Question:

Hi Scott, Considering that it would be ~$15,000 new, I don’t think you can go too wrong at the price. It might be a "gas hog"? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello fellow boaters, I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: 1979 Crestliner, aluminum -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) -has a sterring console -livewell -auto bilge pump -looks to be in good shape, not beat up -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet -good trailer -comes with 3 portable ga tanks -a couple of pedestal seats I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space and boat layout. i also like the jet. Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance on the boat. If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe an extra pedestal seat. let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure to get their water feed?  Just curious Thanks! scott

Response:

Hello fellow boaters, I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: 1979 Crestliner, aluminum -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) -has a sterring console -livewell -auto bilge pump -looks to be in good shape, not beat up -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet -good trailer -comes with 3 portable ga tanks -a couple of pedestal seats I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space and boat layout. i also like the jet. Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance on the boat. If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe an extra pedestal seat. let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure to get their water feed?  Just curious Thanks! scott

Response:

Nada doesn’t support a 1979 boat, and I don’t know which model it is. By the way, the boat is a 16′. -scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try: www.nada.com # Hello fellow boaters, # # I just sold my little old 12 footer with a 9.9 Johnson in favor of # something a little bigger, and here is a boat I am interested in: # # 1979 Crestliner, aluminum # -open bow, nice carpeted wood flooring (recently re-done) # -has a sterring console # -livewell # -auto bilge pump # -looks to be in good shape, not beat up # -1987 85hp Force outboard w/jet # -good trailer # -comes with 3 portable ga tanks # -a couple of pedestal seats # # I am going for a test ride this weekend and will do a compression test # as well. this boat is set up well for fishing, i like the storage space # and boat layout. i also like the jet. # # Before anyone goes on about jets, I am more than familiar with the pros # and cons, and I have to have a jet due to the places I go.  The owner # said the boat will go about 32mph with a decent load – this is more than # fine for me.  as long as it gets up on plane and goes ( i will not be # pulling skiers or anything… just fishing). # # the owner is asking $2750 – does this seems fair (considering he # probably overpriced it a little bit as we all do when selling # something)? Engine runs well, and he has seemed to do good maintenance # on the boat. # # If I decide to get this boat I will add a bow-mount trolling motor # (probably a minn kota 50# thrust) for fishing, a fish finder, and maybe # an extra pedestal seat. # # let me know what you guys think.  oh – one other question: i am more # familiar with inboard jets and big jet boats than outboad jets: do # outboard jet units still have a seperate impeller to cool the engine # (like it would with a prop), or do they just work off the bowl pressure # to get their water feed?  Just curious # # Thanks! # # scott #

Response:

Thanks Jim. I have done more reseach, and I am going for a test drive today and possibly to buy it if the compression checks out on all 3 cylinders and if I don’t see any red flags. -scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a previous poster suggested NADA, I say use NADA if you’re going to buy, to help you negotiate.  I don’t know which ass NADA pulls its numbers  from, but according to NADA, I got ripped off buying a boat, motor and trailer for $500.   The boat  you’re looking at, stay away from.  Forget the deal.  Just give me than name and number for the person selling this setup at this price!  I’ll handle it from here.  :^)   Seriously tho, it sounds like a GREAT deal.  If you would be happy with it at that price, then that’s what really matters!  From what you say, I believe *I* would be! -Jim

Response:

As a previous poster suggested NADA, I say use NADA if you’re going to buy, to help you negotiate.  I don’t know which ass NADA pulls its numbers  from, but according to NADA, I got ripped off buying a boat, motor and trailer for $500.   The boat  you’re looking at, stay away from.  Forget the deal.  Just give me than name and number for the person selling this setup at this price!  I’ll handle it from here.  :^)   Seriously tho, it sounds like a GREAT deal.  If you would be happy with it at that price, then that’s what really matters!  From what you say, I believe *I* would be! -Jim

Response:

Question:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins?

