Question:

It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

And a Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice and all that to you and all the ROFFians, too. —   rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing. Often taunted by trout. Very slow on replying to email. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

It’s Christmas time again….. Therefore, here is my Christmas greeting card for you, as you will find at the following address since posting binaries to non-binary newsgroups isn’t allowed: http://home.online.no/~stigbye/christmas_cards/rec_outdoors_fishing_f… Cheers, Stig Arne Bye

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Question:

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly. This topic in itself is a waste. tmc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja. Exactly my point earlier.  It probably takes 10 cents to download all the topics/headers on RBC in a week.  Disconnect, and sort through what you want to read, mark them to download, then repsond accordingly.

My my, you are are free with other people’

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? "they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, …

    No one does.  That was my point. …but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize.

    You have no idea what I "probably realize" — you’re guessing based on two sentences — and even if you were correct, it really doesn’t do anything to make the point, since the original "most people…" statement is dubious.  But please, go on. At least among long-time and frequent contributors.

    Care to qualify it any further? Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP..

    You cracked the code!

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup? does it matter?

    Well if, for example, one fifth of one percent of the people in the conversation have a particular problem, how worked up should we expect the group to get about it?     As for people in other newsgroups with similar problems, my favorite was the guy on AOL who waged an endless argument about cross-posting. Apparently his wiz-bang software required him to download entire articles before he could see headers (or so he claimed,) and thereby be able to filter things out.  Thus he wanted people to stop posting about various topics on various groups because it was costing him too much money to download stuff he didn’t want to read.  I think he enjoyed arguing about it.

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American.

Wow. Get your hand off the trigger. Being considerate of people in the world that exists (really it does) outside the US is hardly being anti-American. I realize its very UN-American, but thats another story. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

Why? What does it matter? Does Rico get to decide that if its less than x percent then screw them? This is really going to come as a surprise to some people, all of them Americans. There are..gasp…you dont say!!….actually places in America where people have to pay for access time! There are also people who, for various reasons, dont have good connections or fast connections AND have to pay for  access too!

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Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there?

You often pay about 1 to 3 cent per minute in Germany. There are not many flat rate providers, especially in smaller cities. Ilja.

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

If one leaves because of the cost of downloading back country topics, then you are better off backpacking than reading the usenet.  One certainly can’t afford that new goretex jacket. Lets be serious here.  If you can’t afford a few dollars to read some interersting topics (some more or less), then you have no reason to be backpacking.  Think about it!  Backpacking is NOT the least expensive hobby/sport.  Perhaps one needs to obtain a new hobby to make one happy. Unless you hike in blue jeans and a cotton shirt, the don’t be squaking. Oh yeah, if you aren’t smart enough to download the headers and topics, instead of full messages, then it is the law of Darwin. Geesh! tmc

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

Mike Connor is living in Germany and is a very computer savvy individual. I find it hard to believe that he would chose a crummy ISP if there was a better one available. Are there any other Germans out there who are familiar with the internet system there? Geo.Cleveland

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.    Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.     And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

does it matter?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

it’s evidently an  issue for some that comes up regularly in some other ng’s I subscribe to that have  posters from all over the place.( trim posts etc) Of course I have no hard evidence  ;-p penny

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don’t be so Ameri-centric.

   Don’t be so knee-jerk anti-American. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

    And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

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Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. And they constitute what proportion of this newsgroup?

"they" meaning people who pay by the minute or "they" meaning people outside the US? I have no idea about the first, but there are more non-US posters here than you probably realize. At least among long-time and frequent contributors. Not that its any excuse for a lousy ISP.. John Paul Minda Beckman Institute The University of Illinois 405 N. Mathews Ave. Urbana, IL 61801 (217) 333-2012 http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~minda

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.

    I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

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…it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days.

don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time. penny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. …online time is expensive. …There are doubtless others who have left, and will leave, for the same reasons.     I believe that the limitations imposed on you by your crummy ISP support is rather unusual these days. don’t be so Ameri-centric. Most people outside the US have to pay by the minute for download time.

Is this still true? Here in the UK you don’t if you have the right ISP and the right package.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai. He has a gorgeous blonde girlfriend(ive never seen so many stares in my direction thanks to walking with her on several occasions), a nice ride and an even nicer selection of fly rods. Perhaps you are jealous of that? He is a positive, hopeful person  and people seem to gravitate to him. He, like I also have the glorious choices of fishing in a still unspoiled setting, which is something you don’t have Mike. Perhaps if someone in Europe had spoken up and made noise a long time ago the fishing and habitat wouldnt be so poor now, and the choices so few.

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Musty Ass has spoken.

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\More like a ten year old, with no friends, and a ghetto blaster.\  I have had the pleasure of fishing with Muskie on several occasions, twice on the San Juan and once on the Kootenai.

