Question:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation. I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

What can I say, I forgot.  Does this mean I have to send back my decoder ring? Peter the worried

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before … I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

But you’re forgetting that Scott, taking after his mother’s side of the family, is WAY too smart to be a ROFFian. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before … I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river. But you’re forgetting that Scott, taking after his mother’s side of the family, is WAY too smart to be a ROFFian.

That and the fact his dad likes to keep him away from influences that will lead him into a life of debauchery.  He can find his own way.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation.

I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

Response:

Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation. I thought the ROFFian method says to hand him a bottle of Wild Turkey, scream ‘Drink or Die, mother f*er’, haul his butt into the fishing car and careen wildly to the river.

    ah, stan, ol’ boy, you will soon learn more than you ever wanted to know concerning the rather brusque nature of interaction techniques displayed by the subject of that little anecdote.     let’s just say that no one has ever called him "gentleman jim" roberts. your friend in the old north state wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

or how to screw up your first day on the Grand and still catch some fish. Scott was supposed to come with me but he had been out partying the night before and the groaning coming from the other room, spoke to his state of incapacitation.  I had put my stuff together the night before, just before I hit the sack.  This was going to be the first Grand trip after a season of steelheading so everything had to be dragged out of drawers, closets and rearranged. Six weights seemed to be a good idea to chuck some large perch streamers at the top end of the Grand.  It had been blown out by earlier rains so I was counting on high and dirty.  In these conditions, perch get washed through the dam and the browns have a field day with them. As I drive by Cedar Run, I can see that the water is a bit high but also that it is gin clear.  Scratch plan number one. I stop at the second access point – my car is the only one (miracle) – but as I’m suiting up, two more cars arrive.  The water at the access point usually holds a few fish but if these guys tromp through it first, that’ll blow my chance at them so I hurry up.  The little 6 wt. is taken since the perch streamer idea is done like dinner. I’m using a Type 6 fullsink on it – casts OK but the little rod is working – and I start swinging a little pattern – nothing.  This is a new pattern that I hope will successfully imitate small baitfish but I don’t move a single fish.  I work downstream while the car load work upstream.  The area around Cedar Run tends not to have a lot of defined seams and runs that would appeal to the nympher – mostly composed of flats connected by riffles.  However, the gang has parked themselves in a nice nymphing spot and after about 15 minutes, a dead brown of about 12" floats by.  Later, one guy walks by and I say the I noticed he had hooked one.  He’s quite pleased to describe it but I refrain from telling him the result. Should mention that in the process of hurrying I had left behind my tippet, thermometer, camera, and a couple of fly boxes. Should also mention that it was freaking cold and I was dressed for the summer-like temperatures promised for mid day. Should also mention that I didn’t get a single hit. To hell with Cedar Run and I pack up for The Trestle.  This spot has an old rail trestle bridge that is now used by walkers – it has a beautiful view of the Grand.  Directly below the bridge, there’s some slow water that has the appearance of a warm water river, but further down, the river is split by an island and as the river rejoins, there’s a beautiful nymphing run which is now my intended target but it’s probably chock-a-block with anglers. I unwrap the 20 something year old graphite Orvis Osprey – a slow 9′ 6" six weight that I bought over eBay.  The cork is still white – the rod having seen virtually no use.  It was an impulse buy and I regretted it afterward but hell, since I have it, might as well use it.  What a little gem.  About as perfect a nymphing rod as one could want. At least when I don’t catch any fish I’ll enjoin the experience. When I get to the run, there’s no one in it despite seeing fishermen above and below me.  Are they all nuts?  On goes a #18 bead head prince nymph that I had bought at the Feathered Hook last year. Within a few minutes of my travels to the dark side, I’ve hooked and landed a sleek, fat, 15-16" brown.  She put on quite a show, charging all over the place, making the JLH sing a few times and causing the gang upstream to cast covetous glances.  Swing her into the shallows, she’s lightly hooked, lift the head and slip out the nymph and she’s on her way.  A few casts later and I’ve hooked her twin sister and landed her in the same spot.  Grand browns at this time of year are at their most feisty so even a fish of this size takes a couple of minutes to land.  A few minutes later I set the hook into a larger fish but I was overly aggressive with the hookset and when it turned I had too much pressure applied.  Snap. I don’t normally hog a run but with anglers bracketing me, I don’t have much choice.  However, these hookups will be my last.  Back to the parking lot for some of Jo’s famous sandwiches and a reassessment. Can’t believe my nymphing luck.  The first set had been totally instinctive and I had been really surprised to find a fish on.  Watch out Louie, I’m starting to get the hang of this! A quick detour to a favourite spot at Inverhaugh but it yields only the briefest of hookups and a chat with a few anglers as it also gets busy while I fish.  A guide leads two rookie clients to the water and makes a big fuss out of walking across the water well downstream of me so as not to disturb my fishing water.  Thanks.  Too bad the next gang hadn’t been around to hear the instruction.  Again three, two rookies lead by a not so rookie.  He leads them into the water to cross within five feet of me and to tromp through the water I’m fishing.  As they approach, I expect to see them angle off but they keep coming. Finally, I advise them that I’m fishing this water, would they mind crossing further down.  The look of surprise on the leader’s face told me that he hadn’t even thought of the possibility that I might be actually fishing the water! Oh well, I still caught some – on a nymph to boot. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Warren Findley’s Pheasant Tail and …. are both unusual, beautifully tied, and destined to catch fish.

How so?

Response:

Flys arrived yesterday!  BEAUTIFUL!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!

Response:

I got mine yesterday.  I am really impressed with the overall quality of the tying.  A nice assortment of styles represented. Pete Collin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Flys arrived yesterday!  BEAUTIFUL!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!

Response:

am i the only one who hasn’t received the flies?  based on everyone’s reaction, i’m assuming frank didn’t include the mutants in your swap collection <g. jeff (sleepless in carolina) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got mine yesterday.

Response:

Mine arrived today, thanks to every tyer, great job you did! And special thanks to Frank "the magic fast" Church; seems that my flies have been early in Germany than in Carolina. I hope I will make it next year too. Best regards Wim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Flys arrived yesterday!  BEAUTIFUL!! Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!

Response:

Mine arrived yesterday, forgot to post, but a hearty "Thank-you" to Frank for the great job. What a fabulous batch of well tied flies from size 22-2/0, or something like that! Thanks to all who participated!                                 Tom L

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They arrived!  Very nice work.  I am inspired. Thank you. Glenn GKT

Response:

Thank you to Frank most of all. Glenn GKT

Response:

Mine arrived yesterday, forgot to post, but a hearty "Thank-you" to Frank for the great job. What a fabulous batch of well tied flies from size 22-2/0, or something like that! Thanks to all who participated!                                Tom L

Flies arrived today.  Thank you Frank for organizing.  This is a fun assortment of flies, nicely done.   Over and out. Eugene K.

Response:

Much to my acute embarrassment I have discovered the reason why the flies never arrived… they were never sent. Tans had a number of packages that day and thought she had them all sent (We mail-order out several copies of my CD a week) but she found the fly package today under the seat of her car. I can’t apologize enough for the trouble this may have caused you Frank. Anyways, I now have 45 terrorestrial dry-flies sitting here and would like to donate them as a raffle prize for the Penn Clave.. who do I send them to??? can e-mail me a snail mail addy please. remove the remove for the real address. Sincerely (A Very Embarrassed) Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still waitin’! Op  –I may just have to go postal over this– Oh shit!  Sorry Op, I just found your package of flies…..Guts the Cat hid it under my desk and chewed all the little bits of fur and feather leaving nothing but bare hooks! Clark Reid’s flies to get here from New Zealand! Recently deposed swapmeister…

Response:

Me too. But then I’m in Georgia right now, not Montana and won’t be home for about another week. Bummer. Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitter, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, the USPS finally made it to the far reaches of the East Coast.  I thought the 40 flies from the swap would never arrive. I’m still waitin’! Op  –I may just have to go postal over this–

Response:

um, nevermind…arrived in today’s mail.  nice work y’all.  thanks for letting me tag along this year, and i’ll try to improve a bit for the next go-round.   jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – am i the only one who hasn’t received the flies?  based on everyone’s reaction, i’m assuming frank didn’t include the mutants in your swap collection <g. jeff (sleepless in carolina) I got mine yesterday.

