Question:

I managed a nasty face plant on that trip because I stood up, took a step and snagged my fin on the oar. Don’t forget to get those fins off before you stand up. They call me grace. snip- BTW I lost a fin (also borrowed) when the bottom muck pulled – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it off while I was trying to stand. Use straps.

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Thanks for the input, chaps, much appreciated.  Confirmed much of what I thought. Another Question … Do you drift rivers in pairs? For safety as well as convenience. I’m thinking about car relays, like we do for the raft, i.e drop a vehicle (usually after depositing the raft at put in) at a takeout. I suppose its possible some pontoons would be light enough to carry some way (not that I’ve seen any here yet).   Steve BTW: Ryan, I don’t need no flippers, oars or other props to do a face plant.

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I rented a pontoon boat this summer and floated my favorite river. The Yakima river in central Washington is a "large river" to me (in most places I cannot stand on one bank and cast across to the other…). The water for the most part, and depending on the time of year, is calm. There are a few stretches of heavy ripples, but they only stretch for approximately 50 yards or so. It’s easy enough to bear down and get past them. Prior to floating the river on the pontoon boat, I was always dependant upon a guide, and their boat, to fish this river effectively. Wading access is limited by steep and rocky banks in most areas. Since I’ve floated the river several times with a guide, I’m comfortable enough to know where the good spots are and I’m efficient enough to get to them on a pontoon boat. When I pontoon drifted the river, I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to fish as I drifted as opposed to drifting from location to location. It’s difficult to successfully consider your position on the river, hold a rod, worry about fly lines and keep the oars pointed in the right direction all at once. Not a pretty site and not a stress free afternoon. My recommendation would be: 1) absolutely try it. 2) don’t wear flippers on the river (too hard to control and definately hard to get out of the boat when you get anchored at a good spot). 3) mainly fish once you get to the proper location on the river. 4) don’t worry about fishing while you’re on the move on the boat. I must say that as I reflect on the times that I’ve caught fish on the river, either with a guide or on the pontoon boat, it’s always been a situation where I could have been standing in a foot or two of water. Now I have to go weigh my options: to buy a new 3wt fly rod and reel this winter, or get a new pontoon boat instead… Ryan

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I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner?

I know its possible, because I’ve seen people doing it.  When I tried it myself, though, I quickly realized that I wasn’t coordinated enough to control the boat and fish at the same time.  Of course, I’ve never been the most graceful person in the world. Kevin

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I have a pontoon boat, and fish rivers and lakes using it. For lake fishing, it is very comfortable to wear flippers to move to boat slowly, hold position, or work slowly over an area. You can move quite quickly over longre distances by using the oars. The boats sit high in the water, and move quite easily. They are responsive and you can fish while using flippers to control the boat. The only down side to the pontoon boats on lakes is that in windy areas like where I live, it sometimes gets too hard to control the boats with flippers. I have used pontoon boats on reasonably fast, waters in the Canadian Rockies. I wear wading boots, and use the oars for controlling direction. I would never wear flippers on a river. Just too dangerous. I do not fish while travelling, but use the boat for access. You drift downstream for a while, stop when you reach good water, and fish. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift". Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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G’day all, Here in Aus. we’re starting to see an influx of watercraft such as pontoon boats (at absolutely ludicrous prices i.e. way too much but thats another story).  Along with the influx comes the hype and in particular the claim that they can be used on rivers to "fish while you drift".   Now I think controlling the craft while drifting while fishing would be difficult in the extreme on moving water.  In fact I susepect it might be outright dangerous – sure the craft can be used to drift from location to location, but fishing from it at the same time? I understand that its possible to use flippers as well oars to control these craft, thus freeing up the hands for other purposes, but is it feasible to fish on any but the slooooowest moving streams in this manner? Thoughts? experiences? Steve

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Question:

