Question:

The topic line  speaks for itself. Drew

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Don’t you work for a living? Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you?

You started a new topic?  Is it just me, or does this feel like "Groundhog Day" to anyone else?

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living?

He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living? He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Well……. I know this is probably revolutionary, and will result in much abuse and denigration from the dyed in the wool conservatives in our midst, but  could we perhaps simply cut the elastic? After much  abuse, some quite perverse and orgiastic, some folks decided, to cap the blokes elastic, "Free speech, free speech", cried some aghast, "you must sit still and be abused, you wild phantast, How dare you try to change things, with your calls", in the meantime the idiot was still searching for his balls. Loud twangs emitted from the aggravated multitude, neuticles were substituted, and it was then construed, when a nasty bugger capitulates, and then confesses, no one has the right, to stop him wearing dresses. TL MC

Response:

The topic line  speaks for itself.

I think it was supposed to be, "I can’t believe I’ve learned much here." — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

writing skills.

See ya REAL soon then! Wolfgang

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

Do your homework, Herman. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. …

You always hate the ones you love. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills.

Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you? — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

Response:

Question:

Lots of good fishing on Bushkill Creek, but Ressica Falls is extra-special.  Actually, there are a lot of Big and Little Bushkill Creeks in Pennsylvania; Ressica Falls is near 611 & 402. Ressica Falls is owned by the Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts of America, and a permit is required to fish there.  Way worth it. The stream is as pretty as any you’ll find, the water as suited for trout as you could like, and the water is so well-stocked with nice trout that first time visitors are likely to be flabbergasted.  Hatches are common in spring and summer, and can be quite abundant.  Imagine standing in hemlock lined pool, fishing a riffle, with ten trout rising noisily all around you.  Now imagine miles of stream just like that.  Now imagine you’ve just hooked a 14" brown, and boy is he pissed.  That’s Ressica Falls. Wednesday evening was quite warm.  Once again, forgot to check the water temp, but was comfy while wading wet, until my pipe started rattling in my teeth, and I started shaking violently as soon as I stepped out to go home.  ’Bout 55 degrees? Quill Gordon duns and spinners, as well as grannoms were out and about.  a tan-colored fly was also laying eggs on the water, but I wasn’t able to get a good look.  The trout were taking small brown imitations, quill gordens, henrysville, etc.  As it got dark and I was forced to switch to lighter colored flies, hits became tougher to get. Also out in profusion were buffalo gnats.  These are like the no-see-ums of the North, except that you can see them.  In fact, you can rope ‘em and ride ‘em.  You usually won’t get bitten by one; you’ll get bitten by 5 or 6.  As a repellent, I recommend a burly pipe tobacco, as they are quite aggressive. The stream bed is rocky, with numerous pools and riffles, and it’s full of brookies, browns , and rainbows.  Careful wading is important.  The scenery is beautiful, and the entire experience is more than worth the modest permit fee. Two words of caution: first, pesky bears.  Bothersome bears occasionally hassle folks in this area.  Just don’t be afraid of them. Bears can smell fear, you know.  Don’t poke them with a stick either; they really don’t like that, take my word for it. Chiggers – very common here.  Any exposed skin can become home to those cuddly little burrowing mites, and I’ve got a red dot on the side of my knee to prove it. Jeez, I feel bad that I forgot to get the water temp for you.  I’ll go back up this evening & do it right this time.  That is, if I don’t forgot again, what with the trout rising all around me, bitey gnats nipping at my ears, tobacco fog all around my head, snarly bears trying to get my attention, minimites digging holes through me like a swiss cheese, and me with the wrong fly all tangled up around the tip of my rod. Timothy Juvenal In sleep every dog dreams of food, and I, a fisherman, dream of fish.     -Theocritus

Response:

Lots of good fishing on Bushkill Creek, but Ressica Falls is extra-special.  Actually, there are a lot of Big and Little Bushkill Creeks in Pennsylvania; Ressica Falls is near 611 & 402. Ressica Falls is owned by the Liberty Council of the Boy Scouts of America, and a permit is required to fish there.  Way worth it.