Response:

Jeff Miller writes: um, nevermind…arrived in today’s mail.  nice work y’all.  thanks for letting me tag along this year, and i’ll try to improve a bit for the next go-round.  

Your Hare’s Ear was fine, Jeff.  It’ll catch fish, and that is what it’s all about… Dave

Response:

Jeff Miller writes: um, nevermind…arrived in today’s mail.  nice work y’all.  thanks for letting me tag along this year, and i’ll try to improve a bit for the next go-round. Your Hare’s Ear was fine, Jeff.  It’ll catch fish, and that is what it’s all about… Dave

Ditto.  The one I got and the one that Paul photographed look very good for a beginner.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stan Gula writes: Jeff Miller writes: um, nevermind…arrived in today’s mail.  nice work y’all.  thanks for letting me tag along this year, and i’ll try to improve a bit for the next go-round. Your Hare’s Ear was fine, Jeff.  It’ll catch fish, and that is what it’s all about… Dave Ditto.  The one I got and the one that Paul photographed look very good for a beginner.

Yeah, but don’t forget, his lovely wife Rachel tied some of them.  I betcha mine, your’s and Paul’s were tied by her.  I hear tell that the ones he tied had blood on them!   <g Dave

Response:

Well, the USPS finally made it to the far reaches of the East Coast.  I thought the 40 flies from the swap would never arrive.

I’m still waitin’! Op  –I may just have to go postal over this–

Response:

I’m still waitin’! Op  –I may just have to go postal over this–

Oh shit!  Sorry Op, I just found your package of flies…..Guts the Cat hid it under my desk and chewed all the little bits of fur and feather leaving nothing but bare hooks! Reid’s flies to get here from New Zealand! Recently deposed swapmeister…

Response:

<< I’m still waitin’! Op  –I may just have to go postal over this–   I’m whimpering quietly.  The mailbox was empty of fly swop boxes again today. I am clearly a sinner in the hand of an angry postal god. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

regarding Re: Frank’s Fly Swap Flies Arrived!: E. Tyler’s Midge Emerger Tim Lysyk’s Mountain Midge Both will be copied by me after I lose them.

You can find the tying recipe and a little story about the Mountain Midge on a web page I do. The Url is http://www.telusplanet.net/public/cnangler/html/fom9697.htm#fom11 I am very proud of this fly. It is simple, and one that I developed on my own. It was included in a book on fly patterns a few years ago, and is a pretty popular fly in our area thanks to the local flyshop owner who had me tie some 80 dozen or so for him one year. It works well during the winter fished about 18" below a yarn indicator, and also as the dropper in a hopper-dropper combination during the summer. Tim Lysyk timlysyk at shaw dot ca

Response:

Recieved my shipment sometime last week.  They stocked the local delayed harvest waters in South Easternn PA.  Been on travel and was looking forward to coming home and fishing.  However with the rains (not to mention the cold temps) I figure I’d freeze and there were no flys in the swap that were detectable to fish feeding on the sonar mode due to zero water visibility. I liked the quality and variety of flies.  Got some good ideas for modifing designs I tie also.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, the USPS finally made it to the far reaches of the East Coast.  I thought the 40 flies from the swap would never arrive. I anxiously opened the package and dumped the contents onto the kitchet table. What a mess!  It seems that all 40 flies had begun to mutate into Hares Ears. There are some beautiful ties inspite of the partial mutation.  Once I seperated them, the mutation stopped and began to reverse itself with all except one.  It ended up looking like a pretty good Hares Ear and I can’t wait to catch a big salmon with it. <G Interesting ties: Bob Beardall’s Brassie Emerger:  That will be the first one fished and it will catch big brookies and land locks. Willi’s BWO emerger will be dabbed just upstream of some big brookies – and they will be fooled! E. Tyler’s Midge Emerger Tim Lysyk’s Mountain Midge Both will be copied by me after I lose them. Warren Findley’s Pheasant Tail and Glenn Tippy’s Alexandra Wet Fly are both unusual, beautifully tied, and destined to catch fish. All in all, this was a great swap.  All of the ties are wonderful.  Thanks to all, especially to Frank for putting it all together. Dave (getting ready to sit at the fly-tying bench and begin plagiarizing…..) d;0)

Response:

Wonderful tying from you guys!  All the whining about how poorly your flies will look and fish was total bunk.  Each one is a work of art and I cannot wait to give them all a try!  Thanks to each one of the craftsmen that participated, you done _reel_ good! Chris Fanning — tied with Lee Newton for the largest fly in Swap!

Response:

Wonderful tying from you guys!  All the whining about how poorly your flies will look and fish was total bunk.  Each one is a work of art and I cannot wait to give them all a try!  Thanks to each one of the craftsmen that participated, you done _reel_ good! Chris Fanning — tied with Lee Newton for the largest fly in Swap!

Mine also arrived today – a marvelous assortment of flies.  Looks like I’m going to have to get over to the ocean and try some saltwater FF so that I can try all of them. Thanks for all the work, Frank, and congratulations to all the participants. Bob Weinberger

Response:

Well, the USPS finally made it to the far reaches of the East Coast.  I thought the 40 flies from the swap would never arrive. I anxiously opened the package and dumped the contents onto the kitchet table. What a mess!  It seems that all 40 flies had begun to mutate into Hares Ears. There are some beautiful ties inspite of the partial mutation.  Once I seperated them, the mutation stopped and began to reverse itself with all except one.  It ended up looking like a pretty good Hares Ear and I can’t wait to catch a big salmon with it. <G Interesting ties: Bob Beardall’s Brassie Emerger:  That will be the first one fished and it will catch big brookies and land locks. Willi’s BWO emerger will be dabbed just upstream of some big brookies – and they will be fooled! E. Tyler’s Midge Emerger Tim Lysyk’s Mountain Midge Both will be copied by me after I lose them. Warren Findley’s Pheasant Tail and Glenn Tippy’s Alexandra Wet Fly are both unusual, beautifully tied, and destined to catch fish. All in all, this was a great swap.  All of the ties are wonderful.  Thanks to all, especially to Frank for putting it all together. Dave (getting ready to sit at the fly-tying bench and begin plagiarizing…..) d;0)

Response:

E. Tyler’s Midge Emerger Tim Lysyk’s Mountain Midge Both will be copied by me after I lose them.

Just a tip – copy them *before* you lose them <g. I finally got mine today as well.   I got home Friday night after a long day on airplanes & rental cars (Albany this time) to find lots of happy ROFFians posting their glee at receiving their swap booty.   Since my PO box is close to my office, not my home, I was forced to wait two whole days salivating, knowing the package was right there waiting for me.   I was already late this morning, so what’s another 10 minutes I fugure, and I stopped in the PO to claim my waiting prize. Most of the early recipients have used the superlatives; I’ll only add my concurrence.   It’s a fine lot of flies and a finer bunch of ROFFians I’m proud to be a part of.   Thanks to all (and of course, to YOFGS). Joe F. (3 months to DDFS2)

Response:

Wonderful tying from you guys!  All the whining about how poorly your flies will look and fish was total bunk.  Each one is a work of art and I cannot wait to give them all a try!  Thanks to each one of the craftsmen that participated, you done _reel_ good!