Hi Steve; Sorry, but I can’t help you with the boat question.  Nor have I ever used force fins.  But I did buy myself a cheap pair of fins from K-Mart or some such for about $20 and found them to be very satisfactory.  These are the type of fins routinely worn by scuba divers.  They have a very large fin surface and have a pocket designed to fit over the entire foot.  Of course, this means they are not adjustable so you will have to buy two pair if you intend to go wet sometimes and in waders at others.  You would still be $60 ahead of the game.  Once, when I left my fins at home, I borrowed a pair of Caddis fins from a friend.  These were the type that strap on over a wading boot.  I was appalled at how hard I had to work in order to move at all with these fins.  It wasn’t much better than having none at all.  The cheap scuba style fins, on the other hand, allow me to move my U-shaped boat at a pace which lets me to keep up with anyone I’ve fished with and with only moderate effort. It seems to me that the critical difference between the two styles is the length of the blade.  All else being equal, a longer blade on the fin will make propulsion a lot easier. Good luck.

Response:

Steve: Like Wolfgang, I don’t have much ability to comment on the benefits of a FatCat, but unlike Wolfgang, I can say I would NEVER trade my Force Fins for anything else. Yes, I was appalled at the price, but having tried more conventional fins, the difference is like night & day. If a little wind picks up, you’ll appreciate having every little bit of extra power. BTW, I have a U-boat from The Creek Co., and have been very happy with it. Good value for the price – mail order from Cabela’s. (or maybe Bass Pro Shop, can’t remember which) I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins?

Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

See if Cabela’s still has that great deal on the original Clear Creek U-boat. I think I paid $119 and they throw in the Clear Creek fins.  The fins are good quality but won’t accept wading boots and without a small boot like the Flats you’ll scrunch your toes. Steve C

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

Steve,     I have the Force Fins for use with my Wading Boots. I also have Contact Scuba Fins. While I get more thrust from the Contacts I find I don’t use them any more since I got my Force Fins. The Force allow me to keep from tearing up the bottom of my waders while loading my pontoon boat and they are much easier to put on. The main difference I notice is that the Scuba fins provide the most thrust on the down stroke and the Force fins on the up stroke. For me this means that I have less fatigue in my legs at the end of the day. As for the FatCat, I have talked with two or three people who have them and I think I will probably purchase one for myself. At about 7 lbs they are light enough to pack in (My Pontoon weighs in at 35 lbs.) and they will hold my weight 300+. They are actually easier to kick than a typical u-boat or tube because of the bottom on them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

Response:

I’m new to still water fly fishing, and am in the market for a float tube or equivalent.  Several of my local fly shops are pushing the Outcast PAC 66 Fat Cat ($269).  What do you think of this design?  You sit higher in the water than in a typical float tube or V-boat – which has the advantage of keeping you drier and warmer.  Wouldn’t you be blown around more with a higher profile?  Are there other devices that are better for the same price? Is it really worth paying $100 for Force Fins? Thanks in advance. Steve

I own a Super Fat Cat and love it.  I was fishing a lake last year that is notorious for the wind kicking up around noon.  The wind kicked up a little early this day (10:00) and I was barely able to paddle back to the launching area.  There were many tubers fishing and they were all blown off the water except for this one guy who just kept on fishing. I hung around a while to get a look at what he was fishing in and it was an Outcast Super Fat Cat.  I rented one the next trip to this lake and loved it. I noticed that it moves a lot faster for the same kick than any other U/V boat I have tried.  I highly recommend the Super Fat Cat.  I would also have to recommend the Force Fins as well.  I haven’t used a fin that gives as much as a push that is so easy to push through the water.  Even on lakes where the white-caps are racing accross the surface, my legs don’t cramp at the end of the day. It is true that the Super Fat Cat and Fat Cat have you sit higher  and are therefore more exposed to the wind, but it also reduces the amount of water that must be displaced to move the boat.  My experience is that the Super Fat Cat with Force Fins is a great combination for a windy lake. — John Strock `)))<               <`)))<                    <`)))<

        <`)))<   <     `)))<          <`)))<     `)))<                  <`)))<              `)))<

Response:

Gary: Could you explain this setup a little more fully?  I’m curious how the string is attached to the bag & how the mouth of the bag stays open. them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary

Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

The way I used it was to simply tie a small bridal to each of the handles. It ends up working similar to a parachute. If you have troubles keeping the mouth open you can make a frame on the mouth with some drinking straws and scotch tape to hold them to the bag. Since there isn’t much water pressure this might work better. Gary — — LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone sending unsolicited commercial email to this address will be charged a $500 proofreading fee. This is an official notification; failure to abide by this will result in legal action, as per the following: By U.S. Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, by each violation.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gary: Could you explain this setup a little more fully?  I’m curious how the string is attached to the bag & how the mouth of the bag stays open. them. This allows for better water movement under you when you kick. Yes they may be a little harder to use in the wind but this can be easily taken care of with a plastic grocery bag tied to a small string and attached to a d-ring. Gary Richard Menlo Park, CA Remove "spambegone" or "nospam" from e-mail address for direct reply

Response:

Question:

I have a Cortland 7" 3/4 wt. rod, is this good for pond fishing in a canoe? I am new to fly fishing although I have 2 old 9" rods. Thanks Mike — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

As with so many things in life, it isn’t how big it is that matters, it’s what you do with it. I take three rods in my canoe, depending on what I’m fishing for.  For bass I use a 10ft 7 wt (big honkin’ rod).  For trout on a dry fly (or bluegills), I have a lovely 8′6" 4wt.  And for trout on streamers I prefer a 9′ 6wt.   If you canoe with someone else, consider carefully how many rods you can fit in the canoe without increasing the risk of stepping on a rod tip. I have a Cortland 7" 3/4 wt. rod, is this good for pond fishing in a canoe? I am new to fly fishing although I have 2 old 9" rods. Thanks Mike — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

– James A. Foster                                Assoc. Prof Center for Secure & Dependable Computing/SCI   U. of Idaho http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster              208.885.7062 pgp key at: ftp://ftp.cs.uidaho.edu/pub/foster/pgp-key.asc

Response:

Thanks James, You forgot to say how many rods will fit in a van before one meets up with the door as did my last one.

Response:

Mike     I fish from a canoe also, and feel the 7 footer is a bit of a handicap since it limits how much line you can comfortably pickup. Stillwater conditions frequently call for casting in different directions on short notice,especially when the fish are really on the move, and the short rod would make me crazy. I’d recommend nothing shorter than 8 feet. Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a Cortland 7" 3/4 wt. rod, is this good for pond fishing in a canoe? I am new to fly fishing although I have 2 old 9" rods. Thanks Mike — Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

Response:

Question:

I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?       i live in greensboro, stephen; give me a call when you will, and i will supply the necessary information about trout locations.       a. wayne harrison       336-275-1231

Hi Wayne, I though this posting would get you moving:-) Give him a welcome with some choice Welsh phrases try Croeso (Croyso)- it means Welcome. Keep the other phrases in reserve for emergencies. Regards, — Bill

Response:

says… I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

– Stephen, Contrary to popular belief, thar’s no trout in NC. Nada, zippo, nonewhatsoever…. ok, now that I’ve told my fib, give Wayne (previous msg.) a call and maybe drag his butt up here also. Plenty of streams with trout, even some over 6" (ref: s. cooper). I’ll be happy to share some info with you, just e-mail when you’re settled in. –Walt The Blue Ridge Book Gallery | We are located 8 miles south of Boone on Rt. 1 Box 975-23            | Hiway 105 in Foscoe in the heart of the Banner Elk, NC 28604        | beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains. Please (704) 963-5001              | visit us when you’re in the area.                             |  Thanks….Marie & Walter Winter http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter/         also on Interloc…

Response:

I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

Response:

I’ll be moving from the NYC area to Greensboro NC in January. Any flyfishing info would be much appreciated. I’m guessing I’ve gotta head west for a couple of hours to see any trout. Where should I go? How about bass in local lakes and ponds?

        i live in greensboro, stephen; give me a call when you will, and i will supply the necessary information about trout locations.         a. wayne harrison         336-275-1231

Response:

Question:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule.

You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10!

Great! But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages.

