I think that it’s also true that you should use the smallest indicator you can get away with. The larger it is the more information it will mask.
I agree. There’s stuff called ’strike putty’ you can get from Orvis. You can put a very little of it on, say, a knot in the leader; a good guide if you’ve lost sight of what’s going on. Lazarus — Lazarus Cooke
What about a short length of the bricklayer’s twine you use for running line, or is that too large an inside diameter? — Charlie…
I can
I’m going to be in Hawaii and Kauai in February. Are there any Saltwater Fly fishing opportunities there I haven’t read much on Fly Fishing in Hawaii. Thanks J.S.
I’m going to be in Hawaii and Kauai in February. Are there any Saltwater Fly fishing opportunities there I haven’t read much on Fly Fishing in Hawaii. Thanks J.S.
J.S., I was in hawaii on the island of Oahu, I was a beginner to the sport of fly fishing. I looked and listened for anything that I could find on the art. I didnt find that much. However, I have seen shows on fly fishing where they were fly fishing for Bone Fish. There are definitely bone fish all over the hawaiian islands. Would probably have to look for the flats, of course, as that is where they usually hang out. I dont know the exact fly types they used, but they were there. I was in hawaii for 3 years in the military. It was a good long time of fishing, but like I said, not much for fly fishing. Also, there is a freshwater lake on Oahu that I did fly fish, but again, I was new into the whole fly fishing genre. The lake was stocked with Peacock Bass. Not very big from what I could see, but there were some lunkers in there, I am pretty sure. I have a buddy that is stationed out there right now, I will check with him to see if he can find anything out about it, specifically for the islands you mentioned. Cant promise anything, cause I dont know how much he will look, but I will drop it on him anyway.
I will be in Mitchell SD for opening day of phesant season next week. Does anyone know of any good areas near Mitchell that I could do a little fishing?
4 hours drive to the black hills. Some trout in the missouri river below the dam (damn?) near Pierre (2 hour drive). Bass in Lake Mitchell. steve haun sioux falls, sd
I will be in Mitchell SD for opening day of phesant season next week. Does anyone know of any good areas near Mitchell that I could do a little
fishing?
Just outside of Rapid City are two lovely streams that hold good fish and have excellent hatches. Spring Creek and Rapid Creek. They are really worth fishing.
Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. —
I agree wholeheartedly! I got this combo in July and I’m very pleased with it. Bill (:=[ ] open wide something bogus to avoid spam)
– Bill D. (:=[ ] open wide
Years of being a gear slave has taught me that some very nice rods can hide in the strangest places. A buddy got a drugstore rod for $50 that is actually a lot of fun. Generally, though, you get what you pay for, one way or the other. Warranties, for instance. Spend $125 or so and go St Croix, Reddington Redd Start or some others and get a lifetime replacement warranty. I don’t know about Cabella’s but for a $50 rod it would be surprising. Also: just because it is a 3-wt rod, made of Graphite XXII or whatever, doesn’t mean it was well-designed or casts worth a poop. Good engineering really does tell. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Years of being a gear slave has taught me that some very nice rods can hide in the strangest places. A buddy got a drugstore rod for $50 that is actually a lot of fun. Generally, though, you get what you pay for, one way or the other. Warranties, for instance. Spend $125 or so and go St Croix, Reddington Redd Start or some others and get a lifetime replacement warranty. I don’t know about Cabella’s but for a $50 rod it would be surprising. Also: just because it is a 3-wt rod, made of Graphite XXII or whatever, doesn’t mean it was well-designed or casts worth a poop. Good engineering really does tell. Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam
I have a Cabelas 3 forks 3wt 3piece combo (rod,reel,line, and leader) costs on sale $50.00. the reel is a bit large being for a 5 to 7 wt. and the line supplied could be better. I’ve had it to NC for trout twice, use it a good bit for panfish and small bass here and it has never let me down. Believe me a big crappie or 14" large mouth on a three weight is a hoot. When it comes to someone who needs to watch the bucks but wants to get into fly fishing for panfish and smallish trout I always recommend this combo. The alternative is the loss of another fly fisherman. By the way I made a tube for it out of a window blind cardboard tube and is a constant compannion. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam
Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod?
Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. — something bogus to avoid spam)
Hi, I’d agree. My buddy has the 7′6" 3 forks combo and really likes the rod. I think its around $50 for rod, reel, backing, line, and a leader. He basically threw away the reel, line, backing, and leader (which are of pretty poor quality… but what do you expect?) and ended up with just a $50 rod, but really likes it. Good luck. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get the Three Forks combo. It’s even cheaper, and it’s a fabulous value. — something bogus to avoid spam)
Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam
I have a cabelas 3wt 6′6". Whole shebang (line reel rod) is now on designed for including some right nice sized rainbows (up to but not yet inclusive of 4lbs) 3 hand size (10" long) panfish and a couple of bass over 11".A real blast on these size fish. It’s the three forks combo model 763, order #tx-31-1504-763. I can tell you it is a great rod within it’s limits, the reel is a 567 so a bit large but is extremely light (graphite). I don’t think you can beat it for bang/buck buying. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
Thanks to everyone for the replies. It sounds unanimous – Three Forks it is! And for even less money than I had intended to spend… Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi – I’m looking for an inexpensive 3 wt rod for occasional use for panfish and trout small enough to not need my normal 5 wt. rod. Cabela’s has a Greenwood combo, with rod, reel and line for under $100. Granted, at that price I’m not expecting tremendous quality, but price is a limiting factor right now, and I’ve never heard much about Cabela’s rods. Anyone ever cast or have any experience with this rod? TIA, Sam I have a cabelas 3wt 6′6". Whole shebang (line reel rod) is now on designed for including some right nice sized rainbows (up to but not yet inclusive of 4lbs) 3 hand size (10" long) panfish and a couple of bass over 11".A real blast on these size fish. It’s the three forks combo model 763, order #tx-31-1504-763. I can tell you it is a great rod within it’s limits, the reel is a 567 so a bit large but is extremely light (graphite). I don’t think you can beat it for bang/buck buying. John Popp in Sanford Fl.
I’m considering getting a spey type rod for SW fishing in Maine. I fish a lot of tidal rivers. Any suggestions on types of lines to consider (shooting heads or just a plain floating line ?) My main reason for considering a 2 handed rod is to not get so worn out flailing the water with my conventional 9 wt rod. I’ve never used a 2 handed rod but understand that it can be more efficient. Or should I just sit down and smoke a cigarette instead of beating the water to a froth when the fish aren’t biting ; ^). Thanks John
I’m considering getting a spey type rod for SW fishing in Maine. I fish a lot of tidal rivers. Any suggestions on types of lines to consider (shooting heads or just a plain floating line ?) My main reason for considering a 2 handed rod is to not get so worn out flailing the water with my conventional 9 wt rod. I’ve never used a 2 handed rod but understand that it can be more efficient. Or should I just sit down and smoke a cigarette instead of beating the water to a froth when the fish aren’t biting ; ^). Thanks John
John, Spey rods can work great in northeast saltwater. Doug Jowett, a well-known and respected guide in the Brunswick, Maine area recommends them. I haven’t used one yet, but I know what you mean about wearing out your shoulder on the 9 wt.