Obviously you haven’t looked deeper into the flies yet.  Watch out for my #12 fly and hope you didn’t get it.  It left here perfect but might have overheated in the big brown truck and so I’m not responsible. — Warren For Henry’s Fork Clave and Bozeman fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt Reverse email to reply

Response:

Question:

The last couple of times I have been out fishing the weather has been less than ideal.  My last day out was Super Bowl Sunday and I went to fish the Gallatin River.  The river was flowing like a runny slushy and it was very cold out.  This was the first time I have ever had a layer of ice on my leader and had small flies freeze into ice cubes.  The slush on the water made it very difficult to get the flies and leader to penetrate the surface for a decent drift. I did manage to get one lazy take and did see several fish feeding, but I did not land anything.  It is hard trying to hook a fish with an ice cube.  I still had a nice day visiting some of the places I used to fish on a regular basis before moving to Livingston. The previous outing, I found myself in between trips of the "big move".  I loaded the truck up and decided instead of driving back to Bozeman and unloading that I would fish for a few hours then do the deed.  I drove up the Yellowstone for a few miles to a nice side channel of the river that is easy to wade.  It was cold out, but the sun was shining and there was little wind.  Other than the drone of passing cars, it was a very peaceful day out.  I managed to catch a few whitefish but missed out on the rainbows when they started rising to midges. Somehow I had managed to forget my box of dry flies on my desk after adding midge patterns. The weekend before I had my daughter and the weather had been perfect for a long day of fishing.  I was unable to go for obvious reasons, but I couldn’t help but wondering how the fishing was with each look outside the window.  This weekend the weather is very nice.  Currently it is in the 40’s and somewhat cloudy.  It has been above freezing every day since Thursday (since I picked up my daughter) and the big storm that they have been predicting has not materialized as of yet (6- 12" of snow my ass!). As I look out of my window, once again wondering how the fishing is right now, I am starting to wonder if I am cursed.  It seems that every time that I am unable to get out, the weather will be nice.  When I am able to fish, the weather decides to become the worst it will be than on the preceding or following days. There is a bright side to this curse however.  The days I am able to fish are either by myself or with very few others out on the rivers. In my last three outings I have only encountered 4 people and only got within speaking range once.  This solitude is part of the charm of winter fishing and I always have spring and summer to look forward to for warmer weather.  The time spent with my daughter is invaluable and a worthy trade for such a minor curse.  Is having the best of both worlds too much to ask for though?

Response:

Just curious Warren.  Is John Grisham required reading for law

students <G. Email Wayno and ask him or wait another year and half for me to start law school — Warren Findley

Response:

Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty?

Warren

Response:

Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty? <g Warren

Just curious Warren.  Is John Grisham required reading for law students <G. I just finished reading The Brethren, and I am a few pages from the end of The Rainmaker.  I couldn’t put down The Brethren and I didn’t want it to end either. I’m no fictional literature aficionado, but he sure keeps my attention. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Don’t worry,  this "curse" is not just restricted to you.  Last season,  my 4 absolute favourite flyfishing weekends in the Piscatorial Calendar (last in May, first in June, plus last 2 in Sept)  were washed out with flooded rivers.

Response:

Don’t worry,  this "curse" is not just restricted to you.  Last season,  my 4 absolute favourite flyfishing weekends in the Piscatorial Calendar (last in May, first in June, plus last 2 in Sept)  were washed out with flooded rivers.

Were you trying to fish the Grand last year.  :)  It was flooded too. Flooding must be catching. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

…cut for brevity… I am starting to wonder if I am cursed.

…cut for brevity… Have you done anything that may have upset Mr. Forty? Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Question:

You guys (meant respectfully, plurally, and either gender) were great when I asked about your candidates for the best vise going. Now, if you will take me out of my misery again, this time… please … Which wader. Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc. Are breathables okay in very warm weather? I know from previous posts that many of you swear by Orvis, while others — at least one among you — swore by Simms. I lean toward Simms but wonder if they are worth the money. There is quite a price spread. I’m inclined to spring for the difference if justified because my nylons are beginning to look they came out of a glue pot. And, thinking of another recent thread, does anyone selling Simms blink on the price. Larry R (About the thread on vises: I wanted to check out the Darnica, or Danica, but couldn’t find it anywhere. Someone said Orvis sells it under a different name, but I couldn’t tell because their vises all seem to have recognizable brands.)

Response:

I too am an Oregonian and began using Neoprenes with the old James Scott unlined ones….great smell to them after a couple of outings, sort of like the Chicago stockyards on a hot August day.  With the advent of breathables I’d never wear another Neoprene wader, winter or summer…breathables all the way, in the summer a pair of light weight capilene long johns to keep the moisture off the skin and prevent a case of rosy red ass from cropping up on the 3d or 4th day of a trip. When it is really cold (like the Sandy in January, Idaho in October ) Patagonia Expedition weight long johns or lt. long johns under a lt. wt capilene pant is the ticket for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys (meant respectfully, plurally, and either gender) were great when I asked about your candidates for the best vise going. Now, if you will take me out of my misery again, this time… please … Which wader. Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc. Are breathables okay in very warm weather? I know from previous posts that many of you swear by Orvis, while others — at least one among you — swore by Simms. I lean toward Simms but wonder if they are worth the money. There is quite a price spread. I’m inclined to spring for the difference if justified because my nylons are beginning to look they came out of a glue pot. And, thinking of another recent thread, does anyone selling Simms blink on the price. Larry R (About the thread on vises: I wanted to check out the Darnica, or Danica, but couldn’t find it anywhere. Someone said Orvis sells it under a different name, but I couldn’t tell because their vises all seem to have recognizable brands.)

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

Which wader.

I haven’t tried the breathables yet, I think the jury is still out on those, some seem to like them some don’t. Last year I decided that my old Hodgeman neo’s had shrunk enough (:-)) and that I needed a larger size. I had a LL Bean gift certificate that was a Christmas present so I went down to Freeport and got fitted for a nice pair of waders. Compared to my old Hodgeman’s these things are fantastic. Guess I’m a neoprene guy, but then I float tube in some pretty darn cold water and I can’t imagine using a pair of breathables for that purpose. Under the neo’s I wear a pair of polypro johhnies that I got on sale at the Fly shop in Greenville Maine…this has turned out to be the best setup I’ve had yet. Flyfish

Response:

Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather…

I tested the Simms Goretex on 2 trips to Alaska this year. When wading in knee-deep darn-cold water, and while hiking, they were far better than neoprene.  When in waist-deep darn-cold water, even with 300 polartec pants and wool socks, I started to chill quickly.  When sitting in a semi-cold wet raft, those portions of the waders that were in contact with the raft or other objects lost their functionality, and it seemed like wet-spots were forming on the inside of the waders and there was zero heat retention. During one day of rafting I was on the verge of hypothermia in the Simms Goretex whereas I’m 100% sure I would have been warm in neoprene. My overall take is this.  All breathable waders are good *if and only if* they get a change to breath and vent off any moisture buildup which would otherwise wick warmth away from the body. Time-extended or deep wading, or sitting or leaning on surfaces causes moisture buildup followed by rapid heat loss.  Neoprene on the other hand might get damp inside from sweat, but its a "warm damp". As I resume winter steelheading, I’ll be back in the neoprene. Thomas Gilg

Response:

I have the 3.5 mil neoprene waders, and find them to be uncomfortably warm most of the time in Oregon.  If I was getting out often enough to justify the price, I’d get a set of lightweight breathable ones and a pair of fleece pants to wear underneath in colder conditions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc. Are breathables okay in very warm weather?

Response:

When Neoprenes are too hot, why not wade wet? Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the 3.5 mil neoprene waders, and find them to be uncomfortably warm most of the time in Oregon.  If I was getting out often enough to justify the price, I’d get a set of lightweight breathable ones and a pair of fleece pants to wear underneath in colder conditions. Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc. Are breathables okay in very warm weather?

Response:

I used to wade wet in the summer, but the snow melt in the Sierras can be very cold, so I started using lightweight stocking foot hip waders and never get too warm or too cold. Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When Neoprenes are too hot, why not wade wet? Willi I have the 3.5 mil neoprene waders, and find them to be uncomfortably warm most of the time in Oregon.  If I was getting out often enough to justify the price, I’d get a set of lightweight breathable ones and a pair of fleece pants to wear underneath in colder conditions.

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re breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc.

I believe the breathables are as good or better than neoprenes in the winter provided the appropiate undergarments are worn. I usually wear a pair of long underwear and depending upon the weather and mood, flannel lined jeans or fleece pants and good socks (wool usually). Are breathables okay in very warm weather?