Timothy, Your posts, which are quite pleasant to read, would be even more so if you would kindly set your line length to 70-75 or so. JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above

Response:

"JR" wrote …  kindly set your line length to 70-75 or so.

Oops.  Thanks for the tip. Timothy Juvenal

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Several points to ponder: Get Garcia’s book on graphite rodbuilding. tons of good info there, especially if you’ll be turning the rod by hand. also: Instead of 5 minute epoxy for the reel seat, etc, go for something with a slightly longer cure time. I found some 15′ stuff that worked well, and was even stronger. makes you a bit less nervous about getting everything the way you want it in 5′ as well. Keep redoing the wraps until they’re just the way you want them. Wrap the winding check last; it’s the most visible wrap when you’re fishing, and by saving it for the end, you’ll have all that practice beforehand. Take one last look at the wraps and the guide alignment before you mix the rod finish. Once the epoxy goes on the rod, there’s no turning back. Use syringes to measure the epoxy and hardener, and use only syringes made/sold expressly for rodbuilding. Medical syringes, while cheap and abundant, have nothing to offer the rodbuilder but misery and regret. You *will* get bubbles in the finished wraps. Steam from a cup of hot water will make them go away. I’ve hand-turned all my rods and gotten nice results. Got nothing against the automatic turners, just don’t have one. Follow Garcia’s suggestions for turning intervals and you should be fine. I strongly suggest that you use an oven timer or something similar to remind you to get up and turn the rod, especially near the end, when the intervals have stretched to 30-60′. Finally, my overall advice is to be patient, and do a quality job. Your care (or haste) in building it will be evident for many years. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC

Response:

Thanks Guys,  I’m going crazy waiting for the damn thing to arrive in the mail.I was hoping to get it done this week while I’m still on vacation.I have a video and a pretty good book so I’m hoping things will go pretty smoothly, but no book or video can prepare you for my own personal style of screwups.My attitude is if I mess up I’ll just scrape it off and start over until I get it right. Regards,Shawn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion Acetone must be used with great care near rods. It will eat into the blank and damage it irreparably. Alcohol is better for wiping off excess epoxy for this reason. TL MC

Response:

Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Response:

I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders.

They watch some damn show that captures their interest and don’t turn the rod often enough. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – regards,Shawn

Response:

I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. It starts with opening the package and goes down hill from there. The bright side is…you learn from every mistake. Have fun…it really ain’t that hard. jim

Response:

Its already been said –  Epoxy keeps flowing after you’r really sure it’s set up.  You may turn the thing for hours and be sure it set, so you put it up.  Next morning bumps where overnight the stuff has continued to flow.  If you can jury rig something to turn it do so ( I made one cheap using a dryer timing motor 6RPM) If you have never built or repaired a rod before I suggest going to Goodwill or Salvation Army and buying one.  Redo the guides and then give it back to them, it’s cheap practice. Good Luck

I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -builders. regards,Shawn

Response:

Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn

Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities.

Good advice all around.  Equal parts is a good thing.  I’ve been able to use steel kitchen measuring spoons to mix up 1 teaspoon at a time w/o problems. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey All, I’ve finally taken the plunge and decided to Build my first fly rod.I’ve ordered a St.Croix Avid nine foot seven weight.I figured I’d go with a kit for my first one so that at least all the components would match and I didn’t want to spend too much money in case I  f**k it up.This rod will fill nicely a gap in my rod collection.I like flyfishing for largemouths and my nine weight seems like overkill and my six weight not enough.I’m not buying any fancy tools (yet),I’m going to be doing it the old way using a heavy book for tension and turning the rod every few minutes while I watch t.v..I’d appreciate any tips on what usually goes wrong for first time rod builders. regards,Shawn Here’s a couple of items could save you some grief. Don’t use 5 minute epoxy to put on the reel seat or the handle. It can take longer than 5 minutes to get things properly situated. Use something with a longer pot life. Be real careful mixing up the wrap coating epoxy lest it set sticky. Use a minimum of 3 cc’s of each component when mixing. This will tend to minimize the error in measuring equal quantities. The stuff tends to be real sensitive to silicones which tend to be found in plastic measuring and mixing cups, stirring rods etc. There are these special syringes supplied by the coating maker for measuring the stuff which are guaranteed free of it. Don’t use any substitutes. Mix the stuff up in something made of glass like a shot glass and stir it with something like a stainless steel spoon handle. Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward.

