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Cutups and Cutthroats

admin — Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"ci+" wrote in news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: > not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring > reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as > obsolescence

Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" in news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >"ci+" wrote in >news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >> as obsolescence > Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out > people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

it must be cheaper to operate than a b2. maybe the costs have been amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2? — If Tolkien didn’t want us to eat Hobbits, why did he make them of meat?

Response:

"ci+" wrote in news:Xns95587B395BB97ci@65.245.115.2: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" in > news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >>"ci+" wrote in >>news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >>> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >>> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >>> as obsolescence >> Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out >> people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses! > it must be cheaper to operate than a b2. maybe the costs have been > amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2?

It was made in California…which has a large number of representatives in Congress. Other than that I can’t think of a reason why the USAF wanted a high-altitude bomber. Vested interests & entrenched beauracrats would be my guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" wrote in message … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the > side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good > Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to > humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney > take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear > how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention > time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox.

how do you make hitler funny? h

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" in news:Xns95582DA24AE22fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to > the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part > "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. > Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch > Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie > ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At > convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe > Lunchbox. > How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted > that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy > back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? > How you livin’, dawg? > And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that > French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished > their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes > went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. > Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the > Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed > to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. > Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and > dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the > direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists > have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the > metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his > free fall. > Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering,

those 2 seem exaggerated . > Afghanistan is reverting to warlords,

is it? i think it’s had setbacks, and their citizens suffer typical human inflexibilty… guaranteeing slow social progress…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dick Cheney is glowering at the > world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad > Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy > for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold > Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard > Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re > feeling cocky. > Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, > in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who > have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a > shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi > Jane. >"I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those > statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the > president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. > Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if > it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than > flip-flopping, even if it’s right.

funny how foxnews dittohead hotheads don’t even realize that the repugs are sinking in their own quicksand… all on their own. no one is really opposing them. > When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is > unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy > – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into > nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush > black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable.

ha! kerry says almost nothing. bush out-bloopers kerry. which is worse? … >: > While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, > the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. > Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made > Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said > Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world > country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and > Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers.

not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as obsolescence > Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, > so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John > Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. > Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading > ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed > with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al > Qaeda.

’a more sensitive war on terror’ i’ve hearda bout this only via insulting reactoins. just now googled, http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200408061120.asp whihc is amazingly polite ciriticism, rare among wrought-wingers. if this column is accurate regarding kerry’s intended meaning behind his phrase ‘more sensitive war on terror’, then kerry’s missing out on what his phrase *should* have meant. becoming frineds with citizens of countries whrer terrorirsts "breed" is probably the most effective "war on terror"…. ’sensitive’ or ‘nonsensitive’. > As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian > community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was > having a ruthless, but effective, week.

did they have an orgies? why do repugs have all the fun! i must be too sensitive. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 &q=firemen+sex+Scandal++Fordham+%7C+Brooklyn%7C+york — A nude Gollum on your doorstep is burn baby, burn

Response:

Cutups and Cutthroats By MAUREEN DOWD Published: September 2, 2004 I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. Advertisement Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of course, it’s global domination. It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox. How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? How you livin’, dawg? And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his free fall. Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering, Afghanistan is reverting to warlords, Dick Cheney is glowering at the world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re feeling cocky. Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi Jane. "I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than flip-flopping, even if it’s right. When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable. While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers. Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al Qaeda. As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was having a ruthless, but effective, week.

Response:

Loop Knots

admin — Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was probably coming into the conversation late – what’s new?! I usually use a duncan loop to tie tippet to fly. I usually start with a fairly loose knot in the hope that the fly will move in a more natural manner (and that that will make a difference), but it usually tightens up after a few casts. If I can ever get to the point that I can tell that my choice of fly-to-tippet connection makes a difference I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly. anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation. i use the surgeon’s loop at times. i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ? I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

Try the "non-slip loop", which is the Rapala loop without the final step. Both are supposed to be stronger than the Duncan.

Thanks. The main need I have for strength is for pulling flies out of brush. Bob Wondering if it’s better to break the line at the tippet-to-fly connection or at the tippet-to-leader . . .

Response:

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Like Bill says below I’ve used it as a loop knot on a fly works great and very strong. Good idea to use as a tippet connector I’ll have to try.

Response:

I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

liar, liar, pants on fire. we all know you’re an accountant! yfitons wayno

Response:

Wayne Knight suggested that Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. I have been having problems tying small flies on to tippet (especially dry flies), so I now pre-snell/tie them, at my tying table with plenty of light and magnification, to about 16" – 18" of tippet and store them in a thing called a "Pip’s Box" made by Mack’s Lure of Leavenworth, Washington State US (You can hold better than a dozen flies or so with this thing without tangling the tippet, and it comes in colors with a see thru lid. I organize my flies by the color of the box.) My eyesight, especially at twilight or later, is not so good even with a flashlight. I just can’t seem to get the tippet thru then I have a hell of a time tying the knot IF I get it threaded. I am using Fluorocarbon tippet, these days, and I feel that a blood knot is not adequate for this material. I then use a Tie-Fast Knot Tying tippet to the leader with their double splicing knot or double nail knot as some have described it, which I believe is considerably stronger than the blood knot, or at least my blood knots anyway…be curious to see if anyone else has the same experience. Just my two cents worth, anyway Padishar Creel

Response:

we all know you’re an accountant! Always prospecting for business, huh? Bob

Response:

I think I will, Wayne. I made a leader, per Lefty Kreh’s directions, for casting big bugs. However, I used uni to uni knots. I think I will make another one with blood knots and attach it. I mastered nail knots a long time ago. Now, I am trying to expand my knot repertoire. I still maintain that the perfection loop is a myth… Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Response:

Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop.

it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line.

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Ralph, — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

Steve, Lefty really promoted the non-slip loop knot and now I see most of all using it with flies we want to move freely like a Clouser minnow. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Nice contribution. Very helpful. I hope you continue to foster goodwill in this group and for the sport of fly fishing. Bugged – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

//snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ? I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference.

I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly. anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation. i use the surgeon’s loop at times. i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ? I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

I’ve found its hard to beat a perfection loop for most leader connections. The perfection (if tied properly) stands straight out from the standing line with no offset, and the knot strength is near 100%. I use it on all leader butts (with a whipped loop on the fly line), & on all tippet connections down to 4x. 5x & smaller I use a doubled surgeons knot. I think its easier to tie than a surgeons loop, and, well….. it looks cool! B.J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Hi All, In larger diameter mono like attaching leader to a butt section we use perfection loops because they are a smaller, cleaner knot and strength is not an issue. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. In larger diameter mono like attaching a leader to a butt section we also use a blood knot because it is a smaller, cleaner knot. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we also use a triple surgeons knot because it is stronger. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony

Hi Tony, Go here for any knot you’re apt to use: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/ Frank Sr.

