Question:

For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm

Response:

For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm

That’s fucking twisted, son…

Response:

That’s fucking twisted, son…

NO, HE SAID IT WAS *ALUMINUM*, NOT "TWISTED, SON."   HTH. <g — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

That’s fucking twisted, son…

<snipped Was just watching the news and heard……. twisted indeed. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm

        damn you, vern, you have no mercy!! wayno

Response:

For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm That’s fucking twisted, son…

Maybe, but the man knows his frogs.  You run a good service, burley. Scott

Response:

Not as bad as selling DNA though….. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm That’s fucking twisted, son… Maybe, but the man knows his frogs.  You run a good service, burley. Scott

Response:

If your interested, I could put you on to a Td Williams fly fishing outfit from sears…..never been used…. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For Sale: Ted Williams Sears Ice chest in original box with price tag and booklets. Taking offers. For photos please visit: http://205.160.242.2/~xenopus/tedwilliams.htm

Response:

Question:

All the other Waynes that hang out around here seem to like it also. Welcome! Big Dale

Response:

I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

  I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !!

Congratulations on the success.  Sorry to hear you have been afflicted with the fly fishing virus.  Once hooked, there is no turning back <g — Warren Findley Shut up and fish! For Yellowstone Clave info: http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

I just saw "Wayne" and continued to read.  I then realized that it was a new Wayne (and welcome to you).  Unfortunately, this means its time to cull the Wayne’s.  As a matter of fact, when we do, I want a jacket made from one. Yeah, thats right, Wayne’s coating.         Frank "There’s only two of us" Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

Yes, there is a wayne and a wayno….maybe he could be the bounding wayne? john

Response:

I just saw "Wayne" and continued to read.  I then realized that it was a new Wayne (and welcome to you).  Unfortunately, this means its time to cull the Wayne’s.  As a matter of fact, when we do, I want a jacket made from one. Yeah, thats right, Wayne’s coating.

Can’t spell?  Wains.  grin — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         Frank "There’s only two of us" Reid I went down the the small lake that is near my house. I have just started fly fishing and this was my 3rd time. I stuffed a few thing in the pockets of my jeans, threw on tennis shoes and scrammed. I tied on a small white popper and worked the shoreline along the dam. Only fished for about an hour but caught 2 small bass and a bluegill all on that small popper. They were small but they were fun to catch!! I released them all. I think I like this fly fishing !! wayne

Response:

Question:

It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example.

Please don’t mistake my post for a critique of Paul’s picture. His looks awesome and has a very high resolution. Plus he tied that fly himself for crying out loud. I’m just wondering when he’s going to fish with it There have been other threads of late about digital cameras and I think Paul’s image speaks highly of what a digital camera can do. In my post, I was simply commenting on how–in general–to get a solid-colored background. It was admittedly a bit of a non sequitur. –Steve

Response:

Steve, Thanks for the info…I was just pretty impressed by quality of the orig photo. I just bought my daughter a 35mm (by her request), but now am wondering if she would be better off just getting a digi. cam. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example. Please don’t mistake my post for a critique of Paul’s picture. His looks awesome and has a very high resolution. Plus he tied that fly himself for crying out loud. I’m just wondering when he’s going to fish with it There have been other threads of late about digital cameras and I think Paul’s image speaks highly of what a digital camera can do. In my post, I was simply commenting on how–in general–to get a solid-colored background. It was admittedly a bit of a non sequitur. –Steve

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Gorgeous fly, Paul, and a great photo. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hi, It was the Olympus 2020z with a wide angle adapter lens. With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Paul

Paul, it is a GREAT shot.  The shaded background gives the fly a perfect richness of depth, and truly highlights the colors. — "Of what service would militia be to you, when most probably you will not have a single musket in the State; for as arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them?" -Patrick Henry,  5 June 1788

Response:

It may just be my monitor, but I think I liked Paul’s shot better than the example. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Other general pointers… To get a white background, prop a piece of paper behind the fly. To avoid glare, block the overhead light using a clipboard or something similar, turn off the flash and then overexpose the shot. Here are a couple of examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/mosquito.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/humpy.jpg Sometimes it’s nice to have a other backgrounds with little or no glare as well. Same technique applies. For a black background, I’ve found that an Unreal Tournament T-shirt works pretty well . You can vary the amount of glare by blocking more or less overhead light. Examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0722.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0698.jpg Standard disclaimer… I’m an amateur photographer at best (but I have tried lots and lots of close up shots, most of which look pretty crappy). I defer to RW and Wayno for "real" photos. –Steve

Response:

… http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg …

Ooooo, ahhhhhh. That reel sure goes nicely with a Hamilton Rod. What is that, a Peerless ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp.

