Question:

The topic line  speaks for itself. Drew

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Don’t you work for a living? Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you?

You started a new topic?  Is it just me, or does this feel like "Groundhog Day" to anyone else?

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I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living?

He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Don’t you work for a living? He’s a Usenet Tetherball.  This is what he does. Sandy (your turn to whack him ’round the other direction)

Well……. I know this is probably revolutionary, and will result in much abuse and denigration from the dyed in the wool conservatives in our midst, but  could we perhaps simply cut the elastic? After much  abuse, some quite perverse and orgiastic, some folks decided, to cap the blokes elastic, "Free speech, free speech", cried some aghast, "you must sit still and be abused, you wild phantast, How dare you try to change things, with your calls", in the meantime the idiot was still searching for his balls. Loud twangs emitted from the aggravated multitude, neuticles were substituted, and it was then construed, when a nasty bugger capitulates, and then confesses, no one has the right, to stop him wearing dresses. TL MC

Response:

The topic line  speaks for itself.

I think it was supposed to be, "I can’t believe I’ve learned much here." — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

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I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Response:

writing skills.

See ya REAL soon then! Wolfgang

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman

Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

Do your homework, Herman. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills. — Citizen Fisherman Found out there are more keys than the K, I , A and S? Herman

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. …

You always hate the ones you love. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

I’ve been watching this board all damn day. What a waste of time with people who hate me. Reminds me of my family reunions. I’ll be back when I need fly fishing advice or some practice with my acerbic writing skills.

Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

Response:

You have a hard time moving from one topic to the next, don’t you? — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alternatively, just get a new ISP and sign on as Felicity_the_Flyfisherwoman. Much fun.

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Question:

If a person were to find themselves in Puerto Vallarta for a week, how, and where would one go about arranging to fly fish?  What equipment would you be able (or should) take with you?  What does a charter cost?  etc. Thanks, Steve

Response:

I’d take a 10 or 9 wt.  Prefer at 10.  Take a sinking line and a floater and a basket.  Take flies surf fishermen use in california and big poppers.  You may not be able to find an experienced fly guide but you can catch fish. Possibilities should include Roosters, and Dorado,  Robalo (Snook),  Corvina (like a Red but in the surf and tricker.)  You may have to guide the guide but you should be able to find a Panga and a guia who can find fish.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If a person were to find themselves in Puerto Vallarta for a week, how, and where would one go about arranging to fly fish?  What equipment would you be able (or should) take with you?  What does a charter cost?  etc. Thanks, Steve

Response:

MR  Neeley  There are a number of charter boats at PV . You  will truely be in a fishing paradise . PLEASE take advantage of every moment .,  I have seen little kids go out on dugout like  canoes and catch 20 pound dolphin , on hand lines . The other pratice it for the locals to go out in their long boats with nets streches inbetween the boats . they can   vacumm a bay in a matter of hours . the bottom there is rocky , with the shore line with small pebbles . and some sand thrown in too . In addition to a fly rod i would bring a nice  light tackle spin outfit …and a good  a medium action bait reel.. i use the penn 965 . For Fly fishing i would  go to a  a surfing hot spot north of town called Punta de Mita .  there is a little bay right at the point . .  Wade out like 100 yards , on the rocky  bottom , and climb on top on one of the many bolders in the surf . In the incoming tide you can cast 360 degrees above and out of the water . It is unlimited what you can catch there in about 4 feet of water , but it includes , rock bass , little tuna , dolphin , and tarpon . I have seen sharks there also . The wave will come in and the water will be 6 feet deep , and as it passes  the water level will drop 2 feet. I have had the most luck in a incoming tide . In fact it is like a light switch .  Plug fishing is really great too .I like the small two gang  hook mirrorlures . The bottom is rocky , you have to have a very tough leader . Also , it is a long walk out , be sure to talk everything you need , cause it takes a while to walk back inshore .  Also just north of town , where  the ferry docks are , there is a great jetty , which is good for typical jetty fishig .   The boats there are , or have been quite old , all wood , look like they were made in the 30’s . BUT  this is slowly getting better. But their fishing gear on the boat is all very heavy duty . They are great guys , and will fish the way you want if you want to tease a fish and cast a fly at it . The marlin are only a few miles off shore .  This is a paradise , research it , and make the most out of your trip . Hale Savannah

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Question:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.

I enthusiastically agree.  Even though most of the material in this book is recycled from "An Outside Chance, 2nd Ed." which was recycled from the first edition, which was a compilation of essays published in "Sports Illustrated" (in their glory days in the 70’s) and elsewhere, this book is a must-read.  McGuane has a gift for writing like nobody else I know. I wish I had been born 15 years earlier, and had been in Key West in the early 70’s, when it was haunted by McGuane, Russell Chatham, Jim Harrison, and Jimmy Buffett.  Don’t even want to go there now, I fear it would be a horrible disappointment. Kevin

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

This is the finest fishing-related book I’ve read in many years. Maybe ever. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

joe, that book is one of my favorites… it’s been awhile, mebbe i’m due for a re-read. walt

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Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post

    do us all a favor.  send a copy to forty. wayno

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read.

It just keeps getting better as your read through it. There’s a piece on permit fishing toward the end that is possibly the best thing that I have read on fly fishing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

The Longest Silence, Thomas McGuane I’ve only started the book, but I am already humbled by McGuane’s story-telling in this book.   No offense to you guys (many of whom write good <g), but McGuane’s narrative takes me right into the places and experiences in his fishing life, be it fly fishing for trout or spin casting for stripers in the surf.   If the rest of the book is as pleasant as the first part, I just may have to buy a copy.   Definitely a good read. Joe F. Ordinarily I’d finish a book before commenting, but I’m overdue for a decent on-topic post, and I’m really liking this book.

Response:

Question:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order. Allan

Response:

In alphabetical order, I think a new law firm should be set up in Montana by three such men that need a change in life and a serious move into happy trout country.  I.E. "HARRISON, FAULKNER & MILLER"  the Legal Maulers of Montana would have a thriving practice and they could fly fish every lunch hour if they so choose.  I would even donate my services in exchange for theirs.  It would certainly be of equal value! Billings Montana is a serious location  including, Helena and Missoula or even Hamilton Montana.  I only wonder how good they would look in a Western Stetson? Of course they may always try Jackson  Hole and compete with Jerry Spence! CSG (chuckle, sneer, grin!) Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order. Allan

; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA! — http://www.gink.com/chat

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; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA!