Ummm, you need to check out Mountain Gear more often.  Two days from now, saturday the 16th, Mad River is having a demo days on the Spokane river in conjunction with Mountain Gear.  M.G. also bring a lot of kayaks. Additionally, M.G. makes a weekly trip to the river to demo their boats…it must be tough being an employee there.  Get their schedule. Call them if you want a particular boat brought for you to try.  We are less than an hour from you; how have you missed this?

Response:

Well, I got home from Stanley to see my new Jive 8-10 sitting in my shop. Haven’t paddled it, but it looks like a great boat for a big person.  Similar to the Hammer (and about as roomy), similar kind of forward rocker, but more balanced bow and stern volume.  Doesn’t look like a squirter, but I’ll take it out and get back to folks. Thanks for all the input– though I ended up doing what I did, reading about all the different boats helped.  Looks like the 8-10 will be good for other big folks, and we can start having the fun without the misery that smaller folks have been having in some of the cooler boats. DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week. Chuck You did manage to pick one of the very few boats I have not paddled.   I would think that you made an excellent choice though.   A souped up bigger Jive should be a very good river running play boat.  They had an excellent hull already and I am assuming they have improved it. Am I correct in what I am thinking this boat is? Scott Bristow

– Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project 1031 Spring Valley Rd. Troy, ID 83871 208-835-2999 (Voice and FAX) Call before sending FAX To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

<<DISCLAIMER:  I have not! paddled either the Jive 8-10 or the Hammer, just sat in them.  I’ll file an update after I get out this week.  Chuck New boats, before you paddle them, are just like the next generation of computer operating systems:  they will solve ALL the problems with what you are using now.  That is, until you actually start using them. -Ray

Response:

    After fifteen years of  K-1 white-water paddling, I’ve gone over…..Gone over to the Dark Side.  To please the Lady, the Light and Love of my life (but…hey that’s another thread) I took an Orvis fly-fishing course this weekend. There I was… standing STILL in a river that I have paddled many times. I couldn’t help but think about my boating-self sliding by my new found fishing-self and how both of us felt. I (boating) have always tried to be silent and circumspect when passing anglers. Courtesy and etiquette (yet another thread?) seem to demand nothing less. Tis a lesson to be learned tho…. to walk a mile in another man’s uh….hip boots.  Fishing for trout is as incredible complex as learning linked cartwheels and mystery moves. And, I found out this weekend, as addictive. It came as a small revelation when our instructor informed us that trout can be spooked by the shadow of a fly-line passing overhead. Made me wonder what the shadow of a nine foot boat must do. I asked our instructor what he thought of  kayakers. I was expecting a diatribe but he turned to me and said, "Sure looks like fun…. and most of um try to be real quiet, too."  Maybe there is hope for us yet!

Response:

Well, for all those who have followed my insipid malarkey about buying a new boat, well, I did.  I bought a Jive 8-10! I haven’t seen it (it’s coming from Portland today), I haven’t paddled it– but living in N. Idaho, I wouldn’t be able to do that kind of thing anyway.  I told Young Scott that he was lucky being able to put all those different cool boats in one spot and paddle away– and, ya know, I do miss that warm SE whitewater (I lived in Durham before I moved out here).  Paddling w/out dry gear is the exception– not the rule. But as with every situation, there are disadvantages (no demo days unless you want to go to Portland!) — but there are also advantages. We floated Lolo Ck., a classic Class IV-V run, 18 miles, one hour from my house, last weekend.  There was only one other party on the river– another group of friends (gloat). Gotta do the enviro thing this weekend (keep those rivers running free with actual trees next to them), but hopefully, I’ll be up on that big ole Lochsa wave, 360-ing away next week!  Stay tuned. Chuck — Charles Pezeshki, Director Clearwater Biodiversity Project To check out my new book, "Wild to the Last: Environmental Conflict in the Clearwater Country", go to http://publications.urel.wsu.edu:80/Press/WildtoLast.html

Response:

Question:

BULLSHIT.

 Really Cartman? (Great handle btw) that was profound.  Care to elaborate further?