Yes as long as your in the water. They may breathe but on a hot day, waders are still waders when walking back out. I know from previous posts that many of you swear by Orvis, while others — at least one among you — swore by Simms. I lean toward Simms but wonder if they are worth the money. There is quite a price spread. I’m inclined to spring for the difference if justified because my nylons are beginning to look they came out of a glue pot.

I swear by Simms. and as far as I’m concerned, comparing them to other *cheaper* breathable waders I’ve seen, there is no comparison.  But there are other good brands coming out or are out (Patagonia, LL Bean, Ronny, etc). I think you first need to decide Gore Tex or not. Simms is gore tex, Orvis is not. Not saying that one is better than the other, but the gore tex stuff often carries a premium. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

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I wear my breathables only in the summer and ony for wading. Not for belly boating. I ran into a pair of old guys (70s) who were wearing breathables with long johns and several other layers in the dead of winter. I were 3mm in the early fall and 5 mm in the winter and in the spring belly boating with more or less layers underneath. Breathables are much more comfortable and I’d wear them all the time if I didn’t suffer urinary types of distress when I cold soak my ah…crotch. I’ve got the LL Bean bullet proof breathables with Kevlar since I do lots of bushwhacking through stuff that rips up normal breathables or neoprenes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys (meant respectfully, plurally, and either gender) were great when I asked about your candidates for the best vise going. Now, if you will take me out of my misery again, this time… please … Which wader. Are breathables as good as neoprene in cold weather, if you wear longjohns (or whatever) under them? In very cold weather? I fish Oregon rivers and will be going to Wyoming at the end of October. Yellowstone, etc. Are breathables okay in very warm weather? I know from previous posts that many of you swear by Orvis, while others — at least one among you — swore by Simms. I lean toward Simms but wonder if they are worth the money. There is quite a price spread. I’m inclined to spring for the difference if justified because my nylons are beginning to look they came out of a glue pot. And, thinking of another recent thread, does anyone selling Simms blink on the price. Larry R (About the thread on vises: I wanted to check out the Darnica, or Danica, but couldn’t find it anywhere. Someone said Orvis sells it under a different name, but I couldn’t tell because their vises all seem to have recognizable brands.)

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<tale of woe snipped Sounds like a case of bad layering techniques.  Try wearing something that will keep you dry and allow the moisture to escape.  Wearing materials that absorb and keep water is not something one would consider appropriate for wearing under breathables. I have found wearing fleece to be most comfortable.  I know the winters here in Montana don’t get as cold as Alaska, but it does get colder than a witches tit in a brass bra here.  On extremely cold days I still slip into my neoprenes, but for the most part I wear my breathables and just layer myself underneath. With proper layering you will stay warm and dry and not have any sad tales to tell. Here is an example of what I wear: 2  sets of long johns 1 set of fleece bibs 1 pair of sweats pants 2 pair of heavy wool socks 1 sweatshirt 1 fleece jacket 1 Gore-Tex jacket to stop wind / keep dry With this setup I am comfortable on those really cold days.  Other times I don’t need as much and find myself shedding an upper layer or two. The key is wearing materials that don’t absorb and hold water close to the skin. Hope this helps.  Stay warm. Warren

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Agree with most of your post except the part about sweat pants and sweatshirt. Most of these are made of cotton and cotton loses its ability to insulate after it gets wet. So if the moisture is wicked by the fleece layer to the cotton, you have a soggy layer that’s providing no heat retention. Wool, however, does retain its insulating properties when wet but gets soggy nonetheless. Polypropylene fleece is the best all around in my opinion for wicking and maintaining its insulating properties. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <tale of woe snipped Sounds like a case of bad layering techniques.  Try wearing something that will keep you dry and allow the moisture to escape.  Wearing materials that absorb and keep water is not something one would consider appropriate for wearing under breathables. I have found wearing fleece to be most comfortable.  I know the winters here in Montana don’t get as cold as Alaska, but it does get colder than a witches tit in a brass bra here.  On extremely cold days I still slip into my neoprenes, but for the most part I wear my breathables and just layer myself underneath. With proper layering you will stay warm and dry and not have any sad tales to tell. Here is an example of what I wear: 2  sets of long johns 1 set of fleece bibs 1 pair of sweats pants 2 pair of heavy wool socks 1 sweatshirt 1 fleece jacket 1 Gore-Tex jacket to stop wind / keep dry With this setup I am comfortable on those really cold days.  Other times I don’t need as much and find myself shedding an upper layer or two. The key is wearing materials that don’t absorb and hold water close to the skin. Hope this helps.  Stay warm. Warren

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Two sets of long johns, fleece bibs, and a pair of sweat pants? Judas, man, how the hell do you walk with all that around your gams? Must be hell when you gotta pee.

Actually it isn’t.  The bibs have a zipper at the bottom of the fly as well as the top.  The long johns are the old fashioned "union suits" that have buttons all down the front and a trap door in the rear.  The sweats are elastic at the waist.  I leave the long johns unbuttoned at the last button so it is easily accessable.   Walking isn’t a problem because I buy my waders a little large so it all fits. It is really only slightly more bulky than neoprenes. Warren

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Two sets of long johns, fleece bibs, and a pair of sweat pants? Judas, man, how the hell do you walk with all that around your gams? Must be hell when you gotta pee. -wf – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <tale of woe snipped Sounds like a case of bad layering techniques.  Try wearing something that will keep you dry and allow the moisture to escape.  Wearing materials that absorb and keep water is not something one would consider appropriate for wearing under breathables. I have found wearing fleece to be most comfortable.  I know the winters here in Montana don’t get as cold as Alaska, but it does get colder than a witches tit in a brass bra here.  On extremely cold days I still slip into my neoprenes, but for the most part I wear my breathables and just layer myself underneath. With proper layering you will stay warm and dry and not have any sad tales to tell. Here is an example of what I wear: 2  sets of long johns 1 set of fleece bibs 1 pair of sweats pants 2 pair of heavy wool socks 1 sweatshirt 1 fleece jacket 1 Gore-Tex jacket to stop wind / keep dry With this setup I am comfortable on those really cold days.  Other times I don’t need as much and find myself shedding an upper layer or two. The key is wearing materials that don’t absorb and hold water close to the skin. Hope this helps.  Stay warm. Warren

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When Neoprenes are too hot, why not wade wet? Willi

Because the air temp may be warm, but the water cold as hell after the snow melts. Warren

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0] : … : (About the thread on vises: I wanted to check out the Darnica, or : Danica, but couldn’t find it anywhere. Someone said Orvis sells it under : a different name, but I couldn’t tell because their vises all seem to : have recognizable brands.) See Al Beatty’s web page http://www.btsflyfishing.com  He sells the Danica vise and is a real straight shooter. You won’t go wrong dealing with him. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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My turn guys, Mike, no problem with your views.  The major thing is that these two are on the air as CANADIAN SPORTFISHING.  You want a couple of law breakers, convicted, going on the air as AMERICAN SPORTFISHING? You, me, Jeff, joe blow down the street make a mistake it’s one thing.  A professional representing his/her country makes a mistake in his professional area that’s a little different. We all worry about the loss of jobs to the innocent, that’s the biggest heartbreak of the whole thing.  Unfortunately this is part of putting your eggs in the wrong basket.  Life does go on.  For this to happen saddens me as I am sure it does the other members of the group behind getting Canadian Sportfishing off the air and the magazine off the shelves.  I know a lot of magazine folks, if one of these people that are in fact innocent and have the proper and necessary credentials writes me that they lost a job over this, I for one will help them in any way I can.  Mark, Rick, Steve, Dan, expect a call. Concerned Canadian — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/

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Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Paul, I was not aware of the title of the show. I am bound to agree that this makes the whole thing even more unfortunate. By the way I am British and live in Germany, so the likelihood of my ever seeing one of these shows is fairly remote.  Which, considering all I have heard about some of them,  is not such a catastrophe as I otherwise might have assumed. Notwithstanding my views, I can understand people getting very upset about such things, I would ( and have !) too given similar circumstances. This was one reason I felt moved to comment in the first place.  I hope the affair is settled to everyones satisfaction as soon as possible. Thanks again for the info. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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To add my 2 cents worth to this thread… I got a call from a reliable source mentioning that these guys are looking for writers to contribute articles to their magazine. While some may take up the offer, my immediate response was"Are you crazy? No reputable writer wants their name associated with illegal activities in any way." Thus, I may have turned down revenue in the short run, but I maintained my personal and professional standards and I’ll chance the lost revenue. Bill Luscombe Freelance Outdoor Writer – British Columbia

Well Done Bill. This is the response that will infuriate sponsors, and eventually lead to the removal of these donkeys. You have taken the high road and I am sure that avid anglers will be more inclined to read your material as a result.