See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

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See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

______  Your breeding is showing. Sad. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

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Wolfgang writes: ; ) Mr. G. GOTCHA! See how often the gnome will dip into the same sorry little bag to cover his lame ass? GOTCHERSELF!!

Bwwwhahahahahaha.  ROFLEO. So very, very true, Wolf.  The twits of this world will never change.   d;0) Dave L.

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Whooops!  Guess I rose to the bait …. er,  fly.

Response:

"In alphabetical order …. " You might want to check your order.

things ain’t always rational in Bizarro world. Myxtplk

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You ought to be careful here George, somebody who uses the word bastard as often as you do, not to mention all the other choice language you occasionally come out with, really should refrain from comment on breeding. I fear you may know how it occurs, but not what it means. — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You ought to be careful here George, somebody who uses the word bastard as often as you do, not to mention all the other choice language you occasionally come out with, really should refrain from comment on breeding. I fear you may know how it occurs, but not what it means.

_______ Gee Mike, that term was not used by me in THIS thread, but I see your point and you’re right. I do know, as a matter of fact, what you mean for I may have sired all the bottom dwellers here.  I guess some of us have a talent for such things but look at the fun they’re having!? I will refrain from commenting on what you have aptly pointed out in the future.  What would I do without you Mike?  You’re a great guy who is always looking after me. I am a blessed man, Your pal, George Gehrke Beware!  Do not feed the Bottom Dwellers! — http://www.gink.com

Response:

I suppose I ought to comment on this thread even though I don’t know why. Well, I sure as hell wouldn’t mind practicing with these guys, particularly in Montana.  Although we’d all be working the overnight shift at Ole’s so we could fish all day, so the law degree becomes superfilous anyway. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…The shop I guide for has a deal with Terry in which we guide anyone who wants to fish there. The fish are too huge to land alone so this is recommended. I have fished there a bunch and can assure you that there is nothing easy about landing a 6 pound Kamloops on a sz. 18 pheasant tail. The fishing is easy- if you use a cork pellet- but if you fish it according to the hatches and the mood of the fish its a damn fun time and a challenge. For a time this year I was nailing them on a sz. 18 sulphur parachute – it’ll make your knees shake watching a 26 inch brown sip down a fly that small. . My personal best was a 15 pound rainbow. I caught her on a sz. 16 beetle, barbless…..My funniest catch was a 20 some odd inch Kamloops that put me into the backing in one long run. It took the fly, turned tail and ran straight at me, jumped chest high into the air, bounced off  a boulder in front of me and kept on hauling. She ran 60 feet in one run. The run was so violent I ended up tangled in the trees 50 feet downstream. I ran after her, pulled my line out of the trees, and tried to reel her in. Another run upstream, and the down…….I landed her after a long fight. Funny thing is, I was just showing my guest how to roll cast and didn’t expect to hook Granted, it may be fake, but it will have you shaking in your boots. By no means is it easy.  Any how, enough rambling, I’ll let you guys know what Terry says tomorrow. I just decided that I’m going to fish there for a while in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Response:

I wouldn’t recommend a midnight raid due to the dogs, the river keep and the twelve gauge.but I’m planning on staying in the guest cottage at Terry’s for the clave and will try my best to work something out. I will call him tomorrow and see what he says about groups, rates, discounts etc…

That’s right nice of you Matt. I actually knew that you were a guide for that stretch of water from talking to Walt and from reading your emails on the NC list, but since we haven’t met, I didn’t want to be so bold as to ask a favor. However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

Response:

No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

How does IJ do that, anyhow?  I already told Walt I was coming to the spring clave in Carolina.  However, I forgot to mention that my attendance was contingent upon the presence of Indian Joe.  Wouldn’t be a Carolina Clave without THE MAN being there. Mark Faulkner

Response:

However, I do have one suggestion. When you talk to Terry, tell him that ROFF consists primarily of well-kempt expert anglers who could bring in lots of future business due to their influence among the wealthy. As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. –Steve

        since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual wayno the innocent

Ahhhh, Becky and Jody; I taught them everything they know back in ‘74. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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(snipped extremely large dose of fermented BS) in the evening if I can. I’ll post a report…… Tight lines…. Matt McCray

Walt, Matt’s been at the mushrooms again. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk.

That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0) Louie

Response:

Steve Z: <<As opposed to divulging the fact that ROFF is really just a rowdy bunch of profane cheapskates who will attack even a dogwood tree when sufficiently drunk. That’s it, Zimmerman!  It am generous to a fault, it wasn’t a dogwood, and it was Jeffy what was drunk!  Did you pay me for your ‘clave hat?  d;0)

You forgot to say ‘f*ck profanity’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

As Delbert McClinton says, "it ain’t what you eat but the way how you chew it". — Charlie…

Response:

since we are under oath here on roff, i must admit to all the accusations contained in this post, save one:  i haven’t been well-kempt since becky oakley and jody stirewalt got into the ritual mushrooms back in ‘78 and decided to make me a human sacrifice to the goddess of love.  it is my firm belief that the statute of limitations has run on that incident. wayno the innocent

LOL.   I seem to remember a similar incident involving a certain cactus. Of course you’re the legal expert here, but our president has made abundantly clear the difference between "innocent" and "not convicted". Joe F.

Response:

I sent him an email a couple of weeks ago, detailing the steps.  I think he enjoys the anonymity. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC The older you get, the better you realize you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out. If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin. I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.      I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave.   All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

IJ…might be time to adjust the medication a bit <G. BTW, it’s a different crowd "downstream" in avery/watauga…they’ll have you locked up on charges for environmental pollution within the first day! … of course, you’ll probably be staying over at elk river at tom selleck’s place won’t you? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game.  We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a call .  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring clave. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.    Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in Wilmington?  Indian Joe

Response:

Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Yessir, Dave, sir, I’ll take my stripes sir. But sir my question still remains sir. Are you… uh I mean… is Louie going to lead us on a midnight trip into Boone’s Fork or are we gonna try to make some sorta financial arrangement to fish it sir? Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Response:

Dang it, man, if I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were trained by wayno.  Shhhhhhhhhhh!  And we call them "raids" when we sneak in at night.   You know how to handle a flash-light?  A tree? Louie btw, what the hell is this Boone’s Fork thingy?