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop?

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

I speaking only from the leader end, agree blood knot to attach a butt section to a leader.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

A 45 year old mystery.

admin — Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you.

Agreed. I think the only way to settle this for sure is to find someone familiar with this particular hatch on that body of water. Wolfgang

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes. There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata. While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly."

H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug. Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata. Wolfgang

Response:

JAFB, Wolfie — TBone

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes. There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata. While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." H. limbata is much too light colored and too large to be my mystery bug. Still having trouble getting on the web, so I haven’t been able to look at H. recurvata (or Litobrancha recurvata as it now seems to be called), or the Epeorus you mentioned earlier for that matter. I’m surprised to read that the Green Drake is considered by Kropp and Cormier to be the largest of the North american mayflies; every reference I’ve seen says that honor belongs to H. limbata.

I think you may have that backwards in that I think you’ll find that Recurvata is larger than Limbata, but only just. In any case, they are close enough in size that it doesn’t really matter – if one is much too large, the other will be as well. If they are too large, then color really doesn’t matter, but I’ve seen references that indicate both can range in color. Based on the information that Recurvata/Limbata is much too large, I’d try to get a look at Epeorus. Here’s a link I found: http://www.mayfly.com/articles/WW7.html by Al Caucci and I’ve also emailed you a copy of the "suspect." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang

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rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake),

was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer! Tom

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rdean notes: Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), was….then got reclassified as Litobrancha Recurvata. Geez, all this latin has me dizzy. Let me grab a beer! Tom

Ah…thanks. I guess then I ought to add that everything I’ve indicated in this thread may be equally outdated. I’m almost afraid to ask, but…any idea why? TC, R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg That looks a lot more like what I remember. There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown. On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range. Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger.

What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")? If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search. If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember. I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double wings…" TC, R

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Um…Recurvata is Hexagenia Recurvata ((Great) Dark Green Drake), and the L. mentioned by Tom is likely from the similar, but smaller, H. Limbata. While it would seemingly fit Wolfgang’s description ("Hatches" even makes mention of it appearing "almost black" on the wing), it is a Hexagenia. Wolfgang – you said something about being certain it was not hexagenia – why? As H. Recurvata and H. Limbata are close, with the Limbata hatch even being known mistakenly in Michigan as, again, according to "Hatches," a "Caddis Hatch," and also being called a "Michigan Caddis" or "Michigan Mayfly." TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I’ve found all kinds of good entomological sites on the web, but all fall short of what would be ideal for this situation. For example, I found a site that has range maps for all known mayfly species within the state of Wisconsin (a USGS site, of all the odd places) but as interesting, and doubtless valuable, this information is, it’s pretty much useless without cross referenced information regarding appearance, habitat, and habit of the target species. Although the Web has a vast amount of information, it is often difficult or even impossible to find the specific information that you want. I would like to see the studies done at public Universities made available on the Internet. Because the data would need to be inputted, it would be costly and difficult for older studies, but virtually all current research is composed on a computer and making them available to the public wouldn’t be a monumental task. This access could be a condition for any researchers getting public funding for their research. Consulting an entomologist has occurred to me, but this is neither as easy nor necessarily as promising as it might sound. First, one would necessarily have to find an aquatic entomologist (or at least one with a specific interest in aquatic species…..a fly fisher perhaps). I know of a good aquatic entomologist at UW, Stevens Point but he happens to specialize in plecoptera and, scientific specialties being what they are, this might not help much even if I were trying to identify a stonefly unless he happened to be a taxonomist or have some other reason to be familiar with my target species. I have corresponded with a couple entomologists specializing in Mayflies that were very willing to help me with some questions I had. I can give you their email addresses if you’re interested but with the little bit of information you have (and it is from a forty year old memory) I don’t think they will be able to help you. As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal differently than expected for a variety of reasons. Hell, it isn’t even unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown to science. Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time. There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner. For example, an uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial confluence of circumstances. You may very well be right about this. One of the researchers I contacted said that they were MANY unknown species and local variations. There just isn’t much grant money available to study them. The vast amount of research done on insects is on insect control (where the money is). Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What about an Epeorus variety – "Iron Dun," and even "Quill Gordon," perhaps, to some (or "Dark Wing Quill Gordon")? If you have the Caucci/Nastasi "Hatches," you will find info there, or perhaps a web search. If you do the web search, don’t take the first picture you find, if it appears unlike the one you remember. I did a search, looked at a couple, and there seems to be no actual consensus among the few sites I looked at as to exactly what was what. I did, however, notice this one, which unfortunately, has no picture: http://www.maineflyfishing.com/bluedun/pattern.htm Look under "Quill Gordon," where it says, "Quill Gordons are called Epeorus Pleuralis (ee-pee-or-us ploor-alice) by those up on Latin and just plain old "bigggggg dark mayflies" or "Iron Duns" by the rest of us. They are big (size 10/12), dark, have two tails (barred and equal to their body length), double wings…"

Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to access anything on the web right now. We had some trouble with the college server last week. Looks like it may not be entirely resolved yet. I’ll take a look at the Epeorus as soon as I can. Thanks Wolfgang

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I think the prize goes to Tom (a shiny, new nickel) as Kropp and Cormier’s "Mayflies’ list the Dark Green Drake as the largest of the N.A. mayfly species, larger than our hexes. There is quite a size range with body length ranging from a 16 to 40 millimeters and a recommended hook size from 12 to a whopping #2. According to the book, they are clumsy on takeoff as they are so large, often skipping across the water. They emerge at dusk or after sunset being primarily a cool lake species but slow, silty parts of rivers will hold them too. BTW, at the beginning of August, we drove through a blizzard light cahill hatch at dusk. Still trying to get the critters off my car. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula.

