Question:

I fished with a ROFF lurker Sunday, a really good fisherman and tier, and we got rain, snow, and wind.  Both of us caught a few good fish and we enjoyed watching the guides and their sports in the Texas hole.  Two guys in one boat had a foul hooked double.  First time we’d ever seen that one.

I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

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I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

  Man, that’s disgusting.  You need to brush up on your style:)   I caught a fish last year on two nymphs, one fly in each corner of his MOUTH. That’s the way we westerners do things. With a little class.  I’ll bet you tie Parachute Adams’ on treble hooks, too. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

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I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??

Wow.  I’ve never seen that one before either! bruce h

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I’m assuming you don’t mean my version of a double – foul hooking a fish with *both* my nymphs… ??   Man, that’s disgusting.  You need to brush up on your style:)   I caught a fish last year on two nymphs, one fly in each corner of his MOUTH. That’s the way we westerners do things. With a little class.  I’ll bet you tie Parachute Adams’ on treble hooks, too.

Yeah, but I’ve noticed that if I leave off the tail, body, wings and even hackle from my treble Adams it snags ‘em just as well.  Frankly, I don’t think the fish can tell the difference…..

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I’m planning on having a really small group at the San Juan December 7-10. You are invited if you are reading this.  Join the Western clique.  We’re really not all that picky 2002 has been a pretty slow year for me, fishing wise, although I’ve had the good fortune to take some good trips and I have caught lots of good fish. Just not as many as expected in many cases.  Fishing, like many other pursuits, can sometimes be improved by managing one’s expectations. Even the San Juan, a veritable aquarium, has been slower than expected on the days I managed to get up there this year.  And while I was in Idaho and Montana, struggling to catch fish and enjoying everyone’s company, the San Juan was rocking, with the fish eating anything, apparently.  Did I mention that Indian Joe is a HOOT? I vowed to make the time to fish the Juan for a weekend or more and really walk around and concentrate on locating concentrations of fish for the December trip.  Of course it’s not too tough in that river but the fish do move around as the conditions change.  And I’ve never even seen the river as low as it’s flowing now as a result of our drought – 350 cfs.  Last weekend I fished Friday afternoon and all weekend. At the Western Clave, Jeff C mentioned to me that he had hoped for visible hatches and working fish and a puzzle to solve.  We really didn’t get it. We were casting to likely water and mostly blind, not casting to visible fish (except the bridges!) or rise forms.  At the San Juan, you can cast to working fish and throw everything in your box at them and not hook anything but the Tamarisk behind you for two hours.  Well, unless your initials are WL that is.  And other times, the fish are visibly feeding, you can identify pretty closely what they’re eating, and lo and behold, a few of them eat your presentations of imitations.  As somebody once said and I’ve repeated often, some days are electric. Friday afternoon was Electric.  Saturday was raining, cold and mostly windy and the fish still ate a good presentation.  I looked up and down the river and saw the other fly fishers waiting for a chance to get a drift or sitting on the river bank waiting it out.  Sunday dawn I was walking across the upper flats, intent on checking out an apparently trapped goose that I had spotted from my truck.  As I got closer and it got a little brighter outside, I could tell it wasn’t a goose.  The shotgun blasts kicked my brain into gear.  Decoy, hunters.  Wow.  I’ve seen a lot of shotgun shells there but I’ve never had a couple of camo guys stand up on the island in front of me and start blasting at some distant ducks.  Even more amazing was the fact that they weren’t bothered by the other twenty or so guys that arrived over the next couple of hours. The baetis hatch Sunday afternoon was really something to behold.  We were at the right place at the right time.  I think there was a debate here some time ago about whether or not cloudy conditions bring out the baetis.  At the San Juan it seems obvious.  I was extremely happy to be there. I fished with a ROFF lurker Sunday, a really good fisherman and tier, and we got rain, snow, and wind.  Both of us caught a few good fish and we enjoyed watching the guides and their sports in the Texas hole.  Two guys in one boat had a foul hooked double.  First time we’d ever seen that one. bruce h

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Question:

If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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You don’t want to know about Opie’s sex life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

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snip Well said Grasshopper. Dave

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Why would you want to understand it, and why do you hate America? Tim

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

It has been asked, "How should those who enter The path apply their minds?" All things are originally uncreated And presently undying. Just let your mind be free; You don’t have to restrain it. See directly and hear directly; Come directly and go directly. When you must go, then go; When you must stay, then stay. – Niu-t’ou Hui-chung (683-769)

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I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations). I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Who knows?   Best to ignore the perceived personalities, and just read the posts, or not, depending on your current inclination. It is rare to understand anyone, much less an electronic projection of someone, it is easier to simply accept some things. TL MC

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If you ever think you have figured this place out, or have a grip on the relative personas, you should be very concerned about your own mental state. jh

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

If you ever do understand this place, you will become bored, and wander off. — Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Nope, Saturday Night Live characters don’t make it.  Try Monty Python or Firesign Theatre references next time.