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements –Steve

Response:

Steve Z: <<Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements I agree with Walt.  I once belonged to a local ffing club.  Three heavily stocked ponds with very big fish.  After fishing there for awhile, I found out where the term "shooting fish in a barrel" came from.  It was not ffing – in was fly catching, and required very lttle effort or skill. However, a mid-night raid on such  a place would be *more* than ethical. Dave L.

Response:

Well, I was referring to a specific private section of the creek where the owners have "carefully cultivated the stream habitat" (read stocked insanely big fish and fed them pellets on a regular basis). The fish there are unbelievably big. See www.woundedfork.com for details. Walt calls it "fake fishing." I simply wanna know if he’s going to pull some strings with the locals to get us a few casts on these waters or if you were going to make… other… arrangements If they’re Orvis endorsed I’m sure Dave can pull some strings<g. — Charlie…

these waters, in a sense, are orvis endorsed. to fish them, you hafta arrange a guide trip at the orvis shop. I believe it’s $450.00. is it fake. well, in the sense that there ain’t no other stream in the state with fish like this…sure, it’s unreal, afterall, they are fed daily. are they big fish….well, they’re mighty damn big fish! kamloops, browns and rainbows, many well over 30". the biggest brookies i’ve ever seen, some 24"+. california golden trout in the 24" range. 100’s of fish between 12" & 24". it’s a sight to see, but it ain’t "real." does that mean i don’t fish it? hell, are you crazy? i’ll  fish it every time i’m lucky enough to wrangle an invite, which appropriately, is just once this year. there is a thrill involved with a 30"+ fish on a 3wt…even if it is "fake." is it wise to sneak in there….go ahead boys…. make terry’s day, or should i say, make his wolves day! yup…wolves. btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool. walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

btw, Terry is a very nice fellah who has one of the neatest homes you’d ever want to see. the interior is pure fly fishing motif…from stained glass windows, artwork, books, upholstery, and even the silver and crockery….totally cool.

Do you think there’s a chance that if we told him what we’re planning (I’d be willing to give it a shot) that he might make certain allowances for us (reduced fee, no guide requirement, etc)? I think feeding the fish kinda crosses my own little line of what’s real and what’s fake, but as long as we’re gonna be in the area and all it would be nice to catch a really really big trout. –Steve

Response:

Steve   Wore my code marine tee shirt during super senior tennis tournament in kKGreensboro this weekend. Do I get some type of commission, it sure did not help my game. We play doubles, my partner and I won first two matches then my legs <still tired from  Slick Rock Creek in fall gave out.

If you’re gonna blame the T-shirt for your poor tennis play then I don’t think we’re going to be in any mood to pay you an endorsement check. If you had won, on the other hand, then that would be a different story. Mebbie a handful of Albolene or a used T-shirt  I can be in Raleigh in two hours so if you guys are flying out to Maine or someplace fishing and the company plane will hold three give me a

call . What’s your fishing schedule looking like over the Christmas holidays? I’m not sure the plane is available, but we’re trying to work things out to drop in unannounced on Marie. You’re welcome to join us.  Think you are a pretty smart guy, after very short exposure to fall ball gang I notice you have planned to arrange own quarters. for spring

clave. It’s not that I didn’t like the people. Summa the nicest FF folks I’ve ever met. But I can tell you that I was worried during my visits to the cabin at the Fall Ball that the ATF was going to raid the cabin and that LaCourse was going to put on his best Koresh impression and torch the place. All the downstream neighbors on Arkca creek are still trying ti to find the guys who poisioned their stream when they threw the left over meals into the stream beh9ind the cabin.

I never did find out how that spaghetti sauce turned out IJ. Bill and I were too afraid to show up for dinner that night. Think I am getting pretty good on this computator thing,  Might br be ablr able to get rid of my fire and blanket. Does your company want a highly paid executative   who lives in

Wilmington? No job openings in Wilmington IJ, but I do offer a standing invitation to drive down there and show you how to fix your newsreader so that your name shows up in the From list when you post Take care, IJ. We’ll see you soon!! –Steve

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Steve Z: <<or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife) Firt of all, wuss, you announce nothing to the dear lady — you tell or "inform" her that you are going fishing with the guys next May.   Second, it was Louie (the evil one) that went on the midnight trip and the waters weren’t restricted. Now, if you wanna hang with those guys, Steve, ya gotta get your stories right.  <g Dave L.

Response:

I’ve reformatted your announcement below for the less fortunate. Also, I saw Boone’s Fork listed on your page. Does this mean are you going to talk your friends at Boone’s Fork into letting us fish their "fake fishing" stretch–or is LaCourse planning to lead another midnight trip into restricted waters? Let me know, cause if we’re gonna do Boone’s Fork I’ll plan to tie up a few pellet flies this winter. –Steve (still waiting for the right moment to break the news of my May vacation to my wife)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt

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-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.    Indian Joe

Response:

-Walt  you got so excited about spring that you forgot to type a message. PLEASE REANNOUNCE.  Indian Joe

sorry ij…i guess the html kilt it. i’ll try again. ***ANNOUNCING*** The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information. http://users.boone.net/wgw/clave.html Hope to see ya there. Walt Hope to see ya there. Walt — Ezflyfish.com http://www.ezflyfish.com BRBG http://www.abebooks.com/home/BLUEBOOKS P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604 (828)963-5001

Response:

The 2nd Annual NC ROFF Spring Clave is planned. All are welcome to join us in fishing and merriment. Here is the link to all of the information.  ’00 R.O.F.F. Spring Fling Hope to see ya there. Walt

Response:

Question:

Hi, I missed the original post, but if it’s tailing loops, Dan is right on – the timings the thing. I would just add that you might also check that ou are indeed throwing the line "up and over". I find that many problems originate when a caster is just whipping the rod, rather than concentrating on putting the fly line up and over the shoulder, this ensures a straight take away, and does a lot to prevent side loops, which most people confuse with tailing loops. Just a thought…. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders. Snip                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

This is one of the best explanations/techniques I have heard for identifying this problem!!!  A couple years ago I was throwing tailing loop after tailing loop.  Since it was the end of the day and I had gotten up at 4:00am I just figured I was tired and decided to call it a day.  Just then (of course) a big brown noisily slurped a hopper and I decided on "just a couple more casts". I promptly threw a tailing loop AND tangled in an overhanging branch.  I snapped off the leader.  When preparing to tie on a new one I noticed a crack in the flyline about 2 or 3" up from the leader.  I trimmed the line, tied on a new leader and proceeded to make several casts that were better than most I had thrown all afternoon.  Now I have a technique for identifying the problem rather than lucking out.  Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem. If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Hi Dana, It sounds like the old trailing loop syndrome.  We all start off with it as a throw back to the spinning rod. Your book is correct. I’ve taught many people how to cast and they all go through this problem.  Most seem to correct the problem once they’ve heard the problem explained in a way that makes sense to them. So I’ll explain it in a different way. Hold your rod out directly straight from you and push down. Notice the Tip of the rod goes up before it goes down with the rest of the rod. When you start a cast the same thing happens. If you apply too much power too soon the rod tip goes down before it goes forward. The line simply follows along going down before it comes up. Sometimes catching itself on the way back up. Any power applied before the tip of the rod reaches the 12:00 position will cause the rod tip to go down before forward. Therefore the majority of power must be applied after the tip of the rod has past the butt. Good Luck — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

Something that improved my casting was to convince myself there was no difference between the back and forward cast.  I started false casting 30′ of line and slowly rotated while keeping the line going in the same direction until I was facing what was my back cast.  When I could rotate 360 degrees under the cast and keep it going smoothly with tight loops and not shock the line or have tailing loops, my attitude toward the mechanics of casting changed and my casting improved. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem.  If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                             Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Besides the mechanical problems addressed in another post, your casting technique can certainly cause this problem. The two most common causes are bad timing, and the afore-mentioned jerky accelleration.  If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.   For the side-arm cast, lay the rod out directly in front of you with the reel pointed in the direction of the target (not pointed down at the ground *very important*).  Use a slicing motion, not a scooping motion to make the cast while keeping your shoulders perfectly still.  You can watch the loop travel in both directions and you can easily see the width of the casting arc you’re using.  By changing the width of this casting arc you can widen or tighten your loops.  *Dont wait for the line to straighten out entirely* before you start your forward cast.  It takes a split second reaction time to initiate the forward cast and if you wait until it straightens out entirely it will fall considerably and bleed off energy before you actually start your forward cast. Reaction time is different for everyone and you have to find out just when is right by trial and error.  For starters pick a spot a foot or two back from the end of the fly line, and when the unrolling loop reaches that point, start your forward cast.  Adjust this distance farther back from the end of the fly line or closer to it as needed.  When you hit it "spot on" the fly will just sort of stop for a split second in mid-air.  That’s perfect.  The good news is that it doesn’t have to be perfect, but the closer you can get to it the more efficient your casting will be. Bad accelleration is a more common problem with tailing loops and it becomes particularly noticeable when making longer casts or when casting in windy conditions.  The tendency is to put a lot more force into the rod and that usually results in jerking it forward.  This sudden jerk causes the rod to load (flex) suddenly and then unload (straighten) slightly because less energy is used to finish the stroke than start it.  This causes the rod tip to travel in a concave or U shape and will always throw a tailing loop.   Extra power can be added to a casting stroke, but it must be at the very end – "Accellerate to a Stop".  If this is the problem, try stopping the rod more suddenly at the end of the stroke instead of hitting it harder at the start. Another option that will result in the same thing is to start the beginning of your cast by pulling on the rod, not jerking it.  With proper accelleration and the right casting arc, your rod tip will travel in a straight line "—-" from start through the flexing and to the finish which will throw a tight efficient loop.                         Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

Question:

Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. snip A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

And don’t forget the enjoyment fishing with the right partner can add. Steve

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You had better be careful…your post sounds an awful lot like good, old, common sense…something that is often missing from some of the rhetoric I see in this group.  Ever think of applying for a moderators position? JIM WARD

Response:

Good comments!  It’s really about how you internalize the experience, not so much the tools that you use. -Burton (p.s., I love the McKenzie) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow! George and Tim-Bone have done it time and time again. Lets give each other a chance. I believe they are good folks, but haven’t met either. I have never fished a nymph, but tied a few. I’ve fished worms, soft shelled crabs, minnows, etc. when I was little and didnt know about fly fishing. At the age of 12 I mowed lawns to earn $12 for my first fly rod, a bamboo, and still have it. One of my most enjoyable times was in Wisconsin Muskie fishing. Another was on the Mc Kinzie in Qregon with my wife. The Muskie fishing was with live shiners and the Oregon trip was dry flies. A point I would like to make about fishing is that it isn’t what you use that memories are made of it is the stream, lake, fish caught (kept or released) and the _moment_ of excitement at the time. What you used doesn’t matter, it is the memory that you will keep. So let’s give some slack to the folks who use INDICATORS, droppers or otherwise, and remember the memories. keep ‘em dry lukn4fish Bob Madden San Jose, Ca

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Question:

Can someone let me know what conditions near State College are now and what they look like for this weekend?

Response:

The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

Response:

The area got hit with a lot of rain this past weekend and streams went high again.  The forecast is for rain tonight and tomorrow morning and possible showers for the next few days.  Only if we don’t receive significant precipitation will the streams be fishable. Dave Rothrock

Hi Dave I missed the original post.  What part of PA mare we talking about? If it is central PA (i.e State College area), how has the fishing been so far this spring? Ed Sowinski

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

Well Moose, Flowers galore here!    It is a bit like little ole England…..without the population and pollution…I guess that’s why it’s called "Victoria".   Alot of British subjects like to retire here….so do Chinese,  Japanese,  and lots of seniors.  I imagine that as the place gets better known there might be a population problem.  It is known as the "city of gardens".   You’d love it Gary. By the way….consider yourself HIRED!!! Annie( sitting up in recliner….like …WOW…still hurting….this rain is making my bones ache!)