A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

… Denatured alcohol will work as a solvent to clean up afterward. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson

There is some opinion out there that acetone attacks rod finishes. Denatured alcohol has worked quite well for me for cleaning up epoxy that’s still in the fluid state, and it’s arguably less toxic for skin contact and vapor too. But acetone may be the right answer if the stuff has started to set up and you need to get it off. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone.

Or just go to a charity store and buy a "china" (i.e., not plastic) dinner plate and a few dinner/butter knives.  The plate "palette" will lhave room for several batches. TC, R

Response:

Actually not.It leaves a distinct burn pattern that is readily aparent to an accomplished fire investigator. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d rather throw a few spoons and shot glasses away than mess around with acetone in the  house.   Very flamable. Great stuff if your an arsonist because it leaves almost no residue. A * much * better solvent for epoxies is acetone. — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion good luck Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Question:

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

Film canisters work – used one for abolene for years.  Still carry one as a spare in my wader bag. Peter

Response:

 …..I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls?…..

Actually, I think the "Brand G" would be a better choice.  I hear there’s billions of em out there.

Response:

Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.

<Snipped, plan to undermine our glorious capitalist economy Good God man !   Are you trying to undermine the economics of the industry ? Shame on you !  It is mandatory for a flyfisherman to carry several extremely expensive bottles of various substances of doubtful value, and hardly ever to use them.  Ideas like yours, though probably economically sound, and eminently practical, might be the death knell of the industry. Some bugger will be advising us to use cheap rods as well next !  What is the world coming to ? TL MC

Response:

Got to be me! Dave

Response:

   sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary.

Legend has it he did once<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Fished the Big Quilecene river this pm. Lots of summer run Dog salmon carcasses in river. Very few trout. Fished an Orange stimulator, #6 on a 4x, as an October Caddis. You skitter the October caddis, and bob it under the surface to emulate egg laying. Caught handful of little Cutts and 2 chunky sea brite "rainbows" of about 14"  Strong fish. Had tied up a dozen stimulators and dressed all in Albolene nite before. Tried lite and heavy dressings. Both floated the fly, but the heavier dressing of Albolene did better, and still worked after being mouthed by caught fish. Stayed a little too long and went a little too far so had to hoof it back a couple of miles thru dark pastures and highway 101. Luckily my route went by the Laughing Oyster bar. Classic timber town bar. Thankfully no spotted owl on the menu Sunday nights. Dave

Response:

Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute?

Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.  ROFF is a public forum to which many people come to exchange ideas and information related to fly fishing and a host of other topics.  I contribute by posting on topic messages whenever I feel that they may satisfy one or more of the following criteria; they must be informative, unique, insightful, amusing, illustrative, or in some other way useful.  I use the same criteria for off topic posts. Now, since there are many regular contributors here whose knowledge of matters related to fly fishing is vastly greater than my own I leave most of the informative answers to fly fishing questions to them.  Given the wide ranging interests of the people who post here it stands to reason that certain topics will come up about which I am in a position to say something worthwhile by virtue of the fact that I am a unique human being with experiences different from anyone else’s.  When that happens I contribute as I can and when the spirit moves me. As for being critical, I plead guilty as charged.  So what?  Early in my career on this NG I was taken to task for daring to offer a definition of a scientific term which many others found lacking, and this is as it should be.  What, after all, is the purpose of a public forum?  Is it not to sift through the dross of ill considered and sloppily propounded opinions in search of the truth?  Or, if you will allow me to switch metaphors, what we are about here is a process of distillation.  We are looking for the pearls of wisdom hidden in the sow’s ear or some such. But enough of that. Let’s get to the point of your criticism so cleverly hidden in what appears to be a question.  So, you don’t like my tone.  Evidently you see me as being unnecessarily quarrelsome or even unkind.  Again, guilty as charged…at least in some cases.  I don’t find this particularly difficult to justify though.  The great beauty of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  The great shortcoming of the usenet is that it affords anyone with access the opportunity to say whatever he or she wishes with a guarantee that the message will be available to a wide audience.  We live in what is called the information age.  Unfortunately a lot of what passes as information is in fact, shit.  And not everyone who passes information via this forum is pure of motive.  All too often some sanctimonious asshole shows up with an agenda that has nothing to do with sharing information or camaraderie.  It’s all about demonstrating that he is a superior being, some kind of Nietzchean Ubermensch.  I suspect that more often than not the underlying motivation is really an attempt to convince himself that he is in fact something more than a waste of valuable space, but that is neither here nor there.  Whenever this occurs I will, in my own humble way, do whatever I can to convince him that this is not a friendly place for such as he.  I am of course aware that others see matters differently than I do and that they have different means of dealing with miscreants.  This too is as it should be.  We have several regulars here who are the very soul of kindness and forbearance. And while I admire their measured responses to people who are not worthy of their attention I cannot be who they are nor act as they do.  Different strokes…. I hope I have cleared up this matter for you.  If not, let me know via email and I’ll expand.    One thing has makes me curious though.  The post to which you responded with your criticism of my criticism was a plea for Kathy not to give up on ROFF.  There was nothing critical in anything I said in that post. In fact, I even pointed out your "small stream fly fishing part III" as an example of a good reason for staying!  It seems to me there would be more appropriate places for you to voice your complaints.  It shouldn’t be at all difficult for you to find a thread in which I took a swipe at someone. Cheers!

