Question:

The biggest news is no news.   Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.   There’s still one bed available Thurs-Sat & one Fri-Sat.   Friday night is still arbitrarily selected as the BS/drinking/cigar/tying get-together at Malinda’s in Altmar.   Sorry, no raffle. I’m planning to have an FRS radio on me when I’m not at Malinda’s, so if you’re driving up or you’re near the river, try shouting for me on FRS ch.9 if you have one yourself.   Friday, I’m likely to be around the FFO stretch at Altmar or down at the Trestle Pool; but it’s way too soon to say. I’m getting together w/ fishing buddy on Thursday for lunch to compare fly boxes in time to fill perceived shortages.   If (big IF) I can get my shit together, I want to photograph one of every fly we have between us & post the photos on the website.   http://home.att.net/~fleischman/SalmonRiver.htm My present fly inventory includes: chenille egg patterns (various colors) on #10’s sparkle chenille eggs (various colors) on #8 3906 Purple Flash nymph version on 3906 #8  (awesome last year) Altmar Sunrise, #8 Comets, pink & orange on 3906B, #8 Lazer eggs (orange, pink, chartr.) A comet variety I’ve been messing with but looks great.   It’s an unweighted comet on a 3906 w/ short marabou tail, oval tinsel body, bucktail wing (w/ a few strands of krystal flash), & collar hackle.   I’ve tied ‘em in purple, pink, & chartreuse so far & I’m expecting great things (gotta do some orange, but don’t have the bucktail).   If they work & it hasn’t been done before, I’ll give it a name; but it’s too similar to a comet to be anything but a variety thereof. I think I’m forgetting something.   I’ll have to get my fly box out & see what else is in there.  I have heard at least one early report that black wooly buggers were slayin’ ‘em.   Is there any fish that doesn’t work for? A reminder of the dates in case anyone’s interested: October 17-20, Altmar, NY Joe F.

Response:

Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.

Upgrade that ‘maybe’ to ‘probable’.

Response:

Question:

Back legs extended, front claws out – Back Scratcher. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. Another cat person – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On its back legs up … magazine rack that doesn’t scuff the covers. Steve (Actually a cat person … especially Abyssinians)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, evidently Mr. Reid did, though it bears mentioning that Mr. Reid implies (at least) that he has no memory or knowledge of having said anything that would indicate that he did.  On the other hand, Mr. Reid would, we hope, certainly deny that he made any such denial, especially in light of the documentary record plainly demonstrating the utter absence of any such denial.  Meanwhile, Mr. Reid, having recently returned to the fold, is up to his old tricks vis a vis objectors objecting to objections, while simultaneously and vehemently objecting to the notion that he ever left in the first place.  The careful reader will, of course, not be fooled by any of the foregoing as it clear, plain, and uncategorically inarguable that that couldn’t possibly have happened given the time constraints and the relative implausibility of Mr. Reid’s simultaneous cohabitation in more than roughly three planes at any given moment.  Hope this clears things up. Hum? Wolfgang

Cool, I know drugs kicked in ’cause I totally grokked that.  BTW, am I in New Zealand or Maryland today? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

[gross humour snipped] Which begs the question, was it a case of mistaken identity or … Steve

Response:

[gross humour snipped] Which begs the question, was it a case of mistaken identity or … Steve

Being too drunk, high, stoned etc. to know what you were doing . . . Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, evidently Mr. Reid did, though it bears mentioning that Mr. Reid implies (at least) that he has no memory or knowledge of having said anything that would indicate that he did.  On the other hand, Mr. Reid would, we hope, certainly deny that he made any such denial, especially in light of the documentary record plainly demonstrating the utter absence of any such denial.  Meanwhile, Mr. Reid, having recently returned to the fold, is up to his old tricks vis a vis objectors objecting to objections, while simultaneously and vehemently objecting to the notion that he ever left in the first place.  The careful reader will, of course, not be fooled by any of the foregoing as it clear, plain, and uncategorically inarguable that that couldn’t possibly have happened given the time constraints and the relative implausibility of Mr. Reid’s simultaneous cohabitation in more than roughly three planes at any given moment.  Hope this clears things up.  Hum? Wolfgang who, becoming hopelessly confused anent who is likely to do how much damage to whom under which circumstances and when, is giving serious consideration to kicking his own ass this weekend and being done with it!    :(

You planning on any ice skating judging in the next little while? Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Hey Op, I’m in for c-note.  Does this mean YOU are coming to the Penn’s clave? Gonna make it to the presentation? john

Whether I make it to the Penn’s ‘Clave is a matter to be determined.  Still waitin’ to hear from Mr. Fortenberry.  ’Course he may never have seen my post on the subject, as he has me blocked and all, and in that case if I don’t hear back from him within two weeks of the ‘clave I will attend, come hell of high water. I will attend the presentation, as long as it doesn’t involve you and an out door shower! Op

