Question:

Any opinions on what will be hatching this Thursday, with 90 degree weather last week, snow today, and low water?   On the river I’ll be fishing, on 4/25 I would expect the end of the Quill Gordons, some Blue Quills, the beginning of the Hendricksons, maybe some Shad Fly caddis.  But, with the odd weather, heaven knows what’s happening and I’d appreciate some opinions, founded in current observation or not. Thanks in advance. Glenn GKT

Response:

Any opinions on what will be hatching this Thursday, with 90 degree weather last week, snow today, and low water?   On the river I’ll be fishing, on 4/25 I would expect the end of the Quill Gordons, some Blue Quills, the beginning of the Hendricksons, maybe some Shad Fly caddis.  But, with the odd weather, heaven knows what’s happening and I’d appreciate some opinions, founded in current observation or not.

How are the water temps compared to what they would normally be?  IMO, that is a very important, if not THE most important, part of the "equation." — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

I think you’re right but I won’t know the exact temperature for that stream until I get there.  They are probably near normal now, most likely following a small spike during the four hot days. GlennHow are the water temps compared to what they would normally be?  IMO, that is a very important, if not THE most important, part of the "equation." — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

GKT

Response:

I think you’re right but I won’t know the exact temperature for that stream until I get there.  They are probably near normal now, most likely following a small spike during the four hot days.

Sometimes you can get water temps from the USGS Streamflow reports.  Look around http://mt.waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/help/?redirect=rt_www_redirect — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

Response:

what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

Response:

what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

Response:

Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

Response:

Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

Response:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

Response:

Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

Response:

Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

Response:

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

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Question:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly.  I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

Response:

I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.

Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

The big ugly pink building building 3/4 mile down university ave.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river. Your "office" is really that gas station across from the old power plant, right? –Steve

Response:

Prospecting For Trout (Rosenbauer) for overall strategy.  Nymph Fishing (Hughes) good starter book for nymph fishing (is that what you mean by wet?)

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the process of trying to learn how to fly fish.  I live in Utah, and my office is at the mouth of Provo canyon, and only 4 1/2 minutes away from some really good lunch time fishing spots, on the Provo river.  Last summer I bought a rod and real, and a coworker of mine taught me to roll cast, and explained to me the concept of fishing with dry fly’s.  this winter I read "Fly fishing for the complete idiot: a no-nonsense guide to fly casting" by Michael Rutter, and have been practicing casting on my lawn.  I am ok with casting now (or will be with more practice), and I understand what to do with dry fly’s, but I am clue less on how to setup and present a wet fly. I am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry

flys.

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now. Hint: if Buffalo has more than one used book store, check the ones closest to the liquor stores. And thats only assuming Buffalo doesn’t have any brothels that take used books in trade.

  Yeah, that’s a pretty good book.  But, I still have it.  No book stores or brothels in Buffalo and I buy my beer out of state ($7.00/case last time I went back to Lexington, NE.  I bought 5 cases)   Peggy says we need to get your books and rod back to you.  I think she really means she wants to go to Denver to see our daughter and Peggy’s sister and do some shopping.  I will bring fine cigars for rent on the books. Snoop —

Response:

    My favorite "how to" book is Borger’s Presentation. I loaned mine to Bob Skinner last year, so it’s probably for sale in some Buffalo WY used book store by now.

Yes, good one  I think it’s a good book too.  Also, one that can be left on the coffee table without your SO griping about it.

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I just returned "Presenting  the Fly" by Lefty Kreh to the library.  Very good book, published in 1999.  He covers more that trout in it and it has some good tips on gear.  It’s around $40 so when I need it again it’s back to the library for me or just read it at B&N.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -am looking for a recommendation on a book that will go into more detail on setting my line up for a wet fly,and presentation of both wet and dry flys. Jim Ferry Orem, Utah

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Question:

A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:         http://www.nadertrader.org         http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ <

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Hey Jaxfly. Now, now.. relax.. it’s almost over.  Just keep repeating, it’s almost over. Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill, and not read the political postings? now then, back to your regularly scheduled political ad….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help: http://www.nadertrader.org http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ < Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Joel, a fellow Illini, includes rw’s whole damn post, then bitches: A lot of people want to vote for Nader … Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing.

— Ken Fortenberry- vote for Nader willya, Joel, won’t matter, Illinois is solid Gore.

Response:

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing.

I take it you aren’t interested in trading a Gore vote for a Nader vote? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill,

Anyone who went fishing in the Northeast this weekend definitely chilled. Brrrrr! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on.