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Geez, Mike!  If I’d known that we were *both* longwinded, I may not have touched this post.<grin  I know you’ve said you would rather not say more about this.  I’ll try not to drag you back in by asking questions. And. I’ll try to be brief. I said I’ll try.<grin My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve.

This thing actually started up back around April or so.  I think they did just as you have stated and it sort of worked.  The smell never really left entirely.  I think folks felt the way we do when we wake up after election night to find the "other guy" won: Well, I did what I could.  But they may have been given a chance to cast their ballot in an open atmosphere this time.  Last time, the network was the only one to see the tally. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree.

All of these e-mail addresses were obtained from the companies involved.  They aren’t going to individuals.  This is one of their normal methods of receiving feedback. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc,…

I admit that this does bother me.  These two will go down.  But, not because they are innocent of any wrong doing and somehow a handfull of us decided to destroy them for no reason. I have been unable to find any support whatsoever anywhere in Canada.  This has all been a sham from the getgo.  The network sites overwhelming viewer support as one of the main criteria for keeping the show.  I have asked repeatedly to have the response file made public.  I already know what’s in it.  The same response I’m getting on the street, from industry pros and here on the Internet.   selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders.

Actually the result would be the same.  The magazine and the show would fold if the hosts didn’t have licenses.  However, we have no such recourse anyway.  I wish we did, Mike.  It looks like they are about to topple anyway.  I’ve had one *unconfirmed* report from British Columbia that one distributor has pulled their magazine off the shelf.  I hear "rumours" that they have slipped from fighting for top spot to as low as possibly fifth in the ratings expected out very soon.  Couple this with a renewed letter writing campaign to the sponsors and it doesn’t bode well for the boys. indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong.

Funny you should say that, Mike.  Just yesterday, I was going over my extensive writings on the subject.  As near as I can tell, I’m safe.  I always try to be careful.  Although there may have been an occassion or two when you wouldn’t have been very proud of me.  For the most part, I try to keep my cool. I believe that most everyone has done the same as best they could. You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )

I doubt that, Mike.  You probably have more correct info in your posession than the average Canuck. the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me.

We had two occasions when H&I agreed to take us on.  First, they were to newsgroups.  Fair enough.  We made arrangements to move it over to a Web based discussion board out of the U of Toronto.  At the elenvth hour, they backed out.  Then they said they would answer our e-mail instead. That was about a week and a half ago.  We’re still waiting for at least one of the dozens of questions to be answered. I know what your concern is and I share it.  We tried for weeks to get them to face us.  We would have preferred it if they would stand up and face us like men.  So, if the point of view is one sided, it’s their choice.  We can’t force them to participate.  However, they continue to actively use the mainstream media to get their version of events to a very wide audience.  This is not an attack.  It’s a counter-attack. The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form.

You know, Mike.  I agree with a lot of what you say in this entire post.  But, I don’t see this from the same perspective.  I don’t think we are attempting to increase the penalties for the crimes.  This is about a *big* money business trying to hold onto it’s cash cow.  We are the consumers of the show.  Or, we used to be.  They want to sell us hats, t-shirts, coffee mugs, magazines and seminars.  This doesn’t even include what the sponsors want to sell us.  If some half hour sitcom did something totally outrageous, people would organize a boycott and be writing the Network.  I don’t see this campaign any differently. Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion.

In dollar terms they paid the max.  It was quite an eye opener for me to see how incredibly low that max is.  I was expecting it to be into the thousands for each.  Only $800.00 per.  These guys are loaded.  It’s a little like handing out a thousand dollar fine to some mega pro athlete.  It might have hurt you and I.  But, it wouldn’t really phase these lads.  But, at least they got the max.  As they should. apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know.

Of course one need not break the law to incur the wrath of the viewing public.  No one wants to be mislead or played for an imbecile. …. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid.

I guess that will depend on how the press chooses to play this…which 30 second sound bite becomes the rage on the six o’clock news. For the reasons already outlined above I am against using the internet in this way.  That is why we have laws.

So then, can we agree to disagree?  Oops!  I said I wouldn’t ask questions.  I’ll accept no reply as a Yes.<grin I would wish however that disagreements addressing my published or stated  opinions be factual and sensible, ( like the post from Jeff for instance ) and not drift off into insulting or silly

You are on my Xmas list, Mike.<smile I will follow developments carefully on this case, as I really am very interested in seeing how it progresses and the results if any. ….

Actually, there have been a couple of intersting little things happen behind the scenes this week.  It’s a little premature to be talking about it yet.  This Internet thing may be more effective than I’d hoped.  Coupled of course with widespread disdain amongst amateurs and industry people alike. Thanks, Mike.  I don’t share all your views on this topic.  But, I understand them.                 later,                         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike.

Hi Jeff, thanks for the interesting and informative post. I did not recognise Paul from his address, and I am somewhat wary of information or appeals etc when I do not know the source. Paul very kindly replied immediately to my first post per e-mail with his address etc. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law… Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure.

My problem here is that I am worried that other people not directly involved in this obviously illegal fiasco may be damaged by direct e-mailing to sponsors. Sponsors tend to react slowly but draconically when their public image is damaged, ( their first tactic is to wait and hope the whole smell goes away ), as this is diametrically opposed to what they are trying to achieve. Furthermore, unsolicited e-mail of this nature  can cause problems in its own right, is in many places illegal, and is in my opinion a form of blackmail with which I do not agree. As I understand it according to the information I have been given these two hosts were the guilty parties. Getting the show taken off the air may cause a lot of innocent people problems, such as loss of jobs etc, and I think the suggested method is not selective enough anyway . I would have preferred a petition or something similar to the Fisheries Board ( MNR ? ) or whatever the Canadian equivalent is, which if they are guilty, ought to result in these guys losing their licences, this would effectively prevent them doing anything else like this, would only hit the perpetrators, and not a lot of innocent bystanders. Private and direct e-mails to sponsors or other interested parties might also result in libel suits or similar for those people who do it, depending of course on the content, which would have to be very carefully worded indeed. Lawyers are difficult people to mess with, as they have ways and means of making you regret voicing your opinion or personal interpretation of the facts , which are particularly unpleasant, and in no relation whatever  to whether you are right or wrong. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,… I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me.

You may be right, unfortunately the only information I have has been gleaned from the posts I have read on the subject, which  I assume is the case for most other people ( apart of course from the Canadians who have been following the case in the press etc., and are probably better informed )  I am not suggesting that anybody has made any attempts to mislead or anything, but I think there is a considerable difference between discussing the relative merits of fly rods, or flies or whatever, which may result in somebody getting flamed, and using the  medium to actually punish people directly for actions taken outside this medium. I think the internet is one of the last bastions of freedom, and I do not think it is a good idea to use it in this way. It just goes against the grain. And smacks of Kangaroo court to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril.

The point here is that they were caught, and punished. The punishment might not be everybodys idea of justice, but it is obviously according to the law of a democratic country and has apparently been carried out. It is not my place I feel to pronounce judgement on the actions of courts or other legal entities without at least knowing far more than I do about the circumstances etc. And even then I only really have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, and not implement my own way of futher punishing the guilty parties. I am against mob rule in any form. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment.

