Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis. Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun. The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. —

Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?) Regards, Mike.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, perhaps I can give some info that you may find interesting.  In 1962 the Western Green Drake was changed from Ephemerella grandis to Drunella grandis.  In England, Green Drakes are Ephemera danica, in the eastern US they are Ephemera guttulata and in the western US Drunella grandis.   Description: BIOLOGOY OF MAYFLIES, 1935 "Abdominal segments dark purplish brown with wide pale margins, so as to appear conspicuously ringed." Revised in 1962 by Allen and Edmunds "Terga largely purplish brown with pale pleural and posterior margins, giving a distinct ringed appearance to the abdomen." A description of the Western Green Drake from SPINNERS by Nemes: ‘There is little green in the whole insect, although the base of the wings has a yellowy green cast to it, which is very prominent on the dun.   The spinner appears green perhaps because of the pale yellow stripes between the dark, purply brown segments.  Body length is 3/4".  Three tails almost twice as long.  Wings: hyaline, with a span of 1 and 1/2".’ A very generic hatch chart that will give you a general idea of various hatch times: http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=&Group_ID=&subject=253&cktst=true HTH. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

If it’s not one damn thing, it’s something else. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though. Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s.

Our snowpack is a whopping 293% and the rivers are running at normal levels (16,300 cfs) on the lower Clark Fork. Heading up to Rock Creek with the Fam on Thursday. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks.

Will do.  I still have your fly from one of the swaps set aside as my example pattern. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this.

Same here.  Not sure how much rain we received total, but it rained most of the weekend and most of yesterday too.  We had snow at times, but it didn’t stick much in the valley.  The mountains are white again though.   Our snowpack percentage increased by 16% this weekend and they are already talking about more flooding because the temps this weekend are supposed to get up into the 90’s. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Make sure to have the appropriate size/color quigley cripple. It’s a great pattern during the Green Drake hatch on the Bitterroot, which should be starting in 2 or 3 weeks. More snow down to about 4000 feet here. We’ve had at least a couple of inches of rain in the past 4 days or so. I hope other parched places in the west are getting this. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water. Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend. Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too.

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Thanks Warren,  the two insects do sound very similar indeed:  very good fun to fish with here in the UK ~ have you ever fished a Green Drake hatch?  Are they common on most rivers or are they fairly limited in extent (UK is tiny compared to States, so I suppose that US environments vary wildly) .  I would imagine that the north east of the States is the most similar to the environment of the UK  (New England & New Hampshire might be a possible clue, but since I’ve never been there, I don’t really know ?)

I have never fished an actual Green Drake "hatch" (like the glorious ones you read about in various magazines or books), but have fished Green Drakes while they were out.  In my experience, they are fairly common in that they are represented in a large geographic area, but rare in that they are a short-lived hatch and prefer certain types of water.   Personally I like the Grey and Brown Drakes better because they are more common, probably because they have a longer hatch period, but they seem to be more widespread too.  That may be because they have the longer "hatch" though…..  I am hoping to fish some Green Drakes this weekend.   Never fished the famous hatch on this river, but supposedly it is everything that you are talking about and more.  Unfortunately it brings out the crowds too. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael. It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know.

Thanks Gary,  yes indeed I would quite like to see the pikkies, so please email them to me.  From what you say it seems like the english Mayfly is similar to the american Green Drake. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help! Best regards, Gary

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

The Western Green Drake is Drunella grandis or Drunella doddsi. The duns are pretty much an olive color all over. They emerge in the middle of the day, and they darken in color after emergence. The cool thing about the Green Drakes, from a flyfisherman’s point of view, is that the duns spend a long time on the surface, and there are lots of cripples. The mating flights and the spinner falls occur very late and into the night. These are big mayflies, but not nearly as big as the Brown Drake. The Big Wood River in Idaho has a superb Green Drake hatch in June. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have. Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?

Many apologies for my making myself unclear yet again.  What I really mean is not the natural flies that you haven’t seen, but the artificials that your friend showed you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres? Michael, FWIW, I posted several pics a few days back on alt.binaries.pictures.fishing. Flies were green drakes from the Delaware River in NY State. You above desc is compares well to the US Eastern Green Drake. I am sure it would be not difficult to find the pattern online. Where I am now, I cannot help!

Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

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Thanks for the info Gary,  I checked the pictures but my outlook express newsgroup reader told me that I couldn’t view the pictures because there were no longer there, or words to similar effect.  I assume that you took the photos?  Do the green drakes in the Delaware hatch in a fortnight around about the end of May? Regards, Michael.

It is really for only 4 or 5 days on the Delaware I am told. Most hatch charts make it the last fortnight of May though. If you want the photos I would be glad to email them to you. Just let me know. Best, Gary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.

Willi,  I think I wasn’t making myself clear in the previous post of mine: what I meant was does the green drake flies that you saw have the features that I mentioned, i.e. pale body with brown segments near tail and a pale olive hackle & wing ~ and of course the 3 long tail fibres?  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night.

