Question:

Hi, Sherry         I used to have one of those for a pet. I don’t remember off the top of my head what kind it is, but it is definitely both harmless and beneficial. They all have forked tongues; that’s what they ’smell’ with.         Most poisonous snakes in the US have a triangular head, with fat ‘cheeks.’ That’s where the venom glands are. The exception is the coral snake. There are only four poisonous breeds in the US: rattlesnake, copperhead, cottonmouth, and coral. The first three are adders and have the signature triangular heads and fat bodies. The coral snake is actually a kind of cobra, going by the venom family, and does not have the fat cheeks and thick body. Fortunately, they have short, fixed fangs that have difficulty penetrating human skin far enough to get enough poison into our system to do us much harm. Plus, they don’t inject venom like the adders. The fangs are grooved on the backside, and the venom trickles down the grooves. Copperheads also have short fangs. I’ve been told by someone who probably knows that no one has ever died from a copperhead bite, but I don’t know that for a fact.         Most wild snakes if cornered will put up a heck of a threat display to scare you away. Bull snakes will strike wildly at you, but without hitting you, and make a ferocious, loud hissing sound, but it’s mostly bluff. However, they will bite if they have to. Puff adders, properly called hog-nose snakes, will spread their necks like a cobra and make threatening gestures and false strikes. If you slap it, it will roll over, let its tongue hang out, and play dead. Cheers, Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

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Response:

  Unless you have a friend that puts one on your rear view mirror. Only a garder snake but it still scared me half to death.   Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard of snakes crawling into a car that was left with the door standing open, but it would be very rare. Modern cars are pretty well sealed so that the A/C works well. There aren’t any holes for them to crawl in through.

Response:

  Thanks for the laugh. I like that one.   Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A baby grass snake asked it’s mother, are we poisonous? It’s mother replied, no dear why do you ask? Oh good ‘cos I just bit my lip. — Adrian Isn’t it wonderful how cats can win friends and influence people without ever reading a book.

Response:

Hi, Bob         I grew up in North Texas and I’ve often heard cottonmouths called water moccasins, but they’re actually different species. Water moccasins get quite large, but they don’t have the triangular head and heavy body. Cottonmouths have a brilliant white mouth, and they hold it open with fangs outthrust when they’re about to attack.         Once while bowfishing I was wading through shallow water wearing thin canvas deck shoes. Just as I was stepping over a clump of grass, there was a flash of white right by my foot that caught my attention in a nanosecond. There was a large cottonmouth coiled to strike with mouth only a few inches from that scantily-clad foot. I stood there balanced on one foot while I drew the arrow and shot the snake through the mouth. The hard part was not hitting my foot as I was swaying from side to side trying to stay upright. It would have been useless trying to withdraw my foot as human reflexes are way too slow to avoid a snake strike. Cheers, Dave  Hey David,     Here in Texas we also have the water moccasin. Is that also considered a cottonmouth?

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Response:

The only thing I remember as far as color, if it’s red on black, poisonous.  If yellow meets black then you’re ok.

For Coral snakes, the phrase to remember is red on yellow will kill a fellow – so if the red stripes are next to yellow stripes, stay away.  If the red is next to black stripes, you are okay.  My theory was that I wasn’t going to hang around long enough to figure out what color was next to what color and the snake could just have the space.  But PLEASE don’t pick up red on yellow and think it is safe.  Altogether for posterity: Red on Yellow will kill a fellow. Cheers, Bridget – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, I haven’t proven that to myself yet. Snake is snake is snake to be avoided at all costs.  My daughter is slightly confused why I let her walk across our pinestraw ridden front yard alone in the winter but if it’s summer she catches immortal hell. I’ve snuck up on a more than a few copperheads that way. Grace I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

Response:

A baby grass snake asked it’s mother, are we poisonous? It’s mother replied, no dear why do you ask? Oh good ‘cos I just bit my lip. — Adrian Isn’t it wonderful how cats can win friends and influence people without ever reading a book.

Response:

Well, I’ve read of people encountering cobras in "guest house" bedrooms in India, in the days of the British Raj, so its probably theoretically possible – but why would they want to, unless your car is infested with rodents? Because they’re looking for me. Or Pam.

Snakes seem to think that I’m going to give them goodies or something. They don’t pay attention to all those lovely crunchy squirrels out in the back yard.  Forget about all those munchy turtles and frogs in the pond back there.  No, they have to see if they can find a way to come in the front door and visit me.  They must think I’m lonely.  To be honest, I’m surprised that I haven’t had any visit me here, they did all the time back in Idaho and Washington State. Pam S.  afraid that she just invited the little monsters in and wondering if a snow shovel will work well enough to whack them with.