I could not care less about his girlfriend or his fly-rods. The only thing I care about, is the fact that he costs me money with his constant Usenet abuse. The problem is solved for me at least. I have unsubscribed from rec.outdoors.fishing.fly  as it is simply too expensive to download all the rubbish. I will occasionally have a look in, using Google ( where I don

Question:

Ice, rest and some sort of anti-inflamatory for the pain.  As for why it is happening, well that is hard to say.  Try to change your cast up a bit.  Did it happen before you started to fish 4 days/week?  If so than you may need to take some time off.  I would suggest changing your cast, bring your arm in closer to your body and don’t try too hard for distance.  Anyway, if the problem persists you should really rest otherwise it will become a cronic issue!! Good Luck! Forrest Arakawa FlyFishingREVIEW.com http://www.flyfishingreview.com I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Docs usually prescribe anti-inflamatories but I don’t find they work that great and the upset stomach, constipation and weight gain isn’t worth it.

Weight gain?  Geez, Peter, how many of those were you eating?

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the upset stomach, constipation and weight gain

That’s just middle age<g. — Charlie…

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There is a band that you can put on your arm above the elbow that helps greatly for tendonitis.  Ask a pharmacist about where to find one.  The advice on ice and anti inflamatory is good, but the band also helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

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above or below the elbow?

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I’ve been wearing the this type of band for several years now, I wear it below the elbow.

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Adam, 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week – A gruelling routine to have to stick to. I have no idea how old you are or what kind of shape your in, but I would suggest getting a job. Happy fishing John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

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I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

Adam,  Rest, then seriously *change* your casting mechanics….somewhere in there you’re doing a lot of tightening up/muscleing.  After the rest…take it slow and easy…to RE-develop the casting stroke…I’ve done it..and if I can do it….I think anyone can…just takes a little thought BEFORE you start the pickup…and it needs to stay short & easy until you’ve gotten rid of the   uptight muscular memory….Breathe!…and use leverage …use your larger muscles more let your lower arm simply carry out the accuracy part.. ..sorry for the lonnng_winded sentence…read it again…and get the breathing happenning in between the run-on phrases;-);-) steve d.

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Years ago, after spending a lot of days casting shooting heads into the wind while up to my eyeballs in water and trying to turn over large flies for Winter Steelhead, I started developing elbow and shoulder problems.  I’m convinced that regardless of technique, after a certain amount of time, problems can develop…especially when casting distances with heavy lines for many hours at a time.  I fish with a friend who is a neurosurgeon.  He advised me that the only real cure was to spend less time fishing for Winter Steelhead.  I now keep plenty of painkillers in my vest and just keep fishing…in spite of his advice.  When the waters are too muddied to fish, then I rest.  I guess it’s all a matter of priorities.  Besides….if you don’t suffer a little and appease the fish gods, then you have no claim to the bigger fish <g Barry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam Adam,  Rest, then seriously *change* your casting mechanics….somewhere in there you’re doing a lot of tightening up/muscleing.  After the rest…take it slow and easy…to RE-develop the casting stroke…I’ve done it..and if I can do it….I think anyone can…just takes a little thought BEFORE you start the pickup…and it needs to stay short & easy until you’ve gotten rid of the uptight muscular memory….Breathe!…and use leverage …use your larger muscles more let your lower arm simply carry out the accuracy part.. ..sorry for the lonnng_winded sentence…read it again…and get the breathing happenning in between the run-on phrases;-);-) steve d.

Response:

Thanks for the advice.  Actually, I know that rest works, but I’m not going to stop fishing.  My problem is most likely due to stripping technique, as you alluded to.  Along these lines, your suggestion about using the rod tips is interesting.  However, I’d like to find out just what I am doing wrong and what is the best way to strip without over stressing the tendons (the cause of tennis elbow). Adam

I do a lot of streamer fishing and I’m a medical textbook when it comes to tendonitis (and lately arthritis) yet stripping doesn’t bother me and I believe it’s because the arm motion actually is mostly in the shoulder and in one plane.   You’re stripping down and to the side and placing stress on the elbow.  Then when it gets to the end of the motion (straight arm) you’re creating more stress in stopping. Try keeping your arm in an ‘L’ position and just pull straight back. It duplicates the normal arm swing as we walk, a very stress free motion. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

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Thanks for the advice.  Actually, I know that rest works, but I’m not going to stop fishing.  My problem is most likely due to stripping technique, as you alluded to.  Along these lines, your suggestion about using the rod tips is interesting.  However, I’d like to find out just what I am doing wrong and what is the best way to strip without over stressing the tendons (the cause of tennis elbow). Adam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Peter said, the best cure is rest. I am also prone to this problem. Try to reduce your power stripping and use the rod tip to impart action to the fly/streamer. The more you aggravate the elbow the slower the healing process. jim I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam Tendonitis.  Ultrasound and cortisone works great.  For home therapy, try an ice pack.  It’s an inflamation so rest and ice will help.  Docs usually prescribe anti-inflamatories but I don’t find they work that great and the upset stomach, constipation and weight gain isn’t worth it. Good luck Peter