I have only fished into the night a few times when I was a kid.  The river in light is a wonderous place,  but for a 10 year old,  the darkness of night makes the water kind of creepy.   In ordinary days out fishing these days,  I have to be home by a reasonable hour  (wife & all that…) and so I’ll probably not get much opportunities for night / evening fishing ~ besides, 21 years later,  I still remember how creepy the river became in darkening light PS,  I had an excellent day’s fishing on my favourite stretch today.  The weather was excellent  (overcast, no wind and no rain but fairly warm) and there was a lot  of activity taking place.  The E. danica Mayfly spinners were dancing around laying their eggs.  I was amazed at how many there were, considering the carnage that was wrought upon the duns.  Anyhow,  I had a number of pheasant tail dryflies that I had already chosen to use for the day.  The fly is a simple creation of  3 PT fibres for the tail & body,  and a ginger cock hackle wound fairly bushy.  I have a streamlined variant with less hackle to be used in the really tricky spots where I have to cast under overhanging branches,  but that is not a durable floater for general fishing.  I caught about 20 fish at an average of about 3/4 lb each fish and quite a few indeed over the pound mark ~ 1 to be cooked on the smoker tomorrow.  This season has seen a beefing up of the fish stock and I’m sure that the fish are bigger  than that that I have become used to over the 6 years that I have fished this stream.  I saw an absolute clonker leap several feet out of the water, it looked good for 2 pounds.  However by the time that I reached this fish, the river went strange and my fly had become out of vogue ~ nothing went for my fly at all! Half an hour earlier I had just finished a period of about 3 hours whereby most fish that I covered rose to my fly.  I had been very pleased with the fly’s performance,  just as I had expected it to do since it is a good choice for this time of the year  (and it is easy to tie up too).  As I worked my way slowly towards the area where I saw the big fish rise,  I encountered some smaller fish bulging.  I wanted to turn these fish downstream of me without spooking the big trout, and so aimed to hook up as many of these fish as I could and bring them downstream and then release the tension in the line so that the hook falls out (no barbs) and releases the fish.  This is a good method of clearing a shallow section of water so that the angler may proceed slightly further upstream to a target fish. I started this plan,  but to no avail!  The fish totally stopped taking my fly,  and by the time I reached the area where the big one had been rising I did not have a single rise, despite a few fly changes, including a PT nymph. I have to admit defeat on this pool / glide, as I couldn’t entice a thing despite seeing many rises.  I like this pool as it a challenging but beautiful stretch of water some 50 yards long with many fish. Cheers for now, Michael.

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From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass!

Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres? The flight of a newly hatched Mayfly E. danica dun is quite a sight indeed. The creatures fly relatively slowly with rapid whirring of the wings and with the tail more or less pointing towards the water.  It takes them a bit of time to get the momentum up and during this time they are quite prone to aerial assults by the trout! I thoroughly recommend your seeing a drake hatch as it is like a festival on the stream.  The trout really go crazy and severely reveal their presence with savage swirls / splashes / leaps and so on.  On the rivers that I fish that have the E. danica,  it seems like the hatching of this burrowing nymph is the trout’s primary seasonal harvest, and the trouts’ indulgence is such that caution is temporarily thrown to the wind. After the E. danica hatch is over the river quietens down progressively through the months June July & August.  In late August the stream can be very quiet indeed,  and only the nymph seems to be successful in enticing fish to participate in my days’ operations.  During September,  things liven up a little, but by the end of the month it becomes close season,  with the cold winter days soon to come. I have come to believe that the hatching out of the E. danica is more or less the trouts’ raison d’etre, as it effectively forms the peak of the trouts’ feeding activities. [Just like for me,  catching trout on a beautiful stream is my raison d'etre!!!!] Without the E. danica, the trout hold station and help themselves only to the morcels that pass by, with the odd excursion to snatch a sedge; little energy is expended on such table scraps.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout , and the yearlings / 2 year olds all return to their regular (non-danica) places.  The big trout then all disappear back to their lies in various alder roots at the heads of runs & pools and become somewhat more  difficult to catch until the next danica hatch that is…. In England,  the month of May is the dryfly month, as that is when the upwinged flies start to hatch out in earnest.  The last 2 weeks in May and the first week of June are really busy days with the dryfly and it is great fun just to be there: fishing and catching fish is merely the icing on the cake.  That being said,  I also like the "dogdays" of late summer too, as exploration work with the nymph is just as much fun as fishing the dryfly, and more demanding of the angler’s concentration and skills etc. Regards, Michael.

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Willi,  this sounds similar to the english E. danica indeed.  Does the Green Drake have a pale cream body with a couple of brown segments near the tail, alongside a slight olive colouring of the thorax / wing area and 3 long tail fibres?

Like I said, I’ve never seen one. There are people on ROFF who have.  When danica is hatching, the big trout all congregate in the slow pool tails and hunt down the hatching nymphs and emerging duns furiously.  After the danica has gone by, the pool tails become devoid of big trout

My guess is that you would find them there at sunset and into the night. Willi

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Snip. Thanks. Very well-written and a useful read.

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[a very informative snip] These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

Willi, just found this little gem of a post. It seems like you’re describing the upper Grand, just below Belwood dam – long stretches of medium-slow to slow water broken by riffles and chutes.  During hatches and off-colour water, these slow areas can be full of fish but in clear, low, no-hatch conditions they seem devoid of fish.  This river has a limestone bottom that is fairly flat in spots yet it has underwater ledges that change the depth by 6" or so, providing holding spots for fish.  I’ll work these waters from top to bottom, side-to-side with a streamer by wading downstream right down the middle and casting bank to bank. I’ve seen the "truck bed coverage" pattern of rising fish in slow water and though I have caught them on dries, though anticipating their next move can be frustrating (especially in a trico spinner fall) so I often fish them with a small streamer run very shallow and fast.  Even though they are keyed on a specific bug, they will usually smack a well presented streamer, since they are already in the feeding mood. Your post is a clear statement that anglers should spend as much time observing as they spend fishing. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  

I did a web search and it seems that we don’t have that specific Mayfly although we do have a number of burrowing Mayflies across the country that are generically called Drakes. These Drake hatches bring up the big fish and also bring out anglers from all over to fish them.   From the pictures I called up, the most similar in size and appearance

to the Danica seems to be the Green Drake. Personally, I’ve never fished a Drake hatch, but there are other posters here that have and do. Wayne Knight, tries to make a yearly pilgramage to fish the Hex hatch in Michigan. He sent me some flies he uses for this hatch. They’re MUCH bigger than any Mayfly I’ve seen. The flies he sent are bigger than many flies I use for bass! The Mayflies on my home river are mainly small, 18 to 22. The exception is a large bright yellow Mayfly that hatches at dusk and into the night in July and August. I caught the largest trout I’ve taken on a dry during this hatch. The problem is that the hatch is strong enough to really interest the fish only once every five years or so. While at the Penn’s Clave, I got to see and fish some March Brown Mayflies. I thought they were huge but I was told that they were small compared to the Green Drakes. Willi