Other general pointers… To get a white background, prop a piece of paper behind the fly. To avoid glare, block the overhead light using a clipboard or something similar, turn off the flash and then overexpose the shot. Here are a couple of examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/mosquito.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/humpy.jpg Sometimes it’s nice to have a other backgrounds with little or no glare as well. Same technique applies. For a black background, I’ve found that an Unreal Tournament T-shirt works pretty well . You can vary the amount of glare by blocking more or less overhead light. Examples: http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0722.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0764.jpg http://www.hamiltonrods.com/images/DCP_0698.jpg Standard disclaimer… I’m an amateur photographer at best (but I have tried lots and lots of close up shots, most of which look pretty crappy). I defer to RW and Wayno for "real" photos. –Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for putting it on-line; my _great_ (sic) provider does provide me with the replies, but not with the binary . Great looking fly! Love the married slips. Looking at works of art like these, I remember the late Hans de Groot, a well known flytier from the Netherlands. He was tying a salmon fly at an exhibition. Some guy was watching him, and asked Hans how much he wanted for it, once he finished. ‘I don’t sell flies’ he murmured under his beard, and slowly and meticulously continued tying his fly. ‘I give you a hundred guilders for it’ said the man, palming his wallet. ‘I don’t sell flies’, was the undisturbed reply. This went on, a sweating man bidding up, Hans slowly finishing his fly. When he was finished he looked at a young boy, who head eyed every step of the process. ‘Do you like it?’ ‘Yes’ ‘It’s yours, take it.’ The now red with anger guy looked at Hans, who calmly said.. ‘I told you. I don’t sell flies..’ He is missed. Herman

And the modern American ending to the story: The boy then turned to the angry man and said, "It will be up on E-Bay in the morning."

Response:

1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg

Which camera? Mu

Response:

Hi, It was the Olympus 2020z with a wide angle adapter lens. With that adapter and the undocumented macro mode I was able to get 1.9" from the fly. I lit the fly with my halogen desk lamp. Paul . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg Which camera? Mu

Response:

Very kind of you Paul, thanks.   The fly looks very nice, and the photo is good as well. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul

Response:

Thanks for putting it on-line; my _great_ (sic) provider does provide me with the replies, but not with the binary . Great looking fly! Love the married slips. Looking at works of art like these, I remember the late Hans de Groot, a well known flytier from the Netherlands. He was tying a salmon fly at an exhibition. Some guy was watching him, and asked Hans how much he wanted for it, once he finished. ‘I don’t sell flies’ he murmured under his beard, and slowly and meticulously continued tying his fly. ‘I give you a hundred guilders for it’ said the man, palming his wallet. ‘I don’t sell flies’, was the undisturbed reply. This went on, a sweating man bidding up, Hans slowly finishing his fly. When he was finished he looked at a young boy, who head eyed every step of the process. ‘Do you like it?’ ‘Yes’ ‘It’s yours, take it.’ The now red with anger guy looked at Hans, who calmly said.. ‘I told you. I don’t sell flies..’ He is missed. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to [snip]

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to obtain APBF, and I would certainly like to look at some of the things being posted there.

I don’t know how well it will work, but there’s a site… http://www.imira.com that will host photo albums. I just created a group for ROFF name: roff password: roffroff   (it wanted at least 6 characters) You can create various albums and subalbums there, but I haven’t tried it out yet.      - Ken

Response:

After 8<

Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view. again, very nice… you have talent. Walt

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After 8< Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view. again, very nice… you have talent. Walt

Response:

That’s no highlander, where’s the kilt! But more to the point – will you fish it? Seriously, there’s a huge amount of work in that fly and the makings of a serious addiction.  I’m always amazed at the patience and artistry in these things.  Far more than this feeble tier can manage. Hats off. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

I just posted nice things about your fly but I after hearing you brag about your 22′ flat screen I’m taking it all back.  <g Peter (still squinting at a bent tube) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

much better! walt

Response:

I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly.

And speaking of gear whores… –Steve

Response:

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to obtain APBF, and I would certainly like to look at some of the things being posted there. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cut it in half (800×600) and posted it to APBF for those who are diagonally challenged. I just got a 22" flat screen and the picture fits perfectly. Paul

Response:

Purty fly!! Willi

Response:

Mike, I just pushed the files up to my site. 1600×1200, 384KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander.jpg 800×600, 69KB http://www.paul.goodwinweb.com/greenhilander800×600.jpg If there are photos posted to APBF in the future that you want to see send me a note and I’ll load them for you. Paul

Is there any way we could obtain some ROFF space somewhere for pictures like this, even temporary space for a week or so?  I am completely unable to

[snip]

Response:

After threatening to do it for a few years I sat down and tied a classic salmon fly. I tied a green highlander and posted a picture of it on APBF. There are a bunch of things I need to work on and I did take a couple of shortcuts but it’s not bad for a first try. This was a test for tying one on some antique blind eye salmon hooks I have. The picture is about 400KB and quite revealing. With the naked eye I thought the body was smooth. The naysayers of digital cameras might want to look at the detail that the camera captured.