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: Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra

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: But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without : the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Like England, if England had really nice summer weather. If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens in Victoria.  Exquisite. Here’s a vaguely humorous story:  The last time I was in Victoria, I was on a plane back to Seattle (a 20-minute international flight).  Now, I HATE flying, so I was sitting there (next to the window — ARGH), trembling, hyperventilating, grabbing the armrests and generally scaring the hell out of everyone on the plane. The gentleman sitting next to me finally asked, "If flying frightens you so much, why didn’t you take the ferry back?" to which I replied, "If I didn’t fly, I’d miss my train home!" Myra

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And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive. Thank you for the compliment, Annie! I think I’d enjoy an ursine incarnation next time round – that’s assuming the gods won’t let me have my first choice, which would be a Siberian tiger. Toronto sounds … ghastly.

It is!!  Well, climate wise anyway.  Makes me feel anxious just remembering it in August.  Phew!! Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET. But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps?

It’s heavenly, isn’t it Annie?  But keep it a secret, we don’t want everyone to know!  <g Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing. Really? I scuttle out of the sunshine as fast as possible once we’re past April. I really do find that bright sunlight exacerbates my anxiety. I am *far* happier on vaguely overcast days. As to whether the sun is harsher these days, I just wouldn’t know. But it doesn’t seem more able to scorch plants, does it?

I hate the heat and that bright, glaring sun.  It’s ok if you’re out in the forest, or sitting on a river bank in the shade fishing.  Otherwise, turn the ol’ air-conditioner up to 9 and chill out! Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job?? Consider the job applied for! I can think of few jobs I get more satisfaction out of than feeding and watering plants. It’s one of my very favourite occupations.

Very tranquil business that.  The first greenhouses we had had to be all hand watered.  I’d go into a sort of meditative trance, humming to the plants. Computerized irrigation systems are wonderful when you’ve got 12,000 poinsettias to feed and water – but it’s just not the same.  <g Mally  :) — Gary Cooper

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all )

Annie:I did read the post and I am jealous,but the snow is melting again in the sunshine that followed, and all will be well in another month or so,just in time for FALL.One good point is that when I get truck loads of Ben&Jerrys I can store it outside.It"s funny that my two favourite provinces are the furthest from me,BC and Nova Scotia[Cape Breton]Hey I think I just saw a mosquito.                                        Keep the Faith Moose. PS.I love your posts.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all ) Annie:I did read the post and I am jealous,but the snow is melting again in the sunshine that followed, and all will be well in another month or so,just in time for FALL.One good point is that when I get truck loads of Ben&Jerrys I can store it outside.It"s funny that my two favourite provinces are the furthest from me,BC and Nova Scotia[Cape Breton]Hey I think I just saw a mosquito.                                       Keep the Faith Moose. PS.I love your posts.

I’m glad you said that…I been having a bit of a crisis lately (what else is new) but it is nice to hear from a fellow Ontarian even if I did abandone the place.  Glad the snow is melting there.  I also love Nova Scotia…..has a completely different feel to it than the west coast.  There is this fantastically old graveyard in Halifax that looks like something out of a Frankenstein movie….especially with that lovely fog rolling in at night….ever seen it? Take care, Annie ( STILL transplanting…..AND sitting up almost straight )

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Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose. Lived there too Moose, waaaay back when it was still Port Arthur and Fort William!  Remember clearing the snow off the picnic tables at the lake so we could have a picnic in April! <shudder  Then as soon as the snow went, in came the black fly and mosquitoes!  Fabulous fishing country though.  Caught my first 5 pounder there and got chased away from it by a bear.  <g  You’d better move out here to La La Land….it’s wet, but the flowers are blooming, the grass is green and the trees are leafing out. Mally  :)

Im in the process of finding my BBQ with a metal detector right now,maybe Rob will send me some of those steaks that are on sale in GB.Ever heard of Mad Moose disease.                                                  Later Moose.

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: Now, now Myra.. you wouldn’t have said that if you had been : here *last* Summer. It was like Arizona. By my standards that : means Hell of Earth… but some people liked it. I’ve been in Arizona in the summer — eeeeeyyyyeeeeewwww!  (Apologies to Arizonans — but Tucson in July is simply unbearable.)  England in the midst of a heat wave would be "Hell on Earth," if there’s a lack of air conditioning.  That was one of my beefs about living near the beach here in So.Cal. — as long as the temperature didn’t go above 70, everything was great, but any higher and I melted because there were no air conditioners anywhere. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, where August/September temperatures soar as high as 110, but as we say (cynically), it’s a DRY heat.  <g Victoria in high summer is heavenly, with the temperatures in the 70s (or 20s for my Fahrenheit-impaired Canadian friends), soothing breezes and the smell of flowers everywhere.   : If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens : in Victoria.  Exquisite. : It sounds wonderful. These gardens are magnificant.  I’ve never seen anything like them.  I think the best time to go is in the early evening so you can see everything in the daylight and then lit up like a fairyland after dusk. Re my Victoria-Seattle flight: : ROFLMAO! The contortions we PD types go through! True!  The next time I flew, which was about 7 years later, was another short hop from L.A. to Las Vegas.  At one point, I turned to my mother (who just loves to fly — don’t you hate people like that!) and quietly poo-poohed me, but then the captain announced that we were landing, and I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO FELT IT. Nothing like a panic attack to heighten the old senses.  <g Myra P.S.  One of my favorite humor writers is James Lileks, who also happens to have PD.  He wrote an hysterical book of essays called "White Knuckles," and the title piece is about flying.  He calls airplanes "thin metal cylinders of death."  Hee hee.