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Good stuff snipped. Willi,  this is an excellent post and something that I have also experienced, albeit in a very much minor scale to yours.  My rivers are much smaller than yours, however the trout do tend to move around in a similar fashion although probably proportionally to the size of the rivers concerned.  I have often found trout in the most bizarre places in the stream that I ordinarily wouldn’t have bothered casting to.  It is only when I have seen the sizeable fish flee from my upstream wading that I have gathered their presence in these particular spots, or else I have been very much surprised by a very much swirlsome rise in a strange spot.   In later visits I would target these areas, and indeed some good trout have been taken by my rod  from these previously "fishless" spots. On my fave stream  (of which I posted a pikkie in ABPF some weeks ago) there is a cow drinking spot that is at the very tail end of a long slow glide / straight pool.  Immediately in front of the shallow draining section are often very big fish for the river 1.5lb plus) in the very shallow water (1 foot deep).   I initially found these fish out years ago by all of their massive bow waves as they all shot off when I went wading up to them in ignorance.  I paid attention to this observation and over the years have had a lot of fun trying to deceive these fish.  On average, these trout in this spot have bettered my tactics as it is quite difficult to present a fly to them in consideration of the prevailing circumstances. These are very tricky fish to cast to with my small 6 foot rod:  in order not to scare the fish by my presence, I have to cast at the fish whilst standing in fast water ~ if I am not careful,  the drag on my line closest to me will accelerate the fly and drag it too fast past the fish.  I have to be sure to collect line quickly and to hold the rod as high as possible to avoid excessive downstream drag on the fly.  My most favoured approach is to use a PT nymph and pitch it about 18 inches upstream of the trout with a snaky cast (i.e. twang the flyline taut about 1 foot above the surface of the water to induce curves in the flyline / leader.  The trick is to try to mend the flyline so as the fly doesn’t suddenly accelerate when the curves are all brought straight by the dragging current. A nice slow start by the nymph is much preferred over the sudden acceleration.  Recently I have tried to get back into dryfly fishing, and this spot is very tricky indeed with the floating fly, however a bushier fly gives more time for the fly to be drifted over the trout before the dreaded drag acceleration.  (that being said,  I have caught plenty of fish with a dragging fly (usually accidentally) !!. One question for you Willi:  do you have the English Mayfly (E. danica) over on your side?  Over here we have a fortnight (just finished) of total mayhem on the troutstream when these ephemeral leviathans hatch out.  The trout all go completely nuts for them,  and the biggies come out into the pool tails and are relatively prone to the fly angler for the first half of the fortnight at least.  The trout seem to be so transfixed with the Mayfly that they will not  see the error of the angler.   For the rest of the year the biggies seem to disappear and are difficult to engage.  During the Mayfly (in England the Mayfly is a specific species of ephemerid, and it is disproportionally bigger than most other upwinged aquatic fly) fortnight the regular structure of trout feeding locations is more or less inverted and we find the big fish out in the open slow water, chasing down mayfly duns anywhere they see them.  I have seen on many occasions trout leap clear of the water to intercept an E. danica as it fluttered a foot or so over the water’s surface. Regards, Michael.