Natural populations tend to be cyclic in nature.  The factors governing this are also affected by a host of variables, not the least of which are weather, pollution, ( "natural" pollution is meant here ), food availability, fishing pressure, predator abundance etc.   Even after fairly exhaustive studies, over long periods of time on small waters, of all the factors and trends, ( or at least as many as possible ),they are so complex, that it is more or less impossible to give any single main cause for fluctuations of the type you mention. Major pollution ( it does not have to be much to cause "major" pollution in a small stream ), or severe climactic conditions ( and the factors which these then introduce ) may wipe out large portions of any particular year group of fish, and these fish are consequently missing in the population pyramid.  Severe flooding for instance may destroy large portions of spawn, especially if spawning areas are limited , as is often the case on small streams. In other years the spawning is more or less successful as the gravel forms new areas for the fish to use, or the original beds regenerate. It may however take several years or longer for a spawning population to recover, and in some cases it never does without external  ( human ) assistance, as the viability of the population drops below the level required for its continued existence. The growth of wild fish is also subject to considerable variation.  Rough cycles of between three and seven years have been observed on many  small streams, even without any known major external unnatural influences.  In some cases fishing pressure is heavily responsible for the selective removal of the larger fish, and as there are less of these than any others, the result is smaller average sized fish.  Once a place is known to contain only small fish many people avoid it, and the small fish again get the chance to grow on somewhat, before somebody once again discovers that there are larger ones to be caught, and the whole business starts again. Small stillwaters ( the pond in the original question for instance ), are much easier to diagnose, especially as they are not subject to many  of the vagaries to which running water is subjected, and much more information is available on the population dynamics and other effects to which  such waters are subjected. It is fairly common on many small streams to have a relatively good season after two or three, rarely four or five, bad ones, then the system declines again. This assumes that no single major factor ( or a combination of such), is in operation, which might cause a permanent decline. Permanent declines ( permanent is usually taken to mean no hope of recovery within the next ten years, nothing is really permanent in nature),of some small streams have also been noted as a result of the following causes  these are not exhaustive examples, just a few known causes ),  road pollution after a tarred road was built nearby, insecticide and herbicide seepage from a golf course,  agricultural changes in the immediate vicinity, water extraction from the local water table, gravel removal ( destruction of spawning beds and fly-life ), long term pollution, ( in one case this was caused by seepage from building rubble, and even after this was removed the stream did not recover as most of the fly-life etc had been destroyed).  One small stream was more or less destroyed by farmers washing there tractors in a ford. The oils and detergents used for this caused havoc, and it was some time before the cause was discovered, as the people doing it did not exactly advertise their behaviour. Leakage from dairy farms ( milk producers ) is also a major cause of damage to many small streams. A major spill is not necessary, the constant seepage is sufficient. These systems are extremely dynamic and sensitive to even relatively minor changes. Quite small events can change the dynamics of such a stream literally within hours, and the effects last a very long time. To sum up.  I don’t know ! TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Just a guess…  When I lived in your so-fair state (mid-80’s), I had a NC fisheries biologist tell me that by far the major inhibitor of recruitment in the streams in the National Forests as well as in GSMNP was cyclical anchor ice and subsequent scour of redds. If you can match observed fish abundance by size over the years up with winters with particularly bad hard freeze/fast melt cycles, you might have part  of the answer.  

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The size of a fish is determined by the amount of food not the number of years.  More food they eat the more they grow.  Our local fish hatchery claims to get 4 years growth in 1 year just by over feeding them.  After the fish have reached a desired size, they stop feed them as much which slows their growth. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a small pond behind my house and it has been for about 30 years. Lately i’ve been fishing it.  The only fish i’ve caught is small perch. Can anyone tell me why that is.  A few years ago when I fished it the fish were a little bit bigger.  I’m the only one that fishes it. Thanks. ike0921         which leads me to another, similar query.  i have fished hazel creek, in the great smoky mountains of north carolina, for thirty years.  during that time, i have observed substantial cyclical changes in the size and number of fish, usually on about a five year basis. note bene:  that estimate is *very* uncertain; could be as little as three years between "changes" (you will pardon the pun), or as many as seven.  in short, in year 1 through 5, we caught a large number of really outstanding, fat, healthy fish.  years 6 through 9, let’s say, we began to catch dozens more fish per day, but they were smaller on the average.  then, about five years transpired wherein few fish were caught, and even then were not very nice; followed by a return to really lovely fish of respectful numbers within the next few years. oh, well, you begin to understand the scenario; but why?         any amateur fisheries biologists, or simply dudes with opinions, who want to help solve this mystery? wayno

yeah, the first years you were fishin with a different colored line. waldo

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    which leads me to another, similar query.  i have fished hazel creek, in the great smoky mountains of north carolina, for thirty years.  during that time, i have observed substantial cyclical changes in the size and number of fish, usually on about a five year basis. note bene:  that estimate is *very* uncertain; could be as little as three years between "changes" (you will pardon the pun), or as many as seven.  in short, in year 1 through 5, we caught a large number of really outstanding, fat, healthy fish.  years 6 through 9, let’s say, we began to catch dozens more fish per day, but they were smaller on the average.  then, about five years transpired wherein few fish were caught, and even then were not very nice; followed by a return to really lovely fish of respectful numbers within the next few years. oh, well, you begin to understand the scenario; but why?    any amateur fisheries biologists, or simply dudes with opinions, who want to help solve this mystery?