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: I assume you have been here before. Oh yes.  I think Victoria is one of the most beautiful cities I’ve ever visited. : Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. Since I live in Southern California, maybe you could wish me a cool spell?  <g  It’s going to be about 100 degrees in the Valley tomorrow. : Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going : to put them all ) Myra (contemplating which plants she plans to kill *this* year)

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<mercilessly pruned without thought to future seasons Very tranquil business that.  The first greenhouses we had had to be all hand watered.  I’d go into a sort of meditative trance, humming to the plants. Computerized irrigation systems are wonderful when you’ve got 12,000  poinsettias to feed and water – but it’s just not the same.  <g

Aha! We’ve *got* you now! So it was *you* who was responsible for the poinsettia for Christmas scam!!!! I might have known! — Gary Cooper

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: Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. I’m having a major jealousy fit right now.  Sigh. Have they hung the flowers on the street lights yet? Myra

Sorry Myra……didn’t mean to make you jealous….I wanted to make Moose jealous and he probably didn’t even read this ( he lives in Ontario where it is presently snowing ).  As for the flower baskets….I couldn’t tell you because I’m still stuck at home with my back out ( and hating every minute )  but I assume that if they are not already up they will be soon.  I assume you have been here before. Hope it warms up wherever you are Myra. warm thoughts….. Annie ( still transplanting seedlings and wondering where I am going to put them all )

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Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

Lived there too Moose, waaaay back when it was still Port Arthur and Fort William!  Remember clearing the snow off the picnic tables at the lake so we could have a picnic in April! <shudder  Then as soon as the snow went, in came the black fly and mosquitoes!  Fabulous fishing country though.  Caught my first 5 pounder there and got chased away from it by a bear.  <g  You’d better move out here to La La Land….it’s wet, but the flowers are blooming, the grass is green and the trees are leafing out. Mally  :)

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Flowers galore here!    It is a bit like little ole England…..without the population and pollution…I guess that’s why it’s called "Victoria".   Alot of British subjects like to retire here….so do Chinese,  Japanese,  and lots of seniors.  I imagine that as the place gets better known there might be a population problem.  It is known as the "city of gardens".   You’d love it Gary. By the way….consider yourself HIRED!!!

Wonderful! I shall start packing immediately. Ummmm… I don’t s’pose you happen to know a quick cure for agoraphobia, do you? — Gary Cooper

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: the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Like England, if England had really nice summer weather.

Now, now Myra.. you wouldn’t have said that if you had been here *last* Summer. It was like Arizona. By my standards that means Hell of Earth… but some people liked it. If you love gardens, you would be utterly enchanted by Butchart Gardens in Victoria.  Exquisite.

It sounds wonderful. Here’s a vaguely humorous story:  The last time I was in Victoria, I was on a plane back to Seattle (a 20-minute international flight).  Now, I HATE flying, so I was sitting there (next to the window — ARGH), trembling, hyperventilating, grabbing the armrests and generally scaring the hell out of everyone on the plane. The gentleman sitting next to me finally asked, "If flying frightens you so much, why didn’t you take the ferry back?" to which I replied, "If I didn’t fly, I’d miss my train home!"

ROFLMAO! The contortions we PD types go through! — Gary Cooper

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writes: I bet I was jinxed by some recent postings from those mentally twisted sun-lovers, those evil sun-tanned folk that soak up those UV-rays in a dastardly attempt to mutate into silicon skinned humaniods. This weather is all their fault, I just know it! Its their revenge for that wonderful blizzard this winter.

OK Grumpy!  I’m one of those evil sun-worshipers!  I get depressed when its dark and gloomy outside.  Cheer up and turn the air-con on!  I can relate to the heat though.  I cant tolerate heat at all anymore.  If I do try and get a tan its at short intervals.  The hot dry heat here in NM is stiffling (sp?) and I hate those over 100 degrees days!  And cutting the grass in the summer takes me all day because I have to go inside to the cool air so often due to getting overheated.  So, I know where your coming from grumpy! <g  Cheer up.  :) or I am going to put you back in the space alien freezer! Cyndie

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Arthur, CHILL Thomas

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: OK Grumpy!  I’m one of those evil sun-worshipers!  I get depressed when : its dark and gloomy outside.  Cheer up and turn the air-con on! But I can’t go jogging indoors! At least I can’t unless I spend some rediculous amount of money on one of those club memberships. Just give me a nice shady pool to swim in. : I can : relate to the heat though.  I cant tolerate heat at all anymore.  If I do : try and get a tan its at short intervals.  The hot dry heat here in NM is : stiffling (sp?) and I hate those over 100 degrees days! Yeah, but its a dry heat. We get primordial swamp summers here on the east coast. : Cheer up.  :) or I am going to put you back in the space alien freezer! Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8                                                 Best Wishes,                                                 Arthur

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Yikes! Its 80+ degress F. out here and the sun is strong. I don’t like this. I am hot and sweaty already and the summer hasn’t even begun yet. The weather was fine yesterday, 70+ degrees, cloudy, comfortable. Now its hot and I am pissed, creeping about in the shadows in a futile effort to avoid that burning sunlight. <snipped

Arthur, I am in complete agreement about hot weather.  Unfortunately, I made the mistake of moving to Maryland from New York state about three years ago (for education reasons but now I’m stuck here).  I’ve had many a friend ask me, "Don’t you feel better now that the sun and warm weather are here?"   My answer is a definite "NO!!!!!!"  While I do enjoy the warm breezes of early spring, these hot temperatures (80 degrees and above) and humidity destroy every last bit of my already-crumbling motivation.  Sadly enough, Maryland seems to have two seasons: a sadistic version of summer and a pathetic version of winter.  Everyone here claims that I will get used to it.  My fourth summer here is fast approaching, and I am not used to it. In terms of panic and anxiety, the heat definitely makes them worse.  As someone else mentioned, it’s easy enough to put on a sweater when cold, but staying cool is much more difficult.  I feel horrible when I’m hot.  In fact, most of my PA’s cause me to feel hot.  On top of that, I’m very sensitive to the sun (not too much of a problem right now with my housebound status) which makes my head ache and my skin burn. Finally is the problem of air conditioning.  My apartment does not have it, but it’s really necessary here.  Last summer I borrowed an air conditioner for a few weeks and will probably do the same this summer, especially since I’ll be spending most, if not all, of it indoors.  The problem is that I really don’t like air conditioning at all.  I love having the windows open. But when we start hitting 90 degrees here, I just won’t be able to handle it. Oh, and I agree, Arthur, that this is revenge for those glorious snowstorms this winter, particularly the blizzard.  As I sat here this winter, looking out at the ineptly plowed street, my heart filled with terror as I imagined the summer to come.  *Sigh* Well, now, I think I’ve whined sufficiently.  I suppose everyone should be prepared for future complaints from us heat-sensitive panic sufferers.  The worst is yet to come, I’m afraid.  *Sigh* again. Cathleen

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<snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

Gary: Want to trade houses,were expecting ten inches,yes I said inches snow for this year…..Looking for my scoop,Moose.