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There is a section of my home river where a walking/biking/jogging path runs above the river on a bluff for about a half mile. This high vantage point provides an unusual and ideal opportunity to observe the comings and going of the trout. It took me a couple of years before I began to utilize this viewing area. At first, I used the path to walk from one spot to the next or else I just waded along the banks of the river. One day, I happened to stop along the path and while looking down into the river saw a good fish feeding, suspended in the water about a foot below the surface, in an area I had ignored in the past. I took the time to check out more of the area, and found numerous good fish feeding in areas that I had passed by before because they didn’t "fit the mold" of good spots. After this first encounter, I’ve made it a habit to make observations of this stretch of water from the overlooking path on a consistent basis. I’ve learned a number of things watching the trout in this area over the years but two things I’ve learned that have changed the way I fish are: trout will move considerable distances to feed and they will choose feeding stations that are "unconventional" based on what is described by most of the angling literature. I’ve been watching these trout for most of the fifteen years I’ve lived here and have found that different fish, for their own reasons, choose different feeding areas. From my observations, it seems that the same fish choose the same stations while actively feeding, at least during water levels where I can observe and/or fish. Trout feed in a variety of locations throughout a stream or river. Some trout move very little from their holding positions to feed even during strong hatches. There are other fish who leave their holding locations to move to active feeding stations. Many of them will do this at specific times of the day depending on the season and will then return to their deeper holding water. I’ve followed fish for several hundred yards as they return to the pool after being spooked off their feeding station. Hatches will also draw them to these areas even if these hatches are at different times than their "regular" schedule. I enjoy fishing for and finding these actively feeding fish for a number of reasons. The fish have moved into these positions for one reason only, to feed and because of this, they are very vulnerable to being caught. Another reason that these fish are worth pursuing is that many of these areas are ignored by the average angler and more often produce better fish. In heavily fished water, and especially in water with open regulations, the better fish have a tendency to feed in areas where they aren’t likely to be caught. An Overview of this Stretch of Observable Water The bottom end of this stretch is the largest and deepest pool in about four or five miles of river that is form by a small diversion dam. This massive pool holds alot of fish. The head of the pool is a broad area of moderate current. The water is slower moving and the bottom more regular than the heads of pools on most western waters. Upstream from the head there is a long flat that runs upstream for about a third of a mile. The current is very moderate to slow and the bottom is regular with very few features. It averages about three feet in depth during higher water conditions, about two feet during average conditions and as low as a foot during low water conditions. There are a few depressions in this stretch where the water is about twice the average depth. At the upstream end of this flat there is a run about two hundred feet in length made up of irregular, faster, slightly deeper water. Upstream of the run there is a short area of very shallow rapid/pocket water.   The Head of the Pool The head of the pool always holds some fish, but during nonfeeding times, the fish are all small. During periods of feeding activity, a good number of fish utilize the head of the pool. There is usually a pod of fish just off the near bank in the deepest water just upstream of the pool. These are moderate sized fish although I’ve seen one or two very big ones over the years. This is classic feeding water but it is also the heaviest fished part of this stretch of river. I think that there would be more, better fish using this feeding station but since it is heavily fished and the river has open regulations, I think the better fish that utilize it are regularly caught and kept. Just upstream, the water gains a bit of velocity as it becomes more shallow. There are scattered fish throughout this area using the slightly bigger rocks or slight depressions to deflect the current while they feed on the food being swept by. These trout, as a rule, are better than average sized fish. The largest number of fish that feed in the head of the pool, feed on the sloping bar of shallow water on the far side of the river. The bar starts at the far bank and gradually deepens to about three feet in depth until it drops off into the pool at the head. This bar seldom gets fished because it is where 90%+ of the anglers stand to fish the obvious deep run along the near bank. The fish on this bar will consistently feed in water from one to three feet deep but will move into water just inches deep if the hatch is heavy and the sun isn’t direct. This sloping bar holds all sizes of fish. I caught the biggest fish I’ve caught in the river on this bar. It was caught at sunset on a summer eve, on a large dry in very shallow water where I saw it pushing wakes of water as it fed.   The Long Flat The next upstream stretch is the longest area of this section, almost about a third of a mile in length. It is a very featureless stretch of slow to moderately moving water. Aside from a few scattered fish that have found small niches, there is very little holding water and during nonfeeding times, it is virtually devoid of fish. It is water that in the past, I had always considered to be waste water. However, each morning and evening during the "season" trout move up from the pool to feed in this area. Hatches during the day will also bring fish up from the downstream pool. Some fish set up typical feeding stations but because of the slow current speed in many areas, some of the trout will set up a territory and cruise, more like lake dwelling fish. These fish will typically set up a feeding pattern covering an area typically about the size of large truck’s bed. They’ll feed at their upstream limit, then drift back and to the side to feed again and then repeat this pattern until they reach their downstream limit.  Then the fish will swim back to its starting position and start the cycle over again. In this apparently, featureless area, most of the feeding stations or territories are difficult or impossible to find without directly observing the fish from the elevated bank because there are no obvious visual cues that suggest a good lie. Even when observing the fish in their stations/territories, it is usually impossible to discern what advantage their chosen area has over another seemingly identical area that never holds a fish. This long stretch of water will produce all sizes of fish. Again I’ve observed that the very few "obvious" spots, generally don’t hold the best fish. Again, I believe that this is because the better fish that use these obvious areas are caught and kept. The Top Run and Rapids Section The broken surface of the water in this area makes direct observation impossible except during very low water levels. Most of the observations I’ve made are based on fish rising, bulging or pushing water while feeding as well as by angling for them. There are a few deeper spots in this area as well as some undercuts that also serve as holding water. Even though this area is fished fairly heavily, it consistently produces better fish. However, once again the best fish tend to be in areas that are either neglected by other anglers ie. VERY shallow sections or are difficult to fish ie undercut willows. All the typical lies in this area hold fish. Each seam, back eddy, pocket, depression, etc. has the potential of a fish. Because of its broken and somewhat deeper water, this is the only area in this whole stretch of river that will hold better fish during "off" times. During feeding periods, more fish will move into this area from the downstream pool. I’ve had some exceptional days on this area, especially during hatches. However, most of the best fish I’ve taken from this area have been in the VERY shallow water in the edges of the rapids at the top of the run. Sometimes they’ll feed in water so shallow that I’ve spotted the fish by the bulges of water they pushed upward while they’re feeding. Shallow areas like these are ignored by virtually all anglers. The other spot in this area where I’ve consistently caught good fish is a small eddy behind a log protruding from the bank. This spot is difficult to fish and requires an unconventional approach to cover correctly. These types of feeding lies are not unique to this stretch of river. I’ve found similar unconventional feeding lies in many waters I’ve fished. They are not as readily apparent as "classic" lies but are definitely worth seeking out. Willi

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Question:

Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

Alex, There are many rivers that are legally open in Vermont.  The question is whether they are open due to ice.  Two good bets, weather dependent, are the Winooski River and Lewis Creek.  Hatches are scant.  Wooly buggers are your best bet, as well as other streamers.  Brown stoneflies can be around if the spring is early. Stream flows are a coin toss from downright perrfect to flood to a July trickle depending on rain and snowfall.  Good luck and I would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Vermont Outdoors Magazine 2 Church Street Burlington, VT 05401 (802) 860-0003 Fax: (802) 860-0005 http://www.vermontoutdoors.com

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Folks, I may be in the northeast the week of March 15, and was wondering if there are any sections of rivers, streams etc, in upstate NY, VT or NH that are open. If so, what can one expect this time of the year re streamflow, hatches, best patterns to use? Thanks for any info you can provide! Alex

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Question:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion. TL MC

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I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion.

And you know that no matter how carefully one was to couch any assistance to avoid it being taken as criticism, the risk is still high that someone’s feelings are going to be injured. I just don’t see the high-percentage up-side to offering unsolicited casting assistance. And frankly, I’m on the water to enjoy myself, not to risk the ire of a flogger… /daytripper

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I only help when asked (fly choices, where, ect).  I have never given casting lessons while I am trying to fish nor do I plan to start that practice. I can understand wanting to be helpful and all, but let a beginner plot their own course. Some of the best lessons I have learned on my own.  If it is someone you know (like I just taught my brother), then don’t plan on fishing much and sure as hell don’t show off your expertise and catch a lot of fish using the same fly, in the same place.  That will just them turn them off thinking they are a failure. Warren

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I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow. W.E.S. Harman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

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I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow.

I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

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Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away?

Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

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Whassis, Matt?  Smoking that stuff again?  And, Im NOT cross eyed! Myoptic, yes, but strabismus, not!  And HEY, I tyed my own shoes!  A *real* guide would show a little humility.  The lessons are worth the Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

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I went out to my home river last night at about 7:30 to fish the evening hatch. I was fishing a run that usually holds some good fish when there’s a hatch on. They come out of a deep pool down below to feed in the shallower, swifter water. I’ve been fishing this stretch of the river for about fifteen years and feel I know it very well. A young, blonde woman in hippers was fishing upstream and saw me catch a couple of little ones. She came down to ask me what I was using.  I gave her a couple of flies, showed her one of the mayflies the trout were feeding on and wished her luck.  She then told me that the fish were rising "like crazy" in the pool down below but she couldn’t wade out far enough because she was too short. I explained to her that there was a school of very small Browns that surface feed in the pool every evening but that the better fish move up into the head of the pool and into the run I was fishing. Fishing was fairly slow where I was and there was only about fifteen minutes left before I couldn’t see my fly any more. So I thought I’d go down stream and catch a few of those "little browns" that were rising "like crazy."  When I got there, they WERE rising like crazy and were feeding on the same small dun mayfly that was hatching in the run above. On the second or third cast, I had a solid take. Expecting a little Brown, I wasn’t ready for the strong down stream run and I broke off the fish. A few minutes later I got another hook up, I was a little better prepared and after a nice battle landed a Rainbow of about 16". It was then pretty dark, but the fish were still rising. Although I couldn’t see my fly, I could make out the rise forms, so I took a few more casts and hooked and landed a Rainbow that was pushing 20".   Nice way to end the evening but I had another little treat in store. Wading back to shore I tripped on a boulder and took a dunking. While I was swearing at myself for being so stupid, I thought about my conversation with the young woman. She gave me a nice evening of fishing and I felt like an ass for being such a know it all. Willi

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Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple

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Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

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What ? a beginner trashing water in frustration ? Most of the people I see on streams fish like this: ^^^^^ back-cast … splash … forward cast … splash (repeat about 10 times to get 40 yards out) drag drag drag. Ok, just kidding. I sometimes offer flies when asked what I am using.  Sometimes I relinquish my spot if I sense that the other angler feels that I have the best spot and he is fishing dead water. A slightly different problem is the lack of stream etiquette that beginners seem to have. I rarely had a problem sharing streams with old timers, however, new fishermen are often a pain in the butt.  Aside for people moving close to me and cast at the same trout I am working on, I had people crossing streams just where I was, or, in some cases, going near the place I was casting to, to see if there was a trout there …. What do you do in those cases ?  I usually move to the next pool: the few times I made a comment about the behaviour, I received blank stares in return. Now, as FF has become increasingly popular with wealthier people in the recent years, who often buy Orvis stuff, I wonder if the dislike that this group has shown towards Orvis is really due to the dislike of new fishermen lacking stream etiquette and dressed in rather expensive outfits ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

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ah, mike…that must be the germanic influence engorging your brit nature…soon you’ll be postin about teen-y flies… jeff (worshiping at the mons venus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

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you mean all that stuff walt taught me was wrong?  he said it was in the orvis book… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

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Question:

Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the area.

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(EVANV) writes: Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the

area. Lots of worthwhile fishing opportunities in the area. Plenty of wadeable tidal pools in the bay, bayous, and sound where good shots at redfish and speckled trout can be had.There’s an Orvis Store in Destin (my credit card statement says Blue Bay Outfitters, but I thought it was called something else, oh well it’s there ) Also good fishing in the gulf and in nearby fresh water rivers and ponds. And if you’re lucky, I onced hooked a small tarpon there while casting to redfish though I understand that is a rare occurence. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

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I inquired at the local Orvis shop (Destin) and was very satisfied with the

Well I’ll be…another good spot for information is Half Hitch tackle. me where I could wade for redfish, speckled trout and pompano. He also said

Although that area still has a bit more net-ban-poaching than other areas there seem to be more fish when I was dock fishing over Thanksgiving. Let me put this way, I caught the first redfish I had caught from the location in about 15 years.  A couple of places to wade are the sound at the Brooks bridge going into FWB.  There are a nice set of grass beds on the FWB side of the sound between the bridge and to the point to the east side of the bridge (ie the side opening to the bay). Heading toward Destin from FWB, just before the bridge to Destin on the left is the Coast Guard Station.  In front of the Coast Guard Station is a decent size sand flat.  In March there might be some spanish moving through (ask at the Half Hitch). Some folks try across the road from the Coast Guard Station on the gulf side of the island and back toward FWB.  You will see a spot to park very near the beach about 1/4 mile before the Destin bridge. One other place that I have never tried, but it is a large sand flat now is on the bay side of the island about half way between FWB and Destin. there were some very nice bluefish off the east jetty. It can be accessed by

At tide change the jetty can be rather good from what I have seen the few times that I have been there.  You can get to either jetty and the walk to the end of the west jetty takes about 30 minutes.  You can also "try" to fish the eddy in the pass on that side as well. Cheers, Mike — Mike Marler                          Information Technology, Georgia Tech

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I spend a fair amount of time in that area, and although I have never fished there I plan to in the future. When I was there over the Christmas holidays I inquired at the local Orvis shop (Destin) and was very satisfied with the info I got. I do not recall the name of the owner, but he was able to tell me where I could wade for redfish, speckled trout and pompano. He also said there were some very nice bluefish off the east jetty. It can be accessed by foot or boat(better). I got some additional info from a sporting goods store named Sockeyes. I would recommend contacting both before going. I was very disappointed after talking to them that I had not come prepared to fish. If you want to travel a few miles (30 or so) to the east past Panama City you can go to St. Joseph Bay. There is excellent fishing there. I also understand there is a tarpon fishery there. If you decide to use a guide and have any desire to split a trip, I would be interested. It is only a few hours from New Orleans and I am always looking for an opportunity to fish. Best of luck. Does anyone know if there is any worthwhile flyfishing in the area.  I will be there late March and am wondering if there are any opportunities in the

area.

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Question:

I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? Thanks Ken Baker

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I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish?