I was fortunate to fish a Brown Drake hatch this year at Silver Creek. These are by far the largest mayflies I’ve ever seen, and the hatch was prolific. The hatch occurs in the evening and through the night, until it’s so dark that you can only detect the takes by ear. These bugs live in slow moving water with a silty bottom. The nymphs are swimmers, and they’ll take fish before the hatch with a stripped retrieve. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Wolfgang, dear boy. There is only one mayfly that is as prolific as the ones you describe. Hexagina Limbatas! So thick are they during the early days that they would cover a cabin and all the screen doors with their numbers. God! What an insect! George Gehrke

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Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

Nope. Found a picture of Ephemera simulans: http://www.flyshop.com/bench/hatchguide/index.cfm?page=bug&row=13 Not the same critter at all. As the common name suggests, this beastie is brown. The one I remember is black. Thanks. Wolfgang

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I think they were some kind of a variation of huge Brown Drake. Hear me out. I’ve got the same question… 55-60 years ago, when I was growing up in Chicago, I lived on the far north side 2 blocks from Lake Michigan. Every summer, sometime in June, there was a massive hatch of Mayflys almost exactly as you describe. They were coming off the shore of the lake. There was no other body of water within 50 miles that could support such a hatch. It was so prolific it completely blackened the street lights, covered the store front windows – you couldn’t see out. They covered the ground so thick they squished under your feet. I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black. They were easily size 6 – 8. They were NOT Hexigina. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes. Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth. Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off. The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas?

wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image… –waldo

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Wolfgang asks: Any ideas?

ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access). People will probably suggest Ephemera and Hexes, but there an awful lot of obscure mayfly species, and lakes have locale specific subspecies you might never encounter unless you blunder on them. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since. Tom

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Did it look like this? http://www.charlesmeck.com/600slatedrake.jpg

That looks a lot more like what I remember. There’s still a good bit of brown in this one but, in truth, 40 some years later it’s hard to be certain that the bugs I saw and which I was NOT interested in examining closely did not have some brown. On the other hand, a brief search on the web shows that both Isonychia bicolor and Isonychia sadleri are referred to as Slate Drakes and both of these, according to the hatch charts I looked at, run in the 14-12 size range. Again, it’s quite possible that my memory has magnified them, but I’m fairly certain these bugs were bigger. All in all, I think uncle Wally’s candidate looks the most promising. Wolfgang

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. Any ideas? wolfie, no discounting…. it must have been…. http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/images/bat_big_jpg_image…

THAT’S IT! I’d recognize the bastard anywhere! Wolfgang who is reasonably certain he doesn’t even want to know what the nymphs look like. :(

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I remember talking about this with you, but I don’t recall whether you said anything about the substrate there. The bugs I encountered would almost have to have been burrowers. The bottom of this lake was very soft….even very near shore where turbulence would wash away at least some of the muck you would sink at least ankle deep in the stuff. I’m not intimately familiar with the Lake Michigan shoreline in the Chicago area, so I may have missed it, but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom. Do you know of any such? I remember some of them having a very dark brown hue as well as slate gray to black. They were easily size 6 – 8.

Size and color scheme sound about right. They were NOT Hexigina.

Absolutely right. Impossible to mistake the Hex for anything else. Moreover, while I don’t remember just how long they were around, we encountered them when we first left the cottage in the morning, which would have been fairly early (at a cottage on a lake in what we thought of as the north woods nothing…..well, almost nothing…could keep us indoors much past sunrise on a sunny day) and I remember that we stayed inside for the rest of the day, and perhaps even the next. These bugs were active….VERY active….throughout the day. I never found out what they were for sure. In recent years I’ve seen other similar hatches coming off clear Canadian Lakes that were known to be Brown Drakes.

Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that? Wolf, keep it as a sweet memory of your youth. Dream about someday being on a stream or lake holding 10 lb. Rainbow when a hatch like that comes off. The fish go wild and you go bonkers. Heaven.

Pretty picture! Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

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Wolfgang writes… but I don’t believe there’s any large protected area that would have that kind of soft bottom. Do you know of any such?

That’s true. It was a clean sandy bottom. Not protected. Well washed by the wave action. Vegatation about 30 to 50 yds out from shore. Didn’t you also tell me the last time we talked about them that you thought you had seen them again in the Chicago area…..or am I imagining that?

I don’t think so. You’re imagining. Pretty picture! Somewhat surprisingly, perhaps, I find the thought of finding the hatch again even more appealing than the idea of the monster fish. Wolfgang

I still think they were Brown Drakes. Looked a lot like the picture from the web site Warren posted. But they were 6 & 8 for sure – not 10 & 12. Big guys! I’ll dream of catching 10 lb. rainbow. You dream of being blanketed by a hatch of monster mayflys. we need to talk logistics concerning the upcoming trip.

Let me know the details. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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Wolfgang asks: Any ideas? ask around among the academic types for someone who knows an entomologist. There are probably very good entomologies online(which may limit access).

Right, on all counts. Both Ephemera and Isonychia look like good candidates based on photos, but both are questionable on the basis of size. I don’t yet know enough about habit or habitat with regard to either genus. Hexagenia limbata is definitely out for a variety of reasons. As you stated, local subspecies might look and behave a great deal differently than expected for a variety of reasons. Hell, it isn’t even unreasonable to suppose that we might be dealing with a species unknown to science. Granted, it isn’t likely but new species (especially of small and highly localized arthropods) do turn up from time to time. There is also the possibility (admittedly also unlikely) of a known species behaving in an uncharacteristic manner. For example, an uncommon species might suddenly reproduce successfully in undreamed of numbers within a given location due to an unusual and highly beneficial confluence of circumstances. I will venture with the closest I have ever seen. It would be: L(Litobrancha?).Recurvata, which was once classified with the Hexes.

I just looked up Litobrancha. Interestingly, the first hit I looked at was a UW Stevens Point website which contains a list of "AQUATIC INSECTS OF WISCONSIN RECENT SYNONYMS AT SPECIFIC OR HIGHER LEVELS" authored by none other than Stanley W. Szczytko, the aquatic entomologist I mentioned above, and Jeffrey J. Dimick, who used to be (and quite possibly still is) president of a local TU chapter in the area. They list Litobrancha in the "recent taxonomy" column next to Hexagenia (in part) under "prior taxonomy", and Litobrancha recurvata next to Hexagenia recurvata. Looking at another dozen or sites, I have not yet found a photo. I’ll keep working on this one. In PA they are called Dark Green Drakes. They hatch at or into dark, sometimes on real cloudy days, a bit earlier, say 7 PM. They are huge, maybe bigger than the Green Drakes. The bodies are a darkish grey, with rings of paler yellow tan along the abdomen. Wings are a smokey grey, mottled somewhat. They look nasty, as they are a bit heftier in the body(squatter, might be better). Hatched out of a silty pool in Penns one night on Makela and I, fish going silly, no good imitations, massive bugs in mouth and hair, etc.etc. That was in 1993, haven’t seen one since.