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Should take about four to six hours.  Any more than that, you got a real problem.  How ya doin’ so far? Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out. George Gehrke "the gent with keyboard button cuff links"

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out.

Darwin?  Isn’t he the guy inside the fish sign on cars? — remove all x and y’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

…clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Doh!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted…

Shut up you pompous, hypocritical sissy. p.s. Do I know you?

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I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations).

Chris you were a DEC Flyfishing notes guy? Don’t remember you… Flyfish AKA Dave the ordealmaster

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls… Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

Hey, a polite newcomer…see, you never know what’s gonna happen next…welcome aboard, and here’s an explanation…it’s really a really obscure reference to some stuff Dan Quayle said/did…remember the "potatoe" and "a waste is terrible thing to mind" stuff?   Well, it was my decidedly indirect way of implying that a fair amount of both substantive and trivial off-topic knowledge is helpful, if one wishes to engage in that aspect of ROFF, such as the political, er, discussions/riots.   As to the rest, it’s simply an-out-of-the-norm way of saying "hey, ROFF can be a strange place at times, and often as not, NOBODY understands everything," with some TV show catch phrases tossed in (see above).  Also remember (or learn) that ROFF, as a whole, almost never completely agrees on what’s funny, not funny, (in)appropriate, sick, SPAM, or much of anything else save two, or maybe even just one: we all seem to have a love of (fly) fishing (although what exactly defines "fly fishing" is often a source of disagreement, so maybe even that doesn’t even count), and on some level, like reading ROFF… TC, R

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Question:

Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO. …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?  

and they’ve changed the sheets. thanks for the advice peter. in passing the winter with wooly bugger hi-jinks on the watauga, i’v noticed that when drifting and twitching the fly, most of my fish took just as the bugger finished its "u" and started upstream.  btw…it’s good to know that the big belly i get naturally in my casts is good for something other than challenging my drift and mending abilities… jeff

That’s the hot corner.  Most of my fish come from that turn.  The fly slows down as it heads upstream, just like a natural.  They often pursue it across the base of the U and only hit it on the turn.  The across stream turn also is a good spot as well since it gives the fly the appearance of a fleeing minnow. yup, big bellies are good for something after all.  I keep telling SWMBO that all the time. Peter

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I make ‘em out of sparkle, pearl, chenille with some kind of flash in the white marabou tail.  silver and brass bead heads. Killer on spring smallmouth here in Ohio…..but this seems to be a spring/early summer color. Summer sees the green, blue, yellow……punk rocker colors. In the fall, those hmmmm, Colonial Williamsburg colors are effective, darker browns, greens and blacks…. smallmouth have always seemed a little fashion and style

Well of course, they are discerning fish.  :) Peter

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<PC wrote Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO.  …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?

speaking of the Pixie…. I have "discovered" an institution within shouting distance of the Pixie that has the best damn bbq sandwhiches up here in the High Country. They also serve grits waldo

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<snipped info on streamers Excellent info Peter.  Was a good reminder for not limiting myself to just one method. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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speaking of the Pixie…. I have "discovered" an institution within shouting distance of the Pixie that has the best damn bbq sandwhiches up here in the High Country. They also serve grits

The Pixie Motel, bbq sandwiches, grits?   You’re making me try harder to work this trip in. OBROFF:    I’ve come across a little rainbow trout version of the Clouser minnow.   I’m tying a few #4’s to send for the clave raffle if I can’t bring ‘em myself.   Haven’t tried them yet, but it seems a good idea. Joe F.

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Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

I only have one, its been out of print for years and it’s not tat great.  You’re right, there aren’t many.  The local shop just got one in but I forget the title.  I’m hoping for Father’s Day so I didn’t paw it too much.  I’ll see if I can get the title, Mastering the Streamer rings a bell. Peter

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For a book on streamer fishing, the classic is Bates’ Streamer Fly Tying and Fishing, which now has a new edition by the author’s daughter. One point worth mentioning about movement: Any fly hanging in the current will be perceived by the fish as "moving." George

I agree and they look good but I don’t pick up many strikes this way. Something to be worked on. Peter

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Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

The penny dropped.  Modern Streamers for Trophy Trout by Galloup & Linsenman Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly.