The book `South Florida’s Peacock Bass’ by Carlos Hidalgo tells you a great deals about catching these great fish on flies. Go to my Website (URL below) and follow the link "South Florida’s Peacock Bass (Book by Carlos Hidalgo)". Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’ in Seattle!                   <  <, "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"      <<

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With a bassing guide I trained to guide a flyfisherman, I’ve fished the canals of Miami for the last 6 years and haven’t gotten a peacock over 4-5 pounds.  Maybe I’ve fished a total of 25-30 days for peacocks, so I’m no expert and take my thoughts about fishing for a grreat warmwater game fish. They are easiest to get on the surface when they are schooling.  A popper does the trick here.  Otherwise, in fishing along the edges, any popper of average size, but moved quickly without stopping (as one may do for largemouth) gets fish. Fishing just below the surface, a smartly moved clouser minnow (size 6-2) in chartreuse/white, chartreuse/yellow…anything with chartreuse does well.  Fishing the cm deeperhas the potential of getting a big fish. The easiest way to catch peacocks is when they are bedding.  Just drop the fly (easier said than when considering the way peacocks like to hide their beds in impossible places) on to the bed and the fish, both male and female, will continue to pick up the fly until either you catch him, or you say ‘enough is enough, you win…’ This method certainly isn’t the most most sporting.  Good luck. Adam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? Thanks Ken Baker

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I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? The book `South Florida’s Peacock Bass’ by Carlos Hidalgo tells you a great deals about catching these great fish on flies. Go to my Website (URL below) and follow the link "South Florida’s Peacock Bass (Book by Carlos Hidalgo)".

Carlos also has an article on flys for peacocks in the July Florida Sportsman Magazine.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there is a dough bait that you mix cornmeal and some other stuff in it, if you can help me out i will be very thankful!! Hey there.  Ever since I was a kid we used a recipe with cornmeal for catching carp.  It worked great.  To make it, put some water on the stove and wait until it boils.  When it’s boiling, throw some cornmeal in there.  Mix it around and add flour (to make it firm, so it doesn’t fly off the hook.)  Also add sugar, honey, peanut butter, and whatever else you want to try (vanilla flavoring, syrup, garlic powder, etc.)  Good fishing.   =) Add some red food coloring, too – carp can detect color, I’m told. And believe it or not, a little after-shave mixed in works wonders!

Sounds like the one I grew up with. Except use Red Jello. Makes a real mess in the pan but it sticks together real nice! I can remember my dad making it however I don’t remember how much of what. Skyway Steve

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I know there is a dough bait that you mix cornmeal and some other stuff in it, if you can help me out i will be very thankful!!

Hey there.  Ever since I was a kid we used a recipe with cornmeal for catching carp.  It worked great.  To make it, put some water on the stove and wait until it boils.  When it’s boiling, throw some cornmeal in there.  Mix it around and add flour (to make it firm, so it doesn’t fly off the hook.)  Also add sugar, honey, peanut butter, and whatever else you want to try (vanilla flavoring, syrup, garlic powder, etc.)  Good fishing.   =)

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I know there is a dough bait that you mix cornmeal and some other stuff in it, if you can help me out i will be very thankful!! Hey there.  Ever since I was a kid we used a recipe with cornmeal for catching carp.  It worked great.  To make it, put some water on the stove and wait until it boils.  When it’s boiling, throw some cornmeal in there.  Mix it around and add flour (to make it firm, so it doesn’t fly off the hook.)  Also add sugar, honey, peanut butter, and whatever else you want to try (vanilla flavoring, syrup, garlic powder, etc.)  Good fishing.   =)

Add some red food coloring, too – carp can detect color, I’m told. And believe it or not, a little after-shave mixed in works wonders!

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Question:

[Item 1] Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

[Item 2] Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

[Item 3] And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

I think I must be a little confused by what you’ve written — do you see no contradiction between your complaint in item 1 and your attitude in item 3, which essentially dictates what boats smaller than yours are allowed to do? And, are you really saying in items 2 & 3 that you have no compunctions about swamping canoes simply because they are smaller than your boat?  And your justification is that you feel great hardship is imposed upon you by the cost of maintaining your larger boat?  (Sorry, I inadvertantly deleted that part of your post.) Do you see no contradiction here?

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I don’t know or care what your problem is but you just made it on my kill list. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                           jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network. Garry,  I appreciate your above response.  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied  to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer  W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.  Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT  Regards.  D.G.

D. George Jensen San Diego, CA, USA

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asshole I’d kick your fucking ass and piss on your face Cause its really obvious that’s the only type of communication you understand !!! your a dam dickwad mother fucker .. See asshole I don’t need no fucking attorney to take care of your sorry peace of shit Not only do I own a 42 foot Ketch that I built in my own back yard "10 years in the making". But  I also own a 12 foot aluminum Fishing boat . I happen to like catfish !!! Last year I was swamped by a 32 foot power boat in a 300 foot wide channel The mother fucker had the odasidy to fly the third digit as he passed me in the channel . well that’s the last time that asshole flew that finger!!!!! I BROKE IT Yea see there is only two ways you can go on a river he might have got away with it if we where on the big bad ocean but we weren’t ,, I caught up with the asshole at restaurant/bar a few miles up stream Needless to say I spent 30 days in county for fucking this asshole up but it was worth it… I dint like watching my tackle box float down stream … I’ve been a framer half my fucking life I know how to swing a hammer might knock some fucking courtesy into it   I walk the walk,  I talk the talk . and  Ill kick your fucking ass if I ever see  you ASSHOLE  if ya wana meet dickwad  "ANYWARE ANY TIME ASSHOLE"   Email me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Response:

  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.

Oh Gee, Dave, I’m sorry.  I thought ASSHOLE was the name of your boat.   Hey Dave, the sooner you end up in federal prison, the better off the boating world will be. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                               jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Garry,   I appreciate your above response.   It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.   Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT   Regards.   D.G.

Response:

I’m just very glad I don’t boat WITH you or NEAR you.

Response:

snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                            jc

Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Response:

And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

 Regardless of a no wake zone or not, I would hope you that if you’re close enough to swamp a smaller craft with your wake that you would slow down. If not then you take your own chances, because if there are witnesses you could face criminal or civil prosecution. The usual disclaimers apply.

Response:

The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Please go to school. Boating is great fun but you must obey the rules. As far as your wake goes, you are legally and financially responsible for any damages caused by your wake, anywhere, anytime. —            /       Michael W. Madden          / |      215 898-0939        _/  |        /   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him, he’d pretty much swamp anyone who messed with him on this 1 X .5 mile stretch of water. He’s up in N.Berwick Maine if you feel like tracking him down and starting a club or something….                                                 jc

Response:

The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it.

