Question:

..by coincidence, and when someone posted about the tattoo convention  I decided to spend Friday checkign it out. Anyone have anything to say about the seminars that day   I lucked out and will be staying at a friends house just right up the street….

Response:

..by coincidence, and when someone posted about the tattoo convention  I decided to spend Friday checkign it out. Anyone have anything to say about the seminars that day   I lucked out and will be staying at a friends house just right up the street….

Strange that you post to both of my two favorite newsgroups AND you’re in my neck of the woods. The seminars are listed on the convention’s site, http://www.evolutiontattooconvention.com/indexsem.html No opinion on the seminars for friday, except the history presentation would be educational rather than the last two seminars which are performances for entertainment purposes. fr0glet

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..by coincidence, and when someone posted about the tattoo convention  I decided to spend Friday checkign it out. Anyone have anything to say about the seminars that day   I lucked out and will be staying at a friends house just right up the street…. Strange that you post to both of my two favorite newsgroups AND you’re in my neck of the woods. The seminars are listed on the convention’s site, http://www.evolutiontattooconvention.com/indexsem.html No opinion on the seminars for friday, except the history presentation would be educational rather than the last two seminars which are performances for entertainment purposes.

Mmm one more thing I found on the convention site, 2 decent drum&bass DJ’s if you’re into electronica at all. Nitsuj and Slantooth are both from the 360bpm crew in Seattle, excellent beats. Don’t know about the rest of the DJ’s they have lined up. Sadly the best DJ from the 360bpm crew won’t be there, Zacharia. Also NO FRICKIN EMCEES!!! fr0glet

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<< Strange that you post to both of my two favorite newsgroups AND you’re in my neck of the woods.   hmmm am I stalking you unconsciously?   what particular set of woods is your neck in? I just caught on – you post in the herp group (snakes not VD).  Tiny world. I had seen your posts in the other group, but since I tend to check each group one after another, I just blurred them…      You don’t post in the alt.binaries.gaynazi-flyfishing group also do you? I am in Portland, driving to Seattle in the morning….

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fr0glet wrote… << Strange that you post to both of my two favorite newsgroups AND you’re in my neck of the woods. hmmm am I stalking you unconsciously?

Sweet!! We need more stalkers around here. Lish hogs them all. what particular set of woods is your neck in?

The Skagit Valley woods, further north. You don’t post in the alt.binaries.gaynazi-flyfishing group also do

you? rec.outdoors.fishing occasionally But uh… my ISP doesn’t carry any gaynazi groups I am in Portland, driving to Seattle in the morning….

I doubt I’ll be at the convention, else I’d offer to meet. I’ll be in Portland celebrating at a wake for my mother. Cheers! fr0glet

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I’m sorry to hear about your mother… Mine is still recovering from a brain tumor she had removed 6 months ago; knowing how difficult even thinking about losing your mother can be, i can’t imagine how hard that is for you. greg

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f Sweet!! We need more stalkers around here. Lish hogs them all.         i’m quite sure i don’t know what you’re talking about.         besides, MY stalkers GIVE me stuff. & they don’t know where i live. is that the best or what?#!? lish                                                "please don’t talk. 36.9% / 31                                                RANA 125 / 68

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I’m sorry to hear about your mother… Mine is still recovering from a brain tumor she had removed 6 months ago; knowing how difficult even thinking about losing your mother can be, i can’t imagine how hard that is for you. greg

Glad to hear your mother is in recovery, count your blessings every single day. fr0glet

Response:

..by coincidence, and when someone posted about the tattoo convention  I decided to spend Friday checkign it out. Anyone have

anything to say about the seminars that day   I lucked out and will be staying at a friends house just right up the street….

Do tell what you thought of the convention. My roommate went and said it suuuucked… fr0glet

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<< Do tell what you thought of the convention. My roommate went and said it suuuucked.. well…anytime I spend $20 to get into anywhere I make it a point to try and find the positive so that I don’t sit around pissed about not having that $20 back.      It was almost entirely tattooists, a few piercers and a couple of shirt and sticker booths. If you were going for a tattoo it would be a decent place to shop around, take a look at the wide spectrum of tattoo styles and quality. I picked up a few cards for future reference.  I imagine that if you are intimidated with walking into a shop off the street that this would be a good place to go. I saw some great stuff there.      I also saw some things that distressed me. Without getting specific, I saw some equipment handling and bandage work that seemed less than appropriate. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to try and impose a standard on a building full of tattooists, but I suspect by the end of the weekend some of their peers  probably set them straight.      I was hoping that there might be some equipment sales but this show catered primarily to the tattoo consumer. I did get to see a number of other lefties work though…      greg

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Do tell what you thought of the convention. My roommate went and said it suuuucked..