  I use this method very often, in fact almost all the times with excellent result  on sea trout that range from 2.5 to 5.5 pounds. I have seen numerous times these big trouts race for the fly for 30 ft. I fish in very clear water with streamer ranging in size from 2 to 5 inches long. Not too bad on atlantic salmon too. One move I make is when my line is thight in the current, I move my arm from front to rear thus giving a 3 feet motion to the fly. This seem to drive the fish crazy and when they hit, your arm stop as if you hit a rock. — Carol Dugas Caplan Quebec Canada

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Willi’s post got me thinking that a little fishing info posted to this group couldn’t hurt. We all have our favourite methods and I’d rate dries on a small stream as my tops, streamers in big water second, swing wets third and nymphing dead last.  Ken will attest that me and nymphing don’t get along.  There’s often discussion here about dries and nymphing but preciously little about streamer methods.  So here’s 2 cents worth, (CDN.) To state the obvious, streamers imitate small forage fish so they have to be presented in that manner.  Most streamer patterns need movement to change their profile to a small fish imitation.  At rest, they are too broad to effectively imitate anything.  Stripping is the obvious choice to keep a streamer moving, but with the right mending the current can be used as well. I use four methods; standard down and across swing, cross current mend, straight strip, and deep dead drift.  Pretty well everyone is familiar with the quartering downstream "down and across" but some of the others don’t get much print. Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly. The straight strip is very commonly used in drift boats and guides often call it "spanking the bank" but you can use it wading too.  As Willi pointed out, big fish often can be up tight in shallow water against the bank or rocks.  I caught a beauty last year on my cane using one of my mini patterns just inches from the bank doing this. Cast directly across stream, a few feet upstream of where you expect the big guy to be holding, wait a bit for the fly to sink and drift toward him, then when it seems about right, strip the hell out of the fly.  To the fish, it looks like a drifting minnow has suddenly spotted him and is now boogying out.  Talk about ringing the dinner bell. The last method, the dead drift, needs a weighted streamer pattern that has a natural profile at rest; like the Joe Penich’s Niagara Smelt shown on my site.  Wounded minnows are often swept along the bottom of runs so there’s no reason why we can’t do the same.  Using a fast sinking, sinktip line, cast upstream at the top of a deep run. Put in a big upstream mend to help sink the fly.  As the fly approaches directly across from you, pull in the slack and hang on. If you don’t get a hit, then put in a couple of sharp strips as the fly begins to swing.  That gives a fish the impression that the wounded minnow is still alive but in it’s death throes. Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO. Good luck Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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<snip very good stuff Though you mentioned it in passing, I feel a need to stress that one of the very best things about streamers (especially as compared to nymphs) is that there is rarely any doubt at all about the strike!  More often than not I don’t have time to set the hook when a fish takes a streamer.  That’s o.k. though because the fish generally does the job for you.  Trout take streamers below the surface the way they do hoppers on top; they smack them HARD! How about favorite patterns Peter?  The Muddler Minnow and the Woolly Bugger (please, those who don’t think of the WB as a streamer, spare me!) hardly need mentioning as their popularity is nearly universal, though I have never been fond of muddlers myself.  The Hornberg Special is probably my all time favorite and, naturally, best producer, with a hair wing Royal Coachman a distant second.  Mickey Finns, Gray and Black Ghosts and my own variations on the Thunder Creek series have also been very good producers.

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Trout take streamers below the surface the way they do hoppers on top; they smack them HARD!

Ya, I watched a brown take three shots at one of my minis.  Gotta hookup on the third.  Nearly as good as a dry. How about favorite patterns Peter?  The Muddler Minnow and the Woolly Bugger (please, those who don’t think of the WB as a streamer, spare me!) hardly need mentioning as their popularity is nearly universal, though I have never been fond of muddlers myself.  The Hornberg Special is probably my all time favorite and, naturally, best producer, with a hair wing Royal Coachman a distant second.  Mickey Finns, Gray and Black Ghosts and my own variations on the Thunder Creek series have also been very good producers.

I’ve always been partial to Mickey’s for landlocks, brookies and smallmouth.  I’ve also taken my fair share of smallies on wooolly buggers and and muddlers too.  I like to experiment with patterns and one of my most productive to date has been Joe’s Niagara Smelt.  I’ve also had very good luck with steelhead and salmon on my Rainbow Smelt. For browns, my mini and the "Little Trout" series have been the best. I’ve never fished the Hornberg or the hair wing Coachman.  I’ll have to give them a try. Peter

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Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes.