Response:

A LIAR AND THOSE WHO MAKE THREATS CANNOT BE TRUSTED: You are known for your lies and that you cannot be trusted.  Even this message of yours must be reported to the authorities Mike Connor and all of this is of your doing. It is time Klaus does something positive about you because his trust in you has been violated as you have indeed violated Roff and many of its’ members. You must be stopped before you do something very, very stupid. It is time to post every negative thought, every negative deed, every name calling post you send to Roff.  Until you stop your insane conduct, every abuse you bestow upon the American Fly Fishing Scene will be reported until you stop. Do you understand this Mike Connor? George Gehrke "it’s time to police your pathetic conduct Connor"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I pledge $100.00 to Mike’s trip across the water, but only if he will spend his time at a ‘clave over here.  Any ‘clave will do, but wouldn’t it be nice if he made an appearance at the Penn’s ‘Clave! Mike, please don’t waste your time and energy on confronting an obviously deranged individual.  I honestly don’t think George can help himself.  I have no doubt that the rest of the folks pledging funds would rather see you in the flesh fishin’, than see you on the back pages of some local paper’s arrest report.  Do you realize how much satisfaction George would get from you being hauled off to an *American* jail, before you ever got to lay a finger on him? Anyway, hope to meet ya some day, at a ‘clave! Op  –eternal optimist– Well Op, that is very kind of you, and I appreciate the sentiment, but I don

Question:

rw wrote… How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?   ??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen.

The goggbly gook of the gizmo’s flux capacitor was fubared because of the do-hickey thingy malfunction due to an error of the whateveryacallit.   Thus Silver Creek has nothing to do with it? — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Montana, for sake of good order, is the number one fly fishing state in the Untied States and it services more fly fishermen than any other because it has classic waters most of which are in the Jellybean Park area that lure them all, like "The Fire Hole!" etc. All States have pay as you go fly fishing Jeffrey.  Take it from here. It costs money to fly fish America, no matter where you go.  Outdoor Recreation is for two kinds of outdoorsmen.  Those who pay their way and poachers.  There is no middle ground. George Gehrke The Leaf Will Fall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff. The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized … By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

Response:

How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  

??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen. Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  

It’s like when an organization like the Nature Conservancy saves and restores a fantastic spring creek and then people begrudge them a modest donation for fishing it. Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W.

It costs $25 a year to join. If you aren’t a member they request a $5/day donation to fish Silver Creek, but that’s VOLUNTARY. And you can just fish the excellent non-Conservancy water if it bothers you. No "appointments" are necessary in either case. Big time screw up. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

George Gehrke wrote… Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started.

Sorry George, but I am not buying this.  Perhaps you can provide the proof for you claim, but I searched google and came up with this: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X48B1164 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, rec.outdoors.fishing, alt.fishing http://makeashorterlink.com/?G4AB6264 The first mention I have found so far of a ROFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?L2BB2164 Mr Vinsel’s first suggestion of a "conclave" Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?M29B1364 The first  mention of "conclave" searched under the author "Mr G" regarding something other than a FFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George.

Good post, many agree. <g — Charlie…

Response:

How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.

The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized …

By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

Response:

Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.

heh heh  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week.

Oh fer cryin’ out loud

Response:

        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there.

Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water. Willi

Response:

I’m in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

Response:

Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water.

Wayno can probably find some decent postcards in Island Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started. Is your memory as long as your next step dear friend? sigh*! George Gehrke Mr. Conclave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Not to mention that it’s completely false. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s. I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Response:

Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.   George Gehrke "Who’s Boat Carries 90 GALLONS of fuel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Response:

Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  

I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Wyoming waters are mostly wind blown, far and few in between but nice.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  Oregon is a State of vast diversity as it Northern California up through the State of Washington.  Northern New Mexico is likewise rather restricted because of the large land grants but the San Juan is only a small window of what the main spur of the Rocky Mountain Chain has to offer away from main population areas.  But Colorado, and most anything on the WESTERN SIDE of the Continental Divide away from Denver is a mix that has variety beyond your wildest dreams if you’re willing to get away from the main roads.  Colorado is blessed with a perfect summer climate and her mountains bank enough snow to keep her trout streams balanced and cool though out the year.  A Conclave through Colorado down to the Delores River and the San Juan over a period of three to four weeks is a Conclave worth attending.   Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week. The other option is fish as you go.  Just travel along and stay by any river for as many days a caravan happens upon and everyone staying in a main commercial camp site with showers, etc. George Gehrke Winnebago Camping Bum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul Why don’t you make it a reality?

