be considered.

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Tell them you got a couple on worms and watch the look on their faces.

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situation?  Should I lie and always say "Yea, I stacked ‘em like cordwood", or should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel? -John — Of course if I got skunked and the bait huckers are pulling fish out like

crazy I find that a large rock hurled from the trail into their hole helps ease my frustrations.  I must mention that this form of therapy is saved for the times when the Jeep is in sight and I have a big head start. Mike Wilson Geez, I’d reply to these trolls, but I feel like I’d be stepping on T-Bone’s toes.             Jim

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Tell them you got a couple on worms and watch the look on their faces.

Quizzical, confused, look comes over my face. …wrigglers or baby nighties ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?" However, you know what they are thinking is "Ha you loser…you got skunked…can’t catch fish at all…ha ha ha".

I’m not sure if bait chuckers think that way in my neck of the woods. Most of the time they see flyfishers catching more fish than they do. You also see a lot of spin fishers use a water bubble and fly on lakes here. A number of times they have sheepishly asked if it was hard to learn to fly fish. THEN- you lay it on them. Big Al

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red wigglers, baby nighties, or, most likely, San Juan. aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh.

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[deleted] What do you guys do about this situation?  Should I lie and always say "Yea, I stacked ‘em like cordwood", or should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel?

[deleted] Is there any doubt that guilt replaced the creel ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"

    I think if the flyrod is accompanied with nice looking neoprenes and a vest with pockets buldging and gadgets dangling you’ll tend to get this greeting.  My appearence on stream far from suggests the stereotypical "fly fisherman".  The only give away is the rod.  I always have it rigged in the car before I leave the driveway.  I guess I just tend to blend in.  That is until I start fishing. Of course, I can’t remember the last time I didn’t fish circles around everyone in sight. Sorry, couldn’t help myself, but it’s true!! JE

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"  Now what I’d like to say is yea, I had a great day, the sky was blue, the birds were singing, I cast to a few trout, one took my fly, we had a great fight, and I gently released him back to his stream to fight another day. However, you know what they are thinking is "Ha you loser…you got skunked…can’t catch fish at all…ha ha ha". What do you guys do about this situation?  Should I lie and always say "Yea, I stacked ‘em like cordwood", or should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel? -John —

Simple, I beat them to the punch and ask them first. Peter Email address hacked. Remove -delete-this- to email a reply.

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Of course, I can’t remember the last time I didn’t fish circles around everyone in sight. Sorry, couldn’t help myself, but it’s true!!

Speaking of which…how did the smoked whitefish turn out ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Speaking of which…how did the smoked whitefish turn out ?

    Not quite as good as the trout I brought up, but still darn good.  I wonder if it was the wood.  I used apple on the whitefish and hickory on the trout.  Either way, I need another load! JE – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?"  Now what I’d like to say is yea, I had a great day, the sky was blue, the birds were singing, I cast to a few trout, one took my fly, we had a great fight, and I gently released him back to his stream to fight another day. However, you know what they are thinking is "Ha you loser…you got skunked…can’t catch fish at all…ha ha ha". What do you guys do about this situation?  Should I lie and always say "Yea, I stacked ‘em like cordwood", or should I try and explain to these bait slinging fish killers how I feel? -John —

Hi John, This is a great subject. I know what you are talking about. I guess you could tell them that you don’t keep the fish because they are full of chemicals? You could say that you are allergic to fish? You could say that you freezer is full? You could tell them that this stretch is catch and release? You could say that you had to let the big ones go because you have a bad back? You could say that you were getting tired of catching so many fish with bait, that you decided to try fly fishing? You could say that you were just shooting a Toyota commercial? You could say that you were just practicing casting? You could say that you are actually an undercover game warden? You could say I had a great day, the sky was blue, the birds were singing, I cast to a few trout, one took myfly, we had a great fight, and I gently released him back to his stream to fight another day. Thanks. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

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My standard answer to this question is always: "Yup" "47" e

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Howdy Rowdies, I have a question on how you guys react when someone sees you walking along with a flyrod and with that nasty grin on their face they ask "Catch anything?" -John

Maybe its a regional thing, but I’m more often asked, "Any luck?" My standard answer if I’ve been skunked is, "Well, I didn’t fall in." If not, "Yeah, I did OK." For another fly fisherman, I usually tell ‘em everything. Joe

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—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– While in non-compliance with local decency ordinances the world over, I guess you could tell them that you don’t keep the fish because they are full of chemicals?