A criminal act is a criminal act, and should be punished as such, however here we are talking about a fairly minor criminal act which has engendered a lot of emotions and public feeling.  It is wrong in my opinion to allow punishments etc to be affected in this way by force of public opinion. As far as I am aware a court in Canada ( and most other free countries ) is obliged to find its conclusions and sentences without fear or favour. This is not the case with a large group of anglers on the internet who may have the power to hand out further punishment irrespective of the consequences, and with no control. Also probably biased because of the fact that most are sensible caring anglers who find such behaviour atrocious, and in consequence want to see heavier punishments handed out. ( Campaigning for a correct punishment is something else again, if the MNR can be persuaded to use their powers correctly then this is OK in my opinion ). I am not suggesting that anybody look the other way , and I do not in any way condone acts of this nature. When however people start comparing this sort of thing with rapists, as opposed to serial rapists and other obvious silliness then I think the whole sense of proportion has gone overboard, and that in itself is a good reason for taking no further action, as the anger and sense of injustice expressed here is in no relation to the original crime, and would inevitably result in a far greater punishment than would be fair. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there.

Here again, you may be right, that the MNR was overly generous toward these people. I am unable to comment really , as I would at least have to know how the MNR punishes other people in similar circumstances, before even being able to form an opinion. I will admit that this sort of thing  is often the case with celebrities or very rich people, they can usually buy or barter a better deal than joe public generally, either with money or their fame. This is of course wrong, but I dont see what I or anybody else can do about it, apart from the campaigning mentioned above. That these guys try to bluster their way out of the affair with silly and illogical excuses or even downright lies and deceit  is simply human nature, and is quite widespread. It demonstrates a lamentable lack of character, but is not illegal as far as I know. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two.

I appreciate your feelings and sentiments here fully. From what I have heard ( although a lot of it was purely personal insults towards these guys  and not sensible discussion, so is difficult to evaluate ) these guys were a bit of a sad joke as fishermen and hosts anyway. So I find it unlikely that other sensible  fishermen will take much notice of them, and I do not for one second believe that other fishermen wherever they may be will tar other Canadians with the same brush.  The general non angling public is unlikely to be much affected as they wont watch such shows anyway. In fact more negative publicity is likely to arise when a great big stink about this is made forcing the general public to take notice. This may indeed sway public opinion against anglers generally, and is I assume the very thing most concerned anglers would like to avoid. Similar cases have happened here, … read more »

Response:

All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 …

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

 Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

Response:

Since I am one of the most active in this campaign, I will just throw in a couple of points.  I have written volumes on this issue in both can.rec.fishing and on several discussion boards. The first point I would like to address is the showbiz aspect of TV fishing shows.  Granted these two are not the first to "cheat" in terms of faking their show.  That is not what I’m angry about.  I am angry about their falgrant violations which they claim to accept responsibility for.  They then proceed to come up with every excuse in the book about why they really aren’t to blame.  If you’d seen these two in action, you would have exploded by now. They catch ten "out of season" Bass right off the spawning beds using jig and leech or spinner baits.  Or so I am told by someone who has seen the video footage.  Then they try to sell this as an "accidental" catch while attempting to catch early season Lake Trout.  I called the Ministry.  There are *no* Trout in the lake.  Starting to get the idea? Second. They removed an "out of Season" Laker from another angler’s rod and rehooked it on their own.  This they justify by saying they didn’t know it was illegal.  No one else in this country didn’t know.  When that excuse flounders, they move on to tell us it was for educational reasons.  I needn’t insult the readers of this group by telling them what the appropriate "educational" message *should* have been. So, I guess what really gets to me is how they have attempted to hoodwink us with a media blitz designed to hide the truth and make themselves appear as innocent while at the same time, telling us how humbled they are and how they could have put up a good defense to all the charges.  They have claim to have volunteered to accept criminal records because they say: "we could do more good to the sportfishing industry by not fighting these charges".  Yeah!  That must be it.  Of course, by not allowing the prosecution to present it’s video taped evidence, they have removed it from the Access to Information Act.  Now they can go about pretending that the MNR (Ministry of Natuaral Resources) evidence only shows them snagging Whitefish just outside the mouth.  This is *not* what the MNR says.  Gee.  I wonder who’s telling the truth here? I could write a book on this.  Probably have if I pulled it all together.  I’ve just highlighted one or two points here.  I just want to make it clear that we are not PO’d at these two cretins for their fake fishing.  We are PO’d because they profess to be the founding fathers of conservation in Canadian fishing while actually being among the worst offenders of that movement.  It’s all about big money folks.  Principals are not something either of them are familiar with. And this is one of my shortest writings on this subject. <grin                         Jeff PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for

Regular readers of this board would have no difficulty recognizing the authour from his return address.  I believe Paul answered to this earlier.  He thought it was a good idea at the time. Now, I believe he sees your point, Mike. Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law…

Could you expand on this, Mike?  I think I understand you but just to be sure. … and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence,…

I believe that what most people know about this issue has all come from the same source.  The bad guys!  Somehow, their account seems a little biased to me. they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet.

And, if and when they are, they can expect the same treatment.  This may serve as a warning to others to clean up their acts as well.  They ignore it at their own peril. a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing, where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life,

Well sure.  It’s not Bosnia.  That in itself is hardly reason to look the other way, Mike.  Is there some magic threshold of criminal acts that we should be using?  We are conservationists as well as anglers. What they did was not simply "not very nice" to us.  Should we all be up in arms about poverty, famine and God knows what?  Of course we should. Should we ignore all else?  Of course not.  We are obviously more offended by their actions than you are.  That’s OK too. We all pick our battles.  This is ours for the moment. The MNR(Ministry of Natural Resources) has more power than the police in some instances.  They can seize your truck, boat and equipment on the spot for some of these offences.  I believe the MNR was overly generous to these two by allowing them to keep their licences.  I’m not at all sure they would have treated me that way.  So what do these two do? They try to blame the MNR for not writing clear rules.  Page 4 – top of the page.  It’s right there.  Clear enough to me.  I know you don’t have a copy, Mike.  But, trust me.  It’s there. doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

An old buddy of mine was in town last night.  We met for a pint.  He said something that may apply here.  He is a long distance truck driver.  He was commenting on how truck drivers are no longer respected by the public.  Well, he used stronger language. <grin  Anyway, when I was growing up, everyone thought highly of these guys.  We will not let anyone cast a shadow over the many good, caring Canadian anglers.  Least of all, these two. integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

Of course, each person has to decide for themselves.  I absolutely disagree that this is misuse of the internet.  Since the Canadian mainstream press have so far given these fellas free reign to spew forth their deception since the guilty pleas were entered, what choice do we have?  This is the one medium where we can say our piece to a reasonably wide audience.  To my way of thinking, this is the perfect use of this medium.  We aren’t slandering these two.  We are countering their deceipt with the facts.  These guy have lawyers with the Midas touch. They are not about to let us liable them.  What the readers do about it, is their decision and no one else’s.  I am not offended by those who choose not to participate.  But, I want to be sure that whatever the decision, it is based on fact and not fiction.         Jeff — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

                <snip

I think the analogy is they couldn’t find their behinds with both hands. — Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

Whoa Mikey….Lighten up, I don’t think Norm was intending to personally insult. He seems to have brought up some good thought-provoking questions to your original post. OK the rapist point cut a little deep, but everything else was succinct and non-inflammatory. I accept your decision to not join in the boycott, its each angler’s personal choice. I may not agree with it, but I’ll defend your right to it. For my own thoughts, these Bozos gotta go. That they are still producing this inept show is unbelievable. These clowns couldn’t catch a fish in the wilderness to save their own lives (besides they could go for months on the fat reserves these porkers have built up). I say well done, "concerned Canadian" at Fintastic fin mounts (wink, wink), the sooner they exit the TV world the better for all of us. "ambassadors of the sport and conservation" indeed…..