Wild populations _ARE_ cyclical, it’s not your imagination or is it "unnatural." As the prey dwindles, the predators dwindle, thus allowing the prey to flourish again, which lets the predators flourish, etc.*  Of course, other influences, including but not limited to man, can "vary the pitch."  For example, if we (in the South/Southwest) get a really wet spring, followed by a basically dry scorcher of a summer, quail populations go way down, and it somewhat effects some "varmint" populations.  Winters like this one effect localized ("native") dove populations because it effects migration.  A banner crop/vegetation year means a banner year, in size and health, for next year’s fawn crop. *I realize "predator," "prey," and "flourish" are generalizations, but they are accurate enough for the discussion. In much of Texas, coyotes are overrunning things, just like deer in parts of the central Northeast.  Nature will eventually kill them back, either using something, like man, or simple over-population will do it.  Even domesticated herds (bovine/ovine, not so much hogs, chickens, etc.) are somewhat cyclical due to weather factors, which affect feed factors. HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wayno

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brookies are always kept for frying.  The gene pool is reduced to the smallest common denominator Wayne.  What does remain are the few big ones who have learned to hide better.  These are the meat eaters who survive on the stunned brookies.  There is also natural prededation on the remaining, small-sized numerous stock.  The pressure is reduced due to lack of interest and there is a quiet, remote healing period.  Then one day, everyone realizes there are some nice fish to be had again and so it goes. gg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a small pond behind my house and it has been for about 30 years. Lately i’ve been fishing it.  The only fish i’ve caught is small perch. Can anyone tell me why that is.  A few years ago when I fished it the fish were a little bit bigger.  I’m the only one that fishes it. Thanks. ike0921         which leads me to another, similar query.  i have fished hazel creek, in the great smoky mountains of north carolina, for thirty years.  during that time, i have observed substantial cyclical changes in the size and number of fish, usually on about a five year basis. note bene:  that estimate is *very* uncertain; could be as little as three years between "changes" (you will pardon the pun), or as many as seven.  in short, in year 1 through 5, we caught a large number of really outstanding, fat, healthy fish.  years 6 through 9, let’s say, we began to catch dozens more fish per day, but they were smaller on the average.  then, about five years transpired wherein few fish were caught, and even then were not very nice; followed by a return to really lovely fish of respectful numbers within the next few years. oh, well, you begin to understand the scenario; but why?         any amateur fisheries biologists, or simply dudes with opinions, who want to help solve this mystery? wayno

– Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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I have a small pond behind my house and it has been for about 30 years. Lately i’ve been fishing it.  The only fish i’ve caught is small perch. Can anyone tell me why that is.  A few years ago when I fished it the fish were a little bit bigger.  I’m the only one that fishes it. Thanks. ike0921

        which leads me to another, similar query.  i have fished hazel creek, in the great smoky mountains of north carolina, for thirty years.  during that time, i have observed substantial cyclical changes in the size and number of fish, usually on about a five year basis. note bene:  that estimate is *very* uncertain; could be as little as three years between "changes" (you will pardon the pun), or as many as seven.  in short, in year 1 through 5, we caught a large number of really outstanding, fat, healthy fish.  years 6 through 9, let’s say, we began to catch dozens more fish per day, but they were smaller on the average.  then, about five years transpired wherein few fish were caught, and even then were not very nice; followed by a return to really lovely fish of respectful numbers within the next few years. oh, well, you begin to understand the scenario; but why?         any amateur fisheries biologists, or simply dudes with opinions, who want to help solve this mystery? wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I have a small pond behind my house and it has been for about 30 years. Lately i’ve been fishing it.  The only fish i’ve caught is small perch. Can anyone tell me why that is.  A few years ago when I fished it the fish were a little bit bigger.  I’m the only one that fishes it. Thanks. ike0921

My first thought is your catch may not be representitive of the population.  If it is, and it’s just the larger, older fish missing, my next thought is Snapping Turtles, but that is for my areas, and I don’t know where you are.  If the fish are all simply smaller in size, it would seem a feed issue. HTH? R

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In small waters with limited food,  fish populations tend to become stunted. Perch are especially prone to this. Taking out a number of the fish may ease the problem. Feeding extra food or nutrients may also help. The fish support capacity of the pond should be calculated, ( local fisheries board or similar will provide you with typical figures for your area ), and this level of stock should not be exceeded, If the stunting has been prevalent for some time, then the stock is best removed completely, and the pond replanted, as it may take a long time for the genes and other mechanisms responsible for the stunting to cease operation, even when the cause of the problem has been removed. In some cases placing a carefully calculated number of predators in the pond ( usually pike ) will also help, this must be done with care, may not be legal everywhere, and may result in hardly any perch and a smaller population of stunted pike ! Are you referring to yellow perch here, or are they sunfish ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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I have a small pond behind my house and it has been for about 30 years. Lately i’ve been fishing it.  The only fish i’ve caught is small perch. Can anyone tell me why that is.  A few years ago when I fished it the fish were a little bit bigger.  I’m the only one that fishes it. Thanks. ike0921

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Question:

Mike Connor writes: "Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands".