Response:

 Hey David,     Here in Texas we also have the water moccasin. Is that also considered a cottonmouth? There is a creek here that I like to go fishing in. One day this water moccasin spent a good 30 minutes trying to get out of the water at me. But since the bank was so high and water level low he finally gave up. Scared the crap out of me since a snake (as well as heights) are the only things that really scare me. And I’m a pilot, I love to fly. Go figure. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Sherry         I used to have one of those for a pet. I don’t remember off the top of my head what kind it is, but it is definitely both harmless and beneficial. They all have forked tongues; that’s what they ’smell’ with.         Most poisonous snakes in the US have a triangular head, with fat ‘cheeks.’ That’s where the venom glands are. The exception is the coral snake. There are only four poisonous breeds in the US: rattlesnake, copperhead, cottonmouth, and coral. The first three are adders and have the signature triangular heads and fat bodies. The coral snake is actually a kind of cobra, going by the venom family, and does not have the fat cheeks and thick body. Fortunately, they have short, fixed fangs that have difficulty penetrating human skin far enough to get enough poison into our system to do us much harm. Plus, they don’t inject venom like the adders. The fangs are grooved on the backside, and the venom trickles down the grooves. Copperheads also have short fangs. I’ve been told by someone who probably knows that no one has ever died from a copperhead bite, but I don’t know that for a fact.         Most wild snakes if cornered will put up a heck of a threat display to scare you away. Bull snakes will strike wildly at you, but without hitting you, and make a ferocious, loud hissing sound, but it’s mostly bluff. However, they will bite if they have to. Puff adders, properly called hog-nose snakes, will spread their necks like a cobra and make threatening gestures and false strikes. If you slap it, it will roll over, let its tongue hang out, and play dead. Cheers, Dave

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like a plain old garden/garter snake to me. (Incidentally ALL snakes have forked tongues, I think.)  Are you SURE about the size?  I had never seen a snake until I encountered a garter snake at my aunt’s lake place in Minnesota (I was about then at the time).  I knew it was a garter snake, and couldn’t hurt me, but I ran away, anyhow. However, it couldn’t POSSIBLY have been as big as I remember it – they just don’t grow that long! I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

The distinctive feature of garter snakes is that they have stripes running lengthwise on the body, as opposed to around the body.  They are the only type of snake that I am aware of with lengthwise stripes. One of the garter snake’s defenses is that it can exude a stinky liquid if scared.  I found this out the hard way when I was on a camping trip as a teenager, and one of the other boys found a garter snake and started passing the snake around.  The substance had a strong musky smell, so it might be something that the snake would normally use to mark its territory. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQA/AwUBPPmrATMYPge5L34aEQJbygCg4SzKyTT7WW1eSqgZSrof/PI+QjkAoITD jEckAMjoUieiBugeocJhtB/b =PDBC —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "There must be, not a balance of power, but a community of power; not organized rivalries, but an organized common peace." Woodrow Wilson

Response:

Sounds like a plain old garden/garter snake to me. (Incidentally ALL snakes have forked tongues, I think.)  Are you SURE about the size?  I had never seen a snake until I encountered a garter snake at my aunt’s lake place in Minnesota (I was about then at the time).  I knew it was a garter snake, and couldn’t hurt me, but I ran away, anyhow. However, it couldn’t POSSIBLY have been as big as I remember it – they just don’t grow that long! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

Response:

somewhere just waiting to cross my path. I’ve even thought up a new phobia. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car?

Well, I’ve read of people encountering cobras in "guest house" bedrooms in India, in the days of the British Raj, so its probably theoretically possible – but why would they want to, unless your car is infested with rodents?  Believe it or not, snakes don’t go out of their way to annoy/frighten humans – either they’re looking for something to eat (usually live rodents) or water (if it’s a dry season and they can’t find it outdoors).  Even most poisonous snakes won’t attack unless they feel threatened, and even then, they’d rather just slither off, unless their retreat is blocked.

Response:

I’m trying, I really am. Sherry

You really have my sympathy Sherry. By living next to a fairly nice sized pond, we’ve always been victims of those surprise showings. (I guess it’s a pond, kinda odd when I hear Dave Y talk about his 5 foot pond. It’s not a lake, nor is it a pond like he and Victor have…) The last time, the very last time I have ever crawled into my parents swimming pool and spend a half day drifting about luxuriously soaking up sunshine was a couple days before my sister popped up from underneath the water just in time to see a snake slide into the opposite side of the pool.  A few days later, Dad pulled a dead one out of the filter after it got sucked through somehow. Or maybe it slide in through the hole on the coverplate. Who knows.  Suffice to say, it ended my snoozing days poolside *grin* I’m a walking paranoid basketcase outside during the summer. Moreso with a child than I ever have in the past. If the temps are right, I am much more relaxed with her playing outside without any hovering. Grace

Response:

Sounds like a plain old garden/garter snake to me. (Incidentally ALL snakes have forked tongues, I think.)  Are you SURE about the size?  I had never seen a snake until I encountered a garter snake at my aunt’s lake place in Minnesota (I was about then at the time).  I knew it was a garter snake, and couldn’t hurt me, but I ran away, anyhow. However, it couldn’t POSSIBLY have been as big as I remember it – they just don’t grow that long!

No, it wasn’t a garter snake. Garter snakes around here aren’t much bigger than a pencil. This was was definitely that long. But skinny, like a garter snake. I need a snake-ID website. Except I don’t want to look at the pictures. Sherry

Response:

somewhere just waiting to cross my path. I’ve even thought up a new phobia. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Well, I’ve read of people encountering cobras in "guest house" bedrooms in India, in the days of the British Raj, so its probably theoretically possible – but why would they want to, unless your car is infested with rodents?