Here’s what the Nader people have to say about this From CNET: [That move drew criticism Saturday from Public Citizen, the umbrella group for consumer causes founded by Nader. It said the ads would mark "a new low" in the presidential campaign and "is designed to mislead voters." ] Interesting how the ultimate consumer/public advocate thinks this is something to mislead people.  I’ll borrow a favorite phrase of Al Gore’s and simply call it…"a risky scheme". Natty (one who knows a vast LEFT wing conspiracy when he sees one) Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:    http://www.nadertrader.org    http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on.

Why? The greasy weasels in the RNC are running *pro Nader* ads in many of the swing states – kinda puts them in a bind if they try to make any noise about trading votes… /daytripper

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help:       http://www.nadertrader.org       http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. Here’s what the Nader people have to say about this From CNET: [That move drew criticism Saturday from Public Citizen, the umbrella group for consumer causes founded by Nader. It said the ads would mark "a new low" in the presidential campaign and "is designed to mislead voters." ] Interesting how the ultimate consumer/public advocate thinks this is something to mislead people.  I’ll borrow a favorite phrase of Al Gore’s and simply call it…"a risky scheme".

I’m afraid you’re wrong about this, Hawkeye. The criticism from Public Citizen was directed at the Bush campaign for using footage of Nader attacking Gore in their ads, in an obvious attempt to swing Gore support to Nader. I think this is actually a pretty low-down trick, but it’s probably legal. It may backfire. The websites I posted are actually being created and promoted by pro-Nader people (who don’t want Bush to win). I don’t know what the Nader ccampaign’s official position is. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Instead of bitching, perhaps you might go fishing for a while, chill, Anyone who went fishing in the Northeast this weekend definitely chilled. Brrrrr! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

I had to clean the snow off my truck before I went to the store!                                  Mike

Response:

This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. Why? The greasy weasels in the RNC are running *pro Nader* ads in many of the swing states – kinda puts them in a bind if they try to make any noise about trading votes…

C’mon, Tripper. Get real. Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

____  I smoked the fish but I didn’t inhale. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

I’m afraid you’re wrong about this, Hawkeye. The criticism from Public Citizen was directed at the Bush campaign for using footage of Nader attacking Gore in their ads, in an obvious attempt to swing Gore support to Nader. I think this is actually a pretty low-down trick, but it’s probably legal. It may backfire. The websites I posted are actually being created and promoted by pro-Nader people (who don’t want Bush to win). I don’t know what the Nader ccampaign’s official position is.

When I’m wrong, I admit it…I’m wrong and you are right RW.  Shame on me for employing a "speed read" on the cnet article.  After giving it a second read I see the reference to the Bush /Nader ads. I agree it is a strategy that could very well backfire on GW.  As for it’s legality, I would think the vote swapping thing, if it’s highly organized would have a much better chance at raising some legal eyebrows than simply running ads for another candidate. I really can’t wait until this election is over.  Between fuzzy math, Tammy Fae Baker makeup, ice-tea drinking at Budhist temples, the whole American political process is a freak show.  Besides, I’m a man without a candidate. Natty (looking to pull the lever for the Libertarian candidate….for once) Before you buy.

Response:

Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. Joel Axelrad

Good idea Joel. You start. Haven’t seen any posts from you lately, fishing or otherwise. Willi

Response:

Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something?

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.  Bill Clinton said "I pledge to run the most ethical administration in this nations history"….well, I don’t think I have to expand on that one.  And of course, Bill didn’t inhale which makes him either really stupid or just a liar….you decide. My point is that they are all hypocrits.  If you’re lucky enough to identify with one or two key issues shared with a candidate then cast your vote and hope they don’t pull a fast one on you. For me, I could never vote for Gore, a man who thinks the answer to any issue is a government program or handout.  A man who would re-write the 2nd amendment to read "..the right of the people to keep and bear a hunting rifle as long as said rifle is single shot, non-scoped, government approved and stored at the local law enforcement agency".  No, I don’t believe what dems try to spin to us….that republicans want to poison the air and water, throw our seniors into the streets and starve all the schoolchildren. It’s fuzzy politics (a little GW lingo there). Am I crazy about GW?  No way.  But if I had to choose between Al Gore and GW, I’ll take GW.  I recall a speech given by a democrat who said "…ask not what your country can do for you….". I think the democratic party has gotten away from where he was trying to take it. Just my .02 and I can almost feel the flames coming already. Natty (enjoying my access to the Al Gore created internet) Before you buy.