Response:

None other, Dave.  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All/many of the details, including their apologies, are presented in Canadian Sportfishing, Summer 1998 issue, page 6 … PS There were originally 9 charges.  A spokesman for the MNR stated:"We had a guilty plea to the main charges, so the other ones went by the wayside. It was an agreed presentation to the court,"  Can you say plea bargain?  One of their favourite things to say is: "We’ve come clean". Oh really? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada  Are we talking about Heneri and Italo Lamebrain? dave

The very same.  No problem with those bozos out here.  They were dropped from the cable system here a long time ago.  Rarely have I seen two more inept hosts.  I guess their ethics are of the same calibre.  Have no fear, friends to the north, I never did think these two represented Canadian sportfishing or sportsmanship in any way, shape or form.  I have fished with too many really good fishermen up there the believe that.  Still I appreciate that it upsets you. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.

Response:

I have seen several posts on this ng concerning the fishing show. I agree with Mr. Connor. The best way to get rid of a show is not to watch it or write about it. It will be off the air soon enough.

Response:

Norman Hirsch schrieb in Nachricht I would not defend rapists at all, I think they ought to be castrated on the spot, and shot or hung shortly thereafter whichever costs the taxpayer less money.  If your mission in life is to purposely misconstrue seriously meant posts then I am sorry for you. I was attempting to put a little perspective on the whole thing.  If you dont like my opinion that is fine, if you dont agree with my views that is also fine.  If you wish to personally insult me because of them. then piss off, I dont give a shit what you think anyway. Mike Connor

Response:

    I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

                ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline

                ((( huge snip )))

Response:

As I live the UK I havent seen the programme that you describe, but if the angling shows in the UK are anything to go by, the presenters are all jerks anyway who are only in it for the money (singing the praises of whichever tackle manufacturer gave them a freebie that week ! Mike. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I guess it all depends on perspective. Bill Clinton, risks impeachement because he got a few blow jobs on the side, lied about it and asked someone else to lie about it. It’s the same thing here. The 2 t.v. hosts, knew they were doing wrong. Others had even told them so, but they went ahead and did their deeds anyway. They don’t feel remorseful. They tried to put the blame for their actions on other people and they refuse to appear before the fishing community. Usually, I am willing to forgive and forget but I cannot do this when there is flagrant disrespect for the law by someone who must be irreproachable. If they had robbed a bank…..ok. If they were caught for drunk driving ok. However, their position does not allow margin for error in this case like this. Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht                 ((( huge snip )))     doing this sort of thing would have automatically public probably doesnt care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise, and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline                 ((( huge snip )))

Response:

<much good stuff snipped

                   <snip I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you

Bravo, Mike.   Some restraint is in order.  Sure what they did is despicable.  Easy enough to deal with.  Television is the greatest democracy going and you vote every day, every time– with the on/off switch.    I have seen this show.  These two are first class bozos and the show is poorly produced. I don’t watch it any more.  And I think, at least here in the States, there may be some others who feel the same way. It is no longer on my cable system. I worked for a TV network many years ago.  I was there when Wild Kingdom had to show a disclaimer at the end of the show which has now become familiar on a lot of "reality shows" be they nature, fishing, or hunting. It says: Scenes whether actual or recreated depict actual events."  This was supposed to let the audience know that some of the scenes were "staged" but were supposed to depict things that actually happen in nature.  It was, nevertheless, a shock to many viewers to learn that what they were watching was not 100%  "real".  That’s because the show gave the impression that everything was "real".   I have a feeling that most of the fishing shows could use this kind of disclaimer.  I know of one production where the crew arrives several days in advance and pre-fishes, often capturing and caging fish that are later used in the production whent he "star" arrives for shooting.  I resent this because there is nothing to reveal to the viewer that "it’s a fake".   Sooner or later, people get fed up with these shenanigans and the people who perpetrate them get their comeuppance– the audience abandons them and the show goes off the air.  It just takes more time and is less dramatic than "executing" the perpetrators. Hawk Autoreply address is incorrect.  Too many spammers out there.

Response:

Their names weren’t Red and Harold by any chance? Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world.

<snipped for brevity

Response:

Concerned Canadian schrieb in Nachricht

What was that supposed to mean? Gentlemen & Ladies, You must be a very concerned Canadian indeed to go to all this trouble to get these people off the air. I have heard quite a bit about this case already and many anglers are disgusted by it, judging by what I have heard. However, I think it would be a good idea if you told us who you are and gave us an E-mail address with your name etc so that we might consider carefully before carrying out your request to stir up this amount of trouble for people we dont even know.  

Agreed Direct e-mails to sponsors seems a bit drastic, and might damage far more than than just a couple of idiots who have broken the law in order to further their own silly greed for fame and money, or whatever.  

I don’t think it’s so drastic a measure, it’s done all the time. What "damage" are you suggesting might be caused? I am a passionate fisherman and find the sort of thing these people did very naughty indeed, but calling down the wrath of the combined angling internet on their heads in order to ruin them seems going a bit far.

I’m also a passionate fisherman but don’t find the proposed action going to far at all. Presumably they have already been punished by a court of law if they were convicted as you say, and I would assume that many people know of their offences in consequence, this alone ought to deter them from any further transgressions, and presumably will stop many people from watching their show ( or it might even have the reverse effect, who knows in this crazy world ? ).

Possibly I for one am not in favour of hounding people in this way. What they did may not be very nice, but you arent really naive enough to believe that nobody else on these shows and in other media do it are you ?  They just havent been caught at it yet. If these guys  were rapists or something then I might be moved to agree with you, but what they did is in my opinion a fairly minor thing compared with all the other nastiness going on in the world and does not warrant the type of sanctions you are proposing,

so apparently you are suggestion that if there is a greater crime, you shouldn’t punish the lesser crimes?   Would your defence for a rapist be to claim he wasn’t as bad as a serial rapist? where I live being caught doing this sort of thing would have automatically resulted in a loss of fishing licence for life, which would rather put the kybosh on a career in angling anyway.  

now you are contradicting yourself or don’t you believe in your  own laws? Is this not the case in Canada ?   I rather doubt that many anglers will tar all Canadians with the same brush as you are suggesting, and the general public probably doesnt  care much what anglers do,  and would not watch an angling show anyway.

I disagree. The consequences of the  action you are proposing might be more far reaching than  you realise,

like what? and while I can understand your feelings and respect your wishes for integrity on the part of public figures I for one must respectfully decline to take part in such an action. I would consider it a misuse of the internet, and there are already too many people doing that.

I respect your opinion but on the contrary, I believe the internet is a good medium for this kind of thing. — Best regards, Norman Hirsch                   Phone: 212-304-9660         NH&A                                Fax:   212-304-9759 New York, NY 10034 USA          URL: http://www.nha.com

Response:

Gentlemen & Ladies, We here in Canada have a major problem.  We have a fishing show in which the two hosts have been convicted of violating the fishing regulations and faking film footage shown for the program. They evidently do not believe anyone cares that they violated the law. This is in turn giving Canadian fishing a further bad name in the angling world. We have written letters in attempts to get the hosts to answer direct questions, they refuse to address the issue.  We have written letters in an attempt to get the show cancelled with the answer that it will remain on the air until "more negative response" is received. Host, Henry Waszczuk, was convicted of fishing bass out of season.  Both Waszczuk and co-host, Italo Labignas, were convicted of to joint charges of hooking fish in the body to so they could re-hook them in the mouth and film their retrieval for television.  Waszczuk was also charged with fishing in a sanctuary. Article available at: http://www.newsworld.cbc.ca/archive/html/1998/04/16/fish980416a.html The name of the show is Canadian Sportfishing, it is aired on TSN, The Sports Network.  They also publish a magazine called Canadian Sportfishing. Post your views at: http://www.zoo.utoronto.ca/FUN/Fish.html or news.can.rec.fishing We request that you assist us in getting these "anglers" off the air. Please write Rick Brace at the Sports Network(address below) requesting the show be cancelled.  Please write, e-mail or fax the sponsors (listed below) to pull their sponsorship of convicted fishing law violators. Please boycott their magazine. Thank you for your assistance. Concerned Canadian The Sports Network Rick Brace. Web Site URL            http://www.tsn.ca/ Audience Relations      416 490-7030 Canadian Sportfishing SPONSORS LIST Ford of Canada 1-800-565-FORD (3673)

Question:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them.