Good Point!  I just left Colorado after living in the state for 35 years and was thinking a clave would be a good reason to return this summer…   If people are interested, I might be willing to put something together. Paul

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

Why don’t you make it a reality? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

        you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

Response:

Question:

and hope that some of the flies that I tied..by no means the quality of the masters..yet put together with lots of hope and 8o thread would land me something that I could appreciate on a lure that made it decide to take mine instead of the naturals that abounded.

Hope, yes that’s the key drives so many of us to indulge in what would appear nothing short of madness to the uninitiated. learned that  a longtime ago when I was on my grandfathers knee and wondered why he let the "big ones" get away.

A connection to your past and for many of us as well.  My grandfather passed away this weekend and although we both loved to fish we never got to do it together.   Mu

Response:

It was gorgeous this past Sunday on the Bow River here in Calgary. Little or no breeze on the water and the wildlife was strolling or making whatever noises the particular creatures that strolled by make. I was content to enjoy the warmth and hope that some of the flies that I tied..by no means the quality of the masters..yet put together with lots of hope and 8o thread would land me something that I could appreciate on a lure that made it decide to take mine instead of the naturals that abounded.. small winged wonders I was amazed how many of them used me as their bloody landing post.. I felt like O’hare as then did their dances and such on my waders.. Then I got lucky.. copying a nymph from the folks here I landed a small rainbow on a flashback hare’s ear.. nothing to brag about but beauty is in the eye of the fisherman when you land it and then let it go.. I learned that  a longtime ago when I was on my grandfathers knee and wondered why he let the "big ones" get away.. I got to feeling pretty smug sitting on the bank and enjoying the catch of the day for me, when I spied an osprey.. gliding on the thermals and making life look pretty damned easy.. Suddenly he swung down to the river so fast at first I thought he might had died in flight.. and plucked a rainbow bigger than the one I had landed.. his was for a meal or a family one of the two.. but I was humbled by the fisherman who made a mockery of my meagre talent… then again.. he cant tie cripples as effectively as I so I figure we are even… Thanks for letting me ramble // this was melancholy at best but the day was great and the sights were better than the fishing so far.. hopefully both will continue to improve as my skills better with time Pierre

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It was gorgeous this past Sunday on the Bow River here in Calgary. Little or no breeze on the water and the wildlife was strolling or making whatever noises the particular creatures that strolled by make. I was content to enjoy the warmth and hope that some of the flies that I tied..by no means the quality of the masters..yet put together with lots of hope and 8o thread would land me something that I could appreciate on a lure that made it decide to take mine instead of the naturals that abounded.. small winged wonders I was amazed how many of them used me as their bloody landing post.. I felt like O’hare as then did their dances and such on my waders.. Then I got lucky.. copying a nymph from the folks here I landed a small rainbow on a flashback hare’s ear.. nothing to brag about but beauty is in the eye of the fisherman when you land it and then let it go.. I learned that  a longtime ago when I was on my grandfathers knee and wondered why he let the "big ones" get away.. I got to feeling pretty smug sitting on the bank and enjoying the catch of the day for me, when I spied an osprey.. gliding on the thermals and making life look pretty damned easy.. Suddenly he swung down to the river so fast at first I thought he might had died in flight.. and plucked a rainbow bigger than the one I had landed.. his was for a meal or a family one of the two.. but I was humbled by the fisherman who made a mockery of my meagre talent… then again.. he cant tie cripples as effectively as I so I figure we are even… Thanks for letting me ramble // this was melancholy at best but the day was great and the sights were better than the fishing so far.. hopefully both will continue to improve as my skills better with time Pierre

Thanks for the report Pierre.  Sounds like you caught more with your eye than with your fly.  Proves there’s a lot more to flyfishing than just catching. Pat K

Response:

Question:

The New Year is an occasion to separate our past from our future. Let’s gather what is best from our past and use it as a foundation to begin anew. Happy New Year ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

The New Year is an occasion to separate our past from our future. Let’s gather what is best from our past and use it as a foundation to begin anew. Happy New Year ! — Ken Fortenberry

yeah, yeah, yeah… if you think for one little second that this here post of yours is gonna save you a whuppin come may, you’re sadly mistaken pal. jeff, tom, wayno, PJ, and i got some special steel tipped wadin’ boots on order to urge you upstream  :) Happy New Year Everyone! Walt — Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com For Book & Print Auctions: http://www.amazon.com/seller/mariebooks Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.bibliofind.com/cgi-bin/texis.exe/s/search/dhome.html?id=33… P.O. Box 5112, Banner Elk, NC 28604

Response:

yeah, yeah, yeah… if you think for one little second that this here post of yours is gonna save you a whuppin come may, you’re sadly mistaken pal. jeff, tom, wayno, PJ, and i got some special steel tipped wadin’ boots on order to urge you upstream  :) Happy New Year Everyone! Walt

Not to worry Ken, if those NC hicks get a little nasty, just hop in the Mazda and you’ll be safe. Peter BTW, your toast had very appropo sentiments for ROFF.