Response:

Saturday, October 16, 1999 Wolfgang, …you seem to be an intelligent writer and you find it a point to seek out people at a public board and criticize.  Please, could you explain to me your idea of the ROFF, what it is in your words, and how you contribute? Why yes, actually I’d be delighted.

        (remarkably intelligent response deleted) Cheers!

        who loves ya, baby. wayno

Response:

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! If George says it, all hell breaks loose! — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

Response:

Bill Grey: <<Hi all, Funny thing – if I say GINK is a terrific floatant  - that is not spam it’s the truth! It is a terrific floatant.  I don’t think any one has a problem with that. Dave L.

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

here and say, "Hey!  Come on over to the Camp Site and join into the discussion about spamming!"  (?) Okay Kathy, I think we understand why you actually scrolled through this question.  Thanks for our opinion. Mr. G.

Response:

Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

Response:

Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

Hey Ernie, or whoever remembers Whats the name of that hand cream you said was a great floatant? Where can you buy it? How much does it cost? Dave

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar. TL MC

Response:

Albolene.   Costs about eight dollars ( American ) for a big jar.

Sorry, forgot source !   Most drugstores and similar.

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

Can’t you fill an applicator bottle from the jar? I have never seen the stuff so I have no idea if it can be done or not, but I am sure someone out there already has (or tried).  Info? Tips? Warren Remember, men will come and men will go, but the streams and mountains go on forever. -Bob Carmichael

Response:

Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine. — Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ? BTW, George when you coming out with a upside down applicator ? Im going to give this stuff a try. Just found out you can order Albolene floatant on the web for $6 a 6 oz jar. Fact is they sell it in case lots, and probably by the carload. Just in case anyone else is interested, here is their web address. http://cdesb.com/ Dave

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Don’t leave Kathy!  Lots of reasons to stay.  For example, see Adam’s "small stream fly fishing Part III" above.  In addition Mu shared a lovely story with us just yesterday.  Mike is back with with his valedictorian versification…….the list goes on.  Life goes on and ROFF is still the last best place around!

Response:

oh, come on, isn’t worth $2.49  for you to have the convenience of an applicator bottle ? Or do you ant to go streamside with a 6 oz. jar hanging from your vest ?

It REALLY isn’t necessary to take the entire six ounce tub in the stream with you.  The world is full of containers of all sizes and shapes.  Transferring Albolene from its original container to something more convenient for use in the stream is any easy task.

Response:

 Somewhere along the way I picked up a little holster thingy that holds the Gink bottle upside down, clipped to a zinger on my vest.  Label says "Gus’s Original Montana Flot-Pak".  Damned if I know where I picked it up at, but it works fine.