Great photo of a true work of art! Thanks Paul. — "Of what service would militia be to you, when most probably you will not have a single musket in the State; for as arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them?" -Patrick Henry,  5 June 1788

Response:

After 8< Paul, very, very nice. May I suggest that you modify the width of the jpeg to 500-600 pixels? This will load the pic on a 15 or 17 inch monitor and allow the viewer to see the complete fly in all of it’s glory w/o having to use sidebars to view.

I still have no way of viewing ABPF, but a 500 pixel width will cover less than 1/3 of my screen (it’s the resolution, not the size of the monitor that matters). Guess it doesn’t matter, since I can’t see it, but if I could I’d prefer bigger images and people can shrink them if they have less resolution, it’s impossible to make them bigger from smaller images.      - Ken

Response:

After threatening to do it for a few years I sat down and tied a classic salmon fly. I tied a green highlander and posted a picture of it on APBF. There are a bunch of things I need to work on and I did take a couple of shortcuts but it’s not bad for a first try. This was a test for tying one on some antique blind eye salmon hooks I have. The picture is about 400KB and quite revealing. With the naked eye I thought the body was smooth. The naysayers of digital cameras might want to look at the detail that the camera captured.

Response:

Question:

Is it possible for you or I to create a newsgroup? If so can you tell me how. Chris

Response:

Is it possible for you or I to create a newsgroup? If so can you tell me how.

It is possible, but highly unlikely, that as few as 100 people could create a Usenet newsgroup. Posting such a query to a Usenet flyfishing group isn’t the best way to get a how-to. Go to the news.admin.* hierarchy. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Michael,    I think this group has determined that fly size is more important than color.  Of course presentation is important but that is not a characteristic of the fly. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while. Michael Roegner

Response:

Dave,    I would rather have a glass of beer.  We know that colors darken when wet, and that the fish is usually looking at a back lighted object.  We are not certain what light spectrum the fish sees.  The impression the fly makes when sitting on the water or trapped bubbles on a rising insect are probably more important than the exact shade of the insect.  The more you know about the insect the more likely you are to tie a good imitation.  The beer is handy for sipping while tying.  The real test of the fly will come when you present it to the fish. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave

Response:

I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death.   I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".  

I was wondering if anyone would else would comment on this. This conjured up the image of some robotic like insects chewing up rocks.           That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  

I’ve brought this topic up in the past and not much interest was generated. In fact one poster said he couldn’t think of anything more boring. (I guess talking about someone’s underwear etc. has more interest to this person) I pretty much agree with you. Presentation is where it’s at. Fly size however, is VERY important. Pattern type is next i.e.. up wing, down wing, emerger, etc. Color is not very important. An exception to this is with heavily fished C&R waters, especially in tailwaters with their limited range of insect types. Some fish in these places can become hyperselective to pattern and color. This is just one of the peculiarities these fish exhibit.         What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.

My advice to new anglers is to spend less time on changing flies and more time on making a good presentation. Stalk a fish to get closer, change position, make more or different mends, change tippet length or size, add or remove weight etc. etc. etc. Correct presentation is a very broad and complex topic. It’s the most difficult of the skills in flyfishing.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.

I also think that searching for the "perfect" fly is futile. I’ve never run into the situation where there was a "right" fly although some other posters here swear they have been in this situation. I fish mainly a range of different styles of flies in a range of sizes rather than specific patterns. I probably use about 4 different styles 90% of the time. Willi

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat.

Bugs eat rocks? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water?

I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Response:

How many feathers do you use for the wing ? What kind of tailing, now that I’m ask a million questions.;-)   I like this pattern as well but it floats for only a short period, in my experence. I think the tailing is very important  with slow water bugs and CDC. I like Compara dun style better for slower water.  I especially like them using CDC for the wing instead of deer. It’s my usual choice for mayfly feeding fish on flat water. They can also be changed to an emerger at streamside by flattening the wing along the back.  You can fish them dry, damp or wet. Versital fly. Willi

Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

Dale –         You’re not nuts at all, although I suspect that the reason why they turn the color of the rocks doesn’t really derive from the "rocks they eat".   I would expect that it has more to do with protective coloration – an insect has a much better chance of surviving to reproduce if their predators can’t pick them out against the background colors.         That having been said – I’m going to drop a pretty major bombshell here in the hopes of sparking some discussion.  I have found that precise pattern, precise coloration, etc., is generally pointless in most (if not all) flyfishing.   What I’ve generally found is that just about ANY fairly representative pattern will catch as many, and as large, fish as the most perfectly colored, precisely matched pattern.  This is an area of special interest for me, and I frequently test it by switching patterns to a off-color or more general pattern while my buddies obsess on "matching the hatch".   There doesn’t seem to be any difference at all.             What does make a difference?   Presentation is a major issue, being careful not to spook the fish,  observation of their feeding patterns,  ability to spot fish, knowledge of where they’re likely to hold, and patience.   If you cover those items, you’ll usually find that you can catch fish just fine with a pattern that doesn’t do such a precise job of matching the naturals.         I have a theory about all this – the myth that you have to match the naturals so precisely was created primarily to catch FISHERMEN rather than FISH.  And it has worked well, primarily because its always easier to tell yourself that "If I only had color X, or pattern Y, I’d be catching fish"  than it is to recognize that your own skills are what need improvement.           What do you think??   We need a good, ON-TOPIC bloodbath on this group, and we haven’t had one in quite a while.                                         Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Some may think I’m nuts about this also, but I think some of the color of the bugs is determined by the color of rocks they eat. For an example if the rocks are primaily granite their main color might take on a light pink effect as well as all the other colors. Big Dale