Doesn’t sound like my bug. I don’t know when they came off, but they were very active through a bright sunny day. Of course, it must be remembered that I’m basing all of this on memories of an event that occurred more than forty years ago and that I was not much interested in close observation of the bugs at the time. In all likelihood, I’ll never be able to solve this mystery. I thought (and I still do) that my best bet was to put it out here and hope that someone just happens to be familiar with this hatch in this particular place. I think it’s just about time for a brilliant lurker with an encyclopedic knowledge of the Ephemeroptera to show him or herself and demonstrate how pitiful the rest of us really are. Wolfgang thanks tom.

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Well, roughly anyway. Maybe this is it? Late June through mid July – Ephemera Simulans, Brown Drake, this is the most prevalent large mayfly hatch in the Upper Peninsula. Willi

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Well, roughly anyway. My father’s cousin, Sam Friederich, owned a couple acres of land and a cottage (a dacha, as a Russian physicist I recently spoke with, "…not what YOU call a cottage here!" called it) on Kangaroo lake in Door County, Wisconsin. For those not familiar with the area, Door County is the long finger of land which runs to the northeast up into Lake Michigan and thus forms Green Bay to the west. Kangaroo lake, http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=45.0325&lon=-87.15889 was, in the late 1950s, lightly developed. There were a couple of small resorts, a few permanent year round homes, several cottages like the one we frequently stayed at, all of them on the larger, southern section of the lake south of the causeway, and a single very large estate on the island. Whatever organic pollutants entered the lake as a result of human habitation were still minimal at that time. In other words, the water was very clean and the biome had probably changed little since pre-Columbian times. Kangaroo lake was a wonderful place to swim, even for city bred kids like me, as long as one didn’t allow one’s feet to touch the bottom. The lake bed was marl, and thus about as icky a thing to come into contact with as was imagineable….except, of course, for the things that actually LIVED in that oozy bottom! One day all those things that lived in the bottom (although I didn’t realize their origin at the time) came out. The air was filled with bugs. Millions of bugs. Maybe billions of bugs. They were so bold or so crazed or stupid that they would land on anything or anybody. Adult reassurances that they were perfectly harmless fell on deaf ears and neither I nor my brothers or sister could be coaxed to go outside for any reason…..threats and coercion worked, but you get the picture. In the ensuing years, I have often wondered exactly what those bugs were. My interest in fly fishing, running close onto twenty years worth now, makes it easy to say with certainty that they were some variety of mayfly, but I still haven’t been able to identify the species. Discounting them by about thirty percent for temporal magnification and the horror factor still leaves them at a good size eight or even a solid six…..and possibly a bit larger. They were a dark, slate gray to nearly black and, if memory serves after all these years, they were almost certainly duns or sub-imagos….dark, nearly opaque wings. On a couple of occasions in the last two or three years I’ve made occasional efforts to locate resources on line which might solve the mystery for me but have, as yet, had no success. Any ideas? Wolfgang

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USA Today

admin — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Allen As a retired labor economist, harumph, harumph. . . you are on the money ($25-35) for most of the biz/corp and entry pilots. And the folks flying the regional nets don’t get much more. Same goes for mechanics, helo pilots etc. Folks do it for the love of aviation near as I can tell. Dime a dozen here in Seattle area. As to the $200k after 10-12 years with a major. . . I think you are high, but I never did a formal analysis of the high end. Dave

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I know that’s why *I* started – to meet a better class of people. — TL, Tim (the elitest)

Years ago, Ed Zern wrote a column refuting the notion that only a better class of people fly fish. He said one of the most skillful dry-fly men he ever saw owned a string of sporting houses up and down the East Coast. vince norris

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Years ago, Ed Zern…said one of the most skillful dry-fly men he ever saw owned a string of sporting houses up and down the East Coast.

Still, fly fishing must attract SOME people of lesser quality, don’tcha think? :) Wolfgang

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Those guys had access to a private jet? From my experiences as a Grand Canyon Guide, you probably could have chatted up those pilots, showed them a casting trick or two, and gotten an invite to get flown somewhere in return. A friend of mine is a pilot and flew for an oil man for a while back when oil was king. He didn’t have much, if any, latitude at all where the plane went or who went along – but he did get to fish with his boss when he flew him on fishing trips.

Did he ever ‘drop your name’ to his boss as a potential fishing partner? Of course, a lot depends on the relationship between boss, pilot and plane, but I bet many pilots who regularly fly for the same owner would be good people to be chums with. A ladyfriend of mine got a free sail around the world when she became chummy with the captain of some oil magnates yacht. riverman

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I never asked him to ‘drop my name’, but another friend we both grew up with was always trying to mooch something and I don’t think he was very successful. My pilot friend wanted to move on up to an airline job and I wasn’t interested in asking him to risk anything with his boss. It would probably be easier if you could find someone at the end of their career who didn’t give a shit.

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USA Today has an article today (June 21) about executives and flyfishing. "There’s something about flyfishing that attracts people who rise to the top." etc… Remove "XX" from address

From their site: "Fly fishing is not the passive sport of putting a worm on a hook. It’s a graceful back-and-forth casting in the air of fishing line and feathers tied tight to a hook and the skilled landing of the fly atop the water, insect manna from heaven to a finicky fish." Who in the hell have they been watching? John

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – USA Today has an article today (June 21) about executives and flyfishing. "There’s something about flyfishing that attracts people who rise to the top." etc… Remove "XX" from address From their site: "Fly fishing is not the passive sport of putting a worm on a hook. It’s a graceful back-and-forth casting in the air of fishing line and feathers tied tight to a hook and the skilled landing of the fly atop the water, insect manna from heaven to a finicky fish." Who in the hell have they been watching? John

Not me, that’s fer sure. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Private pilots for an executive? Heh, heh, heh. They make a helluva lot more than the average roffian and should be able to pay for their own flyfishing vacation. But, still….. perhaps the exec thinks familiarity breeds contempt.