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I’ve never fished the Hornberg or the hair wing Coachman.  I’ll have to give them a try.

I’ll be bringing some Hornbergs to the clave.  Will begin tying them up tonight.        :)

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Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes.

Yup. I was introduced to cone head white woollies by Gary from Atlanta.  They work wonders with smallies too. Peter

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Wolfthing writes: I’ll be bringing some Hornbergs to the clave.  Will begin tying them up tonight.    :)

Sounds kinky to me, Wolfthing.  You’re gonna fit in real nicely with the NC contingent. d;0) Dave LaCourse

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Nice post Peter, What’s you favorite book on fishing streamers? Seems like there are hundreds of books on fishing nymphs & drys but I can’t see to find a good book on fishing techniques with streamers. Thanks, Sol

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For a book on streamer fishing, the classic is Bates’ Streamer Fly Tying and Fishing, which now has a new edition by the author’s daughter. One point worth mentioning about movement: Any fly hanging in the current will be perceived by the fish as "moving." George

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi’s post got me thinking that a little fishing info posted to this group couldn’t hurt. We all have our favourite methods and I’d rate dries on a small stream as my tops, streamers in big water second, swing wets third and nymphing dead last.  Ken will attest that me and nymphing don’t get along.  There’s often discussion here about dries and nymphing but preciously little about streamer methods.  So here’s 2 cents worth, (CDN.) To state the obvious, streamers imitate small forage fish so they have to be presented in that manner.  Most streamer patterns need movement to change their profile to a small fish imitation.  At rest, they are too broad to effectively imitate anything.  Stripping is the obvious choice to keep a streamer moving, but with the right mending the current can be used as well. I use four methods; standard down and across swing, cross current mend, straight strip, and deep dead drift.  Pretty well everyone is familiar with the quartering downstream "down and across" but some of the others don’t get much print. Some of the guys saw me use the cross current mend in NC.  Cast directly across stream then make a bit downstream mend, producing a big belly of line.  Point the mend at any structure you want to fish. As the current drags the belly, it’ll accelerate the fly downstream then across stream, then upstream.  The fly runs a "U" pattern across the stream.  Throw in a few strips to add movement.  Keep in mind that a fleeing minnow will head downstream or across stream rather than up as a big fish has the advantage going upstream.  Don’t worry about hookups with all that belly, the browns whack the fly so hard they hook themselves half the time.  It’s a real hoot watching the swirl made by a charging brown as he takes the shallow running fly. The straight strip is very commonly used in drift boats and guides often call it "spanking the bank" but you can use it wading too.  As Willi pointed out, big fish often can be up tight in shallow water against the bank or rocks.  I caught a beauty last year on my cane using one of my mini patterns just inches from the bank doing this. Cast directly across stream, a few feet upstream of where you expect the big guy to be holding, wait a bit for the fly to sink and drift toward him, then when it seems about right, strip the hell out of the fly.  To the fish, it looks like a drifting minnow has suddenly spotted him and is now boogying out.  Talk about ringing the dinner bell. The last method, the dead drift, needs a weighted streamer pattern that has a natural profile at rest; like the Joe Penich’s Niagara Smelt shown on my site.  Wounded minnows are often swept along the bottom of runs so there’s no reason why we can’t do the same.  Using a fast sinking, sinktip line, cast upstream at the top of a deep run. Put in a big upstream mend to help sink the fly.  As the fly approaches directly across from you, pull in the slack and hang on. If you don’t get a hit, then put in a couple of sharp strips as the fly begins to swing.  That gives a fish the impression that the wounded minnow is still alive but in it’s death throes. Beats the hell out of nymphing IMHO.

 …unless its being done at the Pixie Motel, eh?   thanks for the advice peter. in passing the winter with wooly bugger hi-jinks on the watauga, i’v noticed that when drifting and twitching the fly, most of my fish took just as the bugger finished its "u" and started upstream.  btw…it’s good to know that the big belly i get naturally in my casts is good for something other than challenging my drift and mending abilities… jeff

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I make ‘em out of sparkle, pearl, chenille with some kind of flash in the white marabou tail.  silver and brass bead heads. Killer on spring smallmouth here in Ohio…..but this seems to be a spring/early summer color. Summer sees the green, blue, yellow……punk rocker colors. In the fall, those hmmmm, Colonial Williamsburg colors are effective, darker browns, greens and blacks…. smallmouth have always seemed a little fashion and style – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try White WB’s sometime. Idon’t know why white, but trout will destru this color Wb in lakes. Yup. I was introduced to cone head white woollies by Gary from Atlanta.  They work wonders with smallies too. Peter

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Question:

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

This is an interesting question – may have missed it, but don’t recall that it’s been posed before.  No scientific or experience basis to make this statement, but I would say that if the line is stored out of the sun and away from excessive heat or cold, it ought to be in pretty good shape even after a number of years in storage. Mark Faulkner

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Forgive me if this has been covered before, but….  what’s the shelf life of middle and premium grade fly lines (e.g., Cortland 333, Scientific Anglers Ultra 3)?