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I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

Tendonitis.  Ultrasound and cortisone works great.  For home therapy, try an ice pack.  It’s an inflamation so rest and ice will help.  Docs usually prescribe anti-inflamatories but I don’t find they work that great and the upset stomach, constipation and weight gain isn’t worth it. Good luck Peter

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As long as you just doing this catch as catch can type of fishing, you are going to have these problems.  They’ll disappear when you can start putting some serious hours in. In the meantime, Ibuprofen works pretty good for sore muscles…you want to get up there in the 800 – 1000 mg range. Also, quit casting blinds until duck season comes in to relieve the unnecessary stress. Switching back and forth between left and right hand casting helps keep both sides of your brain balanced….works for me…….john

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Like Peter said, the best cure is rest. I am also prone to this problem. Try to reduce your power stripping and use the rod tip to impart action to the fly/streamer. The more you aggravate the elbow the slower the healing process. jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam Tendonitis.  Ultrasound and cortisone works great.  For home therapy, try an ice pack.  It’s an inflamation so rest and ice will help.  Docs usually prescribe anti-inflamatories but I don’t find they work that great and the upset stomach, constipation and weight gain isn’t worth it. Good luck Peter

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I do a lot of flyfishing.  Since April I’ve fished (a lot of blind casting for bass and pickerel) on average 4 hours/day, 4-5 days a week, and now I’ve got elbow (left) problems that feel just like tennis elbow.  I’m a right handed caster and strip with my left hand.  Any helpful suggestions are appreciated. Adam

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Question:

Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would  welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures.  Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.

Well that is very kind of you George and I am sure you mean it, and I thank you for saying it. I am sure that if we stuck to flyfishing we would have a great time. I am proud of the fact that you invited me. Unfortunately I do not think I would be able to accept an invitation at the moment, especially in the light of some of your recent posts. My views on some things are obviously diametrically opposed to some of yours, and I am very much afraid we would end up in a heated argument, having nothing whatever to do with flyfishing ,  to no good purpose.  I do not wish to be unfriendly or insulting to you, in fact  I respect many of your achievements, and I have tried hard to be friendly, notwithstanding a few run ins we had on earlier occasions, but feel I must state the case as I see it. It is not my place to censure you publicly, this is a free group and you have the right to say what you like, and I am sure you can get along very well without my presumptuous advice. I will presume to give you some anyway, which is meant sincerely from someone who is truly trying his best to be friendly and helpful. Please try and moderate your tone in your posts, and try and think a bit more before you jump in with both feet on any and all subjects.  You have succeeded in upsetting a great many people recently, some very badly,  to no good purpose, and this will only result in unfriendliness, insults etc being cast in your direction, and is also bad for the group as a whole. You obviously have a lot to offer this group, and it is a shame that you constantly undermine your own position with nonsensical ranting and ill-considered statements or insults to all and sundry. It sometimes looks as if you were purposely inflaming people and making enemies of them deliberately. You must know yourself that this is no good, either for your person or your business.  Please George, take a rest and look back at some of your posts in the cold light of day, and I am sure you will realise that this sort of thing does nobody any good. Of seventy posts you sent in a very short space of time at least half were denigrating and insulting to somebody.   If you screw up on something, OK, so what, we all do occasionally, but most of us accept this and attempt to rectify matters as soon as possible. Blustering away as if nothing had occurred is not the way to do this. I accept and respect the fact that you are angry about the wanton destruction of the wilderness, and many other things, and your genuine desire to rectify matters, so are many others on this group and elsewhere. The methods proposed and the  type of posting you have been using is not the way to advance. The same goes for insulting remarks about your competitors, involved political harangues, or jumping on somebody who advocates using some other product etc etc etc.  George believe me please, these are not the actions of a wise man. Maybe you are subjecting yourself to too much stress in all your various efforts to change the world and make it a better place. I can understand your passion in this, in fact I am certain many on this group feel similarly, allowing your unbridled passion free rein , is a very bad way of going about it however, and does not particularly enhance the clarity of your arguments, or your chances of success, and probably blinds you to reality to some extent, so that you strike out illogically at anything even remotely concerned with the subject, in a manner and tone which is guarateed to upset people. Quiet considered argumentation backed up by a good example is far more liable to be successful, and would result in mutual respect and greater friendliness on the part of all concerned. I thought very carefully indeed before posting this to the group, as opposed to just privately, as I do not on any account wish you to take this as an insult. I feel however somebody must say these things to you as directly as possible so that there is no possible chance of misunderstanding, and that there are people on the group who would also like to say them, but are for various reasons reluctant to do so, but would nevertheless like to see them said. George, please do me one more favour. Read this post carefully several times. Go away and think about it for a while, and then come back and read it again before you reply. Perhaps we may yet sit down one day in your den and tie a few flies or down a few grouses. I would like to think so. Whatever you may think or say George. I wish you well. Sincerely Mike Connor

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Are you related to Jimmy Connors? I was once flamed for misspelling his name.