Hi ! PFMJI, but the theme touches me too. I just ordered a two-handed rod, that felt very easy to throw and is a good overhead casting machine, but I doubt it’ll be a good Speycasting device, nor I expect it to be good at windy conditions. Mine will be a G.Loomis GLX 11′ 6" 8/9 wt. Does anybody have expierience with casting such short 2-handed sticks? Isn’t, for Speycasting in particular, a longer Doublehanded rod nesseccary ? Thus, I doubt, a twohanded rod is a _good_ SW-Rod because of it’s _average_ length linked with the mostly windy conditions. So I expect it to be more tiring than a shorter rod. Any expieriences ? Thanks for your time
Just bought an Orvis Silver 15′ 10 wt. fast action for sw use in Florida, both for shore fishing fast tide water in passes and for casting to Tarpon, Redfish and Snook from a boat. Neat thing of the two hander is the ability to throw 60′ to 80′ with no backcast ( a modified roll cast) thereby not jeprodizing beach walkers and others on board when fishing from a boat. Have spent 4 to 5 hours at a time blind casting with a conventional 9 ft.12 wt. for Tarpon and a 9 ft. 9 wt. for Snook and Reds and can verify that the two hander, while a bit unwieldy to store and handle aboard a small boat, is sure a lot less tiring to use for extended periods. Largest fish so far was a 25# Sting Ray(ugh) on a 12# tippet which was beached and released in about 10 minutes, and a long line release of a Tarpon (50#??) after two jumps and about 10 minutes. I’m sold on it for certain conditions.
Just bought an Orvis Silver 15′ 10 wt. fast action for sw use in Florida, both for shore fishing fast tide water in passes and for casting to Tarpon, Redfish and Snook from a boat. Neat thing of the two hander is the ability to throw 60′ to 80′ with no backcast ( a modified roll cast) thereby not jeprodizing beach walkers and others on board when fishing from a boat. Have spent 4 to 5 hours at a time blind casting with a conventional 9 ft.12 wt. for Tarpon and a 9 ft. 9 wt. for Snook and Reds and can verify that the two hander, while a bit unwieldy to store and handle aboard a small boat, is sure a lot less tiring to use for extended periods. Largest fish so far was a 25# Sting Ray(ugh) on a 12# tippet which was beached and released in about 10 minutes, and a long line release of a Tarpon (50#??) after two jumps and about 10 minutes. I’m sold on it for certain conditions.
Hi Jay, We will be using two handed, 14′ rods for Shad in the American River this spring. I think it will be good practice for Steelhead and Atlantic Salmon fishing. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com
I am new to flyfishing and heard through a local fly shop that a women’s organization is starting up in the Phoenix,AZ area. I left my info w/ someone’s husband at the shop but haven’t heard anything. maybe someone out there knows who I can contact. My husband doesn’t really fly fish, but I expect I’ll have him converted soon.
scribed: I am new to flyfishing and heard through a local fly shop that a women’s organization is starting up in the Phoenix,AZ area. I left my info w/ someone’s husband at the shop but haven’t heard anything. maybe someone out there knows who I can contact. My husband doesn’t really fly fish, but I expect I’ll have him converted soon. Yes…you sound as if you will. Whether he wants it or not. – "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume
That is exactly my point: if he chooses not to convert from baitcasting, that’s fine, which is exactly why I’d like to follow up on this info. If he chooses not to join me in my new found hobby, I would like to find a place where friendly FF information is available. I’d like to think that once he sees how much fun it is, he’d like to come along. If not, that shouldn’t impede my quest for knowledge or a nice walk in a creek.
For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted? Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?
CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES
CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES
what do you wnat to see? naked fish?
: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM
someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?
Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp. Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus Maynard, Massachusetts < < Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited" < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely to be shared by my employer, etc…
TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".
Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related. Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=- (Santa Smiley) -Clyde
someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?
No, but I will… TimW
Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".
<SNIP are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit. I would be real surprised if Montana planted any fish. Because of the good population of brown trout, which are resistant to WD, they still have fish in the infected rivers. Besides,wasn’t Montana the first state to figure out that people will travel long distances to catch "wild" fish?
I don’t mean to change the subject, but the original question has recently become even more intriguing than when I originally posed it. The Yellowstone is the last wild river in the lower 48, but that doesn’t seem to be so important now that a few springcreeks have succumbed to what wild rivers naturally do on occasion (flood and change that is). Stocking wild rivers when the rainbows disappear is similar to damming wild rivers when the largely man-made springcreeks disappear. They are both justified with tourist dollars. Of course it remains to be seen what they will actually do on the Yellowstone. I am a cynic but I hope I am wrong. -al
<SNIP are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.