Because they’re looking for me. Or Pam. Sherry

Response:

We live next to my parents, my parents have a two acre pond I’ve mentioned in the past. We’ve seen our share of copperheads and thankfully the only cottonmouths we’ve noticed have been right there at water’s edge. She doesn’t visit the pond much. *sheepish grin* Shoes? What are shoes Dave? We’re southern girls and this is the good old summertime. But I’ll keep that in mind, when she’s outside playing all day during the weekends, I’m going to make sure she has shoes from now on. Grace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Grace Snakes are deaf, but they have keen senses in their belly scales that can pick up even slight vibrations. If you and your daughter wear hard-soled shoes in the summer, you are less likely to sneak up on them.

Response:

Sherry, you mentioned seeing a snake you’ve never seen before.  Around here, in Louisiana, this time of year we see three times as many snakes as we normally do. Don’t be surprised if you see another. It’s always been my guess it’s a nestmate. Some days during the first few weeks of summer we can find three or four smallish snakes in one day when mowing the lawn. Only lasts for a little while though and then it’s back to the occassional view from a distance. Grace

I’m trying, I really am. We built this house  in 1982, and moved away years later. It was empty for many years before we moved back in 1999. When we firstt moved back, the snakes were awful. They were everywhere–our outbuilding rafters were dangling with skins. I think, being empty, the snakes took over but now that there’s activity around the house, we see fewer and fewer every year. I know they really don’t want to be around people. I don’t want them killed at all. I just SO hate being startled by them. Another critter that seems in big supply is terrapins, but they’re kinda cute. Sherry

Response:

No. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Sherry — Wanted: Man to assemble nuclear fissionable isotopes, molecular reactivity counters, and three-phase cyclotronic uranium photosynthesizers. No experience necessary.

I take it that’s a no? Does this mean I don’t have to stuff my pants legs down into my socks so the baby bullsnakes can’t crawl up my pants leg while I’m driving down the road? Sherry

Response:

I have heard of snakes crawling into a car that was left with the door standing open, but it would be very rare. Modern cars are pretty well sealed so that the A/C works well. There aren’t any holes for them to crawl in through. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Sherry — Wanted: Man to assemble nuclear fissionable isotopes, molecular reactivity counters, and three-phase cyclotronic uranium photosynthesizers. No experience necessary. I take it that’s a no? Does this mean I don’t have to stuff my pants legs down into my socks so the baby bullsnakes can’t crawl up my pants leg while I’m driving down the road? Sherry

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Response:

Hi, Grace         You’re thinking of the old poem that starts, "Black on yellow, kill a fellow." That’s the coral snake. "Red on black, friend of Jack," refers to other similarly marked snakes called milk snakes or banded king snakes. They’re harmless.         Snakes are deaf, but they have keen senses in their belly scales that can pick up even slight vibrations. If you and your daughter wear hard-soled shoes in the summer, you are less likely to sneak up on them. They’ll feel you approaching and flee or hide.         The only venomous snake you have to wary of is the cottonmouth. They are both territorial and aggressive. They don’t bluff; when they strike they mean business, and if you invade their territory, they will attack without provocation. Plus, the way they hunt is to climb trees and wait on overhanging branches for prey to pass beneath. A large number of cottonmouth bites to humans is on the face or head. Cheers, Dave I think it’s true that the heads are shaped differently. At least around here, the cottonmouths/copperheads have pointed triangle shaped heads and the king snake/rat snakes have a rounded head. The only thing I remember as far as color, if it’s red on black, poisonous.  If yellow meets black then you’re ok.  However, I haven’t proven that to myself yet. Snake is snake is snake to be avoided at all costs.  My daughter is slightly confused why I let her walk across our pinestraw ridden front yard alone in the winter but if it’s summer she catches immortal hell. I’ve snuck up on a more than a few copperheads that way. Grace

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Response:

 Copperheads also have short fangs. I’ve been told by someone who probably knows that no one has ever died from a copperhead bite, but I don’t know that for a fact.

For what it’s worth Dave, the local paper just had a write up about snake venoms.  We have a very very short supply of copperhead antivenom and a very very large supply of copperheads.  Doesn’t take much logic to figure out it’s not something we need a great deal of Sherry, you mentioned seeing a snake you’ve never seen before.  Around here, in Louisiana, this time of year we see three times as many snakes as we normally do. Don’t be surprised if you see another. It’s always been my guess it’s a nestmate. Some days during the first few weeks of summer we can find three or four smallish snakes in one day when mowing the lawn. Only lasts for a little while though and then it’s back to the occassional view from a distance. Grace

Response:

No. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Sherry

– Wanted: Man to assemble nuclear fissionable isotopes, molecular reactivity counters, and three-phase cyclotronic uranium photosynthesizers. No experience necessary.

Response:

I think it’s true that the heads are shaped differently. At least around here, the cottonmouths/copperheads have pointed triangle shaped heads and the king snake/rat snakes have a rounded head. The only thing I remember as far as color, if it’s red on black, poisonous.  If yellow meets black then you’re ok.  However, I haven’t proven that to myself yet. Snake is snake is snake to be avoided at all costs.  My daughter is slightly confused why I let her walk across our pinestraw ridden front yard alone in the winter but if it’s summer she catches immortal hell. I’ve snuck up on a more than a few copperheads that way. Grace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

Response:

I think it’s true that the heads are shaped differently. At least around here, the cottonmouths/copperheads have pointed triangle shaped heads and the king snake/rat snakes have a rounded head.