Response:

…         What do you think??  

I’ll pull out the weasel words on this one. While I tend to agree most of the time, I’ve been in situations, rarely, where a precise match would catch fish and no other fly would. I don’t remember the name of the stream but it’s just outside Jackson, WY. One of the toughest places I’ve ever fished. They were taking Callibaetis spinners and that was IT. Another data point is fishing Joe’s Hoppers on Slough Creek. So long as the fly was whole I had no trouble catching those big, dumb cutts but as soon as the turkey wing got just the least bit separated it was like turning off the lights. Put on a new hopper and the lights come back on. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)# ______  You make an excellent point Larry and its the same one I’ve offered for many years.  The wise fly tier will always "test-dress" a bit of sample dubbing or a fly at the fly tying bench with the fly dressing of their choice.  There is no sense in having a Light Cahill turning into a Dark Cahill after it gets wet beyond the desired shade required.  Of course my favorite choice shows the shade changes perfectly because it duplicates how the fly will look on the water to a finicky trout, and lets face it, there are more and more finicky, experienced, trout then ever before. Again Larry, I agree with you.  If it isn’t perfect at the bench, it won’t be perfect astream. Mr.G.

Response:

Good points Ernie and Harry, and some of the best looking dry fly’s on the water IMHO that I tie are Compara-dun’s out of "Compara-hatch" booklet by Caucci/Nasatsi. Easier to tie than the traditional ones for me, what is the consensus on compare vs. traditional here, besides the traditional might be better on slower water? Dave (Harry great photo’s on your site) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would use a photo, the colors of bugs disappear in minutes after death. I guess that from a lot of posts on here lately (thanks for all the great info) that I should include a glass of water at my bench when I tie. And a specimen of the fly itself. Dave "M Harry Mason www.Troutflies.com

Response:

On those that I’ve examined, the thorax is sort of a cream with dun mixed in and the abdomen is an olive with rust and the wings definitely a medium to dark dun. Like I’ve always said, nothing in nature is monotone… it’s always a mixture of colors and that’s why the best dubbing is blended from different materials and colors.  You never get exact matches and day-to-day, you’ll find the naturals in differing shades, depending on the weather, natural lighting conditions, time of day they hatch and other variables. Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system. Others? Larry #:)#

Response:

______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Funny – we’re using the same name for different insects. In Europe the Blue Winged Olive is the anglers name for the Ephemerella ignita. From May to September – don’t leave home without it! Some nice pics at: http://www.fishing-in-wales.co.uk/wildlife/insects/upwing/bwolive.htm Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

[snip] Also keep in mind, the color of your imitation is influenced by reflected light, how wet the materials get and other factors as well, so what comes off the vise is likely to look drastically different when it’s on the water….. and especailly when it’s viewed from beneath the water by a creature with a highly different vision system.

Is he talking about Louie?

Response:

Excellent book and excellent fly.  Perfect for Colorado and New Mexico streams. Well said, Mr. G DP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days)

It might be an altitude/sun thing ie. sun more intense at higher altitude. Out West cloud cover really makes a difference. They will hatch out on sunny days but much better with cloud cover.  If you’re on the stream on a sunny day and you get a period of cloud cover, even for a relatively short period of time, the hatch intensifies and the fish will start feeding.  When the sun comes out the whole thing stops. I’ve been on the river during partly cloudy days and have see this cycle repeated all day long. Willi

Response:

Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

Response:

BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Guys, I was on the Lower Kings River the other day and I picked up what was defined to me as a BWO or blue wing olive.  This was the first actual specimen I had ever seen.  Upon close examination, the thorax showed up to be what I would describe as a light yellowish olive or even a very light lime green color.  The wings were the standard gray which I believe is also called dun color. I tied up a few in the same color (from memory) using the parachute style, and they came out pretty nice after a few tries.  In speaking with a bud regarding this fly, he stated that he thought the thorax is often other colors such as gray, bluish or yellow.  Not that I doubt him, but I have not found any materials which show me other variations of the blue wing olive. I don’t see blue wing yellows or blue wing grays either. <g Any thoughts on this topic? Pete

Response:

And I always thought it meant "Budwiser With Onionrings" I guess I’ll have more room in my vest next time out for flies Dave ( the book is on my wish list, thanks George) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ______  Dear Pete: I suppose, one of the main flies in my arsenal is indeed various sizes of the "Blue Winged Olive Dun."  In fact, the majority of my finest flies that I tie are from the exact patterns as described in Ernie Scwiebert’s masterful work, "Matching The Hatch."  I personally think no fly fisherman would find themselves wanting on any stream in the United States if he tied up a half dozen of every fly in this magnificent book.  It is the base of my entire fly collection that I carry in my vest for the last 44 years! The Blue Winged Olive Duns along with the Iron Duns are perhaps the mainstay of a starting line on most streams, early in the season, especially the Iron Blue Dun on a river such as the Frying Pan, Gunnison, Blue River, Fire Hole, and the list goes on.  The Blue Winged Olive Dun has a total range across the United States from New York State, westward beyond Montana. I would suggest that these ‘Steak and Potato’ flies be best researched and tied out of the classic volume I have just mentioned.  I don’t think any fly fisherman could do better regarding descriptions and the basic history of some of the finest flies used on the American Continent. To wit:  Thank You Mr. Ernie Schwiebert. Mr. G.

Response:

I was told by an entomologist/flyfisherman that there were twenty different species called BWO that he was aware of. He felt that there probably was really close to a hundred. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. … Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BWO’s do vary in the color of the body as well as the shade of gray of the wing. They also vary in size. On a given river, these differences are usually seasonal. As a whole they tend to get smaller as the season goes on. In the Spring, they will be of a size 16 or 18. By late Fall and Winter they will be down to a 20 or 22. Different watersheds also have different BWO’s. From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. The commonality is a gray wing and a body with some olive tones in it. The body often has other colors in it including: gray, yellow, rust, brown. cream etc. When tying them I generally blend an olive with several other colors. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style. BWO’s are a "bad weather" fly.  They hatch heaviest on overcast days. In the Rockies, the BWO’s are the most consistent Mayfly.  They will hatch every month, even in mid Winter during a warm spell. Just before runoff, there are some very strong hatches on cloudy days that provide some excellent surface fishing. The hatches also seem to get stronger again in the Fall. Most of the time, I prefer a parachute or paradun style.

Aside from the "bad weather fly" part (must be a western thing – we get ‘em all the way up through Maine even on really nice days) you provided some solid information on this pattern, William. I don’t have enough fingers and toes to count all the body color variations I’ve seen used on BWOs – though the wings, hackles, and tails are nearly always a medium blue dun (and I wouldn’t tie ‘em with anything else). Anyone making the Y2K Maine Conclave should have a bunch of these at the ready, size 16-20 (particularly 18-20)… /daytripper

Response:

… From what I understand, BWO is a fisherman’s term that describes a number of different species of mayflies. …

Bluewinged Olive is the fishermen’s name for the subimago of several Baetis spp. and Pseudocloeon spp. and the subimago Ephemerella flavilinea. What I call "the little grey ones". — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Ross, I had the same type of problem and I bought a C&R net with a small bungee cord that has a magnet at either end.  One end is attached to the D ring of my vest in the back and the other to the net.  The magnets keep the net nice and high on my back and out of the way.  When I pull on the net, the magnet releases and allows me to have a long line to net the fish. I don’t go fishing for trout anymore without it.  It is one of the best accessories I own.  I don’t use it on smaller fish and I have run across some larger fish that just didn’t fit, but for mid-size trout, I highly recommend it. Rooster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The most obvious alternative seems to be to use a catch and release net, and herein lies my question.  When fishing alone on a river, how do you use the net and where/how do you carry it while fishing?  I’ve seen fishermen on TV with the nets hanging from the back of their vests, presumably on a retractable line.  Is that the best approach?  Is it easy to access when needed?What is the risk of breaking the rod tip if you have to hold the rod up high to bring the fish in the net?

Response:

Hi Ross, As Darin said in his post I too go without a net when fishing the waters around the Seattle area. Depending on the size of the fish I will usually not even touch the fish with my hands if possible. The reason I can do this is a nifty little tool called a Ketchum-Release designed by a fellow up in BC. So long as you use a barbless hook you can use this tool to slide over the line and then down over the fly. Usually with a simple twist or jerk of your wrist you can remove the fly and the fish is off and running. If you have done this with sufficient water under the fish and the fish hasn’t been played too long you won’t even have to touch the fish. If this fish is showing signs of being overly tired you should try to gently hold in gentle current it without EVER removing it from the water. Every second you have it out of the water reduces the fishes chances of recovery drastically. I also try to never release a fish that is visibly bleeding. If it is then it either goes to the eagles who often are nearby watching every move or if regulations permit I’ll take it home to the smoker (Having said that I might have killed all of ten fish in the last 5 years). The Ketchum-Release has got to be one of my all time favorite fly fishing tools. Just make sure you tie it onto your vest as they sink! Gary Disclaimer– I have nothing to do with the company that makes the Ketchum-Release I just like the tool! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to fine tune my landing of medium size trout to minimize harm to the fish. I typically fish in coastal British Columbia rivers, which are prone to rocky shores (at least where I fish) and my normal method of landing fish involves beaching it then releasing it.  What I notice however is that often the fish will thrash about on the rocks while I’m in the process of beaching it until I pick the fish up to remove the hook and release it back in the water.  I can’t believe that having the fish roll around and hit the rocks (even if its only for a few seconds) can be all that helpful to its survival, so I am trying to find a better approach. The most obvious alternative seems to be to use a catch and release net, and herein lies my question.  When fishing alone on a river, how do you use the net and where/how do you carry it while fishing?  I’ve seen fishermen on TV with the nets hanging from the back of their vests, presumably on a retractable line.  Is that the best approach?  Is it easy to access when needed?What is the risk of breaking the rod tip if you have to hold the rod up high to bring the fish in the net? Can anyone share their experiences and recommendations in beaching fish in similar situations, are nets the solution? Sorry if these are dumb questions, any ideas or experience would be appreciated. Ross

Response:

I once saw Houston bow fishing for gar and other "rough fish".  He was shooting the fish, bringing them in, and then throwing them back in the water.  Couldn’t call that c&r at all, more like release and kill.  He stated that doing this was "good for conservation" since the gar kill sport fish.  I guess it’s a miracle that the largemouth made it this far, without J. Houston to protect them from the bad ol’ gar. David Burnside Since my Jimmy Houston rant a while back, I’ve had occasion to see him a few more times still doing exactly the same shit.   I don’t usually watch these shows, so maybe the others are just as bad, but that guy is appalling. It’s unfathomable to me how his mistreatment of the fish he catches continues to pass for sport and entertainment

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

certainly.  The wet fish gets on dry sand/rock and the protective mucus on it are removed as when people grab fish with dry hands.  The fish becomes infected, etc. and later dies.

For a while now I’ve been a bit sceptical about the ‘dry hands -removes the mucous – gets infected – fish dies’ theory. I think that fish are probably perfectly able to replace a bit of slime that gets rubbed off locally. What about the abrasion that occurs ‘naturally’ in the animal’s life, e.g., when cutting redds? Don’t get me wrong: I’m not advocating handling with dry hands or dragging up on a gravel beach those fish intended for release, its just that I question a bit of angling lore that’s been repeated so often that everyone now believes it without challenge. As a matter of interest: the carp and pike specimen hunters in Britain take their ‘releasing’ very seriously. Most fisheries stipulate the use of special padded unhooking mats (that have to be of a minimum size) and weighing slings made of soft, non-abrasive material. There are also purpose-made antibiotic/fungicidal preparations on the market for anglers to apply to hook puncture wounds and other injuries on the fish, prior to release.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a while now I’ve been a bit sceptical about the ‘dry hands -removes the mucous – gets infected – fish dies’ theory. I think that fish are probably perfectly able to replace a bit of slime that gets rubbed off locally. What about the abrasion that occurs ‘naturally’ in the animal’s life, e.g., when cutting redds? Don’t get me wrong: I’m not advocating handling with dry hands or dragging up on a gravel beach those fish intended for release, its just that I question a bit of angling lore that’s been repeated so often that everyone now believes it without challenge. As a matter of interest: the carp and pike specimen hunters in Britain take their ‘releasing’ very seriously. Most fisheries stipulate the use of special padded unhooking mats (that have to be of a minimum size) and weighing slings made of soft, non-abrasive material. There are also purpose-made antibiotic/fungicidal preparations on the market for anglers to apply to hook puncture wounds and other injuries on the fish, prior to release.