I didn’t get the impression from either of those groups of private pilots that they were rolling in dough. They were doing OK, about like your average professional. Not as well as you, Dave. The first group I met, a couple of years ago, had just flown Edgar Bronfman, Jr. (of Seagram’s) in for a society weekend in Sun Valley. I was naturally curious about the lifestyles of the rich and famous, so I asked questions. Bronfman’s jet was a Gulfstream IV, which, if I recall correctly, they said cost $60 million. They that said he (or the company) had more than one — they weren’t sure how many, but at least two. It required a crew of three and cost $5000/hr to operate (not including the crew). Incredible. Those pilots had never flyfished before, and there they were fishing the morning Trico spinner fall on Silver Creek, with #12 Royal Wulffs and 5x tippet, slapping the water on their backcasts. I’d never fished that hatch before either, but I was prepared, with the right flies and 7x tippet. I got really lucky and picked a spot right above a large pod of fish. Caught three nice ‘bows. (Yeah, I know, Wolfgang, you insufferable dipshit.) They thought I was a fishing god. If only they knew. I gave them tippet and some flies, and told them about the spring-creek downstream presentation, but it didn’t do any good that day. Maybe if they came back later it helped. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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jet was a Gulfstream IV, which, if I recall correctly, they said cost $60 million

check out these guys: http://www.eclipseaviation.com/ bruce h

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You’d be surprised. Corporate pilots generally don’t make a much money at all. It’s a way to build multi-engine turbine flight time and get to a major airline where they make more money than I care to think about (after 4 years that is) The corporate pilot lifestyle often is an on-call job so having a life is tough unless it’s a big company that has multiple aircraft and crews. Even at a major airline first year pilot pay is only about $20K but generally by the time you get to 10 or 12 years and a Captain you’re up above $200K Allen Epps Catonsville, MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw writes: Silver Creek snipped Private pilots for an executive? Heh, heh, heh. They make a helluva lot more than the average roffian and should be able to pay for their own flyfishing vacation. But, still….. perhaps the exec thinks familiarity breeds contempt. Dave

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i’ll put silver creek "on the must see list"… thanx…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – silver creek…as in near gramby, co?? No. It’s near Picabo, ID. (Also fairly near Bellevue, Hailey, and Ketchum, and about 100 miles from Stanley, my home town.) Silver Creek, Idaho is a famous spring creek — one of the very best in the Western US. Much of it is public water, so it gets a lot of pressure. I especially like to fish it in the Fall, when I’m sometimes the only one there. You’re going to be in Ketchum in August, right, beancounter? If so, you just HAVE pay a visit to Silver Creek. Even if you don’t catch one of those notoriously selective trout, it’s worth the experience. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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… They thought I was a fishing god. If only they knew. I gave them tippet and some flies, and told them about the spring-creek downstream presentation, but it didn’t do any good that day. Maybe if they came back later it helped.

Those guys had access to a private jet? From my experiences as a Grand Canyon Guide, you probably could have chatted up those pilots, showed them a casting trick or two, and gotten an invite to get flown somewhere in return. Folks would wait 5 years and pay thousands of dollars to do Canyon trips, but I had access to the boats, gear, and was doing 4-6 trips a year. I could

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A friend of mine is a pilot and flew for an oil man for a while back when oil was king. He didn’t have much, if any, latitude at all where the plane went or who went along – but he did get to fish with his boss when he flew him on fishing trips. — Charlie…

Response:

silver creek…as in near gramby, co??

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When I was at Silver Creek a couple of weeks ago I met two pilots who fly a private jet. Oddly, this was the second time that’s happened to me at Silver Creek. They’d flown in some super wealthy Chicago commodities trader who was fishing exclusive private water all over the western Rockies. We got to talking about how those super rich people lead such different lives from us. They were kind of bitter about it, complaining about how cheap their boss was and how he’d never dream of inviting them to fish the private water. I said that we have more fun than they do, and those guys agreed with a laugh. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

silver creek…as in near gramby, co??

No. It’s near Picabo, ID. (Also fairly near Bellevue, Hailey, and Ketchum, and about 100 miles from Stanley, my home town.) Silver Creek, Idaho is a famous spring creek — one of the very best in the Western US. Much of it is public water, so it gets a lot of pressure. I especially like to fish it in the Fall, when I’m sometimes the only one there. You’re going to be in Ketchum in August, right, beancounter? If so, you just HAVE pay a visit to Silver Creek. Even if you don’t catch one of those notoriously selective trout, it’s worth the experience. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

rw writes: When I was at Silver Creek a couple of weeks ago I met two pilots who fly a private jet. Oddly, this was the second time that’s happened to me at Silver Creek. They’d flown in some super wealthy Chicago commodities trader who was fishing exclusive private water all over the western Rockies. We got to talking about how those super rich people lead such different lives from us. They were kind of bitter about it, complaining about how cheap their boss was and how he’d never dream of inviting them to fish the private water. I said that we have more fun than they do, and those guys agreed with a laugh.

Response:

Tim J writes: Maybe what they’re saying is that if you flyfish, you are in the top percentile of the human race. I know that’s why *I* started – to meet a better class of people. — Yeah, and ya ended up with me, Fortenberry, Wolfie, wayno, walt, Jeffie, rw, Warren, all the Waynes, a Reid, and anyone else who calls himself a roffian. Seems like you got screwed! d;0) Dave

You’re telling me! — TL, Tim . . . but you guys ended up with me, so we’re even!

Response:

When I was at Silver Creek a couple of weeks ago I met two pilots who fly a private jet. Oddly, this was the second time that’s happened to me at Silver Creek. They’d flown in some super wealthy Chicago commodities trader who was fishing exclusive private water all over the western Rockies. We got to talking about how those super rich people lead such different lives from us. They were kind of bitter about it, complaining about how cheap their boss was and how he’d never dream of inviting them to fish the private water. I said that we have more fun than they do, and those guys agreed with a laugh. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Uh, Allen, the term is "bottom dwellers" – I don’t think I want to be known as a nymph – don’t have the bod for it. So….., you would be a celibate slut?

I don’t think that even I could pull off that contradiction . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Umm perhaps I should clarify I meant to type nymphers. Musta been the coupla Ciders I’ve had to celebrate Friday. Allen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Uh, Allen, the term is "bottom dwellers" – I don’t think I want to be known as a nymph – don’t have the bod for it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Tim J writes: Maybe what they’re saying is that if you flyfish, you are in the top percentile of the human race. I know that’s why *I* started – to meet a better class of people. —

Yeah, and ya ended up with me, Fortenberry, Wolfie, wayno, walt, Jeffie, rw, Warren, all the Waynes, a Reid, and anyone else who calls himself a roffian. Seems like you got screwed! d;0) Dave

Response:

Uh, Allen, the term is "bottom dwellers" – I don’t think I want to be known as a nymph – don’t have the bod for it. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Uh, Allen, the term is "bottom dwellers" – I don’t think I want to be known as a nymph – don’t have the bod for it.