Response:

The New Year is an occasion to separate our past from our future. Let’s gather what is best from our past and use it as a foundation to begin anew.

Wise words, Ken. Happy new year to you and to everyone on ROFF. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

if you think for one little second that this here post of yours is gonna save you a whuppin come may, you’re sadly mistaken pal. … Not to worry Ken, if those NC hicks get a little nasty, just hop in the Mazda and you’ll be safe.

On the one hand we’re talkin’ about an alleged ass whuppin’ by a bunch of geriatric rednecks that think walking to the fridge for a beer constitutes a good days hike and on the other we’re talking about near certain flaming death in a Canadian pick up driven by a certifiable lunatic with a Jeff Gordon delusion. No offense, Peter, but I’ll take my chances with the rednecks. Worst comes to worst I can always outrun ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

On the one hand we’re talkin’ about an alleged ass whuppin’ by a bunch of geriatric rednecks that think walking to the fridge for a beer constitutes a good days hike and on the other we’re talking about near certain flaming death in a Canadian pick up driven by a certifiable lunatic with a Jeff Gordon delusion. No offense, Peter, but I’ll take my chances with the rednecks. Worst comes to worst I can always outrun ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Oh, OK – wrong about the delusion though – pilot. Peter

Response:

um, ken…bring your runnin shoes in may.  i’ll be warmin up the truck and waitin… as a prelude to the new year, yesterday i hauled a whinin waldo down to the stream that i first plonked a fly upon (introduction was via james mcdonald roberts).  it is now designated C&R, fly fishing only. the walk down to the stream is about 30 minutes, back up is about 45, unless you’re draggin a wheezin waldo with you <G, then it’s an hour.  we both thought of you.  i know you will enjoy fishing it in may…it would also be a great place to camp overnight. an incredibly beautiful small stream holding only wild trout. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – if you think for one little second that this here post of yours is gonna save you a whuppin come may, you’re sadly mistaken pal. … Not to worry Ken, if those NC hicks get a little nasty, just hop in the Mazda and you’ll be safe. On the one hand we’re talkin’ about an alleged ass whuppin’ by a bunch of geriatric rednecks that think walking to the fridge for a beer constitutes a good days hike and on the other we’re talking about near certain flaming death in a Canadian pick up driven by a certifiable lunatic with a Jeff Gordon delusion. No offense, Peter, but I’ll take my chances with the rednecks. Worst comes to worst I can always outrun ‘em. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… i know you will enjoy fishing it in may…it would also be a great place to camp overnight. an incredibly beautiful small stream holding only wild trout.

Sounds fantastic. Waldo’s got us signed up to fish Wilson’s the first two days of Spring Fling but let’s plan on this later in the week. I’ve got everything two people need to be comfy streamside overnight except your sleeping bag. Waking up to watch the morning sun battle its way into the dark holler has got to be a hell of a lot better than waking up to the spectacle of Louie’s BVDs. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: Waking up to watch the morning sun battle its way into the dark holler has got to be a hell of a lot better than waking up to the spectacle of Louie’s BVDs.

LOL.  So loud that Henry came running down-stairs to see what the commotion was all about.   Not to worry my flat-lander former friend;  I will wear appropriate attire upon arising each morning from my gentle sleep.  <g Looking forward to seeing those Carolina reprobates in March, and you in May. Dave L.

Response:

Sounds fantastic. Waldo’s got us signed up to fish Wilson’s the first two days of Spring Fling but let’s plan on this later in the week. I’ve got everything two people need to be comfy streamside overnight except your sleeping bag. Waking up to watch the morning sun battle its way into the dark holler has got to be a hell of a lot better than waking up to the spectacle of Louie’s BVDs. — Ken Fortenberry

The N/T project better cut me some slack come else, I’m going to be all colours of green and bust a gut out of envy.  I think I’m feeling a serious flu coming on — in May. (truck’s already packed) Peter

Response:

Sounds fantastic. Waldo’s got us signed up to fish Wilson’s the first two days of Spring Fling but let’s plan on this later in the week.