I wasn’t overly impressed. I felt like I paid $20 just to look at different people’s portfolios. It was also very hot, crowded and parking was a nightmare with the tall ships show just down the street. Some of the music was ok, but you couldn’t escape it. It was very difficult to have a conversation in a normal tone of voice anywhere in the place.

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Look up some of these guys: http://runarena.com/cgi-bin/ra?id=friedturd hella kewl ppl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..by coincidence, and when someone posted about the tattoo convention  I decided to spend Friday checkign it out. Anyone have anything to say about the seminars that day   I lucked out and will be staying at a friends house just right up the street….

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Question:

Woolly Buggers. Weighted, fished slow and deep… /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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I like to use a bead head green cadis larvae in PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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What is the recommended Fly for the Winter Months in the Northeast for Brown Trout?

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There are many different patterns that are used for Browns in the Northeast.  One that I really like is the Glo-bug.  There are many Creeks that have spawnig fish such as Steelhead during the winter months.  A Glo-bug is always a good bet for winter fishing. Good Luck, Forrest Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com Before you buy.

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Question:

 ______  snipped barbarian verbal pictographs –             only to the like-minded. Our private strictures            answer to a vision that encompasses a practical            conduct, an aesthetic, and an ethic which is to say,             I suppose, that it is a philosophy. The multiple            nymphs affixed to my leader are the kind of             barbarism another fisherman might handle only with            tongs. I string them up without a second thought." will  be a long process) to slowly emulsify your Plural mind into a grand instrument of olympic proportions and singular thinking. May you discover the Single Action Fly Fishing System that does not include indicators and gang banging. May your leaded nymphs always hang up and may you always not have enough flies.   Really enjoyed this post.  I am haunted by this singular life –   —   Mr. G.   http://www.gink.com/html  (Come, visit)   One log per person.

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[deleted] will  be a long process) to slowly emulsify your Plural mind into a grand instrument of olympic proportions and singular thinking.

[deleted] Ask not for whom the bug trolls George. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Question:

Anyone from New Brunswick that could tell me where on the Miramachi is a good place for fly fishing?   Have wheels, will travel, FAR  :-) — TRAIL BLAZER Webpage – http://www.trailblazerproducts.com

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Anyone from New Brunswick that could tell me where on the Miramachi is a good place for fly fishing?  

The Miramichi system comprises more than 1,000 miles of salmon water therefore under special controls.  So FF is good almost anywhere but access is the main problem for visitors.  In NB you must also employ a licensed guide on salmon rivers. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

Try rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Sorry can’t help you with the hatch.

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: Folks, : Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the : address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. : Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. : BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine : lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing. rec.outdoors.fishing.fly rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying

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Folks, Is there a flyfishing newsgroup? If so, would most appreciate the address. I can’t seem to get my server to list all the available groups. Thanks and would really appreciate e-mail. BTW, anyone know what kind of hatch might be going on at a subalpine lake (9,000) in western Montana? This for a novel I’m writing.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -[snip] Now pardon me while I go and bake this Steelhead.  The only one I kept this year out of thirty released. Sincerely, Mr. Gink — MZ          You should be commended for releasing 29, not admonished for keeping one.Seems to me that you might be better to lambast someone who threatens the existence of the population by unchecked and uncontrolled unethical outlaw activity. The only real sin in using a resource is in waste or destruction of it. The resposibility that comes with the right of use is to insure protection from waste and destruction. Careful management (by management I don’t mean stocking programs) t

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a steelhead let alone caught one – steelhead are extrememly resilent; mortalities are low with all sorts    of tackle; in BC steelhead for hatchery brood are kept for week and even   months and mostly caught with hook and line; mortality is less than    5% well under – for a good steelheader 30 a year isn’t a large number – chances are of the 29 George released none died So while what you say is nice it doesn’t relate to the post. Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -. I probably never visit that place again, for fear that I may slip and mention that I actually use HOOKs to catch fish. I not making any comparisons between he and you, mind you. Oh, I love the Gink, by the way.                                     Tight lines,                                     Stephen Di Cerbo

Response:

I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death.