That’s very depressing when it’s true. I like to fish the Kansas River as much as anyone, but the fish are unfit to eat to the extent that there are any eating fish anyway. A century ago, there was a significant commercial fishery for Blue and Flathead catfish on the Kaw, and fish weighing more than 80 pounds actually were caught on a semi-regular basis. Now, there’s a fat lot of nothing aside from cyprinids, a few small sturgeons, and some unhealthy-looking striped bass. You could say that you are actually an undercover game warden?

Bad news. In most US states, the wardens are peace officers. It’s illegal to claim to be one if you’re not. OTOH, if you are…:-) —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNt8/h5diUzdLFqlpAQGBrgf/RzbTAlaM74FFvMIO9exqnq3U5pgVDFMk Q0Ufdy4Grf373dWTDbrhwzxfmdLsaxUJYeSQuQACZ/TKxjqUVpP9qBYjhKtIA9Nd Lg/pXpdle1/eR3uJ3fpVXqL7fk9HCisA9Q/7Y9XQiCOCfqvxAjk9gWmsEHNM2wrY TbB9VeQ+8aMa81+8qUJig/1kNPJvyUjdbRwQcE2GzBnSqgX8llm/HXsA31qf4JJo mEH7/AKrrh5JyDkf83AndiaASynBHMGPcTA0SMu/8xSjf1i8K/ZB3HucCkNVG7PG 8rU02rpJttF+hajJMkUgXw97/ASpoaXAljo1×7kd6wHbIL7X5a4OeA== =Manp —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– Mike S. Medintz, http://www.grapevine.net/~medintz Some people say that fishing is better than sex. That proves that they ain’t doing either one right. -Mike S. Medintz, 1998

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Question:

  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17?? I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September.

Nope, it’s only closed above Allingham Bridge.  Of course that’s my favorite water, especially in the winter, but I gladly conced because there was too much damage to the banks. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

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   What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??    Many thanks,    john manotti

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  What is fishing well on the Metolius these days – March 17??   Many thanks,   john manotti

I thought it was closed?? I don’t really know if it is open or closed. It usually fishes well in June and September. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated.

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I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated.

Chris, I lived in the DR for a couple of years back in the 60s. Can’t say there would be much freshwater flyfishing; it’d be dangerous in any case. The fresh water streams are infected with Bilharzia. The eastern end of the island has a nice relatively shallow bay, Samana, bordered on the north and south by the eastern ends of the Cordillera Septentrional and the Cordillera Central. It is (or was) a great area for scuba diving, and probably is for fishing, too. Good luck. I envy you, especially at this time of year. Luther

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Thanks for the information.  By the way, what is Bilharzia?   It sounds like some kind of unpleasant parasite and doesn’t seem encouraging for any backcountry exploration.     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to be in the Dominican Republic in the next month.  Has anyone heard of any fly fishing there, either fresh or salt water?  Any information would be appreciated. Chris, I lived in the DR for a couple of years back in the 60s. Can’t say there would be much freshwater flyfishing; it’d be dangerous in any case. The fresh water streams are infected with Bilharzia. The eastern end of the island has a nice relatively shallow bay, Samana, bordered on the north and south by the eastern ends of the Cordillera Septentrional and the Cordillera Central. It is (or was) a great area for scuba diving, and probably is for fishing, too. Good luck. I envy you, especially at this time of year. Luther

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Question:

Will be cruising the BVIs in Feb. Thought that some light surface fishing or fly fishing would be fun. Do i need a license? Any details you can help with on tackle etc.? Thanks

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Will be bare boating Feb. Thought that light spincasting or flyfishing might be fun. Any experience? Do I need a license? Will be using the Moorings. Do they supply any fishing gear?

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