I would be real surprised if Montana planted any fish. Because of the good population of brown trout, which are resistant to WD, they still have fish in the infected rivers. Besides,wasn’t Montana the first state to figure out that people will travel long distances to catch "wild" fish? Do you think people would travel long distances to catch hatchery planters?? I can see the ads now: "Come to Big Sky Country to catch our imitation rainbows reared in concrete runways by the thousands and behaviourly modified with regular feedings of Purina Trout Chow (floating variety – a reddish brown color). The "hot" fly this week (and every week) – either a brown Goddard Caddis with the hackle and antenna removed or a size10 brown beetle. If the fish aren’t rising just throw out a handful of pea gravel (sounds like PTC hitting the water). Guaranteed to make them rise (and since your fly is the only thing floating they’ll hit it thinking it’s PTC). Come on down!" I guarantee you I wouldn’t and I don’t think very many people would – and they know that. Just my .02 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again. So what if they eat other fish? If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer. Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking? Years? Decades? Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation? Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely? It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn. Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected. While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite. After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit. I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al
I am not an expert, but I have read that whirling disease has been around for over 200 years since it was first discovered in Europe. So our environment has been successfully dealing with it for quiet a while. It can be spread by man and animals, so if fishing were banned, it would still migrate to new streams. I was fortunate enough to talk to a very experinced guide in Montana a few weeks ago. His opinion on the disease is that its effects are minimal, and that the low count of frey is due to the extended fishing season ( to bring in the tourist bucks) and the trampling of the spawning beds by well intentioned fishermen. H.Payne
The spring creeks aren’t largely man made…they had allways existed and had fallen into disrepair from years of neglect and cattle grazing…they have been rehabilitated by man…veggitation restored, silt removed, etc…I will be very surprised if Montana increases it’s stocking program…there is no need…it’s so ironic that EVERYONE is SO concerned with whirling disease when the biggest threat to our Montana fisheries remains water quality….stop the Seven-Up Pete mine on the Blackfoot…restore the pre 1994 water quality standards!!!
These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion…
I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch
Al, The discussions I’ve monitored predict that a certain percentage of the population will be resistant to WD. These fish will reproduce, passing on their resistance. After a few generations, equilibrium will be restored. If we leave nature alone, she’ll do what she has done for million of years– repair and improve herself. But then, my boss calls me a stary-eyed optomist! Tight lines, Charley
Jonathan Cook’s response has indicated -and there is evidence from several Eastern and Western states to substantiate this- that the presence of the parasite does not immediately lead to the symptoms of infections, eg skeletal deformations, ‘whirling’, black tail. Whether or not this means that a resident population has developed an immune response to the parasite is still debatable. Published reports indicate that there is some antibody response to the presence of the parasite, however this may or may not lead to removal of the parasite by known immune response pathways. The primary reason whirling disease is so devastating is the attack on skelatal material that has not ossified. So survival/morbidity depends on the presence of the parasite, its apparent mandatory passage through the intermediate host, the Tubifex worm, the release of the infectious stage of the parasite, and attachment to the host fish–all at a time when the fish has not undergone ossification of the site of attack (the spine and some head skeleton regions). So survival is dependent on the life histories of the parasite, its intermediate host and the main host. All of the fish so far discussed are at risk, although there is a gradation that increases from browns to cutts to rainbows. Someone rightly pointed out that the primary target for the present are rainbows which are the progeny of planted fish – I believe but am not sure that Montana stopped planting fish in rivers in the late 70’s, but continue to do so in lakes in the state. I am more concerned on the fate of native, wild fish (eg the cutts) than those that have been moved from other locations (the rainbow and brown). Don
I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? My guess is that yes, this is a big factor in susceptibility. A high gradient stream doesn’t play good host to the tubifex worm, and is less fertile in general. Thus, the WD spore concentration will be less during the ossification period of the young trout’s skeleton. More trout live, and the overall affect is less. I’d say a good example of this is the Big Thompson. Very little effect.
Or the Roaring Fork ? TimW
These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch
One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Darryl Hayashida
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away.
Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion… I have heard that rivers with a substantial elevation drop are less susceptible to WD. Can anyone verify this? Thanks, Mitch One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW
Not really. ’Cuz the fish killed by WD are fry that you wouldn’t catch anyway. ’Course, I suppose larger fish could be host to it without being killed by it. But, taking all the fish out of the system to save the system, somehow, seems short-sighted to me. Tight lines and straight fish, Charley
. Most hard-hit waters are tailwaters — no runoff, constant temps, and lots of moss and mud for tubifex worms (the other host).
Hi Jon, and now Gas Bubble disease can be added to the list of problems in tailwaters. A recent study on the Colorado River states: …Trout sampled exhibited higher symptoms of both whirling disease and gas bubble trauma in stream sections with high saturation levels than those with lower saturation levels. These results indicate a combined effect of whirling disease and gas bubble trauma is affecting young -of-the-year rainbow and brown trout in the study area. regards, Mike
Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida
how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy) — phone +303-492-3504 | Dept. of Chemistry & Biochemistry fax +303-492-5894 | University of Colorado at Boulder
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer. Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking? Years? Decades? Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation? Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely? It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn. Are steelhead susceptible? Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected. While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite. After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit. I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al
Al, The discussions I’ve monitored predict that a certain percentage of the population will be resistant to WD. These fish will reproduce, passing on their resistance. After a few generations, equilibrium will be restored. If we leave nature alone, she’ll do what she has done for million of years– repair and improve herself. But then, my boss calls me a stary-eyed optomist! Tight lines, Charley
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy) In the area I fish in, a stocker is a 10 to 12 inch rainbow with tattered fins and a dark almost black back.They all look the same, as if they were cranked out by an assembly line. The fins are tattered because they grow up packed into a concrete pen where their fins rub against the walls and each other. The hatchery fish also tend to nip each others fins. Probably out of irritation or maybe lack of anything else to do. Their backs are black because the have no way to get out of the sun and fish skin reacts to strong sunlight just like human skin does – increased melanin, or in other words, a suntan. Darryl Hayashida
Here in Oregon, the hatchery workers clip the adipose fin (the one located on the back behind the main (dorsal?) fin). Andy Clark Albany, OR
Text deleted… In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike
We are talking about two different animals here. In my disscusions with fishery biologists in the area I fish in, I found out that the hatchery fish have a very low survival rate. On the order of 2 to 3 percent. One of the reasons is that the "catchable" size stocked is 10 to 12 inches. Any fish raised for the better portion of a year on Purina Trout Chow isn’t going to recognize a caddis or mayfly or a nymph as food. All I’m saying is in my area stockers are going to die anyway, so you might as well keep them. This is probably different in your area. Also, the area I fish in has had WD for decades. It still has wild trout. They seem to be resistant, and C&R seems to be a positive factor, preserving resistant fish to breed, not a cause of spreading WD. Go ahead and post your rebuttal, and I will read it, but this debate will probably go on for years and we, at least I, can’t do a darned thing about WD. So, if you don’t mind, I respectfully bow out of this discussion. I only entered into it again to answer the question on why it appears steep stream gradients don’t have a WD problem. Darryl Hayashida
Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida how do you distinguish a hatchery fish from a wild one ? just curious (i’m a strict C&R guy)
In the area I fish in, a stocker is a 10 to 12 inch rainbow with tattered fins and a dark almost black back.They all look the same, as if they were cranked out by an assembly line. The fins are tattered because they grow up packed into a concrete pen where their fins rub against the walls and each other. The hatchery fish also tend to nip each others fins. Probably out of irritation or maybe lack of anything else to do. Their backs are black because the have no way to get out of the sun and fish skin reacts to strong sunlight just like human skin does – increased melanin, or in other words, a suntan. Darryl Hayashida
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As far as a hatrchery fish goes, if the fish was raised in a WD negative hatchery (or born in the wild) and placed in a WD positive stream it would never exhibit signs of WD but could carry millions of spores until its death. But a fish raised in a "lightly infected" WD positve hatchery may only be exposed to a few spores, at which time the fish becomes immune to WD, and the spore load never increases. Which fish should is the healthiest? In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike
Now, Mike. Building strawmen arguments and then knocking them down is a crude and not very supportable method of proving your point. Yes, if I accept that only the two scenarios you’ve outlined exist, your choice is superior. However, it is possible that a wild trout, or one introduced from a hatchery, may inhabit a "lightly infected" WD positive stream and provide an immunity to WD that is commensurate with your hypothetical Hatchery Fish. After all, this is Mother Nature we’re discussing here. She’s anything but linear! I believe that hatcheries have their place, as do wild runs. I believe that catch and release is a tools, and should be used with an awareness of the appropriate application of that tool and its potential short-comings. I believe Flyfishing, much like Monday Night Football, has become much too popular, and in its popularity has suffered from many individuals trying to define it to fit into their paradigm. It’s still just fishing. Tight Lines, Charley
No, because if you have just caught a fish that appears healthy, then it either has WD or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then put it back. If it does, then it might be one of the few fish that are resistant to WD, and if it lives to reproduce, the resistance will be passed on to its offspring. Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it.