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\ Why don’t you fucking people stop the fucking election bull shit, left or right, and get back to fly fishing. \

Because trout are more sensitive to environmental changes than bullhead or carp are. -Muskie

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 If in doubt, vote for the brighter man. That would be Al Gore. -Muskie

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Since when has hypocrisy prevented the Republicans from complaining about something? Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  

Hypocrisy is endemic to politics. I have no doubt that Democratic politicians are often guilty of hypocrisy. The thing is, though, that the Republicans have raised it to an art form in recent years. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.

<balanced snipped for brevity Excellent post, Natty…..My feelings exactly. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A lot of people want to vote for Nader and help the Green Party, but they don’t want Bush to win. It’s possible that votes for Nader in swing states will throw the election to Bush. There are two websites that help: http://www.nadertrader.org http://www.voteswap2000.com The idea is that a Gore supporter will vote for Nader in a state that is safe for Bush (like Texas) if a Nader supporter will vote for Gore in a swing state. That way, the Green Party gets the same popular vote, but Bush (it is hoped) is denied a victory. This is going to get very interesting. I’ll bet the Bush campaign is going to go ballistic over this if it catches on. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Is not bartering a form of sale? Is it not illegal to sell your vote? Besides I expect all those dead people in Miami to vote again like in 62. I expect if GW wins, the lights in Washington will dim from the overload caused by massive paper shredder use.

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Is not bartering a form of sale? Is it not illegal to sell your vote?

There’s no barter involved. No one is selling a vote. It’s purely voluntary arrangement, based on trust, — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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 The thing is, though, that the Republicans have raised it to an art form in recent years. —

 Well hell yes ,why not ? they’ve had Bill Clinton to study and learn from for eight years. Bob-reluctantly Republican Before you buy.

Response:

Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business.

How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living. Things are different now. There are plenty of examples of hypocrisy on both sides but this is not one of them. Peter G. Aitken

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How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living.

The Surgeon General’s report on the dangers of smoking was released in 1964. Gore would have been in his teens. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seems to me the dems are guilty of some hypocrisy as well.  Al Gore goes campaigning in the south talking about how he grew and harvested tobacco, then gets on the bandwagon to put the tobacco companies out of business. How is that hypocrisy? When Gore was young the dangers of tobacco were not known and growing tobacco was a perfectly honorable way to make a living. Things are different now. There are plenty of examples of hypocrisy on both sides but this is not one of them. Peter G. Aitken

Gore was bragging to tobacco farmers in his home state when he was running for office that he " planted it, weeded it, picked it, cured it and sold it just like the rest of ya ", while at the same time his own sister was dying from smoking related cancer. Of coures after his sister died he saw a GREAT opportunity to use her death for political gain so after he was safely elected to the senate and running for president (1988) he gave his " sitting at my sisters death bed I vowed to fight against the tobacco industry with ever fiber of my being " speech. Just a few VERY SHORT years after his " I’m a PROUD tobacco farmer". Of course when he was running for office in Tennessee he was pro life, pro gun and pro tobacco. That’s what he needed to be to get elected. When he began running for the White House he became what he thought he needed to be to win, pro abortion, anti gun and anti tobacco. The guy is a bigger snake than Bill Clinton ever dreamed of being. I don’t know what kind of president G.W.B will make, you never know till they actually land the job. But I do know what kind of pres. Gore would be and I don’t want four years of him in the White House. Clintons main concern was his dick and looking for a legacy. Gore is a "crusader" with alot of bad ideas. He scares me "big time". Bob Before you buy.

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Question:

Enjoyed your report, I was up that way a couple of weeks ago and went to Steep Banks. 12 guys standing around casting into one small pool, it might be famous but it did not interest me. Waded on up the river but had no luck except in a couple of small pools.  ;The word was that the fish would be in the river in a couple of weeks, but I could not wait  so moved over to Upper Dam and caught a couple of 15inch salmon and three trout close in but was not interested in standing out in the flow for three hours in one spot to catch a fish.  The one thing I have to say was that the whole area was dead drop beautiful  but guess I still prefer the mountains of North Carolina , climbing over the rocks to catch a 8inch trout.     Indian Joe Wilmington N.C.

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Great report, Allen.  Too bad you could not make it to the Rapid.  I am heading up to the East Branch of the Kennebec this week with a couple of friends.  And, yes, I’m bringing warm clothes. Dave L.

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Dave and Injun, The whole trip really cemented in my mind where my wife and I will end up living in a few years. Hope youu don’t mind sharing the fish and birds! Allen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great report, Allen.  Too bad you could not make it to the Rapid.  I am heading up to the East Branch of the Kennebec this week with a couple of friends.  And, yes, I’m bringing warm clothes. Dave L.