No relation, and I dont play tennis, but I do have balls If I flamed everybody who spelled my name wrongly, my fingers would be smoking, and I would need a new keyboard twice a week. Tait  leins ! Maik Koner

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 Mike Conner is the kind of fly fishing gentleman that I would  welcome to have him set up his fly tying vise next to mine and spend several days together . . . musing and inventing and comparing signatures.  Mike Conner always has a chair waiting him in my den of fly fishing affairs. Mr. G.

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 Hell Wayno, where is the mouthpiece on a golf club ? Tight lines ! Mike Connor,  the ignorant

Wayne Harrison’s ass so bad, he will confess humbleness. —

Question:

I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use?

Hi Jared, The simple thing to do for this weekend would be to check with your local fly shop to see what info they have on the local river you plan to fish.  It’s in their best interest to help you be successfull so don’t hesitate to ask.  If they won’t give you the time of day, go to a different shop. The suggestions Donn gave you are the best for the long term though.  Learn the basic life-cycles of mayflies, caddisflies, stoneflies, and midges.  Learn to identify them.  Don’t need to know the particular species or latin name, but at least learn to tell the difference between mayflies and caddisflies, etc.  To start, ignore the latin names most books will give, though they may interest you later.   Remeber, the other spelling for entomolgy is "bugs".  Learn how to take a stream sample without destroying a lot of habitat.  What works can change from hour to hour let alone week to week and if you can identify what’s available you’ll do much better than "chuck it and chance it."  You’ll never learn it all, but you’ll have a great time trying.                                      good fishing,                                              Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Jared, That is a question that even 66 year old men ask.  This is what fly fishing is all about and what you spend a life time doing in this sport to try to figure out.  The fly can change from one moment to the next to the next and so on.  I can change right in front of you for several hundred different reasons. Do not get overwhelmed by this but just look at it as a challenge.  Do yourself a favor and try to do a couple of the following things and it will make you a much better fly fisher. First and foremost – learn the basics of entomology; this looks hard but really isn’t.  Get with another fisherman who understands the basics and have him explain it to you.  Pick up any of many primers on this to help you. Next – Check the streams you intend to fish for what type of insects you have and when they hatch and how they act. Next – Begin gathering those insects in specimen bottles and preserving them for future studies.  Hopefully in the not too distant future, you can begin tying flies and you will have a data base to begin to copy.  Pick up some isopropyl alcohol from Wal-Mart, K-Mart or any drug store; it is very inexpensive.  Put a solution of 90% alcohol and 10% water in the vial and then add your insect and cover. Put a sticker of some kind on it and put what it is and where you got it from.  If you want to begin a diary of all this, it will help you learn faster and give you tremendous abount of your own information that is better than anything you hear or read. Next – Always be observant for changes in anything in or around the river and what effect it has on the fish and insects.  Go with other fly fishers and ask questions.   Your brain is a many giga-byte hard drive and just begin to fill it with as many bite of information as you can.  You will never come close to getting them all and just never stop; it is a life long endeavor. This is not tuff stuff and as long as you enjoy it, it will be easy and fun and make you an experinced fly fisher at the same time. Donn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use? Thankyou Tight Lines, Jared Staskiel "In our family, there was no clear line between religion and                fly fishing"                     —Norman Maclean (1976)

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I am only 16 and just starting to flyfish. I plan to do some fly fishing on a local stream this weekend. What are the best kinds of fly’s to use? Thankyou Tight Lines, Jared Staskiel "In our family, there was no clear line between religion and                 fly fishing"                     —Norman Maclean (1976)

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Question:

it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.  I was about to wade over to the fly when a rainbow jumped up and neatly hooked himself. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  

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As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.

This past June, I fished Corbett Lake near Merritt, British Columbia.  The lake is stocked with two strains of rainbows.  One strain eats a lot of snails, and gets quite big, but fights without a lot of jumps.  The other strain, more insectivorous, is the wildest leaper, and strongest strain of trout I have ever caught.  At least a couple of times a day during my four day stay on the lake, I would witness trout, some up to 6-7 pounds leaping as much as THREE FEET out of the water to nail damsel flies.  One of these surface to air missles did its thing about five feet away from me while I was out in my float-tube.  Man do I ever wish I had a picture of that! Troy

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it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.