There is absolutely no way to tell if a fish has WD or not, except for the very young fish who were exposed before ther cartilage had formed. These young fish will have deformed spines, heads, and blackened tails. However they do not live very long as they are easy prey, poor competitors, or die as a result of WD. On the other hand an older fish that is exposed my carry millions of spores and never show any signs. When they die they release these spores that invade the Tubifex worm (intermediate host) that later releases the spores that harm the very young fish. As far as a hatrchery fish goes, if the fish was raised in a WD negative hatchery (or born in the wild) and placed in a WD positive stream it would never exhibit signs of WD but could carry millions of spores until its death. But a fish raised in a "lightly infected" WD positve hatchery may only be exposed to a few spores, at which time the fish becomes immune to WD, and the spore load never increases. Which fish should is the healthiest? In the end it will be the hatchery raised WD exposed fish that has the best chance of survival and passing on resistance to its offspring. regards, Mike
<snip A recent study on the Colorado River states:..Trout sampled exhibited higher symptoms of both whirling disease and gas bubble traum=
a in stream sections with high saturation levels than those with lower saturation levels. <snip What exactly is gas bubble trauma? Is this an effect in aerated hydraulics on ??? gills, body surface, or ???? Please elucidate. Jon
One of the stages in the WD parasites’ life is in the tubifex worm. These worms live in the mud on the bottom of a river. A large elevation drop generally means faster water, and no mud accumulation. No mud, no worms, no place for the WD parasite to accumulate. Also faster water means a dead rotting WD infested carcass doesn’t go to the bottom to spread it’s spores. It gets swept away. Does this latter posit a positive argument for catch and kill ? TimW
No, because if you have just caught a fish that appears healthy, then it either has WD or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then put it back. If it does, then it might be one of the few fish that are resistant to WD, and if it lives to reproduce, the resistance will be passed on to its offspring. Of course, this applies to wild fish. If it’s a hatchery fish, keep it. Darryl Hayashida
Just my $0.02, and I expect I’ll get a flame or two for this. Rainbows are native to Pacific coast streams. Sure they grow to a large size, but anytime you transplant fish from their place of origin to a new area, you’re taking a big risk. Not only are the organisms not adapted to all the vagaraties of the new habiat, even if the populations do thrive, but the other organisms in the new habitat are also not adapted to the imported species. Cutthroats are native to the Rocky Mountain streams. They evolved there, in consort with all of the other organisms in the ecosystem. It would make more sense to revitalize the cutthroat populations, especially with all of their interesting subspecies, than to keep relying on alien species. Likewise I would rather see more brook trout in eastern streams. Jesse M. Purvis
I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer. Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking? Years? Decades? Never? Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation? Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely? It seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn. Are steelhead susceptible? Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected. While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite. After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit. I hope this initiates some useful discussion. -al
These responses are part fact and part my own distilled opinion. However, I did attend the WD conference in Denver back in Feb, and have read alot of the papers that were discussed there, so I think I’m reasonably well-informed. I have a few questions about whirling disease I hope someone knowledgeable can answer. Any realistic estimates on how long it would take a river that has been hit hard by the disease (the Madison for example) to recover naturally without stocking? Years? Decades? Never?