Tony, I to have heard the lore. I always wet my hands, not so much from the lore, but from practical experience as a youth. Down the street from where I was raised in Miami, old man Roberts had a fish farm. His business was importing tropical fish from around the world and selling them to pet shops so that hobbyists could have fish in their tanks. Occasionally, his son John and I would go out and help net & pick fish for the orders being shipped out. The old mans #1 rule was, "wet your hands and keep them wet". The reason being that it protected the fishes mucous which allowed the fish to arrive at their destination in healthy condition without ich growing all over them. I don’t have any scientific basis for any of this, just experience. The old man would usually reward us with a dollar or so and a dime or two for the soda machine. I think the one thing that has changed since the early 60’s that I really miss the most, is the ice-cold 6oz. Coca-Cola’s that would noisily clank down mechanical innards to the dispenser when you put that dime in the slot and depressed the cast iron handle. waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a while now I’ve been a bit sceptical about the ‘dry hands -removes the mucous – gets infected – fish dies’ theory. I think that fish are probably perfectly able to replace a bit of slime that gets rubbed off locally. What about the abrasion that occurs ‘naturally’ in the animal’s life, e.g., when cutting redds? Don’t get me wrong: I’m not advocating handling with dry hands or dragging up on a gravel beach those fish intended for release, its just that I question a bit of angling lore that’s been repeated so often that everyone now believes it without challenge. As a matter of interest: the carp and pike specimen hunters in Britain take their ‘releasing’ very seriously. Most fisheries stipulate the use of special padded unhooking mats (that have to be of a minimum size) and weighing slings made of soft, non-abrasive material. There are also purpose-made antibiotic/fungicidal preparations on the market for anglers to apply to hook puncture wounds and other injuries on the fish, prior to release. Tony, I to have heard the lore. I always wet my hands, not so much from the lore, but from practical experience as a youth. Down the street from where I was raised in Miami, old man Roberts had a fish farm. His business was importing tropical fish from around the world and selling them to pet shops so that hobbyists could have fish in their tanks. Occasionally, his son John and I would go out and help net & pick fish for the orders being shipped out. The old mans #1 rule was, "wet your hands and keep them wet". The reason being that it protected the fishes mucous which allowed the fish to arrive at their destination in healthy condition without ich growing all over them. I don’t have any scientific basis for any of this, just experience. The old man would usually reward us with a dollar or so and a dime or two for the soda machine. I think the one thing that has changed since the early 60’s that I really miss the most, is the ice-cold 6oz. Coca-Cola’s that would noisily clank down mechanical innards to the dispenser when you put that dime in the slot and depressed the cast iron handle. waldo — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

_______  What a fond description of old memories!   — Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  Fly Fisherman’s Chat Site   "Flyfisherman’s Camp Fires Burning" http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com

Question:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers: PO Box 5981 Stateline, NV 89449 (702)588-0862 112a Cervantes Street San Francisco, CA 94123 (415)928-6025 25 Stillman st. #200 San Francico, CA 94109 (415)281-3104 Wanna meet someone tonight? It costs ONLY $1 per minute CALL NOW :  1-800-750-GIRL (4475) These girls are not phonesex workers. They are horny girls who are on the

line cuz it’s free phonesex for them. You are free to arrange to meet anyone you meet on this line. Give it a try! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – -EnjoyKIeTXJuN

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich schrieb:  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds? Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ).

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Seconded !  ( average sixty to the minute ! ). TL MC

Response:

I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and Wayno too !!

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Response:

Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t. Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Here! babob

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman?

Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Response:

Uh oh!  Did I get it wrong?  Wait, let me think a gentleman? Yes, my name is E. Gaduair, but I prefer that you not refer to me as EGAD!! And could someone tell me just what the Germans have done to piss-off you folks. Opie in NC

Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

Response:

It’s all very clear to me now! NC Opie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tut mir ausserordentlich leid, aber ich habe kein Wort verstanden. TL MC

Response:

Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

News Groups.  Public fora, are they not?  Seems to suggest that ANYONE is free to post.  Even some dumbass peddling his porn.  Everyone else, on the other hand, is free to whip his naked ass back where he came from or simply ignore him.  Or ignore Mr. Harrison for that matter.  Or you.  Or me. So, what’s germane?  Ignore everything that’s not strictly about fly fishing on this NG and you don’t have a great deal left to read.  Are your insults germane?  Why are they more germane than Mr. Harrison’s?  Wayne has posted a great deal of welcome information on these pages.  Has Chris W.?  Has Mr. Nardini?  Have you, Bobby? Moreover, Wayne amuses me and a lot of others on this NG.  You don’t.  Chris W. doesn’t.  Mr. Nardini doesn’t.  I vote we keep the gentleman from North Carolina and lose you.  Seconds?

Response:

[deleted]  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

You mean like your (and mine) crossposted double-drivel ? Thanks for the NG lesson Robert ! — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

wayno "the professor" relates: <<finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness. roflmao.  what a way to start out the day!  hey, why am i typing all in lower case?   louie

Response:

Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:

        gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a Want to talk with REAL horny girls? This is something VERY new in phone sex. The women on the line are NOT paid. They call for free phone sex with guys like YOU! Guys: 50 cents per minute Girls: TOTALLY FREE discreetly directly to your phone bill. For gay talk call: 1-888-800-GUYS (toll-free) For Dominance & Submission Call: 888-700-WHIP l

Response:

Here ya go Wayno!  Anything else you need you just gimme a

ahhhhhhhhh… ROFF is darwinian lol waldo Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is the individual responsible for this spam- this same person spams this group weekly with various pornography and is a notorious spammer in many other newsgroups. (I tracked the phone number to his websites- then researched the owner of those sites): His name is Jerry Nardini. Here are his most recent addresses and phone numbers:         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno

  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         gosh, chris, thanks for insulating me from evil.         now, do you think you could use this info to get jerry to drop the charges to a half a buck per minute?         roff is darwinian, chris, baby.  he won’t survive.  can you dig it? wayno  Another person completely at a loss on the concept of News Groups. Wayno, numbnuts, these are not porno news groups and porno, or any other non-germaine posts, don’t belong here. You childish remarks prove your ignorance. Perhaps you need to take remedial Internet training as you are still way-fuzzy on the concept.

        what you need is a good cyber ass whipping, which i will happily provide.         you also need some help with your grammar and spelling.         finally, let me close with a few more childish remarks:  bite me, robbie baby; and, for good measure, "na na nah na na naahh".         you are now free to continue your graduate level studies in anal retentiveness.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones into the Atlantic Ocean?