So….., you would be a celibate slut? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

USA Today has an article today (June 21) about executives and flyfishing. "There’s something about flyfishing that attracts people who rise to the top." etc…

Maybe what they’re saying is that if you flyfish, you are in the top percentile of the human race. I know that’s why *I* started – to meet a better class of people. — TL, Tim (the elitest)

Response:

TR with a couple pics and 555 line

admin — Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

New flyline review: the 555 5 weight double taper

I thought you were a Dorber man. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Hmmm, good "tip" (get it?) I’m surprised they don’t seal it off at the factory!

Response:

Hmmm, good "tip" (get it?) I’m surprised they don’t seal it off at the factory!

You must be much better at tying knots than I am. I mean if you can tie a nail knot or any other knot used for connecting a leader to a fly line and not have any tag left over to trim…… ;-) — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

New flyline review: the 555 5 weight double taper seemed to cast and shoot great. Roll casting is a breeze, even for a goofball caster like me. But the tip sinks like any other line, in fact probably worse. You have to make sure you seal that fly line before you use it. The core can take on water and sink the line like that if you are not careful. I had the same problem and just hung the line out to dry for a few days and then sealed the end with some Aquaseal.

BTW, Don’t use the 555 line in cold weather or on a cold water tailwater. The line holds memory like no other. I’ve owned a number of other lines including my favorites, RIO, and have never had the problems with a line like my new 555. From the sinking tip to the fly line memory, to the horrible customer support from Cortland. No more cortland lines for this guy. — I fly fish so therefore I am.

Response:

BTW, Don’t use the 555 line in cold weather or on a cold water tailwater. The line holds memory like no other

I didn’t notice any memory problems at all. The line was fine except for the sinking tip. And the San Juan is about 44 degrees. Cortland told me to send it back and they’d replace it immediately. I’m also surprised that Cortland doesn’t recommend sealing the end of the line. bruce h

Response:

BTW, Don’t use the 555 line in cold weather or on a cold water tailwater. The line holds memory like no other I didn’t notice any memory problems at all. The line was fine except for the sinking tip. And the San Juan is about 44 degrees. Cortland told me to send it back and they’d replace it immediately.

Interesting. The email told me to continually stretch it out every day before use and even during the day if necessary! It was a free fly line so I didn’t really press the issue. Based upon all my problems with the line and I have read others report similar problems on other fly fishing boards, I think they have some problems with the line or at least with the production. Even the shop who provided the free lines for a fly swap, believes that something is wrong with the lines! I’m also surprised that Cortland doesn’t recommend sealing the end of the line.

This is such BS. Why in the heck do you buy a new fly line when you need to prep the thing with Zap a Gap or similar? Arghhhhh…. — I fly fish so therefore I am.

Response:

My appointment at 8 am in Santa Fe went quickly and since a flyshop was nearby and it was still early I drove by. They were open. That flyshop is excellent. It’s one of those shops where all the employees and the owners fish a lot and want you to have success. They’re also real experts on the Rio Grande, which I haven’t fished often. http://www.highdesertangler.com The smoke from two fires in the Pecos got my attention on the drive from Santa Fe to Taos, where I had another appointment at 11:30. The Pecos is on the east side of the highway and eventually the road rejoins the Rio Grande, which is on the west side of the highway. In Espanola a very well equipped lowrider made a fast left at an intersection in front of me. With his hydraulics he lifted just the inside front wheel up off the road. If you can imagine the effect – it looked like the Monte Carlo was going to roll, but alas, they just drove away laughing. Don’t let anyone kid you, and with all due respect to SoCal, but Espanola NM is the birthplace and home of the world’s best lowriders. Since I had two and a half hours to make a one hour drive and the Orilla Verde State Park appeared on my left, of course I had to get out and fish on my way to Taos. New flyline review: the 555 5 weight double taper seemed to cast and shoot great. Roll casting is a breeze, even for a goofball caster like me. But the tip sinks like any other line, in fact probably worse. It was early, the only bugs around were tiny midges, and the river is as low as ever in any season. The huge caddis hatch had apparently come and gone, but armed with the advice from High Desert, my plan was to fish little hairwing peacock caddis and parachute adams and see how that went. After a little prospecting and no success, including adding a dropper, I switched to two nymphs, a small pt and a sparkle pupa (good advice from the flyshop) and I caught three large chubs, two small trout and a large sucker that was pretty cool. After my appointment the hiking and scenery were great, but the wind howled and it never got cool enough to get the fish going, although I got a nice brown in really fast water with a stimulator. Fished until dark and bushwhacked back to my truck. Got home about midnight. The San Juan was real fun. My friend was home from Maine and hadn’t fished there in a long time. Hot sunny, not too crowded. We fished Tuesday evening and all day Wednesday. This fish is not great but there aren’t that many browns way upstream in the San Juan: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/BruceBrown2.jpg And here’s a way to take a picture of a nice double when there’s only two of you: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/TwoFishNets.jpg Got home around 1 AM. Thanks to RW for letting me mooch his webspace. bruce h

Response:

You have to make sure you seal that fly line before you use it. The core can take on water and sink the line like that if you are not careful. I had the same problem and just hung the line out to dry for a few days and then sealed the end with some Aquaseal. http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/BruceBrown2.jpg And here’s a way to take a picture of a nice double when there’s only two of you: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/web/TwoFishNets.jpg

Nice pics Bruiser! — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

favorite leader and tipover material

admin — Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Segar Grand Max is pretty hot right now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it. its expensive but works awsome. have you ever perchased florocarbon from cabelas? is it good.

Response:

i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it. its expensive but works awsome. have you ever perchased florocarbon from cabelas? is it good.

Everyone I know whose fishing I respect uses the same old Maxima – reliable, strong, doesn’t get in a twist. LC — Lazarus Cooke

Response:

i like fluoracorbon material since the fish kant see it.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, will berkeley hear it? (the bishop of Cloyne, not the tackle manufacturer in Iowa) Mu

Response:

Vest, chest pack, or Prince Albert can?

admin — Mon, 11 Feb 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Response:

Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Response:

And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape. C.Webster

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed.

There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest. I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips).

Yep. I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

Response:

There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest.

That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret.

Response:

Don’t know about ol’ Prince Albert but of late, I’ve been using a satchel. It’s a smallish bag designed for students with slots for pens, disks, etc. Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Ah, yes . . . reminds me of a gal I saw once in a bar in Okinawa. And the things she could do with a cigarette and a beer bottle . . . but that’s another story . :-) Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest. That sounds like a commercial for the Canadian version of Victoria’s Secret.