No one knows – can be any of the above. Depends on what you mean by recover, and on what it is recovering from. However, keep reading, the news isn’t that bad. Will the parasite die off after a period with no juvenile rainbows, making the river suitable for repopulation?
Apparently, yes. Utah killed off a river counting on this. CA has seen watersheds go from testing positive for WD to negative over several years, too. Can a significant portion of fry survive to sexual maturity, or does reproduction halt completely? It
Yes, a significant portion can survive. It depends on how saturated the water is with WD; and that depends on river conditions. My bet is that many rivers in the west will not support heavy concentrations of WD (ie, enough to drastically affect the rainbow population). Most hard-hit waters are tailwaters — no runoff, constant temps, and lots of moss and mud for tubifex worms (the other host). seems to me that by the time the river recovers to a point that it is suitable for a rainbow population again that the surviving trout, if any, would be too old to spawn.
I am pretty sure that fish spawn all of their adult life. In fact, the older and bigger they are, the more eggs they produce. They just keep getting better! Are steelhead susceptible?
Probably. Let’s suppose that it is only a matter of time before all the wild rainbow fisheries in the west are affected. While it is awful to imagine, it seems realistic unless we find a way to kill the parasite. After all, rivers that are not stocked have been infected, so it is spreading somehow.
Yeah, but don’t worry about it. I don’t think it’ll spread as fast as in the past, and, as above, there are many rivers that probably won’t see population crashes, due to the nature of the river itself. Besides, the rainbow isn’t native in much of the west anyways. Its just the CA$H fish — maybe ol’ T-Bone will get his wish of less-crowded waters, after all. Most states will reestablish rainbow populations by stocking hatchery-raised fish or establish populations of other species to replace the lost rainbows, correct? Any guesses on how long Montana’s policy of not stocking wild rivers will last when their tourist industry takes such a hit? On the same subject, what would be Idaho’s reaction if/when the Henry’s Fork is hit.
I don’t think they’ll need to stock. Remember, the Madison was already over 50% browns, so its not like there’s no fish left. Probably Henry’s Fork too. But who knows, I could be wrong. There are many states and many rivers already infected. Overall, it has been very few rivers that have seen population crashes. And these rivers ARE NOT NATURAL. The upper Colorado, the Madison, others in Colorado, do not have natural flows. I don’t think WD will devastate the west. Jon.
Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands
Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands.
Hello Herman, There are plenty of "middle-range" fly rods to chose from. I would suggest on of the companies that gives a lifetime warranty. Some of these rods include the Sage DS series and Redington. They run about $255 for the Sage 590 DS kit which includes rod, reel, line and backing. The Redington rods run about $105. Good luck with your fishing and Congratulations on the new child. Paul Johnson
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all you FF addicts, I have been a lurker for too long on this list, let me introduce myself. I am a Dutch flyfisher, fishing & tying my own flies for about six or seven years now (somehow I lost track). I fish mainly in Holland for anything that eats flies and nymphs, and once or twice (if lucky) a year abroad for trout and grayling. I will try to attend the Flyfair at the 4th and the 5th of May in Holland. I say try, because I hope my firstborn-to-be will behave itself and will be born nicely on the calculated date, one week later. Anyway, I intend to buy a new rod there, a 9 foot AFTMA 5-6, and would appreciate your opinions on what to buy and what not. Money IS kind of a subject for me, so I’m looking at the middle range brands. TIA and tight lines, Herman Nijland Utrecht, Netherlands