I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. As an off-topic but perhaps relevant aside:  I  had the good fortune to do some fishing and hunting with Ed Zern back in the 1960s.  In his other life he was Creative Director of Geyer, Morey, Madden and Ballard, a big-time New York ad agency. I asked him about those strange greenish plastic collars on his two Labs.  He said "Oh, those are some experimental flea collars one of our clients gave me to try out.  They’ve been keeping fleas off my Labs for at least two years.  I’m sure they have someone working on that problem." Sure enough.  When flea collars appeared on the market a bit later, they were good for a couple of months. Might the same be true for fly lines? vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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UV light and heat are the killers if I understand things correctly.  The lines also loose their slick finish over time because there is friction from the guides.  My guess is that the lines should be fine as long as they haven’t been sitting next to a heater or left in the sun for a long time. << Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

  <<  I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. I guess I am brutal on my fly lines.  I can get a sinking line to last for a lot of years but I kill my dry lines within about two years or less.  That is based on fishing 60+ days per year but I still tear through them fast. Mike

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I have a fair collection of lines (more than I ever have mounted on reels). My solution has been to always put them away clean – coiled and tied with pipe cleaners – and in ziplock bags with all the air sucked out.  Figure that this will minimize effects of atmospheric polutants such as ozone. Keep them in dark color plastic tub (no light), and in a cool place.  Seems to have worked although I don’t have a control on this experement.  I keep even new lines in ziplock bags – cheap and figure it can’t hurt. air, since the boxes they come in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Hi Vince, I have seen them 20 years old and still OK. Probably not used much? I have also seen some ‘Commando Anglers’ wear out a line in a season. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com <snip I don’t know about "premium grade," but a greart many years ago, when – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was a a grad student (that was so long ago I’m now retired), I bought an HDH floating line from Herter’s for about three bucks. I used it for twenty or twenty five years, and it was still floating. vince norris  Do any of the chemical treatments in or on the line deteriorate from exposure to air, since the boxes they come in aren’t air tight?  I’m asking (obviously) because an area dealer has very good prices on old stock of Ultra 3 (original packaging — different from what it’s currently packaged in) and some other lines. Thanks very much for any insight. G. Weaver

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Keep them clean and conditioned, and even the $10 specials from walmart will last a long time. eventually they will phyisically wear out, but that takes a lot of fishing. by then, you’ll feel like you’ve *earned* a new line. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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Question:

For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6"  6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it.

When I was growing up without a father my next-door neighbor gave me flyfishing tackle and took me fishing. I’ll never forget him. You’ll be doing a very good deed. BTW, do you think maybe his mother has some additional reason for coming to the meeting?

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Stephen, From her demeanor, words, and actions, I believe she had a singular interest in the group; her son.  Besides, if your looking for a new pair of track shoes you don’t go looking in the brogan box. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -BTW, do you think maybe his mother has some additional reason for coming to the meeting?

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Stephen, From her demeanor, words, and actions, I believe she had a singular interest in the group; her son.  Besides, if your looking for a new pair of track shoes you don’t go looking in the brogan box.

Sounds like she may have come to the right place anyway. — Charlie…

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I attended the inaugural meeting of a new fly fishing club here in Fredericksburg VA last Wednesday night.  About 15 guys my age showed up, talked fly fishing and passed around photos of a bunch of 8 to 10 LB. stripers caught in the Rappahannock right under Rt. 1.  Also joining the group was a single mom (thirty something and very attractive).  She came to learn about fly fishing so she could teach her 11 year old son and take him fishing.  She seemed to think fly fishing was the most wholesome sport she could think of (no offense but she hasn’t met this group).

        for a shot at mom, i’ll put up my 8′ 2wt thomas&thomas. wayno the relentless

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Stephen, From her demeanor, words, and actions, I believe she had a singular interest in the group; her son.  Besides, if your looking for a new pair of track shoes you don’t go looking in the brogan box. Wayne

        hold on man; you can’t forget who you are…you are a wayne, dammit, and that *stands* for something in this crazy world of ours. just walk over to her, look her in the eyes, and say:  "my name is wayne.  what color mercedes would you like to have?"         she’ll be putty in your hands. wayno, who knows what he’s talkin about, i mean!