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Folks, Work has been keeping me from even lurking the last few weeks but SWMBO and I have just returned from a trip north to RI for her folks 50th anniversary and then up to Rangeley ME for a week to help a friend winter prep his camp and wet a line for a bit. I’ve never been up that way before but from all the folks I talked to the water was way low and the fishing slow. Our friends camp is "Fiddlehead" just below Bald Mtn on Rangeley lake but ended up fishing the Kennebunk pretty far down. "Steep Bank" came highly recommended but "take a number" fishing is not my bag anymore. We hiked up the stream a bit and despite having spent a lot of time in the woods it’s pretty easy to see how folks become lost in the Maine woods. Thick does not begin to describe it and had to restart the heart once due to flushing Grouse. Upstream was shallow and no real cover so back down to what we found later was called "Trout Rock" Gorgeous little pool with a steep rock pile on one side and about 6′ deep. Started by casting #10 Black Ghost (might as well start local). Ended up going up and down a bit and finally settled on a #16 Brassie. That turned out to surprisingly be the ticket. 4 nice Brookies all about 12-14 inches. Such gorgeous fish my hands trembled releasing them. Finally a Salmon showed some interest. The barest tap and I was on to a 19" fish that explored all corners of the pool before coming to net. Again, I was awed by the colors and spirit of the fish. My wife and I got up early the next morning and headed to the the stream running from the Little Kennebago. Bright day but cold (28 F) and no wind. If you didn’t see the ice forming in your guides you wouldn’t have noticed the cold. A couple strikes but no fish did see a beaver and had to come to a complete stop on the way home to let a brace of Grouse get out of the road. Just before we joined rt. 16 again had a cow Moose stop right along side the road and stare as we stopped to take her picture. This was the first time my wife has fly fished and I think she got the picture that’s its not just the fish. Sorry for the general disjointness of this report but as we just got home I thought I’d drop in and try and break up the politics Before I lost the mental pictures I brought home. With work being all consuming at times we have to stop and spend time afield with rod or gun to put things in perspective. Allen Epps Catonsville MD

  gaepps.vcf

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Question:

Group, My wife has finally, I think, gotten tired of me planning our family camping vacations around a fly fishing destination (last year it was Manzanita Lake and Hat Creek, not to mention our obligatory trips to the Owens Valley/Mammoth area). She  has planned a trip to Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon area. Other than Lees Ferry, can someone offer suggestions on where to fish. I’m inclined to seek out small creeks and quiet lakes as opposed to some nationally recognized mecca. We’ll be there the first week of August. Any suggestions would be most welcome. I haven’t been through this area since I was about 8, so I’m looking forward to showing it to my kids…but I would like to fish even just a wee bit. Campground suggestions would be great too. Roger

Response:

We just got back last week from a trip to the same area.  We didn’t stay in the park when we went to Bryce, but at a campground in the national forest about 25 minutes drive to the park entrance.  The campground was at Tropic resevoir, 7 miles up a dirt road off the highway.  I didn’t take any fishing equipment with me but there were a lot people there fishing and the sight of many trout rising in the late evening (inlet side of the lake and the inlet creek) did make me wish I had my fly rod. We camped on the North Rim of the Grand, the campground was nice but reservations are required.  I didn’t see anywhere to fish near here.  At Zion we also camped in the park, reservations recomended.  The campground is on the Virgin river.  I didn’t see any fish rising or anyone fishing so I am afraid I dont’ know.  I would mention the temperatures while we were there June 6 – June 15.  Bryce (alt. < 8000 feet at Tropic res.); highs were mid 60’s, lows mid 30s (it snowed on the 5th).  Grand Canyon (alt 7800) highs mid 70, lows upper 40s.  Zion (alt 4000) high 103, low upper 60’s.  I think a warm front moved in between the Grand the Zion, but August should be warmer. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Group, << snip She  has planned a trip to Bryce, Zion, Grand Canyon area. Other than Lees Ferry, can someone offer suggestions on where to fish. I’m inclined to seek out small creeks and quiet lakes as opposed to some nationally recognized mecca. << snip Campground suggestions would be great too. Roger