Isn’t what Irish style dapping* is all about ? —      ~adj~

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Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive. I also have a friend whose father was lucky enough to own an island in a beautiful Lough ( Lough Erne in Co.. Fermanagh N Ireland). They had a mobile home on the island – the only structure there – and were out  boat fishing one summer dawn. The surface was like a mirror- but boiling with rising fish as far as the eye could see- but for 20 minutes they could not touch one, then the rise died.  Still they went back for a lovely breakfast on the 3 lb.. brownie who committed suicide – it jumped into the boat and perhaps through frustration they gave it the last rites and enjoyed their meal!  Gillaroo

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Every Fall I am able to watch the AIM-9 Ballet on the Mccloud in Northern California at Ash Camp.         Harv

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That’s a pretty good description of dapping. The only other thing I would add is that it works even better if you use two flies. The flies have to be big (Bivisibles will do – we call them Loch Ordies) and you connect the point fly to the second fly with about 3-4 feet of heavyish tippet. The point fly isn’t dressed and so tends to stay subsurface. The second fly is treated with floatant and tied directly to the end of the leader. The trouble with dapping is that you need a good wind, and with only one fly it tends to spend most of its time about six feet up (where not even a rocket-propelled trout can get it). With an anchor fly, the floating fly still jumps about, but stays near enough the water, and with good luck, it will confine itself to skating on the surface. On a good day, dapping can be terrifically exciting – you have to remember not to strike until the fish has gone down. On a bad day, watching paint dry is more fun. If you ever try it, make sure you have a good steady wind. You can take salmon on the dap, and probably steelhead too, I would think. The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive.

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gillaroo

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The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew

Of course you can also dap with Daddy-long-legs (Crane flies). I was out dapping an artificial on Loch St. John’s, Caithness, during a good fall of the naturals and getting no offers. I added the natural to my detatched body artificial, and a brownie managed to remove that without me feeling any contact. How do the DO that? Got a few later when the breeze got up a bit tho. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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maybe it fell off?

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I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. I watched two good-sized trouts eyeball these dipping, skipping flies and nail them mid-air–anywhere between 1/2 to 2 inches off the surface of the water…and this with plenty of bugs stuck in the film or on their way up. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

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Last summer, I was standing on the shore of a lake north of Sudbury, Ontario watching rising brookies and clouds of tricos backlit by the setting sun.  Occasionally I would see a fair sized brookie jump clear of the water.  I could not understand why on earth a 12-14" brookie would jump for a size 24 trico.  Then I saw the object of their desires.  Huge dragonflies were crusing the trico hatch, picking them off.  As one flew a bit too low, a brookie jumped clear of the water after it, just missing it. While some were content to sip tricos, others were clearly after bigger game. On the Grand River, I had a small brown nearly land in my lap.  I think it was chasing emerging green drakes.  It made one jump for a rising dun about five feet from me, fell back into the water and immediately took off after another right at my feet, jumping directly at me.  I literally looked right down its throat.  I could only imagine it giving the fishy equivalent of "Oh shit!" when it saw me. It certainly didn’t hang around long! Peter

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I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne…. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before….

Stephen         Yeah, on  a mid-Wisconsin stream once when the big white flies we get here that I at least imitate with "White Millers" were bouncing around. (I could go look up the scientific name of the bug but am too lazy. They are something like "Euphoren Leukons.") I too found no good way. Tried siliconing up a few to the max and then skating them very fast and if I recall got a few, but I certainly did not feel I had cracked the puzzle. God knows why they were doing it, there were enough emergers on the surface. Maybe they were just like well-fed cats that won’t go near anymore static food but if a tidbit dances by they just can’t resist. Reminded me of one of Robert Traver’s stories in one of his books about two buddies of his who made a haul of trout by one on either bank of a stream and then stringing a line above the water from which they dangled a fly. That sounded like crap to me then, and still does, but, like you, I have now seen that the underlying phenomenon is real. Cheers, TB

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Last September I packed into the John Muir Wilderness.  Two of us fished a small stream (you could step across it in most places) at about the 9,500′ elevation.  We found a few pools about the size of a large bathtub.  The pools were surrounded by brush and we had to lean over and dangle our dry flies over the water.  As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  I’d put my money on Traver’s story.

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during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)?

Yes, on a few occasions I have had fish come out of the water to take a fly before the fly had touched down. Usually in high-mountain streams where the seasons are short and feeding is heavy. Besides seeing trout do taildances to feed on caddis hatches, I have seen trout come out of the water to take large adult stoneflies. If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