ROFL.  Woke up the dog!  Best esoterica and it immediately goes into the roff hall of shame.  Thanks, Mike. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Waldo writes: Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

Yeah, and HE was immune from all the flying biters too.  Of course, this explains a lot about Peter’s truck… Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

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Blackflies are part of the northwoods experience and an indicator of the right time to go fishing: i.e., the thicker the flies (usually) the better the fishing. Deep-Woods Off (40 percent DEET) will keep them more or less at bay and do so about as well as the 100-percent DEET products like Repel or Ben’s, with less damage to you and your equipment. Here in Maine we pretty much slather it on all day in fly season, which for us lasts from around the last of May until mid-July in the Penobscot drainage. As you can see, avoiding fly season means avoiding fishing season. By time the flies are gone, so is the runoff water and many of the trout, at least the accessible ones. Some folks wear bug jackets with gloves, and these work pretty well with some restriction in mobility and vision; you can’t really follow your fly very well through a headnet. The better bug jackets are those made of tightly woven cotton with mesh panels at the front of the hood and under the arms for ventilation. The all-mesh jackets tear up pretty quickly in the puckerbrush and they don’t even slow mosquitoes down, as they can drill right through the mesh wherever it touches you. The secret to dealing with blackflies is not in eliminating the pain of their bites but in not minding the pain of their bites. After a while you get used to it. If you smoke, keep a cheap cigar or reeky pipe tobacco going as a smudge pot; after a while you’ll hardly notice the little buggers. JRB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

Works on moose apparently. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.

What’s a black fly? Peter (snicker) email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter email is spam blocked – remove first ’s’

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"Waiter, there is a fly in my soup". "Is it black sir ?". "No".  "Oh good, then you wont need the rubber bands". TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Ignore all of the advice you have heard here.  I live in Ontario, the black fly capital of the world.  Don’t wash for 5 days then go fishing – nothing will bite you – promise.  Taste your skin after five days without soap and water – tastes bitter – tastes that way to the bugs too.  Our skin has a natural repellent but we keep washing it off. And I’m serious – worked for me in the North West Territories.  Five days in the bush and about half a dozen bites.  Ten minutes in Yellowknife after a shower and I swear every f*****g bug within half a mile had taken a chunk. Peter

damn, no wonder mark looked green every mornin down in almond waldo

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I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits. The blackflies will usually be out that time of year in the earlier dusk, then it’s the mosquitos. The last couple of years they haven’t been all that bad. Good luck up there. Any questions on where to go in the area between Watertown and Lake Placid, let me know. I may even be able to set you up with a free guide of the area, or I may be in the area then myself. Just drop a line. Gordo The worst day on the water beats the best day in the office. Gordo

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 deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.

    why not demonstrate your altruistic nature and send a few patches to petah charles for application to his crotch somewhere around the third day out… wayno

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I grew up in the area you are thinking of hitting this summer. Usually in July, the biggest pain in the butt isn’t the blackflies, but the horseflies and deerflies. One of these things is worse than a 1000 blackflies when it comes to the bite. I find that if you use deep woods cutter, they leave you alone. If you eat a banana, you will not make it more than 10 feet into the woods before you are chewed to bits.

I am the pate de foie gras of the biting insect world, the lobster thermidor, the hollandaise sauce.  There is nothing in this world which will dissuade them from sampling me if the opportunity presents itself.  Black flies, mosquitos, deer flies, chiggers, horse flies, no-see-ums, and ticks will drink a pool of DEET if they think I am at the bottom of the pool.  Sadly, it seems to be a matter of individual body chemistry.  It makes no difference whether I am sterilized or wallowing in eight days of filth.  Copious clouds of cigarette smoke annoy them but will not keep them from biting. Thus far, deer flies are the only biting insects for which I have found an effective deterrent, and this is so bizarre that most people will probably not believe it.  I didn’t myself until I actually tried it.  Tred-Not deerfly patches are pieces of fly paper with a sticky side that is attached to the back of your hat, and a VERY sticky side that traps flies when they land on it.  For reasons unknown to me, deer flies have a tendency to land of the back of your head.  As stupid as this idea sounds, it really works.  I have come in after a day of fishing to find as many as twenty deer flies stuck on the back of my hat.  These things are made by a company called Detex in Michigan.  I know they have a web site but I’ve lost the address.  However they are available at the following URL: http://www.biconet.com/traps/deerflyPatch.html

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Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken

the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

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I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

I spent a month one day in northern NH because of the black flies.  I have found that they peak early, usually in late May, early June.  There may be some around in late June, but if you use deet, they will stay away.  Puffing on a cigar will help, just puff away like your Clinton.  <g When I say "deet", I mean the 100% stuff.  It is baaaaad stuff, but it will keep them away.  Use in on your clothes, especially your hat, and use normal bug juice with a high concentrate of deet on exposed areas.  Do not expose your fly line or your fly rod to deet. I fish Labrador the 1st week in July each year, and black flies and mosquitos are as bad as anywhere.  Dress with long sleeves (a sweat shirt is good), or, a cotton turtle neck jersey is even better — it will protect your arms AND neck.  Wear fingerless gloves, and put them on after you have used the bug juice. Wear a hat and spray it well with deet.  I have found that bug jackets are inaffective with black flies.  They pile up on the front and after awhile, you can not see.  <g  But you *are* water proof.  d;0) Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