Thanks, Grace. That was what I’ve heard, but I couldn’t remember which was which. Apologies to everyone for the off-topic stuff but this is starting to freak me out just a little.. I was fine as long as I thought they were all bullsnakes but this one I don’t know. And I’m sure it’s not some orphan, single, unmarried snake. I know it has friends and relatives out there somewhere just waiting to cross my path. I’ve even thought up a new phobia. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Sherry Sherry

Response:

Not sure, but they can weasel in to your house. Mom walked through the kitchen one morning, and there she lay. A huge mama of a copperhead… right in front of our refrigerator.  Not sure how we determined they got through the dryer vent… Or if I’m remembering wrong. Grace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think it’s true that the heads are shaped differently. At least around here, the cottonmouths/copperheads have pointed triangle shaped heads and the king snake/rat snakes have a rounded head. Thanks, Grace. That was what I’ve heard, but I couldn’t remember which was which. Apologies to everyone for the off-topic stuff but this is starting to freak me out just a little.. I was fine as long as I thought they were all bullsnakes but this one I don’t know. And I’m sure it’s not some orphan, single, unmarried snake. I know it has friends and relatives out there somewhere just waiting to cross my path. I’ve even thought up a new phobia. Can they get under the car, and get up in through the bottom, and end up inside the car? Sherry Sherry

Response:

I have question for you. Since the recent snaketalk, I had a little encounter this after noon with a different-looking snake. I was getting ready to leave, and about to open the glass door there was a snake, like trying to crawl up the glass. He was dark, dark brown almost black  with a bright yellow belly. He was very skinny but long, at least 2.5-3 feet. He definitely had a forked tongue cause he was sticking it out at me. So I decided I didn’t need to go anywhere after all. So I waited. And waited. And waited. And finally went out the back door. Does that description sound familiar at all to you? I hate to keep asking. Also, is it true you can tell by the shape of their heads whether they’re poisonous or not? DH is at work. I hate to call him ’cause I know what he’d say, "It’s more scared of you than you are of it, blah blah blah.” I think that’s debatable. Sherry

Response:

Question:

Can anyone tell me about fishing oportunities on Whidbey Island in Washington state? My daughter is moving up there in September, and when I visit I’d like to do some fly fishing. I realize there are not any steams on the Island, but how about Sea run Cutts??

Response:

There is a group www.waflyfishers.com Get on the mailing list and they send fishing reports and you can ask questions etc. I am just guessing but I would say about 80% of the salmon that go into Puget Sound go past Whidby Island and the Salmon fishing is just heating up. September and October are good months also. HTH Dave —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me about fishing oportunities on Whidbey Island in Washington state? My daughter is moving up there in September, and when I visit I’d like to do some fly fishing. I realize there are not any steams on the Island, but how about Sea run Cutts??

Response:

Can anyone tell me about fishing oportunities on Whidbey Island in Washington state? My daughter is moving up there in September, and when I visit I’d like to do some fly fishing. I realize there are not any steams on the Island, but how about Sea run Cutts??

Sea-run cutts and steelhead usually can be found along the southern and eastern shore of the island.   If you are going to be a fairly frequent visitor, you should consider getting a float tube and leaving it there.  Pass Lake, just east of Deception Pass (up at the north end of the island) has excellent fishing, mainly by float tube or non-motorized boat. At certain times of year (mostly the Fall), it also would be well worth the drive to the Stilliguamish River (plenty of cutts in the Fall).  The Stilly is between Everett and Mt. Vernon on the mainland.  You can get there either by driving north across the Deception Pass bridge, and then into Mt. Vernon and south to the river or you can drive to the south end of the island (to Clinton), take the ferry, then drive north to the river (the former route takes less time).

Response:

The best place I found for Sea-Runs on the north end of the Island was by the old ice house on the NAS Whidbey Sea Plane base (Which is an open base so access is not a problem). Fish flashy flies on a falling tide on the gravel banks which can easily be done from shore. Pass lake is good and the best fishing is usually Damsels and Chironomids, although it’s tough to go wrong with the bugger family. On Anacortes as well is Whistle Lake up under Mt Erie. It’s an uphill walk in of about a mile but very remote feeling and a mixed fishery of warm and cold water species. Don’t leave anything in your car that you expect to be there when you get back. fair warning from experience. Not a whole lot on the south end of the isalnd that I was aware of but since I lived in Anacortes it wasn’t really worth the trip. If you head up Highway 20 towards Concrete there are numerous small streams but please treat the fish with care as many you catch will not be trout but immature Steelies. I do recommend the milkshakes at the place with the fiberglass cow out in front of it, particularly the Boysenberry. I of course, am deeply envious I would love to be back out there. Cheers, Allen Epps Catonsville MD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone tell me about fishing oportunities on Whidbey Island in Washington state? My daughter is moving up there in September, and when I visit I’d like to do some fly fishing. I realize there are not any steams on the Island, but how about Sea run Cutts?? Sea-run cutts and steelhead usually can be found along the southern and eastern shore of the island. If you are going to be a fairly frequent visitor, you should consider getting a float tube and leaving it there.  Pass Lake, just east of Deception Pass (up at the north end of the island) has excellent fishing, mainly by float tube or non-motorized boat. At certain times of year (mostly the Fall), it also would be well worth the drive to the Stilliguamish River (plenty of cutts in the Fall).  The Stilly is between Everett and Mt. Vernon on the mainland.  You can get there either by driving north across the Deception Pass bridge, and then into Mt. Vernon and south to the river or you can drive to the south end of the island (to Clinton), take the ferry, then drive north to the river (the former route takes less time).