The only times I have had fish come up to a suspended fly (compared to one that was still falling to the surface) were in very windy conditions. Getting the fly to hang over the water in a 30 mph wind was no problem. I just could not get the damn thing *down* to the fish as it danced across the surface of the water chasing my fly! It was fun to watch, though! Aside from suspending fly and line in strong winds (perhaps carry an enormous fan like the kind used in film studios?) the only thing that might work would be to use a *very* stiff, wire-reinforced line so you can lower the fly to the fish when it comes up for it. Not sure how one would spool that, though… Good luck. I’ve been pondering this same dilemma a long time myself, and haven’t really found a solution. In fact, having been met with howling derisive laughter at what was apparently taken as a feeble attempt at lying whenever I mentioned this, I haven’t even admitted to it in a good while. Cheers, Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Just a note about this group first, enjoy reading it very much, seems very polite which is unusual compared to other groups, enjoyable to say the least. I have seen this before but was lucky to catch the 4lb brook trout that acted like a SAM. I had the boat anchored about 5 feet upstream from a large rock and the wind was blowing about 35 MPH. I was using a 15 foot leader and was letting the wind carry the leader and fly. Downstream from the rock was a glassy area that is common as you realize and the combination of the wind and leader lenght, I was able to hover the fly over and around the glassy area. It only took about 3 or 4 minutes for the fly that was hovering about 5 inches above the water to be spoted by the brookie, next thing I saw was this darn fish leaping from the middle of the glassy area and take the fly, surprised the hell out of me and my fishing buddy and it took awhile to land the fish as we were laughing ourselves silly. Just incase you were wondering where I got the 4lb brookie, 60 miles SE of GooseBay labrador, No-Name lake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

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Question:

What do you conceder your favorite PA stream and why? I am planning a trip this fall and would like to fish one of the blue

ribbon waters of PA. Roger,         Though new to fly fishing, I found the Tulpehocken Creek special regulation area is as fine a blue ribbon fishery as any in Pennsylvania.  I have spoken to a few fisherman and tackle shops locally and they all agree.  The only problem is these fish are some of the most finicky in the state, but there is one advantage here, if you’re married and you want to bring the mate, Vanity Fair outlets are real close by. — Randy Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

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What do you conceder your favorite PA stream and why? I am planning a trip this fall and would like to fish one of the blue ribbon waters of PA. Thank, Roger @

Roger; I think that someone in Montana, California, or New York has "rights" on the term "Blue Ribbon".  I’m not sure about "World Class".  That may need international copyrights.  Anyway, yeah, the Tulley has fish, but may not after this summer.  I think it’s waters got too warm.  I’ll give you a list of some of the best, established waters in the Keystone state, and then you ought to get a copy of the Mid Atlantic Flyfishers Guide.  You can contact flyshops that monitor the respective waters.   Fishing Creek in Lamar Spring Creek: Between State College and Bellefonte. West Branch of the Delaware below the Cannonsville Res. Yellow Breeches, Carlisle (sp?) Little Lehigh, and most other Lehigh Valley streams, Allentown Falling Spring, Chambersburg Penns’ Creek, Centre County Lackawaxen (I cannot remember how to spell this) Spruce Creek (mostly private, but arrangements can be made), Tyrone, There are lots of others, but these are some of the higher profile streams, and for good reason.  I like other streams in the N.W. part of the state, but the good ones often get too hot in the summer and kill all of the stocked fish.  You will want a guide for Penns Creek.  On the other streams, you can do well without a guide, but you will need advice.  These streams are well fished almost all year ’round by some very good anglers who know the water well. You will be fishing for (mostly) seasoned, experienced fish. Jason Beary

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What do you conceder your favorite PA stream and why? I am planning a trip this fall and would like to fish one

of the blue ribbon waters of PA. Thank, Roger

Roger: WHERE in PA? PA has more running water than any state except Alaska. Be specific about location and I can help. The Breeches Penns Creek Fishing Creek White Deer Loyalsok Lehigh Stony Creek Plus MANY others are great!

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What do you conceder your favorite PA stream and why? I am planning a trip this fall and would like to fish one of the blue ribbon waters of PA. Roger; I think that someone in Montana, California, or New York has "rights" on the term "Blue Ribbon".

I have a book at titled "Blue Ribbon Trout Streams".  It’s about many of the streams in California. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

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What do you conceder your favorite PA stream and why? I am planning a trip this fall and would like to fish one of the blue ribbon waters of PA. Thank, Roger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -@

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is my two cents. For walleye find structure such as rockpikes, reefs, humps and points. Wave action and boat traffic can produce currents and waves that seem to help the action. For example a shallow hump in deep water is a great spot when the water is moving right, but on a calm day it can be slow. Slip bobber and leechs are deadly. You can set your leech at a fixed depth and drift it over structure. Windblown points can be good spots. You probably might want to postion your boat  in a fixed spot somewhere off of the structure and cast to the structure. Ultralight equipment. For pike I like submergered weeds in shallower areas with access to deep cold water. Water temperature is important, the cooler the better. leechs work but I like Small Mepps like #3 or 4 in a simple configuration (silver, gold, white.. nothing fancy). Have had luck with sluggos and bigger rapalas. Of course a live sucker on a quick strike works but it is a passive approach and release of the fish isn’t always possible. Use wire leader. For smallies… current. I’m happy to get any advice on smallies. I want a big one, I’ve caught a 4 pounder but I really want to catch (and release) a nice smallie. Leechs work.  In fact you can catch anything on a leech and slip bobber. Alot depends on the time of year, the type of boat you have and your equipment. Good luck. I would be interested in getting any reports on the fishing in the BWCA. Thanks.