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Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

What a wussy flatlander you are.  <g Best fishing is during black fly season. Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

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DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

Last week in June is well into the decline of blackflies in the Adirondacks–in a normal year.  For the last couple summers it’s been harder to predict them, but everybody I know said they were not as bad as usual.  In 1997 I hiked across the whole park in late June, and the blackflies were barely around.  That was almost a bummer, because after a dozen mosquito bites, one gets nostalgic for a neckfull of blackfly welts. DS

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Couple of things no one has mentioned black flies tend to bit more around areas that have a pulse wrists behind the ears ankles If you get Deet on nylon it’s shot it turns into sticky mess that doesn’t dry Rub dirt on your hands after putting on your bug spray Pick up some afterbite to take the sting away they come in containers a little bigger than a pen. Bring lots of friends they might find them more delicious

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It keeps your sleeve ends closed !  Works on trousers too. Strip of Velcro is better, does not cut off the circulation. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists. Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken the rubber bands cut off all circulation, making the hands numb and unable to feel any bites <G.   chris

Hell, if THAT works, then smokin’ a blunt will work even better. /daytripper (I mean, if *numb* is what you want…)

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I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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The worst day I ever had with black flies was in 1975 in Franklin Landing were Great Bear River flows out of Great Bear Lake. There was no breeze to keep the flies down. Everywhere you looked you saw little black dots the white walls of the ship were black with flies one of the deckhands had to be taken by the hand to his room as his eyes had swollen shut from black fly bites. I put two sweaters on to try and add more distance between me and the flies they would burrow through the wool and still bite. I think I went through two or three cans of bug spray.I’ve been all over the North and that was hellish day. If it’s a dead calm day I would think twice about a hike through the bush.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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DJ     Generally speaking, blackflies in areas that far North have already peaked and are more likely to be just a mild nuisance in the evening. I take my vacation 4th of July week here in Maine, partly because the worst of the blackflies is past, and partly because there’s still good surface activity on our trout ponds. Late June should be bearable in that regard.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: don’t wear anything blue. don’t use anything scented (soaps, etc) rubber bands around wrists. Where abouts are you planning on fishing. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t. Anyone have any experience with this little monster? If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered? Thanks Dave

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Yes, You will be feeding the little buggers. Some tips: rubber bands around wrists.

Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.      - Ken — "That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. I *WOULD*  vote to make C&R illegal." – Tim Walker "Ethical conduct is purely a personal thing, and the only  arbiter of personal ethics is your own conscience."  - Mike Connor

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Rubber bands around wrists??? Inquiring minds want to know.

Long sleeve shirts AND rubber bands around wrists. I recommend a head net also if you absolutely must go into the northwoods during blackfly season. I do not. I don’t go after late May or before late August. Not the Adirondacks but northern Ontario. — Ken Fortenberry

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Dave writes-re: Blackflies I’m planning to do some fishing in the central and northern Adirondacks this summer and am trying to get up there when the dreaded black flies aren’t.   Anyone have any experience with this little monster?   If I were there, say, end of June, would I be slaughtered?

Yes. Prepare yourself with a pure-DEET type repellant, plus cigars and cigarettes keep them back a few feet. Despite all efforts, if out for a days fishing, expect to be bitten heavily. It’s worth noting, some of my best fishing for trout, both in PA and New England have been when blackflies were fierce….they are aquatic hatches as well.                           Tom Littleton

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Question:

I am an avid fly fisher doin’ cold turkey in Hong Kong, but am planning a trip to New Zealand, Tauranga/Rotorua/Taupo area for about a week in a camper van at the end of October with my 2 young lads. Any info on locations, flies, tactics, anything would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Adam J. Marr

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I am an avid fly fisher doin’ cold turkey in Hong Kong, but am planning a trip to New Zealand, Tauranga/Rotorua/Taupo area for about a week in a camper van at the end of October with my 2 young lads. Any info on locations, flies, tactics, anything would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Adam J. Marr

Adam: Check out Anglers Paradise in Turangi. John and Val  Milner have retired now, but the new owbners would help. Sporting Life in Turangi is THE place to get info and tackle. Graham has fished the Tongiriro all of his life.  ****  THE BEST **** guide in the Turangi area is Tim Mcarthy. His father was a guide (still is, I believe), but Tim is, in the opinion of MANY of the locals as well, THE BEST guide. Use his services for ONE DAY, and you will learn the pools and what catches fish. I spent 9 months fishing that river and Lake Taupo, and it’s a WONDERFUL experience. Don’t forget to bring your "winter woolies"; ice can form on the guides this time of year, but the fishing is SUPERB in June and August. After all, the NZ fish are transplanted Oregon WINTER STEELHEAD. Enjoy your trip. I wish I was going with you !!   Regards de Mikey !!