We need reservations to fish around Boone? Geez, maybe I’ll go to Snowbird instead<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. I’d add to this:    4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

             5) A downlocking reelseat is earier to attach a reel to, if the butts down, of course.   Gary C. "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

Response:

… differences between up and downlocking reel seats …

Among those I know, the single biggest deciding factor was that the end-cap on down-locking seats had a tendency to break free (eg, the epoxy wouldn’t hold).  Long after they switched, they’d learn to highlite the advantages of up-locking. My own stats are ~40% of my downlocking end caps pop off within 3 years.  I usually retrieve the cap off the stream bottom (the reel too), severely scratch the inside of the cap, use a razor on the wood seat, and re-epoxy (avoid the 5 minute expoxies).  None of the repaired caps have since fallen off.     (——     (~~~~~~     (     (~~~~~~     (——                 ~ = roughed up interior walls of cap. use                     backside of a exacto razor tip.                 / = barb-like gouges into the wood reel seat.                     most reel seat wood is extremely hard, so                     cutting at an angle of 45 degrees to a depth                     of ~1/32" is all you’ll need. I personally prefer downlocking on trout rods, in part because I gain ~6" rod length in casting because my hand can grasp near the base of the cork. Thomas Gilg

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion.   On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up.   — Andrew Brunette

Response:

One other comment about uplocking reel seats.  I’ve found that I prefer them because when playing a large fish, it’s nice to have that extra extension (even though it’s small) should you put the reel against your chest.  I play larger steelhead and salmon that way using heavier rods…and that’s much of my fishing.  When I hook onto a good sized trout, I tend to revert to old habits every so often.  If you have an exposed rim, then it’s not a good idea to put it against your clothing.  So….that’s one other consideration but only relevant if you have my sometimes bad habit.  I’ve got trout rods that are both uplocking and downlocking….but I wouldn’t want my bigger rods to be downlocking. Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:    With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.    With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.    There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance. If you are using a cigar handle, I don’t think it matters too much.  If you are using a full or half wells handle, you want uplocking, so that the reel is as close to your hand as possible.  This improves the rod feel, in my less than humble opinion. On the cigar handle, I find that I slide my hand down to the reel, over the reel seat.  I use slip ring reel seats when I build these rods.  I don’t have any problem with them loosening up. — Andrew Brunette

from a usability (as opposed to construction of the rod) perspective: downlocked reels also seem to have a slightly clock pendulum effect – which makes the rod tip waver around a bit – on a light rod this matters a little more since you’ll be wanting to do delicate, accurate casting. hands do slide down to them too

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Rick Fletcher) writes:   To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could   describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical   reason for your preference.   —   "The scientist formerly known as Rick"   T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Don’t know the compositional difference, but the epoxy I use for rod building is much stronger than the 5 min stuff.  I believe the stuff is made by Flex-Coat, but I am not sure.  Anyway, I did some simple tests and the 5min ranked lowest among the 3 I tried cheers,    -tgades

If you’re looking for the strongest epoxies for a given application, you might  want to contact either Minnesota Mining (3M) Commercial Adhesives or ITW  adhesives of Danvers, MA. Both companies are listed in the Thomas Register and  3M has a full catalog listing there.

Response:

I’m sorry Metaphacts, but tell that to my shoulder after hours of casting with a tip heavy rod.  Static balancing the rod makes a big difference in sensitivity and in reducing fatigue. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point. Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it. Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30 feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15 feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy. All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly) than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always better, regardless of the reel seat. Cheers, gp

Response:

Hi all, Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

No Winstons in California???  I knew that state was weird. Just Kidding. Bob

: Hi all, : Out here in California we have no down locking reel seats to speaks of. : I guess most of the fly fishers out here prefer uplocks.

Response:

I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

Response:

THE REAL REASON FOR UPLOCKING REEL SEATS: (It’s got nothing to do with center of balance) OK, suppose you have a downlocking real seat.  You screw the locking band down tight.  This forces the reel seat down into the cap, which is attached to the reel seat… how? If it is an all-aluminum seat, it’s probably spot-welded. If you have a wooden insert, it’s probably epoxied on.  So one day you are out fishing, waist deep in a fast riffle.  You notice that your reel feels a little loose, so you tighten the locking band down a little tighter, and then the cap pops off and disappears downstream, never to be seen again.  You make a grab for your reel, but you are too slow and it plummets to the bottom (if you’re lucky; if your drag is set loose and the current is fast, the reel sails off downstream until all of the line and backing are peeled off.) This could happen to you.  (It happened to me…) The two morals of the story: 1.  Never buy another rod with a downlocking reel seat.  With an uplocking seat, the stress is on the threaded sleeve on the end of the reel seat, which at least has a larger glueing surface, so is less likely come adrift. 2.  Never leave the house without a roll of black electricians tape.  A few turns of black tape will hold your reel onto that broken reel seat until you can get it fixed.  In fact, you may find that the tape seems to hold the reel on more solidly than the reel seat did, and not bother to get it fixed. — Kevin Vang Dept. of Mathematics Minot State University Minot, ND 58707

Response:

: And to that I would add: : 3. Never buy a rod from someone who uses 5 minute epoxy to glue up a : reel seat. Geez Phil, what do you suggest?  Should we hold out for the 10 minute stuff or go all the way to 2 hours? To be serious, I’m interested in your reasons for rule 3.  If you could describe what works best, I might be able to make up some chemical reason for your preference. — "The scientist formerly known as Rick" T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.