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And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive.

Thank you for the compliment, Annie! I think I’d enjoy an ursine incarnation next time round – that’s assuming the gods won’t let me have my first choice, which would be a Siberian tiger. Toronto sounds … ghastly. Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET.

But Vancouver Island sounds lovely – a little like England without the sense of over-crowding and pollution, perhaps? Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing.

Really? I scuttle out of the sunshine as fast as possible once we’re past April. I really do find that bright sunlight exacerbates my anxiety. I am *far* happier on vaguely overcast days. As to whether the sun is harsher these days, I just wouldn’t know. But it doesn’t seem more able to scorch plants, does it? Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job??

Consider the job applied for! I can think of few jobs I get more satisfaction out of than feeding and watering plants. It’s one of my very favourite occupations. — Gary Cooper

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8 I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

And what a polar bear you’d make!!  I also hate hot, humid weather..I was born and raised (if you could call it that) in Toronto.  It’s an absolute swamp pit in the summer.  I’d hide out in the dark and cool basement all day just to survive. Of course, now I live in beautiful Victoria, B.C. on Vancouver Island. If you don’t like the weather you just wait five minutes……I remember that in one day we got sun, rain, hail, wind, and then it finally settled into a calm freezing rain.  This spring has been WET. Is it just me or does anyone else notice how harsh the sun has gotten in the past few years…..I can barely stand to be out in it.  Must be the ozone layer thing. Looks like when summer arrives we may be in for a drought.  Guess I’ll just have to hand water those 50 million plants I’ll have outside by then.  Anyone need a job?? Annie (and plants, in recliner, restocked with ice cream,)

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<snippety snippety snip Oooooo. Freezer. Nice and cool like home-world. 8

I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful I find it. I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. — Gary Cooper

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: Arthur, : : CHILL : : Thomas I be cool.                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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: I’ll go halves on a cold store with you, Arthur. I cannot : *abide* hot weather and the damper it is, the more hateful : I find it. : : I think I was meant to have been born a polar bear. Well, maybe not a polar bear; they’re working for the CokeCola Company these days; you know, that monolithic corporate entity that Peter Sellers almost had to answer to in the Kubrick film Dr. Strangelove. Talk about hot days!                                         Best Wishes,                                         Arthur

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Yikes! Its 80+ degress F. out here and the sun is strong. I don’t like this. I am hot and sweaty already and the summer hasn’t even begun yet. The weather was fine yesterday, 70+ degrees, cloudy, comfortable. Now its hot and I am pissed, creeping about in the shadows in a futile effort to avoid that burning sunlight. I bet I was jinxed by some recent postings from those mentally twisted sun-lovers, those evil sun-tanned folk that soak up those UV-rays in a dastardly attempt to mutate into silicon skinned humaniods. This weather is all their fault, I just know it! Its their revenge for that wonderful blizzard this winter. And don’t start up with that subjectivist crap! Its not subjective! Hating hot weather and excessive sunlight is the normal state of a healthy mind. Just look at human history. We were quite content living in the Ice Age with lots of big fuzzy mammals. But NOOOOOOOOOO, Mother Nature had to change the climate. We then spent the next few thousand years reaching deeper and deeper into the polar regions to get away from the heat. Now even that isn’t good enough considering Ozone depletion. This is a cosmic conspiracy I tell you! In case you can’t tell, this heat really antagonizes my PD. It makes me panic like a lobster in boiling water. Like a bagel in toaster. Like a gremlin in a microwave. We should just cancel summer and go straight into fall. Hey God, where’s your complaint box? Or maybe I should sacrafice a bottle of sunblock to Ra or something? Who’s got the global thermostat? And if you think I’m upset now, just wait till our first heat-wave!                                         Best Wishes, (grumpily)                                         Arthur

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Question:

1.  Most junk mailers think they’re doing a public service. Don’t be so all-fired-up certain they’re *not* doing a public service. [...] Let’s face facts, nobody goes to the library to research what deoderant to buy, so the decision is largely based on what advertising has had the most effective.

That may be the basis for *your* decision. Personally, I use such sources as the net and Consumer Reports to find out about products. As far as I’m concerned, junk mailers are performing a public DISservice by helping to fill our world with garbage. So, while I applaud your efforts, and I’m concerned at how much crap goes on at public expense, I must remind you that *advertising is not evil*! It is a perfectly valid method of informing the public of one’s goods and services.

You’ve made quite a leap here. The poster was complaining about JUNK MAIL, not about advertising in general. I don’t care if people advertise; I just wish they would do so in a way which doesn’t directly contribute to our pollution problem (i.e. when I "throw away" or disregard a TV commercial, I don’t have to pay the trash man to haul it away, and it takes up no space at the town dump. A case could be made that commercials cause noise pollution, but I won’t be the one to make it here…) JUNK MAIL SUX!! — "Unisys has demonstrated the power of two. That’s their stock price today."        - Scott McNealy on the history of mergers in the computer industry.

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ONE MANS JUNK IS ANOTHER MANS TREASURE! Don’t get personal opinions in the way of having an open mind about BOTH the GOOD AND BAD, that these things can do.  This applies in any and all facets of life.  HAVE an opinion, it is your RESPONSIBILITY, but don’t hamper other peoples as well in trying to keep your own.  Who knows, one day you might change your mind. (Isn’t life great) I personally LIKE *SOME* of the junk mail I have gotten over the years, and have gotten a few good deals in that way.  On the other hand, most of it IS junk, but doesn’t this relationship apply to all of life and not just glossy paper with a postage paid stamp on it. (THINK ABOUT IT) I am sure most people have gotten some kind of use out of some of the JM they have recieved. (PLEASE NO FLAMES, I am just expressing some of my thoughts, good or bad) Christopher Walton

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That may be the basis for *your* decision. Personally, I use such sources as the net and Consumer Reports to find out about products. As far as I’m concerned, junk mailers are performing a public DISservice by helping to fill our world with garbage.