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your 2 emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones east of the eastern seaboard and into the Atlantic Ocean?

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I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? …

If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike. —                                                       -dnc-

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W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? … If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike.

  Agreed HM

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Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine.

Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further….

Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

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Is it just me, or is he not taking his own advice?  Hypocracy shining like a lighthouse here. He is leaving the group because he is sick of reading people’s (including mine) PHEWING, YET his advice to people is,  "they should just ignore his posts rather than reading them" Larry, if you don’t want to ignore the PHEWING posts, because they ruin the group for you to the point of leaving, how can you suggest that  we should just ignore SPAMboo posts which are ruining the group for us? Come back soon Larry, become a part of the solution of making this group more flyfishing related. Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros.

That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

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The best thing that the anti-G[ehrke] forces could do is ignore him. It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s.

By Jove, I think he’s got it!   But more likely than not we’re all getting sucked into this giant G-Hole. (hah! the subject heading made you look, you licentious ne’er do wells) In other minor news, I tied up some saltwater streamers for a buddy in Boston and then wondered how I could send them to him.  Found that one of those floppy disk cases (that holds 4-5 disks) makes a perfect reusable mailing case.  I had a couple of these lying around from back in the days when floppies were more common. Mu Young Lee     Ann Arbor, MI    USA

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Hmmmmm If you algebraically add the positive G and the negative G does that mean that that there’s no G spot? Jheez, this could be serious. — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

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I guess in the greater scheme we can consider each presence adds to us in its existence or diminishes us in its loss.  Certainly lurkers and the most worthwhile sport of lurking has many advantages.  We certainly do not want to discourage lurkers for there-in lies the untapped gold.  However, a whine is a far cry from a lurk.  And, Dear Wayne, there will be no Whine before its time! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

_______  wrong. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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Amazing!  You don’t like it yet you keep reading it over, and over, and over.  If you want just the information you specifically wish to see I suggest you set down, write yourself several hundred extremely boorish e-mails and send them to yourself over a period of several months.  Better yet, go out and buy a Fly Fishing magazine!  Everything you ever wanted to know, and all the knowledge in the world for just a few schekles, or are you too cheap to spring for the ‘zine.  You want information?  Go buy an encyclopedia.  You want knowledge and experience not found in writing anywhere else?  Naw, you don’t want to read anything not specifically tailored to your personal wants and desires.  I sure hope your wife doesn’t bore you one evening! Come again when you can stay longer! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

______  Brings back memories of my fighter pilot days. very funny Jeff. Neutral G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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Similarly, I came back to see what progress was being made with the ‘Bastards’ and hopefully to find a little more civility. Not to be. What I found is the S.O.S.

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Question:

I will be in New Mexico between November 6th and 19th.  I am planing to fish the San Juan.  Can anyone tell me how the fishing is that time of the year?  Are there other rivers that fish well in Nov?  Any suggestions regarding flies would also be appreciated.

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I will be in New Mexico between November 6th and 19th.  I am planing to fish the San Juan.  Can anyone tell me how the fishing is that time of the year?  Are there other rivers that fish well in Nov?  Any suggestions regarding flies would also be appreciated.

The fishing on San Juan seems to never change! It is always excellent. Please dress for all weather types and chest waders are mandatory. The water is between 36 and 42 degrees. We also just had a cold front come through and cooled things off. Check out http://www.thereellife.com/reellife/ for the fishing reports of this area and for the San Juan. I maintain this site for the store it represents. T. Edwards

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Question:

I will be going to Orlando for a quick business trip in Feb. Does anyone know of any flyfishing opportunities in that area?

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Do it right…take the time to go to the Keys and do some real Bonefishing!! Orlando is for DW.!! I will be going to Orlando for a quick business trip in Feb. Does anyone know of any flyfishing opportunities in that area?  

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I will be going to Orlando for a quick business trip in Feb. Does anyone know of any flyfishing opportunities in that area?

Almost too many to mention:  Try fishing for big reds and black drum in the No Motor Zone, Banana River.  Might call Rod Smith, 407/777-2773.  He’s a good guide.  Or Warren Hinrichs, he’s the best in that area 904/268-2208.  Warren’s an ex-Orivs guide for the area. This is canoe or sail in, only.  But they catch 30 lb. redfish and equal size drum.  Beautiful area.  Or go to the West Coast and contact Tommy Locke.  Don’t have his number but any of the fly shops in Orlando would help you dig him up. Good luck, David.

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