     If you are a real cheapskate (I am) you can make your own bottle holder. All the hardware stores sell black plastic 1" table leg end caps, they are usually come packaged four for a buck. These will snugly hold most of the gooey floatants (if you still use the stuff), most brands come in the same size bottle. Burn two holes in the base with a hot dubbing needle and tie in a loop of leader butt material. Voila- make one for yourself and impress three friends for a buck.

Response:

For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!!

Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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For some stupid reason I actually scrolled through this trash. This is the entire reason why I have stopped wasting my time with this group. EGAD!! Filter all but those from A. Wayne Harrison….he is the young Marlon Brando. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

    sound advice, as usual, from a man whose ability to discern the truth of a matter is legendary. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hey, I’ve just had a brainstorm.  OK ready?  What about this:  I take the albolene and put some into one of those little "Brand X" bottles thats almost empty! What do you think boys and girls? Will this work? Betcha it will. Dave

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Question:

Group, My wife has finally, I think, gotten tired of me planning our family camping vacations around a fly fishing destination (last year it was Manzanita Lake and Hat Creek, not to mention our obligatory trips to the Owens Valley/Mammoth area). She  has planned a trip to Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon area. Other than Lees Ferry, can someone offer suggestions on where to fish. I’m inclined to seek out small creeks and quiet lakes as opposed to some nationally recognized mecca. We’ll be there the first week of August. Any suggestions would be most welcome. I haven’t been through this area since I was about 8, so I’m looking forward to showing it to my kids…but I would like to fish even just a wee bit. Campground suggestions would be great too. Roger

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We just got back last week from a trip to the same area.  We didn’t stay in the park when we went to Bryce, but at a campground in the national forest about 25 minutes drive to the park entrance.  The campground was at Tropic resevoir, 7 miles up a dirt road off the highway.  I didn’t take any fishing equipment with me but there were a lot people there fishing and the sight of many trout rising in the late evening (inlet side of the lake and the inlet creek) did make me wish I had my fly rod. We camped on the North Rim of the Grand, the campground was nice but reservations are required.  I didn’t see anywhere to fish near here.  At Zion we also camped in the park, reservations recomended.  The campground is on the Virgin river.  I didn’t see any fish rising or anyone fishing so I am afraid I dont’ know.  I would mention the temperatures while we were there June 6 – June 15.  Bryce (alt. < 8000 feet at Tropic res.); highs were mid 60’s, lows mid 30s (it snowed on the 5th).  Grand Canyon (alt 7800) highs mid 70, lows upper 40s.  Zion (alt 4000) high 103, low upper 60’s.  I think a warm front moved in between the Grand the Zion, but August should be warmer. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Group, << snip She  has planned a trip to Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon area. Other than Lees Ferry, can someone offer suggestions on where to fish. I’m inclined to seek out small creeks and quiet lakes as opposed to some nationally recognized mecca. << snip Campground suggestions would be great too. Roger

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Joe, I’m starting to think I may not bring the gear at all, since it looks like we won’t get down to Lee’s Ferry. This looks like it’s shaping up to be a "family" trip with few opportunities for fishing. How was the campground at Tropic Reservoir? I’m looking for an alternative to overcrowed NP campgrounds in the park, and those private monstrosities that feature swimming pools, arcades, snack shops etc. The kids are voting for the latter, but that ain’t camping to me. Problem is the wife insists on Showers. Which campground did you use in Zion? Thanks for your help Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We just got back last week from a trip to the same area.  We didn’t stay in the park when we went to Bryce, but at a campground in the national forest about 25 minutes drive to the park entrance.  The campground was at Tropic resevoir, 7 miles up a dirt road off the highway.  I didn’t take any fishing equipment with me but there were a lot people there fishing and the sight of many trout rising in the late evening (inlet side of the lake and the inlet creek) did make me wish I had my fly rod. We camped on the North Rim of the Grand, the campground was nice but reservations are required.  I didn’t see anywhere to fish near here.  At Zion we also camped in the park, reservations recomended.  The campground is on the Virgin river.  I didn’t see any fish rising or anyone fishing so I am afraid I dont’ know.  I would mention the temperatures while we were there June 6 – June 15.  Bryce (alt. < 8000 feet at Tropic res.); highs were mid 60’s, lows mid 30s (it snowed on the 5th).  Grand Canyon (alt 7800) highs mid 70, lows upper 40s.  Zion (alt 4000) high 103, low upper 60’s.  I think a warm front moved in between the Grand the Zion, but August should be warmer. Joe

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Question:

For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

 what do you wnat to see? naked fish?