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My son is seven and he likes his KidStart system. It’s an 8 ft two piece rod with a 6/7 line. System comes with the backing, fly line, leader, and the case. The reel that comes with, is plastic. Nice for entry level anglers.

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Stephen, From her demeanor, words, and actions, I believe she had a singular interest in the group; her son.  Besides, if your looking for a new pair of track shoes you don’t go looking in the brogan box.

NEVER underestimate the subtlety of a woman. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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OK Wayno, I’ll bet it’ll be dark blue or black with leather upholstery, looks better on a blonde.  Sorry George, I don’t think this gal has ever had to sleep in a tent! Wayne the damsel in distress rescuer To fish is human…to release divine. Now how did Wayno know the meeting is held a block away from the Mercedes/Volvo dealer? Could it be he keeps a little black book with the names of all the Mercedes dealers? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hold on man; you can’t forget who you are…you are a wayne, dammit, and that *stands* for something in this crazy world of ours. just walk over to her, look her in the eyes, and say:  "my name is wayne.  what color mercedes would you like to have?" she’ll be putty in your hands. wayno, who knows what he’s talkin about, i mean!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I attended the inaugural meeting of a new fly fishing club here in Fredericksburg VA last Wednesday night.  About 15 guys my age showed up, talked fly fishing and passed around photos of a bunch of 8 to 10 LB. stripers caught in the Rappahannock right under Rt. 1.  Also joining the group was a single mom (thirty something and very attractive).  She came to learn about fly fishing so she could teach her 11 year old son and take him fishing.  She seemed to think fly fishing was the most wholesome sport she could think of (no offense but she hasn’t met this group). For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6"  6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

   Check out "the poor mans fly fishing catalog" Cabela’s. Two of the short and extremely easy to cast. They longer stiffer rods are great if you are well coordinated, hefty, and expierienced. 11 year olds come in all sizes and muscularity but generally are of the smallish akward type and need all the help they can get from the rod.                                                              John Popp                                                          in Sanford Fl.

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I agree with Charlie. Physically he should be able to handle it. But I wouldn’t just give it without some ritual. Id make him earn it like this: Tell him and mom that you have this outfit, you think it might fit him but you wonder if he can handle a "man’s" outfit. Suggest a session with Mom and son at a park pond. She watches (the woman is for another time). Show him how to cast. Whatever happens, say it looks like he can handle a "man’s" outfit ( or at least "grow" into it) and give it. Show him how to carry it, break it down, and carefully put in sock etc. I hope Im not being too patronizing.  You are doing a good thing. This kid is not living with a dad so he’s going to have too handle a lot more than a "man’s outfit" on his own, but you can create with this one generous act a positive initiation ritual and talisman of manhood. Our Native American brothers understand this stuff real well.  Good luck , your message says you have the right heart for this. Dave

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I attended the inaugural meeting of a new fly fishing club here in Fredericksburg VA last Wednesday night.  About 15 guys my age showed up, talked fly fishing and passed around photos of a bunch of 8 to 10 LB. stripers caught in the Rappahannock right under Rt. 1.  Also joining the group was a single mom (thirty something and very attractive).  She came to learn about fly fishing so she could teach her 11 year old son and take him fishing.  She seemed to think fly fishing was the most wholesome sport she could think of (no offense but she hasn’t met this group). For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6"  6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

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For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6"  6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it.

I think a 6wt would make a good all around starter set. — Charlie…

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I think that he should easily beable to use that rod…My 8year old uses an 6 1/2 foot 4wt and does very well with it. Jon

Clipped – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6"  6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

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For this 11 year old I would certainly be willing to give up my 8′ 6" 6 wt. Cortland Fairplay beginner’s outfit to get him started.  What should an 11 year old be able to handle?  Redington and others make great starting outfits but I don’t think much money is available here.  BTW, my Cortland outfit will be offered free if you guys think he can handle it. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

Wayne: My sons (11 through 14) all handle a 8.5′ 5 wt. just fine.  I got them a 7.5′ 3wt. Cabella outfit for Christmas but I wonder if the 3 wt. might be a little light for their casting ability.  I’ll find out in a couple of months!  I think that 11 year old will do very well with your 6 wt. outfit as long as he gets some good instruction. –Stan

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Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

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When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

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When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

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A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

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Question:

I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

      My favorite fishen hole is in a little canal off the St.John’s river. right under the I-4 bridge as it rises to cross the river and people are always pulling off 17/92 where it goes along side Lake Monrow. They get used to it. If you got room to cast, the water looks right go fishen.                                                          John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think.