All too often, c&r is used as a way to "fish more," and feel good about it.  More and more, I have heard people say that if they were keeping fish on a prolific stream, they might be done fishing in less than an hour, but if they release everything, they can fish all day.  Most of them accept that c&r mortality is probably around 10%, but believe that their personal rate is much lower, like 1%.  Some of them learned to flyfish about a year ago. Fishing less can be difficult, but face it, catching 50-100 fish in a day sounds a lot like gluttony, IMHO.  There’s no reason to catch more fish when you’re releasing them than you would if you were keeping them (is there?).  It’s more difficult to be sure, since you’re not restricted by law, but by self-discipline, but it can make for a more relaxed day when you’re not trying to see how many fish you can catch in a day. CQ

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IN support and response of George and others I too forward some opinions. Heritage is but an eliquant excuse.  I believe that within the FFing community those who take a fish or two are considered as unholy.  Many threads have been spun on this topic i know.  THe point I wish to make is that the users of ANY resource are diverse.  The chance to keep fish is what fuels some, and the chance to C&R others.  What must be remebered by all us is the resource. Many different management stategies have been tried across north america, some working and some not.  The C&R strategy is but one.  I think as we sit and look at others and their use within a strategy that moderation and toleration are required.  A quote to potententially contemplate "Anyone can manage the resource.  It’s managing the users that presents the problem" Aldo Leopold. Something else to consider on this topic is the basic population structure of a fishery.  To look at the number of any one age of fish graphically sees many young and few old (or small/large).  THis is the basis for the slot limits some of you may know so well.  This method allows for both C&R volentary or regualted as well as kill, always keeping the population in mind. Finally to end this rant, FF’ers are but one of the multitude of fishers out there.  We tend to fish streams and fish for trout and that’s where our world ends.  In Canada, Ontario where I live each spring on any lake whihc holds pickerel (Walleye) a floatila of boats forms whihc one could walk across (in certain places).  These anglers do not sport flyrods and do intend on taking fish home.  So then in looking at all fishermen of all types, I would put forward the thought that keeping fish is "what’s done" and C&R is still a mystery to most. What I advocate is a concern for the resource by each induvidual.   Understanding whats going on within a system allows for true concern and protection of any system.  To just do something because it’s the "norm" is not the way to manage or use a resource. Thoughts to consider every time one goes fishing.  The act of wading may be of greater concern then catching a realesing or keeping a fish.   Further that the fish most of use seek are "naturalized", that is with little exception rainbows came from west slope drainges (i.e. the pacific), browns came from germany and brookies from the north and east. The fish we seek are aliens which forced out the natives.   Don’t get me wrong, I love to fish, and fish for rainbows, and browns, these are just things to consider. Ian

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well said; I agree completely. it’s time to move beyond a simple C&R vs C&K debate and find ways of returning quality to the experience. And who gets to define Quality of Experience ?  I could catch a 15 pounder from the Frying Pan river and have zero QOE. TimW There was a time when openning day on the Battenkill was an event! People arrived the evenning before, built fires, drank some, swapped stories…now days you are very lucky to find a fisherman on the Battenkill, much less catch a fish…in fact VT Fish and Game have been trying to complete a creel study on the river but have not been able to survey enough fisherman…because the fisherman aren’t there!  Now, a big part of the Battenkills problem has been the 12 fish limit on the river and live bait fisherman killing their limit.  There is no quality experience left for anyone…period!  Somewhere out there is the balance that will restore the quality of experience for all fishers…being absolute about any one agenda..other than doing what is right for the fish…is not going to return the quality fishing experience to the Battenkill.

Extremely interesting to me.   I might have to give the Battenkill a whirl, sounds like my kind of river. Give me the possibility of a fish, however remote, and solitude over many fish and fishermen any day of the week. TimW

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Nice post,

Yes, it was….. but Catch and Kill is far from the greatest threat to our fisheries.

I would say amen to that. In fact I think one could argue that management of a fishery may well require some catch and kill to maintain a healthy population.

It will require much more than that.  It will require a whole different approach.  Lotteries, moratoriums, and other methods of reducing the usage of our trout waters are needed to reduce habitat degradation and to promote renewal of wild stocks. But lets talk *Heritage* for a moment.  Lets talk about the Heritage to cut the forest, mine the mountains and use our rivers for sewers. We pass off these heritages as *Rights*…I find it very difficult to accept from some of the people that post to this newsgroup their obsession with catch and release, and their unwillingness to be equally militant regarding the damage done by industry to our streams.