Response:

There is also a program available called "Cookie Cruncher".  It is freeware. You can then allow cookies to be set (preventing cookies can be such a pain because of the constant messages from the browser) and delete them at the end of the session with CC. You can delete all of them or just specific ones.  Sometimes you may want to leave a cookie in place because it may contain your specific preferences about a website.  Not all cookies are bad. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How do I tell when I am being passed a "cookie" & how can I stop a site from accessing my hard drive? From what I hear they can come in and almost get your shorts size off your computer. <G Most browser have settings on whether or not to accept cookies, either with a warning or not at all. FWIW, most cookies store information about what *you* did or entered while visiting a site so you won’t have to do or enter it the next time, not the contents of your hard drive. — Charlie… Thanks. Found it on my browser & xed the box. Kiyu

Response:

I’d like to know just what kind of invasion you think Loomis or any other site my make by using a cookie? So would I, just what kind of info are they looking for – and just who gives them the right to snoop in my computer anyway?

They don’t have the right to snoop  your HD.  And, most likely they are not.  They DO have the right to check on your activity on their site and keep track of it.  That’s what cookies do. Companies like loomis use them to keep track of their potential customers, and their activities in their web site Good point – which is why they did not get my information.  I have no intention of becoming a customer.  Let’s say you go into a fly shop and the clerk follows you around and whenever you go to look at a rod or reel or anything else he says, " before you can look at this item you have to tell me where else you have been shopping and any other information I want or you can’t look at it". Would you do business there?  If on the otherhand they ask me to fill out a survey and I have the time, I just might do that.

Shop owners keep track too.  If nobody seems interested in a particular product they won’t buy any more of it.  They may not follow you around the store, but they ARE paying attention – atleast they should be if they want to stay in business. What else would they want?  Are you keeping a pirated copy of one of their fly rods on your hard drive?  Are you distributing specs on their golf club shafts from home via the net? I am sure I have no idea what else they would want, but as long as they are not going to disclose what information they are seeking, I am not going to give them the opportunity to snoop around in my hard drive.  It’s a question of privacy.  If in order to view their products I have to open my computer up to them, I just simply am not going to look.

You don’t.  You simply accept what amounts to a text file that the site writes to every time you log in.  It beats having some poor schmuck watching logfiles on the server to see what you’re doing (another way to gather info). If Loomis really wanted to find out things about _you_ there are better ways to do it without building some devious little executable to sneak in as a cookie to scan your hard drive. Just knowing that that is possible is reason enough not to accept cookies.

Y’know, you probably don’t even realize it, but you hit sites every day, that check to see what browser you’re using and what plugins are available, and it redirects you to an appropriate file you can see.  Most sites use JavaScript to do this.  Some sites use server-side techniques to do this, but most use JavaScript.  You download it and it goes to work. Cookies aren’t a whole lot different. And hitting this newsgroup is a lot more dangerous to your system that any website.  All kinds of evil, nasty things can be spread by seemingly innocent usenet posts. And as a person who make a living from that same kind of technology, I can say that e-commerce on the web – a thing most of want to see – is almost impossible without cookies and similar technology. That is ridiculous.  I do a lot of business on the WWW, and  I do not accept cookies.  I have never had a problem with a legitimate company even if I did not accept their cookies, and I have never been locked out of a WWW business site for not accepting one before Loomis.  The only reason you want the "cookie" technology is so that you can direct your advertising dollars more wisely.  There is nothing wrong with that as long as the information given up is done so on a voluntary basis.  Most companies allow that choice.  Loomis does not.  Therefore I choose not to do business with them.  

People get, and take info about you all the time in every walk of life.   People who want to know, or need to know, can get scads of info about you without your ever knowing it. And the worst part of it is, you don’t really know what the Loomis cookie is doing, do you?  Chances are it’s only logging your activity on their site and nothing more.  What else could they possibly want to know?  What email program you use?  What good would that do them. My slant is they want to know what you’re doing so they can use it to improve their site or product line and nothing else. And if you’re son parnoid about the net, I would suggest you get off of it and try something a little more passive. </c

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This post started as a fly-fishing post (Loomis website) but has turned into a computer debate. Decide what you want to do and do it. If you want to continue this post, please move it to rec.computer.people.with.too.much.idle.time.on.their.hands.      Thanks,       Bryce