Yea, it is nice this time of the year, it’s the other six months I get tired of. I commute over a 7800′ mountain in some of the most incredible snow storms you can imagine! I guess the hard Winters are what makes this time of year especially enjoyable.  I can’t believe I have waited so long  (14 years) to take up fly fishing, late bloomer I suppose!  So much time to make up for, but I am up to the job!!! Rich

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Rich, The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !" — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Set up hard on a 3 inch brook trout sending it into the windshield of a passing car…. "Jeeeeeezus Martha….Didja see THAT bug…criminy  !"

    For a moment I thought this was a response to the "Frying Pan, Roaring Fork" thread. Reminds me of some of the lower water on the Pan. Tom Christian External Technology Program Hewlett-Packard Laboratories 3404 East Harmony Road Fort Collins, CO 80528-9599 Phone: (970) 898-3531 FAX: (970) 898-6198

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My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks.

I don’t think fish can hear the noises that we on the bank can hear but they can feel vibrations and river bed disturbance. Some of my best fish have been caught immediately under a UK motorway bridge (a very busy dual carriage way road).  The noise drives me up the wall but the fish don’t seem to notice it – at least, they favour the deep pool below / under / above the bridge.  But they know all about it if I stumble through the pool in the dark in my studded waders… Street lights are also a problem for those of us who fish for sea trout by night. I’ve heard that migratory fish are intimidated by bridges and other over-water structures.  Anyone have any knowledge / theories on this? — Phil Jones

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The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams.

Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

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Last August I was on highway 50 heading back to SF from Tahoe.  This road runs along the (North Branch?) American River which looked fishable along certain spots.  It’s a two lane highway with loads of traffic and about 40′ above water level.  Parked alongside the road I could spot several trout beside a large boulder less than 5 feet from shore.  Traffic didn’t seem to be bothering them.  Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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This is a tough time of year to fly fish any of the Sierra streams.  It will get better around the end of June.   — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The water in the Carson is too rough for a little vibration from a truck or car to bother the trout.  Both forks of the Carson are good fly fishing streams. Almost too rough for a newbie! Tried it with a weighted wooly bugger and single split shot. Never even felt the bottom!

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I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water.  My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

What’s the water like?  Whitewater drowns out other noise VERY well.  I’ve fished on the Wilson in Oregon, highway 6 runs right along the river.  Standing near the whitewater with a tree or two to hide the cars and you’d think you were in the middle of nowhere.  On the other hand, the sound of the water can get "deafening" after a while.  I’m used to it, but my brother was visiting and had to leave for a bit to let his ears stop ringing. Why don’t you go try it and see?  If you like it, stay, if not try to find somewhere else. Later,      - Ken

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What’s the water like?

Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!  

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What’s the water like? Right now it’s it’s fairly fast due to snow melt off, in fact I think it’s too deep for good fishing although I have tried it up river a bit.  I will definately try it as a bit at a time.  I figure it will be  great way to unwind on the way home from work this summer!

That’s the key… it’s right on the way home from work!    I used to have that situation with a beautiful little mountain lake.  It was a mile down a dirt road, right on the way home from work.  I brought my float tube to work every day.  If the weather got shitty and I didn’t get to fish for a day or two on the way home, I started getting very irritable — withdrawl symptoms! You’re lucky to have a place like that, I think. Bob Scott

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Rich,     The fish are probably acclimated to the road noise and not bothered by it at all. I’ve fished spots much closer to the road and I’m sure I’m not the only one in the group to get spooled on the back cast (a Ford in my case).             Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I live in Lake Tahoe, Ca., and everyday on my way to and from work I drive by miles of the Carson River.  I have only just started flyfishing this season and have not had much chance "yet" to stop and try some of the still water. My question is this; will the road noise impact fishing on rivers such as this?  If so, what is a comfortable distance from the road to the river for the fish?  At places, the road is approx 40 feet horizontal and about 35-40 feet vertical distance from the river and is fairly busy w/ cars and large trucks. Rich

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.          I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