Static balancing a rod/reel combo means nothing to the casting stroke. Ever.   . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.  

It’s a personal thing. The rod you describe is one I returned after fishing it.  Absolutely hated the inability to work tough situations (spring creek from 30  feet or less). The rod I chose instead is a dream with a 12ft leader and 15  feet of line out the tip, yet can still heave 70 feet with ease, and accuracy.  All with the same line size. That is a balanced rod. BTW, I have a 4 piece rod that is not tip heavy either. My point is that relative to the right rod choice for your casting style and  fishing needs, uplocking vs downlocking is trivial. When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph.

Interesting. I too hold the reel when nymphing with my short rod in a difficult  situation. But then my shortest rod is an 8′ 2 wt. Everything else is 9′. The real irony in this is that the stuff Orvis is doing in their Tridents is a  more sensible way to balance an overly tip heavy rod. Adding mass in the grip  at the hand balances the tip without the increased inertia of adding mass well  away from the pivot point. Of course, because the weight is close to the pivot  point, it will have to be greater than if you hung it out 6-8 inches behind  it. Choosing the material thay have to dampen rod vibrations may or may not be  a bonus, depending on how much of the input is damped out along with the  excessive vibration. Seems to me like the long way home so to speak. Better to spend a lot more time  picking the right blank (by casting finished rods w/ line, leader, and fly)  than to be so concerned with reel seats. The right fishing tool is always  better, regardless of the reel seat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers, gp

Response:

Downlocking reel seats hold the reel away from your hand and the centre of rotation of the rod while casting. This increases the momentum and makes it harder to stop the rod on the back and forward casting strokes. Uplocking reel seats move the mass the reel towards the centre of the palm and reduce the momentum. Making it easier to accelerate and deccelerate the rod during casting. Jon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why?

Response:

I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod.

That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as  close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel  available at the time.

Response:

 I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve got a different take on down- and up-locking reel seats. If you think of a pendulum, the reel rides farther back of your hand with a down-locking seat. This little 1/2-1" difference can help balance the rod a little more. There’s nothing worse than a top-heavy rod. That’s not balance.  A balanced outfit  will have a minimum amount of weight as close to the casting hand as possible. Now you know why Vince Marinaro loved the Orvis CFO. It was the lightest reel available at the time.

Response:

I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp

Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance.  It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load  the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between  the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper,  and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time,  the balance point you describe changes with every cast.  If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay  in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of  direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel,  light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick  what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just  that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very  good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel,  you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting,  stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that  doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences  expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might  want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

Response:

In fact I do get it, I was trying to simplify.  Obviously, the balance point chanes with the amount of line out of reel, as well as the line through guides, and yes I am refering to the static balance point.  . The point is some rods are tip heavier then others, If you don’t believe that, just go check some blanks at your local shop.  That does not make them necessarily ‘bad’ rods.  I have an rpl 490-4 that I love but is tip heavier then most.  Generally I find 4 piece rods to fall into this catagory quite often.   When nyphing, which is what I do alot with this rod, with line out , the balance point (down locking) is in a more desirable place then with the reel moved further up the blank (uplocking), which then shifts the balance point yet closer to the tip, making the rod less pleasing, more tiring to fish on a long 10 hr day.  Subtle, yet noticable. I suggest taping your reel (with line out and also with line on reel), to differenet positions at rear of blank to determine most comfortable balance point for you (static and kinetic).  then find a reel seat that places the reel roughly in that postition. After having said all that, the #1 reason I use downlocking seets is to squeeze an extra inch or two out of ’shorter’ rods, when I use them to nymph. Cheers, gp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the point being made is that in many cases you need a ‘heavier’ reel to balance the rod.  So when assembled, balance point is somewhere in top third of grip.  By using a downlocking seat, the reel is moved further back, facilitating the use of a lighter reel while still keeping balance point in the top third of the grip…get it? Cheers, gp Uh no. I don’t think you do get it. What you are speaking of is static balance. It is totally irrelevant. As soon as line is out and you are trying to load the rod, you have moved the balance point. Since the amount of weight between the reel and the tip vary with line weight, taper, place in the line taper, and even the amount of line you have off the reel at your feet at the time, the balance point you describe changes with every cast. If you want the best control of the rod, remove the reel and let the line lay in coils at  your feet. Cast with no reel at all. Start, stop, change of direction, and all manner of casting become more precise than with any reel, light or heavy. Adding weight only takes away from the precision, so just pick what you like. Tip heavy rods that you are trying to "balance" with a heavy reel  are just that, tip heavy. No matter whose name is on them, they’re probably not very good fishing tools. However, by  loading some of the newer technology rods with a very heavy reel, you can damp out some of the undesirable rod vibration that occur in starting, stopping, and changing direction. But a better idea might be to buy a rod that doesn’t require such damping in the first place. As for uplocking and downlocking, there have been a number of preferences expressed. I own them both.  Unless you are custom ordering a rod, you might want to choose the rod before you worry about which way the reel seat works.