In the BWCA, the Boundary Waters CANOE Area, the type of boat will likely be a canoe.  And live bait, especially minnows, will be hard to come by.  Jigs and twister tails and various forms of Rapalas seem to be pretty reliable.  Mepps spinners will work also. Fishing has been pretty slow from what I heard due to very cold water.   But it has been warmer weather the past few days so it may be improving. Del Cecchi Rochester, MN

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I suppose certain areas of BWCA are for canoe access. There are also areas where access is available via 25 hp boats. These craft are used by support people who take people who CANOE. They are also used by people who are allowed to FISH in certain restricted areas under increasingly ridiculous restrictions. Of course people get emotional over these issues. I take the perspective of tolerance for both sides. Otherwise, maybe we’ll let Disney run  the BWCA instead of Greenpeace.

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Leeches for small mouth! Silver kastmaster spoons for lake trout, if your going to be near any! Vertical jigging for ‘em! Try Argo Lake for lake trout. I envy you going up there. Knock ‘em dead!

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In the BWCA, the Boundary Waters CANOE Area, the type of boat will likely be a canoe.  And live bait, especially minnows, will be hard to come by.  Jigs and twister tails and various forms of Rapalas seem to be pretty reliable.  Mepps spinners will work also. Fishing has been pretty slow from what I heard due to very cold water. But it has been warmer weather the past few days so it may be improving. Del Cecchi Rochester, MN

Del, In the Boundary Waters, the type of boat for fishing will be a 14′ or 16′ boat with up to a 25hp motor, OR a square stern canoe with a 5hp motor. Minnows are readily used, along with leeches and nightcrawlers, as the preferred bait.  At this time of year, fishing is mostly on the larger motorized lakes of the Boundary Waters.  There are 18 such lakes that allow motors.  Canoeists that have a problem with this should stay on the paddle-only lakes.

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Snipped my previous post Del, In the Boundary Waters, the type of boat for fishing will be a 14′ or 16′ boat with up to a 25hp motor, OR a square stern canoe with a 5hp motor. Minnows are readily used, along with leeches and nightcrawlers, as the preferred bait.  At this time of year, fishing is mostly on the larger motorized lakes of the Boundary Waters.  There are 18 such lakes that allow motors.  Canoeists that have a problem with this should stay on the paddle-only lakes.

Most of the American side of Lac Lacroix, all of Crooked, and much of Basswood is closed to motors.  Of course there are those that disregard the restriction, especially on Basswood.  Fortunately there are not too many scofflaws around.  Continuing on to the east, Knife has no motors and the border continues with no motors until Sag and Seagull.  In the southern part of the bwca, motors are allowed on Trout lake.   I don’t have any problem with people using motors in the motor zone.  I thought closing the portages was a sneaky backhanded way to reneg on a deal.  I have a boat an motor.  I was merely pointing out that to fish most of the bwca one must use a canoe without a motor, and that transporting minnows is difficult, especially in warm weather.  Leeches are a little easier. A small cooler with nightcrawlers will hold up for a few days.   Looks from your email address that you might be from North Eastern Minnesota.  I know that it has been a long and emotional winter trying to fend off the "Friends of the Boundary Waters" and their lawyers in the Wellstonian mediation hearings.  Hey most of you guys voted for him as I recall.  But don’t attack supporters or neutral parties.  Try not to be so paranoid.  Although just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you.   I guess I stand by my advice, but will note that there are relatively small portions of the BWCA where one is allowed to use motors butyou still must portage using human power.  Some portages have humans for rent, others you are on your own to attach wheels and go.  Wheels are only allowed in the motorized zones.  The dogs on Trout lake aren’t there this year.   Del Cecchi Rochester, MN

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I will be fishing in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness this coming June.  I hope to catch smallmouth bass, walleye, and northern pike, in that order.  I would welcome any advice on what lures and jigs to use, presentation techniques, structure to look for, etc.   Thanks in advance, Todd —

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Here is my two cents. For walleye find structure such as rockpikes, reefs, humps and points. Wave action and boat traffic can produce currents and waves that seem to help the action. For example a shallow hump in deep water is a great spot when the water is moving right, but on a calm day it can be slow. Slip bobber and leechs are deadly. You can set your leech at a fixed depth and drift it over structure. Windblown points can be good spots. You probably might want to postion your boat  in a fixed spot somewhere off of the structure and cast to the structure. Ultralight equipment. For pike I like submergered weeds in shallower areas with access to deep cold water. Water temperature is important, the cooler the better. leechs work but I like Small Mepps like #3 or 4 in a simple configuration (silver, gold, white.. nothing fancy). Have had luck with sluggos and bigger rapalas. Of course a live sucker on a quick strike works but it is a passive approach and release of the fish isn’t always possible. Use wire leader. For smallies… current. I’m happy to get any advice on smallies. I want a big one, I’ve caught a 4 pounder but I really want to catch (and release) a nice smallie. Leechs work.  In fact you can catch anything on a leech and slip bobber. Alot depends on the time of year, the type of boat you have and your equipment. Good luck. I would be interested in getting any reports on the fishing in the BWCA. Thanks.