Response:

Question:

   I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

It depends upon how big the river is. If it’s pretty big, try to go to the opposite side of the water. If it’s small, I’d hold upstream a little and actually ask the fisherman. No spot on the river will actually be a good one for you, but some might be better than others. I’m doing most of my fishing on an urban reservoir now. The jetskiers and water skiers are becoming something of a problem. It’s illegal to operate one fast enough to create a wake within 150′ of a shore fisherman, but a number of them don’t seem to care. Maybe I should tuck my coupon book into my tackle box when I’m fishing. "No, sir, I wasn’t goofing off. I was conducting a stakeout for unsafe boating practices!" And I’m soooo sure he’d buy that. You spam my account, I nuke your ass. Simple enough.

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I myself have been thinking of buying a canoe for fishing those waters where access is not very good and the waters too small for my jon boat. As far as having a canoe or kayak pass over the fish, and then waiting for them to recover, I’m sure the recovery period is a lot less than having a Bayliner with a couple of jerks on skis, or a couple of PWC (jet-skis) put your fish down. Some of the lakes I fish are so tore up from these inconsiderate morons, that the weeds are floating for several hours or days after a busy weekend. I could be fishing in a small bay and the idiots will have a whole lake to ski on, and for some reason they just have to find their way into that bay I’m fishing to scare the fish. No wonder I think of bringing the Ruger  with me when I fish. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.  While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.  Greg.

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And why clip off the fly?? Some of those inconsiderate jerks would look nice with a royal wolff for and earring… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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Couldn’t have said it better myownself.  <g PC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stay as far away as possible Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

– Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank.

Now that the State no longer stocks catchables in streams and rivers, you don’t still use Powerbait, do you? From what I’ve seen, it’s not very effective for streambred fish. Willi

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Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Stay as far away as possible – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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I think if they’d just show their tits it would solve a lot or problems. — The Halfordian Golfer

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 While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

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(copied from above) Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Just showing you a reasonable, EFFECTIVE response. And if you can’t find the humor in what I posted… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

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I’m with you on this one. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

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Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket.

Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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These two rules I agree with 1,000,000,000,000 % ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

                               (snip – snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home.

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Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

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I prefer to pass farther away (I paddle mostly where bait casters are), but if that line is going to put me in a bad current or into a power boat lane, I’ll just apologize and go by the fisherman.  As a fisherperson myself, I don’t worry too much about spooking the fish. I have observed them while fishing in very clear waters, while swimming, and while just siting around.  Unless there’s a real overabundance of fishermen, in which case the paddlers have little to do with it, they will spook, but will be back in 5 to 10 minutes.   I’ve tried to spook some wild (for many decades of generations.  No stocking done in at least 20 years, maybe more like 40) trout in a fairly heavily fished stream at one of the most popular pools (It was a late Sunday afternoon and I was the only one there, btw.).  Only way I’ve found it can be done is to stand up and skyline yourself.  Noise? No problem. Vibrations on the bank?  No problem.  Swinging your arms around?  Flailing your lure wildly?  No problem.  Let them see you standing up, even a child standing up, and they’re gone.  For as long as their tiny brains can remember danger versus food.  About 5 to 10 minutes on average.  Bream and Walleye and Pike vary.  Bream are about 5 minutes, Walleye and Pike about 15.  I have no clue on Bass.  Bass tend to be under cover and hard to watch, even in very clear water. Carp and Suckers are about 5 to 10.   Now if you’re going down a popular paddling river and there’s a canoe passing the fisherman every 10 to 20 minutes or less, yes, it’ll be bad for him.  Not earth shaking where I am as I tend to fish and paddle in MN and WI, where there are lots of places to do both or either.  The very few relatively crowded trout rivers I’ve gone on do not have paddlers (well, I did once see some tourons risking hypothermia in the evening in a rubber raft.  That water is cold* and they had no warm or dry gear along.).  If, however, I went to the Montana mountain streams to trout fish, I’d be a bit bummed to have some wild paddling action going on all over the river.   But if I were on one of the kayaking rivers out East (Natuhala? Something like that) I’d be checking for dam releases and going somewhere else when there were some, because it’d be nothing but ‘yaks and rafts and inflatables all day long.  I’d rather not fish than spend my day getting pissed off.  Then again, I tend to drive the speed limit or under and stay in the right hand lane, just to preserve my temper. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Somebody else has already pointed out, we don’t "share" the water with kayakers – they have it – we leave. As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.   Rule #1 – go behind the angler – the fish are in front of him. Rule #2 – go somewhere else.  I’m not being facetious.  Anglers are constrained by a large number of factors, fishing regulations, private property, water conditions, etc.  OTOH, a kayaker can go anywhere there’s enough water to float his boat.  Don’t float prime fishing water during the best part of the fishing season.  There’s plenty of other water for you to use. Rule #3 – Learn to control your boat.  The dickhead that ran into me could’ve broken my leg. Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Ken, Now it’s bothering me.  I know that I’ve heard or read your name before.  Do you post elsewhere? Thanks, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug Hall Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