Hey, without junk mail, what would fill the inside back cover of Consumer Reports?  (the Selling It column) —      .sig under construction, like the rest of this campus.

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Anyone who’s worked in the advertising field (as I have) knows that the purpose of advertising is to enforce purchasing decisions already made.  Advertising is pretty weak at persuading people to make new buying decisions, great at making people feel glad about the ones they’ve already made.  Junk mail works best with people who enjoy receiving junk mail and who have responded to it in the past.  It has little benefit for those who resist its blandishments.  My feeling is, if you want it, you should be able to affirmatively request it; and if you don’t, it shouldn’t get sent. Bob Jacobson

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Don’t be so all-fired-up certain they’re *not* doing a public service. When you have a family of four to feed (as I do), you appreciate learn- ing about bargains and getting coupons.  

Don’t forget the guy in Washington State that takes pride in being able to heat his house for the winter solely by burning junk mail.  Not exactly pollution free, because it screws up the catalytic converter on wood stoves, but a neat story anyways.

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Don’t be so all-fired-up certain they’re *not* doing a public service. When you have a family of four to feed (as I do), you appreciate learn- ing about bargains and getting coupons.  The rest just goes into the trash (eh, recycling bin!).  My biggest complaint is that it’s the same damn set of coupons every week.  If you don’t happen to like Pizza Hut, too bad.  But once in a while, you’ll get Pollo Loco coupons (which our family *does* like), or other values, which is worth an occasional sort. Pollo Loco? "Crazy Chicken"? Oh, sounds delicious…

It is!  Have you tried it?  Instead of frying the bird, they char-broil it.  There is a whole host of imitators now! Actually, ARA runs a mexican fast food place at the University called "El pollo grande" (the big chicken)…

Probably an imitator.  Like they say, "the sincerest form of flattery …" The average American sees and ignores more than 2000 advertising mes- sages every day.  You oughta be used to it by now. But just because we’re used to something doesn’t mean we have to take it.  "You oughta be used to tax increases by now, so don’t complain"

Slightly different … you can *not* ignore a tax increase!  Trust me, I’ve tried! Let’s face facts, nobody goes to the library to research what deoderant to buy, so the decision is largely based on what advertising has had the most effective.  *It is true* that without advertising, you simply *would not know* about the very existance of the products you buy and use.  The companies that produce those products would go out of busi- ness.  Then you (or me, or others like us) would be out of work. Yeah! If food manufacturers and grocery stores didn’t advertise, we wouldn’t buy any food! (Hey, wait a minute…)

You’re ignoring a fundamental problem, even with grocery stores. Grocery stores litter the landscape like McDonald’s’es.  How is one going to get you to drive an extra ten minutes to come to *their* store if they don’t tell you they exist? Why should they pay tens of kilo-bucks to advertise on TV to the entire area, when for a mere centa-buck or two they can target just the neigh- borhood?  Then add a few money-saving coupons as extra incentive, and viola!  Customers show up! Word about products is accomplished through word of mouth and "Consumer Reports".

Actually, advertisers have a lot of respect for both of these methods. Word-of-Mouth is naturally considered superior, since it’s an objective opinion from a trusted friend, relative, or neighbor. But you’ll go out of business waiting for Word-of-Mouth to get started! Word-of-Mouth, albeit the most sought after and reliable, happens to be the *slowest* form of advertising in existance!  So you put up some billboards, send out some flyers, print up some coupons, and get some people to come in and *try the product*.  Then, if your product is good, these experimenters can get the ol’ Word-of-Mouth Ball rolling. As for "Consumer Reports," I can only say that they fall into the cate- gory of "Caveot Emptor", like everything else.  I have experienced, and have talked to people who have experienced, that very frequently if you are *intimately familiar with the products* that you *disagree* with what they say about them.  If you can’t trust them on things you know about, how can you trust them for things you *don’t* know about? (Altho, I would trust most of their auto surveys.  This information is not based on their employees’ possibly biased or un-informed opinions, but rather on surveys from their readers.) My point stands.  One reason most of us can live the life of luxury that we enjoy is because companies who create products use advertising to get people to buy them.  This creates jobs, which puts money into the hands of people, who can then go out and buy more products! — "We’re sorry, but the reality you have dialed is no longer in service. Please check the value of pi, or see your SysOp for assistance." UUCP: uunet!{hplabs,fiuggi,dhw68k,pyramid}!felix!asylvain

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My point stands.  One reason most of us can live the life of luxury that we enjoy is because companies who create products use advertising to get people to buy them.  This creates jobs, which puts money into the hands of people, who can then go out and buy more products!

All Hail, Conspicuous Waste!  Long live, Throw Away Society! Bill

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1.  *CALL* the DMA’s Mail Preference Service at their secret, unlisted number (212)768-7277 and ask to be listed in their Suppression File. Stay on the phone while the computer operator types your address in. If you leave a message they may just discard it. Call them a month later and ask if you’re listed.  

I called just now – the operator told me that she couldn’t enter my information over the phone – she told me to either write in requesting this or she could send me a form.  I asked for the form; I hope that it gets a better response than the letters did.         -= iain <=-     "a sysadmin kinda guy"

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%8.  When they ask for my name and address at Radio Shack, I tell them %firmly but politely, "For the purpose of your data base, my name is Joe %Tandy and my address is GPO, Fort Worth, Texas."  Radio Shack is one of %the few large junk mailers who can’t be bothered to maintain a suppression %file. I’ve been told one great thing about Tandy but I can’t confirm it.  Can anyone? Tandy/Radio Shack does NOT sell its mailing list and from what I’ve heard they have the largest in the States. %(c) 1991, Cameron Spitzer, San Jose, California Great article, Cameron!  Thank you! Zap — Zap Savage, Savage Research, Inc. "There’s a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like a fool."         -Steven Wright "It’ll never fly, Orville."         -Wilbur Wright

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