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Dear Todd, I have spent many years fishing in the Boundry  Water’s area and the Quitico Area and have found it to be exceptional fishing!!  One thing I suggest is a new product specifically designed for quick CATCH-MEASURE-RELEASE.  It is called the Big Fish Ruler and it is manufactured by Big Bass Inc.  I am sending you their web page.  Other baits and accessories will be Gold # 7&9 Rapalas(floating), slip bobber and 1/8 oz leadheads with ribbon leaches, black fly dope and other insect repellent that is water proof.  Skin so soft is not strong enough for a heavy fly infestation.  Remember to take along a water proof camera that can be thrown around and not damaged.  The one I suggest in a Kodak one time water proof camera.  It has 24 pictures and when you are finished you just drop off the camera with the film still inside.  Good fishing and get a couple of rulers.  You will need them!!  The fish are huge!!!

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Hey guys, motor or no motor the fishing is fine in eastern BWCA.  Just returned from a week near Gabbro/Bald Eagle and weather was warm and canoe worked just great for catching northerns, perch and walleye on rapalas and spinners mostly.  You just have to find the schools and drop in the line. So enjoy what you get, big or small.  Those waters still make ‘em tastier.

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Question:

After many years of using FF equipment, I thought that I understood the meaning of value but with prices today being what they are, I’m not sure anymore. I have fished with bamboo and glass and of course now the ubiquitous graphite! I have always held that each man has the duty to select and own the very best equipment he can afford, but somewhere along the line of reason, the meaning of the word value has lost it’s punch. I know that perhaps, one’s ability to feel good about their equipment is an important issue to some and there is of course the snob appeal of ownership that somehow owning the most expensive equipment somehow also creates a better fisherman. Sadly, this is of course not true and most of us who ply the water in search of our outdoor pleasure has found the the type of who I speak. Conversely I seem to run into many more fishermen who are satisfied to use off the shelf equipment as long as it does the job. Now I have not made these comments as a discourse on the merits of one type of person versus the other, but rather to put some meaning into how a person can select the very best in value from the present tremendous spectrum of available graphite rods. I know that there is a rating system for the graphite used in a rod, but the explaination of this tidbit seems to be lost in the hype of fit and finish and word paintings of the fish one can expect to catch. Of course fit and finish should be taken into consideration, but it also must have some limitation brought on by value! I guess the point I am leading to is how can you select a piece of equipment and be satisfied with the relationship between value and quality. I’m not looking for any My granddaddy use to say that the value of anything was more a product of what you thought something was worth than anything else. I suspect that this comes as close to being right as anything. Of course he was living in the late 1800s and we all know about the days when the value of a dollar was a good deal more than it is today. If you consider the value spread between a rod costing $79.00 vs one which cost $1,100.00, somewhere in between, there has to be a value where cost versus quality meet. At what point on the curve does cost outsrip value and value begin to take a beating? I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who would care to join in on this topic. I know that there are more fishermen out there using the under $100.00 rod and reel combinations than those who sport the $500.00 tickets! Your thoughts? —  

Question:

Fish for Dolly Varden, wild trout, Steelhead, Salmon, and more! Join us at our logde for the fishing experience of a lifetime. Check out our web site at <http://www.libby.org/davis/welcome.html

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: Fish for Dolly Varden, wild trout, Steelhead, Salmon, and more! Join us : at our logde for the fishing experience of a lifetime. Check out our web : site at <http://www.libby.org/davis/welcome.html I feel  compelled to respond to the specific claims made on what species are available. My father visited camp Kiklukh last year during the latter part of August into the first few days of September.  He found that this is basically a one fish fishery, silver salmon. Of all the people in camp at the same time, there were only a handful of dolly varden caught and he *heard* of one cutthroat trout being caught. Now, I am not at all trying to be negative on the whole trip because that is not the case.  There were many parts of the trip that were fantastic.  George and Debbie Davis were described as outstanding people.  Of the places we have visited in Alaska, my father’s opinion of Camp Kiklukh was the  absolutely best food he has had and the best silver fishing.  If the fishing was poor around the camp, the anglers were flown out to the Tsiu at no additonal cost just to make sure they got into great numbers of silvers. As I said, I just wanted to clarify what species of fish are available in significant numbers at camp Kiklukh. Kind regards, Steve Kernosky  Ph.D. Michigan Tech University

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