Response:

Thanks, Bill. Seems like the vest distributes weight a little better. I don’t have long legs and frequently manage to soak the bottom of my vest, but wonder how a loaded chest pack feels after a day of fishing. Expect I’ll go with the vest. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, It seems like there was a big push for chest packs the last 5 or more years, but lately traditional vests are selling better than ever? We sell mostly shorter vests in Nor Cal because we have larger streams to cross/wade and float tubing too. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I’m about to replace my 15-year-old vest whose only remaining advantage is that it looks "seasoned." What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton

Response:

The first tackle box I ever had was a tobacco can. Can’t remember if it was Prince Albert or Half and Half, but those cans were great. And If you were eight years old you could sometimes find a few shreds of tobacco and really live dangerously. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And can you still get Prince Albert in a can? — Bob Patton Yep. But you gotta get him really drunk first. Pete aka Pogo — You need only two tools. WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn’t, use the tape. C.Webster

Response:

Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. There’s something nice about having a finely crafted piece of canvas, brass and leather hanging on your chest. I vote for the Filson. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Yep. I keep all my trout gear in my chest pack and just leave it there. The rear compartment of the Filson will hold my Hodgeman wading jacket (their low-end nylon jacket) and a thermos (wide-mouth, soup thermos, not a coffee-dispenser style). Mu

Response:

I glue them together back to back. I take two such assemblys and cut radial notches in them and fit them together so they fit 90 degrees to each other. Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

. The CD, of course, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Really cool on the Christmas tree, almost as much fun as watching a lava lamp.

…or watching paint dry, which i will speculate is one of your most challenging intellectual endeavors. get it? wayno

Response:

Thanks to everybody for the ideas. I still dunno what the hell I’m going to do. But you’un’s thoughts are helpful. Bob — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I came home tonight and found that ‘resident’ had been sent an AOL CD. Nicely packaged in a thin metal container. YeeHaw. I’ve got a place other than my hat to keep those tiny flies now. I grabbed a magnet off the ‘frig and found out it’ll work just fine. The CD, of course, was immediately introduced to Ms Trash Can, where it’s resting happily and awaiting its fate. — rbc: vixen Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Wait for a second one, put a spindle through them both, and a small bolt or similar on the rim of one, put this in a simple stand, and you have an excellent linewinder. You can make a nice tool stand for fly-tying tools etc, in a similar way. Just drill holes around the rim, and mount the disc on a heavy bolt or similar. Depending on the reflective material used, they also make excellent lamp reflectors. They should not be mounted too close to heat sources though. If you buy a cheap electric clock motor, mount it behind the disk, and then mount the hands, then you have a nice wall clock. Cutting notches around the rim of the disc, turns it into a very handy cast holder. These were very popular at one time. If you glue a raised rim to the disc, and partition the disc with further strips ( like an apple tart decoration with pastry) of strip cork for instance, then you have a very handy stackable hook store. There are lots of other uses for such high grade plastic discs. If AOL and others want to give them away, then I see no reason not to use them. TL MC

Response:

Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a great belt system keep a tight line

I have the LL Bean large chest pack with cargo strap, and I can carry more stuff than I could in my shorty vest, and everything is better organized and easier to find. Also, the weight is more evenly distributed. I also got the mesh strap for hot weather. I have tried using the pack with the included belt as a fanny or hip pack, but it just doesn’t feel right for some reason. I really like it as a chest pack, though. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

What’s the vote of the lodge as to chest packs, vests, etc? I’m looking at Filson because they use snaps instead of velcro, which I’ve found to be really awkward to handle one-handed. The main thing I want is to be able to carry my lunch/beverage/rain gear, etc., along with a big supply of tackle because I use the vest to store most of my gear (not that I have all that much to store, but I hate sorting it out before trips). Bob Patton

Bob, I used the same vest for many years, a Stearns inflatable model. Because of the heavy cloth and the enclosed rubber bladders, it was very hot in the summer. I bought a "Fishpond" ($60.00) chest pack/hip pack a couple of years ago. You can wear it either way. I needed to use the neck strap as I am "hip challenged" and I couldn’t keep the thing from sliding down to my knees. The pack works pretty well but when fully loaded, sticks out quite a ways. I used it mainly as a hip pack but used the shoulder strap to keep it from sliding down. I didn’t like using it as a chest pack. Just always seemed to be in the way. On my way back home from the Yellowstone clave, I treated myself to a Simms mesh vest ($100.00). I like this vest better than the chest pack. The weight is spread out very comfortably across the shoulders and holds everything I need. It’s cut short for deep wading and seems to be the best compromise for me. I needed to remove the chest pack when I rowed my pontoon and there’s always a chance it will end up floating down the river. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Check out the 2002 fly fishing cataloge from LL Bean they have some very nice roomy sized fanny packs for about$ 49.00 they hold lots of gear and have a

Response:

Thanks for the info. The only trouble with the Filson is that it’s so expensive it needs a special section in my will! Bob

I used to use a Filson vest that I bought because I love those old school Filson products; however, it was way to heavy and the snaps tended to stick shut in the cold….one cold day in Yellowstone park, I couldn’t open the snap on one of the pockets and ripped the pocket trying. Same day I bought my Simms vest in West and haven’t used the Filson since. Eugene K.

Response:

I just received a "FlyTrap" that I bought from ezflyfish.com. Looks like it will beat the hell out of fleece and styrofoam patches. Bob

//snip// pens, disks, etc. Works great for all my paraphernalia – just clipped a zinger and a drying patch on it and I was in business. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at

http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

To All

admin — Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

It is now the a.m. where in I can actually recognize the keyboard as a keyboard, not a checkers board. The FBI has left my door and life is getting back to normal (who knew that using a keyboard as a checker board would hit the right url and password to deploy the black helicopters to Stewart, Iowa?). I want to wish you all a happy New Year. This has been a tremendous year of growth in my fly fishing skill, due in no small part to ROFFians. The Pirate’s School of Fishing With Floaty Pieces of Yarn, followed by Mike Makela’s School of Stare at the Water and Will the Fish onto your Hook (Zen subdivision) taught me nymphing. Petah and the Pirate, after watching me go fishless all day, telling me I’ve got too much bow in my line (‘cudda said something earlier). Wayno threatening to beat me silly if I flexed my wrist on my back cast. Tony Norton getting me out on skinny water so I could learn stealth. Did I fish as much as I wanted to this year? No. Did I more than make up for it with new friends that accept me as me? Yes. Folks who open their homes like Dave and Jo, Wayne and Dianna. Guys who haul me from spot to spot like Stan, and the whole Boston Massacre II Clave crew. Not one had ever met me, but you all came out to fish with me. To Penns and Rappahannock crew and to all of you I’ve yet to fish with, to those who put in the wonderful TR’s and advice, even to those who’ve added a bit of controversy the group, I wish you all the best in the coming year. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Frank, the pleasure was all mine. I enjoyed your company and fishing with you. I have named that pool on the Penns "The Frank Pool". And, Jo and I are enjoying the quilt. Best Wishes for a safe and wonderful New Year to you and yours, Frank. Hope to see you at Penns. Dave