Response:

The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel. Hope this helps. George B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I prefer uplocking.  When casting all day my hand tends to work its way down toward the reel.  Having the reel at the bottom of the grip stops my hand,  and the rod seems to balance better.   I have built a couple of rods using slip rings, but don’t recommend them.  I have had to fish my reel out of the water too often. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? Richard T. Whitney

Response:

The differences… 1) an uplocking reelseat puts the reel closer to your hand which is less    tiring (moment = force x length) IF you have a lighter, shorter rod 2) your hand is less likely to loosen the reelseat in an uplocking seat    (but brush is more likely to loosen it) 3) a downlocking reelseat is easier to install when building the rod    yourself…because uplocking reelseat require that you cut a "pocket"    into the cork grip for the "cap" (not sure if that is the correct    word for the stationary, formed band which holds the forward "foot"    of the reel.

I’d add to this:         4) A downlocking reelseat leaves less of a rod butt sticking out for your line to get tangled around.  HPH

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

i have an old rod with a down-locking reel seat.  i noticed when my grip was low the reel seat would loosen.  i haven’t had any problems with this on up-locking reel seats. if you are building your rod, i would recommend an up-locking reel seat, since you can do either. chris

Response:

I’m thinking of building a fly rod (my first), which would probably be a five weight trout rod. Could anyone please illuminate the differences between up and downlocking reel seats for such a rod? Is one easier to work with than the other? I’ve noticed that all the commerical rods seem to use uplocking reel seats. Does anyone know why? Thanks in advance.

Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

Hello, Many years ago, after I bought my first rod, an Orvis Far and Fine with downlocking reel seat, I read somewhere that uplocking reel seats are less vulnerable to loosening in use.  I have subsequently found by experience that this is true.  Evidently, gravity tends to load the locking ring of the uplocking seat thus helping it to stay locked, but it unloads the screw threads of downlocking seats. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I think you will find the comercial rods pretty well split betweenup locking and downlocking, but not many slide bands. Here are what I generally hear as to the advantages/disadvantages:         With uplocking you can get the line tangled around the rod butt easier.         With downlocking, your reel gets in the dirt if you put the rod butt on the ground.         There may be a better balance with your reel with one or the other. In general, I don’t think there is a big difference either way. Choose what looks and feels the best to you. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

Question:

I have a  book  by Henry Van Dyke, entitled " Fishermans Dream", 1906 model with gold trout on the cover. This book is in excellent conditon, what is it worth? and who would buy it? Thanks, Jerry

Response:

I have a  book  by Henry Van Dyke, entitled " Fishermans Dream", 1906 model with gold trout on the cover. This book is in excellent conditon, what is it worth? and who would buy it? Thanks, Jerry

Recheck the title. Sounds like you’re talking about one of the many editions of "Fishermans Luck" (1899) by that author- a $20-$25 (retail) item a few years back when I was into this sort of stuff.                                 Ray

Response:

Several fly fishing books for sale from my collection.  E-Mail me for a listing of books with prices. JWTrout

Response:

Question:

As far as catching grayling, it may make a difference where you will be fishing. I have fished the Alaska Peninsula for grayling several times.  In those waters I have used humpies, elk hair caddis (black body), and brown drake patterns with the most success.  All flies were tied on no. 12 hooks.  The guide I was with liked the irresistable. To a lesser extent, we have taken   grayling with a Royal Coachman and have had those fish hit a deer hair mouse while fishing for rainbows. Interestingly, almost all articles I have read mention using black gnats for grayling.  For all the times I have tried these flies, I have *never* caught a grayling with one.  Consequently, I have a bunch of these that don’t seem to have a use. Always hit it like you mean it, Steve  

Response:

Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

Response:

 Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for  them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this  year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

We have had great success with caddis patterns, particularly Elk Hair Caddis size 12 and 14. However, the Grayling need time to come up from the bottom so give the drift a chance. They will often take the dry as it goes under at the turn. Don’t be afraid to wake the fly in short retrieves back to you.