I too find it difficult to accept this near-religious fervor many hold for the "Sacred Cow" (C&R), especially when the real damage to our waters continue unabated. I think C&R itself has contributed more than many of us would care to admit to the degradation of many trout waters.  It has created a false sense that because we C&R we in doing so commit no harm, so we may go and do as we please.  I know of at least 2-3 C&R only waters that today absolutely suck as fisheries, because the bottoms are all ripped up, the banks all pounded down and the fish C&R’d to death. I’m not advocating C&K here.  What I am advocating is a kinder & gentler approach to how we view our rivers, and what we as fishers are doing to them.  We need to lighten up. </c — Chaz Clover "Hemoroids. There, I said it!"

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is my view that although Catch and Kill is viewed by many as ‘A Heritage’ to a right to kill is in fact rightfully going the way of the passenger pigeon and bison mentality.  Like it or not.  This is not to say that taking fish to eat that are within the legal limit is wrong. It is getting to be tougher or harder to justify the taking under the old ruse of need.  As our wildlife inventories decrease daily under the weight of a burgeoning population explosion, the concept begins to sink in its own quicksand

Question:

Mike:   The best Fly rods I use here in Oregon aren’t Sage or Orvis. I feel the best buy is either a Diamondback (Stowe, VT) or a Powell Rod (Chico,CA). Both of these rods can be purchased from $325 to $385 and the warranties are great… Ralph Glazier South Fork Fly Fishing Alsea, OR.

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I recently aquired a fly rod in an aluminum case. The rod is in a cloth case that has the name Lyon and Caulson, Buffalo NY. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this rod or if the company is still in buisness. I don’t fish, so I’d like to get rid of it if anyone is interested. The rod appears to be in perfect shape. It has "Regent #103" just above the handle. If anyone knows anything about it or is interested in it please E-Mail me. Thanks. Rob

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Question:

Hello, I am new to this newsgroup and fly fishing.  Please provide me with any information on fly fishing in south central Pennsylvania.  Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Tight Lines, Wendel

Response:

Head for the Yellow Breeches near Carlisle, PA.  It’s beautiful and it’s convenient…in fact too convenient on weekends wwhen way too many folks show up.  My suggestion, take a day off from work and check it out.  Also, be sure and swing by Yellow Breeches Outfitters. Some really nice helpful folks who can tell you where to fish, etc.  Cold Spring Anglers also helpful. Good luck, and have fun! Kevin

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Don’t neglect the top-notch smallmouth fishing in the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers.  I drive past the potomac (which I love) several times a year to tangle with those porkchops. Dave

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There are several streams in the area, some are stocked andd several have fly fishing only sections. A great reference is Penn. Trout Streams by Meck, available at most fly shops.E-mail me for more info.

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Question:

This subject is getting a lot of press with the identification of the disease in the Madison, so there is (finally) some information out there. The disease has been in Colorado for some time now and is getting worse. The culprit is almost certainly illegal stocking or (apparently in the case of Colorado) knowingly stocking with diseased fish.  There is evidence that the disease can be spread to other rivers via boots and other fishing equipment, but (at least according to Dick Vincent at the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department) it is not spread by wildfowl. Brook trout and salmon are also affected. I suspect now that a river as important as the Madison has been affected, we will see a lot more about this and other threatening diseases.

Response:

I would be interested in seeing the Washington Post article and the article mentioned in December from the Bozeman Gazette.  The posts I have been reading here about Whirling disease have really been upsetting.  My fishing buddies and I are trying to figure out what the best course of action for us would be.  Certainly no good plans have come from the "experts" as of yet (this would seem to be especially true in Colorado). Why hasn’t there been much yet in the fly fishing ‘literature’?  I haven’t read a thing in FR&R or Flyfisherman.  It would seem that research into why Browns and other unaffected species are immune would be the way to get this disease out of fish populations.  Does anyone involved in Fisheries Management or Biology at Montana State or at CU know anything about any research into the molecular biology/pathogenesis of this disease?  Please post!

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If this thing is protozoan and can potentially be spread by our wading boots, does anyone have any suggestions or know what we should be doing with our waders after fishing any of the potentially affected waters?  How long can the protozoa live out of water?  I often fish the Madison for a day or two, then go to the spring creeks in the Paradise Valley.  I would hate to be contributing to the spread of this disease into those waters, or any other for that matter!