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: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

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Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I canoed the Boundary Waters from Sept. 13th – 20th, pretty close to Quetico. Fishing was pretty good (we caught some decent bass), and the weather was outstanding, except for a little rain on Sunday the 15th.  We didn’t see any bears, although we were careful to hang our packs just in case (we saw bear tracks and scat at several of our portages).  We did see moose, bald eagles, beavers, and a lot of other wildlife. The skies were very clear for most of our trip, and I did see the Northern Lights (which was a thrill for me, because I’m from NJ), as well as more stars than I’ve ever seen before. How was Quetico?  This was our first time at BWCA, and we’re trying to think of an equally spectacular place to go next year…. – Scot R.

We had lots of windy, rainy and cool weather so that limited how much messing around in our canoe we did.  We fished from it some one afternoon below a rapid.  Aside from that, we just used the canoe to get in and out.  We took a float plane to and from the ranger sta. at Lac LaCroix and canoed over to McAree Lake.  We camped at 2 places on the north end of the lake.  We heard no wolves, saw no Northern Lights, Moose, Beaver, otters or Deer.  We did see lots of Bald Eagles (15 or so at least), one Grouse and some Loons.  We caught a total of 8 fish (3 Northerns, I Walleye and 4 Smallmouths) and lost about as many.  We lost a ton of tackle bank fishing as close to the bottom as possible (that’s where the book said they are…..on the bottom).  The wind died down one night out of 4 and we had one pretty spectacular sunset.  We averaged seeing about one party a day and saw motorboats everyday on McAree.  That was a little more crowded than I was expecting.  We didn’t paddle down to Rebecca Falls because we heard thru the portage grapevine that the campsites were taken.  We did get to fly over them on the plane trip out and they (2 of them side by side!) looked pretty spectacular and the campsitse were still taken.  I’m glad we went during the "off" season.  I have a feeling that we’d have seen lots more folks 2 or 3 weeks earlier.  You can never predict the weather but I think we’d've caught more fish and seen more wildlife if the weather would’ve been decent.  We would’ve seen the N. Lights on Tues. night too (we compared notes with some other paddlers on the plane to St. Paul afterwords and they saw them on Tues. night, it was clear for them further into Quetico.  They also heard wolves.  Sounds like you guys hit the weather pretty good.  It was still a kick in spite of the shit-o weather. Dave

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: : We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I canoed the Boundary Waters from Sept. 13th – 20th, pretty close to Quetico. Fishing was pretty good (we caught some decent bass), and the weather was outstanding, except for a little rain on Sunday the 15th.  We didn’t see any bears, although we were careful to hang our packs just in case (we saw bear tracks and scat at several of our portages).  We did see moose, bald eagles, beavers, and a lot of other wildlife. The skies were very clear for most of our trip, and I did see the Northern Lights (which was a thrill for me, because I’m from NJ), as well as more stars than I’ve ever seen before. How was Quetico?  This was our first time at BWCA, and we’re trying to think of an equally spectacular place to go next year…. – Scot R.

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We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? Dave

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: We canoed the Quetico the 9th thru the 13th of this month and I remember : before going reading some posts by other folks that were to be going that : week too.  I’d like to compare notes on what your trip was like (fishing, : Northern Lights, Wolves, Bears, weather, etc).  Anyone care to swap lies? I don’t see any reason why you cannot post your lies right here.  :-) —       .                      *        .    +          .  o        B. Michael Wick      .             ‘     .    +        Carnivorous Vulgarus      .   .     o                http://www.visi.com/~wick/   *   .    ’         +  *            .          *                        *        

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Question:

Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

I have been out twice this season with no trout to show. Any hotspots in southwest Pa.? Any stream tactics etc? Any hot baits, lures. I usually use mealworms and waxworms. Thanks Jeff