Response:

I’ll echo those comments – see you at Penns, beside the Frank Pool. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Almost off topic….was Hooks On Planes

admin — Sat, 22 Dec 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them.

Even better. These are high tech stainless hooks, so they aren’t dissolved by stomach acids. All the mule has to do is swallow them, then get I was in with you on this one RW, but maybe we ought to think it a little more. Charlie, at least I hope they’re barbless

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

Response:

I take that back, I bet the right marketer could have offices in every major airport within two years…..who wants to hear my idea? john

fire away, I’m on pins and needles . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…..who wants to hear my idea?

Shoot.

Response:

we’re waiting Handyman Mike

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity.

Let me guess. You’re going to hire "mules" to smuggle hooks on airplanes. I suppose they’ll have to swallow them. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

In these trying times, when there has to be just one more way to make yet another dollar, I sense a marketing opportunity. Somewhere along the line of two or three hundred dollars and flight….for the airlines. Anybody in here close enough to that industry to let me bend their ear a bit? I mean this marvelous idea came from discussing fly fishing, so this post is only kinda sorta off topic. There is no profit or gain for you or I. I just have a question. john

Response:

Little help with casting technique?

admin — Tue, 04 Sep 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique. When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward. Is this normal? I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip. The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait. The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys. Any thoughts?

Yes; what everybody else told you and this. To get distance on the forward cast, you need to load the rod properly. When your back cast straightens behind you (no big loops), start the forward cast a bit more slowly until the rod begins to load from the weight of the line, THEN apply all that power you’re using. Don’t give it the full magilla all at once. It should be a gradual acceleration, not a sharp increase to full power. Joe F.

Response:

Well, first, quit stuffing your fly – it’ll make the girls (or the boys, depending on your personal choices) think you silly – and that way, you’ll not jerk it out. Hmm…that reminds me of Blazing Saddles – "pardon me while I whip this out…," and speaking of whipping…. …yup, "cracking the whip" is timing. Turn your head and look over your shoulder at the fly – and for Pete’s (or really, the Canadian of your choice) sake, don’t use full-hook flies to practice – try using bright, puffy whiffs – and try beginning your forward cast when the fly begins to start into the loop’s roll. I suspect your particular distance thing is timing-related, as well, due to timing because of

Response:

…. load…

Well, you’re a lovely couple and I think you should get married. Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

Response:

…. load…

LOL. In keeping with the oft-dispensed advice, I thought long and hard before hitting the send key on that one. Thought I could slip it benignly past if I omitted all controversial adverbs. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load…

Why would I wanna marry a duck, via whatever means…oh, you just want the film rights so you can sell the tape….on eBay…. TC, R fearing the ductile nature of threads…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wolfgang somewhere in the viaduct

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Via duck, vie not a turkey or a chicken? Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …. load…

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No It’s really hard to fix your problem by suggesting possible solution with words alone. You may want to rent a casting video from a local fly fishing shop. If the line droops when you do try to let it completely unroll on the backcast, try aiming your backcast a little bit up and to the back and not just to the back. HTH. Mu

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Eric: Something that helped me alot was waiting until I felt the rod "load up" on my back stroke. I also notice this is easier to feel with a "slower" rod. Just a thought. M. Wm.

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Casting next to big picture windows….the solar tinted kind that act like mirrors…can aid in watching how your line behaves while it’s behinds you. I’m just a not very sensitive guy. It seems like my hands take forever to learn something….I mean you should have seen the hook and weight contraption I had to build just to learn how to tie bloodknots. Having acces to one of these type of windows helped me learn to cast (not that I can). Being able to see when I was supposed to be feeling my line assisted me in actually learning to feel it. john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m relatively new to fly casting and have a question regarding casting technique. When I transition from backcast to forecast I often hear the fly and line cracking (poping really) like a whip when the fly reverses direction to go forward. Is this normal? I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip. The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait. The problem with not waiting, I seem to be jerking the stuffing out of my flys. Any thoughts? Regards, Eric

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…. load…

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If the fly "cracks" when you commence your forward cast, this is a result of it breaking the sound barrier when it "goes around the bend". This will shred most flies very quickly indeed, if it does not break them off to start with. This is caused by you reversing direction, and applying forward motion to the fly, while it is still travelling backwards. The fault is indeed caused by starting the forward stroke too soon. This is often compounded by allowing the rod to "drift" too far back, or indeed a power stroke which is too long. Too much power is also a cause of this fault. The remedy is to apply less power, stop your backast a little earlier, and wait for the line to straighten before commencing the forward stroke. Concentrate on throwing your backcast "up", instead of "back", and the fault will probably disappear. Watching your back-cast will help here. When the line is straight out behind you, commence the forward stroke. When casting heavy flies, or greater distances, a "single haul" may be of considerable assistance. This is a pull on the line with the "line" hand, at the start of the forward stroke. TL MC

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It means MAXIMUM POWER!!! I suspect that I’m not letting the line straighten behind me before casting forward; therefore, it’s just like cracking a whip. The problem with waiting though seems to be that the line doesn’t travel forward as far if I wait.

Just kidding. It’s bad. You definitely need to wait. Stick with it – maybe take a lesson – you will definitely be able to generate line speed other ways. You’re not trying to cast like 80 feet, are you?

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It sounds like your analysis is correct. This is not normal and you should try and let the line straighten out behind you. Perhaps you can add a little haul on the forward cast to get more distance if it is a problem. I haven’t seen you cast and I am not a "casting coach," other than to some of my friends I am trying to teach, so take my advice for what it is worth. You get what you pay for and all that. . . Perhaps some of the better casters will chime in with their opinions. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/