HEY TELL ME ABOUT IT!THE WEATHER HAS GOT EVERYBODY STIMIED.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE GUIDES WHO MAKE A LIVING OUT OF IT.LIKE I SAID I WAS WADING THE OTHER DAY WHEN I CAUGHT THOSE REDS.I OWN A BOAT BUT IT HASN’T BEEN IN THE WATER IN 2 MONTHS!AND WE’RE HAVING SOME GOOD TIDES RIGHT NOW.I LIVE ON A BARRIER ISLAND AND THE RAIN TODAY PUT A FOOT AND A HALF OF WATER IN THE STREETS.HAD A FRIEND OVER FROM SANFORD THIS PAST WEEKEND AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE WATER WAS WAY UP OVER THERE.OH WELL,IT CAN’T KEEP UP TO MUCH LONGER,BUT LIKE YOU SAID THEN WE GET THE SUMMER TIME DONT FLEECE CATCH& RELEASE                JON

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HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

         I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

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I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

      No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON       No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

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Question:

Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

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This is from the Virtual Flyshop http://www.flyshop.com/Bench/index.html WD-40 Submitted by: David Grossman from Durango , Duranglers Fly Shop, Durango Colorado Originated by Mark Engler RECIPE HOOK: TMC 2487 Size 18-24THREAD: 8/0 Chocolate, Gray, OliveTAIL: Wood DuckABDOMEN: ThreadTHORAX: Dubbed Hare’s Ear (match thread)WINGCASE: Wood DuckHEAD: Sparse thread<PictureInstructions: The thread is tied in and advanced backward to barb point. A small clump of Wood Duck feather tips is tied in shank length and the butts are not trimmed. The thread is advanced forward over the butts covering them completely, but maintaining a very slender abdomen. Pull the Wood Duck butts back and dub a bulky thorax. The Wood Duck butts are then tied in over the large thorax as a wingcase and a very small head finishes the fly. Best in Chocolate Brown (#24) Hareline Dubbing. Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

begin 600 Wd40.jpg <encoded_portion_removed end

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Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

Very simple and effective fly. Hook: TMC 2687 #18-22   Tail: Mallard or woodduck flank Abdomen: Chocolate Rabbit fur Wingcase: Same feather as tail   Thorax: Chocolate Rabbit fur Note: Can be tied in black or grey also. (I’ve never used anything but Chocolate)

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Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

Hi ! Phil Look at:  http://www.visi.com/~mpv/flyfishing/nymphswap/wd40.html or http://www.flyshop.com/scripts/flies/details.cfm?flyname=wd%2d40 I wish this helpful denis

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Question:

Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

There’s a lake in the Point Reyes National Seashore that allegedly has some trout in it (Bass Lake), although I don’t know anyone who has actually fished it. Lagunitas Lake in the Marin Municipal Water District is stocked and artificial lures, no barbs, only. Some of the other lakes in the same area attract lots of bait fisherman. No stream fishing available in the area that I know of. Surf fishing with a fly rod?  Can’t say I’ve ever seen it done, but can’t say I’ve been looking either. Closest stream fishing (steelhead) would be the Russian River. — There is no such thing as a dumb question, but there IS such a thing as a dumb answer – I’ve given some.

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Try the small gas station / fishing shop on the road between Petaluma and Bodega.  George will tell you about fishing the area -especially Tomales bay.  Look on the map for Walker Ck.- which is a misnomer, but hal local currency.  If he is in the phone book, idt will be on BOdega Hiway, I athink. He is guiding on athe Russian R as well. Regards, Cliff

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suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas.

Depends on how close is close. . . Most of the coastal rivers/streams are not open to fishing in that area, until you get up to the Russian River to the north.  There is good quality perch fishing at that time.  There are 2 or 3 guys who work at Western Sport Shop in San Rafael who i’ve seen out there each spring.  Their number is 415-456-5454. I’d ask for Gene or Noel.  They’ve got some patterns worked up which produce pretty well.  They’re real good on the whole area, too. re: other post The Bass Lake ponds in Pt. Reyes Natl Sea Shore are fun to walk to, but pretty fishless for about the last 10 years. *                                                     *

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Quoting brande from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area    <early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any    <suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or    <anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. David – You should may be able to catch surf perch off the beaches up there. Also, Russian River is just to the north.  Not too sure of all the specifics as I haven’t lived in NorCal in quite a few years. Jim Carlisle

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Planning a visit to some friends in the Bolinas/Stinson Beach area early in April.  Thought I’d take my flyrod.  Anybody have any suggestions?  I’d be interested in fishing surf or small streams or anything in between, as long as it was close to Bolinas. Thanks, David

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