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Question:

I am new to flyfishing and heard through a local fly shop that a women’s organization is starting up in the Phoenix,AZ area.  I left my info w/ someone’s husband at the shop but haven’t heard anything. maybe someone out there knows who I can contact. My husband doesn’t really fly fish, but I expect I’ll have him converted soon.

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scribed: I am new to flyfishing and heard through a local fly shop that a women’s organization is starting up in the Phoenix,AZ area.  I left my info w/ someone’s husband at the shop but haven’t heard anything. maybe someone out there knows who I can contact. My husband doesn’t really fly fish, but I expect I’ll have him converted soon. Yes…you sound as if you will. Whether he wants it or not. – "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."                                                     -Hume

That is exactly my point: if he chooses not to convert from baitcasting, that’s fine, which is exactly why I’d like to follow up on this info.  If he chooses not to join me in my new found hobby, I would like to find a place where friendly FF information is available. I’d like to think that once he sees how much fun it is, he’d like to come along.  If not, that shouldn’t impede my quest for knowledge or a nice walk in a creek.

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Question:

Hi all! Wants anyone tell me what kind of rod is suitable for streamer? I mean, must it be rapid and powerful or not? And how much long? I specify that I usually fish in mountain streams.

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I assume you are asking about a rod for fishing streamers?  I am also assuming that you are fishing some relatively small streams in the mountains, too?  Get yourself a 7-7 1/2′ rod for 6 weight line.  The heavier line weight will carry the streamers more easily.  If you are going to fish on bigger water, I’d recommend going to a 7 or 8 weight in a faster action 9′ fly rod.  There are lots of choices.  Good luck.  Dave Kumlien, Montana Troutfittes Orvis Shop, Bozeman, MT  

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Question:

Greetings, So… we’re back from a great MTB camping trip out to a place called Capp’s Crossing.  Its about 14 Miles south of Hiway 50 just past Placerville in the Sierra National Forest in California.   Nice small camp site next to a running stream.  The camp site was well maintained and there was lots to do (Rock Climbing, Hiking, Swimming, Fly Fishing, MTBing, Strategic Naping, etc.) The trails in the area are generally usage maintained logging and 4WD road.  Some of the road haven’t been maintained in years, are over grown and make for a wild, rather technical run which includes running over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, rock gardens and a couple of drop-offs. Riding these trails was a blast but it was the first time I had encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 inches deep.  Just running straight through it  kicked up clouds of dust that coated everthing.  Riding in this stuff was a challenge.  It offers substancial rolling resistance such that rolling  into it at speed would catch you off guard and almost throw you. Anyway,  riding through this stuff felt like my backend was loose.  It would feel like it was sliding around, sideways.  My rear WTB ‘raptors did great on the climbs but my guess is that the tread pattern is optimized for climbing (duh!) and not for holding laterally (therefore, you slide).  Cornering was tough too.  I think I started getting better traction on corners when I would lean the bike way over thereby engaging the outside edging knobs.  The big trick was to stay in front so you could breath.  Otherwise you were riding in a dust storm. So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. Sometimes uphill, sometimes down.  Boulders ranged in size from marbles to softball.  To add to the challenge, the garden was rutted where other 4WD have driven.  That made staying on the line you chose very hard – but fun.  You had to change techniques quickly and keep up the speed lest you lose momentum, stop and be cursed by you riding buddy behind you (who can’t see you through the dust). Now with this combo of terrain I tried to keep my front pressure up at around 40 and my rear at 35 or so. Correct my if I’m wrong but for the slit you want lower TP for more tire surface area and for the rocks you want a higher TP to prevent snake-bites.  Snake-bites aside, is it generally better to run a lower TP? 35 and 30? Lower?  Too low?  Also, anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling? ( While you at it any tips on bike handling on fire road gravel – you know, sharp, crushed rock over hard pan.  I alway get the feeling my tires are breaking traction cause the rock just rolls.) Thanx,                 _Marc Marc E. Strohwig                                Opinion? Mine, mine, mine!! System Architect SEI SIG                                           Compuserve: 70613.502   FAX: (510) 645-3096

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over downed logs of various sizes, deep slit tracks, erosion berms, … encountered deep, deep slit.  This stuff was fine as talc and about 3 … So you would exit the slit bed and run smack into a rock garden. … anyone have a experience with realy soft slit?  Tips on bike handling?

SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. SILT. Slit: a long, narrow cut, tear or incision Silt: a sedimentary material composed of fine mineral particles (Sorry.  I don’t normally correct typos but when it is the subject of your message and you use it over and over again, it would be helpful if you spelled it right.  Same goes for the guy who wants "DISK BREAKS."  I think most of us would prefer to not break anything.) -Robin

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Question:

The best outfitters, Kaufman Streamborn in downtown Seattle and Bellevue. Warshalls at First Ave and Madison. Would like to fish with you but I live in NSW Australia. Try Mountain Lake on Orcas Island. Brooks, cutthroat anf Kokanee. Tight lines Dick Willis

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Hey!  If everyone is not completely burned out on "I’m going to be …Where can I fish posts?", I have a serious post to post. I am moving to Washington state.  Bellvue to be exact.  