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

Ron, In terms of artifical lures, there are a wide variety which I have has success with. THese include Rooster Tails, the Mepps line and Silver fox.  I have found that in muddy water a nice shiny lure that is cast upstream and allowed to drift downstream and bounced along the bottom of the river and then slowly reeled in can be quite effective. I first learned this when I was a kid.  What a sight.  Twenty people fishing this stretch of stream and no one catching anything, except me a fifteen year old.  I was using a small (size 0 or 1) silver fox spinner. Hope this helps, Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

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try cheese, american works the best

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

I’ve fished for trout a lot. The best I’ve found is salmon eggs laid on the bottom. (Red Balls of Fire) I’ve also used spinners successfully in lakes. Eggs work the best in streams.  I also sometimes get a bobber, attach a hook with eggs to a leader, and float the hooks into waterfalls or calm areas. I always catch something. KM  NM

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

My favorite method for catching trout is fly fishing.  The advantages include a wide variety of ‘bait’…  if they won’t bite on one fly you just try another.  Watching for the bugs that are hatching while you are fishing gives you some idea of what type of fly to use that day. The act of fly fishing is a great relaxer to me…  the casting motions, the need to really watch your fly for strikes, the satisfaction of catching fish on a fly you’ve tied yourself… Time to go.  Gotta catch some brookies.                     /                /  /__/    JourneysNorth’s Original Gary K. Foote /  /     / Mt.Washington Valley Guide Activities, Lodging, Dining, Attractions, Events, More_____ P.O. Box 3214, North Conway, New Hampshire 03860 (603)356-7111

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Question:

Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? Thanks for your help. Bruce — —                        Andrew Pea & Co., Inc               Information and Technology Consultants                 Publisher, The Prairienet Companion                               -=*=-               Office 217-352-7830 * FAX 217-359-1761

Response:

: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck. And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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Bruce, another source of rod building info (or anything to do with ANY aspect of fly fishing) is for you to subscribe to the Flyfish list.  We have several professional rod builders on the list and plenty of other people building rods. These type of questions come up all the time.  To subscribe, do the following: Message:  subscribe flyfish (space) your name You will then receive an incredible amount of mail from the list, so enjoy!! Frank Church Goshen, In

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: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? This group is perfect.  If you clearly state your topic in your, umm, topic. you will receive lots of help.  good luck.

Thanks, I’ll need all the help I can get! And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g

Yeah, it was fun. And I defy anyone to come up with something new I havn’t heard — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

– |      =     _                   |                                |^M M|

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Question:

Looking for info on effectiveness of home page for a fly shop.  Trying to convince the local shop I haunt to go electronic.  How’s it working?

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Has anyone seen any Fly shops advertising on the net.  Please Email your answer to me as I can’t always use the net as often as I would like.  My Thanks Ken L.

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Hey Mike, Love to send you our Catalog on a Disk, just send me your Postal Address and we’ll get it right off.  Oh, by the way we will have our Home Page up and running in a very short time…2-3 weeks, Best regards, Tom and Lyle King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. P.O. Box 304 Addison, IL 60101 1-800-FISH-670

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Hey Mike, Love to send you our Catalog on a Disk, just send me your Postal Address and we’ll get it right off.  Oh, by the way we will have our Home Page up and running in a very short time…2-3 weeks, Best regards, Tom and Lyle King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. P.O. Box 304 Addison, IL 60101 1-800-FISH-670

I just wanted to mention that I received a catalog from Tom within just a few days after I sent him my address.  I thought the catalog was well laid out and very easy to use.  My bosses boss is also a die-hard flyfisherman (that has nothing to do why I work here) and  I showd it to him as well. His first comment was "I have no use for this. It doesn’t have any pictures." That may be something that you’ll want to keep in mind when creating the home page.  For example, he is in the market for a pontoon boat or high quality float tube.  There were several of them listed but without pictures or a description more than one line long it’s pretty difficult to select one of them. Overall I thought the catalog was pretty good.  It wasn’t all hype nor make any wild claims about "the lowest price in town" or any of that other marketing B.S.  It could use more work but it’s a good start. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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