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Doug Hall

Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

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in my part of the world,(SW Va.)there are many float fishermen. When floating and fishing should the boat give right of way to the wading fisherman? I think so…the float fisherman will cover a helluva lot more water than the one wading. It rarely happens though. I too have had jerks come way to close to me throwing them damn rackety ass buzz baits. Makes for some well placed false casts, if you know what I mean. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so  as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

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Michael, Lets see, if you only go down the river between the hours of 8:30 to 9:15 a.m.  and then we’ll allow you another 12 minutes in the afternoon, unless there’s a hatch going on.  Other than that, stay off our rivers, because flyfishing is the ONLY acceptable use for all rivers:).  No, but really, just the fact that you are trying to be polite and a simple "excuse me" or any normal courtesy should do.  Just like passing someone in a small hallway.  I’m sure that there will be those who feel that they have exclusive right to the river (and I’m also sure that I will hear from them) but even flyfisherman have to share the river.  Maybe we should be apologizing for blocking the whole damn river with our casting?  I think that some people should take their sports a little less serious.  It’s supposed to be about fun, and if a fish gets put down occasionally, oh well. It’s happened to me more than a few times. I got over it and so will they. Thanks for asking. Doug Hall

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

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Couldn’t have said it better myself ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

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Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

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Question:

So before you spend big $$s on tying technique books, ‘a kit’, materials you don’t know, vises, new gizmos, threads, hooks, gear, etc. contact me. There’s NO charge, NO fee. Just sound FREE advice from someone who has no affiliation to any manufacturer, catalog company, fly shop or publisher. And, if I can’t answer your question, I’ll say so!

Allan, that’s extremely nice of you and I assume that most people will take you at your word. Don’t be suprised, though, if a few people are skeptical because (1) your subject line is in all capital letters, (2) unless I’m mistaken, you haven’t posted much if at all on this newsgroup in the past, and (3) the phraseology of your post sounds a bit like one of those "too good to be true" sales pitches. Unfortunately, the combination of these three things gives your post the flavor of SPAM. I hope that’s not the case. One litmus test of whether or not someone has solely commercial interests in participating in this newsgroup is a simple examination of his or her posting habits. That said, I hope you’ll make a habit of sharing your fly tying insight with us. So here’s your first question… I’ve considered starting fly tying but can never quite justify it in my mind since I’m not sure it’s something I would enjoy. Here’s what I’d probably tie: parachute Adams, EHC, very small pheasant tail nymphs with and without bead, orange and yellow stimulators, foam beetles, yellow humpies, winged red ants, black gnats, tiny cream midges, even tinier griffiths gnats, and assorted woolly buggers. Is there one vise I can buy that will allow me to tie these flies? How much would I have to spend on supplies and materials to be able to tie these flies? –Steve

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This group appears only to be interested in advice coupled with at least a modicum of bullshit. So basically, no bullshit, no dice. The group exists for exchanging information ( and bullshit), so that everybody can participate. What is the point of going to e-mail ? If ROFF can not answer your questions, we will do it anyway. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s..

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<< So here’s your first question… I’ve considered starting fly tying but can never quite justify it in my mind since I’m not sure it’s something I would enjoy. Here’s what I’d probably tie: parachute Adams, EHC, very small pheasant tail nymphs with and without bead, orange and yellow stimulators, foam beetles, yellow humpies, winged red ants, black gnats, tiny cream midges, even tinier griffiths gnats, and assorted woolly buggers. Is there one vise I can buy that will allow me to tie these flies? How much would I have to spend on supplies and materials to be able to tie these flies? –Steve    Very nice.  And can he field strip an M50, blindfolded? GKT

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s..

        great to have you back, connelly…but there’s no need for that false name and addy! wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s..    great to have you back, connelly…but there’s no need for that false name and addy! wayno

<SPLORK!

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s..

Should it be legal to patent or trademark a pattern ? Thanks man, — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s.. Should it be legal to patent or trademark a pattern ?

I don’t see why not. Might be hard to enforce, though. If you determine the genetic sequence of a natrual insect you can patent it under fairly broad conditions. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Allan,    Your offer is appreciated by the members of ROFF, and are you also willing to share the price of your flies? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s.. After 40 years of fly tying (probably over 50,000 flies) mostly for trout up here in the n.e. (Catskills), fly fishing and reading all that I can get my hands on I think I’ve learned some things that may help you find solutions to your fly tying and maybe fly fishing problems. So before you spend big $$s on tying technique books, ‘a kit’, materials you don’t know, vises, new gizmos, threads, hooks, gear, etc. contact me. There’s NO charge, NO fee. Just sound FREE advice from someone who has no affiliation to any manufacturer, catalog company, fly shop or publisher. And, if I can’t answer your question, I’ll say so! Tight Wraps Allan

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s..