Where are you located? Jim Benenson Los Alamos, NM "To save your rivers, save your mountains" Emperor Yu of China, circa 1600 BC

Response:

: I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored : and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I : would greatly appreciate any information as to how to contact them. You might want to take some photographs of the books and describe them in detail and send the letter to Sotheby’s auction house, Fine Books and Manuscript Department in New York City. If they are something very valuable like Isaak Walton first editions or something, they will let you know the value and offer you a chance to sell them. In general, collectors don’t wan’t any ‘restoration’ work, so I would send the letter before you have it done. —

Response:

I have some very old fishing and fly tying books that I need to have restored and appraised. If anyone knows of a business that does this kind of work I

Appraisal is necessary first, so you can decide if (expensive) restoration is justified.  There are few specialized antiquarian fishing book dealers, but small ads in back of (US) Fly Fisherman or (British) Trout and Salmon may allow you to locate one near you.  For bookbinders, consult any big university library:  they both have theses and new journals bound into books and repair old books. Age is important but does not directly correlate with price, cf. also difficulty of conserving books on acidic wood-pulp paper (from late 19th century onwards.) — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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Question:

<snip but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing.<snip

The loops are for little cable retracter thingys to attach to, which in turn attach to yer fly floatant and nippers, etc…. (:-) Jim

Response:

I just bought a really coool Columbia shirt with all kinds of niffty pockets with Velcro closures and stuff, but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing. We don’t know much about fly-fishing down here in Texas.  In fact, our idea of fishing is to set a tub of clean water down by a muddy creek and wack the fish on the head with sticks as they wiggle up on the bank trying to get to the clean water. Thanks, Gary Joe

Gary,         Those are called ’stringers’, and are used to ’string up’ the guy wearing the shirt for being an elitist, yuppie flyfisherperson.  You’ll notice that the location of the loops prevents the wearer of the shirt from reaching the attaching harness to get loose.  Once the elitist, yuppie flyfisherperson (EYF) is strung up the rest is like shooting fish in a tub of clean water!  :^) Charley

Response:

I just bought a really coool Columbia shirt with all kinds of niffty pockets with Velcro closures and stuff, but it also has these heavy nylon cord loops on both sleaves and on the back.  What are these used for?  I think it’s some kind of fly-fishing kind of thing. We don’t know much about fly-fishing down here in Texas.  In fact, our idea of fishing is to set a tub of clean water down by a muddy creek and wack the fish on the head with sticks as they wiggle up on the bank trying to get to the clean water. Thanks, Gary Joe      <Opinions expressed and/or implied are not necessarily those of UPR         "I don’t know why I do stuff…I just do it."  - Bart Simpson

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Question:

I am looking for flyfishing spots within 1hour drive of arlington,va to fish with my 8 year old son. Ideally, looking for spots with parking available within 1mile of site-please e-mail thx

Response:

As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

Ok.  You’ll hear people write about the Patapsco, Potomac, Hunting Creek and others around DC. The Pat and the Pot have some Smallmouth, the Pat a few put-n-take  trout in the Spring.  Hunting Creek is worthless as a trout fishery — it’s become one of the great disappointments in Maryland because of uncontrolled flow  – meaning very little flow (so don’t waste your time driving to Thurmont unless you want to see some pretty scenary).   Set your sights on the Gunpowder in northern Baltimore county, below Prettyboy reservoir.    Best thing going (within a couple hours of DC, anyway). One rule:  Put them back unharmed.  Thanks. J

Response:

I know of the big hunting creek in the Cotoctin mountain. There are also a few others in the area. I’ve been there a couple of times but i’m not sure of the highway that goes there. I do know that it is near FREDERICK and THURMONT MD. It is about an hour drive from DC. I suggest you look at a map or better yet call a local fly shop. tight lines mike* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As someone who travels to DC often, I’d like to know about any nearby flyfishing, too. Please post replies or include me in the e-mail. Thanks! Rod Forth

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Question:

Sorry if this is a re-post, but I never saw my original post, so here I go again: The other day I found an old South Bend bamboo fly rod at an antique shop.  The rod it self was in pretty good shape, but the guides and grip were shot.  It has a plastic reel seat with slip rings, and the cork grip has grooves in it, spaced about 1 inch apart.  It’s a 3- piece and each piece is of equal length. My question is this:  I would like to rebuild the rod and fish with it, since I doubt the rod has any collectable potential.  Does anyone know about these South Bend rods, and would it be worth my effort and expense to rebuild it and fish with it?  The shop wants $65.

Steve, Depends on whether you’re more interested in refinishing it or fishing it.    Some South Bends were ok, others were not.  If you want to start this as another hobby, $65 is a cheap investment and not much loss if you screw it up.   Some things to look for – are the pieces straight? If not you’re going to have to strip the varnish too because you have to use an alcohol lamp to heat it up to straighten it.  Are the ferrules still tight?  How’s the varnish – chipped, bumpy (alligatored)?  Check each piece carefully for delamination of the strips and "hook digs".   If you’re interested, I can give you the name of a rod dealer who carries "handyman’s specials". Ross

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Of course it’s worth it. I keep and fish several old "mediocre" uncollectible rods with no market or collector value just for the fun of variety. I can think of few things more worthless than a rod which is never used. Cheers, Ken. — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Steve, Ken is right.  Go for it.  If you are interested in it at all, claim the rod.  There’s a distinct difference between "restoration" and "repair".   You’ve taken the obvious precautions to make sure you aren’t taking a chance on a collectible, so give it a try.  Take your time, think ahead, be careful, and you will find that your efforts will be well worth it. Think of this:  You’re on a trout stream.  You’re fishing with a rod made by an anonymous someone who may have built your rod long before your time.   You rescued that rod from obscurity and added somethinng of yourself to it.  You catch and release a fish.  What better way to recognize that original maker and your sport? Another book for reference is "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod" by Stuart Kirkfield (Stackpole Books).  It sets a reasonable thought pattern on what has to be done.  Good luck! –

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Sorry if this is a re-post, but I never saw my original post, so here I go again: The other day I found an old South Bend bamboo fly rod at an antique shop.  The rod it self was in pretty good shape, but the guides and grip were shot.  It has a plastic reel seat with slip rings, and the cork grip has grooves in it, spaced about 1 inch apart.  It’s a 3- piece and each piece is of equal length. My question is this:  I would like to rebuild the rod and fish with it, since I doubt the rod has any collectable potential.  Does anyone know about these South Bend rods, and would it be worth my effort and expense to rebuild it and fish with it?  The shop wants $65. Thanks in advance for any responses.  Feel free to e-mail me. Steve –  A sunny day,       a box of midges,          and a wandering stream…    Man, this MUST be heaven!    <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Pick up the book titled" Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" by Mike Sinclair. It is by far the best book out about this subject. All your questions will be answered.  If you can’t find it e-mail me and I’ll give you info. By the way 65 dollars to rebuild a cane rod is awfully cheap. Id look at a rod they had restored before turning them loose on my cane rod.             Mark Heskett

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Question:

I am new to fly fishing and would like to acquire some good quality equipment.  However, I am unable to mortgage the house for new gear.  I am interested in a 8 1/2′ to 9′ rod, 5-6 wt (Sage, Loomis, ect quality) and a reel (Abel, Ross, ect).  Please let me know of any  used gear that you would like to sell or any advice which you would like to pass along. I guarantee that the gear  will continue to see years of enjoyment!

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I am new to fly fishing and would like to acquire some good quality equipment.  However, I am unable to mortgage the house for new gear.  I am interested in a 8 1/2′ to 9′ rod, 5-6 wt (Sage, Loomis, ect quality) and a reel (Abel, Ross, ect).  Please let me know of any  used gear that you would like to sell or any advice which you would like to pass along.

You could save a small bundle by buying an SA System II or an Orvis Battenkill reel.  They are both very pleasant to use, and blessed with smooth, powerful drags.  You will not wear them out, and they can be purchased new for less than the price of a used Abel.   From what I can gather, there is something of a consensus on the net; given a limited budget you are better off investing the lion’s share of your money in your rod rather than in your reel. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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