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:   What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana : and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! : Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? The Washington Post article mentioned that cutts are susceptible to the disease. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

as u have pointed out whirling disease has made its way inot the wild population and indeed this is bad news.  as i have had it described to me this disease effects the delicate bone structure in juvinelle fish so when frightened/starteled they swim in small fast concentric circles instead of going for cover.  in addition, i have also heard that it is usually the result of the close confines of hatcherys that spread it, as u may also have heard the state of colorado fish & game department is releasing hatchery fish with this disease into some of their blue ribbon water, for what reason god alone knows and god aint speakin on this subject.  anyway i hope that the local TU chapters get involed in this an can help Mr. Vincent out.  from all reports he is a pretty good guy and knows a thing or two about how to maintain a wild trout population.  any news on this unhappy event is most welcome

Response:

disease has been discovered in the wild rainbow populations of Montana’s upper Madison. None of us here knows anything more than that just yet. But it continues to look bad. The outfitters haven’t really caught on, because the spring/winter fishing is good at this very moment. But whirling disease, apparently, only effects the tiddlers. In a few more seasons, once the current crop of bigger rainbows has died off from old age, there may be no more little fish to replace them. I wish I knew more about what’s going on. I’ve heard that Whirling disease made its way into wild rainbow populations in Colorado some time ago. Who down there in Colorado knows something about this? Which Colorado river systems are effected? How long has this been going on, etc?  Is the Colorado problem stable in any way, or is it getting worse? —

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: some time ago. Who down there in Colorado knows something about this? : Which Colorado river systems are effected? How long has this been RE: Whirling Disease I met with some guides here in the shop over Christmas and this was the issue at hand. It looks very grim and much worse then originally speculated.  The guides are accusing the Colorado DOW of a MAJOR cover up.  They have SCREWED up big time and since fishing is such a huge economical thing…noone will come straight.  The local guides are going to try to take matters into their own hands and we are in the process of recommending a wierd but hopefully effective idea to the DOW for the 96-98 regs…the idea is to close off feeder streams to all fishing during the rainbow spawn. The idea is to try to get some of these genetically farked up fish to produce (naturally) fish that are genetically immune to the disease.  It is a long shot, but better then no shot.   Apparently noone is talking but the rumour is that all year classes are missing in some of the major drainages (i.e. NO/0/nada/zip baby fishes) and that the spore (?) is present throughtout the state and that it originated in a hatchery in Utah. All colorado fishermen should pressure anybody and everybody they know for more information ans to support this closed rainbow spawning fishing season in the feeders… Tim Walker

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RE: Whirling Disease Apparently noone is talking but the rumour is that all year classes are missing in some of the major drainages (i.e. NO/0/nada/zip baby fishes) and that the spore (?) is present throughtout the state and that it originated in a hatchery in Utah. Tim Walker

  What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? —

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I understand that there was an article in the Washington Post today (1/4) on the whirling disease in the Madison.  I have not seen it, but would like to get a copy if anyone has one.

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:   What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana : and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! : Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? My understanding is that the cutts aren’t affected, allthough I haven’t conducted too many fry surveys and the misinformation in general does scare me.   Damned hatcheries indeed.  If only the folkes could to see fit to spend their tax monies on stream improvements and accept a greatly reduced general catch limit while the wild stocks rebound… Population estimates for colorado are around 5 million by the year 2000.  The state is just too fragile for this many people.  No, I don’t begrudge folkes for wanting to live here. Nor do I have any answers.   It frightens me to the core. Tim Walker

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: Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? It is a disease that affects the spine of rainbow trout fry that first showed up in the state hatcheries.  Now the dept of wildlife has introduced it into the waters and it is affecting the wild stock.   It is very, very serious and some think we are on the brink of a disaster of major proportions.  I really hope that some biologist in the know (Bob Golder…what’re you up to today) would really fill in the blanks. Tim Walker

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Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? Paul

Whirling disease is caused by a protozoan parasite that invades the cartilage of the skull, gill arches and spine.  It affects only trout and salmon.  Rainbow trout are the most seriously affected, browns (which probably coevolved with the parasite in Europe) are somewhat, but not totally resistant. The parasite goes through a complex life cycle which involves spores which may persist in the bottom sediments for many years, hence it is here to stay in the Madison. It may make infected fish swim in a circle  (whirling) or die, but more frequently cause deformities or make the fish more susceptible to predation or environmental episodes. It was discovered in Colorado in the late ’80s, Utah in ‘91 and now in Montana. Utah initiated a strong program to try to eradicate it when it was first discovered.  Later findings showed it had been spread, perhaps intentionally, to other parts of the state.  Current efforts are directed to try to protect wild native cutthroat from the disease.  Montana has a good program and  has been trying to prevent it from coming into the state.