OK, good luck with your boy/girl?, anyway (you should already think abot looking for a second rod, I think it makes a great gift for= the first birthday). OK, here some suugestions for you. Since I appreciate SAGE fly rods very much (that’s simply because they are = the best performing fly rods made here in the USA) I would suggest to look at their rods. Since you are looking for something in the= middle price range have a closer look at the DS series- they are in the mid price range and perform real well. OK, SAGE makes faste= r and more powerful rods, but they cost twice as much. The DS series has a medium fast action with still lots of backbone and is ver= y pleasant to cast. They have a 5wt in 8 and 9ft, also in 4 piece (4piece is maybe worth a thought if you travel with your rod- e.g.= graylingfishing in denmark (Velje Au etc…) or the mountain lakes in Jotunheimen in Norway!). Since you are in europe you will probably also see european rod makers. Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling= series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!). If you have the = chance cast a M3, thats their high end (unfortunately high price) rod series – IMO the best on the market (it’s very similar to the = SAGE SP series, only better!). If you like the slow rods more look at Hardys Favourite FT (the FT is important since it means that this is the fast action series, = the normal Favourite is too slow). They are not real fast rods, but comparatively fast rods for a Hardy rod. In general Hardy rods a= re relatively slow rods but they cast like a dream. But don’t try to pick up 20 m of line with them, they won’t do the job (OK, with= special pick up techniques you can overcome this problem to a certain point.- They are nice dry fly rods or small nymph rods but no= t pleasant to fish with streamers or other heavy stuff and they are to slow for fast alpine sreams.). Hope that helps Thomas
In a message about ‘Re: New rod??’, Thomas Urbig Have a closer look at RST (Made in Germany). The RST feeling series is in the mid price range and they are all exceptional rods (I personally would prefer it even over SAGE!).
You gotta be kidding! The RST rods I’ve tried can’t come close to any Sage’s shadow. RST rods feels very unresponsive as well as extremly stiff. For affordable rods, I’d try the Penns. Haven’t tried the new Redingtons. The first series didn’t impress me. CU, Jay Lee (Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands)
Hi, Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" which really is a bargain at $70. Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? Cheers, Pete. — Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081 Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910
: Hi, : Somebody posted an article in this thread where he/she gave a good opinion : on the "St.Croix" rods (I can’t find the article in the group anymore). : Anyway; I would like to know if the rod referred to was the "pro series" : which really is a bargain at $70. Yep. : Any other thoughts on the St.Croix rods?? The 4-piece travel rods are a fabulous value. I haven’t tried the higher-end models. –mike
I own several st.croix flyrods. for the past 6yrs i think there great rods for the money. i’ve had one break while salmon fishing.my dealer sent it back and they sent me a naw one at no cost.and the rod they sent me was the next step up from the one i had break.so for me for the money there the rod to have.
I pretreat as I tie to avoid the gumming up problem Ralph refers too. I use any paste floatant on my fingers as an example when spinning fur on thread to dub a body, or run a dry fly hackle thru thumb and forefinger after having dipped thumb in floatant. Works better for me than soaking in liqids(water seal, scotchguard or whatever) Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state." Tom McGuane
Hi Michael- Cool idea. I’ll give it a try. Thanks! -Ralph —
Can anyone, particularly those of you who tie large quantities of flies, tell me what I can use to coat my dry flies. I have tied several hundred dry flies this winter and want to apply that initial coat. I know I can buy dry fly silicone mucilin at my fly shop, but I would like more than just a small bottle. I have been told that Thompsons Water Seal can be used, as well as the silicon spray used to water treat clothes. Is Thompson ok to use? What else is out there? What do you mass tyier use? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
I soak my dry flies in liquid silicone. It’s avialable from large automotive supply houses, etc. It’s less expensive than the stuff from the fly shop. Good luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
I used to pretreat my flies but finally made the decision to stop. Silicone products leave a tackiness on the flies. This tackiness gets transferred to the fly box. Once a fly is used, algae and other bits of grime adhere to it and get carried into the flybox. In the coarse of a season this grime builds up and pretty soon the whole box has a sticky dirt coating its interior walls and the flies float worse than they would if they hadn’t been treated in the first place. Many excellent anglers *do* pretreat their patterns, I found it wasn’t worth it to me. Ralph Ralph Cutter, California School of Flyfishing. http://www.flyline.com