Actually Mark, you need a new atlas.  Bellvue is no longer in Washington State.  It is about dead center of the northern most county of the newly annexed portion of California.  The county name is "Eyefivia", and includes roughly everything thirty miles either side of Interstate 5. i would love to hear where the good spots are, as long as you don’t mind divulging your local hotspot.

I wouldn’t mind, if there were any.  Actually, I can’t fairly say that.  Even though I have to make business trips there often, talk to the locals about their water, and basically, if it aint a salmon, they don’t care about it.   Being a trout man myself, Eyefivia has little appeal. If you do prefer trout, head east to the real Washington, or better yet, Idaho. I am also going to need to find a new fly fishing store.  The one I go to now is impecable.  The Fly Angler, in Fridley Minnesota.  I highly recomend them.  However, they are not good enough to warrant travel from Washington to get outfitted when I run low on things.  So… Any good fly shops in Bellvue?

Don’t be too quick to abandon your shop.  It might just beat the prices anyway.  Valet parking and required Tux’s for Bellvue shops can get spendy, and they’re a hassle.  Besides, if you go with a shop in Yakima, Spokane, or anywhere else to the East of Eyefivia, you have an excuse to get to where the fishing is. Also, I HATE fishing alone all the time.  I have a few friends who flyfish here in Minnesota, but alas, they are staying in this land of ten thousand lakes.  I have no problem with wetting a line by myself on a regular basis, but everybody needs fishin’ buddies.  Is there anyone in the Bellvue/Seattle/Issaquah area who is looking for someone to drown some flies with.  I am house broken (according to my wife), educated (according to my student loans), and way too obsessed with fishing (according to my friends).  So if anyone wants to fish with the nicest guy my wife has ever lived with, let me know.  Any info will be appreciated, and all responses will receive a friendly thankyou from me.   Thanks in advance.

Sorry I’m not from there (thankfully , ‘cuz you sound like you’ld be fun to fish with.  I am often on the lakes of Eastern Washington, so don’t be afraid to holler howdy.  I’ll be the guy in a blue Super Cat (a small pontoon craft sold by Clearwater Anglers in Auburn – about an hour south of where you’re moving to), in the center of a gordian wind knot.  Bring a knife.  You may have to cut me free from the effects of my famous casting ability. – Dick

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Hey!  If everyone is not completely burned out on "I’m going to be ..Where can I fish posts?", I have a serious post to post. I am moving to Washington state.  Bellvue to be exact.  i would love to hear wheere the good spots are, as long as you don’t mind divulging your local hotspot. I am also going to need to find a new fly fishing store.  The one I go to now is impecable.  The Fly Angler, in Fridley Minnesota.  I highly recomend them.  However, they are not good enough to warrant travel from Washington to get outfitted when I run low on things.  So… Any good fly shops in Bellvue? Also, I HATE fishing alone all the time.  I have a few friends who flyfish here in Minnesota, but alas, they are staying in this land of ten thousand lakes.  I have no problem with wetting a line by myself on a regular basis, but everybody needs fishin’ buddies.  Is there anyone in the Bellvue/Seattle/Issaquah area who is looking for someone to drown some flies with.  I am house broken (according to my wife), educated (according to my student loans), and way too obsessed with fishing (according to my friends).  So if anyone wants to fish with the nicest guy my wife has ever lived with, let me know.  Any info will be appreciated, and all responses will receive a friendly thankyou from me.   Thanks in advance.

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There is also "Avid Angler" and "Swallow’s Nest" in Seattle. The Yakima River is just over the hill; in the early Spring Pass Lake at Deception Pass is good.  Then there are the Stillaguamish and Skykomish Rivers.  Or, if you’re into trying the saltwater, there are numerous places to fish for salmon in Puget Sound.  And the good part is – that is only the beginning. Also in the Spring, plan on making trips to the Eastern side of the state for Lenice and Dry Falls Lakes and Rocky Ford Creek.  Many of these are flyfishing only. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti?

IMO, no, its a very good vice for the money unless of course he has the money to buy the more expensive vice. (Regals ARE nice) Then just on principal he should get the more exensive vice. After all this is fly fishing <vbseg. Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

Yes he does I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.

If you don’t want to use the rotary feature (I don’t), just tighten the rotary mechanism against the post and it will lock. Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my

Thompson Pro? You’re just rationalizing Wayne Knight Marietta GA                                              

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him
out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does
need a new vise.
I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does
not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to
my Thompson Pro?

I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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: It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, : except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. A good vice should last a lifetime, I always say. (Sorry, couldn’t resist…) — BW Brad Williams —

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… I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro?