Yeah, who needs to hear all that crap about how you should operate your boat from the International Maritime Organization, the Coast Guard or the State Boating Law Administrator!  Screw ‘em. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

They may or may not, depending on the circumstances prevailing at the time, have a right to expect you’ll get out of their way.  Under other circumstances, you have a right to expect that they will get out of your way.  If they don’t, you have a positive duty under the law to take prompt, efficient actions to avoid a collision. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

It may do worse than that; it may injure or kill them. To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE.

Another writer has already said this, but it bears repeating: You are personally liable for all damage done by your wake at all times.  Rule 6 of both the Inland and International Rules of the Road absolutely require all mariners to operate at a safe speed at all times.  Whether or not your speed was safe will be determined by whether or not your wake does any damage or by whether you could have avoided doing any kind of damage by proceeding at a slower speed. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

If you really do operate in this manner, it constitutes "Grossly Negligent Operation" and is a Federal CRIME, punishable by a fine of up to $5,000 and up to a year in prison or both.  Personally, I wish the Coast Guard would forget about drugs for a while and more vigorously enforce and prosecute under this statute.  People like you belong in jail. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

There is a legal term to describe someone like you:  ASSHOLE. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

Response:

Question:

As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore. I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

I for one am going to take my tube out in the lake in a controlled situation and flip it until I am comfortable with this "wet exit". I didnt even realize flipping my tube was possible- It’s pretty wide. You got my attention! Jack Jack Wheeler

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?

You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

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On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

… paragraph of inappropriate sarcasm deleted … know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

You insensitive bastard.  I gather no one will shed a tear when your tube flips. Bob Luneski

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame? — -Wayne Trzyna

Wayne has a good point, unless of course the manufacurer designed a tube that would obviously flip under normal operation. i.e. shaped like a kayak.  If an angler choses to forego a PFD and drowns because the tube completely deflated before going ashore, then too bad. (Which is a different circumstance than the subject victim) I personally limit my use of the float tube to calm still waters on small lakes with land very accessible.  I view my tube as the "only" option as a boat on a small pond or lake where a regular boat would be less intimate.  Larger waters require a normal boat or even a pram, a tube is not viewed as my "poor man’s boat".  No white water adventures here because no fish is worth my life. My condolences to the familiy of the unfortunate angler. — Howard

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Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer? You know, it wasn’t till several hours after I read this comment that it occured to me how offensive it is.  Why is it that every time somebody hurts themself we assume it is someone else’s fault? Sue the float tube manufacturer?  Come on.  Do you really think the float tube is to blame?

If it was a manufacturing or design defect, then yes, there is every right to sue, provided that it was being used as intended. It might very well be a design which places the rider COG too high…the lawsuit might 1) get it fixed and 2) save more lives. Something that seems really ludicrous to me is the price of some of the tubes…like Browning…around $50…imagine that, really, something for $50 that has such serious implications, a $50 boat. Hmmmm…boggles the mind…freaking fly line costs more… TimW

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Wheee!

If you can maintain this attitude, you will survive the flip. — -Wayne Trzyna

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: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. There were times when I had to worry about this, but they are several pounds

ago. My COG is pretty safely placed, now.   I did flip once, getting into the water, because I was careless, and tried to walk forward rather than back.  Really scary for about 10 seconds.  I am really careful, now. I have to say, seems like the carrying straps add to the danger.  I don’t use them.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

In reflection, my previous post might be considered to be flippant and callous regarding the original incident.  I meant no disrespect, and extend my sympathies to the family and friends of the unfortunate tuber.

Response:

: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

Your waders will be tough to pull under water upside down.  You might give it a try (with help nearby) and let us know how it goes.  Sobering thought being upside down with your neoprenes, all snug and airtight, waving around in the breeze.  Perhaps the open-ended tubes have more to recommend them than easy entry. John Porter, I’m truely sorry for your loss and appreciate the warning. Good fishing!  J. Rice

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With regard to an earlier post of mine to the fellow who’s brother drowned a "Bob" [Last name omitted to protect the guilty] apparently skimmed same and, thinking I was being sarcastic/insensitive, submitted a post of his own with a  few of the lines from my post he misconstrued. For the opportunity to restate the point of my original post will gladly forego asking for mea culpa from Bob for wrongful skimming/snipping me to make me sound like a bastard/calling me a bastard/etc., etc. since I also know his heart was in the right place. Thus, again: Here’s hoping the fellow who lost his brother will tell us if his brother’s two boys are in financial straits and, if so, whether and where there’s a trust fund where those of us who are interested can send something. (And oh, Bob, re your calling me a bastard: No hard feelings (Though I hope you didn’t hurt my father’s feelings, whoever he is….)

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I’m sorry to hear about your brother,I offer my condolences.My brother did the same thing,luckily he survied.I was to far from him to help and I just stood there in disbelief.I think he was trying to get out of the water to take a leek,and tripped on a rock and fell forward. Being a steep dropoff right next to shore he could not reach the bottom with his hand.  As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.  I now fish with a floater vest or a floater collar,and so does my brother, we enjoy our fishing trips together and especially float tubing. It’s a very exciting sport and I hope you do not give it up. BTW he is my twin brother,and I don’t want to lose him. Just sharing my experience with everybody and maybe it hits home to some people. Tight lines,Frank

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. is there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new  reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

Response:

: On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube : over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what : made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left : two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, : moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he : loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his : class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered : from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… : If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop : me a note. Sorry to hear of your loss. Can the tubes be flipped while leaning backwards with one arm extended to the rear and feet out in front of you? Suggestion for discussion: When diving, I wear a large dull knife strapped to my leg. This is mostly to impress the tourons. However, after having managed to get all tangled up in a monoline fishing net once, there is now a small, double-edged, very sharp, serrated (sp?) edged knife fastened to my shoulder strap. Next time I’ll leave all that equipment down there with a few quick strokes of that knife when the release buckles are all tied up. Maybe it is just me, but after a couple of emergency situations, you go prepared. When upside down in a tube, can an escape be managed with a slash to the tube and a couple cuts on shoulder straps? I know, like you don’t have enough junk hanging on your vest already. Also, there are ankle weights for divers that don’t like diving upside down. I assume tubers have these also to help paddle around? Bill

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died…

Rich: My sincerest condolences to you and your family… very sorry to hear this tragic news.