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Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? Paul

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Whirling disease…..not good.  Up to 90% of the rainbows have died.  I got this from a guy at Lakestream Fly Shop in Whitefish last week.  It doesn’t seem to be affecting the brown trout population that badly.  Yet…another distrubing note.  They are not sure how the disease is spreading.  I am going to ask a fishery pathologist i know, on what he knows what is going on.  I will post the info that evening.  I will try to do it on Monday. If anyone around here knows what is going on…he will.  Yet the info coming my way on the impact of the disease is NOT GOOD!.  Just pray I guess. Peter

Response:

Last night’s Bozeman Daily Chronicle ran the headline "Madison River Rainbows Diseased," or something like that. The story identified Whirling disease as the culprit, and quoted Montana Fish and Game Biologist Dick Vincent, who said upper Madison rainbow populations had plummeted from 3300 to 300 fish/mile in a single season. Brown trout, so far, seem unafected.    Whirling disease has traditionally been associated with hatchery fish in the past. How this disease has made its way into a wild population remains a mystery. But Dick Vincent did mention scattered reports of hatchery rainbows mysteriously appearing in the upper Madison in late 1980’s. What this means is anyone’s guess. Montana hasn’t stocked rainbows in the Madison for decades.    What happens next? There are rumors. But nothing definite yet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete fishing closure on the upper Madison for a few years. It’s not clear that a slimy Elk Hair Caddis–heavily used Monday evening on the Madison–couldn’t transmit Whirling disease to Big Hole or Yellowstone rainbows on Tuesday morning. It would be a real tragedy if the lower Yellowstone’s (now) recovering native Cutthroat populations were to become effected (decimated?) too. This could be really bad news. —

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Last night’s Bozeman Daily Chronicle ran the headline "Madison River Rainbows Diseased," or something like that. The story identified Whirling disease as the culprit, and quoted Montana Fish and Game Biologist Dick Vincent, who said upper Madison rainbow populations had plummeted from 3300 to 300 fish/mile in a single season. Brown trout, so far, seem unafected. <snip   What happens next? There are rumors. But nothing definite yet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete fishing closure on the upper Madison for a few years. It’s not clear that a slimy Elk <snip again

There are a lot of rumors bouncing around Bozeman today. The main one that I have heard is that FW&P will attempt a total rainbow kill on the Upper Madison, although how they would do this without taking out the browns is anyone’s guess.  Suggestions that I have heard include changing the regs to require people fishing to kill all rainbows and release all browns.  I can’t believe that this would get all of the rainbows – we just don’t fish that well. Another problem will be what to do if they can take out the rainbows completely.  Options would presumably include (a) leaving this stretch of river as a trophy wild brown river, (b) restocking the rainbows from hatchery fish, which would really degrade the fishery for several years, and (c) relocating wild rainbows from other parts of the river. On the less bad news side, it is my understanding that this is limited to the river between Quake lake and Ennis dam.  I never thought that I would be grateful for that stupid dam.  I.e., unless they lose it there is no immediate danger of this getting into the lower Madison and hence into the Missouri, Gallatin, etc.  At the other end, the Madison in Yellowstone National Park, and hence the Gibbon and Firehole, are not currently in danger. Unfortunately I haven’t heard that this will kill off the whitefish. The stretch of river affected by this disease is often claimed to be the best piece of wild trout water in the continental US, so this is already a disaster, and if the disease does get into the browns as well it will probably be 10-20 years before they can fully restore the fishery.  Not a good Christmas present for the people who read this group. Denbigh http://www.cs.montana.edu/~starkey http://www.cs.montana.edu/~starkey/fishing.html 406-994-4780 (work), 406-586-7614 (home)

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I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

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writes: I will be in yosemite along the merced river  sept 13 for 10 days and would appreciate any advice on that or other nearby rivers: eg, patterns, line weight, good areas, guides, weather conditions, etc, etc.  please email me and thanks for the help.   daved

I’ve never fished it, but "California Fly Fisher" magazine had a short article in their July-Aug ‘93 issue on the Merced.  Call them at (415)621-3117, maybe they can send you a back issue.  They said the better fishing for wild trout is outside the park.  Good luck, Bill Uyeki

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