Without ANY b.s. ? Boy, are you ever in the wrong newsgroup. Just kiddin’ Allan, but it would be more appropriate to just chime in here on the newsgroup for all to read when you have something to contribute rather than popping in here unannounced and soliciting private email. — Ken Fortenberry

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s.. After 40 years of fly tying (probably over 50,000 flies) mostly for trout up here in the n.e. (Catskills), fly fishing and reading all that I can get my hands on I think I’ve learned some things that may help you find solutions to your fly tying and maybe fly fishing problems. So before you spend big $$s on tying technique books, ‘a kit’, materials you don’t know, vises, new gizmos, threads, hooks, gear, etc. contact me. There’s NO charge, NO fee. Just sound FREE advice from someone who has no affiliation to any manufacturer, catalog company, fly shop or publisher. And, if I can’t answer your question, I’ll say so! Tight Wraps Allan

Thanks Allan, I have a question or two….. questions that concern legitimacy. To the best of my recollection, this is your first message to this august body. Hence, my natural-borne skepticism. Are questions to be posted here at ROFF where you will answer them here publically at ROFF? Or do you prefer that questions be sent to you via e-mail? If the latter, what is your privacy policy concerning the security of e-mail addresses of questionaires? Since you mentioned that you had no affilition with fly shops, etc., but failed to mention that you had *no* affiliation with internet marketeers, I ask these hard questions not to dissuade your altruism, but to clarify your position concerning the privacy of ROFFians who visit this newsgroup, and who, unwittingly, may fall prey to the tentacles of ever-present address collectors who share or sell their lists to spammers. My questions are not posed nor meant to demean your knowledge and your apparent willingness to share that knowledge. That is commendable. *But*, please excuse my skepticism…. we’ve seen these types of posts before. –Walt — Ezflyfish.com: http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://users.boone.net/wgw/brbg.html

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Do you have a fly tying question?  I don’t have all the answers but, what I do know, I’m willing to share without any b.s.. After 40 years of fly tying (probably over 50,000 flies) mostly for trout up here in the n.e. (Catskills), fly fishing and reading all that I can get my hands on I think I’ve learned some things that may help you find solutions to your fly tying and maybe fly fishing problems. So before you spend big $$s on tying technique books, ‘a kit’, materials you don’t know, vises, new gizmos, threads, hooks, gear, etc. contact me. There’s NO charge, NO fee. Just sound FREE advice from someone who has no affiliation to any manufacturer, catalog company, fly shop or publisher. And, if I can’t answer your question, I’ll say so! Tight Wraps Allan

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Question:

Bruce asked: <<Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Orvis sells ‘em, I think.

Response:

Bruce asked: <<Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Orvis sells ‘em, I think.

Yep, check out http://www.orvis.com/store/sub_frame.asp?cat_id=25. — Charlie…

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Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ?

Cabela’s sells small size neoprenes.   They fit my 9-yr. old pretty well. Joe F.

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Go to Cabelas.  They have an item called "CABELA’S YOUTH STOCKINGFOOT 3MM NEOPRENE WADERS." You will probably want the medium size.  It correlates to a size 10-12 in boys.  Which is normally what an eight year old boy will ware.  They are a good buy at $49.95, item # IK-81-0968. http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+EwwFqcgwx-EPPWKK8xFqqkQqF… PPWKK8EHEqEEmFmRnFqtkQ+vXgAFqtiwmnG5czmwwwwMzmwwwf/process.html?formname=Ca t alogDisplay&submit=displayPOD&PodID=IK209A Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

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try dan bailey’s sale going on. Rat

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Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

Hi Bruce, I would try the Cabelas or Orvis catalog. At our shop, we have carried them off and on for about 20 years with very little sales. Most people, I said most people, not all, don’t want to invest in something that they will grow out of in a year or two. Some other parents might think it is too dangerous to have their children out in moving water with waders on?

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chest straps, waist belt….proper technique and waders can save your life. neoprene types can be a life preserver….read up on tecnique.  or shall I say read on……others explain it better……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? My father bought my sone a set of hip waders from Orvis for my 8 year old & we both took up fly fishing last summer. I’ve had to dump him out (turn upside down to drain water out of boots after he either falls, or goes too deep) EVERY trip except for our last outing in September.  It was a VERY sucessful trip – I caught my first & he didn’t fall in! I’m still have mixed feeling about getting him a full set of waders – although he is very athletic & coordinated I could see him getting into trouble if he could go deeper.  The waders limit his range, but sort of form a safety limit too. OTOH – every time he dumps is a pain. Good luck & post where you find the best deal – I still haven’t made up MY mind of how we will go next year. Mark Klove

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ?

My father bought my sone a set of hip waders from Orvis for my 8 year old & we both took up fly fishing last summer.   I’ve had to dump him out (turn upside down to drain water out of boots after he either falls, or goes too deep) EVERY trip except for our last outing in September.  It was a VERY sucessful trip – I caught my first & he didn’t fall in! I’m still have mixed feeling about getting him a full set of waders – although he is very athletic & coordinated I could see him getting into trouble if he could go deeper.  The waders limit his range, but sort of form a safety limit too. OTOH – every time he dumps is a pain. Good luck & post where you find the best deal – I still haven’t made up MY mind of how we will go next year. Mark Klove

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Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

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Question:

Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

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Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea!