You can in fact, adjust the drag (to the point of locking) on the renzetti’s rotation using the 2 friction wheels. It’s not the most convenient system though. Personally, I use the traveller as my only vise. I do travel alot and often bring my tying case with me. The size and weight of the traveller are great for this. Otherwise, the traveller is a great vise for the money. Good jaws, large range and very functional, at 1/3rd the price of the rest of the renzetti line. rick

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I’ve used everything from the Thompson A vise through the Renzetti, HMH, and Regal, and I’ve ended up with the Regal…it’s an absolutely foolproof vise,provides resting place for the left hand, is perfectly rotatable, esp. if Ingeset it up horizontally, can be used right-= or left- handed, has interchangeable heads, and can be had for a reasonable price.  The other vises are wonderful, too, but nothing beats the Regal in my view (for what it’s worth), and I’ve been tying flies for more than fifty years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? I’ve used a Renzetti Traveller for more than three years now and love it! It should be noted that I got no real experience with any other vices, except a few Indian ones that didn’t last me long. I guess the locking could be an handicap, but I’ve never missed it for my tying (mostly saltwater and salmon). And it travels real well! Inge

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I have responded several times to questions about the Renzetti Traveller. It is wonderful.  The issue of the rotation not locking is a non issue. What makes the Renzetti system so nice is that the rotation of the hook shaft is central, due to the offset jaws.  Therefore, there is no tendency for the vice to rotate under load.  The other thing that is very nice about the Traveller that is not true of the higher priced Renzettis; it will rotate in both directions.  This is very useful if you tie ribbing reverse-wrapped over palmered hackle, such as in a Spey salmon or steelhead fly.   Crashjibe

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writes: My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise.

I have both a Regal and a Renzetti Traveller. I love the Renzetti. It works very well, is very well designed, and weighs only 8 ounces! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I’m relatively new to tying.  After breaking my beginner $13 Indian vise, I bought a Renzetti Traveller.  I really like the Traveller–but admitedly I don’t have much experience for comparisons.   By the way, you CAN lock the rotation by increasing the drag sufficiently, although it’s not overwhelmingly convenient.

Response:

The Traveller is the BEST vise for someone upgrading from a beginners-type vise. The price is right, and it will be years before he outgrows the vise and feels he needs a more sophisticated one. And then he will have one for traveling and one for the home base!!!

Response:

My brother wants to buy a Renzetti Traveller.  Should I try to talk him out of it?  If so, should he get a Regal or a more expensive Renzetti? Right now he is suffering with one of those $13 Indian vises, so he does need a new vise. I am bothered a little bit by the fact that the Traveller’s rotation does not lock.  Is this a real handicap, or am I rationalizing my fidelity to my Thompson Pro? — Keep your stick on the ice.

Response:

I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

Response:

I really enjoy tying with mine, it’s all I need in a vise.  

Have you tried a Regal vise yet?  I have an Inex (their cheapest model) and I love it.  Sometimes I wish it were a rotary, but that’s only once and a while.  The spring loaded clamping method they use is really neat.  Just work the handle and insert a hook. One problem though.  If you don’t put the hook in enough, it may pop out and chip the tip of the jaws.  I did that twice then sent it back.  They fixed it for free, but made it clear that the next time I do that it will cost $25 for a new set of jaws.  Plus I have kids, so I have to find every hook I drop.  One flew over 10 feet out into the hall.  Thank goodness hooks are made out of ferrous (sp?) metal. I was wondering if other cam-type vises do this too?   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Question:

Looking for info on effectiveness of home page for a fly shop.  Trying to convince the local shop I haunt to go electronic.  How’s it working?

Response:

Has anyone seen any Fly shops advertising on the net.  Please Email your answer to me as I can’t always use the net as often as I would like.  My Thanks Ken L.

Response:

Hey Mike, Love to send you our Catalog on a Disk, just send me your Postal Address and we’ll get it right off.  Oh, by the way we will have our Home Page up and running in a very short time…2-3 weeks, Best regards, Tom and Lyle King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. P.O. Box 304 Addison, IL 60101 1-800-FISH-670

Response:

Hey Mike, Love to send you our Catalog on a Disk, just send me your Postal Address and we’ll get it right off.  Oh, by the way we will have our Home Page up and running in a very short time…2-3 weeks, Best regards, Tom and Lyle King of the Hill Fly Fishing Co. P.O. Box 304 Addison, IL 60101 1-800-FISH-670

I just wanted to mention that I received a catalog from Tom within just a few days after I sent him my address.  I thought the catalog was well laid out and very easy to use.  My bosses boss is also a die-hard flyfisherman (that has nothing to do why I work here) and  I showd it to him as well. His first comment was "I have no use for this. It doesn’t have any pictures." That may be something that you’ll want to keep in mind when creating the home page.  For example, he is in the market for a pontoon boat or high quality float tube.  There were several of them listed but without pictures or a description more than one line long it’s pretty difficult to select one of them. Overall I thought the catalog was pretty good.  It wasn’t all hype nor make any wild claims about "the lowest price in town" or any of that other marketing B.S.  It could use more work but it’s a good start. — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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