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BULLSHIT. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Before you go condemning G. Loomis, you should really make sure you really understand what cookies do.  Often times, they are simply used to track repeat visitors.  If you look at the kind of data stored in a cookie, you will see it isn’t really a big deal, and can actually be helpful… For example, the Amazon.com web site sends a cookie to its customers, and when I connect to the web site, it is able to read the cookie and know who I am, what my book and layout preferences are, and simplifies the ordering process… They really aren’t any all that dangerous to your privacy…

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How do I tell when I am being passed a "cookie" & how can I stop a site from accessing my hard drive? From what I hear they can come in and almost get your shorts size off your computer. <G Most browser have settings on whether or not to accept cookies, either with a warning or not at all. FWIW, most cookies store information about what *you* did or entered while visiting a site so you won’t have to do or enter it the next time, not the contents of your hard drive. — Charlie…

Thanks. Found it on my browser & xed the box. Kiyu

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Well, I agree that cookies aren’t very significant invasions of privacy

Question:

I am going on a business trip to Sacramento and am wondering if there are places nearby where I can slip away for some trout fly fishing?

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I am going on a business trip to Sacramento and am wondering if there are places nearby where I can slip away for some trout fly fishing?

Lots of them, most will require some driving.  Call Alan Barnard or Bill Kiene at Kiene’s fly shop in Sacramento.  They will treat you right and honest;   1 800 4000 FLY. — Tim Ackerman "everyone lives downstream"

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Question:

Tara: I am also a fly tyer. What sort of info are you looking for? I believe we have an unfair advantage against the non-stitching tyers — we have so much more in the way of dexterity. Females’ fingers are also so much smaller than males’, so the small hooks and feathers are easier for us to manipulate. We also have experience in handling fibers, in coordinating colors, and combining textures. I’ve been tying for about 15 years now; been stitching for about 25. JulieAnn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’m curious if any stitchers know anything about fly tying?  I’ve been interested in this for years, and lo and behold, my SO is an avid fisherman. I am also lurking in the rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying, but it seems so male dominated, and you are all so friendly. Plus if any of you have tried it, you could give me the heads up in terms I understand. TIA Tara

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

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Tara: I’ve tried fly tying, and it was fun, but I never took it up as a hobby. I’m sure SO is thrilled when you express interest in fly tying. My SO’s fisherman roommates were deeply impressed to find out that I had tried fly tying, but they were even more impressed when I told them that one of my female friends from high school had taken it up as a hobby at the behest of her fisherman husband. I saw one of the guys giving his fianc

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I am 10 years old have been fly fishing for 2 1/2 years. I would like to hear from other kids who are interested in fly fishing. Matt- North Carolina

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I am advisor to a fly fishing club at our middle school here in Bozeman.   I had our first meeting yesterday, and we had 18 students!  I did this the last two years and average 6-8 students.  I’d be interested to know if anyone else is doing anything like I am trying.  Would be interested in sharing information.  Dave Kumlien, Bozeman, MT

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(David Kumlien) writes: I am advisor to a fly fishing club at our middle school here in Bozeman. I had our first meeting yesterday, and we had 18 students!  I did this the last two years and average 6-8 students.  I’d be interested to know if anyone else is doing anything like I am trying.  Would be interested in sharing information.  Dave Kumlien, Bozeman, MT

What a great idea, Dave.  I, for one, would really like to hear of your experiences, and I may have a thought or two to throw in now and then.  By all means, keep posting! Kurt Steinbock

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Hi, I am 10 years old have been fly fishing for 2 1/2 years. I would like to hear from other kids who are interested in fly fishing. Matt- North Carolina

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Question:

        On my first ocean cruise in 1981, I bought some "Offshore" foul weather gear at R.E.I. in Seattle.  Total piece of shit. After some pretty rough usage (we lost a rudder) and 31 days at sea, the seams leaked.  I took them back to R.E.I.  They said that they wern’t meant for the kind of sailing I do, but for the "weekend" sailor."  I said "Well why the fuck! do you call it "Offshore"? To make a long story short, they wouldn’t refund my money and it just confirmed my opinion of R.E.I. as a fashion house for frustrated yuuppies. Growing up in Seattle, I have resisted the R.E.I Clone look mightily although I have to admit, Pile Jackets are great for me as I’m allergic to wool.         Where is this leading to?         Buy Helly Hansen fisherman foul weather gear. No seams, no fly, no pockets, NO LEAK!!!!  I’ve worn mine for 10 years fishing in Alaska and California and on many trans ocean sails.  Still wearing them.  My mother is borrowing them for a river rafting trip this month.  About $80 last time I bought (I have two pair) —

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A foulie jacket should either have built-in flotation, or be light and flexible enough to be worn comfortabley with a pfd. This rules out most of the jackets on the market, imho. Ever try to swim in foulies and boots? Either buy an expensive float-coat (very warm, too) or get a light nylon shell (the kind made for white-water canoeing are perfect) and use it in conjuction with sweater or fleece jacket and a pfd, when called for.

I used a canoeing jacket for a few seasons. I don’t agree that it is the best choice for heavy weather sailing. It worked fine for an occational light spray, but it didn’t hold up for the constant pounding with water on rough days. I would quickly get all soaked. It was an enormous improvement when I bought a real foul weather jacket. My usual advice to new sailors is to spend money on the pants and boots, and wait on the jacket.

This makes sense. You’ll quickly wear out any light pants. At least the jacket doesn’t have to take all that abrasive abuse. I wear my pfd inside of a seriously oversized jacket. I have found that this gives me less problems with condensation than doing it the other way. It also reduces the risk of getting tangled in or caought somewhere, and keeps your pfd dry (= fewer wet things in the boat, wich is nice if you’re out for several days.) I don’t think the heavy foul weather gear makes me less mobile. I may feel less mobile after a few hours of constant hard work in a heavy weather race, but that’s because I’m tired. /m

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     I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" that I may want to look for?                                                         Thanks,                                                                 Doug — Tar is not a play thing..I will not steal school property..Spit balls are not free speach..I will not bribe principal Skinner..I will not Xerox(tm) my butt .I will not teach others to fly..I will not do that thing with my tongue..BART

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:      I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the : boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and : see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking : for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. : Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" : that I may want to look for? :                                                       Thanks, :                                                               Doug : — : Tar is not a play thing..I will not steal school property..Spit balls are not : free speach..I will not bribe principal Skinner..I will not Xerox(tm) my butt : .I will not teach others to fly..I will not do that thing with my tongue..BART — Is that "West" as in West Marine?  My wife and I both have their "Explorer" (? I think) foul weather gear and we are very happy with it.  It did quite well in Practical Sailor’s review of foulies, as well.   The ONLY down side of it that I’ve found is that it is a little heavy for warm weather sailing.  Since that’s not usually a problem here in the Pacific NW, I’m quite happy with it. Chas Douglass/the "Emma Christine" + When I was in school, I cheated on my metaphysics exam.              + + I looked into the soul of the boy sitting next to me.                + + Woody Allen                                                          +

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:      I just got the notion to go up to the lake Erie and check the cover on the : boat this weekend.  While I am up there I may as well go by the West store and : see if they have any of there foul weather gear on sale.  I will be looking : for a warm waterproof jacket suitable for use in the spring or fall sailing. : Does anyone have any recomendations regarding particullar brands or "features" : that I may want to look for? :                                                  Thanks, :                                                          Doug

Waterproof helps. Seriously, a big thing I cared about that many jackets didn’t address was adequate sealing about the neck. a $500 Henri Lloyd isn’t much good when spray hits you and runs inside the jacket repeatedly!!!! I got a pretty good deal on serious offshore gear – from Boat/US, actually. They sell other companies’ gear with their name on it – I have heard doubts about the quality, although mine has lasted very well. I hear Gore-Tex (Helly-Tech, whatever!) eventually leaks, but mine works okay for light spray. The PVC coating in my heavier gear, along with the sealed cuffs and neck, keep me surprisingly warm. It’s really too warm for active races. Alan Moore My opinions only.

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