Talking to one’s parents and grandparents is always a good idea, IMO. — Charlie…

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says… Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

You are most certainly welcome. –Walt

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Well is there any here? All I seem to see is a bunch of intolerant wackos stating there political beliefs! "Why can’t we all just get along?" hehe I just subscribed to this group for fly fishing advice, but I think instead I will go talk to my dad and grandpa instead. Thanks for giving me the idea! Mike

OK. Just remember….in this group, as with most others, you get out of it what you put into it. I could point out the obvious, but I refrain. If you have a ligit question, post it, and you may be suprised at the quality of the answer. There again, life is full of

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Question:

Does anyone know anything about this club – like is it a sham or is it worthwhile?

Response:

Does anyone know anything about this club – like is it a sham or is it worthwhile?

Steve, NAFC is definitely worthwhile.  They are part of the No. Amer. Outdoor Group, which started as a Walleye fishing organization many years back. They have grown to approximately 600,000 members across No. America.  The cost of membership covers the magazine.  The magazine now covers all types of fishing from Alaska to central America.  In it you can field test products, trade information, trade fishing trips, have your photos published, receive a member recommended booklet of guides & lodges and have the opportunity to win some great gear and prizes.  Some of the prizes include a chance at one of thirty full size fiberglass reproduction mounts chosen by their staff in the annual Catch & Release contest which we co-sponsor. Additionally membership gets you discounts on many items and at many places.  We, for instance, offer 10% off the cost of a mount to members–that covers over one year of membership!!! Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts N. Ft. Myers, FL/Westbank, BC http://www.fintastic.com take off the 1 for E-mail

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I joined last year right after I started fishing. I thought that there was a major bias towards bass and pike over the trout and steelhead that I was interested in, and a major bias for gear fishing over fly fishing. Other than an occasional article by Gary Borger, I didn’t see that it offered me any great benefit. On the other hand, it was only $12. I didn’t renew, now I have $12 burning a hole in my pocket. Jeff Runner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know anything about this club – like is it a sham or is it worthwhile?

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Question:

<< An Orvis bobber. Peter

Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

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Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however.

I don’t think they make Orvis Jeeps anymore, but one of their catalogs had some D90’s in it so I should be in good shape<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << An Orvis bobber. Peter Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

—

Question:

A FF partner is visiting Switzerland for several weeks in Aug/Sep and he is wondering what FF opportunities and requirements exist for said same. Please E me or post. "The true angler is always content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

Response:

  A FF partner is visiting Switzerland for several weeks in Aug/Sep and he is   wondering what FF opportunities and requirements exist for said same. Please   E me or post.   "The true angler is always content to fish alone"   Brian Di Carlo If he’s going to the Geneva area I think the best bet is to go to the nearby French rivers (known to be the best in France) the ‘loue’, ‘doubs’, ‘ain’ and ‘bienne’  and catch trout and grayling. These are all within 2-3 hours drive from Geneva. Closer still is the Rhone river leaving lake Geneva in the middle of town.  It is not as famous for its fly fishing though. I don’t know the german part of Switzerland, but found a URL on the web. http://www.access.ch/whoiswho//zulauf8.html   If he’s going to the Geneva area, drop me an email and I’ll provide some addresses and phone numbers. Cheers,         Peter. —  Peter Sollander, CERN ST/MC/TCR  Tel: (+41) 22.767.8081          Fax: (+41) 22.767.8910        

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Question:

By chance, is there a FF FAQ. I just started FF this year and I’m really getting into it. In fact, the only flies that I used this year were ones that I tied myself. The problem is that I only had success with one type of fly, that being the basic hackle fly. I need to find a source of fly tying info, such as how to’s and different types of flies. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, I fish mostly for speckle trout, pike and bass, although I’ve only caught the specks on the fly Thanks, Greg.

Response:

Seems like the year is turning early here in CT. Already one of my favorite rivers, the Housatonic, is filling with drifting leaves. Its rapidly getting to the point where fishing is more like raking leaves with a single-tined rake. Did summer really slip away so quickly? Or is this just a case of getting a bit older? JL 8-Wt Editor

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Seems like the year is turning early here in CT. Already one of my favorite rivers, the Housatonic, is filling with drifting leaves. Its rapidly getting to the point where fishing is more like raking leaves with a single-tined rake. Did summer really slip away so quickly? Or is this just a case of getting a bit older?

The Aspens and Gambels Oaks turned early here in Colorado. Could it mean an early winter?  Could it mean lots of snow? Should I put away my fly-rod and get out my skis? — -Wayne Trzyna

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By chance, is there a FF FAQ. I just started FF this year and I’m really getting into it. In fact, the only flies that I used this year were ones that I tied myself. The problem is that I only had success with one type of fly, that being the basic hackle fly. I need to find a source of fly tying info, such as how to’s and different types of flies. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, I fish mostly for speckle trout, pike and bass, although I’ve only caught the specks on the fly Thanks, Greg.

I’m also interested in a FF FAQ, can anybody help me?

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