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Joe, I’m starting to think I may not bring the gear at all, since it looks like we won’t get down to Lee’s Ferry. This looks like it’s shaping up to be a "family" trip with few opportunities for fishing. How was the campground at Tropic Reservoir? I’m looking for an alternative to overcrowed NP campgrounds in the park, and those private monstrosities that feature swimming pools, arcades, snack shops etc. The kids are voting for the latter, but that ain’t camping to me. Problem is the wife insists on Showers. Which campground did you use in Zion? Thanks for your help Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We just got back last week from a trip to the same area.  We didn’t stay in the park when we went to Bryce, but at a campground in the national forest about 25 minutes drive to the park entrance.  The campground was at Tropic resevoir, 7 miles up a dirt road off the highway.  I didn’t take any fishing equipment with me but there were a lot people there fishing and the sight of many trout rising in the late evening (inlet side of the lake and the inlet creek) did make me wish I had my fly rod. We camped on the North Rim of the Grand, the campground was nice but reservations are required.  I didn’t see anywhere to fish near here.  At Zion we also camped in the park, reservations recomended.  The campground is on the Virgin river.  I didn’t see any fish rising or anyone fishing so I am afraid I dont’ know.  I would mention the temperatures while we were there June 6 – June 15.  Bryce (alt. < 8000 feet at Tropic res.); highs were mid 60’s, lows mid 30s (it snowed on the 5th).  Grand Canyon (alt 7800) highs mid 70, lows upper 40s.  Zion (alt 4000) high 103, low upper 60’s.  I think a warm front moved in between the Grand the Zion, but August should be warmer. Joe

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Question:

Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Hi, You can catch bones on the north end of Cozumel any time of the year. There are lots of guides on the island. I have not heard of anyone driving there yet as the roads don’t go there. Get a guide for a half day trip in the morning as that is the best fishing anyway. If you shop around you might get a guide for $150/half-day. I was out on Isla Mujeres, but didn’t see any flats. I don’t know about any guides there, but it has a big lagoon. We have been fishing a great lagoon system about an hour north of Cancun with schools of small tarpon from 5 to 30 pounds in clear shallow water. Guides can pick you up at 5am at your hotel in Cancun and take you out for the day. Call Fred at Rod & Reel Adventures to book any of these guides. 800/356-6982 Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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Hi I was wondering if any person knows any flats in Cozumel for bones done on a budget?? Also if Isla Mujeres has any wadable flats nearby? Thanks alot Sam I am

Response:

There are three areas at the north end of Cozumel Island. There are lots of bonefish, although not trophy size. At least I haven’t caught one. They are large enough to make your reel sing and make you wonder if you have enough backing. I have heard that you can drive there but I don’t know for sure. I don’t have the name of the guide I use. You can ask around at the marina.

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Question:

Hi can anyone help me with some  locations to flyfish in the Tahoe area.  I know there is alot of water and theres got to be a  few hot fly fishing spots. What flies? Fly shops? any thing else that might be helpful? float tubes on the lake? Thanks Great White Thanks for all thoughs who replied to my northerns and tigers questions landed me my first tiger 36"  17 pounds. "Got to quite wishin need to go fishin" Jimmy buffett

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Hi-    Unless you know the area very well, Lake Tahoe is a poor flyfishing destination. South of the Lake is the East Carson River and flowing out of the lake on the North end is the Truckee River. These are the two premier rivers in the area. Currently the Carson is fishing well and the Truckee is blown out.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi can anyone help me with some  locations to flyfish in the Tahoe area.  I know there is alot of water and theres got to be a  few hot fly fishing spots. What flies? Fly shops? any thing else that might be helpful? float tubes on the lake? Thanks Great White Thanks for all thoughs who replied to my northerns and tigers questions landed me my first tiger 36"  17 pounds. "Got to quite wishin need to go fishin" Jimmy buffett

Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com

Response:

Ralph is right about the Tahoe area.  The only change is that the Truckee downstream from Tahoe should be improving shortly.  The flows were just decreased today and hopefully will be stable for a while. Also try the Little Truckee, along with the handfull of small creeks in the North Tahoe area.  Good luck. Dick

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Question:

 bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good  fishing spot.

You’ll have to travel more than an hour.  The nearest stream worth fishing is probably the South Branch of the Au Sable, about three hours north, near Roscommon.  I don’t remember what hatches would be proceeding then — standard midsummer stuff.

Response:

I will be in Auburn Hills, Michigan (near Pontiac, MI) on business from July 17 through July 22.  I would like to bring my fly rod with me and do some fishing.  Can someone out there give me some advice on what flys to bring and where to go.  I don’t mind traveling an hour to get to a good fishing spot.

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Question:

The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Just 2 cents that I was given and am passing along. Dave

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Wearing a FF vest one size larger also allows you to add extra layers of clothing underneath in cold weather.

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: : The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the : advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way : the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Or, in my case, put on a bit of poundage over the years.  Time to get on that damn Nordic Trac. — Tom

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: : The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the : advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way : the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Or, in my case, put on a bit of poundage over the years.  Time to get on that damn Nordic Trac.

But then again, a Wood River bag fits over anything _and_ provides a work surface for openning fly boxes, tying leaders or dressing a fly.   Bags also offer the advantage of helping avoid looking like everyone else. Pete

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