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Could someone recommend some patterns for arctic grayling?  I went out for them a couple of years ago and had a great time.  I want to go again this year and could use some advice on patterns and tactics.

They’re not really sophisticated, especially in Alaska, the Yukon or NWT. I had one take a #2 streamer meant for pike Use a fly you can see – for dries, try the Wulff series, Humpies, or the dry version of a black gnat, all in sizes 8-14. In lakes, they like to congregate where the wind accumulates surface scum – reefs (e.g. in Great Slave) are great. For streams, just think of them as a really dumb (but beautiful) trout. One key note – on dries, they tend to rise in a corkscrew spiral (perhaps their vision is poor). They sometimes miss the fly, and have to take a second try. Don’t strike too soon. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

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Tim, where do you fish Beaver Ck.? in the park or up outa Sourgrass? I would expect the water to be high right now. The Stanislaus at Sourgrass was pretty high and fast a couple weeks ago. As I remember the fish aren’t really big there. This time of the year, due to high, fast water fish close to the river bank. There are some nice holes outa Sourgrass and up the creek where the road crosses Beaver Ck. wish you luck, Bob

: Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there : last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot : of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any : sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. : TimFLYFISH : Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

The lower portion, near and in Lake Solano is a put and take fishery, heavily stocked.  Good fishing, good luck avoiding the worm drowners.  The upper portion, near Montecello dam is a blue ribbon wild trout fishery.  I have seen 30"+ browns rise for a bat!  (how to tie that one   Very difficult fishing, and often rather dangerous.  Swift current and bouldery bottom.   Your next step could be 5′ straight down off an underwater ledge.  Fish are heavily fished and very wary.  Prepare to get skunked.  Some very good FFers I know can only claim 1 fish in 10 years of fishing there, but it was a 26" brown.  Above the Montecello dam is a warm water lake, and bellow the lake solano dam gets dried to nothing in dry summers, so fish are scarce. Good luck, and whatever you do, don’t embarass yourself by trying to claim there were no fish there. Lenny Bloksberg . .

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Tim, I too wish you luck, I went up to the Monticello Dam area a couple of weeks after the March Monsters blew through here and had a hard time recognizing the area. There were HUGE landslides. Basically, there was no access to a badly overfished area. I tried clambering over new stream channels, the access bridge was GONE and so were the trails to the the base of the dam. I haven’t been back, I’ll look again after the Power Baiters are gone. John E.

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]I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, ]but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed ]some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this ]Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good ]place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of ]flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has ]to say about this creek. ]TimFLYFISH Tim, I believe the better flyfishing at Putah is from Nov-March, because that’s when the flows are lower, and they restrict fishing in the upper section to artificials, single barbless hook, C&R.  This time of year, you’re battling bait dunkers and the higher flows. Effective patterns I’ve heard of (in the winter) include PT nymphs or blue wing olive nymphs, size 18-22. A good friend (and reliable source) told me that he went in February or March, and that they had had some kind of disastorous mudslide in the upper section, just above the Highway 128 bridge.  He said you couldn’t even see some of the boulders in the river, because they were covered with a mud sludge.  They had construction crews with heavy equipment out there, trying to smooth the land where the slide had occurred. I hope it’s recovered somewhat since then.  Please keep us posted on how you did and the river conditions.  Thanks, Bill Uyeki

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I have heard that this creek can offer great fishing and is blue ribbon, but I have also heard that it is not worth looking at. CAn anyone shed some light on the creek for me, because I am planing to go up there this Sunday. Also if it is possible, maybe someone can direct me to a good place to start from in the morning, and give me an idea of what sort of flies I should bring along. I would really appreciate anything anyone has to say about this creek. TimFLYFISH

I ‘ve fished Putah for almost 20 years and its really gone downhill in the last 10 or so.  Erratic water flows, streamside erosion, overfishing have taken their toll.  Seams to me that there could be the potential for a blue ribbon fishery but it clearly ain’t one now. Garrick

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From what I have heard, I am glad that I didn’t end up going. A late night stoped the morning trip. I probably won’t on going there again if what you have said is true. Thank you for the info.

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Well 6/7/95, Mammoth fishing is still slow.  Crowley is near dead. 17-20" browns and even smaller rainbows on olive buggers with flash. I say forget Mammoth for now.  Air Temps in the 50S.  Still needs to warm up and water needs to clear.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

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Try fishing at Parking Lot #3; good pocket water, as well as large surface water.

I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

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I have seen the name Putah Creek in more than one location. Where is this one? Thanks, Michael Paine

It’s between the Bay Area and Sacramento.  Below Lake Berryessa.                  /                                                           John Woodling                 /                                                           Sacramento, CA                /                   "The lure of fishing is that it is the pursuit of that which is elusive, yet attainable……an endless series of occasions for hope"

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