Response:

As a last resort he started to dog paddle,and managed to get enough air (and a bit of water)in his lungs to keep going.He managed to make it to shore.

I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this assumption? Wet exits are the one and only facet of kayaking I’m proficient at, having had lots of practice while trying to learn to roll.

The panic factor and 35 degree water might be a problem with this assumption.  Keeping your wits about you would be difficult.  I assume you practiced rolling your kayak under somewhat controlled conditions.  I never practiced flipping my tube. Does a PFD really help if you are flipped over.  Will it keep your head up when the tube is flipped over and your legs are pointed to the sky, or will it keep you from flipping in the first place?.  Just curious if anyone has experienced a flip while wearing a life jacket. John

Response:

: I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you : that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them????? It _CAN_ be done!!  I have not managed to do so yet, but there have been times where I leaned way over the side of tube to reach for a snagged line. I would have the opposite side of the tube lift out of the water and start to roll. I am only about 175#, but I used to flip truck tire tubes in the pool when I was a kid by leaning on one side of them. The trick is to stay reasonably centered and keep your butt in the water. Even when I get a big wake from a boat, I easily stay upright and ride it out. Wheee! Jon Porter

Response:

: I always assumed that if my tube turned over, I would use the Kayakers’ : last restort: a wet exit.  I.e., calmly reach down (or is it up?), : pull my feet out, and exit the tube.  Anyone see a problem with this : assumption? You should be able to _drop_ out of a tube. I can get into my Caddis with the seat strap buckled while wearing fins. I figure that getting out (even upside down) should not be much harder. The trick is to keep your wits about you when the thing flips! Jon Porter

Response:

I have spent many an hour in a float tube ,and I must tell you that I am amazed that anyone has had one flip over on them?????

Response:

First for safety I would say we need to wear PFD’s of some type.  Second we should never be without a good readily available knife.  Third it isn’t a bad Idea to try to flip one with a friend present and try a water exit. Not panicing is probably the key.  Neoprene waders are very bouyant and can hinder a water exit plus they are cumbersome.

Response:

If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

I find that the lower I set my self in the tube the better control I have over it  This may take away some of my casting ability but I feel safer. Condolences on your loss

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing…..

   First of all, let me say I’m very sorry for your loss.    This should be a heads-up for float-tubers and anyone thinking about buying one.  A friend of mine flipped his in the Green River and fortunately was able to right himself in shallow water while I watched helplessly from fifty yards away.  He is 6′2" and 250 lbs and was in a Browning tube which is way too small and carries you way too high, especially if you are his size.  He will never use that tube again.  In the same year a boy drowned in that river when his tube flipped.  Tubing in rivers is especially dangerous because the current can make it even more difficult than it already is to free yourself from a flipped tube, not to mention hazards like rocks.  If you flip, don’t try to right yourself.  Try to remain calm and just swim out.    For what it’s worth, I have a Caddis tube.  It is about the largest diameter tube I have ever seen and I sit quite low in it.  I am 6′ and 170 lbs. and I don’t think I could flip it if I tried unless I was standing in very shallow water.  I also always wear a lifevest. -alan

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon. I don’t know what made the tube flip – but I know I will never use one again. Bill left two small boys – Sam, 2 and Jake, 7. Bill was an avid fly fisherman, moving to Prineville to teach science and be closer to the rivers he loved to fish. His last project, about two weeks ago,  was to take his class out and they planted 800 trees bordering a stream that had suffered from cattle grazing. I hope the stream recovers… If you have any information on why or how tubes can flip – please drop me a note.

Tragic.  Deepest, deepest condolences. You did not mention the use of a life jacket.  Was your brother wearing one ? TW

Response:

On March 29, 1996 my younger brother Bill died when his float tube over turned in a small pond near Prineville, Oregon.  

        (Snip) Sheesh: you write a post like that to a group consisting of thousands of

lunatics who by definition sit around staring at their $2000 and up computertoys and fairly regularly drop $300-$500 on flyrods, $100-$400 on reels, take fly-in trips around the world, etc., etc., and you don’t tell us if the boys’ mother and you and whatever other family is involved could use a hand with the expenses of raising the boys and whether a trust fund has been set up for them and the address….? Maybe you/they don’t need a hand (i.e. if there a lawsuit pending against the tube manufacturer?) but if they do why don’t you let us know? Geez, I mean I might have to put off buying that new   reel I want for a whole month or so but I think I could swing it….

        Well, . very crass, but I think your heart is in the right place. I think its a super idea. If, after they recover some from the shock of their loss, the family would accept some help from others who shared your brothers passion, I for one would be very willing to help.  

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Question:

Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge

Response:

Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge

They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve.

Response:

Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve.

Well, I take it back.  I just got my new Golden Hackle catalog, and the price has gone up to $195 for a #1 cape.  I haven’t seen a new F&F, but I would bet his price went way up too, since Gordon at the Golden Hackle is pretty fair with his prices. Steve

Response:

Another source of jungle cock is Dan Bailey’s catalog page 33.  The feathers are selected by size and sell for $5.95 per package. For futhure info call 800-356-4052. Good Tying & Tight Lines Al BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT

Response:

The Cabela’s 1996 fly-fishing catalog has #1 capes for $125 and #2 capes for $97

The (new?) British monthly Fly Fishing and Fly Tying has currently an inserted catalogue for Anglia Fisheries listing #1 jungle cock capes for 80 pounds — much the same as Cabelas. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone tell me the price a Jungle Cock cape is worth and were can i order some. Tanks Serge They cost around $125. The Golden Hackle Fly Shop  1-800-449-4359 or Fly & Field 1-800-328-9753 Steve. Well, I take it back.  I just got my new Golden Hackle catalog, and the price has gone up to $195 for a #1 cape.  I haven’t seen a new F&F, but I would bet his price went way up too, since Gordon at the Golden Hackle is pretty fair with his prices. Stev

You  can also call Shannon’s Toronto Canada 1.800.618.1418

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